Originally posted by duncan_922 Problem is that there's no honor in PVP anymore. Very few are the guild vs. guild wars. Most of the "hardcore"'s idea of PvP is ganking, PKing, gate camping, etc.. Most of the MMOs out there have a duel system where it can be one-on-one, but yet, you whine that the "Age of the Carebear has dawned upon us"... Why? Because most of the PvPers only engage on their version of PVP when they either outnumber their victim or they have superiority. I remember the good old days of UO where there were true wars between guild against guild. But then it degraded into constant ganking by lamers who wondered around looking for someone to kill and loot. So they had to split it up between Trammel and Felucca.Same is with every game today. I used to play SWG since it began, and I remember this particular guy who killed me while I was very new. I remember I told him that it was very lame of him, he being so strong while I was just a Weaponsmith looking for minerals wearing bone armor. He said: "An Imp is an Imp" and ran away laughing. So later I ran unto him on Bestine and I called a RL friend who was a Jedi (also Imp). My friend waived his glow stick around him and even challenged him to a duel. But I guess "An Imp is an Imp" didn't apply to Jedi because he just ran away.Now I recently started playing EVE. I want to be a miner, but I've been running courier missions to get money. So one of those missions took me to low sec space, and sure enough, there was a gate-camper there. I'm flying a little frigate while he has an Apocalypse. Under those odds, it would seem like a waste of a missile to even kill me, let alone pod me. What the hell did he have to gain? None of my modules would do him any good on such mighty ship? But sure enough, he blew up my ship and podded me. And now I'm screwed because by the time I have a ship tough enough to kill him, my kill rights would've ran out.So what I'm trying to say is that, the reason why the "Age of the Carebear has dawned on you" is because MOST (not all) of you PVPers are just bullies who won't get into a fight unless the balance is tipped on your favor. So I hope the Age of the Carebear is here to stay!
Point made.
I don't want to write this, and you don't want to read it. But now it's too late for both of us.
Originally posted by Hardin You talk about PvP honour... well tell me how much PvP honour do you see in the real world? When 95 year old granny is mugged by a gang of 6 youths, or when a global superpower invades a developing country? If you wanted to kick the shit out of some guy who insulted your mother would you wait till he had 5 mates with him or get him when he is on his own? Do people in the real world seek out 'balanced' fights. No they don't. Everyone always wants a tactical advantage because everyone always wants to win. EVE mirrors life.
Reply confirms.
I don't want to write this, and you don't want to read it. But now it's too late for both of us.
Originally posted by BurningPain FFA PVP - Kill anyone, anytime, anywhere - When a player dies they drop all items.
I laugh at these points.
Stop rambling on about being a hardcore PVPer ; you're just one of those greedy assholes who'd see a lowbie with a nice item, get a few friends to go with you, gank the poor guy and get all his stuff.
You won't know real PVP even if it hit you right on the head, kid. You only want to grief. Go play CS or something.
This is the main reason FFAPvP does not exist. Why is this topic still alive? Why don't people ever learn? Why do you insist on whining hours on end? I have read that UO was not killed by carebears, is was the other way around, of course now all the "hardcore" guys will throw a tidal wave at me, but 20,000 against 5 people average say UO wasn't the big grand-daddy many made it out to be.
Read that topic and understand, maybe then you will see and this topic can fizzle out.
I think it's the objective of your past self to make you cringe.
lol. different people like different types of games, and thats that. personally FFA PvP with no consequences for rpking is a no no. i like a faction vs. faction (or race vs. race) setup that rewards you for killing members of the opposing factions/races, and discourages killing of one's own faction/race via realistic consequences.
1 character per account.
alignment system which controls npcs' disposition towards you. (if your a bad person, npcs wont talk/trade with you, and youll become KOS to gaurds)
equipment that isnt as character-defining as it is in eq clones.
skill based advancement system, not level based. the gap between characters at different levels isnt nearly as drastic as in level based games.
twitch gameplay skill emphasized nearly as equally as avatar skills (the powergamers dont have too big an advantage)
also collision detection+twitch gameplay is a the best anti zerg (for this type of game), and in a game where you can potentially kill everyone, friendly fire is automatically integrated lol. zergs ftl. coordinated/skilled groups are the way to go.
player cities (destroyable too ofcourse) that you want to defend/attack. destroying should be a long and hard process though.
also a reason is needed not to hunt noobs or questing gurus, a reason not to even be near them. aka a reason to fight other guilds/factions/races so you wont bother with the noobs and quest gurus. resource hotspots (mines with valuable resources, reagent fields), defensible positions, trading route hotspots (creating a thriving economic hub), and the aforementioned player cities give even the most ruthless pkrs a workload to occupy them.
that is an ideal system for an FFA game, but again, i think there should be reasonable consequences for killing those of your own race/faction. again, people have different playstyles, and this is mine. nowhere else can i find the challenge. nowhere else can such amazing scenarios take place (which make for amazing stories + experiences). nowhere else can you find the dynamics, the freedom, the community.
thats one thing i love about the hardcore pvp games ive played. the community. soooo much rambling on about 12 year old kiddies l33t pwnzing, when seriously that may be 5%-10% of the population i encounter in these games. the communities are so tight though. there is also an amazing amount of drama, sometimes when i couldnt play for long stretches, i could watch the server events unfold in the forums, and it would actually be entertaining as hell lol. when i was actually playing and was invovled in the whole "mess", it was even better. youll never have closer friends in an mmo than the guys that always stick by you (& sometimes risk everything for you) and never take advantage or backstab you in an FFA pvp game. youll never have more bitter enemies than those other people who do backstab you and cheat you. its intense, its fun.
i love the mmo ffapvp genre, so sue me.
oh and no, CS/BF/UT04 are all fun, but they are completely different experiences, much less rewarding and engaging, and more about instant fun. so thats not where im going for my pvp.
p.s. dont give me the your a greifer "all ya wanna do is trounce other peoples fun" bullsh*t, im an anti-pkr (and always have been)
_______________________________________________ Games looking forward to: Fallen Earth, Mortal Online
The noob formally not known as not being the formally not unkown known APEist; The Stone Cold Killer of Tarq.
Topic is too long to read, i read the first page and here's my reply:
Yes, some games r very carebear-ish, becuz more and more little kids(under15) r playing MMO and they cry about it day and nite when someone else kills them, and brag when they "owned" someone else. The general community of MMOs r getting worse and worse, and its creating many problems for developers as they try to find the medium between hardcore gamers who play MMO for RP, grind, siege or w/e they play it for vs those who cant play past their bedtime. I personally use to play RO, then hardcore L2(20hrs a day) and honestly there is a seperation between the two groups. In L2 there is a "discourage PKing system" which works for more casual gamers, but our group and our opponent for that matter do organized PvP and PK anytime anywhere, so that system really doesnt have an effect on the hardcore gamers since we simply work the karma off, rather quickly i might add.
In closing i feel that the deteroiating quality of the gamers r the main reason more and more carebear MMOs r coming out. On a side note, i'm loving RF-Online, CHIPWAR FTW, too bad my server's turning carebear since Cora and Acc r working together and "sharing the mine", boooooo
What's funny is Burning Pain is a Carebear himself by his own admission.
A carebear by definition isn't someone that doesn't want to ever PVP they are people that what to choose the time and place for thier PVP to take place.
Now what Burning Pain is doing in EVE is the exactly a carebear act. Not actually playing the game for 6 months till he get's what he feels is a "I win" button of a certain million SP only THEN actually jumping into the game to play with others.
Now there's nothing wrong with that either but your only whining about people such as yourself at the end of the day.
Originally posted by BurningPain Its a sad era of MMORPG's we are living in. Controversey & Drama between players is non-existant. MMORPG's now a days focus on comfortable, peaceful environments where everyone can be bed buddies. Good vs Evil? Not really, just a bunch of friends killing each other back & forth in an equal exchange of virtual points. It's very sad indeed. The following MMORPG's were non-carebear: - Ultima Online The Old Days (You know what i'm talking about) - Ultima Online Siege Perilous - Asherons Call Darktide - Shadowbane - Meridian 59 - Older MUD's with FFA PVP environments The above MMORPG's were environments of free will. That is why they entertained me so much. Drama & controversey was the dominant factor, backed by strong player communities. In the above MMORPG's that I mentioned the friends you would make were real friends. Why? Because they didn't kill you. You don't know who your true friends are in a MMORPG until you hang out with them in an environment that allows free for all pvp, becuase if they haven't killed you yet they must be your friend. The above MMORPG's had penalties for PVP, you would drop items if you died in PVP. This would add a HUGE adrenaline rush to PVP combat knowing you would drop items when you die. Also players were able to communicate with each other without restriction. You could freely message your enemies in a verbal exchange of insults, I'm sorry but that is what men simply do. When I hang out with my friends we constantly insult each other in good fun while hitting each other in the arm. Carebear MMORPG's - World of Warcraft - Dark age of Camelot - Everquest - Everquest II - All the other MMORPG's trying to be like EQ & WOW It all started with Everquest. The first MMORPG that came out that protected you from the dangers of PVP. Everquest was the mother bird that nestled you under her wing and protected you against players like myself. If you die in PVP, don't even worry about it. Ain't no thing. Its all good. PVP turned into a lifeless, mindless version of pacman but with swords. Collect points & more points & more points. Not once can you interact with your enemy on a verbal scale and actually exchange words. What hollywood movie have you seen where the good guys never talk to the bad guys? It is almost unheard of. The above carebears mmorpgs have barely any penalties for PVP, thus removing the element of any adrenaline rush. There are things to ponder my friends. We are in the carebear era of MMORPG's. I hope it will be over soon because all the carebear mmorpgs coming out end up being meaningless once you hit cap level. PVP & points just don't mix. FFA PVP - Kill anyone, anytime, anywhere - When a player dies they drop all items. - Able to talk to any player without any kind of verbal restrictions. - No instances (So you can't hide) - No Zones - World PVP Only - No NPC Guards. The above rulesets give players the control. That is what it is all about, for us the players to be in control, not the NPC's or the devs. It is supposed to be "our game" not theirs. BurningPain Father LuzArius
Quoted for the Fing Truth!!!
All you Devs out there...Get busy making us feel like were part of the game again and stop making 12 yr olds parents Bank Funds your Main Priority!
Comments
Point made.
I don't want to write this, and you don't want to read it. But now it's too late for both of us.
Reply confirms.
I don't want to write this, and you don't want to read it. But now it's too late for both of us.
I laugh at these points.
Stop rambling on about being a hardcore PVPer ; you're just one of those greedy assholes who'd see a lowbie with a nice item, get a few friends to go with you, gank the poor guy and get all his stuff.
You won't know real PVP even if it hit you right on the head, kid. You only want to grief. Go play CS or something.
Read this http://www.gamergod.com/article.php?article_id=3606
This is the main reason FFAPvP does not exist. Why is this topic still alive? Why don't people ever learn? Why do you insist on whining hours on end? I have read that UO was not killed by carebears, is was the other way around, of course now all the "hardcore" guys will throw a tidal wave at me, but 20,000 against 5 people average say UO wasn't the big grand-daddy many made it out to be.
Read that topic and understand, maybe then you will see and this topic can fizzle out.
I think it's the objective of your past self to make you cringe.
lol. different people like different types of games, and thats that. personally FFA PvP with no consequences for rpking is a no no. i like a faction vs. faction (or race vs. race) setup that rewards you for killing members of the opposing factions/races, and discourages killing of one's own faction/race via realistic consequences.
1 character per account.
alignment system which controls npcs' disposition towards you. (if your a bad person, npcs wont talk/trade with you, and youll become KOS to gaurds)
equipment that isnt as character-defining as it is in eq clones.
skill based advancement system, not level based. the gap between characters at different levels isnt nearly as drastic as in level based games.
twitch gameplay skill emphasized nearly as equally as avatar skills (the powergamers dont have too big an advantage)
also collision detection+twitch gameplay is a the best anti zerg (for this type of game), and in a game where you can potentially kill everyone, friendly fire is automatically integrated lol. zergs ftl. coordinated/skilled groups are the way to go.
player cities (destroyable too ofcourse) that you want to defend/attack. destroying should be a long and hard process though.
also a reason is needed not to hunt noobs or questing gurus, a reason not to even be near them. aka a reason to fight other guilds/factions/races so you wont bother with the noobs and quest gurus. resource hotspots (mines with valuable resources, reagent fields), defensible positions, trading route hotspots (creating a thriving economic hub), and the aforementioned player cities give even the most ruthless pkrs a workload to occupy them.
that is an ideal system for an FFA game, but again, i think there should be reasonable consequences for killing those of your own race/faction. again, people have different playstyles, and this is mine. nowhere else can i find the challenge. nowhere else can such amazing scenarios take place (which make for amazing stories + experiences). nowhere else can you find the dynamics, the freedom, the community.
thats one thing i love about the hardcore pvp games ive played. the community. soooo much rambling on about 12 year old kiddies l33t pwnzing, when seriously that may be 5%-10% of the population i encounter in these games. the communities are so tight though. there is also an amazing amount of drama, sometimes when i couldnt play for long stretches, i could watch the server events unfold in the forums, and it would actually be entertaining as hell lol. when i was actually playing and was invovled in the whole "mess", it was even better. youll never have closer friends in an mmo than the guys that always stick by you (& sometimes risk everything for you) and never take advantage or backstab you in an FFA pvp game. youll never have more bitter enemies than those other people who do backstab you and cheat you. its intense, its fun.
i love the mmo ffapvp genre, so sue me.
oh and no, CS/BF/UT04 are all fun, but they are completely different experiences, much less rewarding and engaging, and more about instant fun. so thats not where im going for my pvp.
p.s. dont give me the your a greifer "all ya wanna do is trounce other peoples fun" bullsh*t, im an anti-pkr (and always have been)
_______________________________________________
Games looking forward to: Fallen Earth, Mortal Online
The noob formally not known as not being the formally not unkown known APEist; The Stone Cold Killer of Tarq.
Topic is too long to read, i read the first page and here's my reply:
Yes, some games r very carebear-ish, becuz more and more little kids(under15) r playing MMO and they cry about it day and nite when someone else kills them, and brag when they "owned" someone else. The general community of MMOs r getting worse and worse, and its creating many problems for developers as they try to find the medium between hardcore gamers who play MMO for RP, grind, siege or w/e they play it for vs those who cant play past their bedtime. I personally use to play RO, then hardcore L2(20hrs a day) and honestly there is a seperation between the two groups. In L2 there is a "discourage PKing system" which works for more casual gamers, but our group and our opponent for that matter do organized PvP and PK anytime anywhere, so that system really doesnt have an effect on the hardcore gamers since we simply work the karma off, rather quickly i might add.
In closing i feel that the deteroiating quality of the gamers r the main reason more and more carebear MMOs r coming out. On a side note, i'm loving RF-Online, CHIPWAR FTW, too bad my server's turning carebear since Cora and Acc r working together and "sharing the mine", boooooo
What's funny is Burning Pain is a Carebear himself by his own admission.
A carebear by definition isn't someone that doesn't want to ever PVP they are people that what to choose the time and place for thier PVP to take place.
Now what Burning Pain is doing in EVE is the exactly a carebear act. Not actually playing the game for 6 months till he get's what he feels is a "I win" button of a certain million SP only THEN actually jumping into the game to play with others.
Now there's nothing wrong with that either but your only whining about people such as yourself at the end of the day.
Quoted for the Fing Truth!!!
All you Devs out there...Get busy making us feel like were part of the game again and stop making 12 yr olds parents Bank Funds your Main Priority!
Nobody is perfect...My name is Nobody