Are you warring, or griefing. There is a vast difference between griefing and warring.
Playing on a PvP server in WoW I realized the difference. When killing anotherplayer in WoW, you get no experience, you get no items, you get no gold, you get no weapons training experience, yet you are constantly being ganked by someone 5 levels higher then you, its always 5 levels higher then yourself, you are never ganked by someone equal or lower to your own level. They get no experience, no items from you, they get no gold, they get no weapons training experience, yet they still gank me. Why is that? BECAUSE THEY ARE MENTAL DEGENERATES! They are griefing me. I am trying to mind my own business doing the for-everquest grind and someone of the opposing faction (im alliance, and they are horde) who is always 5 levels higher then me griefs me.
There is no war, being no land can be conquered.
There is no war, being no side ever effects the other, everything is static.
There is no war.
They get no items from me.
They get no gold from me.
They get no experience for PK'ing me.
Yet I get PK'ed all the time, because they are MENTAL DEGENERATE GRIEFERS. And you want to give them items, gold, and experience? nonononono, that will never fly.
Do you want a "REAL" game where you can PK? Give us a REAL FREAKING WAR! Let us conquer territory. Let us build buildings. Let us raise armies. Let random murder and random theft be reprimandable, at least occasionally reprimandable, but never-never as it is with the griefers, social degenerates and gankers. And the only way to do it is to impliment RTS elements into a MMO game. RTS=Real Time Strategy.
I moved to a non-PvP server with World of Warcraft to avoid the social degenerates and griefers, and am actually enjoying myself now. There is a difference between PvP and griefing, and no everquest clone supports PvP, they only support griefing.
Originally posted by Greatness Reason why I love FFA PvP MMOs is that they give a sense of freedom (ex. I was hooked on Lineage 2 for a while) but just because someone who may like freedom in a different way doesn't mean they should stop making MMOs like that. It is the developers choice, not yours unless you want to start making one which means that you would be a developer.
You mean like pre-trammel UO where you can destroy your opponents house? OH THATS right, you couldnt do that, could you. Thats not freedom, thats griefer's paradise, where you take an everquest clone and give the griefer's free reign to, well, grief.
Some of us, "Carebears" want the ability to wage war, not grief grief grief grief greif greif greif.
Originally posted by GRIMACHU Full on PvP won't work in level-based games as the disparity between players means no risk. If any doofus with a pointed stick has a (minimal) chance of taking you out, and there are penalties for PvPing then, maybe, it'll work - a bit. Personally I hope someone DOES create a hardcore PvP game that all these w*nkers will go to to make the environment on every other game 100% better.
Exactly, FFA PvP with everquest-clones just dont work. It has to be structured like dull guild-wars, which by the way, is my least favorite game out of the entire bunch, I hate it.
Originally posted by Umbrood So essentially, the carebears won? Cant say I am on any one side here but. That has GOT to sting in the minds of the PK doods. I shalll have to say grats on a battle well fought. Now we wait for all the excuses, "lag" just wont cut it in this one.
Nobody won anything, there was never a WAR or LAND to fight on. Its all static, you just dont get it.
Originally posted by Desalus For all of you opposed to FFA PVP: You do realize that if we, the FFA PVP advocators, actually had a couple of decent mmo's that offered FFA PVP, there would be a lot less of these threads. Right now the current market for mmo's basically caters towards people that want to play in un-dynamic, static worlds with little to no risk. For those of us that want to be able to change the world as we see fit, we are basically left with two mmo's: Shadowbane, and EVE Online. Shadowbane is nearly dead, and EVE Online does not fit everyones playstyle.
Shadowbane and Eve Online are not dynamic worlds, they are so slow, they are static. They are tweaked everquest clones. Pose your arguement differently instead of calling everyone that disagrees wtih you a carebear.
Originally posted by Nerf09 Shadowbane and Eve Online are not dynamic worlds, they are so slow, they are static. They are tweaked everquest clones. Pose your arguement differently instead of calling everyone that disagrees wtih you a carebear.
EVE's not dynamic? I take it you've never played the game....
Phoenix Alliance and NBSI alliance (stands for "not-blue-shoot-it", a reference to killing everyone who's not a known friendly) used to own most of the galactic North in EVE, but that territory has been changing hands over the past couple of weeks with the onset of a coordinated attack by The Five alliance and Forsaken Empire alliance. PA has already lost their home system to The Five, and NBSI is down to one last station.
These alliances, btw, are composed entirely of PLAYERS, not NPCs, and the total scope of the war in the North consists of literally thousands of combatants, all vying for control of territory.
So anyway, territory changing hands daily as part of a massive player-driven war isn't dynamic?
-Wrayeth "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!"
How much as it is kind of scary to lose all your items, i really agree with the poster of this thread
Have any of you ever played GOTHIC or GOTHIC II by piranha bytes? Don't you just love killing every npc in this game or if you lose a sword, you can make yourself another one when you go to the smithy? I love this realism... Real world medieval crafting, owning an own house (no instance crap), owning a shop or a smithy and actually making real blades.... Having a guild and killing opposite guilds because they sweared at you or stole the items from a guild member or yours....
I truly love how i can knock out the guards in this game, not robbing their life, but everything else they have.... I would love to imagine a pvp game (that's why i can't wait for gothic online to come) that would actually give us a real castle like in gothic, where everyone wanders around, and everyone can kill you no matter what... You would be able to go 4 ways... The water mages, the fire mages, the militia or the mercenary (and while fire or water mage, turn evil and go necro [xardas])
Imagine that it would be like gothic, but every npc in gothic would be a real life player.... That if you want to join the mages, you first go novice, you do some real quest (like searching the cave somewhere), instead of getting the pointers like in (almost) every other mmorpg...
Boy i truly wish darkfall is going to be alot like my idea here.... Cause that's basicly what i adore... The original gothic's old town (the castle) becoming fully to live (no more npcs)
Imagine this .. You need a new sword? What would you have done in that era? Either you buy it from a smithy (a crafter with a smithy) or you buy it from a merchant (thus a real player selling his goods)...
AND NO MORE SPECIAL DROPS FROM BOSSES.. Seriously ... why would a dragon drop a sword? It can't even use it.... More realistic would be the dragon dropping something that allows you to make a fantastic sword, or a dragon's treasure (chest) (this is just an idea =p)
Hopefully a likewise game will release in this era
:edit: oh btw the militia would inhold the city guards and stuff, who get payed by the local baron to guard the castle (there would be a diplomacy system that gets you higher and higher until eventually you're the baron himself.... it would be VERY hard to get this high though
Originally posted by Jackall How much as it is kind of scary to lose all your items, i really agree with the poster of this thread :oHave any of you ever played GOTHIC or GOTHIC II by piranha bytes? Don't you just love killing every npc in this game or if you lose a sword, you can make yourself another one when you go to the smithy? I love this realism... Real world medieval crafting, owning an own house (no instance crap), owning a shop or a smithy and actually making real blades.... Having a guild and killing opposite guilds because they sweared at you or stole the items from a guild member or yours....I truly love how i can knock out the guards in this game, not robbing their life, but everything else they have.... I would love to imagine a pvp game (that's why i can't wait for gothic online to come) that would actually give us a real castle like in gothic, where everyone wanders around, and everyone can kill you no matter what... You would be able to go 4 ways... The water mages, the fire mages, the militia or the mercenary (and while fire or water mage, turn evil and go necro [xardas])Imagine that it would be like gothic, but every npc in gothic would be a real life player.... That if you want to join the mages, you first go novice, you do some real quest (like searching the cave somewhere), instead of getting the pointers like in (almost) every other mmorpg... Boy i truly wish darkfall is going to be alot like my idea here.... Cause that's basicly what i adore... The original gothic's old town (the castle) becoming fully to live (no more npcs)Imagine this .. You need a new sword? What would you have done in that era? Either you buy it from a smithy (a crafter with a smithy) or you buy it from a merchant (thus a real player selling his goods)...AND NO MORE SPECIAL DROPS FROM BOSSES.. Seriously ... why would a dragon drop a sword? It can't even use it.... More realistic would be the dragon dropping something that allows you to make a fantastic sword, or a dragon's treasure (chest) (this is just an idea =p)Hopefully a likewise game will release in this era :edit: oh btw the militia would inhold the city guards and stuff, who get payed by the local baron to guard the castle (there would be a diplomacy system that gets you higher and higher until eventually you're the baron himself.... it would be VERY hard to get this high though
its called Battlefield 2. seriously, that would destroy everything good about MMORPG's, especialy removing special drops and having to work for your equipment. it will only turn the entire game in one big battlezone, and thats fun...for a week or so.
Originally posted by BurningPain Its a sad era of MMORPG's we are living in. Controversey & Drama between players is non-existant. MMORPG's now a days focus on comfortable, peaceful environments where everyone can be bed buddies. Good vs Evil? Not really, just a bunch of friends killing each other back & forth in an equal exchange of virtual points. It's very sad indeed. The following MMORPG's were non-carebear: - Ultima Online The Old Days (You know what i'm talking about) - Ultima Online Siege Perilous - Asherons Call Darktide - Shadowbane - Meridian 59 - Older MUD's with FFA PVP environments The above MMORPG's were environments of free will. That is why they entertained me so much. Drama & controversey was the dominant factor, backed by strong player communities. In the above MMORPG's that I mentioned the friends you would make were real friends. Why? Because they didn't kill you. You don't know who your true friends are in a MMORPG until you hang out with them in an environment that allows free for all pvp, becuase if they haven't killed you yet they must be your friend. The above MMORPG's had penalties for PVP, you would drop items if you died in PVP. This would add a HUGE adrenaline rush to PVP combat knowing you would drop items when you die. Also players were able to communicate with each other without restriction. You could freely message your enemies in a verbal exchange of insults, I'm sorry but that is what men simply do. When I hang out with my friends we constantly insult each other in good fun while hitting each other in the arm. Carebear MMORPG's - World of Warcraft - Dark age of Camelot - Everquest - Everquest II - All the other MMORPG's trying to be like EQ & WOW It all started with Everquest. The first MMORPG that came out that protected you from the dangers of PVP. Everquest was the mother bird that nestled you under her wing and protected you against players like myself. If you die in PVP, don't even worry about it. Ain't no thing. Its all good. PVP turned into a lifeless, mindless version of pacman but with swords. Collect points & more points & more points. Not once can you interact with your enemy on a verbal scale and actually exchange words. What hollywood movie have you seen where the good guys never talk to the bad guys? It is almost unheard of. The above carebears mmorpgs have barely any penalties for PVP, thus removing the element of any adrenaline rush. There are things to ponder my friends. We are in the carebear era of MMORPG's. I hope it will be over soon because all the carebear mmorpgs coming out end up being meaningless once you hit cap level. PVP & points just don't mix. FFA PVP - Kill anyone, anytime, anywhere - When a player dies they drop all items. - Able to talk to any player without any kind of verbal restrictions. - No instances (So you can't hide) - No Zones - World PVP Only - No NPC Guards. The above rulesets give players the control. That is what it is all about, for us the players to be in control, not the NPC's or the devs. It is supposed to be "our game" not theirs. BurningPain Father LuzArius
Translation: Wah Wah Wah, I wanna gank people whenever i feel like
SERIOUSLY, times change, either get with it or get left behind
Heres one youve probably heard before..............Dont like it? Dont play it! The reason the games are like this is for the huge amount of people who do like it that way. And huge amount of people = huge amount of money.
Also carebears arent the reason these types of pvp games are a thing of the past. Certain players chose to exploit and grief non stop.....causing players to quit and also causing a customer support headache for these said companies. Everytime you invite FFA pvp into a game, there are a select few who have to be elite dicks and exploit and grief there way to the top. Most people can handle being killed, what most cant handle is being unfairly taken advantage of in a game.
Would I like to see a FFA pvp game done right.....damn straight I would. But Im not gonna whine and moan about it. Its only falling upon deaf ears anyway.
It's true.. but then again... would you rather play a static game where nothing really changes (wow)... Real open pvp is not really necessary and the post i made was just what i would love to become as a game, but it's not really that necessary.... What i do want however is a realistic medieval game... Making stuff through a smithy and not just with moving your hands a bit (wow)... Or where open pvp is allowed outside the city, and in the city it's somehow safe... However i like the idea of the players deciding how the game runs.. not the developers.. So maybe npc guards... but certainly not an npc for everything... I mean... I play mmorpgs because of the massive multiplayer aspect... What would the fun be if it was just coop? Many normal games that don't need monthly payment and aren't massive kind of offer the same coop...
And if you make the resemblence with battlefield 2 than you might also add serious sam II.... It also offers coop and it's the same deal but it's just not massive.....
... Although i think resembling mmorpgs to first person shooters like battlefield 2 is pathetic... You don't gain skill in fpshooters, maybe unlocking a weapon by either honor (bf2, AA:SF, ...) or money (CS, CS:source, ...) is not what mmorpgs like planetside offer... It's lots of larger than that.. so why resemble it to it?
The point is... Most games we play are carebears... cause we like killing npcs (no matter if you say you don't, most games don't offer another way of leveling up so we should deal with it ) ... most of us like slaying dragons/demons/vampires/<enter mobname here>..... without any pking at all.... On the other hand there are people who love killing other players, but it either takes too long till this pvp part actually gets fun or there's no point to it since you can't contact your enemies, or steal from them.
It's true that some people would abuse the system and try to grief... but then again... in those days nothing was safe... We should need a system that makes medieval mmorpgs these days more realistic, while there should be a way to gain the money to make sure you have some swords or shields or armor reserved in a chest... Or how about a permadeath system that makes sure if they really kill you (so not just knock you out) you actually die...
Burning, I jumped into this to offer up two games that have the things you say are missing, yet you shot them down in two seconds flat. Let's get to the heart of this, your post should have read:
"I want a game where I am god and kill everyone and have all the uber equipment without anyone whining and all my friends get the same thing except against me and I run around all day griefing people with no consequences and when someone complains I will call them n00bs and carebears."
I realize that there are many others out there with your mentality who will never be satisfied by any of the MMOs out even with all the choices. I suggest going back to your console game and realizing that MMOs are not for you because you obviously will never get the "I pwnz all" feeling when playing against live people...well, without hacks, bots, ebaying and cheats anyway.
Originally posted by Jackall How much as it is kind of scary to lose all your items, i really agree with the poster of this thread Have any of you ever played GOTHIC or GOTHIC II by piranha bytes? Don't you just love killing every npc in this game or if you lose a sword, you can make yourself another one when you go to the smithy? I love this realism... Real world medieval crafting, owning an own house (no instance crap), owning a shop or a smithy and actually making real blades.... Having a guild and killing opposite guilds because they sweared at you or stole the items from a guild member or yours.... I truly love how i can knock out the guards in this game, not robbing their life, but everything else they have.... I would love to imagine a pvp game (that's why i can't wait for gothic online to come) that would actually give us a real castle like in gothic, where everyone wanders around, and everyone can kill you no matter what... You would be able to go 4 ways... The water mages, the fire mages, the militia or the mercenary (and while fire or water mage, turn evil and go necro [xardas]) Imagine that it would be like gothic, but every npc in gothic would be a real life player.... That if you want to join the mages, you first go novice, you do some real quest (like searching the cave somewhere), instead of getting the pointers like in (almost) every other mmorpg... Boy i truly wish darkfall is going to be alot like my idea here.... Cause that's basicly what i adore... The original gothic's old town (the castle) becoming fully to live (no more npcs) Imagine this .. You need a new sword? What would you have done in that era? Either you buy it from a smithy (a crafter with a smithy) or you buy it from a merchant (thus a real player selling his goods)... AND NO MORE SPECIAL DROPS FROM BOSSES.. Seriously ... why would a dragon drop a sword? It can't even use it.... More realistic would be the dragon dropping something that allows you to make a fantastic sword, or a dragon's treasure (chest) (this is just an idea =p) Hopefully a likewise game will release in this era :edit: oh btw the militia would inhold the city guards and stuff, who get payed by the local baron to guard the castle (there would be a diplomacy system that gets you higher and higher until eventually you're the baron himself.... it would be VERY hard to get this high though
Like I've said before
Give a try to Darkfall when it pops out. It has same like twitchy fighting system like gothic, just a bit refined and deeper with over 500 different skills to learn up (no levels!). You can own your own house, just like in UO. You can build it to be a gorgeous Citadel or castle if you have funds, you can make whole cities with your clan fi you're powerful enough. You can attack a player everywhere, I mean everywhere, there's NO safe zones in the whole game and killing guards isn't "exploiting", it's allowed.
Not sure how easy it is to get all you stuff back, because when you die, you will loose everything, from your mount to your gauntlets, and other players can loot them. But every item is craftable in this game if enough skill and enough real life logistics. With the crafting system you can even make new items to the game, what no one has ever seen. You can change looks and other of the item. If you know how to do a "blood chopper", "rain maker" and "iron broad sword", you can make a "Blood chopper Broad sword, what makes rain as a special skill". Those items were out of my imagination, but that about how the economy system work.
Originally posted by BurningPain Its a sad era of MMORPG's we are living in. blahblahblahblahdiatribeblah. <Lots of crap here to fill in space removed to spare anyone else having to read it> BurningPain Father LuzArius
You made me laugh thanks
This is what real men do rofl, really i couldnt help laughin at that.
I aint even going to argue with what youve said cause that would be wasting my energy typing. Lets just say that i think you are one of those tards that when he plays a game where you can kill a fellow player , you HAVE to kill him.
If you want adrenaline rush and chance to get some cash or items go play russian roulette with yer "men" friends.
Originally posted by Gameloading MMORPG players are just like old people.
"everything was better in the past" there are a few MMO's with pvp death penalty's. Lineage 2 (But I dun't like teh grind /cry /cry) or EVE (OMGZ I dun't want teh space ship!!1) Everquest 2 pvp servers (OMGZ WTFZ SOE!1!/?!? nevar!)
It wasn't the death penalties that made the games great. Does Lineage 2 even have player housing?? And about EVE your right who wants to fly around in an empty void...it's very boring and it is in no way similar to the ruleset in pre-trammel UO. You can't relate to eve like you can a real charactor. I play eq2 and those servers are exactly what the OP doesnt' want. I feel the same way. If I run up on someone from the other side we have no reason to hate each other but we have to fight no matter. In UO guilds had rival guilds because at one time such and such killed someone from the other guild took all of his stuff and then said rude comment as he was running away with every item the guy had.....this set up a WAR...a real one....but it was all unwritten laws...and all of these laws were created by the players not the devs...if you don't understand it then you are part of the problem
That's because UO was closer to a virtual world than today's MMORP's dare to go. If you look alot of games these days Like Lineage 2 which was mentioned dropped the RP on the tital, now alot of games are MMO's.
Originally posted by BurningPain Its a sad era of MMORPG's we are living in. Controversey & Drama between players is non-existant. MMORPG's now a days focus on comfortable, peaceful environments where everyone can be bed buddies. Good vs Evil? Not really, just a bunch of friends killing each other back & forth in an equal exchange of virtual points. It's very sad indeed. The following MMORPG's were non-carebear: - Ultima Online The Old Days (You know what i'm talking about) - Ultima Online Siege Perilous - Asherons Call Darktide - Shadowbane - Meridian 59 - Older MUD's with FFA PVP environments The above MMORPG's were environments of free will. That is why they entertained me so much. Drama & controversey was the dominant factor, backed by strong player communities. In the above MMORPG's that I mentioned the friends you would make were real friends. Why? Because they didn't kill you. You don't know who your true friends are in a MMORPG until you hang out with them in an environment that allows free for all pvp, becuase if they haven't killed you yet they must be your friend. The above MMORPG's had penalties for PVP, you would drop items if you died in PVP. This would add a HUGE adrenaline rush to PVP combat knowing you would drop items when you die. Also players were able to communicate with each other without restriction. You could freely message your enemies in a verbal exchange of insults, I'm sorry but that is what men simply do. When I hang out with my friends we constantly insult each other in good fun while hitting each other in the arm. Carebear MMORPG's - World of Warcraft - Dark age of Camelot - Everquest - Everquest II - All the other MMORPG's trying to be like EQ & WOW It all started with Everquest. The first MMORPG that came out that protected you from the dangers of PVP. Everquest was the mother bird that nestled you under her wing and protected you against players like myself. If you die in PVP, don't even worry about it. Ain't no thing. Its all good. PVP turned into a lifeless, mindless version of pacman but with swords. Collect points & more points & more points. Not once can you interact with your enemy on a verbal scale and actually exchange words. What hollywood movie have you seen where the good guys never talk to the bad guys? It is almost unheard of. The above carebears mmorpgs have barely any penalties for PVP, thus removing the element of any adrenaline rush. There are things to ponder my friends. We are in the carebear era of MMORPG's. I hope it will be over soon because all the carebear mmorpgs coming out end up being meaningless once you hit cap level. PVP & points just don't mix. FFA PVP - Kill anyone, anytime, anywhere - When a player dies they drop all items. - Able to talk to any player without any kind of verbal restrictions. - No instances (So you can't hide) - No Zones - World PVP Only - No NPC Guards. The above rulesets give players the control. That is what it is all about, for us the players to be in control, not the NPC's or the devs. It is supposed to be "our game" not theirs. BurningPain Father LuzArius
Just looking at your PvP and PvE titles, I cannot help but notice the ones with the biggest populations are the latter. That has to be for a reason. It isn't that folks don't like the concept of PvP, they just don't like the execution.
Open-ended PvP is and likely always will transform into endless mindless ganking by high levels of noobs. This in itself makes a hostile environment for any new person to enter the game, therefore such games may start off with an initial surge in subscriptions (because everyone is low level), but will ultimately decline very rapidly. It sort has to be like entering prison as a "new fish" and being targeted by a gang of experienced convicts. No one finds fun in that experience, except for the convicts.
Originally posted by Nerf09 Shadowbane and Eve Online are not dynamic worlds, they are so slow, they are static. They are tweaked everquest clones. Pose your arguement differently instead of calling everyone that disagrees wtih you a carebear.
EVE's not dynamic? I take it you've never played the game....
Phoenix Alliance and NBSI alliance (stands for "not-blue-shoot-it", a reference to killing everyone who's not a known friendly) used to own most of the galactic North in EVE, but that territory has been changing hands over the past couple of weeks with the onset of a coordinated attack by The Five alliance and Forsaken Empire alliance. PA has already lost their home system to The Five, and NBSI is down to one last station.
These alliances, btw, are composed entirely of PLAYERS, not NPCs, and the total scope of the war in the North consists of literally thousands of combatants, all vying for control of territory.
So anyway, territory changing hands daily as part of a massive player-driven war isn't dynamic?
You cannot change the environment, its static. YOu grind-mine and camp the gate, big whoop. Who cares what clan controls what instanced-server in Eve. Dont bother arguing with me, when you jump into a new system, you are changing servers.
Funny how PvE players are called Carebears when MOST pvp people will not play a game with perma death.
Who is the carebear now?
I dont do PvP cos I hate people trying to ruin my day by camping corpses etc and generally being a little unmentionable.
And from my experience of PvP players, they never attack anything the same or higher level. So brave, I am so scared...
Now playing: VG (after a long break from MMORPGS) Played for more than a month: Darkfall online, Vanguard SOH, Everquest, Horizons, WoW, SWG, Everquest II, Eve
Originally posted by metalcore Funny how PvE players are called Carebears when MOST pvp people will not play a game with perma death. Who is the carebear now? I dont do PvP cos I hate people trying to ruin my day by camping corpses etc and generally being a little unmentionable. And from my experience of PvP players, they never attack anything the same or higher level. So brave, I am so scared...
You got them right there :} seriously all of the hardcore PVPers out there HAD to PVE, no matter what you say, it's a fact, you PVEed so you could go to PVP, and you will need a better item to compete, so you'll PVE for it or buy it, and to buy it you need money, which is done by PVE.
and i dont call corpse camping PVP at all, it's lame, disgusting and a lowlife would do that.
I love how these guys all talk about "Reality" in games. It'd be more REAL if..............., It's not REAL cause........., I can't kill people and take their shit that's not REAL.
Lets break down REAL here shall we? How REAL is running around killing people and stealing from them with no consequenses? How REAL is dying and coming back to life magically? How REAL is murding and not being imprisoned? How REAL are goblins, magic, orcs, spaceships, lightsabers, dragons and fairies? Time for a REALITY CHECK fellas. MMORPGs aren't exactly about REAL. If you want REAL walk outside once in a while. Try killin someone and taking their shit there and see how that works for ya, I bet you see how REAL it is then.
What a dumb thread. I didn't even read the ten pages of dumbness herein. Play World War II Online. This is PvP hardmode where only your personal skill counts, and not some uber loot you bought off Ebay.
But I'm sure some of you self-appointed PvP gods can't handle it without your loot crutch. You'll come back here with some made up excuse as to why the game sucks when in fact it is you that can't handle even odds.
_____________________________ Currently Playing: LOTRO; DDO Played: AC2, AO, Auto Assault, CoX, DAoC, DDO, Earth&Beyond, EQ1, EQ2, EVE, Fallen Earth, Jumpgate, Roma Victor, Second Life, SWG, V:SoH, WoW, World War II Online.
Games I'm watching: Infinity: The Quest for Earth, Force of Arms.
anyways gettin back to the point...the lets drop all preconceptions that people who want pvp are scary serial killers in the making who want to live out sick murdering fantasys becuase we arnt...it just alot of us realise mmos cannot continue down the road they are currently taking...as you all know im all for pvp and ffa...but also i recognise the need to escape this at the same time to organise your thoughts and preapre yourself...like jimmysycthe said earlier detterents around civilised towns and there borders such as uber npcs that patrol the grounds and surrounding areas. where players can summon assistance of these guards thru a call for help of some sort...this can create semi safe havens for people to organise therteselves before stepping into the unknown. also the trend of classes and levels also have to dropped and replaced with approaches such as twitch skill combat...this can give any player a personal deterence to wrong doers...if fred the noob is confronted with 2 or 3 wud be murderers....fred still has the ability to control his sword and where it lands ...if he fights well enough fred can quite possibly win and reap the benfits. serial killers will be forced to live outside civilisation and not have the benefits of using towns and there facilitys....there are so many ideas open to creating a better experience...and at the end of the day all opinions aside thats what everyone on this website is looking for
Comments
Are you warring, or griefing. There is a vast difference between griefing and warring.
Playing on a PvP server in WoW I realized the difference. When killing anotherplayer in WoW, you get no experience, you get no items, you get no gold, you get no weapons training experience, yet you are constantly being ganked by someone 5 levels higher then you, its always 5 levels higher then yourself, you are never ganked by someone equal or lower to your own level. They get no experience, no items from you, they get no gold, they get no weapons training experience, yet they still gank me. Why is that? BECAUSE THEY ARE MENTAL DEGENERATES! They are griefing me. I am trying to mind my own business doing the for-everquest grind and someone of the opposing faction (im alliance, and they are horde) who is always 5 levels higher then me griefs me.
There is no war, being no land can be conquered.
There is no war, being no side ever effects the other, everything is static.
There is no war.
They get no items from me.
They get no gold from me.
They get no experience for PK'ing me.
Yet I get PK'ed all the time, because they are MENTAL DEGENERATE GRIEFERS. And you want to give them items, gold, and experience? nonononono, that will never fly.
Do you want a "REAL" game where you can PK? Give us a REAL FREAKING WAR! Let us conquer territory. Let us build buildings. Let us raise armies. Let random murder and random theft be reprimandable, at least occasionally reprimandable, but never-never as it is with the griefers, social degenerates and gankers. And the only way to do it is to impliment RTS elements into a MMO game. RTS=Real Time Strategy.
I moved to a non-PvP server with World of Warcraft to avoid the social degenerates and griefers, and am actually enjoying myself now. There is a difference between PvP and griefing, and no everquest clone supports PvP, they only support griefing.
You mean like pre-trammel UO where you can destroy your opponents house? OH THATS right, you couldnt do that, could you. Thats not freedom, thats griefer's paradise, where you take an everquest clone and give the griefer's free reign to, well, grief.
Some of us, "Carebears" want the ability to wage war, not grief grief grief grief greif greif greif.
EVE's not dynamic? I take it you've never played the game....
Phoenix Alliance and NBSI alliance (stands for "not-blue-shoot-it", a reference to killing everyone who's not a known friendly) used to own most of the galactic North in EVE, but that territory has been changing hands over the past couple of weeks with the onset of a coordinated attack by The Five alliance and Forsaken Empire alliance. PA has already lost their home system to The Five, and NBSI is down to one last station.
These alliances, btw, are composed entirely of PLAYERS, not NPCs, and the total scope of the war in the North consists of literally thousands of combatants, all vying for control of territory.
So anyway, territory changing hands daily as part of a massive player-driven war isn't dynamic?
-Wrayeth
"Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!"
How much as it is kind of scary to lose all your items, i really agree with the poster of this thread
Have any of you ever played GOTHIC or GOTHIC II by piranha bytes? Don't you just love killing every npc in this game or if you lose a sword, you can make yourself another one when you go to the smithy? I love this realism... Real world medieval crafting, owning an own house (no instance crap), owning a shop or a smithy and actually making real blades.... Having a guild and killing opposite guilds because they sweared at you or stole the items from a guild member or yours....
I truly love how i can knock out the guards in this game, not robbing their life, but everything else they have.... I would love to imagine a pvp game (that's why i can't wait for gothic online to come) that would actually give us a real castle like in gothic, where everyone wanders around, and everyone can kill you no matter what... You would be able to go 4 ways... The water mages, the fire mages, the militia or the mercenary (and while fire or water mage, turn evil and go necro
[xardas])
Imagine that it would be like gothic, but every npc in gothic would be a real life player.... That if you want to join the mages, you first go novice, you do some real quest (like searching the cave somewhere), instead of getting the pointers like in (almost) every other mmorpg...
Boy i truly wish darkfall is going to be alot like my idea here.... Cause that's basicly what i adore... The original gothic's old town (the castle) becoming fully to live (no more npcs)
Imagine this .. You need a new sword? What would you have done in that era? Either you buy it from a smithy (a crafter with a smithy) or you buy it from a merchant (thus a real player selling his goods)...
AND NO MORE SPECIAL DROPS FROM BOSSES.. Seriously ... why would a dragon drop a sword? It can't even use it.... More realistic would be the dragon dropping something that allows you to make a fantastic sword, or a dragon's treasure (chest) (this is just an idea =p)
Hopefully a likewise game will release in this era
:edit: oh btw the militia would inhold the city guards and stuff, who get payed by the local baron to guard the castle (there would be a diplomacy system that gets you higher and higher until eventually you're the baron himself.... it would be VERY hard to get this high though
I decide who lives or who dies!
very cool idea, jack. if they made a game like this, where its easy to re-equip, open pvp, etc. i would play it.
its called Battlefield 2. seriously, that would destroy everything good about MMORPG's, especialy removing special drops and having to work for your equipment. it will only turn the entire game in one big battlezone, and thats fun...for a week or so.
Translation: Wah Wah Wah, I wanna gank people whenever i feel like
SERIOUSLY, times change, either get with it or get left behind
Heres one youve probably heard before..............Dont like it? Dont play it! The reason the games are like this is for the huge amount of people who do like it that way. And huge amount of people = huge amount of money.
Also carebears arent the reason these types of pvp games are a thing of the past. Certain players chose to exploit and grief non stop.....causing players to quit and also causing a customer support headache for these said companies. Everytime you invite FFA pvp into a game, there are a select few who have to be elite dicks and exploit and grief there way to the top. Most people can handle being killed, what most cant handle is being unfairly taken advantage of in a game.
Would I like to see a FFA pvp game done right.....damn straight I would. But Im not gonna whine and moan about it. Its only falling upon deaf ears anyway.
It's true.. but then again... would you rather play a static game where nothing really changes (wow)... Real open pvp is not really necessary and the post i made was just what i would love to become as a game, but it's not really that necessary.... What i do want however is a realistic medieval game... Making stuff through a smithy and not just with moving your hands a bit (wow)... Or where open pvp is allowed outside the city, and in the city it's somehow safe... However i like the idea of the players deciding how the game runs.. not the developers.. So maybe npc guards... but certainly not an npc for everything... I mean... I play mmorpgs because of the massive multiplayer aspect... What would the fun be if it was just coop? Many normal games that don't need monthly payment and aren't massive kind of offer the same coop...
And if you make the resemblence with battlefield 2 than you might also add serious sam II.... It also offers coop and it's the same deal but it's just not massive.....
... Although i think resembling mmorpgs to first person shooters like battlefield 2 is pathetic...
You don't gain skill in fpshooters, maybe unlocking a weapon by either honor (bf2, AA:SF, ...) or money (CS, CS:source, ...) is not what mmorpgs like planetside offer... It's lots of larger than that.. so why resemble it to it?
The point is... Most games we play are carebears... cause we like killing npcs (no matter if you say you don't, most games don't offer another way of leveling up so we should deal with it
) ... most of us like slaying dragons/demons/vampires/<enter mobname here>..... without any pking at all.... On the other hand there are people who love killing other players, but it either takes too long till this pvp part actually gets fun or there's no point to it since you can't contact your enemies, or steal from them.
It's true that some people would abuse the system and try to grief... but then again... in those days nothing was safe... We should need a system that makes medieval mmorpgs these days more realistic, while there should be a way to gain the money to make sure you have some swords or shields or armor reserved in a chest... Or how about a permadeath system that makes sure if they really kill you (so not just knock you out) you actually die...
I decide who lives or who dies!
Burning, I jumped into this to offer up two games that have the things you say are missing, yet you shot them down in two seconds flat. Let's get to the heart of this, your post should have read:
"I want a game where I am god and kill everyone and have all the uber equipment without anyone whining and all my friends get the same thing except against me and I run around all day griefing people with no consequences and when someone complains I will call them n00bs and carebears."
I realize that there are many others out there with your mentality who will never be satisfied by any of the MMOs out even with all the choices. I suggest going back to your console game and realizing that MMOs are not for you because you obviously will never get the "I pwnz all" feeling when playing against live people...well, without hacks, bots, ebaying and cheats anyway.
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NFWolfDude
Like I've said before
Give a try to Darkfall when it pops out. It has same like twitchy fighting system like gothic, just a bit refined and deeper with over 500 different skills to learn up (no levels!). You can own your own house, just like in UO. You can build it to be a gorgeous Citadel or castle if you have funds, you can make whole cities with your clan fi you're powerful enough. You can attack a player everywhere, I mean everywhere, there's NO safe zones in the whole game and killing guards isn't "exploiting", it's allowed.
Not sure how easy it is to get all you stuff back, because when you die, you will loose everything, from your mount to your gauntlets, and other players can loot them. But every item is craftable in this game if enough skill and enough real life logistics. With the crafting system you can even make new items to the game, what no one has ever seen. You can change looks and other of the item. If you know how to do a "blood chopper", "rain maker" and "iron broad sword", you can make a "Blood chopper Broad sword, what makes rain as a special skill". Those items were out of my imagination, but that about how the economy system work.
Check more out of the FAQ. http://www.darkfallonline.com/faq/items.html
You made me laugh thanks
This is what real men do rofl, really i couldnt help laughin at that.
I aint even going to argue with what youve said cause that would be wasting my energy typing. Lets just say that i think you are one of those tards that when he plays a game where you can kill a fellow player , you HAVE to kill him.
If you want adrenaline rush and chance to get some cash or items go play russian roulette with yer "men" friends.
It wasn't the death penalties that made the games great. Does Lineage 2 even have player housing?? And about EVE your right who wants to fly around in an empty void...it's very boring and it is in no way similar to the ruleset in pre-trammel UO. You can't relate to eve like you can a real charactor. I play eq2 and those servers are exactly what the OP doesnt' want. I feel the same way. If I run up on someone from the other side we have no reason to hate each other but we have to fight no matter. In UO guilds had rival guilds because at one time such and such killed someone from the other guild took all of his stuff and then said rude comment as he was running away with every item the guy had.....this set up a WAR...a real one....but it was all unwritten laws...and all of these laws were created by the players not the devs...if you don't understand it then you are part of the problem
That's because UO was closer to a virtual world than today's MMORP's dare to go. If you look alot of games these days Like Lineage 2 which was mentioned dropped the RP on the tital, now alot of games are MMO's.
Just looking at your PvP and PvE titles, I cannot help but notice the ones with the biggest populations are the latter. That has to be for a reason. It isn't that folks don't like the concept of PvP, they just don't like the execution.
Open-ended PvP is and likely always will transform into endless mindless ganking by high levels of noobs. This in itself makes a hostile environment for any new person to enter the game, therefore such games may start off with an initial surge in subscriptions (because everyone is low level), but will ultimately decline very rapidly. It sort has to be like entering prison as a "new fish" and being targeted by a gang of experienced convicts. No one finds fun in that experience, except for the convicts.
EVE's not dynamic? I take it you've never played the game....
Phoenix Alliance and NBSI alliance (stands for "not-blue-shoot-it", a reference to killing everyone who's not a known friendly) used to own most of the galactic North in EVE, but that territory has been changing hands over the past couple of weeks with the onset of a coordinated attack by The Five alliance and Forsaken Empire alliance. PA has already lost their home system to The Five, and NBSI is down to one last station.
These alliances, btw, are composed entirely of PLAYERS, not NPCs, and the total scope of the war in the North consists of literally thousands of combatants, all vying for control of territory.
So anyway, territory changing hands daily as part of a massive player-driven war isn't dynamic?
You cannot change the environment, its static. YOu grind-mine and camp the gate, big whoop. Who cares what clan controls what instanced-server in Eve. Dont bother arguing with me, when you jump into a new system, you are changing servers.
Funny how PvE players are called Carebears when MOST pvp people will not play a game with perma death.
Who is the carebear now?
I dont do PvP cos I hate people trying to ruin my day by camping corpses etc and generally being a little unmentionable.
And from my experience of PvP players, they never attack anything the same or higher level. So brave, I am so scared...
Now playing: VG (after a long break from MMORPGS)
Played for more than a month: Darkfall online, Vanguard SOH, Everquest, Horizons, WoW, SWG, Everquest II, Eve
I love how these guys all talk about "Reality" in games. It'd be more REAL if..............., It's not REAL cause........., I can't kill people and take their shit that's not REAL.
Lets break down REAL here shall we? How REAL is running around killing people and stealing from them with no consequenses? How REAL is dying and coming back to life magically? How REAL is murding and not being imprisoned? How REAL are goblins, magic, orcs, spaceships, lightsabers, dragons and fairies? Time for a REALITY CHECK fellas. MMORPGs aren't exactly about REAL. If you want REAL walk outside once in a while. Try killin someone and taking their shit there and see how that works for ya, I bet you see how REAL it is then.
The Millenium Lee
What a dumb thread. I didn't even read the ten pages of dumbness herein. Play World War II Online. This is PvP hardmode where only your personal skill counts, and not some uber loot you bought off Ebay.
But I'm sure some of you self-appointed PvP gods can't handle it without your loot crutch. You'll come back here with some made up excuse as to why the game sucks when in fact it is you that can't handle even odds.
_____________________________
Currently Playing: LOTRO; DDO
Played: AC2, AO, Auto Assault, CoX, DAoC, DDO, Earth&Beyond, EQ1, EQ2, EVE, Fallen Earth, Jumpgate, Roma Victor, Second Life, SWG, V:SoH, WoW, World War II Online.
Games I'm watching: Infinity: The Quest for Earth, Force of Arms.
Find the Truth: http://www.factcheck.org/
yes cerion thanks for the input....
C
anyways gettin back to the point...the lets drop all preconceptions that people who want pvp are scary serial killers in the making who want to live out sick murdering fantasys becuase we arnt...it just alot of us realise mmos cannot continue down the road they are currently taking...as you all know im all for pvp and ffa...but also i recognise the need to escape this at the same time to organise your thoughts and preapre yourself...like jimmysycthe said earlier detterents around civilised towns and there borders such as uber npcs that patrol the grounds and surrounding areas. where players can summon assistance of these guards thru a call for help of some sort...this can create semi safe havens for people to organise therteselves before stepping into the unknown. also the trend of classes and levels also have to dropped and replaced with approaches such as twitch skill combat...this can give any player a personal deterence to wrong doers...if fred the noob is confronted with 2 or 3 wud be murderers....fred still has the ability to control his sword and where it lands ...if he fights well enough fred can quite possibly win and reap the benfits. serial killers will be forced to live outside civilisation and not have the benefits of using towns and there facilitys....there are so many ideas open to creating a better experience...and at the end of the day all opinions aside thats what everyone on this website is looking for
C