Just reading this thread quickly it soon becomes blaitant who are the supporters of ffa pvp . Not by what they write but their general attitude and demenour lol.
Like the tard who thinks killing (HA!) a character in a G A M E makes him a big man and a toughy ..woooooooOOooOO scarey bad man we worship you in fear. This whole argument is like arguing that watching films on a tv instead of a cinema screen is carebear.
G A M E S A R E M E N T T O B E F U N !
If having someone else pay to play a game and then forcing them to take part in something they dont want to = fun in your trailer park then thats your hangup. You want PKing then go join the army ya invertebrate.
Stop spouting yer crap about how tough you are and how you could have NO life and sit by a corpse and wait to re kill the player who you decided to bully or what ever. Yes yes we all agree thats so tough and brave. /sarc
Really get a life man. Pressing a key on a keyboard isnt remotely tough and skillfull tbh.
Living life like an adult and growing up, now thats a little tougher.
The people that hate PvP so much because it will hurt their powergamer schedule, or even their pride that their character isn't a big hero, and on the other side, those players who want to be able to kill anyone anywhere with no lasting consequences.
In a more PvP environment where there is player interaction against players, the gaming environment become more dynamic. More alive, more engaging. Communities of like minded players flourish and gel more. There are unclear distinctions between safety and danger…it’s a variant that shouldn’t be hard-coded since the experience of a more open environment welcomes greater role-play range and flexibility and game-play variety. Otherwise, games fall to becoming very expensive and time-consuming graphic chat rooms.
Non-consensual PvP keeps the whole community awake. Evil roles should not be penalized and more or less than choosing a good role. There have got to be consequences and rewards for both.
Non-consensual conflict matters. It is what drives communities to rally to get emotionally and intellectually involved. It’s not about a fight between Hard-Core PKs or PvP enthusiasts or PvE enthusiasts who think PvPers are out to get them…this issue is fundamental for the gaming in general, the longevity of the game…the replayability, immersiveness, unpredictability, suspenseful nature and contributes to the need to come into and belong to a community – not to mention the stimulation and progress in mmorpg gaming that it favors.
Most agree that nobody wants another EQ or AC because better graphics is not what will keep people playing for long…good PvE will leave people with a sickening sense of been there done that. Arena PvP serves no genuine game-play value. In a climate like DAoC, shadowbane, Lineage, SWG, Dragon Empires, Trials of Ascension, or Darkfall, PvP does not have to be an afterthough with switches or arenas. It can be coded properly and force people to participate that want more out of the game. If implemented, it should offer more to those who participate than less.
I believe that PvP becomes repetitive, predictable, lack-luster, un-immersive, and plainly not fun or contributory to game-play if they just add an invitational switch that can be will-nilly turned on or off and/ or were to just stick with arenas.
Was there a lot of bad things done with PvP in the past? Yes. Did many people burn themselves and had to deal with 12 year old kids with nothing better to do than being annoying and wanting to ruin someone’s day. YES….all of this happened not because of PvP…all of this happened because games weren’t designed to support a PvP system. Games have evolved to blend in a greater degree of PvP in a broader sense rather than dumbing it down.
One thing to keep in mind is that in any game that involves PvP there will ALWAYS be winners and losers. Nobody likes to be a loser but not everyone can be a winner. It is unfortunate but necessary…otherwise we are creating a game like “Sims”. The system simply needs to be in place to contribute to immersive logic, suspense, accountability, unpredictability, risks and rewards for actions, provide purpose to actions, enhance role-playing, and give people opportunity to regain what they lost in painless, relatively quick and FUN way….Its a huge benefit to community through the stimulation of player interaction rather than computer controlled code forcing players into a very narrow and mundane style of game-play.
Personally, I think the easiest way to do this would be to just make differing degrees of PvP servers. You figure most games have Role playing, and PvE options. In the case of WoW, there's PvP, PvE, and Role playing. Why not just make it so that there's more dynamic choices?
For example, I hate to say it, but Diablo 2 had the regular, and then the hardcore modes. So, for example, make a standard PvP (consensual/factional/carebear/whatever the hell you wanna call it), make a hardcore PvP (permadeath maybe), make an unlimited PvP (anytime, anywhere, etc) and an elitist PvP (anytime, anywhere, loot your victims, etc).
I mean, that way, even if one side of the game is particularly unfair, you'd only have to have 1 server dedicated to that style of gameplay. If people tended to favor a specific side, the devs could focus more of their time with that population, while not damaging the other player's gameplay. It would give the players their choice for their style, while allowing all types of players to get in on the same game.
I dunno, that would seem to be the easiest way to appease everyone to me...
Waiting for something fresh to arrive on the MMO scene...
One thing to keep in mind is that in any game that involves PvP there will ALWAYS be winners and losers. Nobody likes to be a loser but not everyone can be a winner. It is unfortunate but necessary…otherwise we are creating a game like “Sims”. The system simply needs to be in place to contribute to immersive logic, suspense, accountability, unpredictability, risks and rewards for actions, provide purpose to actions, enhance role-playing, and give people opportunity to regain what they lost in painless, relatively quick and FUN way….Its a huge benefit to community through the stimulation of player interaction rather than computer controlled code forcing players into a very narrow and mundane style of game-play.
In your view there are by far more losers then winners, games need money from the losers to keep there game up and running, how long will you pay for a game that you are a loser?
Originally posted by Luzario Consensual PVP allows cowardice to go rampant.Let us take World of Peacecraft err I mean warcraft for instance. This is a game where no one can be punished. A game where someone can mouth off at you and you can do nothing about it. You cannot defend your honor in this game and you have absolutely no control over anything. It is not "your" game it is "Blizzards" game and you can go on "their" ride but it won't ever be "your" journey. Mmmorpgs like Everquest & Star wars galaxies encourage players to "hide" behind an invisible wall of protection allowing them to be greedy & selfish thus destroying the community. In mmorpgs I am considered the "Wolf" ... I prey on the "Sheep", if "Wolves" get in the way of my sheep then I'll kill those "Wolves", I don't expect non-veterans to understand this. In a game where everyone is a sheep and there are no wolves you're gonna have gay sheep running around all day thinking they are all that when they are realy not.Long live the old days of MMORPGs. These are the generations:1st generation MMORPGS: Barbaric & Ultra Violent (UO, Meridian 59, muds, shadowbane, ac darktide)2nd generation MMORPGS: Civilized & Peaceful (WOW, EQ, DAOC, SWG, lineage, etc)3rd Generation: Has not dawned upon us yet. Hopefuly companies will see the light that players need to be challenged with unexpected dangers (think about it).Luzario
SWG had this when BH could hunt jedi. SWG is so dumbed down now, even my dog refuses to play it.
"I'm not a racist...I only hate stupid people..."-SinisterCB
Consensual PVP allows cowardice to go rampant.Let us take World of Peacecraft err I mean warcraft for instance. This is a game where no one can be punished. A game where someone can mouth off at you and you can do nothing about it. You cannot defend your honor in this game and you have absolutely no control over anything. It is not "your" game it is "Blizzards" game and you can go on "their" ride but it won't ever be "your" journey. Mmmorpgs like Everquest & Star wars galaxies encourage players to "hide" behind an invisible wall of protection allowing them to be greedy & selfish thus destroying the community. In mmorpgs I am considered the "Wolf" ... I prey on the "Sheep", if "Wolves" get in the way of my sheep then I'll kill those "Wolves", I don't expect non-veterans to understand this. In a game where everyone is a sheep and there are no wolves you're gonna have gay sheep running around all day thinking they are all that when they are realy not.Long live the old days of MMORPGs. These are the generations:1st generation MMORPGS: Barbaric & Ultra Violent (UO, Meridian 59, muds, shadowbane, ac darktide)2nd generation MMORPGS: Civilized & Peaceful (WOW, EQ, DAOC, SWG, lineage, etc)3rd Generation: Has not dawned upon us yet. Hopefuly companies will see the light that players need to be challenged with unexpected dangers (think about it).Luzario
SWG had this when BH could hunt jedi. SWG is so dumbed down now, even my dog refuses to play it.
ok dude ... your taking the game waaay to seriously ... punishing people for mouthing off? LOL
i have found in my experience .... that laughing at the little kiddies with big mouths is a better bet ...no reason to get your panties in a wad cuz someone makes fun of ya bro ...
Let us take World of Peacecraft err I mean warcraft for instance. This is a game where no one can be punished. A game where someone can mouth off at you and you can do nothing about it. You cannot defend your honor in this game and you have absolutely no control over anything. It is not "your" game it is "Blizzards" game and you can go on "their" ride but it won't ever be "your" journey. Mmmorpgs like Everquest & Star wars galaxies encourage players to "hide" behind an invisible wall of protection allowing them to be greedy & selfish thus destroying the community.
In mmorpgs I am considered the "Wolf" ... I prey on the "Sheep", if "Wolves" get in the way of my sheep then I'll kill those "Wolves", I don't expect non-veterans to understand this. In a game where everyone is a sheep and there are no wolves you're gonna have gay sheep running around all day thinking they are all that when they are realy not.
Long live the old days of MMORPGs.
These are the generations:
1st generation MMORPGS: Barbaric & Ultra Violent (UO, Meridian 59, muds, shadowbane, ac darktide)
3rd Generation: Has not dawned upon us yet. Hopefuly companies will see the light that players need to be challenged with unexpected dangers (think about it).
Luzario
What Luzario is really saying:
A game where nobody can be griefed. You cannot grief other players in this game. Games like SWG and Everquest protect players from griefers. Instead they encourage players to play the game without being bothered by little griefers running around trying to cause as many problems for other as possible. The allow players to hide behind an invisible wall protecting them from getting all their stuff robbed by griefers..
In mmorpgs I am considered the main griefer. I prey on the sheep causing them as much trouble as possible. I don't expect other players to understand this because they won't be playing in the same mmorpg as I am.
====================== It's just me, so open the door.
A game where nobody can be griefed. You cannot grief other players in this game. Games like SWG and Everquest protect players from griefers. Instead they encourage players to play the game without being bothered by little griefers running around trying to cause as many problems for other as possible. The allow players to hide behind an invisible wall protecting them from getting all their stuff robbed by griefers..
In mmorpgs I am considered the main griefer. I prey on the sheep causing them as much trouble as possible. I don't expect other players to understand this because they won't be playing in the same mmorpg as I am.
I think this whole situation is very simple. With open PvP comes the abuse. Plan and simple. There is no denying it. There is no way to ignore it. People can say all the way how they aren't like that but for every person like that there are at least 5 more or more that are or others that are forced to abuse things after being abused by the system themselves. It has nothing to do with cowardice.
These games are item based. Where is the skill in killing another player simply because you have better armor or weapons? Or because you are a few levels higher? Or because you have more people with you? There is no skill. Sure you might feel an excitement but don't be fooled into thinking everyone feels that way when preyed upon. People are paying money to play these games. As such they have every right to decide if they want to take part in a certain type of play.
I like PvP as much as the next person. I'm sure everyone at one point in time has been interested in it but under the right setup. Which is why I feel structured PvP is the only way to go. There is going to be abuse of a system no matter want and the only way open PvP will truely work is if everyone playing agrees not to abuse things but we know that will never, ever happen. Faction based games such as Anarchy Online, Dark Age of Camelot, World of Warcarft is the best option. The average person is selfish, they want to enjoy themselves, pkers more so then the average person I feel. Since they know full well that their actions are causing people grief and frustration. Which is why when given the choice, people will take the non-Pvp section (why Trammel has so many players in Ultima Online) or will decide to take part in PvP if it's seperate from the PvE (DAoC or AO). At least this is one of the things devs have listend to players about and at least understand.
Look at Shadowbane. That should have been a PvP players dream but from what I understand the actions of PKers and bugs drove people away from that game. Yes it was an Open PvP game but players abused it and now the game and remaining players are suffering from these past actions. They were given their chance and option but it didn't do so well. That should send a message I think. The fact that people made Trammel their home when given the actual option of open PvP and non-PvP should also send a message. It's about choice and how a person wants to spend their time I feel. Not because they are scared to PvP but because they most likely don't want to deal with the frustration (caused by people that abuse the systems and turn people off from PvP who might have been interested in it) when they sit down to play a game for fun, to relax from their daily grind at work or school.
There needs to be balance and that is why I like WoW's system. They have PvP servers where you can be killed on sight in more advanced zones and PvE servers where you can sample just about everything in the game without fear of being jumped and killed.
I think the way WoW offers different ruleset servers should and hopefully will become the industry standard. Just because you play an MMO doesn't mean you should automatically be subjected to hackers who are just out to harass you.
Comments
LOL.
Just reading this thread quickly it soon becomes blaitant who are the supporters of ffa pvp . Not by what they write but their general attitude and demenour lol.
Like the tard who thinks killing (HA!) a character in a G A M E makes him a big man and a toughy ..woooooooOOooOO scarey bad man we worship you in fear. This whole argument is like arguing that watching films on a tv instead of a cinema screen is carebear.
G A M E S A R E M E N T T O B E F U N !
If having someone else pay to play a game and then forcing them to take part in something they dont want to = fun in your trailer park then thats your hangup. You want PKing then go join the army ya invertebrate.
Stop spouting yer crap about how tough you are and how you could have NO life and sit by a corpse and wait to re kill the player who you decided to bully or what ever. Yes yes we all agree thats so tough and brave. /sarc
Really get a life man. Pressing a key on a keyboard isnt remotely tough and skillfull tbh.
Living life like an adult and growing up, now thats a little tougher.
The people that hate PvP so much because it will hurt their
powergamer schedule, or even their pride that their character isn't a big hero,
and on the other side, those players who want to be able to kill anyone
anywhere with no lasting consequences.
In a more PvP environment where there is player interaction
against players, the gaming environment become more dynamic. More alive, more
engaging. Communities of like minded
players flourish and gel more. There are
unclear distinctions between safety and danger…it’s a variant that shouldn’t be
hard-coded since the experience of a more open environment welcomes greater
role-play range and flexibility and game-play variety. Otherwise, games fall to becoming very
expensive and time-consuming graphic chat rooms.
Non-consensual PvP keeps the whole community awake. Evil roles should not be penalized and more
or less than choosing a good role. There
have got to be consequences and rewards for both.
Non-consensual conflict matters. It is what drives communities to rally to get
emotionally and intellectually involved.
It’s not about a fight between Hard-Core PKs or PvP enthusiasts or PvE
enthusiasts who think PvPers are out to get them…this issue is fundamental for
the gaming in general, the longevity of the game…the replayability,
immersiveness, unpredictability, suspenseful nature and contributes to the need
to come into and belong to a community – not to mention the stimulation and
progress in mmorpg gaming that it favors.
Most agree that nobody wants another EQ or AC because better
graphics is not what will keep people playing for long…good PvE will leave
people with a sickening sense of been there done that. Arena PvP serves no genuine game-play
value. In a climate like DAoC,
shadowbane, Lineage, SWG, Dragon Empires, Trials of Ascension, or Darkfall, PvP
does not have to be an afterthough with switches or arenas. It can be coded properly and force people to
participate that want more out of the game.
If implemented, it should offer more to those who participate than less.
I believe that PvP becomes repetitive, predictable,
lack-luster, un-immersive, and plainly not fun or contributory to game-play if
they just add an invitational switch that can be will-nilly turned on or off
and/ or were to just stick with arenas.
Was there a lot of bad things done with PvP in the past?
Yes. Did many people burn themselves and had to deal with 12 year old kids with
nothing better to do than being annoying and wanting to ruin someone’s day.
YES….all of this happened not because of PvP…all of this happened because games
weren’t designed to support a PvP system.
Games have evolved to blend in a greater degree of PvP in a broader
sense rather than dumbing it down.
One thing to keep in mind is that in any game that involves
PvP there will ALWAYS be winners and losers. Nobody likes to be a loser but not
everyone can be a winner. It is unfortunate but necessary…otherwise we are
creating a game like “Sims”. The system simply needs to be in place to
contribute to immersive logic, suspense, accountability, unpredictability,
risks and rewards for actions, provide purpose to actions, enhance
role-playing, and give people opportunity to regain what they lost in painless,
relatively quick and FUN way….Its a huge benefit to community through the
stimulation of player interaction rather than computer controlled code forcing
players into a very narrow and mundane style of game-play.
Personally, I think the easiest way to do this would be to just make differing degrees of PvP servers. You figure most games have Role playing, and PvE options. In the case of WoW, there's PvP, PvE, and Role playing. Why not just make it so that there's more dynamic choices?
For example, I hate to say it, but Diablo 2 had the regular, and then the hardcore modes. So, for example, make a standard PvP (consensual/factional/carebear/whatever the hell you wanna call it), make a hardcore PvP (permadeath maybe), make an unlimited PvP (anytime, anywhere, etc) and an elitist PvP (anytime, anywhere, loot your victims, etc).
I mean, that way, even if one side of the game is particularly unfair, you'd only have to have 1 server dedicated to that style of gameplay. If people tended to favor a specific side, the devs could focus more of their time with that population, while not damaging the other player's gameplay. It would give the players their choice for their style, while allowing all types of players to get in on the same game.
I dunno, that would seem to be the easiest way to appease everyone to me...
Waiting for something fresh to arrive on the MMO scene...
/sit
/camp
/uninstall
There, I just solved the problem for everybody.
---
I ask for so little. Just fear me, love me, do as I say and I will be your slave.
SWG had this when BH could hunt jedi. SWG is so dumbed down now, even my dog refuses to play it.
"I'm not a racist...I only hate stupid people..."-SinisterCB
SWG had this when BH could hunt jedi. SWG is so dumbed down now, even my dog refuses to play it.
That's a smart puppy.
ok dude ... your taking the game waaay to seriously ... punishing people for mouthing off? LOL
i have found in my experience .... that laughing at the little kiddies with big mouths is a better bet ...no reason to get your panties in a wad cuz someone makes fun of ya bro ...
A game where nobody can be griefed. You cannot grief other players in this game. Games like SWG and Everquest protect players from griefers. Instead they encourage players to play the game without being bothered by little griefers running around trying to cause as many problems for other as possible. The allow players to hide behind an invisible wall protecting them from getting all their stuff robbed by griefers..
In mmorpgs I am considered the main griefer. I prey on the sheep causing them as much trouble as possible. I don't expect other players to understand this because they won't be playing in the same mmorpg as I am.
======================
It's just me, so open the door.
What Luzario is really saying:
A game where nobody can be griefed. You cannot grief other players in this game. Games like SWG and Everquest protect players from griefers. Instead they encourage players to play the game without being bothered by little griefers running around trying to cause as many problems for other as possible. The allow players to hide behind an invisible wall protecting them from getting all their stuff robbed by griefers..
In mmorpgs I am considered the main griefer. I prey on the sheep causing them as much trouble as possible. I don't expect other players to understand this because they won't be playing in the same mmorpg as I am.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
LOL .. thats funny .. and makes a lot of sense when ya put it that way
Griefing griefers = griefer...ing?
Waiting for something fresh to arrive on the MMO scene...
I think this whole situation is very simple. With open PvP comes the abuse. Plan and simple. There is no denying it. There is no way to ignore it. People can say all the way how they aren't like that but for every person like that there are at least 5 more or more that are or others that are forced to abuse things after being abused by the system themselves. It has nothing to do with cowardice.
These games are item based. Where is the skill in killing another player simply because you have better armor or weapons? Or because you are a few levels higher? Or because you have more people with you? There is no skill. Sure you might feel an excitement but don't be fooled into thinking everyone feels that way when preyed upon. People are paying money to play these games. As such they have every right to decide if they want to take part in a certain type of play.
I like PvP as much as the next person. I'm sure everyone at one point in time has been interested in it but under the right setup. Which is why I feel structured PvP is the only way to go. There is going to be abuse of a system no matter want and the only way open PvP will truely work is if everyone playing agrees not to abuse things but we know that will never, ever happen. Faction based games such as Anarchy Online, Dark Age of Camelot, World of Warcarft is the best option. The average person is selfish, they want to enjoy themselves, pkers more so then the average person I feel. Since they know full well that their actions are causing people grief and frustration. Which is why when given the choice, people will take the non-Pvp section (why Trammel has so many players in Ultima Online) or will decide to take part in PvP if it's seperate from the PvE (DAoC or AO). At least this is one of the things devs have listend to players about and at least understand.
Look at Shadowbane. That should have been a PvP players dream but from what I understand the actions of PKers and bugs drove people away from that game. Yes it was an Open PvP game but players abused it and now the game and remaining players are suffering from these past actions. They were given their chance and option but it didn't do so well. That should send a message I think. The fact that people made Trammel their home when given the actual option of open PvP and non-PvP should also send a message. It's about choice and how a person wants to spend their time I feel. Not because they are scared to PvP but because they most likely don't want to deal with the frustration (caused by people that abuse the systems and turn people off from PvP who might have been interested in it) when they sit down to play a game for fun, to relax from their daily grind at work or school.
There needs to be balance and that is why I like WoW's system. They have PvP servers where you can be killed on sight in more advanced zones and PvE servers where you can sample just about everything in the game without fear of being jumped and killed.
I think the way WoW offers different ruleset servers should and hopefully will become the industry standard. Just because you play an MMO doesn't mean you should automatically be subjected to hackers who are just out to harass you.