I love how people have ot post over and over again how they now hate the game and arent going to buy it, stop posting the same crap over and over again.
May Fool's Day? hahaha...a bright future for this game has suddenly turned a bit darker. I can see SOE eventually taking over (like it did for SWG) and then in comes the "upgrades" that turn Vanguard into EQ3. lol...*sobs*
Originally posted by teakbois Wow, are you people all blind? SOE has one major blemish on its record, and its not even known how much of it was their fault. Lucas Arts was pressuring SOE to make changes...
SOE has already publicly stated that Lucas Arts gave them full license to do the NGE alterations. There was no LA pressure (or, if there was, SOE took the full responsibility upon themselves).
However, if you add up the facts that they've systematically dismantled and crippled an ahead-of-its-time MMO over three years, provided really crappy customer service, and continually/tragically misjudged the MMO market -- how does all that add up to their association with V:SoH actually being a good thing?
Even if they have no power to effect the design of the game (we'll see how long that lasts), they are still making money in some fashion off the subs, and I will not support SOE in any way, shape or form.
-------------------------------------------------------------------- As ye SOE, so shall ye weep.
Flawless? Since when? SWG has been buggy since day 1 there are still bugs in that game that have been there since Beta I was hoping to play this game, but even if it is for marketing purposes, SOE will not get one red cent of my money ever again. So no I will not play this game now.
i'm glad of the change myself i like SOE , i hate the road that swg took and don't blame anyone being mad about it. But this is vanguard not swg and with less involvement from soe. I am still going to play vanguard looks to be good
Originally posted by WoodenDummy Originally posted by Saerain Originally posted by Phoenixs Nooo Vanguard: Soh: NGE here we come
Guys, SOE is not making Vanguard, nor are they buying it. Chill out.
Too many people are not understanding this relationship. It looks silly on you. I think the people who look silly are the ones that think everything we are told is the always the whole truth, the fact is that business changes everyday and what is said here today could be a utterly different story 6 months into the game.
Because we are told here and now that SOE has very limited input into the game has little to do with what could happen a year into the game, for some people SOE having anything to do with this game feels so wrong on so many levels.
Very well said, Wooden. I was looking forward to Vanguard, up until this bit of news was released. Guess i'll be waiting for Warhammer Online.
In War - Victory. In Peace - Vigilance. In Death - Sacrifice.
I see this as a good thing. What does SOE have more experience doing than any other company? Setting up massively multiplayer game servers. And theirs work. I wouldn't let Blizzard set my game servers up if they paid me. According to a bunch of posts by Aradune Mithara (Brad McQuaid) on the Vanguard forums, Sigil will actually gain some control from this move. Let's look at this objectively, though...
First, what is Microsoft's track record with MMOs? Bad, real bad. They've cancelled a number of them before they came out, and have only actually been involved in the launch of what, two? One of which is now gone (AC2). MS loves getting its hands on an MMO, but it's scared shitless of releasing one.
Why would Sigil part ways with MS? Most likely, because they had differing views on the direction of the game. Microsoft sees WoW gain massive subscription numbers. Vanguard is the polar opposite of WoW in the genre. Crap, we better make this more like WoW. Of course, that's the worst idea you could possibly have, because WoW owns the casual MMO market right now, and you'd just get stomped under the weight of it.
Sigil knows this, but does MGS (Microsoft Game Studios)? Some of them surely do, but I doubt the wigs have a clue. They get pissed that SGO (Sigil Games Online) won't capitulate, and start laying down the threats. Change the game or we walk. Brad, being quite charismatic, convinces them to let him buy the game back. Uh oh, they still need a way to publish the damn thing. Well, there are a few options there, and SOE is one of the best of them.
Further, for those who are saying SOE is going to screw up the game... From the release:
"As co-publisher of Vanguard: Saga of Heroes, Sigil assumes greater control of marketing and PR, while maintaining responsibility for game development, community relations, media relations, customer support, and quality assurance. Under the terms of the agreement, SOE will provide distribution, marketing, hosting and back-end support -- including billing and technical support -- for the game."
So all SOE is doing is distributing the game, marketing the game, hosting the game, and giving it back-end support (billing and tech). All of which they do well, although I've seen complaints about tech support but never had to use it because I'm not a noob. Sigil retains development control, some marketing, PR, community relations, media relations, CS, and QA.
The way I see it, SOE saved Sigil's ass. Sigil needed a publisher, and there aren't many MMO publishers worth their salt in the industry. Lucky for Sigil, SOE was willing to forgive all the BS Brad has said over the years (saying their games suck, saying their ideas suck, etc.) and welcomed him into their publishing umbrella in the interest of good business, and we still get to see Vanguard the way it was intended to be made rather than the way MGS wanted it made.
I'm sorry but all you people complaining and saying you will not get this now b/c Soe is CO-PUBLISHING are just being big cry babbies. I can understand you people being upset and swearing you won't play another SOE game. BUT THIS IS NOT AN SOE GAME, it's a SIGIL game that SOE is PUBLISHING. I honestly fail to see why you can't make that distinction.
The fact of the matter is Sigil is retaining ALL development rights. SOE has nothing to do with anything that goes into the game, they are just there to distribute, market and help support the game, that's it. If you would read the press release, and even more importantly, what Brad himself has said on the forums you will realise that Sigil will not let SOE get control.
Another thing, do you honestly think this game was in good hands with Microsoft???? IMO, MS is the bane of MMO's. Just look at how many MMO's they pulled support from in a late stage of development or allowed to flounder and eventually die, there's Mythica, True Fantasy Online, Asheron's Call and Asherons Call 2. Come on people, it's obvious what happened here, MS was pushing Sigil to do things they didn't want to do like developing Vangaurd for XBOX 360 first and foremost, as well as dumbing it down and all that. MS wasn't getting thier way and were probably threatening, or already had pulled support and funding and Sigil had to do what they could to ensure that Vangaurd stayed in line with thier vision. Honestly people, stop with the knee jerk reactions and think a little, Brad is familair with SOE and now has experience with MS. He obviously isn't going to let anyone interfere and ruin his vision for the game.
If you were looking forward to this game and now won't give it a chance b/c of SOE then all you are doing is biting off your nose to spite your face. You should judge a game on it's merits and not who is PUBLISHING it.
edit: EVERYONE READING THIS THREAD AND COMPLAINING ABOUT SOE AND WHAT"S GOING TO HAPPEN FROM HERE ON OUT NEEDS TO READ THIS , sorry about caps but it's important that that gets read. It's the Sigil teams comments in the thread about this on the Vangaurd forums. I know it got rid of any fears I had about the future of Vangaurd
back on topic.. co-publisher is enough involvement for me to know I won't buy this game now. I will not send SOE one red cent. I will not play a game they have any input in or association with. I flatly refuse to let SOE have access to my credit card again. i don't go to their website and i don't buy their shit. If i can play vanguard without Sony getting any money, or my credit card number, or having any of their shitty station software on my machine.. i would consider it.
It isn't vanguard bashing bashing... it's SOE bashing. To be fair, i won't play Gods and Heroes either. I wouldn't piss on Smed to put him out if he was on fire. I certainly wont play a game that has any of his stink on it.
Originally posted by teddyboy420 I'm sorry but all you people complaining and saying you will not get this now b/c Soe is CO-PUBLISHING are just being big cry babbies. I can understand you people being upset and swearing you won't play another SOE game. BUT THIS IS NOT AN SOE GAME, it's a SIGIL game that SOE is PUBLISHING. I honestly fail to see why you can't make that distinction.
The fact of the matter is Sigil is retaining ALL development rights. SOE has nothing to do with anything that goes into the game, they are just there to distribute, market and help support the game, that's it. If you would read the press release, and even more importantly, what Brad himself has said on the forums you will realise that Sigil will not let SOE get control.
Another thing, do you honestly think this game was in good hands with Microsoft???? IMO, MS is the bane of MMO's. Just look at how many MMO's they pulled support from in a late stage of development or allowed to flounder and eventually die, there's Mythica, True Fantasy Online, Asheron's Call and Asherons Call 2. Come on people, it's obvious what happened here, MS was pushing Sigil to do things they didn't want to do like developing Vangaurd for XBOX 360 first and foremost, as well as dumbing it down and all that. MS wasn't getting thier way and were probably threatening, or already had pulled support and funding and Sigil had to do what they could to ensure that Vangaurd stayed in line with thier vision. Honestly people, stop with the knee jerk reactions and think a little, Brad is familair with SOE and now has experience with MS. He obviously isn't going to let anyone interfere and ruin his vision for the game.
If you were looking forward to this game and now won't give it a chance b/c of SOE then all you are doing is biting off your nose to spite your face. You should judge a game on it's merits and not who is PUBLISHING it.
edit: EVERYONE READING THIS THREAD AND COMPLAINING ABOUT SOE AND WHAT"S GOING TO HAPPEN FROM HERE ON OUT NEEDS TO READ THIS , sorry about caps but it's important that that gets read. It's the Sigil teams comments in the thread about this on the Vangaurd forums. I know it got rid of any fears I had about the future of Vangaurd
That's almost as crazy as saying. Even though company x uses sweat shops to produce their jeans. You should definately still buy from them. Even though you are opposed to the idea of supporting sweat shops. Because it's going to be a good product. The quality of the product isn't what is in question. Just the poor choice of a Co-publisher for their game.
Alot of people are tired of SOE and their bad business practices. Just because they aren't a full publisher we should buy their product anyway? No thanks, I like many others do not wish to any longer. Support, Fund, or Purchase anything that SOE has a hand in.
In War - Victory. In Peace - Vigilance. In Death - Sacrifice.
Originally posted by Lasastard Considering the bad reputation SOE has gained among the MMO community, this might not have been a very smart move from Sigil...
actually its probably a wash.
really the only people that are that upset with SOE are SWG players. And there really wasnt a lot of SWG players. Before CU even came around SWG was down about half of its subscribers. You also lose the occasional asshat that hates SOE because they think its the cool thing to do but really have no reason to. And there are some that think SOE screwed up EQ and again thats a very small group of people.
On the flipside is all the current EQ and EQ2 players that will likely give the game a try if its on station access. that will likely even out the score.
Originally posted by teakbois Originally posted by Lasastard Considering the bad reputation SOE has gained among the MMO community, this might not have been a very smart move from Sigil...
actually its probably a wash.
really the only people that are that upset with SOE are SWG players. And there really wasnt a lot of SWG players. Before CU even came around SWG was down about half of its subscribers. You also lose the occasional asshat that hates SOE because they think its the cool thing to do but really have no reason to. And there are some that think SOE screwed up EQ and again thats a very small group of people.
On the flipside is all the current EQ and EQ2 players that will likely give the game a try if its on station access. that will likely even out the score.
I could be wrong, but I thought they said that Vanguard will not be available on their station access?
Originally posted by osiloa Originally posted by teakbois
Originally posted by Lasastard Considering the bad reputation SOE has gained among the MMO community, this might not have been a very smart move from Sigil...
actually its probably a wash.
really the only people that are that upset with SOE are SWG players. And there really wasnt a lot of SWG players. Before CU even came around SWG was down about half of its subscribers. You also lose the occasional asshat that hates SOE because they think its the cool thing to do but really have no reason to. And there are some that think SOE screwed up EQ and again thats a very small group of people.
On the flipside is all the current EQ and EQ2 players that will likely give the game a try if its on station access. that will likely even out the score.
I could be wrong, but I thought they said that Vanguard will not be available on their station access?
Yeah your wrong it will be apart of Station Access so will the DC MMO.
Originally posted by zamian Originally posted by Saerain Originally posted by Phoenixs Nooo Vanguard: Soh: NGE here we come
Guys, SOE is not making Vanguard, nor are they buying it. Chill out.
Too many people are not understanding this relationship. It looks silly on you.
Nope they arent making it nor are they "Buying" Sigil out.. but what YOU Fail to realize is that SoE Will be providing Technical support, Server infrastructure. Marketing.. In game petitions etc.. i would presume.. Billing etc. etc.. Also once the Game is out.. SoE Can use ther Leverage to Persuade Sigil into developing content which they think would be more beneficial to what they think their customers want.
That is incorrect. Sigil will comprise the GMs/customer service. SOE will handle only technical support.
Originally posted by WoodenDummy
I think the people who look silly are the ones that think everything we are told is the always the whole truth, the fact is that business changes everyday and what is said here today could be a utterly different story 6 months into the game.
Because we are told here and now that SOE has very limited input into the game has little to do with what could happen a year into the game, for some people SOE having anything to do with this game feels so wrong on so many levels.
I hate SOE by default, as well. I panicked for about an hour before I came to actually understanding what it meant. But people are making things up, here, such as that SOE has a magical power to break contracts.
SOE has never overstepped their bounds, before. People are up in arms about games that they made or acquired. This is an entirely different situation. I understand concern, but jumping up and down with, 'Great, SOE is going to own Vanguard now!' is just knee-jerking. Reading comprehension helps to quell these things. The concerns come from a good direction, but they are irrational nonetheless.
SOE is not even responsible for all the activities of a full-fledged publisher (such as customer service), as they are co-publishing. Sigil is reponsible for everything we care about. SOE is handling marketing and distribution.
Certainly, this could change if Sigil's staff suddenly suffers dozens of fatal accidents at the hand of an SOE mafia.
Let's recapitulate: Sigil has just become the publisher of their own game. This is a tremendously good thing. However, SOE is responsible for the elements of publishing that Sigil knows it is not skilled in but SOE is: marketing and distribution.
Favorites: EQ, EVE | Playing: None. Mostly VR and strategy | Anticipating: CU, Pantheon
Originally posted by Stradden With E3 so close, gamers have to expect some surprises. What wasn't expected was that the first surprise would hapen so soon. Today, Sigil and Sony Online Entertainment announced that they were in talks to co-publish Sigil's Vanguard: Saga of Heroes.
VANGUARD: SAGA OF HEROES FINDS A NEW HOME VANGUARD: SAGA OF HEROES FINDS A NEW HOME
Sigil Games Online and Sony Online Entertainment In Talks To Co-Publish Sigil’s Ground-Breaking New Game Sigil Games Online and Sony Online Entertainment In Talks To Co-Publish Sigil’s Ground-Breaking New Game
May 5, 2006 – Carlsbad & San Diego, CA – Sigil Games Online and Sony Online Entertainment LLC (SOE), a global leader in the online games industry, today announced that Sigil is working with Microsoft Game Studios on an arrangement to acquire the rights to its highly anticipated massively multiplayer online (MMO) game, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes. These efforts have resulted in a tentative agreement for Vanguard to be co-published by both Sigil Games Online and SOE. All three companies will be showing the game at the upcoming Electronic Entertainment Expo (E3) as they work closely together for a successful transition. Vanguard: Saga of Heroes is scheduled to launch this winter. “As the development process is ongoing and constantly shifting, it became clear that MGS and Sigil had varying visions and direction for the title’s development,” said Brad McQuaid, CEO of Sigil Games Online. “In the best interest of Vanguard, it was decided that we would buy back the publishing rights from Microsoft.” As co-publisher of Vanguard: Saga of Heroes, Sigil assumes greater control of marketing and PR, while maintaining responsibility for game development, community relations, media relations, customer support, and quality assurance. Under the terms of the agreement, SOE will provide distribution, marketing, hosting and back-end support -- including billing and technical support -- for the game. Additionally, SOE is tentatively planning on adding Vanguard, upon its release, to SOE’s Station Access™ subscription plan. Station Access allows players to enjoy all of SOE’s MMO titles for one low monthly price. “We are very excited to be working with so many old friends at Sigil,” said John Smedley, president, Sony Online Entertainment. “Vanguard looks beautiful and has an incredibly rich game world. It’s the type of game that will appeal directly to SOE’s hundreds of thousands of players and should fit in perfectly with the current line-up of games available in Station Access.” ”This decision was made mutually by Sigil and Microsoft, in the best interest of the long-term goals for the title,” said Phil Spencer, General Manager at Microsoft Game Studios. “As a key Windows development partner, we will continue to work with Sigil to ensure Vanguard’s ongoing success.” Vanguard: Saga of Heroes is the next generation of massively multiplayer online games. The journey takes place in the fantasy setting of Telon, a vast and ancient world of magic, intrigue and adventure. Facing the challenges of a war torn world, the diverse people here struggle to rebuild their once great civilizations. A fragile alliance has been struck, with the lands set upon by invading forces, the races must band together to survive. Vanguard: Saga of Heroes is currently in a closed beta phase. The game will remain available via Fileplanet for existing beta testers during the transition to SOE. New information will be sent out to testers as the changeover occurs. For more information about Vanguard: Saga of Heroes please visit www.vanguardsoh.com. For more on Vanguard, click here.
No offense, but you people slay me. Many of you are going on about how SOE's customer service sucks, they are so horrible, blah blah blah... The way I see it they only made one major error and that was with SWG. While UO was pretty big, Everquest put mmorpgs on the map. That one game made everything that you see today possible. I think that it was a good choice for Sigil to go with this deal for two reasons.
1- Love them or hate them, SOE has a proven track record of getting their product on the shelves in a variety of stores and are also great at advertising. Microsoft...hmm... let see AC 2, well lets just say that the distribution and advertising on that game was very short lived. AC 1 was a decent game and they ran that into the ground. 2- SOE's server technology is good and like Brad said, he is very used to it and it would be easier to work with. To use an example EQ 2 launched flawlessly and had no latency issues.(I was even on dial up at the time) WoW on the other hand had problems for months with latency and people were screaming on their forums about the situation.
Also all of you people who live in other countries keep this in mind. With the Asheron's Call series, there servers were all out of Washington due to it being co-ran by Microsoft at the time. SOE has localized servers. Localized= better latency.
As far as the customer service concerns go, please read the announcement again. It says - "As co-publisher of Vanguard: Saga of Heroes, Sigil assumes greater control of marketing and PR, while maintaining responsibility for game development, community relations, media relations, customer support, and quality assurance. So in other words GMs, CSR and any other customer support minus the billing and maybe the more technical hardware issues would all be handled by Sigil employees. I never ever had a single problem with SOE's billing system. Also any hardware questions were handled very fast, so I have no worries there.
Before all of you jump to any conclusions please go read the official FAQ where Brad answers many questions here - Sigil & SOE FAQ. The Silky Venom Dev tracker is also a good source of info here - Silky Venom Dev Tracker. Brad loves Vanguard and really does care about his fans. Like he said in one of his posts, the reason that he left SOE was because he got to the point where he was not able to make games any more due to him having higher duties at SOE. He started Sigil to get back to what he loves doing which is designing games. He will never ever get back in that situation again.
Brad has been very honest and has never done anything wrong to any of us, so his word is good enough for me. Not only that, but this deal gives Sigil absolute control over the development of the game which is always a good thing. No one can argue that.
Crap. I was looking forward to this game, now I won't have anything to do with it. It has nothing to do with how good the game is or is not. It has everything to do with SONY. I won't give them a dime. What they did to SWG is a tragedy and frankly, i don't trust them. They just didn't change SWG, they made an entirely new game and forced feed it to us -- like it or leave. What makes anyone think they wouldn't do it again. I can see it now:
"We need to make the game more heroy, more wowy -- to enhance the gameplay by just clicking on your target. People really don't want crafting or strategy in combat or reading -- heaven forbid, reading something. Just point, click and win -- that's what they want and we are giving it to you in the new Vanguard NGE..''
I'm never going to invest the hours I did in SWG in another SONY game just to have all that hard work destroyed. Sorry, I don't trust them and until an apology and rollback occurs with SWG, I won't give SONY any of my hard earned dollars. Sorry Vanguard. I wish you the best.
Comments
However, if you add up the facts that they've systematically dismantled and crippled an ahead-of-its-time MMO over three years, provided really crappy customer service, and continually/tragically misjudged the MMO market -- how does all that add up to their association with V:SoH actually being a good thing?
Even if they have no power to effect the design of the game (we'll see how long that lasts), they are still making money in some fashion off the subs, and I will not support SOE in any way, shape or form.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
As ye SOE, so shall ye weep.
Since when? SWG has been buggy since day 1 there are still bugs in that game that have been there since Beta
I was hoping to play this game, but even if it is for marketing purposes, SOE will not get one red cent of my money ever again. So no I will not play this game now.
I hope Sigil knows what they are doing.
Me, I have no hope left for SoE.
But if the game gets good words from players I might try it.
No need to 'attack' anyone until all the colors are shown.
I was going to try Vanguard. Now I will not. Simple as.
Too many people are not understanding this relationship. It looks silly on you.
I think the people who look silly are the ones that think everything we are told is the always the whole truth, the fact is that business changes everyday and what is said here today could be a utterly different story 6 months into the game.
Because we are told here and now that SOE has very limited input into the game has little to do with what could happen a year into the game, for some people SOE having anything to do with this game feels so wrong on so many levels.
Very well said, Wooden. I was looking forward to Vanguard, up until this bit of news was released. Guess i'll be waiting for Warhammer Online.
In War - Victory.
In Peace - Vigilance.
In Death - Sacrifice.
Just don't be sell-outs.. Then we will have a Great! product.
I see this as a good thing. What does SOE have more
experience doing than any other company? Setting up massively multiplayer game
servers. And theirs work. I wouldn't let Blizzard set my game servers up if
they paid me. According to a bunch of posts by Aradune Mithara (Brad McQuaid) on the Vanguard
forums, Sigil will actually gain some control from this move. Let's look at
this objectively, though...
First, what is Microsoft's track record with MMOs? Bad, real bad. They've
cancelled a number of them before they came out, and have only actually been
involved in the launch of what, two? One of which is now gone (AC2). MS loves
getting its hands on an MMO, but it's scared shitless of releasing one.
Why would Sigil part ways with MS? Most likely, because they had differing
views on the direction of the game. Microsoft sees WoW gain massive
subscription numbers. Vanguard is the polar opposite of WoW in the genre. Crap,
we better make this more like WoW. Of course, that's the worst idea you could
possibly have, because WoW owns the casual MMO market right now, and you'd just
get stomped under the weight of it.
Sigil knows this, but does MGS (Microsoft Game Studios)? Some of them surely
do, but I doubt the wigs have a clue. They get pissed that SGO (Sigil Games
Online) won't capitulate, and start laying down the threats. Change the game or
we walk. Brad, being quite charismatic, convinces them to let him buy the game
back. Uh oh, they still need a way to publish the damn thing. Well, there are a
few options there, and SOE is one of the best of them.
Further, for those who are saying SOE is going to screw up the game... From the
release:
"As co-publisher of Vanguard: Saga of Heroes, Sigil assumes greater
control of marketing and PR, while maintaining responsibility for game
development, community relations, media relations, customer support, and
quality assurance. Under the terms of the agreement, SOE will provide
distribution, marketing, hosting and back-end support -- including billing and
technical support -- for the game."
So all SOE is doing is distributing the game, marketing the game, hosting the
game, and giving it back-end support (billing and tech). All of which they do
well, although I've seen complaints about tech support but never had to use it
because I'm not a noob. Sigil retains development control, some marketing, PR,
community relations, media relations, CS, and QA.
The way I see it, SOE saved Sigil's ass. Sigil needed a publisher, and there
aren't many MMO publishers worth their salt in the industry. Lucky for Sigil,
SOE was willing to forgive all the BS Brad has said over the years (saying
their games suck, saying their ideas suck, etc.) and welcomed him into their
publishing umbrella in the interest of good business, and we still get to see
Vanguard the way it was intended to be made rather than the way MGS wanted it
made.
"Because it's easier to nitpick something than to be constructive." -roach5000
I'm sorry but all you people complaining and saying you will not get this now b/c Soe is CO-PUBLISHING are just being big cry babbies. I can understand you people being upset and swearing you won't play
another SOE game. BUT THIS IS NOT AN SOE GAME, it's a SIGIL game that
SOE is PUBLISHING. I honestly fail to see why you can't make that
distinction.
The fact of the matter is Sigil is retaining ALL development rights. SOE has nothing to do with anything that goes into the game, they are just there to distribute, market and help support the game, that's it. If you would read the press release, and even more importantly, what Brad himself has said on the forums you will realise that Sigil will not let SOE get control.
Another thing, do you honestly think this game was in good hands with Microsoft???? IMO, MS is the bane of MMO's. Just look at how many MMO's they pulled support from in a late stage of development or allowed to flounder and eventually die, there's Mythica, True Fantasy Online, Asheron's Call and Asherons Call 2. Come on people, it's obvious what happened here, MS was pushing Sigil to do things they didn't want to do like developing Vangaurd for XBOX 360 first and foremost, as well as dumbing it down and all that. MS wasn't getting thier way and were probably threatening, or already had pulled support and funding and Sigil had to do what they could to ensure that Vangaurd stayed in line with thier vision. Honestly people, stop with the knee jerk reactions and think a little, Brad is familair with SOE and now has experience with MS. He obviously isn't going to let anyone interfere and ruin his vision for the game.
If you were looking forward to this game and now won't give it a chance b/c of SOE then all you are doing is biting off your nose to spite your face. You should judge a game on it's merits and not who is PUBLISHING it.
edit: EVERYONE READING THIS THREAD AND COMPLAINING ABOUT SOE AND WHAT"S GOING TO HAPPEN FROM HERE ON OUT NEEDS TO READ THIS , sorry about caps but it's important that that gets read. It's the Sigil teams comments in the thread about this on the Vangaurd forums. I know it got rid of any fears I had about the future of Vangaurd
How can you bite your own nose off?
back on topic.. co-publisher is enough involvement for me to know I won't buy this game now. I will not send SOE one red cent. I will not play a game they have any input in or association with. I flatly refuse to let SOE have access to my credit card again. i don't go to their website and i don't buy their shit. If i can play vanguard without Sony getting any money, or my credit card number, or having any of their shitty station software on my machine.. i would consider it.
It isn't vanguard bashing bashing... it's SOE bashing. To be fair, i won't play Gods and Heroes either. I wouldn't piss on Smed to put him out if he was on fire. I certainly wont play a game that has any of his stink on it.
-----Zero Punctuation Eve Online Review-----
Alot of people are tired of SOE and their bad business practices. Just because they aren't a full publisher we should buy their product anyway? No thanks, I like many others do not wish to any longer. Support, Fund, or Purchase anything that SOE has a hand in.
In War - Victory.
In Peace - Vigilance.
In Death - Sacrifice.
I cannot claim credit for this as another poster on another forum used it first but
quote
Proverbs 26:11 As a dog returneth to his vomit, so a fool returneth to his folly.
/quote
I miss DAoC
actually its probably a wash.
really the only people that are that upset with SOE are SWG players. And there really wasnt a lot of SWG players. Before CU even came around SWG was down about half of its subscribers. You also lose the occasional asshat that hates SOE because they think its the cool thing to do but really have no reason to. And there are some that think SOE screwed up EQ and again thats a very small group of people.
On the flipside is all the current EQ and EQ2 players that will likely give the game a try if its on station access. that will likely even out the score.
actually its probably a wash.
really the only people that are that upset with SOE are SWG players. And there really wasnt a lot of SWG players. Before CU even came around SWG was down about half of its subscribers. You also lose the occasional asshat that hates SOE because they think its the cool thing to do but really have no reason to. And there are some that think SOE screwed up EQ and again thats a very small group of people.
On the flipside is all the current EQ and EQ2 players that will likely give the game a try if its on station access. that will likely even out the score.
I could be wrong, but I thought they said that Vanguard will not be available on their station access?
actually its probably a wash.
really the only people that are that upset with SOE are SWG players. And there really wasnt a lot of SWG players. Before CU even came around SWG was down about half of its subscribers. You also lose the occasional asshat that hates SOE because they think its the cool thing to do but really have no reason to. And there are some that think SOE screwed up EQ and again thats a very small group of people.
On the flipside is all the current EQ and EQ2 players that will likely give the game a try if its on station access. that will likely even out the score.
I could be wrong, but I thought they said that Vanguard will not be available on their station access?
Yeah your wrong it will be apart of Station Access so will the DC MMO.
I still think this is a terrible move on sigil part and I for one will have no part of it now.
I'm a big ol' fluffy carewolf. Be afraid. Be very afraid.
Too many people are not understanding this relationship. It looks silly on you.
Nope they arent making it nor are they "Buying" Sigil out.. but what YOU Fail to realize is that SoE Will be providing Technical support, Server infrastructure. Marketing.. In game petitions etc.. i would presume.. Billing etc. etc.. Also once the Game is out.. SoE Can use ther Leverage to Persuade Sigil into developing content which they think would be more beneficial to what they think their customers want.
That is incorrect. Sigil will comprise the GMs/customer service. SOE will handle only technical support.
I hate SOE by default, as well. I panicked for about an hour before I came to actually understanding what it meant. But people are making things up, here, such as that SOE has a magical power to break contracts.
SOE has never overstepped their bounds, before. People are up in arms about games that they made or acquired. This is an entirely different situation. I understand concern, but jumping up and down with, 'Great, SOE is going to own Vanguard now!' is just knee-jerking. Reading comprehension helps to quell these things. The concerns come from a good direction, but they are irrational nonetheless.
SOE is not even responsible for all the activities of a full-fledged publisher (such as customer service), as they are co-publishing. Sigil is reponsible for everything we care about. SOE is handling marketing and distribution.
Certainly, this could change if Sigil's staff suddenly suffers dozens of fatal accidents at the hand of an SOE mafia.
Let's recapitulate: Sigil has just become the publisher of their own game. This is a tremendously good thing. However, SOE is responsible for the elements of publishing that Sigil knows it is not skilled in but SOE is: marketing and distribution.
No offense, but you people slay me. Many of you are going on about how SOE's customer service sucks, they are so horrible, blah blah blah... The way I see it they only made one major error and that was with SWG. While UO was pretty big, Everquest put mmorpgs on the map. That one game made everything that you see today possible. I think that it was a good choice for Sigil to go with this deal for two reasons.
1- Love them or hate them, SOE has a proven track record of getting their product on the shelves in a variety of stores and are also great at advertising. Microsoft...hmm... let see AC 2, well lets just say that the distribution and advertising on that game was very short lived. AC 1 was a decent game and they ran that into the ground. 2- SOE's server technology is good and like Brad said, he is very used to it and it would be easier to work with. To use an example EQ 2 launched flawlessly and had no latency issues.(I was even on dial up at the time) WoW on the other hand had problems for months with latency and people were screaming on their forums about the situation.
Also all of you people who live in other countries keep this in mind. With the Asheron's Call series, there servers were all out of Washington due to it being co-ran by Microsoft at the time. SOE has localized servers. Localized= better latency.
As far as the customer service concerns go, please read the announcement again. It says - "As co-publisher of Vanguard: Saga of Heroes, Sigil assumes greater control of marketing and PR, while maintaining responsibility for game development, community relations, media relations, customer support, and quality assurance. So in other words GMs, CSR and any other customer support minus the billing and maybe the more technical hardware issues would all be handled by Sigil employees. I never ever had a single problem with SOE's billing system. Also any hardware questions were handled very fast, so I have no worries there.
Before all of you jump to any conclusions please go read the official FAQ where Brad answers many questions here - Sigil & SOE FAQ. The Silky Venom Dev tracker is also a good source of info here - Silky Venom Dev Tracker. Brad loves Vanguard and really does care about his fans. Like he said in one of his posts, the reason that he left SOE was because he got to the point where he was not able to make games any more due to him having higher duties at SOE. He started Sigil to get back to what he loves doing which is designing games. He will never ever get back in that situation again.
Brad has been very honest and has never done anything wrong to any of us, so his word is good enough for me. Not only that, but this deal gives Sigil absolute control over the development of the game which is always a good thing. No one can argue that.
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
Crap. I was looking forward to this game, now I won't have anything to do with it. It has nothing to do with how good the game is or is not. It has everything to do with SONY. I won't give them a dime. What they did to SWG is a tragedy and frankly, i don't trust them. They just didn't change SWG, they made an entirely new game and forced feed it to us -- like it or leave. What makes anyone think they wouldn't do it again. I can see it now:
"We need to make the game more heroy, more wowy -- to enhance the gameplay by just clicking on your target. People really don't want crafting or strategy in combat or reading -- heaven forbid, reading something. Just point, click and win -- that's what they want and we are giving it to you in the new Vanguard NGE..''
I'm never going to invest the hours I did in SWG in another SONY game just to have all that hard work destroyed. Sorry, I don't trust them and until an apology and rollback occurs with SWG, I won't give SONY any of my hard earned dollars. Sorry Vanguard. I wish you the best.