Originally posted by T_ke Originally posted by HiGHPLaiNS You folks will learn soon enough from SOE. Despite your feelings and since you folks dont give a hoot about the current situtation of things, Vanguard DID lose a substantial amount that would of played the game if SOE had not stamped there name on it. In other worlds, It will be just another Everquest since Sony has a Great Reputation in the MMORPG community.
I would suggest that those people think about it twice. SOE has nothing to say about the game. They only will provide servers, distribution and station login. The game stays Sigil and if you don't want to pay soe then pay sigil.
But why complain, more room for those that will play the game
But why complain, more room for those that will play the game..
Hey, why is the POP still low on our server? Go Figure..
Like I said before .. Everquest 2 .. Has one of the BEST MMORPG graphics IMO. But why is'nt this a #1 MMORPG .. Hmm is it Gameplay? Is it the Graphics? or is it because its got the 3 Letter Word attached?
This Vanguard game will have subscribers, but it isnt gonna be the Big One, just the fans that wanna say, I TOLD YOU THIS GAME WILL ROCK.. This game could be the best out there, but hate to break the news to you, its got SOE tied to it, so it wont be the best thats a negative.
Do you know how DIFFERENT this game would of turned out without SOE interferance?
SOE doesnt have anything NEW coming out, but since they are sleeping with Sigil again, they got something NEW to go agaist all the other MMO's that will be coming out this year and next.
Good move on their part, cause SOE doesnt have the best name in the Biz Right Now and there current titles arent impressive anymore.
But I will see you folks on either AoC or Warhammer when you tire of ole Sigil Vanguard Dream
Originally posted by Vengeful I'm confused as to why you continue to post if you don't want anything to do with Vanguard. Do you feel as though you have some sort of obligation to the community? Do you have some warriors call to fight the good fight? Or does it please you to spew bile all over every forum you get access to?
The very nature of a forum is to discuss. You can even discuss politics without being the president yourself.
You can also discuss gameissues without owning the game, limiting you tho (not able to talk about ingame related issues without playing the game).
Or in SoE's CSR manner: "We do understand your issue with Shayde. Unfortunatly there is nothing we can do since this is a public forum. It might help changing your graphiccard to avoid reading Shayde's postings. It might also help to turn the brightness of your monitor down. In special cases it also helped to turn off your computer. Thank you for choosing ..blablablabla"
Originally posted by Vengeful I'm confused as to why you continue to post if you don't want anything to do with Vanguard. Do you feel as though you have some sort of obligation to the community? Do you have some warriors call to fight the good fight? Or does it please you to spew bile all over every forum you get access to?
The very nature of a forum is to discuss. You can even discuss politics without being the president yourself.
You can also discuss gameissues without owning the game, limiting you tho (not able to talk about ingame related issues without playing the game).
Or in SoE's CSR manner: "We do understand your issue with Shayde. Unfortunatly there is nothing we can do since this is a public forum. It might help changing your graphiccard to avoid reading Shayde's postings. It might also help to turn the brightness of your monitor down. In special cases it also helped to turn off your computer. Thank you for choosing ..blablablabla"
"The very nature of a forum is to discuss"
That is your first comment. Here is my answer to your first comment:
"The very nature of a discussion is to get ones facts right before the make themselves look a fool."
In 90%+ of your posts you have failed to follow that answer. That adds even less credibility to the idea of your continued posting on a game you say you 'hate' and 'refuse to play'.
And before I come across as harassing and disliking of ClaudeFR, due to my replies to his posts. I am not the above. I merely feel he is spreading mistruth about Vanguard and that needs to be corrected before it influences people.
I don't like SOE, but I don't think posting an E3 review of a game is really even worth a damn, in all honesty. Inf act, I can't remember the last time a game at E3 was ever labelled a "Hollow failure" or "an inferior title". Even the most lackluster titles receive praise these days. I'm in no way saying that a game at E3 can't be good, but I just think reviewers have become too soft for their own good these days.
I look at titles like Fable, Killzone, Everquest 2, and several other titles that were hyped up into oblivion in previous years, and turned out to be severely disappointing.
Besides, I think every MMO ever released has been hyped, to at least some extent. Not many, however, actually deliver worth a damn...
Waiting for something fresh to arrive on the MMO scene...
But what i do know is, that you have become active here shortly after the "Sigil/SoE Deal Earthquake". (Spell "damagecontrol").
I read your postings 100% pro Sigil. I read assumptions. I read hope. Not a single line of yours could be post outr of experience, since the game isnt released. Nothing you say is set in stone or even for real, just assumptions and hope.
You tell everyone -"reporting" out of experience with SoE- what unreal they are and what idiots (between the lines, i can read).
I think you are a troll and i think your previous post makes you even look pretty much dumb. You lack EVERY proof, you lack every reality, you lack everything backing up your ASSUMPTIONS and HOPE.
But you post like you where the one knowing everything and every other member here is dumb.
You are a troll, a classical troll, in complete denial. That makes you nothing more but an idiot.
Originally posted by ClaudeFR Holfeet, i dont know who you are and where you come from. But what i do know is, that you have become active here shortly after the "Sigil/SoE Deal Earthquake". (Spell "damagecontrol"). I read your postings 100% pro Sigil. I read assumptions. I read hope. Not a single line of yours could be post outr of experience, since the game isnt released. Nothing you say is set in stone or even for real, just assumptions and hope. You tell everyone -"reporting" out of experience with SoE- what unreal they are and what idiots (between the lines, i can read). I think you are a troll and i think your previous post makes you even look pretty much dumb. You lack EVERY proof, you lack every reality, you lack everything backing up your ASSUMPTIONS and HOPE. But you post like you where the one knowing everything and every other member here is dumb. You are a troll, a classical troll, in complete denial. That makes you nothing more but an idiot.
Well actually i am a long term member of the main Vanguard forums and I have read everything that Brad and his team have posted on the subject of the Sigil/SOE deal. I have read all this to understand the facts so that I can correct people, such as yourself, who do not understand the facts.
Calling someone a troll is a basic response to losing an argument/discussion. getting angry is a basic response to losing an argument/discussion. I have answered every single piece of misinformation, you have posted, with the truth and the only avenue you have left is to slander me as a troll that knows little of what he says.
In addition to my feelings about Vanguard and Sigil, I have played EQ, EQ2 and SWG. I have been let down by SOE in each game. EQ changed from a game I loved to a game that was nothing about what I wished from an MMO. EQ2 was a game I looked forward to. I saw a new EQ but the reality was a poor substitute. SWG had the most amazing community and I had many a friend there. Sadly SOE were less than on the ball with the game and its classes so I left. It was the game that I beleived had the most promise when i left WoW and was about to return until they announced the NGE.
So yes I have had my problems with SOE. I do not entirely trust them, but I do trust Sigil and I trust their reporting of the events that led into their deal with SOE. I believe the influence that SOE will have over Vanguard and understand that it is minimal. Before all tthis was announced I was as anti SOE as, perhaps, you are. I had vowed never to give them another penny of my own money. I refused to play EQ, even to keep up with friends. This deal made me think and I realised I was being irrational, though much of it was to do with being desperate to play Vanguard . SOE are like any other company out there. Their goal is to make money and they will do that by whatever means they are able to. Add to that the fact that the MMO genre is realitively new and all the companies are learning. Mistakes will happen and SOE have a wider space for them to happen in.
There I am, nothing but honest. I have my doubts but I have faith and trust in Sigil. I am also capable of reason and both that reason and my trust of Sigil has over-ridden my doubts about the deal.
If SOE do one day get their grubby mits on Vanguard I will be upset and I may just eat my words. I have spoken my words, on this forum, because I believe them though. I do not see SOE ever taking an active stance in Vanguard, I see no reason for Sigil to need them to.
Call me a troll as much as you like but i know where I stand on thsi argument and I know the facts as they have been presented. I do my best not to pass on judgement that is found to be lacking by listening to the more reliable sources.
Well, reading your previous posting you are the classical "ok hubby, i trust you again, you wont beat me again -ever" customer. Even beyond that, you yare not only naiv, you even continue supporting this misbehaviour.
You are one of the classical examples paying for something you dont like and spending most of your time in some boards to complain about what you dont like - instead of talking with your wallet.
I am afraid, there is no "hope" for you - since peoples like you ALWAYS find some justifying for their own (hillarious) acting.
See, what if i have told you 2 years ago already on the SoE boards, what mismanagement is present and how the game will fall sooner or later.
Were you the one arguing the in same way you do here now? And what was left at the end?
See your own previous posting, esp. the paragraph were you report how YOU were bent over by SoE.
Nuff said, wake up and get real dude - you are dreaming !
Originally posted by ClaudeFR Well, reading your previous posting you are the classical "ok hubby, i trust you again, you wont beat me again -ever" customer. Even beyond that, you yare not only naiv, you even continue supporting this misbehaviour. You are one of the classical examples paying for something you dont like and spending most of your time in some boards to complain about what you dont like - instead of talking with your wallet. I am afraid, there is no "hope" for you - since peoples like you ALWAYS find some justifying for their own (hillarious) acting. See, what if i have told you 2 years ago already on the SoE boards, what mismanagement is present and how the game will fall sooner or later. Were you the one arguing the in same way you do here now? And what was left at the end? See your own previous posting, esp. the paragraph were you report how YOU were bent over by SoE. Nuff said, wake up and get real dude - you are dreaming !
I was the one who came out with scathing attacks against SOE when I first played EQ2. My threads never got locked and they got discussed reasonably. You know why? Because I presented facts rather than jumping straight down the throat. I said where they were going wrong with reasoned conclusions.
I still feel the same about EQ2. I will not play it.
I still feel the same about EQ. I will not play it.
I still feel the same about SWG. I will not play it.
I understand why they made the decisions they did though. I don't not play these games to not give SOE money anymore. I don't play these games because I don't want to.
Neither Sigil nor SOE have done anything to make me believe that Vanguard will be damaged with this deal. They are at fresh ground. Until they do something to disprove my beliefs that fresh ground will remain friendly.
I was able to forgive SOE and look at them with fresh eyes.
Oh and I give up on this discussion. Nothing I can say will ever get through to you. You are incapable of understanding, or wanting to understand, the facts. You have made your mind up and will stubbornly stick to it. That is worse than following blindly (which you have me very wrong about) as you never see a ray of hope in something; you will always remain prejudced even when the good, in a situation, shines out. Life is ever changing Claude. Companies make mistakes and they learn in order to change. I'll admit some don't change but many, many do. Give SOE a chance; it is called free-thinking.
But i thought you said that SoE has NO control over Sigil's game, so how come you suggest NOW to give SoE a chance?
While i do understand the "spirit" and meaning of your previous posting, you need to know (and consider) that we (we=vets / ex-customer:Whatever...) gave SoE mayby MORE then a dozen chances - and there WILL come a time where this privilege is simply due, no ?
They dont GET a chance, they need to EARN another chance. Can you see the diff ?
Im sick & tired of Smeds and Thunderhearts and Garvas posting lies and bull straightface, the whole day. Promising this and that and the stars from the sky and the next patch is whiping your profession completely and rendering all your stuff useless.
And then the "damagecontrol" of SoE is taking place, where devs crawl from under their bridge, posting a "Hello im Jeff and normally dont care who you are but my boss insisted on me posting here once - so i do".
After one week and 596 pages no more reply from ANY on them. While this "smed-plague is sending donuts from the SWG-fees to some other forum dudes cuz they called him whatever.
Ya..i need to have more trust in them and give them another chance. WHAT IN ALL NAMES YOU ARE SMOKING ???
Sure, forums are to discuss....and I would like to discuss the motivation of a few people who continue to post on this forum. Because, I would believe that any healthy human being would dissassociate themselves with things that they dislike, such as Vanguard in this instance, and stop concerning themselves with the affairs of said issue.
Of course there are things you can't avoid. Like bills, debt, cancer....you can't just dissassociate yourselves with it. But a video game, something aquired, something chosen....you can walk away freely and never have to look back. Yet there are some, who apparently feel the desire to continually involve themselves in discussions about things they have no interest in...they appear to salivate at the mere thought of being surrounded by negativity...and it is because of those motivations that I have trouble believing anything someone like that would say.
But i thought you said that SoE has NO control over Sigil's game, so how come you suggest NOW to give SoE a chance?
While i do understand the "spirit" and meaning of your previous posting, you need to know (and consider) that we (we=vets / ex-customer:Whatever...) gave SoE mayby MORE then a dozen chances - and there WILL come a time where this privilege is simply due, no ?
They dont GET a chance, they need to EARN another chance. Can you see the diff ?
Im sick & tired of Smeds and Thunderhearts and Garvas posting lies and bull straightface, the whole day. Promising this and that and the stars from the sky and the next patch is whiping your profession completely and rendering all your stuff useless.
And then the "damagecontrol" of SoE is taking place, where devs crawl from under their bridge, posting a "Hello im Jeff and normally dont care who you are but my boss insisted on me posting here once - so i do".
After one week and 596 pages no more reply from ANY on them. While this "smed-plague is sending donuts from the SWG-fees to some other forum dudes cuz they called him whatever.
Ya..i need to have more trust in them and give them another chance. WHAT IN ALL NAMES YOU ARE SMOKING ???
AoC Forums --------------> That way.
I mean, seriously. Out of the pure graciousness of my heart, I think your life would be better if you played a game that you would like and that doesn't stress you the **** out. And hey...if that means we don't have the pleasure of playing together in SOH, then fine....I suppose I'll miss you, but you know...I think I can bear that, to know that you are off somewhere frolliking in the green pastures of AoC, or Tabula Rasa, or CoH, or WoW or whatever....I think I can live with that feeling of loss, just knowing that you are happy.
I regard this whole issue as having four types of people, well any mmorpg release really.
The first - The "Wait and see" crowd. The normal people. The ones who will wait until the game is launched, and see for themselves upon launch. If the game is good, keep on playing. If the game doesn't appeal to them then, stop playing.
The second - The "I am not interested" crowd. They you do not hear from. Because they are normal too. They do not like a game, so they do not care about it. They tend to be part of the "wait and see" crowd too. As they do not focus on other games they are not interested in, but pay closer attention to the games they have a waiting attitude towards. Like me. I follow Vanguard. Will try it upon release, if it then doesn't appeal to me. I won't play it anymore. Yet I stay away from forums, etc, of games I could care less about or don't like due to their direction. RF Online, Darkfall, Roma Victor, etc.
The Third - The "ZOMG this game will be the bestest ebah and everyone who doesn't like it suck. They can do nothing wrong". Now we are crossing into fanboy territory. They are not normal. They WILL get dissapointed when they play the game. They actually stand the biggest chance of being dissapointed because they set their sights too high. NO game is perfect for ANYONE. Every game have small irks that you don't like, and they differ depending on the persons likes. The problem is that the fanboy will see them as bigger irks because they believed that there would be no irks.
The fourth - A new class "I loved this game before. But now due to a change, it sucks!. It has not changed now, but it "will" change in the future (in reality it is not a "will" but a "might", as is true for any game). The people who doom a game before it starts.
There are people on this forum that seem to have been a part of number three, then proceeded to number 4. Which make me question their logic as well as sanity. And then to keep on posting on the forums of games they no longer like. It makes no sense. Basically seeking to find others that feel like them, and then uttering the statements over and over, so it for them become reality. This in term make them feel validated for their choice.
I feel sorry for them because they will not enjoy the games now, even if it was released to their liking (which Vanguard will, if you liked it before, you will like it at release, SOE won't change anything by then). It is part of dissonance theory (big word for the children).This is because they have put so much effort into not liking it. Starting to post on forums that they are enjoying the game post-release will make them seem hyppocritical, which would be self-conscious. This in turn will make them much more likely to focus on ANY irk in the game and blow them out of proportion. The game WILL be bad for them, no matter what.
Originally posted by Droigan I regard this whole issue as having four types of people, well any mmorpg release really. The first - The "Wait and see" crowd. The normal people. The ones who will wait until the game is launched, and see for themselves upon launch. If the game is good, keep on playing. If the game doesn't appeal to them then, stop playing. The second - The "I am not interested" crowd. They you do not hear from. Because they are normal too. They do not like a game, so they do not care about it. They tend to be part of the "wait and see" crowd too. As they do not focus on other games they are not interested in, but pay closer attention to the games they have a waiting attitude towards. Like me. I follow Vanguard. Will try it upon release, if it then doesn't appeal to me. I won't play it anymore. Yet I stay away from forums, etc, of games I could care less about or don't like due to their direction. RF Online, Darkfall, Roma Victor, etc. The Third - The "ZOMG this game will be the bestest ebah and everyone who doesn't like it suck. They can do nothing wrong". Now we are crossing into fanboy territory. They are not normal. They WILL get dissapointed when they play the game. They actually stand the biggest chance of being dissapointed because they set their sights too high. NO game is perfect for ANYONE. Every game have small irks that you don't like, and they differ depending on the persons likes. The problem is that the fanboy will see them as bigger irks because they believed that there would be no irks. The fourth - A new class "I loved this game before. But now due to a change, it sucks!. It has not changed now, but it "will" change in the future (in reality it is not a "will" but a "might", as is true for any game). The people who doom a game before it starts. There are people on this forum that seem to have been a part of number three, then proceeded to number 4. Which make me question their logic as well as sanity. And then to keep on posting on the forums of games they no longer like. It makes no sense. Basically seeking to find others that feel like them, and then uttering the statements over and over, so it for them become reality. This in term make them feel validated for their choice. I feel sorry for them because they will not enjoy the games now, even if it was released to their liking (which Vanguard will, if you liked it before, you will like it at release, SOE won't change anything by then). It is part of dissonance theory (big word for the children).This is because they have put so much effort into not liking it. Starting to post on forums that they are enjoying the game post-release will make them seem hyppocritical, which would be self-conscious. This in turn will make them much more likely to focus on ANY irk in the game and blow them out of proportion. The game WILL be bad for them, no matter what.
Precisely.... It's also called a self fullfilling prophecy by some Psychologists...at least I think so?
Anywho, that's why I've been urging people to just move on. They aren't doing anyone any good.
The ones (yes like me) that have somethign from a distrust to out right foaming at the mouth hatered of all things SoE have a very valid purpose here. Like it or not if all you see are the cheerleaders (players) and spin doctors (pr types from a company), then you only see one side of a debate.
I know it might upset a few that have watched the game develop and grow under the coders love and care, and I very much respect that, but here are the facts.
The provangard posters are saying (roughly): "Look brad said that SoE will have no control over the game."
The anti-SoE camp says: "you all are screwed....."
The reality is somewhere in between.
Fact: SoE will not be the developers, brad and crew are keepers of the code.
Fact: SoE will be managing the servers, brad and crew will not have any direct control over them.
Fact: Sigil will be in charge of customer service, sidestepping the less than stellar reputation of SoE in and out of game customer service.
Fact: SoE will be handling the accounting and technical support. Brad and team should have some oversight here.
(can we agree with the above?)
Frankly yes I do NOT trust SoE, I do think that brad and his team have a very good vision of a good game.
I do see some friction points to how this is all set up. Here are some common issues that can cause the friction I am personally concerned with:
a. Servers are not stable to a level that is acceptable form a player standpoint: SoE will blame the code, Brad and team will blame the server hardware.
b. A Disputed billing issue. let say that someone tries the game and then cancels? SoE HAS had some issues here with billing after cancelation. The upset customer contacts customer service who say that they will fix the problem, only to now have to go to the other side of the preverbial house and talk to SoE accounting about this. The customer posit that they canceled on x date (customer service as the adovcate bacs them up), So# says well per our records the customer did nto cancel till y date.
c. there is periods of lag or uneven play experince. see friction point a. it will be the same thing.;
Like it or not reputation of a game and how players are treated does in fact count alot in the word of mouth recommndation and long term viablity of a game.
I was looking for a nice deep, rich, complex game to enjoy. When you look at the past history of SoE and thier actions on a broad front()not just SWG), well yes i am concerned. To say that it can never happen to this game, what ever IT is, is a bit niave. I think most of that are not foaming at teh mouth would be overjoyed to see this game take off and be a big hit, but I am willing to bet that alot are goign to wait and see, not about the game (sadly), but on how SoE comports themselves in ragards to the earlier players of the game.
Is that fair?
p.s. telling people to either "shut up" or "go away" on a forums is like waving a steak at a hungry dog.
Originally posted by WoodenDummy Originally posted by Malakai Sigil and SOE won't even miss your money and the Vanguard fans won't miss you either. Good riddence. Here are a few links to some reports on Vanguard for you viewing pleasure.
People like you crack me up.
As soon as you start firing off your mouths with crap like "good riddence we won't miss you" I start to worry about a game. SOE do one thing really really well, they split player bases down the middle, it's why there forums are the way they are. It seems that SOE have split the Vanguard player base without even touching the game.
I've got news for you pal, SOE WILL miss the money of the people they have pissed off. Only a idiot would say that they wouldn't.
I love the way you posted links to sites that gave hype to other MMOs that crashed and burned.
The sites I posted hyped MMOs that crashed and burned? Wow I did not realize that World of Warcraft crashed and burned. Damn thats news to me . How could Gamespot have been so wrong? Also for your information that last guy is the editor and chief of Computer Gaming World Magazine and they blasted the SWG NGE thing. So you can't exactly say that he is pro SOE. He calls it right down the middle. Andrew Park from Gamespot can also be rather unforgiving in his assessment of video games. So sorry Wooden Dummy nice try, but once again your point is invalid. But I will say this, your posts are always worth a few laughs.
Originally posted by Seloth Acutaqlly Vengeful, The ones (yes like me) that have somethign from a distrust to out right foaming at the mouth hatered of all things SoE have a very valid purpose here. Like it or not if all you see are the cheerleaders (players) and spin doctors (pr types from a company), then you only see one side of a debate. I know it might upset a few that have watched the game develop and grow under the coders love and care, and I very much respect that, but here are the facts. The provangard posters are saying (roughly): "Look brad said that SoE will have no control over the game." The anti-SoE camp says: "you all are screwed....." The reality is somewhere in between. Fact: SoE will not be the developers, brad and crew are keepers of the code. Fact: SoE will be managing the servers, brad and crew will not have any direct control over them. Fact: Sigil will be in charge of customer service, sidestepping the less than stellar reputation of SoE in and out of game customer service. Fact: SoE will be handling the accounting and technical support. Brad and team should have some oversight here. (can we agree with the above?) Frankly yes I do NOT trust SoE, I do think that brad and his team have a very good vision of a good game. I do see some friction points to how this is all set up. Here are some common issues that can cause the friction I am personally concerned with: a. Servers are not stable to a level that is acceptable form a player standpoint: SoE will blame the code, Brad and team will blame the server hardware. b. A Disputed billing issue. let say that someone tries the game and then cancels? SoE HAS had some issues here with billing after cancelation. The upset customer contacts customer service who say that they will fix the problem, only to now have to go to the other side of the preverbial house and talk to SoE accounting about this. The customer posit that they canceled on x date (customer service as the adovcate bacs them up), So# says well per our records the customer did nto cancel till y date. c. there is periods of lag or uneven play experince. see friction point a. it will be the same thing.; Like it or not reputation of a game and how players are treated does in fact count alot in the word of mouth recommndation and long term viablity of a game. I was looking for a nice deep, rich, complex game to enjoy. When you look at the past history of SoE and thier actions on a broad front()not just SWG), well yes i am concerned. To say that it can never happen to this game, what ever IT is, is a bit niave. I think most of that are not foaming at teh mouth would be overjoyed to see this game take off and be a big hit, but I am willing to bet that alot are goign to wait and see, not about the game (sadly), but on how SoE comports themselves in ragards to the earlier players of the game. Is that fair?
p.s. telling people to either "shut up" or "go away" on a forums is like waving a steak at a hungry dog.
Excellent post. I am a fanboy but I have nothing but respect for anyone who hates SOE. I have even more respect for someone who will not play Vangaurd because of SOE's involvement. I look on the merger as a good thing if it gives them longer to develop and more control over the content. The intricate details of what happened and why we will truly never know. How much control or leverage SOE has we will never know as well. But we can all agree that we hope the game turns out a success. Many of us can also agree that we like the ideas behind Vanguard. What I thinkwe can also agree on is SOE's involvement gives us all, even fanboys like myself, an easy excuse to jump ship of the game is not up to standars late in beta or at release.
Originally posted by Seloth Acutaqlly Vengeful, The ones (yes like me) that have somethign from a distrust to out right foaming at the mouth hatered of all things SoE have a very valid purpose here. Like it or not if all you see are the cheerleaders (players) and spin doctors (pr types from a company), then you only see one side of a debate. I know it might upset a few that have watched the game develop and grow under the coders love and care, and I very much respect that, but here are the facts. The provangard posters are saying (roughly): "Look brad said that SoE will have no control over the game." The anti-SoE camp says: "you all are screwed....." The reality is somewhere in between. Fact: SoE will not be the developers, brad and crew are keepers of the code. Fact: SoE will be managing the servers, brad and crew will not have any direct control over them. Fact: Sigil will be in charge of customer service, sidestepping the less than stellar reputation of SoE in and out of game customer service. Fact: SoE will be handling the accounting and technical support. Brad and team should have some oversight here. (can we agree with the above?) Frankly yes I do NOT trust SoE, I do think that brad and his team have a very good vision of a good game. I do see some friction points to how this is all set up. Here are some common issues that can cause the friction I am personally concerned with: a. Servers are not stable to a level that is acceptable form a player standpoint: SoE will blame the code, Brad and team will blame the server hardware. b. A Disputed billing issue. let say that someone tries the game and then cancels? SoE HAS had some issues here with billing after cancelation. The upset customer contacts customer service who say that they will fix the problem, only to now have to go to the other side of the preverbial house and talk to SoE accounting about this. The customer posit that they canceled on x date (customer service as the adovcate bacs them up), So# says well per our records the customer did nto cancel till y date. c. there is periods of lag or uneven play experince. see friction point a. it will be the same thing.; Like it or not reputation of a game and how players are treated does in fact count alot in the word of mouth recommndation and long term viablity of a game. I was looking for a nice deep, rich, complex game to enjoy. When you look at the past history of SoE and thier actions on a broad front()not just SWG), well yes i am concerned. To say that it can never happen to this game, what ever IT is, is a bit niave. I think most of that are not foaming at teh mouth would be overjoyed to see this game take off and be a big hit, but I am willing to bet that alot are goign to wait and see, not about the game (sadly), but on how SoE comports themselves in ragards to the earlier players of the game. Is that fair?
p.s. telling people to either "shut up" or "go away" on a forums is like waving a steak at a hungry dog.
Read what I'm saying -------> I don't doubt that they have an opinion. I don't doubt that their Anti-SOE fanboism is any different than Pro-Sigil fanboism. I doubt doubt that they are serving a purpose, and exposing very real concerns about this game.
WHAT I AM SAYING!!!! -----> I am not sure if I can trust the judgement of someone who would go out of their way to post on a forum that is specifically designed for discussion of a game they refuse to have any part of. It's self destructive, and leads me to believe that the people performing this act of self destruction has some very real personal issues....and I'm not one to listen to crazy people.
If the individuals posting on this forum REALLY didn't care about Vanguard, and REALLY didn't want to play it, they would have said at most "F that, I'm outie" and stopped posting. That is what the majority of people opposed to SOE would do, I would think.
If you really want something like this to go away, Ignore it. Sorta like how banned books suddenly become extremely popular. Or how really crappy albums go platinum after and only after Walmart refuses to sell the CDs.
"If you really want something like this to go away, Ignore it. Sorta like how banned books suddenly become extremely popular. Or how really crappy albums go platinum after and only after Walmart refuses to sell the CDs."
Please tell me you are kidding. Ignoring something will not make it go way, that is just you pushing your head in the sand like an ostrich.
I will counter your examples with: cancer, poverty, genocide. Yes please lets just ignore those things and they will go away.
Can you understand that alot of players that are posting NOW are doing it for a reason? Do you honestly think that there are not a group of people that play games that sit back read, watch and do not feel the need to post save when they feel that the apple cart hit a bump in the road? Good lord man(generic term), look at the real world if you can not see it here in cyberspace. People go about thier lives for the most part silently, till something that makes them upset then they speak up. Want and example? How many calls do you think Dell gets that are about how great the computer is running? How many people anymore stop and take the time to thank ANYONE for a job well done when they are a stranger? How many people though will let it be clear that a product or service is NOT Satisfactory?
Real life here people, happy customers on the whole only make up 10% of the communication a company hears about. It is a axiom of marketing that you will get 10 complaints for every compliment. People expect to be happy with a product so they do not say anything.
Vangard fans (and yes I am a fan of the coders) welcome to the real world.
Originally posted by Seloth "If you really want something like this to go away, Ignore it. Sorta like how banned books suddenly become extremely popular. Or how really crappy albums go platinum after and only after Walmart refuses to sell the CDs." Please tell me you are kidding. Ignoring something will not make it go way, that is just you pushing your head in the sand like an ostrich. I will counter your examples with: cancer, poverty, genocide. Yes please lets just ignore those things and they will go away. Can you understand that alot of players that are posting NOW are doing it for a reason? Do you honestly think that there are not a group of people that play games that sit back read, watch and do not feel the need to post save when they feel that the apple cart hit a bump in the road? Good lord man(generic term), look at the real world if you can not see it here in cyberspace. People go about thier lives for the most part silently, till something that makes them upset then they speak up. Want and example? How many calls do you think Dell gets that are about how great the computer is running? How many people anymore stop and take the time to thank ANYONE for a job well done when they are a stranger? How many people though will let it be clear that a product or service is NOT Satisfactory? Real life here people, happy customers on the whole only make up 10% of the communication a company hears about. It is a axiom of marketing that you will get 10 complaints for every compliment. People expect to be happy with a product so they do not say anything. Vangard fans (and yes I am a fan of the coders) welcome to the real world.
Please tell me you didn't just liken a video game to cancer. Cancer is a material/biological fact, poverty is a social/domestic fact. A VIDEO GAME is entertainment, and the entertainment market is far more fickel and wavering than breast cancer. Then again, I'm no expert...not sure how many people go out and get colon cancer just to try it out, just to see what all the hubub is about.
By going out and trying to ban a book, or protesting against some album or video game....like the pepole on these forums....all they are doing is giving that book or that album MORE attention, and thusly creating more interest in said item.
Here's a wonderful example, locally, at least, some highschools were reading Toni Morrison's "The Bluest Eye", in it it deals with things like sexual molestation and incest (painting it in a negative light of course). Some parents ranted and raved, and through a big fit about the explicit material and got the book banned from the highschools. Before that occurence, I (as a literature major) had never heard of the book or Toni Morrison. Two of my classes the next quarter picked Toni Morrison as an author we'd be reading, and, as you would think, The local book stores suddenly sold out of Toni Morrison novels. Why? Because people like to see what all the controversy is about.
You obviously cannot just ignore cancer and expet it to go away, but you can ignore things like The Divinci Code movie, and it will soon pass from the publics eye. Speaking out, whether negatively or positivly about things like books, movies, games, and music (the entertainment industry primarily) will only serve to give that thing MORE attention.
And so, with that being said. Yes, I think you are edited by Dekron for not being able to make this clear disinction, and I hope you are never in a position to make decisions that effect the lives of others....because you obviously are functioning on a different plane of reason.
"And so, with that being said. Yes, I think you are a moron for not being able to make this clear disinction, and I hope you are never in a position to make decisions that effect the lives of others....because you obviously are functioning on a different plane of reason."
wow, now i am a moron, thanks mister wizard.
FYI: the people that work for me are very happy and well taken care of thank you. But after 25 years in the Computer Industry I think I have a clue how to treat employees for the companies and governenment that I have had the honor of working.
Obviously I do see a connection to ignoring a small item as to ME that leads one to set the bar higher and higher to what we will ignore. guess you think I am a moron to beleive this.
Since you have decided to lower the debate to insulting words. well you win, hands you a cookie.
p.s. guess you are ignore the rest of poost so i will go away, that is fine. may you find happiness in your path of life young person.
Originally posted by Seloth "And so, with that being said. Yes, I think you are a moron for not being able to make this clear disinction, and I hope you are never in a position to make decisions that effect the lives of others....because you obviously are functioning on a different plane of reason." wow, now i am a moron, thanks mister wizard. FYI: the people that work for me are very happy and well taken care of thank you. But after 25 years in the Computer Industry I think I have a clue how to treat employees for the companies and governenment that I have had the honor of working. Obviously I do see a connection to ignoring a small item as to ME that leads one to set the bar higher and higher to what we will ignore. guess you think I am a moron to beleive this. Since you have decided to lower the debate to insulting words. well you win, hands you a cookie.
p.s. guess you are ignore the rest of poost so i will go away, that is fine. may you find happiness in your path of life young person.
It's simple folks, if you feel comfortable giving SOE your money, then do so.
I personally don't, but I'm only one person. Vanguard looks ok (I'm sorry, but I don't see anything REALLY that good about it), and I'll admit that I'm tempted to at least try it out.
What I would recommend to those that are interested in the game, but hate SOE, is look at it 6 months after release. This is an ample amount of time to approximately see how the game is doing and where it's heading. If it's the game that everyone is hyping it up to be, then by all means, give them your money.
I personally am more interested in Age of Conan. It seems to have a more mature community, the devs are very open about what's going on in game, they've definately shown what the game can currently do and where it's going. I like the gore, I like the mature themes, I like the fact that they make no apologies that this isn't going to be a "Play Nice" game.
These guys have demonstrated the melee combat system, their ranged combat system, how mounted combat works, how the player cities will work (I'm still blown away by how player cities will spawn it's own PvE content), and how the various class and prestige classes will work.
Heck! They'll even let you play the game for the first 20 levels without a subscription! No killing bats, rats or beetles in a newbie yard here. You can play as many characters to lvl 20 as you like (it's a single player game until then) and when you're ready, you decide when you want to cross over and start your monthly billing.
There is MUCH more depth than what I've elluded to here, but my point is, these guys have been updating their community every week with new information.
Someone please show me what Sigil has shown? They say this is a third generation MMO, but where's the meat of this statement?
It's pretty late in the game. You've switched publishers, which has spooked some people. Give people a reason to relax and feel that they are making the right decision to come play your game. Tell us how and why your combat system is going to revolutionize MMO gameplay. Tell us why I would want to spend 40+ hours per week playing your game?
Again, I'm interested, but I'm not THAT interested. So far I see a very pretty game, that reminds me of what EQ could have been had it been made with today's technology. (not necessarily a bad thing) But EQ's ship has sailed imho. It's time for something different, something new. I really wish I could relive the old days, but I just don't see that happening so far, mainly because I don't really see anything that would set this game apart from any of the other MMO's that are currently in the works.
If there is information, videos, screenies, etc, that is contrary to what I've said, please feel free to post it here. I'll gladly eat my words if you can show me why Vanguard SOH is going to be the end all, be all.
Originally posted by Binny45 It's simple folks, if you feel comfortable giving SOE your money, then do so.
I personally don't, but I'm only one person. Vanguard looks ok (I'm sorry, but I don't see anything REALLY that good about it), and I'll admit that I'm tempted to at least try it out.
What I would recommend to those that are interested in the game, but hate SOE, is look at it 6 months after release. This is an ample amount of time to approximately see how the game is doing and where it's heading. If it's the game that everyone is hyping it up to be, then by all means, give them your money.
I personally am more interested in Age of Conan. It seems to have a more mature community, the devs are very open about what's going on in game, they've definately shown what the game can currently do and where it's going. I like the gore, I like the mature themes, I like the fact that they make no apologies that this isn't going to be a "Play Nice" game.
These guys have demonstrated the melee combat system, their ranged combat system, how mounted combat works, how the player cities will work (I'm still blown away by how player cities will spawn it's own PvE content), and how the various class and prestige classes will work.
Heck! They'll even let you play the game for the first 20 levels without a subscription! No killing bats, rats or beetles in a newbie yard here. You can play as many characters to lvl 20 as you like (it's a single player game until then) and when you're ready, you decide when you want to cross over and start your monthly billing.
There is MUCH more depth than what I've elluded to here, but my point is, these guys have been updating their community every week with new information.
Someone please show me what Sigil has shown? They say this is a third generation MMO, but where's the meat of this statement?
It's pretty late in the game. You've switched publishers, which has spooked some people. Give people a reason to relax and feel that they are making the right decision to come play your game. Tell us how and why your combat system is going to revolutionize MMO gameplay. Tell us why I would want to spend 40+ hours per week playing your game?
Again, I'm interested, but I'm not THAT interested. So far I see a very pretty game, that reminds me of what EQ could have been had it been made with today's technology. (not necessarily a bad thing) But EQ's ship has sailed imho. It's time for something different, something new. I really wish I could relive the old days, but I just don't see that happening so far, mainly because I don't really see anything that would set this game apart from any of the other MMO's that are currently in the works.
If there is information, videos, screenies, etc, that is contrary to what I've said, please feel free to post it here. I'll gladly eat my words if you can show me why Vanguard SOH is going to be the end all, be all.
I'm also interested in seeing Sigil put their money where their mout is. I want to see the revolutionary gameplay, but I'm not sure if we'll get anything until they lift the NDA. =/
Originally posted by Binny45 I personally am more interested in Age of Conan. It seems to have a more mature community, the devs are very open about what's going on in game, they've definately shown what the game can currently do and where it's going. I like the gore, I like the mature themes, I like the fact that they make no apologies that this isn't going to be a "Play Nice" game.
I also think AoC could be an interesting MMORPG.
But, just a thought -- whatcha gonna do when Funcom announces a partnership with SOE?
Comments
I would suggest that those people think about it twice. SOE has nothing to say about the game. They only will provide servers, distribution and station login. The game stays Sigil and if you don't want to pay soe then pay sigil.
But why complain, more room for those that will play the game
But why complain, more room for those that will play the game..
Hey, why is the POP still low on our server? Go Figure..
Like I said before .. Everquest 2 .. Has one of the BEST MMORPG graphics IMO. But why is'nt this a #1 MMORPG .. Hmm is it Gameplay? Is it the Graphics? or is it because its got the 3 Letter Word attached?
This Vanguard game will have subscribers, but it isnt gonna be the Big One, just the fans that wanna say, I TOLD YOU THIS GAME WILL ROCK.. This game could be the best out there, but hate to break the news to you, its got SOE tied to it, so it wont be the best thats a negative.
Do you know how DIFFERENT this game would of turned out without SOE interferance?
SOE doesnt have anything NEW coming out, but since they are sleeping with Sigil again, they got something NEW to go agaist all the other MMO's that will be coming out this year and next.
Good move on their part, cause SOE doesnt have the best name in the Biz Right Now and there current titles arent impressive anymore.
But I will see you folks on either AoC or Warhammer when you tire of ole Sigil Vanguard Dream
The very nature of a forum is to discuss.
You can even discuss politics without being the president yourself.
You can also discuss gameissues without owning the game, limiting you tho (not able to talk about ingame related issues without playing the game).
Or in SoE's CSR manner:
"We do understand your issue with Shayde. Unfortunatly there is nothing we can do since this is a public forum.
It might help changing your graphiccard to avoid reading Shayde's postings. It might also help to turn the brightness of your monitor down. In special cases it also helped to turn off your computer. Thank you for choosing ..blablablabla"
Claude
The very nature of a forum is to discuss.
You can even discuss politics without being the president yourself.
You can also discuss gameissues without owning the game, limiting you tho (not able to talk about ingame related issues without playing the game).
Or in SoE's CSR manner:
"We do understand your issue with Shayde. Unfortunatly there is nothing we can do since this is a public forum.
It might help changing your graphiccard to avoid reading Shayde's postings. It might also help to turn the brightness of your monitor down. In special cases it also helped to turn off your computer. Thank you for choosing ..blablablabla"
"The very nature of a forum is to discuss"
That is your first comment. Here is my answer to your first comment:
"The very nature of a discussion is to get ones facts right before the make themselves look a fool."
In 90%+ of your posts you have failed to follow that answer. That adds even less credibility to the idea of your continued posting on a game you say you 'hate' and 'refuse to play'.
And before I come across as harassing and disliking of ClaudeFR, due to my replies to his posts. I am not the above. I merely feel he is spreading mistruth about Vanguard and that needs to be corrected before it influences people.
.
I don't like SOE, but I don't think posting an E3 review of a game is really even worth a damn, in all honesty. Inf act, I can't remember the last time a game at E3 was ever labelled a "Hollow failure" or "an inferior title". Even the most lackluster titles receive praise these days. I'm in no way saying that a game at E3 can't be good, but I just think reviewers have become too soft for their own good these days.
I look at titles like Fable, Killzone, Everquest 2, and several other titles that were hyped up into oblivion in previous years, and turned out to be severely disappointing.
Besides, I think every MMO ever released has been hyped, to at least some extent. Not many, however, actually deliver worth a damn...
Waiting for something fresh to arrive on the MMO scene...
Holfeet,
i dont know who you are and where you come from.
But what i do know is, that you have become active here shortly after the "Sigil/SoE Deal Earthquake".
(Spell "damagecontrol").
I read your postings 100% pro Sigil. I read assumptions. I read hope.
Not a single line of yours could be post outr of experience, since the game isnt released.
Nothing you say is set in stone or even for real, just assumptions and hope.
You tell everyone -"reporting" out of experience with SoE- what unreal they are and what idiots (between the lines, i can read).
I think you are a troll and i think your previous post makes you even look pretty much dumb.
You lack EVERY proof, you lack every reality, you lack everything backing up your ASSUMPTIONS and HOPE.
But you post like you where the one knowing everything and every other member here is dumb.
You are a troll, a classical troll, in complete denial. That makes you nothing more but an idiot.
Claude
Calling someone a troll is a basic response to losing an argument/discussion. getting angry is a basic response to losing an argument/discussion. I have answered every single piece of misinformation, you have posted, with the truth and the only avenue you have left is to slander me as a troll that knows little of what he says.
In addition to my feelings about Vanguard and Sigil, I have played EQ, EQ2 and SWG. I have been let down by SOE in each game. EQ changed from a game I loved to a game that was nothing about what I wished from an MMO. EQ2 was a game I looked forward to. I saw a new EQ but the reality was a poor substitute. SWG had the most amazing community and I had many a friend there. Sadly SOE were less than on the ball with the game and its classes so I left. It was the game that I beleived had the most promise when i left WoW and was about to return until they announced the NGE.
So yes I have had my problems with SOE. I do not entirely trust them, but I do trust Sigil and I trust their reporting of the events that led into their deal with SOE. I believe the influence that SOE will have over Vanguard and understand that it is minimal. Before all tthis was announced I was as anti SOE as, perhaps, you are. I had vowed never to give them another penny of my own money. I refused to play EQ, even to keep up with friends. This deal made me think and I realised I was being irrational, though much of it was to do with being desperate to play Vanguard
There I am, nothing but honest. I have my doubts but I have faith and trust in Sigil. I am also capable of reason and both that reason and my trust of Sigil has over-ridden my doubts about the deal.
If SOE do one day get their grubby mits on Vanguard I will be upset and I may just eat my words. I have spoken my words, on this forum, because I believe them though. I do not see SOE ever taking an active stance in Vanguard, I see no reason for Sigil to need them to.
Call me a troll as much as you like but i know where I stand on thsi argument and I know the facts as they have been presented. I do my best not to pass on judgement that is found to be lacking by listening to the more reliable sources.
.
Well, reading your previous posting you are the classical "ok hubby, i trust you again, you wont beat me again -ever" customer.
Even beyond that, you yare not only naiv, you even continue supporting this misbehaviour.
You are one of the classical examples paying for something you dont like and spending most of your time in some boards to complain about what you dont like - instead of talking with your wallet.
I am afraid, there is no "hope" for you - since peoples like you ALWAYS find some justifying for their own (hillarious) acting.
See, what if i have told you 2 years ago already on the SoE boards, what mismanagement is present and how the game will fall sooner or later.
Were you the one arguing the in same way you do here now?
And what was left at the end?
See your own previous posting, esp. the paragraph were you report how YOU were bent over by SoE.
Nuff said, wake up and get real dude - you are dreaming !
Claude
I still feel the same about EQ2. I will not play it.
I still feel the same about EQ. I will not play it.
I still feel the same about SWG. I will not play it.
I understand why they made the decisions they did though. I don't not play these games to not give SOE money anymore. I don't play these games because I don't want to.
Neither Sigil nor SOE have done anything to make me believe that Vanguard will be damaged with this deal. They are at fresh ground. Until they do something to disprove my beliefs that fresh ground will remain friendly.
I was able to forgive SOE and look at them with fresh eyes.
Oh and I give up on this discussion. Nothing I can say will ever get through to you. You are incapable of understanding, or wanting to understand, the facts. You have made your mind up and will stubbornly stick to it. That is worse than following blindly (which you have me very wrong about) as you never see a ray of hope in something; you will always remain prejudced even when the good, in a situation, shines out. Life is ever changing Claude. Companies make mistakes and they learn in order to change. I'll admit some don't change but many, many do. Give SOE a chance; it is called free-thinking.
.
But i thought you said that SoE has NO control over Sigil's game, so how come you suggest NOW to give SoE a chance?
While i do understand the "spirit" and meaning of your previous posting, you need to know (and consider) that we (we=vets / ex-customer:Whatever...) gave SoE mayby MORE then a dozen chances - and there WILL come a time where this privilege is simply due, no ?
They dont GET a chance, they need to EARN another chance. Can you see the diff ?
Im sick & tired of Smeds and Thunderhearts and Garvas posting lies and bull straightface, the whole day.
Promising this and that and the stars from the sky and the next patch is whiping your profession completely and rendering all your stuff useless.
And then the "damagecontrol" of SoE is taking place, where devs crawl from under their bridge, posting a "Hello im Jeff and normally dont care who you are but my boss insisted on me posting here once - so i do".
After one week and 596 pages no more reply from ANY on them. While this "smed-plague is sending donuts from the SWG-fees to some other forum dudes cuz they called him whatever.
Ya..i need to have more trust in them and give them another chance.
WHAT IN ALL NAMES YOU ARE SMOKING ???
Claude
Sure, forums are to discuss....and I would like to discuss the motivation of a few people who continue to post on this forum. Because, I would believe that any healthy human being would dissassociate themselves with things that they dislike, such as Vanguard in this instance, and stop concerning themselves with the affairs of said issue.
Of course there are things you can't avoid. Like bills, debt, cancer....you can't just dissassociate yourselves with it. But a video game, something aquired, something chosen....you can walk away freely and never have to look back. Yet there are some, who apparently feel the desire to continually involve themselves in discussions about things they have no interest in...they appear to salivate at the mere thought of being surrounded by negativity...and it is because of those motivations that I have trouble believing anything someone like that would say.
But i thought you said that SoE has NO control over Sigil's game, so how come you suggest NOW to give SoE a chance?
While i do understand the "spirit" and meaning of your previous posting, you need to know (and consider) that we (we=vets / ex-customer:Whatever...) gave SoE mayby MORE then a dozen chances - and there WILL come a time where this privilege is simply due, no ?
They dont GET a chance, they need to EARN another chance. Can you see the diff ?
Im sick & tired of Smeds and Thunderhearts and Garvas posting lies and bull straightface, the whole day.
Promising this and that and the stars from the sky and the next patch is whiping your profession completely and rendering all your stuff useless.
And then the "damagecontrol" of SoE is taking place, where devs crawl from under their bridge, posting a "Hello im Jeff and normally dont care who you are but my boss insisted on me posting here once - so i do".
After one week and 596 pages no more reply from ANY on them. While this "smed-plague is sending donuts from the SWG-fees to some other forum dudes cuz they called him whatever.
Ya..i need to have more trust in them and give them another chance.
WHAT IN ALL NAMES YOU ARE SMOKING ???
AoC Forums --------------> That way.
I mean, seriously. Out of the pure graciousness of my heart, I think your life would be better if you played a game that you would like and that doesn't stress you the **** out. And hey...if that means we don't have the pleasure of playing together in SOH, then fine....I suppose I'll miss you, but you know...I think I can bear that, to know that you are off somewhere frolliking in the green pastures of AoC, or Tabula Rasa, or CoH, or WoW or whatever....I think I can live with that feeling of loss, just knowing that you are happy.
I regard this whole issue as having four types of people, well any mmorpg release really.
The first - The "Wait and see" crowd. The normal people. The ones who will wait until the game is launched, and see for themselves upon launch. If the game is good, keep on playing. If the game doesn't appeal to them then, stop playing.
The second - The "I am not interested" crowd. They you do not hear from. Because they are normal too. They do not like a game, so they do not care about it. They tend to be part of the "wait and see" crowd too. As they do not focus on other games they are not interested in, but pay closer attention to the games they have a waiting attitude towards. Like me. I follow Vanguard. Will try it upon release, if it then doesn't appeal to me. I won't play it anymore. Yet I stay away from forums, etc, of games I could care less about or don't like due to their direction. RF Online, Darkfall, Roma Victor, etc.
The Third - The "ZOMG this game will be the bestest ebah and everyone who doesn't like it suck. They can do nothing wrong". Now we are crossing into fanboy territory. They are not normal. They WILL get dissapointed when they play the game. They actually stand the biggest chance of being dissapointed because they set their sights too high. NO game is perfect for ANYONE. Every game have small irks that you don't like, and they differ depending on the persons likes. The problem is that the fanboy will see them as bigger irks because they believed that there would be no irks.
The fourth - A new class "I loved this game before. But now due to a change, it sucks!. It has not changed now, but it "will" change in the future (in reality it is not a "will" but a "might", as is true for any game). The people who doom a game before it starts.
There are people on this forum that seem to have been a part of number three, then proceeded to number 4. Which make me question their logic as well as sanity. And then to keep on posting on the forums of games they no longer like. It makes no sense. Basically seeking to find others that feel like them, and then uttering the statements over and over, so it for them become reality. This in term make them feel validated for their choice.
I feel sorry for them because they will not enjoy the games now, even if it was released to their liking (which Vanguard will, if you liked it before, you will like it at release, SOE won't change anything by then). It is part of dissonance theory (big word for the children).This is because they have put so much effort into not liking it. Starting to post on forums that they are enjoying the game post-release will make them seem hyppocritical, which would be self-conscious. This in turn will make them much more likely to focus on ANY irk in the game and blow them out of proportion. The game WILL be bad for them, no matter what.
Precisely.... It's also called a self fullfilling prophecy by some Psychologists...at least I think so?
Anywho, that's why I've been urging people to just move on. They aren't doing anyone any good.
Acutaqlly Vengeful,
The ones (yes like me) that have somethign from a distrust to out right foaming at the mouth hatered of all things SoE have a very valid purpose here. Like it or not if all you see are the cheerleaders (players) and spin doctors (pr types from a company), then you only see one side of a debate.
I know it might upset a few that have watched the game develop and grow under the coders love and care, and I very much respect that, but here are the facts.
The provangard posters are saying (roughly): "Look brad said that SoE will have no control over the game."
The anti-SoE camp says: "you all are screwed....."
The reality is somewhere in between.
Fact: SoE will not be the developers, brad and crew are keepers of the code.
Fact: SoE will be managing the servers, brad and crew will not have any direct control over them.
Fact: Sigil will be in charge of customer service, sidestepping the less than stellar reputation of SoE in and out of game customer service.
Fact: SoE will be handling the accounting and technical support. Brad and team should have some oversight here.
(can we agree with the above?)
Frankly yes I do NOT trust SoE, I do think that brad and his team have a very good vision of a good game.
I do see some friction points to how this is all set up. Here are some common issues that can cause the friction I am personally concerned with:
a. Servers are not stable to a level that is acceptable form a player standpoint: SoE will blame the code, Brad and team will blame the server hardware.
b. A Disputed billing issue. let say that someone tries the game and then cancels? SoE HAS had some issues here with billing after cancelation. The upset customer contacts customer service who say that they will fix the problem, only to now have to go to the other side of the preverbial house and talk to SoE accounting about this. The customer posit that they canceled on x date (customer service as the adovcate bacs them up), So# says well per our records the customer did nto cancel till y date.
c. there is periods of lag or uneven play experince. see friction point a. it will be the same thing.;
Like it or not reputation of a game and how players are treated does in fact count alot in the word of mouth recommndation and long term viablity of a game.
I was looking for a nice deep, rich, complex game to enjoy. When you look at the past history of SoE and thier actions on a broad front()not just SWG), well yes i am concerned. To say that it can never happen to this game, what ever IT is, is a bit niave. I think most of that are not foaming at teh mouth would be overjoyed to see this game take off and be a big hit, but I am willing to bet that alot are goign to wait and see, not about the game (sadly), but on how SoE comports themselves in ragards to the earlier players of the game.
Is that fair?
p.s. telling people to either "shut up" or "go away" on a forums is like waving a steak at a hungry dog.
As soon as you start firing off your mouths with crap like "good riddence we won't miss you" I start to worry about a game. SOE do one thing really really well, they split player bases down the middle, it's why there forums are the way they are. It seems that SOE have split the Vanguard player base without even touching the game.
I've got news for you pal, SOE WILL miss the money of the people they have pissed off. Only a idiot would say that they wouldn't.
I love the way you posted links to sites that gave hype to other MMOs that crashed and burned.
The sites I posted hyped MMOs that crashed and burned? Wow I did not realize that World of Warcraft crashed and burned. Damn thats news to me
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
Read what I'm saying -------> I don't doubt that they have an opinion. I don't doubt that their Anti-SOE fanboism is any different than Pro-Sigil fanboism. I doubt doubt that they are serving a purpose, and exposing very real concerns about this game.
WHAT I AM SAYING!!!! -----> I am not sure if I can trust the judgement of someone who would go out of their way to post on a forum that is specifically designed for discussion of a game they refuse to have any part of. It's self destructive, and leads me to believe that the people performing this act of self destruction has some very real personal issues....and I'm not one to listen to crazy people.
If the individuals posting on this forum REALLY didn't care about Vanguard, and REALLY didn't want to play it, they would have said at most "F that, I'm outie" and stopped posting. That is what the majority of people opposed to SOE would do, I would think.
If you really want something like this to go away, Ignore it. Sorta like how banned books suddenly become extremely popular. Or how really crappy albums go platinum after and only after Walmart refuses to sell the CDs.
"If you really want something like this to go away, Ignore it. Sorta like how banned books suddenly become extremely popular. Or how really crappy albums go platinum after and only after Walmart refuses to sell the CDs."
Please tell me you are kidding. Ignoring something will not make it go way, that is just you pushing your head in the sand like an ostrich.
I will counter your examples with: cancer, poverty, genocide. Yes please lets just ignore those things and they will go away.
Can you understand that alot of players that are posting NOW are doing it for a reason? Do you honestly think that there are not a group of people that play games that sit back read, watch and do not feel the need to post save when they feel that the apple cart hit a bump in the road? Good lord man(generic term), look at the real world if you can not see it here in cyberspace. People go about thier lives for the most part silently, till something that makes them upset then they speak up. Want and example? How many calls do you think Dell gets that are about how great the computer is running? How many people anymore stop and take the time to thank ANYONE for a job well done when they are a stranger? How many people though will let it be clear that a product or service is NOT Satisfactory?
Real life here people, happy customers on the whole only make up 10% of the communication a company hears about. It is a axiom of marketing that you will get 10 complaints for every compliment. People expect to be happy with a product so they do not say anything.
Vangard fans (and yes I am a fan of the coders) welcome to the real world.
Please tell me you didn't just liken a video game to cancer. Cancer is a material/biological fact, poverty is a social/domestic fact. A VIDEO GAME is entertainment, and the entertainment market is far more fickel and wavering than breast cancer. Then again, I'm no expert...not sure how many people go out and get colon cancer just to try it out, just to see what all the hubub is about.
By going out and trying to ban a book, or protesting against some album or video game....like the pepole on these forums....all they are doing is giving that book or that album MORE attention, and thusly creating more interest in said item.
Here's a wonderful example, locally, at least, some highschools were reading Toni Morrison's "The Bluest Eye", in it it deals with things like sexual molestation and incest (painting it in a negative light of course). Some parents ranted and raved, and through a big fit about the explicit material and got the book banned from the highschools. Before that occurence, I (as a literature major) had never heard of the book or Toni Morrison. Two of my classes the next quarter picked Toni Morrison as an author we'd be reading, and, as you would think, The local book stores suddenly sold out of Toni Morrison novels. Why? Because people like to see what all the controversy is about.
You obviously cannot just ignore cancer and expet it to go away, but you can ignore things like The Divinci Code movie, and it will soon pass from the publics eye. Speaking out, whether negatively or positivly about things like books, movies, games, and music (the entertainment industry primarily) will only serve to give that thing MORE attention.
And so, with that being said. Yes, I think you are edited by Dekron for not being able to make this clear disinction, and I hope you are never in a position to make decisions that effect the lives of others....because you obviously are functioning on a different plane of reason.
Me
"And so, with that being said. Yes, I think you are a moron for not being able to make this clear disinction, and I hope you are never in a position to make decisions that effect the lives of others....because you obviously are functioning on a different plane of reason."
wow, now i am a moron, thanks mister wizard.
FYI: the people that work for me are very happy and well taken care of thank you. But after 25 years in the Computer Industry I think I have a clue how to treat employees for the companies and governenment that I have had the honor of working.
Obviously I do see a connection to ignoring a small item as to ME that leads one to set the bar higher and higher to what we will ignore. guess you think I am a moron to beleive this.
Since you have decided to lower the debate to insulting words. well you win, hands you a cookie.
p.s. guess you are ignore the rest of poost so i will go away, that is fine. may you find happiness in your path of life young person.
It's simple folks, if you feel comfortable giving SOE your money, then do so.
I personally don't, but I'm only one person. Vanguard looks ok (I'm sorry, but I don't see anything REALLY that good about it), and I'll admit that I'm tempted to at least try it out.
What I would recommend to those that are interested in the game, but hate SOE, is look at it 6 months after release. This is an ample amount of time to approximately see how the game is doing and where it's heading. If it's the game that everyone is hyping it up to be, then by all means, give them your money.
I personally am more interested in Age of Conan. It seems to have a more mature community, the devs are very open about what's going on in game, they've definately shown what the game can currently do and where it's going. I like the gore, I like the mature themes, I like the fact that they make no apologies that this isn't going to be a "Play Nice" game.
These guys have demonstrated the melee combat system, their ranged combat system, how mounted combat works, how the player cities will work (I'm still blown away by how player cities will spawn it's own PvE content), and how the various class and prestige classes will work.
Heck! They'll even let you play the game for the first 20 levels without a subscription! No killing bats, rats or beetles in a newbie yard here. You can play as many characters to lvl 20 as you like (it's a single player game until then) and when you're ready, you decide when you want to cross over and start your monthly billing.
There is MUCH more depth than what I've elluded to here, but my point is, these guys have been updating their community every week with new information.
Someone please show me what Sigil has shown? They say this is a third generation MMO, but where's the meat of this statement?
It's pretty late in the game. You've switched publishers, which has spooked some people. Give people a reason to relax and feel that they are making the right decision to come play your game. Tell us how and why your combat system is going to revolutionize MMO gameplay. Tell us why I would want to spend 40+ hours per week playing your game?
Again, I'm interested, but I'm not THAT interested. So far I see a very pretty game, that reminds me of what EQ could have been had it been made with today's technology. (not necessarily a bad thing) But EQ's ship has sailed imho. It's time for something different, something new. I really wish I could relive the old days, but I just don't see that happening so far, mainly because I don't really see anything that would set this game apart from any of the other MMO's that are currently in the works.
If there is information, videos, screenies, etc, that is contrary to what I've said, please feel free to post it here. I'll gladly eat my words if you can show me why Vanguard SOH is going to be the end all, be all.
I won't begrudge the fact that Brad McQuaid tells a mean story! (I LOVED the lore in EQ1, especially when it resulted in GM events).
But come on guys, stills are not enough, not when others are showing more of the goods.
For those of us NOT able to get to E3, show us why we should commit to you.
I also think AoC could be an interesting MMORPG.
But, just a thought -- whatcha gonna do when Funcom announces a partnership with SOE?
Start dissing AoC too?
~ Ancient Membership ~