Originally posted by Torak Originally posted by hadzOriginally posted by TorakWho is Ctrl-Alt-Del's Tim Buckley anyway? Is he an important figure in the MMO community or something? He went to E3 and saw the game...did you?well..............who is he? Does he make MMO's or something? Is he a reviewer? No, I didn't see it but I'm not the one giving my "seal of disapproval" Just asking who he is to the MMO community.
He's a member of the gaming community, he PLAYS games (just like you and me) and I trust his type of review a WHOLE lot more than I do that of many other "paid for comment" type gamesite/gamemag reviewers (who shall remain nameless).
All that being said...I am definitely going to make my own decision on Vanguard and only provided this article for comment...y'all are free to make your own decisions and draw your own conclusions too.
Originally posted by MaeEye I don't care how many people hate Sigil or hate "another" EQ, the fact is that almost every game on the market is a EQ rehash. What makes Vanguad stick out from the rest is that it's taking different direction than what most MMO's have been taking.
Vanguard looks like a star in my eyes. A new light shining in on the MMO drought. I cannot wait for Vanguard to release and let me just say this. Many people look down on Vanguard right now, but I guarantee you that will change when all the reviews come out for the game.
MaeEye out
er I think the point is that Vanguard ISN'T giving us anything new, I can't say that because I've not played it but a lot of people are.
As for "rave" reviews, DDO is getting the rave reviews it should but the game is still having trouble right now.
Originally posted by Torak Originally posted by hadz
Originally posted by Torak Who is Ctrl-Alt-Del's Tim Buckley anyway? Is he an important figure in the MMO community or something?
He went to E3 and saw the game...did you?
well..............who is he? Does he make MMO's or something? Is he a reviewer?
No, I didn't see it but I'm not the one giving my "seal of disapproval" Just asking who he is to the MMO community.
The real answer is he said something bad to say about the game and that's just what they wanted to see. If he had a good review they'd be quoting someone else. It didn't matter what he had to say or who he is, they wanted to see a bad review so they could say see it sucks and he gave them one.
Originally posted by Torak Originally posted by hadz
Originally posted by TorakWho is Ctrl-Alt-Del's Tim Buckley anyway? Is he an important figure in the MMO community or something?
He went to E3 and saw the game...did you? well..............who is he? Does he make MMO's or something? Is he a reviewer? No, I didn't see it but I'm not the one giving my "seal of disapproval" Just asking who he is to the MMO community.
He's a member of the gaming community, he PLAYS games (just like you and me) and I trust his type of review a WHOLE lot more than I do that of many other "paid for comment" type gamesite/gamemag reviewers (who shall remain nameless).
All that being said...I am definitely going to make my own decision on Vanguard and only provided this article for comment...y'all are free to make your own decisions and draw your own conclusions too.
Peace
kewl,
When I give my "seal of approval" no one listens lol. I guess I need a tip from this guy.
As far as vanguard goes, I think it looks interesting. It looks like its doing some things that other MMO's are not. The caravan idea sounds kind of interesting. I'm not sure how that will actually play out. Its a far cry from todays games with instant travel and recalls.
The boats sound nice also. I'm not much for that sort of thing but it might not be to different from SWG multiplayer ships. I love the multi player ships in SWG.
What about the diplomat skills and ideas? That sounds interesting. Never heard of anything like that in an MMO.
Sure it doesn't bring a whole lot of inovation but really, very few games do.
What I really am not to thrilled about is the fact it will probably turn out to be another grinder. We need more fantasy grinders like WoW needs more subscribers.
Also, the graphics look very nice BUT a bit on the bland side. I also don't like how all the races have human bodies. Please, even Horizons didn't completely copy the human ananomy.
Originally posted by DamonVile Originally posted by Torak Originally posted by hadzOriginally posted by TorakWho is Ctrl-Alt-Del's Tim Buckley anyway? Is he an important figure in the MMO community or something? He went to E3 and saw the game...did you?well..............who is he? Does he make MMO's or something? Is he a reviewer? No, I didn't see it but I'm not the one giving my "seal of disapproval" Just asking who he is to the MMO community. The real answer is he said something bad to say about the game and that's just what they wanted to see. If he had a good review they'd be quoting someone else. It didn't matter what he had to say or who he is, they wanted to see a bad review so they could say see it sucks and he gave them one.
Nope...actually it was the first review I saw of Vanguard out of E3 and I still haven't seen another one. Vanguard is on my radar, and I'm interested in seeing what it's like (see my other comment above). Since then I've read a bit more about it on the official site (and others) and find that there are a few new things being implement, well not new but different, like earlier mounts and ownable ships. Crafting and stuff appears to be very similar to EQ2 just with more stuff (which doesn't matter that much to me either).
Honestly, nothing really ignites my interest in this game...well except this review, and thus the post...it's all a learning exercise, I've already learned of a few things I didn't know just from this thread.
Reviewer is a moron who hasn't done his homework. Brad (And the rest of the Sigil team) have said all along that Vanguard was going back to the 'roots' of EQ... It's going to be very similar with *some* newer features but it's going back to the "hard core" version of EQ, not the easy-streat EQ2.
So V:SOH is going to be EQ1 revised with better graphics and tweaks in some areas. EQ2 is EQ1 made easy. Vanguard is EQ1 made NEW.
All the reviewer has said is, essentially, this: Brad and the team at Sigil are doing a phenomenal job of delivering exactly what they've promised.
Not saying I like that. I probably won't even play Vanguard. But criticizing a game for delivering exactly what it promises??? That's a new one.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sig image Pending Still in: A couple Betas
I think Elnator hits the nail right on the head. I was puzzled by the review myself, but regardless of what any reviewer says, I stick to my belief that everyone is different and likes different things from their games. You play what you like.
I loved EQ, and to this day, I miss the more hardcore features and difficulty of that game. I love EQ2, but I totally agree with Elnator that it IS Everquest made easy. With the success of WoW, it was made evern easier with some changes after launch. This is not the direction I wanted to see the game go, so I am very excited about Vanguard, and the change to be able to get back into a real imersive, "time-sink" of a mmorpg that I can devote my time to, and appreciate the rewards after overcoming real obstacles.
With todays games, I don't get that sense anymore.
Well, what i found funny about all this was the stratics people giving it the best in the show award, and runner up on the graphics department, i laughed myself silly when i read that.
I guess they didnt see Gears of War in action, Lost planet, Crysis, Halo 3, Gods and Heroes, Spore, Warhawk, Fall of man, too human, etc.
There were so many games that looked and played like something out of LoTR or Starwars CGI imagery.
For anyone that has played the beta, to see someone call Vanguards graphics amazing is funny to say the least. To put it bluntly, EQ1 at the momment looks better than Vanguard in every single department.
Originally posted by Elnator Reviewer is a moron who hasn't done his homework. Brad (And the rest of the Sigil team) have said all along that Vanguard was going back to the 'roots' of EQ... It's going to be very similar with *some* newer features but it's going back to the "hard core" version of EQ, not the easy-streat EQ2.
So V:SOH is going to be EQ1 revised with better graphics and tweaks in some areas. EQ2 is EQ1 made easy. Vanguard is EQ1 made NEW.
All the reviewer has said is, essentially, this: Brad and the team at Sigil are doing a phenomenal job of delivering exactly what they've promised.
Not saying I like that. I probably won't even play Vanguard. But criticizing a game for delivering exactly what it promises??? That's a new one.
but thats his point
he's not criticizing the game because they are delivering what they promised. he's saying basically what we already know is that theres nothing groundbreaking or inventive
"If you want a picture of the future, imagine a robot foot stomping on a human face -- forever."
New things are currently not envogue.Polishing games is where the gaming industry is heading .
Sad but true.Lets face it a new thing is usually means ppl trying our stuff thats well foreign to them and also not very polished and often buggy/imbalanced etc.
It is much easier to sit and wait for this games to do badly or at best a mild success and then clean the features up and present it sparkling to the public.
WoW did this and has millions of subs.So maybe we will be getting a polished version of EQ1 in vanguard and if this is so expect to see glowing reviews for it ,which will translate to huge sales.
We old time gamers want new experiences but we are but a small minority.
Yep. I would be pleased with something refreshing and new, but I would expect it to be sort of experimental, with some bugs and some uncertainty.
What I am really looking for is a mmorpg that can take what has been done in the past and get it 100% right. As mentioned above, Blizzard did this with World of Warcraft. Now I am anxious to see what Sigil will do with Vanguard, which is more my type of mmorpg by the looks of it.
I am also looking forward to seeing some new features in Vanguard. Yes, it has been agreed by many that the game will be a remaking of EQ in a way. But I also read that there will be new features built in. A mix of the old with the new is probably the best way to go. If the mmorpgs slowly evolve into something refresh and new over time, I would be happy. It would probably work out better than getting hit with something totally different right away. Even if it turns out great, it could come as quite a shock and take some time to get used to.
Vanguard will not be the mmorpg for everyone, as WoW seems to be. But at least it has a very focused development team that knows what they want and can follow their vision, without publisher inferferance and influence (as had been the case previously, apparently). I am always more interested in these games over the ones that try to do everything and please everyone (WoW).
Originally posted by Torak Who is Ctrl-Alt-Del's Tim Buckley anyway? Is he an important figure in the MMO community or something?
Some jerk-off who makes lousy comics dissing whatever the latest fanbots happen to be dissing. If you have ever laughed out loud at a Ctrl-Alt-Del comic, you probably haven't ever kissed a girl other than a family member.
For anyone that has played the beta, to see someone call Vanguards graphics amazing is funny to say the least. To put it bluntly, EQ1 at the momment looks better than Vanguard in every single department.
Maybe your computer just sucks goat nads? Also, I wonder when you are gonna stop dropping oh so subtle hints that you're in beta? Usually people who do that are lying, but they are always very, very stupid.
Well, as you can see, i am part of the beta, much to your anoyance i bet.
And i have a powerfull enough computer to run Half-life 2 with 8x AA and 16x Anisotropic at a smooth 40-50fps. And vanguard is a simple game using the unreal 2 engine, not known to be anything special at all.
Now, everyone that i have talked to that has been at E3 both this year and last year, when Vanguard was shown, have been very unimpressed by the game, the pictures that Sigil is so fond of posting on their website are clearly touched up with photoshop, either that or they are like the guys from dark and light, that claim they have a miracle build of the game they wont show their beta testers :P
I still stand by what i said, the upgraded EQ1 engine as it is now, is clearly superior to the vanguard engine in terms of gfx... i wont even talk about animation and character models, wich are a very heated topic of discussion in the beta forums, pretty much every beta tester agrees that the animations amd character models in vanguard are 10 years behind any other AAA mmorpg out there or in development.
Not realy, the devs have stated that it would be possible in theory to upgrade the engine to the unreal 3 engine, but it would take 1000´s of manhours of work to do so. I expect them to move toards the unreal 3 engine when they launch an expansion to the game and possibly the version would only be avaible for windows vista.
As sboth MS and Sigil have stated, they want to integrate vanguard into their windows vista gaming platform, wich is directx10 only, Sigil could work on an updated engine for directx10, as CCP is doing with eve online, but have no doubt, this is very very low on their priority list, it will take close to a year, possibly more, just to get the game ready to ship, considering the state it is in at the momment. So any move to the unreal 3 engine will be far into the future.
Originally posted by Xiaoki With the MMORPG market in the state it is now most people don't want yet another EQ clone whether or nor it's "done the right way" or not. We've had pretty much nothing but fantasy elf crap EQ clones for the past 7 years and it's done gone stale. The EQ style "get a sandwich" combat system has run it's course and needs to be retired and getting to level 10 is guaranteed to take more than a month is not a selling point anymore. Also, playing EQ1 or Vanguard or any game like them doesn't make you "hardcore", it makes you the only people willing to tolerate antiquated gameplay.
I am telling you, pong is set for a video game comeback!
Originally posted by MaeEye Many people look down on Vanguard right now, but I guarantee you that will change when all the reviews come out for the game.
Unless they remove raiding, I can promise you that you are wrong.
EQ and EQ2 have all what Vanguard is proposing, without maybe the graphics...I play EQ2 a single week and I never return to old EQ despite having a well round toon. I play WoW a single day. If you remove raiding, I would still be playing EQ.
WoW is burning through the raiding tolerance of the players in general, if Vanguard was planning to jump on a market who was not raid-burned, they are in for some wake-up call.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Originally posted by Anofalye Originally posted by MaeEye Many people look down on Vanguard right now, but I guarantee you that will change when all the reviews come out for the game.
Unless they remove raiding, I can promise you that you are wrong.
EQ and EQ2 have all what Vanguard is proposing, without maybe the graphics...I play EQ2 a single week and I never return to old EQ despite having a well round toon. I play WoW a single day. If you remove raiding, I would still be playing EQ.
WoW is burning through the raiding tolerance of the players in general, if Vanguard was planning to jump on a market who was not raid-burned, they are in for some wake-up call.
I think you are right on this point. There is a burnout and it is not clear that people will pay to do this in another game...
Originally posted by Anofalye Unless they remove raiding, I can promise you that you are wrong.
Exactly, I don't even care about the other stuff in the game, Vanguard is completely off of my list of games to play since they've decided to make it a raid game. It doesn't really matter what any reviewers say, I'm not interested in a raiding game at all. There's other stuff about the game that I find questionable, especially Brad's stated like of content that takes large blocks of time and very low drop-rate items, but even if the rest of the game was my dream game I wouldn't be interested.
WoW is burning through the raiding tolerance of the players in general, if Vanguard was planning to jump on a market who was not raid-burned, they are in for some wake-up call.
WOW demonstrated to me that my raiding tolerance was about 3 trips to MC and 4 or so to ZG. Not for one week, or month, or year, but for life - I will never set foot in another PVE raid, and won't pay one cent for a game that would try to force me to like Vanguard. I know a lot of people who left WOW after finding that the endgame was raids, trying them out, then discovering that they either hated raiding or hated the process of attempting to raid.
Originally posted by Anofalye Unless they remove raiding, I can promise you that you are wrong.
Exactly, I don't even care about the other stuff in the game, Vanguard is completely off of my list of games to play since they've decided to make it a raid game. It doesn't really matter what any reviewers say, I'm not interested in a raiding game at all. There's other stuff about the game that I find questionable, especially Brad's stated like of content that takes large blocks of time and very low drop-rate items, but even if the rest of the game was my dream game I wouldn't be interested.
WoW is burning through the raiding tolerance of the players in general, if Vanguard was planning to jump on a market who was not raid-burned, they are in for some wake-up call.
WOW demonstrated to me that my raiding tolerance was about 3 trips to MC and 4 or so to ZG. Not for one week, or month, or year, but for life - I will never set foot in another PVE raid, and won't pay one cent for a game that would try to force me to like Vanguard. I know a lot of people who left WOW after finding that the endgame was raids, trying them out, then discovering that they either hated raiding or hated the process of attempting to raid.
*nod*
What those MMO 'devs' fail to realise is that the vast overwhelming majority of QUIET players strongly dislike raiding! I am not part of this quiet majority, I am a chatty one very community and group oriented (despite my perpetual clashing opinion with raid-oriented folks).
99% of the peoples who dislike raiding don't care writing on internet forum, they go play other games or do other activities.
Most raiders are active members of the online communities and they often have many identities.
So make the math...for each person approving raiding online, there are about 0,8 player behind (multiples accounts/identities). For each person finding raiding a major annoyance, there are easily a hundred who just left quietly, not bothering to talk, complain or anything, just walking away! 1 person supporting 5 accounts might mean the same money for the company as 5 players, but the game is a LOT richer with 5 in-game player to experience and group with, not to mention that they are likely to be friendly and nice!
And I see more and more peoples complaining against raiding, which is extremely encouraging, because behind your post, I know there are a LOT of players who don't bother posting! (on this precise topic only, can't assume they think like me or you on other topic) The average player who is unhappy about raiding usually think HE is the problem, because Uber Guild 07 told him so...so they leave quietly, not sure if they should be ashame to not have fun or if they should feel pity toward those guys...but me I feel no pity, I am no better and no worser and I just want a very good game, so I defend my opinions, even if clumsily in frenglish!
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Originally posted by wjrasmussen I think you are right on this point. There is a burnout and it is not clear that people will pay to do this in another game...
Despite your sarcasm, you are prooving my point, against your wish. Peoples don't spend a LOT of time raiding. Check on WoW data, you will see that MOST are grouping/soloing...
Yet, when peoples QUIT the game, RAIDING take a very proeminent role as the main reason soo many players left. So, if less than 5% of the players currently online are raiding, but 70% of the players leaving state raiding among the reasons they left...why not remove raiding right away? Even in old EQ, the currently online players raiding was always a minority, no matter what Brad or Smed want you to believe.
And I am not even considering what the % would be if those who left because of raiding would still be playing and never left, you clearly see that 5% dropping under 1%. Raiding in it current form is appealing to a minority that are no better than gankers are to PvP.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
I don't know where most of you guys get this idea that the game is about raiding. The focus, the crux of the game is about group play, not raiding. If we were to separate it into percentages, it would probably come out something like 70% group play, 15% solo and raiding each. And that's not even counting the crafting system or the diplomacy systems that will come into play.
Unless they remove raiding, I can promise you that you are wrong.
EQ and EQ2 have all what Vanguard is proposing, without maybe the graphics...I play EQ2 a single week and I never return to old EQ despite having a well round toon. I play WoW a single day. If you remove raiding, I would still be playing EQ.
WoW is burning through the raiding tolerance of the players in general, if Vanguard was planning to jump on a market who was not raid-burned, they are in for some wake-up call.
Actually can't speak for all but for me i never burnt out on raiding concept in WoW.It was the repeative raiding of 3-4 zones thta got me and zones like MC and BWL were not even very inspiring compared to EQ series raid zones that i remembered.
If they do intresting and plentiful raid zones i am sure there is a good market for it.
Modica, Vanguard is clearly going to be about raiding in the sense that the guy making it has said quite clearly that if you want the best gear, you'll have to raid. Raiding may be only 20% (or 15% or whatever) of the content, but you will have to choose between either doing that content or having inferior gear to someone who does. That qualifies it as a raid game in my book.
Comments
He's a member of the gaming community, he PLAYS games (just like you and me) and I trust his type of review a WHOLE lot more than I do that of many other "paid for comment" type gamesite/gamemag reviewers (who shall remain nameless).
All that being said...I am definitely going to make my own decision on Vanguard and only provided this article for comment...y'all are free to make your own decisions and draw your own conclusions too.
Peace
As for "rave" reviews, DDO is getting the rave reviews it should but the game is still having trouble right now.
He went to E3 and saw the game...did you?
well..............who is he? Does he make MMO's or something? Is he a reviewer?
No, I didn't see it but I'm not the one giving my "seal of disapproval" Just asking who he is to the MMO community.
The real answer is he said something bad to say about the game and that's just what they wanted to see. If he had a good review they'd be quoting someone else. It didn't matter what he had to say or who he is, they wanted to see a bad review so they could say see it sucks and he gave them one.
He's a member of the gaming community, he PLAYS games (just like you and me) and I trust his type of review a WHOLE lot more than I do that of many other "paid for comment" type gamesite/gamemag reviewers (who shall remain nameless).
All that being said...I am definitely going to make my own decision on Vanguard and only provided this article for comment...y'all are free to make your own decisions and draw your own conclusions too.
Peace
kewl,
When I give my "seal of approval" no one listens lol. I guess I need a tip from this guy.
As far as vanguard goes, I think it looks interesting. It looks like its doing some things that other MMO's are not. The caravan idea sounds kind of interesting. I'm not sure how that will actually play out. Its a far cry from todays games with instant travel and recalls.
The boats sound nice also. I'm not much for that sort of thing but it might not be to different from SWG multiplayer ships. I love the multi player ships in SWG.
What about the diplomat skills and ideas? That sounds interesting. Never heard of anything like that in an MMO.
Sure it doesn't bring a whole lot of inovation but really, very few games do.
What I really am not to thrilled about is the fact it will probably turn out to be another grinder. We need more fantasy grinders like WoW needs more subscribers.
Also, the graphics look very nice BUT a bit on the bland side. I also don't like how all the races have human bodies. Please, even Horizons didn't completely copy the human ananomy.
Nope...actually it was the first review I saw of Vanguard out of E3 and I still haven't seen another one. Vanguard is on my radar, and I'm interested in seeing what it's like (see my other comment above). Since then I've read a bit more about it on the official site (and others) and find that there are a few new things being implement, well not new but different, like earlier mounts and ownable ships. Crafting and stuff appears to be very similar to EQ2 just with more stuff (which doesn't matter that much to me either).
Honestly, nothing really ignites my interest in this game...well except this review, and thus the post...it's all a learning exercise, I've already learned of a few things I didn't know just from this thread.
Peace
So V:SOH is going to be EQ1 revised with better graphics and tweaks in some areas. EQ2 is EQ1 made easy. Vanguard is EQ1 made NEW.
All the reviewer has said is, essentially, this:
Brad and the team at Sigil are doing a phenomenal job of delivering exactly what they've promised.
Not saying I like that. I probably won't even play Vanguard. But criticizing a game for delivering exactly what it promises??? That's a new one.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
I think Elnator hits the nail right on the head. I was puzzled by the review myself, but regardless of what any reviewer says, I stick to my belief that everyone is different and likes different things from their games. You play what you like.
I loved EQ, and to this day, I miss the more hardcore features and difficulty of that game. I love EQ2, but I totally agree with Elnator that it IS Everquest made easy. With the success of WoW, it was made evern easier with some changes after launch. This is not the direction I wanted to see the game go, so I am very excited about Vanguard, and the change to be able to get back into a real imersive, "time-sink" of a mmorpg that I can devote my time to, and appreciate the rewards after overcoming real obstacles.
With todays games, I don't get that sense anymore.
I guess they didnt see Gears of War in action, Lost planet, Crysis, Halo 3, Gods and Heroes, Spore, Warhawk, Fall of man, too human, etc.
There were so many games that looked and played like something out of LoTR or Starwars CGI imagery.
For anyone that has played the beta, to see someone call Vanguards graphics amazing is funny to say the least. To put it bluntly, EQ1 at the momment looks better than Vanguard in every single department.
All ur Mountain Dew is belong to me.
but thats his point
he's not criticizing the game because they are delivering what they promised. he's saying basically what we already know is that theres nothing groundbreaking or inventive
"If you want a picture of the future, imagine a robot foot stomping on a human face -- forever."
New things are currently not envogue.Polishing games is where the gaming industry is heading .
Sad but true.Lets face it a new thing is usually means ppl trying our stuff thats well foreign to them and also not very polished and often buggy/imbalanced etc.
It is much easier to sit and wait for this games to do badly or at best a mild success and then clean the features up and present it sparkling to the public.
WoW did this and has millions of subs.So maybe we will be getting a polished version of EQ1 in vanguard and if this is so expect to see glowing reviews for it ,which will translate to huge sales.
We old time gamers want new experiences but we are but a small minority.
I plan on trying vanguard and conan anyhow .
Yep. I would be pleased with something refreshing and new, but I would expect it to be sort of experimental, with some bugs and some uncertainty.
What I am really looking for is a mmorpg that can take what has been done in the past and get it 100% right. As mentioned above, Blizzard did this with World of Warcraft. Now I am anxious to see what Sigil will do with Vanguard, which is more my type of mmorpg by the looks of it.
I am also looking forward to seeing some new features in Vanguard. Yes, it has been agreed by many that the game will be a remaking of EQ in a way. But I also read that there will be new features built in. A mix of the old with the new is probably the best way to go. If the mmorpgs slowly evolve into something refresh and new over time, I would be happy. It would probably work out better than getting hit with something totally different right away. Even if it turns out great, it could come as quite a shock and take some time to get used to.
Vanguard will not be the mmorpg for everyone, as WoW seems to be. But at least it has a very focused development team that knows what they want and can follow their vision, without publisher inferferance and influence (as had been the case previously, apparently). I am always more interested in these games over the ones that try to do everything and please everyone (WoW).
Well, as you can see, i am part of the beta, much to your anoyance i bet.
And i have a powerfull enough computer to run Half-life 2 with 8x AA and 16x Anisotropic at a smooth 40-50fps. And vanguard is a simple game using the unreal 2 engine, not known to be anything special at all.
Now, everyone that i have talked to that has been at E3 both this year and last year, when Vanguard was shown, have been very unimpressed by the game, the pictures that Sigil is so fond of posting on their website are clearly touched up with photoshop, either that or they are like the guys from dark and light, that claim they have a miracle build of the game they wont show their beta testers :P
I still stand by what i said, the upgraded EQ1 engine as it is now, is clearly superior to the vanguard engine in terms of gfx... i wont even talk about animation and character models, wich are a very heated topic of discussion in the beta forums, pretty much every beta tester agrees that the animations amd character models in vanguard are 10 years behind any other AAA mmorpg out there or in development.
All ur Mountain Dew is belong to me.
As sboth MS and Sigil have stated, they want to integrate vanguard into their windows vista gaming platform, wich is directx10 only, Sigil could work on an updated engine for directx10, as CCP is doing with eve online, but have no doubt, this is very very low on their priority list, it will take close to a year, possibly more, just to get the game ready to ship, considering the state it is in at the momment. So any move to the unreal 3 engine will be far into the future.
All ur Mountain Dew is belong to me.
Unless they remove raiding, I can promise you that you are wrong.
EQ and EQ2 have all what Vanguard is proposing, without maybe the graphics...I play EQ2 a single week and I never return to old EQ despite having a well round toon. I play WoW a single day. If you remove raiding, I would still be playing EQ.
WoW is burning through the raiding tolerance of the players in general, if Vanguard was planning to jump on a market who was not raid-burned, they are in for some wake-up call.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Unless they remove raiding, I can promise you that you are wrong.
EQ and EQ2 have all what Vanguard is proposing, without maybe the graphics...I play EQ2 a single week and I never return to old EQ despite having a well round toon. I play WoW a single day. If you remove raiding, I would still be playing EQ.
WoW is burning through the raiding tolerance of the players in general, if Vanguard was planning to jump on a market who was not raid-burned, they are in for some wake-up call.
I think you are right on this point. There is a burnout and it is not clear that people will pay to do this in another game...
Exactly, I don't even care about the other stuff in the game, Vanguard is completely off of my list of games to play since they've decided to make it a raid game. It doesn't really matter what any reviewers say, I'm not interested in a raiding game at all. There's other stuff about the game that I find questionable, especially Brad's stated like of content that takes large blocks of time and very low drop-rate items, but even if the rest of the game was my dream game I wouldn't be interested.
WOW demonstrated to me that my raiding tolerance was about 3 trips to MC and 4 or so to ZG. Not for one week, or month, or year, but for life - I will never set foot in another PVE raid, and won't pay one cent for a game that would try to force me to like Vanguard. I know a lot of people who left WOW after finding that the endgame was raids, trying them out, then discovering that they either hated raiding or hated the process of attempting to raid.
Exactly, I don't even care about the other stuff in the game, Vanguard is completely off of my list of games to play since they've decided to make it a raid game. It doesn't really matter what any reviewers say, I'm not interested in a raiding game at all. There's other stuff about the game that I find questionable, especially Brad's stated like of content that takes large blocks of time and very low drop-rate items, but even if the rest of the game was my dream game I wouldn't be interested.
WOW demonstrated to me that my raiding tolerance was about 3 trips to MC and 4 or so to ZG. Not for one week, or month, or year, but for life - I will never set foot in another PVE raid, and won't pay one cent for a game that would try to force me to like Vanguard. I know a lot of people who left WOW after finding that the endgame was raids, trying them out, then discovering that they either hated raiding or hated the process of attempting to raid.
*nod*
What those MMO 'devs' fail to realise is that the vast overwhelming majority of QUIET players strongly dislike raiding! I am not part of this quiet majority, I am a chatty one very community and group oriented (despite my perpetual clashing opinion with raid-oriented folks).
99% of the peoples who dislike raiding don't care writing on internet forum, they go play other games or do other activities.
Most raiders are active members of the online communities and they often have many identities.
So make the math...for each person approving raiding online, there are about 0,8 player behind (multiples accounts/identities). For each person finding raiding a major annoyance, there are easily a hundred who just left quietly, not bothering to talk, complain or anything, just walking away! 1 person supporting 5 accounts might mean the same money for the company as 5 players, but the game is a LOT richer with 5 in-game player to experience and group with, not to mention that they are likely to be friendly and nice!
And I see more and more peoples complaining against raiding, which is extremely encouraging, because behind your post, I know there are a LOT of players who don't bother posting! (on this precise topic only, can't assume they think like me or you on other topic) The average player who is unhappy about raiding usually think HE is the problem, because Uber Guild 07 told him so...so they leave quietly, not sure if they should be ashame to not have fun or if they should feel pity toward those guys...but me I feel no pity, I am no better and no worser and I just want a very good game, so I defend my opinions, even if clumsily in frenglish!
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Despite your sarcasm, you are prooving my point, against your wish. Peoples don't spend a LOT of time raiding. Check on WoW data, you will see that MOST are grouping/soloing...
Yet, when peoples QUIT the game, RAIDING take a very proeminent role as the main reason soo many players left. So, if less than 5% of the players currently online are raiding, but 70% of the players leaving state raiding among the reasons they left...why not remove raiding right away? Even in old EQ, the currently online players raiding was always a minority, no matter what Brad or Smed want you to believe.
And I am not even considering what the % would be if those who left because of raiding would still be playing and never left, you clearly see that 5% dropping under 1%. Raiding in it current form is appealing to a minority that are no better than gankers are to PvP.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Actually can't speak for all but for me i never burnt out on raiding concept in WoW.It was the repeative raiding of 3-4 zones thta got me and zones like MC and BWL were not even very inspiring compared to EQ series raid zones that i remembered.
If they do intresting and plentiful raid zones i am sure there is a good market for it.
Modica, Vanguard is clearly going to be about raiding in the sense that the guy making it has said quite clearly that if you want the best gear, you'll have to raid. Raiding may be only 20% (or 15% or whatever) of the content, but you will have to choose between either doing that content or having inferior gear to someone who does. That qualifies it as a raid game in my book.