Originally posted by n2sooners Originally posted by sebbonx
Excellant post and exactly why I despise Sony and Brad of Vanguard!
So, you hate Brad because he ruined SWG???
If you read the post he quoted, you'll see that it wasn't about what they did to the game, but about the way they treat their customers. The attitude of this is how it's going to be and we don't care how many of you don't like it, is what I posted about. Funny thing is, it's pretty much the same attitude Brad comes across with when discussing the SOE deal.
GET OVER EQ1 and SWG if you still have sand in your Vag over those two games (southpark reference) you need counseling. None of the rest of us want to hear your continual moaning about it.
First while I didn't work for SOE I dated an soe employee for almost 4 years and spent quality time at the Saint Louis and San Diego offices over the years. I spent my fridays and saturdays out with devs of many of the teams and have years of experience listening to their workplace woes.
1) All of the SWG talk is coming from rumors and anti-soe hype. You have no clue what SWG was like on internal testing and some of the things SOE wanted to do. Ultimately LUCAS. YES YOUR MIGHTY LUCAS, killed SWG. They had 4 Lucas reps almost constantly in Austin with their grubby little fingers in on everything involved. When you have outside sources disturbing the designers you're almost destined to fail. That is where SOE fails often times at MMO's. Smed (and whoever has him by the balls at the time) have far too much influence over the games. Dallas (the person not the city) took over and quickly left due to these same issues. Smed is also responsible for the failure of Planetside. The game had major lag issues and a ton of awesome content that wasnt quite finished or was wiped out so he could get a product out the door. (Orbital Stations, Sanctuary Attacks, Shifter (PVE mobs). So get it straight... Lucas killed SWG because they know crap about video games, all other blame goes to Smed for trying to be CEO/Producer.
2) You are way off with Vanguard. SOE had little to do with the content of VSOH. If anything it was a trimming of the fat on their part. I remember going to an SOE art team function at the beach one day with a few people from sigil in 2003 where they were sniping people to leave SOE and come work for Sigil. Every one of them that left said the same thing a few years later, Sigil was a bigger shit storm than SOE ever thought about being. Brad is horrible and doesnt know what he's doing. He's more out of control than Dave G. was on Planetside, all common quotes from former SOE employees. In the end VSOH was destined for failure but SOE took it on to make a buck much like they did with the matrix online. All the content was done, all they do is moderate, maintain, and handle future updates. Brad is trying to be an intraweb hero and save some face over trying to save some cash and sell VSOH.
3) There is NO I REPEAT NO GODS AND HEROES TEAM AT SOE IN SAN DIEGO. NADA ZIP ZILCH. SOE HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS GAME OUTSIDE THE TALKS OF PUBLISHING WHICH HAVE NOT BEEN FINALIZED.
... they [Lucasarts] know crap about video games...
FAIL
They know little about MMOs considering their one foray into the genre is craptacular (now), but they have produced plenty of great games over the years.
One good thing about Sony's involvment - it will keep people like Salvatoris away. Good riddance, buddy. I'm thankful we won't have your arrogance to deal with in game. Somehow I think we'll manage to get along without you.
I don't think it matters much, sure they are involved in it, but what they are doing is the easy work in a sence. While PE does all the back bone work like costumer service, server, ect.. SOE will be simply distrubuting the game (which they are good at) all around north america. Dont be angry at PE for this. This is a very good move, it will alow a much wider range of players to the game, and easy access. Yes they could of probably found other companies, but im sure sony will do a good job at it. They will not be altering the game, they will not be in anyway shape or form be part of the game they are just distrubuting it which really in my oppinion, is fine and dandy .
Only printing CDs huh? They said that about Vanguard to, then bought it out on the last minute. Now Vanguard a dead game and it's not even been out a year.
Sony in general have prooven many times that they have to lie to get customers, even if they are only customers for a short time before they realise how bad they are.
It's pretty clear by now that soon as SOE gets involved with an MMO in even a small way it WILL fail, just on the back of their reputation.
Sigh. EQ2 isn't a failure. EQ wasn't a faiure. Vanguard, dismal a failure as that is, is not a 'dead' game, and that's due to SOE's continued investment.
It seems that quite a few games associated with SOE fail. Whether they buy/take on failing games and/or produce failing games i don't know.
I just noticed that POTBS has been associated with SOE as well.
I can not, for the life of me, understand how any game producer would want their product associated with SOE, given the bad feeling a lot of people have towards SOE.
In the vicious world of MMORPGs you need all the help you can get when launching a game, and starting out by alienating a lot of hardcore gamers does not make good business sense.
Don't the people at these companies know about the bad feeling towards SOE or is there no other option then to go to SOE to get their game on the market?
Same thing can be said about Vanguad, it was absolute and utter madness releasing a game that is not finished in this day and age, especially an mmorpg that requires a monthly fee.
And what do SOE do, take it on board, why, to strengthen their position of being associated with bad/failing games??
As for SOE themselves i would advise them to get rid of all their games, disband SOE and start again under another name.
Developers side with Sony Platform Publishing (SPP), not SOE for a number of reasons but the main ones are that SPP are good at getting the product on the shelves and that they have the deals with stores in place to amounts of shelf space ... and shelf space means sales and we all know what sales mean don't we????
I am definitely no fan of SOE, but I am mature enough to know taht it wasn't just them that messed up SWG .... don't forget that Lucas Arts were there in the background and if you read the officlal blurb about the relationship you will see that Lucas had control over direction and timelines, so that would make them as much as, or more, guilty of the screw ups ...
SOE's MMO strategy appears to be as a MMO consolidator - they offer a lot of MMOs under the one pass. Not all of those MMOs will interest everyone, but hopefully they have two or three that might get you to pay for a Station Pass.
I don't care if SOE publishes or not, but it's a bit unfair to say that the games failed because SOE got hold of them. SWG had a lot of Lucasarts interference. Vangard was a disaster waiting to happen. The Matrix Online never really got off the ground and was allegedly part of a deal so that SOE could get the DC MMO license.
Would some of these games been more succesful if they'd been particularly focused on (instead of being part of a big group)? Possibly. But it's also true that some of the games would no longer be around if not supported by SOE and an all-access pass.
I was a long-time beta tester for Gods and Heroes and admit i am rather upset over the shelving of the game, BUT i do understand why it had to be done.On top of consuming alot of resources at Perpetual, progress on the beta was going rather slowly.I realize this is likely due tp pressure to finish STO in time for the release of the much anticipated J.J. Abrams's Star Trek movie next year.Perpetual clearly states that they are adding significant staff to STO, and i am guessing development on that game is going at a acceptable rate.
My only worry is that the same thign could possibly end up happening to STO itself and hope beyond hope it doesn't.I'm about as big of a Trek fan as you can get and have been into it since the 70's.Who knows.Maybe i'll be lucky enough to be chosen to be a beta tester for STO as well.Being a tester for G&H was fun, but unfortunately there's nothing left to do but moe on and place our hope with STO.Maybe G&H can be unshelved once development on Perpetual's other projects come to a close.
It seems that quite a few games associated with SOE fail. Whether they buy/take on failing games and/or produce failing games i don't know. I can not, for the life of me, understand how any game producer would want their product associated with SOE, given the bad feeling a lot of people have towards SOE. Don't the people at these companies know about the bad feeling towards SOE or is there no other option then to go to SOE to get their game on the market? Same thing can be said about Vanguad, it was absolute and utter madness releasing a game that is not finished in this day and age, especially an mmorpg that requires a monthly fee.
Hmm - a bit short on facts here are we?
quite a few games associated with SOE fail - uhm... if you look at all the games that have been announced and then died over the past 5 years, SOE has a much better track record than most.
If 50 games die or are cancelled, and ONE of those is an SOE game, then 90% of the hate is directed at SOE, not the other 49 companies.
And not sure what the connection is to G&H cancelling is to SOE? SOE was not involved in the development, so please explain why SOE is to blame here? Your poor example of Vanguard is exactly the same - Brad destroyed any chance of success for VG, not SOE.
But of course none of this fits in with any of the preconceived Hate SOE At Any Cost mindset. It gets so ridiculous that I have seen SOE blamed for LOTRO....
SOE has a better track record of games launched with their logo on it when compared to the rest of the industry?
Care to share what games SOE (or SOE publishing) has launched that was succesful? Not one has been released in a "non-beta" state yet and all have seen populations plummet within several months after launch. Now you can add a cancelation.
It doesn't matter if 230579342059 games launched and failed from other companies as if that somehow makes SOE look good in comparison?
Every SOE launch has been pretty miserable. Some truth (SOEs fault) some Perception (Sigil/PE), but at the end of the day the SOE brand has a very bad track record overall.
SoE had nothing to do with the failure of GnH, it's all PE people. The management of this company is full of drooling vegetables throwing darts at an idea board.
"Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves." ~ Ronald Reagan
Comments
soe is garbage, they shoud get out og the gaming industry. end of discussion. let them fall in the depts of hades
Everything Happens For A Reason! "Shadowziel"
If you read the post he quoted, you'll see that it wasn't about what they did to the game, but about the way they treat their customers. The attitude of this is how it's going to be and we don't care how many of you don't like it, is what I posted about. Funny thing is, it's pretty much the same attitude Brad comes across with when discussing the SOE deal.
GET OVER EQ1 and SWG if you still have sand in your Vag over those two games (southpark reference) you need counseling. None of the rest of us want to hear your continual moaning about it.
P.S. SHUT IT!
Let me clear the air about a lot of things
First while I didn't work for SOE I dated an soe employee for almost 4 years and spent quality time at the Saint Louis and San Diego offices over the years. I spent my fridays and saturdays out with devs of many of the teams and have years of experience listening to their workplace woes.
1) All of the SWG talk is coming from rumors and anti-soe hype. You have no clue what SWG was like on internal testing and some of the things SOE wanted to do. Ultimately LUCAS. YES YOUR MIGHTY LUCAS, killed SWG. They had 4 Lucas reps almost constantly in Austin with their grubby little fingers in on everything involved. When you have outside sources disturbing the designers you're almost destined to fail. That is where SOE fails often times at MMO's. Smed (and whoever has him by the balls at the time) have far too much influence over the games. Dallas (the person not the city) took over and quickly left due to these same issues. Smed is also responsible for the failure of Planetside. The game had major lag issues and a ton of awesome content that wasnt quite finished or was wiped out so he could get a product out the door. (Orbital Stations, Sanctuary Attacks, Shifter (PVE mobs). So get it straight... Lucas killed SWG because they know crap about video games, all other blame goes to Smed for trying to be CEO/Producer.
2) You are way off with Vanguard. SOE had little to do with the content of VSOH. If anything it was a trimming of the fat on their part. I remember going to an SOE art team function at the beach one day with a few people from sigil in 2003 where they were sniping people to leave SOE and come work for Sigil. Every one of them that left said the same thing a few years later, Sigil was a bigger shit storm than SOE ever thought about being. Brad is horrible and doesnt know what he's doing. He's more out of control than Dave G. was on Planetside, all common quotes from former SOE employees. In the end VSOH was destined for failure but SOE took it on to make a buck much like they did with the matrix online. All the content was done, all they do is moderate, maintain, and handle future updates. Brad is trying to be an intraweb hero and save some face over trying to save some cash and sell VSOH.
3) There is NO I REPEAT NO GODS AND HEROES TEAM AT SOE IN SAN DIEGO. NADA ZIP ZILCH. SOE HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS GAME OUTSIDE THE TALKS OF PUBLISHING WHICH HAVE NOT BEEN FINALIZED.
Hello, my name is cameron and i hate SoE *sits back down*
Has anyone ever mentioned to you all that the more you stir shit the more it stinks? Put the stick down and go spend your time elsewhere.
They know little about MMOs considering their one foray into the genre is craptacular (now), but they have produced plenty of great games over the years.
Previous played: SWG (pre-NGE), DAoC, CoH, Anarchy Online, DDO, Champions Online Beta, LOTRO, GW2, SWTOR
Will you be able to manage without me also?
I don't think it matters much, sure they are involved in it, but what they are doing is the easy work in a sence. While PE does all the back bone work like costumer service, server, ect.. SOE will be simply distrubuting the game (which they are good at) all around north america. Dont be angry at PE for this. This is a very good move, it will alow a much wider range of players to the game, and easy access. Yes they could of probably found other companies, but im sure sony will do a good job at it. They will not be altering the game, they will not be in anyway shape or form be part of the game they are just distrubuting it which really in my oppinion, is fine and dandy
.
xxkevmachinexx
Only printing CDs huh? They said that about Vanguard to, then bought it out on the last minute. Now Vanguard a dead game and it's not even been out a year.
Sony in general have prooven many times that they have to lie to get customers, even if they are only customers for a short time before they realise how bad they are.
It's pretty clear by now that soon as SOE gets involved with an MMO in even a small way it WILL fail, just on the back of their reputation.
Sigh. EQ2 isn't a failure. EQ wasn't a faiure. Vanguard, dismal a failure as that is, is not a 'dead' game, and that's due to SOE's continued investment.
Do a little research next time.
It seems that quite a few games associated with SOE fail. Whether they buy/take on failing games and/or produce failing games i don't know.
I just noticed that POTBS has been associated with SOE as well.
I can not, for the life of me, understand how any game producer would want their product associated with SOE, given the bad feeling a lot of people have towards SOE.
In the vicious world of MMORPGs you need all the help you can get when launching a game, and starting out by alienating a lot of hardcore gamers does not make good business sense.
Don't the people at these companies know about the bad feeling towards SOE or is there no other option then to go to SOE to get their game on the market?
Same thing can be said about Vanguad, it was absolute and utter madness releasing a game that is not finished in this day and age, especially an mmorpg that requires a monthly fee.
And what do SOE do, take it on board, why, to strengthen their position of being associated with bad/failing games??
As for SOE themselves i would advise them to get rid of all their games, disband SOE and start again under another name.
SOE is poison to any MMO title. They will never again be associated with a success.
Developers side with Sony Platform Publishing (SPP), not SOE for a number of reasons but the main ones are that SPP are good at getting the product on the shelves and that they have the deals with stores in place to amounts of shelf space ... and shelf space means sales and we all know what sales mean don't we????
I am definitely no fan of SOE, but I am mature enough to know taht it wasn't just them that messed up SWG .... don't forget that Lucas Arts were there in the background and if you read the officlal blurb about the relationship you will see that Lucas had control over direction and timelines, so that would make them as much as, or more, guilty of the screw ups ...
SOE's MMO strategy appears to be as a MMO consolidator - they offer a lot of MMOs under the one pass. Not all of those MMOs will interest everyone, but hopefully they have two or three that might get you to pay for a Station Pass.
I don't care if SOE publishes or not, but it's a bit unfair to say that the games failed because SOE got hold of them. SWG had a lot of Lucasarts interference. Vangard was a disaster waiting to happen. The Matrix Online never really got off the ground and was allegedly part of a deal so that SOE could get the DC MMO license.
Would some of these games been more succesful if they'd been particularly focused on (instead of being part of a big group)? Possibly. But it's also true that some of the games would no longer be around if not supported by SOE and an all-access pass.
May SOE burn in the vile pits of OBLIVION as the putrid creatures there feast on there souls! MUHAHAH !
I hate SOE.
KILL THEM ALL!!!
I was a long-time beta tester for Gods and Heroes and admit i am rather upset over the shelving of the game, BUT i do understand why it had to be done.On top of consuming alot of resources at Perpetual, progress on the beta was going rather slowly.I realize this is likely due tp pressure to finish STO in time for the release of the much anticipated J.J. Abrams's Star Trek movie next year.Perpetual clearly states that they are adding significant staff to STO, and i am guessing development on that game is going at a acceptable rate.
My only worry is that the same thign could possibly end up happening to STO itself and hope beyond hope it doesn't.I'm about as big of a Trek fan as you can get and have been into it since the 70's.Who knows.Maybe i'll be lucky enough to be chosen to be a beta tester for STO as well.Being a tester for G&H was fun, but unfortunately there's nothing left to do but moe on and place our hope with STO.Maybe G&H can be unshelved once development on Perpetual's other projects come to a close.
quite a few games associated with SOE fail - uhm... if you look at all the games that have been announced and then died over the past 5 years, SOE has a much better track record than most.
If 50 games die or are cancelled, and ONE of those is an SOE game, then 90% of the hate is directed at SOE, not the other 49 companies.
And not sure what the connection is to G&H cancelling is to SOE? SOE was not involved in the development, so please explain why SOE is to blame here? Your poor example of Vanguard is exactly the same - Brad destroyed any chance of success for VG, not SOE.
But of course none of this fits in with any of the preconceived Hate SOE At Any Cost mindset. It gets so ridiculous that I have seen SOE blamed for LOTRO....
SOE has a better track record of games launched with their logo on it when compared to the rest of the industry?
Care to share what games SOE (or SOE publishing) has launched that was succesful? Not one has been released in a "non-beta" state yet and all have seen populations plummet within several months after launch. Now you can add a cancelation.
It doesn't matter if 230579342059 games launched and failed from other companies as if that somehow makes SOE look good in comparison?
Every SOE launch has been pretty miserable. Some truth (SOEs fault) some Perception (Sigil/PE), but at the end of the day the SOE brand has a very bad track record overall.
SoE had nothing to do with the failure of GnH, it's all PE people. The management of this company is full of drooling vegetables throwing darts at an idea board.
"Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves." ~ Ronald Reagan
This thread doesn't seem so appropriate any more..... ( ' :
Yah, if anyone official stops by we might want to have this thread un-pinned.
On second thought ... I still hate SOE so meh... keep it :P
This thread seems irrelevant now, let's all move on.
Someone please delete, or un-pin this thread !