I believe in what Aikes is saying is true. SOE is not cancelling the dead accounts ( but they are not reactivating my 4 banned one either). I think when SOE says they are at 190k subs is not subscriptions but the monthy comsumption of Subs from Subway by the staff. Eat Fresh!
Originally posted by Spathotan Originally posted by Elnator Originally posted by Spathotan Originally posted by Elnator Originally posted by Spathotan That guys numbers are bullshit. I know for a fact FFXI, EQ2 and CoH/V have more subscriptions than that.
Just exactly what factual data are you basing that on? I'd like to know because I'm interested in that kind of factual data about games from a purely academic standpoint.
I figured it was just a matter of time before the resident know-it-all showed up. Anyways ill enlighten you.
Im baseing it on having played all 3 of those games within the last year for at least 3 months. I played CoV for 3 months, FFXI for about 5 and EQ2 for around 7. You are right, its not fact, but I can assure even you that what I said is legit from what I saw in those games. I have no reason to lie, I dont currently play any of those 3 anymore.
Ive read all the post after the one ive quoted here, and I saw the stuff X person said about CoH/V and I ackwoledge that, thanks for the info. Ive also seen you tell one person you KNOW UO has at least those said numbers because you have a friend who plays. You dont even play the game yourself, so you are going by what he/she tells you, yet you attempt to "learn me" by challenging my statement? At this point im realizing your post was merely flamebait, but im not gonna delete all this.
I wasn't attempting to "learn" you. I was merely asking how you think your numbers are more accurate than SirBruce's? He lists exactly how he gets his numbers. A LOT of insider folks give him information on a fairly regular basis. Hell, major gaming companies use him as a consultant. So your 'gut' is more accurate than his numbers? I didn't say my friend told me there were 120k players in UO... I said the information he tells me (as he does play regularly) gives him the feeling that there is no reason to doubt the numbers about UO.
The difference between you and I is that while I may or may not like the numbers I see for a certain game unless I have better information on a game then I will take SirBruce's numbers over some yoyo who is wagging a guess at how many people are playing a game based on his experiences on 1 server on a game during the limited time he is logged in with no factual data to back it up.
And, as I said, I didn't doubt you, I was just curious where you got your information from because I do like to get factual data. I used to write MUDS and even did some work on MMO's as well. I no longer do, because I detest programming to a schedule, I do network engineering now... much less stressful... But I still retain an interest in the industry and still have numerous friends working in the industry. So when someone comes out and says they know for a fact that a site that I rely on for data is wrong I am curious where they get their information because I like to have accurate data. So if they have a more reliable source of information I want to get access to it.
Obviously... from your rather heated reply... you don't have a more accurate source and were just talking out of your ass and got caught. I didn't even mean to 'catch you' at it. But there it is. I wasn't accusing you of anything. I merely asked an honest question. The tone and hatred in your reply tells me you don't know what you're talking about because, quite frankly, there was no need to rip my head off over a simple question.
It wasnt a simple question, it was a botched attempt to feel higher than me. Ive said 10 times in this thread so far I dont have any evidence other than what my own eyes have seen. Read my post above this. Ive said it over and over here that my statements were based of what I have seen in this game. Its my opinion its not a fact, and Ill repeat myself here AGAIN, I used the term loosely, I figured that was obvious.
Im sorry for acting like a jerk but im not gonna sit here and have internet jockys put words in my mouth or apply their own meanings to my words without at least attempting to defend myself. You have your opinion on this matter, everybody else has an opinion on this matter, and I have my opinion on this matter. Im not telling everybody else in this thread what they believe is bullshit, I said I think some of the numbers on that site are bullshit, because of what I have personally seen in those games. I know what I see isnt the be all end all of the numbers, but it gives ME a good perspective of how the game im playing is doing. Wait... What words did I put in your mouth? Please? Enlighten me? I'm not the one that went off the deep end calling people names. I'm not the one that said they knew for a fact that someone else's data was wrong. And then cited examples of how wrong he was by citing games that his data is, in fact, proven to be accurate for (Just a clue: COH/COV numbers, which you disputed, are posted on every NCSoft quarterly report. If you care to go look, I do, because I work with folks in the industry and my company is involved in network services for larger internet applications. So if we ever decided to branch our hosting out to support online games it's nice to know what to expect. NCSoft is actually one of the better reporters out there because they not only give subscriber numbers but also the number of unique logins over the period so you can actually get a good idea of what kind of load their network infrastructure has to support.
So, you see, as I said: I was merely interested to find out where you got your data because you said you knew for a "fact" that the data was wrong. And at the time that I replied to you you had NOT, in fact, stated that you were using the term 'loosely' or in any other matter. Just that you knew for a fact his numbers were wrong. So I asked where you were getting data so that I could go there and find out too.
The only person putting words in other peoples mouths is you. Personally I could care less if you're right or wrong. I just saw someone saying they knew for a fact that MMORPGCHART was innacurate so I was curious where you were getting more accurate data from. I'm not the one putting words into peoples mouths... you are.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sig image Pending Still in: A couple Betas
Way too much activity in this thread to see if someone else noticed the accuracy rating of the numbers posted (I would love a search feature on this forum) - so at the risk of reposting and being told so -
Star Wars Galaxies (Accuracy Rating: C)
C – This indicates that most or all of the data points provided are merely industry “best guesses” or are otherwise questionable. Usually, I will not chart MMOGs that rate C or lower. Their numbers should be taken with a large grain of salt.
Large grain, indeed.
But at any rate, the most affirming thing I take from the report is that the number continue to decline. This means more pressure for change...
Originally posted by kefkah Way too much activity in this thread to see if someone else noticed the accuracy rating of the numbers posted (I would love a search feature on this forum) - so at the risk of reposting and being told so -
Star Wars Galaxies (Accuracy Rating: C)
C – This indicates that most or all of the data points provided are merely industry “best guesses” or are otherwise questionable. Usually, I will not chart MMOGs that rate C or lower. Their numbers should be taken with a large grain of salt.
Large grain, indeed. But at any rate, the most affirming thing I take from the report is that the number continue to decline. This means more pressure for change...
More pressue for SOE / LA to shutdown, live with I told you so and the feelings of failure with something that should have been , like WoW -- sucessful.
Originally posted by Elnator Originally posted by Spathotan
Wait... What words did I put in your mouth? Please? Enlighten me? I'm not the one that went off the deep end calling people names. I'm not the one that said they knew for a fact that someone else's data was wrong. And then cited examples of how wrong he was by citing games that his data is, in fact, proven to be accurate for (Just a clue: COH/COV numbers, which you disputed, are posted on every NCSoft quarterly report. If you care to go look, I do, because I work with folks in the industry and my company is involved in network services for larger internet applications. So if we ever decided to branch our hosting out to support online games it's nice to know what to expect. NCSoft is actually one of the better reporters out there because they not only give subscriber numbers but also the number of unique logins over the period so you can actually get a good idea of what kind of load their network infrastructure has to support.
So, you see, as I said: I was merely interested to find out where you got your data because you said you knew for a "fact" that the data was wrong. And at the time that I replied to you you had NOT, in fact, stated that you were using the term 'loosely' or in any other matter. Just that you knew for a fact his numbers were wrong. So I asked where you were getting data so that I could go there and find out too.
The only person putting words in other peoples mouths is you. Personally I could care less if you're right or wrong. I just saw someone saying they knew for a fact that MMORPGCHART was innacurate so I was curious where you were getting more accurate data from. I'm not the one putting words into peoples mouths... you are.
Yea ok. I forgot you cant tell anything to the resident know-it-all. If you didnt care then why did you even bother to speak to me? Find somebody else to flatter you, im out.
"There's no star system Slave I can't reach, and there's no planet I can't find. There's nowhere in the Galaxy for you to run. Might as well give up now." Boba Fett
Originally posted by Spathotan Originally posted by Elnator
Originally posted by Spathotan
Wait... What words did I put in your mouth? Please? Enlighten me? I'm not the one that went off the deep end calling people names. I'm not the one that said they knew for a fact that someone else's data was wrong. And then cited examples of how wrong he was by citing games that his data is, in fact, proven to be accurate for (Just a clue: COH/COV numbers, which you disputed, are posted on every NCSoft quarterly report. If you care to go look, I do, because I work with folks in the industry and my company is involved in network services for larger internet applications. So if we ever decided to branch our hosting out to support online games it's nice to know what to expect. NCSoft is actually one of the better reporters out there because they not only give subscriber numbers but also the number of unique logins over the period so you can actually get a good idea of what kind of load their network infrastructure has to support.
So, you see, as I said: I was merely interested to find out where you got your data because you said you knew for a "fact" that the data was wrong. And at the time that I replied to you you had NOT, in fact, stated that you were using the term 'loosely' or in any other matter. Just that you knew for a fact his numbers were wrong. So I asked where you were getting data so that I could go there and find out too.
The only person putting words in other peoples mouths is you. Personally I could care less if you're right or wrong. I just saw someone saying they knew for a fact that MMORPGCHART was innacurate so I was curious where you were getting more accurate data from. I'm not the one putting words into peoples mouths... you are.
Yea ok. I forgot you cant tell anything to the resident know-it-all. If you didnt care then why did you even bother to speak to me? Find somebody else to flatter you, im out.
I'll say it slow so you'll understand: I Asked Because You Said You Knew For A Fact That His Numbers Were Wrong
Thus you IMPLIED that you had a more reliable source of information. I asked what it was. You went off the deep end on me, ASSUMING that I was somehow out to get you. I was not. I merely wanted to know where you were getting your data. You can ask anyone here and they will tell you that I love getting hard data on things. Anytime people start saying 'it's full/it's empty... blah blah' I'm usually one of the first to say "get me some data to back up the statements". Why? Because I like facts.. I don't go on 'fuzzy math'. And I don't like going on 'hunches'. I like to get as factual information as I can. It's part of my job.
Don't like it? Too bad. I wasn't trying to criticize you I was honestly interested in finding out any factual information I could. Sorry if I caught you at a bad time of the month or something but... please... get over yourself. You said you had facts and I asked where you got them. I'm sorry for asking.
If basing my opinions on factual data is being a 'know it all' then I'd sure rather be a know-it-all than a 'assume-it-all'.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sig image Pending Still in: A couple Betas
You know, they could boost these numbers in a flash if they introduced a version of the upcoming Everquest "combine" server. Just put a classic server out there the same way, with all of the expatriates who have never found anything comparable and the large number of new-to-MMOs people WOW has brought to the table, wowie! The numbers they wish they had voila!
Yes that is important. But his guesstimates are pretty decent as well -- he doesn't just pull numbers out of the air. They're actually quite educated.
Personally I'd put SWG somewhere between 135k-150k. Post CU3, it might be as high as 160k. I know many community vets will sharply disbelieve that, but the majority of those accounts are from people that barely play and don't have any active "function" in the community, so players who post and whatnot wouldn't have any viable reason to even notice these people.
RE: the game getting bad initial reviews, (or, the NGE is just a band aid for a bigger problem.)
I tend to agree that the game wasn't what it should've been when it came out. Although, the major gripe with the game on release was it's dearth of content, not necessarily any tedium involved with the content (but strangely enough, the content that was in game was crappy).
It goes without saying that User Experience is perhaps SOE's worst quality. They really don't know how to (1) make content and (2) make fun content. Largely, I think this is because of flawed vision rooting back with EverQuest. I mean, EverQuest II's gameplay was supposed to be cooperative only -- and this is a game that came out in 2004, mind you, years after the PvE grind was perfected! Thing is, unless the actual gameplay (AI, in this case) changes dramatically, it's literally the same old shit repackaged and redistributed.
SWG failed to capture the GCW in all it's glory. It says a lot, and nothing good, that the players themselves can sit down and discuss a multitude of implementable ideas (to varying degrees) that are fun, interesting, unique, and true to Star Wars, where, in contrast, the developers working on the game can only attmept to emulate the successful strategies of other companies. This shows, and that's why SWG is doing well below where it should be.
-- xpaladin
[MMOz] AC1/2, AO, DAoC, EQ1/2, SoR, SWG, UO, WAR, WoW
Reality check time Obraik. My reply to the thread on the General forum. You'll notice that I rounded all the numbers up in SOEs favour and it still looks ugly:
SWGs population isn't that high. If you go into his analysis portion you'll see he rates the reliability of the SWG numbers as C or, virtually nil.
EQ and EQ2 numbers were rated A and B respectively so lets take them as being closer to reality and have a combined population of ~725 000. SOE execs have stated publicly on more than one occaision in recent months that they have almost 800 000 subscribers. Considering they were bragging about that number it's more likely to be exaggerated than low-balled.
Even if accurate that leaves at most 75 000 for ALL other SOE games combined. Given the number of other games and people playing them it's then a safe bet that less than 1/2 of that number are in SWG.
1/2 being 37 500 and arrived at by being very generous in SOEs favour with the numbers brings us strikingly close to the 25 000 that the SWG players and refugees have been estimating once the pre-paid accounts expired.
From Smed's own fingers.... "SWG never attracted the size audience that the Star Wars license delivered in the first place". The driving force behind all this was the fact that SWG doesn't attract the kind of numbers something with Star Wars on it's name should... Hell! There's probably more people who like the Star Wars Christmas Special than SWG. And no matter how hard it's spun, the attempt at revitalizing SWG failed!
Now, on this one, he says: "Did we make a mistake? Maybe.. but only time is going to tell on that one." It's pretty obvious by now that they have, so now the question is, when is SOE/LA goind to realize that they HAVE made a mistake and what are they going to do about it.
SOE knows what you like... You don't! And don't forget... I am forcing you to read this!
Originally posted by duncan_922 Now, on this one, he says: "Did we make a mistake? Maybe.. but only time is going to tell on that one." It's pretty obvious by now that they have, so now the question is, when is SOE/LA goind to realize that they HAVE made a mistake and what are they going to do about it.
Here's what they aren't going to do about it: rollback.
The idea behind the NGE wasn't a mistake. The implementation was. If Battlefront had come out as a MMORPG, I promise you that it would be doing WoW numbers. SWG wasn't designed to be like Battlefront, so it is taking a lot of adjustment to get it to work with all that legacy stuff they don't dare throw out (like Entertainers). It isn't yet to the point where it is detailed enough to decide whether it was a mistake or not. Just because some kid played it for the first month and didn't like it doesn't mean the NGE was a mistake and it doesn't mean that a rollback is going to have everybody rushing back to play the game like nothing ever happened.
What they are going to do is continually improve the NGE until it gets to a level where most people can tolerate it. Judging by the increased activity in the game recently, I'd say they are pretty close. This new patch should make a difference for a lot of people, and the expertise trees even more so. Smuggling, which has never been in the game in any way shape or form, should be coming after that, and a lot of people have wanted that since beta.
The game's not getting worse. It's getting better, and the population is growing because of it. What remains to be seen is whether or not that population can grow larger than preCU at its lowest point (it would be very difficult for SWG to reach launch numbers without something greater than the NGE to push it, but the NGE is the first step in that). I think the simple fact that SWG is currently growing puts it ahead of the preCU, which most certainly wasn't.
Originally posted by Squidi Originally posted by duncan_922 Now, on this one, he says: "Did we make a mistake? Maybe.. but only time is going to tell on that one." It's pretty obvious by now that they have, so now the question is, when is SOE/LA goind to realize that they HAVE made a mistake and what are they going to do about it.
Here's what they aren't going to do about it: rollback.
Your right for a change Squidi. It is time to shut the game down. It is an unrecoverable failure.
The idea behind the NGE wasn't a mistake. The implementation was. If
Sure it was a mistake. 200000 (80% of the actuve subs) says it was a mistake.
Battlefront had come out as a MMORPG, I promise you that it would be doing WoW numbers. SWG wasn't designed to be like Battlefront, so it is taking a
Exactly the point: SWG was designed to an RPG. Then it was forced to be an FPS. While it does neither well, most wanted the RPG.
lot of adjustment to get it to work with all that legacy stuff they don't dare throw out (like Entertainers). It isn't yet to the point where it is detailed enough to decide whether it was a mistake or not. Just because some kid played it for the first month and didn't like it doesn't mean the NGE was a mistake and it doesn't mean that a rollback is going to have everybody rushing back to play the game like nothing ever happened.
What they are going to do is continually improve the NGE until it gets to a level where most people can tolerate it. Judging by the increased activity in
Well, at least you admit people cannot tolerate the NGE. But the fact of the matter is, the game isn't going to see significant development.
the game recently, I'd say they are pretty close. This new patch should make a difference for a lot of people, and the expertise trees even more so. Smuggling, which has never been in the game in any way shape or form, should be coming after that, and a lot of people have wanted that since beta.
The game's not getting worse. It's getting better, and the population is growing because of it. What remains to be seen is whether or not that
Many of disagree that it is getting better. In fact, it continues to go in the wrong direction not to mention the fact that they still have engineering problems. The later, I will conced, as effect all releases of SWG not just the NGE.
population can grow larger than preCU at its lowest point (it would be very difficult for SWG to reach launch numbers without something greater than the NGE to push it, but the NGE is the first step in that). I think the simple fact that SWG is currently growing puts it ahead of the preCU, which most certainly wasn't.
Again, the is a fantasy on your part. The game will not grow. The fact they are trying to make it an FPS geared toward PvP indicates they know the game is on its last breath. They are just trying to get the extra $$. But, even then, you will never see the game grow to pre-CU levels let alone anything approaching WoW. SOE/LA missed the boat and that boat is never coming back.
Squidi I would also give you the following advice before making posts liek the above by asking yourself several questions:
Who is my target audience? Who am I trying to convience? Do I have the tools necessary to convience them? Do I have the ability necessary to convience them? Is it worth the effort or energy to convience them? What do I hope to gain?
I suspect if you answer those questions of your post before you post, you might find your posts are of higher quality and more flame proof.
dont want to get into talks which system is better or worse (altho i loved pre-cu), but as some peps are refering NGE is getting better, but why? cause of what? well for me the funny part is that its getting better cause a lot of new implementations from older systems, tbh i couldnt get rid of the "pre-nge" feeling on TC when talking strictly about combat, we are 6 months since the release of nge and game is still being inhanced by things which were taken away in the first place, nge is getting better but it needs at least another 3-5 months till it will be able to compete with pre-CU/nge era when we are talking about depth in game, yup i am still playing cause i still manage to find something fun for me and cause of lack some off-road mmorpgs, but would skip to classic pre-cu server in a second!! (rollback would be really terrible idea at this time)
Originally posted by teleprior dont want to get into talks which system is better or worse (altho i loved pre-cu), but as some peps are refering NGE is getting better, but why? cause of what? well for me the funny part is that its getting better cause a lot of new implementations from older systems, tbh i couldnt get rid of the "pre-nge" feeling on TC when talking strictly about combat, we are 6 months since the release of nge and game is still being inhanced by things which were taken away in the first place, nge is getting better but it needs at least another 3-5 months till it will be able to compete with pre-CU/nge era when we are talking about depth in game, yup i am still playing cause i still manage to find something fun for me and cause of lack some off-road mmorpgs, but would skip to classic pre-cu server in a second!! (rollback would be really terrible idea at this time)
From a market point of view, the game missed its opprotunity serveral years ago. Given the direction it was given in the last year, it will never recover. The engineering (rollback or not) no longer matters.
Originally posted by Squidi What they are going to do is continually improve the NGE until it gets to a level where most people can tolerate it. Judging by the increased activity in the game recently, I'd say they are pretty close. This new patch should make a difference for a lot of people, and the expertise trees even more so. Smuggling, which has never been in the game in any way shape or form, should be coming after that, and a lot of people have wanted that since beta.
Various devs have said this kind of crap several times, over several years, before you have now. Yes, even about Smuggling.
And before you get yer panties truly in a bind here, keep in mind, this is about SOE's credibility as well. Of which, they've managed to do a well job pavewaying it in quite a glorious fashion.
The bottom line here is that they lost a substantial amount of subs when the NGE went live. Furthermore, and perhaps quite related, they took a huge credibility hit with the ToOW fiasco (which is only further magnified by SOE's already egregious reputation). Consider the fact that they're still trying to make, as you say, the NGE playable -- never mind the content -- and you've got to wonder what has amounted of all the progress of previous years. I think it's really silly to assume that the era of NGE is going to be any different, especially as technology continues to evolve.
That said, I'm certain they consider the NGE rollout a mistake on subscription loss alone. They're completely unwilling to admit it, likely because they're totally committed to the system whether they want to be or not. Knowing how "enterprise solutions" (perhaps the most evil think tank in IT) work for large companies, I would not at all be surprised if this was the case.
-- xpaladin
[MMOz] AC1/2, AO, DAoC, EQ1/2, SoR, SWG, UO, WAR, WoW
Originally posted by xPaladin Originally posted by Squidi
The bottom line here is that they lost a substantial amount of subs when the NGE went live. Furthermore, and perhaps quite related, they took a huge credibility hit with the ToOW fiasco (which is only further magnified by SOE's already egregious reputation). Consider the fact that they're still trying to make, as you say, the NGE playable -- never mind the content -- and you've got to wonder what has amounted of all the progress of previous years. I think it's really silly to assume that the era of NGE is going to be any different, especially as technology continues to evolve.
That said, I'm certain they consider the NGE rollout a mistake on subscription loss alone. They're completely unwilling to admit it, likely because they're totally committed to the system whether they want to be or not. Knowing how "enterprise solutions" (perhaps the most evil think tank in IT) work for large companies, I would not at all be surprised if this was the case.
xPaladin you speak the truth! Will you take over SOE and make it better!
Originally posted by xPaladin Originally posted by Squidi What they are going to do is continually improve the NGE until it gets to a level where most people can tolerate it. Judging by the increased activity in the game recently, I'd say they are pretty close. This new patch should make a difference for a lot of people, and the expertise trees even more so. Smuggling, which has never been in the game in any way shape or form, should be coming after that, and a lot of people have wanted that since beta.
Various devs have said this kind of crap several times, over several years, before you have now. Yes, even about Smuggling.
And before you get yer panties truly in a bind here, keep in mind, this is about SOE's credibility as well. Of which, they've managed to do a well job pavewaying it in quite a glorious fashion.
The bottom line here is that they lost a substantial amount of subs when the NGE went live. Furthermore, and perhaps quite related, they took a huge credibility hit with the ToOW fiasco (which is only further magnified by SOE's already egregious reputation). Consider the fact that they're still trying to make, as you say, the NGE playable -- never mind the content -- and you've got to wonder what has amounted of all the progress of previous years. I think it's really silly to assume that the era of NGE is going to be any different, especially as technology continues to evolve.
That said, I'm certain they consider the NGE rollout a mistake on subscription loss alone. They're completely unwilling to admit it, likely because they're totally committed to the system whether they want to be or not. Knowing how "enterprise solutions" (perhaps the most evil think tank in IT) work for large companies, I would not at all be surprised if this was the case.
Preach on brother. SOE could never admit that they were wrong - again - with SWG. By virtue of the fact that I have to read publish 29-32 plans in hopes that there will continue to be a reason to play this game, SOE was disasterously wrong - again.
If any aspect of this game, other than the Star Wars name, worked, SOE wouldn't be continuously dicking around with changes and begging people to "give them time to fix the bugs". Hell, the Star Wars name is the only thing that hasn't changed.
So what's the enterprise solution? Find someone else to blame, "an oversaturated market", "an age gap in the player base" that makes it impossible to please both the old and new players (likely older and younger btw), or simply the fading of the franchise. Or perhaps even some combination thereof will work. SWG will be axed and soon.
I'm actually waiting for the day when I get the e-mail telling me they're done collecting my $15 per month as the servers are closing down. I'm going to print it and frame it. All I wanted to do was build a camp and be a CH . . .
Originally posted by admriker444 SOE is counting all-access passes obviously. And most of those are EQ2 players wanting extra character slots and have never created a SWG account.
As someone who has had a station pass, I can tell you that your pass doesn't make you a subscriber to all games UNLESS you add a CD key for that game. I had SWG, EQ2, and MxO on my account and that's what I had access to play because I put the keys in, I had zero access to Planetside and EQ (not even the forums) because I didn't put a key in for those games.
Therefore, if there are 60K pass subs (just a random number) that doesn't increase the subscriber base of ALL station pass games by 60K.
Until you cancel your subscription, you are only helping to continue the cycle of mediocrity.
Originally posted by TookyG Originally posted by admriker444 SOE is counting all-access passes obviously. And most of those are EQ2 players wanting extra character slots and have never created a SWG account.
As someone who has had a station pass, I can tell you that your pass doesn't make you a subscriber to all games UNLESS you add a CD key for that game. I had SWG, EQ2, and MxO on my account and that's what I had access to play because I put the keys in, I had zero access to Planetside and EQ (not even the forums) because I didn't put a key in for those games.
Therefore, if there are 60K pass subs (just a random number) that doesn't increase the subscriber base of ALL station pass games by 60K.
Well, it doesn't change the fact that SOE could change its account practices on this matter. It isn't like SOE is above this kind of thing.
Besides, the mmorpgchart.org gave SOE a "C" on reliablity which means the real numbers are unflatering to SOE. As someone else pointed out, they bragged about EQ having some 700K subscribers.
Originally posted by Clackamas Your right for a change Squidi. It is time to shut the game down. It is an unrecoverable failure.
If the game has 190k subscribers, or even just 50k, those people would be upset if the game got shutdown. So your petty vegengence is more important than the happiness of 190,000 people? I think they have a name for people who believe their shallow desires are more important than other people. I think it begins with an a.
Sure it was a mistake. 200000 (80% of the actuve subs) says it was a mistake.
Terrible spelling aside, perhaps you'd have a better chance at convincing people to take you seriously if you didn't just make up shit whenever you feel like it.
Exactly the point: SWG was designed to an RPG. Then it was forced to be an FPS. While it does neither well, most wanted the RPG.
That's wrong. Most wanted the FPS. Just because the RPG people were there first doesn't mean they represent a majority.
Well, at least you admit people cannot tolerate the NGE. But the fact of the matter is, the game isn't going to see significant development.
The game is seeing significant development right now. I'm not sure what you think "significant" means, but to me, it means development which improves the game in fundamental ways and since the stuff on Test seem to be the answer to a lot of player's prayers, seems significant to me.
Many of disagree that it is getting better.
Who? Everybody I know has said that the game is in better shape than it was a few months ago. You may still disagree with the NGE's changes, but the game IS quantifiably better. Unless you are using the word "better" to stand in for "preCU", in which case, grow up and get over it.
Again, the is a fantasy on your part. The game will not grow.
The game IS growing you retard. There's been a dozen posts in this forum by people commenting on how many more players there are now than a few months ago. Now is greater than then. Sounds like growth to me. Can you even read?
The fact they are trying to make it an FPS geared toward PvP indicates they know the game is on its last breath.
It is nothing like a FPS, and it is by no means PvP-only. In fact, they seem rather insistant on making PvP COMPLETELY optional.
Squidi I would also give you the following advice before making posts liek the above by asking yourself several questions:
Who is my target audience? Who am I trying to convience? Do I have the tools necessary to convience them? Do I have the ability necessary to convience them? Is it worth the effort or energy to convience them? What do I hope to gain?
I suspect if you answer those questions of your post before you post, you might find your posts are of higher quality and more flame proof.
Considering your amazing spelling ability and the fact that you don't listen, don't respond to what is said, and just make up shit, I'd really think twice before flaming someone else on the quality of their posts. Unless you think that this forum is filled with illiterate 12 year olds and are just trying to play to the crowd, of course. In which case, man, you are good at it!
Squidi, I dont care what you and your retard friends claim to see. The game is NOT growing. Get that through your fanboi brain. Smedley, you know him...the guy who's President of SOE...that guy stated the game is still LOSING players.
Its beyond me to comprehend the ignorance of fanbois like Squidi who think their personal observations are evidence of growth. Do you see the accounts that are cancelled ? Do you see the accounts that were running on prepaid cards that continue to expire without renewels ?
Until Smedley comes out and states the game is growing we can all assume its not. And you dam well better believe if that ever did happen (growth), Smedley would have the SOE PR machine screaming about it to everyone.
Accept the fact that the game you have chosen to play is a failure. And accept the fact that you arent smart enough to quit when a company spits in your face, steals your money to develop another game in secret, and repeatedly lies to you.
Originally posted by Squidi Originally posted by Clackamas
Considering your amazing spelling ability and the fact that you don't listen, don't respond to what is said, and just make up shit, I'd really think twice before flaming someone else on the quality of their posts. Unless you think that this forum is filled with illiterate 12 year olds and are just trying to play to the crowd, of course. In which case, man, you are good at it!
Is spelling all you have to attack? LOL. And I thought I had responding to all your points -- so how exactly am I not listening? Clearly, you took the context of my replies out of context so it is hard for anyone to follow what is being said.
Anyway, I am not clear who you are trying to sway with your pro-SWG arguments? Certainly not me. And certainly not the majority of people here.
Originally posted by Clackamas Originally posted by xPaladin Originally posted by Squidi
The bottom line here is that they lost a substantial amount of subs when the NGE went live. Furthermore, and perhaps quite related, they took a huge credibility hit with the ToOW fiasco (which is only further magnified by SOE's already egregious reputation). Consider the fact that they're still trying to make, as you say, the NGE playable -- never mind the content -- and you've got to wonder what has amounted of all the progress of previous years. I think it's really silly to assume that the era of NGE is going to be any different, especially as technology continues to evolve.
That said, I'm certain they consider the NGE rollout a mistake on subscription loss alone. They're completely unwilling to admit it, likely because they're totally committed to the system whether they want to be or not. Knowing how "enterprise solutions" (perhaps the most evil think tank in IT) work for large companies, I would not at all be surprised if this was the case.
xPaladin you speak the truth! Will you take over SOE and make it better! give SOE over to a monkey with a half a brain and he could make it better.
Playing: EVE Online Favorite MMOs: WoW, SWG Pre-cu, Lineage 2, UO, EQ, EVE online Looking forward to: Archeage, Kingdom Under Fire 2 KUF2's Official Website - http://www.kufii.com/ENG/ -
Originally posted by Squidi Originally posted by Clackamas Your right for a change Squidi. It is time to shut the game down. It is an unrecoverable failure.
If the game has 190k subscribers, or even just 50k, those people would be upset if the game got shutdown. So your petty vegengence is more important than the happiness of 190,000 people? I think they have a name for people who believe their shallow desires are more important than other people. I think it begins with an a.
Sure it was a mistake. 200000 (80% of the actuve subs) says it was a mistake.
Terrible spelling aside, perhaps you'd have a better chance at convincing people to take you seriously if you didn't just make up shit whenever you feel like it.
Exactly the point: SWG was designed to an RPG. Then it was forced to be an FPS. While it does neither well, most wanted the RPG.
That's wrong. Most wanted the FPS. Just because the RPG people were there first doesn't mean they represent a majority.
Well, at least you admit people cannot tolerate the NGE. But the fact of the matter is, the game isn't going to see significant development.
The game is seeing significant development right now. I'm not sure what you think "significant" means, but to me, it means development which improves the game in fundamental ways and since the stuff on Test seem to be the answer to a lot of player's prayers, seems significant to me.
Many of disagree that it is getting better.
Who? Everybody I know has said that the game is in better shape than it was a few months ago. You may still disagree with the NGE's changes, but the game IS quantifiably better. Unless you are using the word "better" to stand in for "preCU", in which case, grow up and get over it.
Again, the is a fantasy on your part. The game will not grow.
The game IS growing you retard. There's been a dozen posts in this forum by people commenting on how many more players there are now than a few months ago. Now is greater than then. Sounds like growth to me. Can you even read?
The fact they are trying to make it an FPS geared toward PvP indicates they know the game is on its last breath.
It is nothing like a FPS, and it is by no means PvP-only. In fact, they seem rather insistant on making PvP COMPLETELY optional.
Squidi I would also give you the following advice before making posts liek the above by asking yourself several questions:
Who is my target audience? Who am I trying to convience? Do I have the tools necessary to convience them? Do I have the ability necessary to convience them? Is it worth the effort or energy to convience them? What do I hope to gain?
I suspect if you answer those questions of your post before you post, you might find your posts are of higher quality and more flame proof.
Considering your amazing spelling ability and the fact that you don't listen, don't respond to what is said, and just make up shit, I'd really think twice before flaming someone else on the quality of their posts. Unless you think that this forum is filled with illiterate 12 year olds and are just trying to play to the crowd, of course. In which case, man, you are good at it!
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I figured it was just a matter of time before the resident know-it-all showed up. Anyways ill enlighten you.
Im baseing it on having played all 3 of those games within the last year for at least 3 months. I played CoV for 3 months, FFXI for about 5 and EQ2 for around 7. You are right, its not fact, but I can assure even you that what I said is legit from what I saw in those games. I have no reason to lie, I dont currently play any of those 3 anymore.
Ive read all the post after the one ive quoted here, and I saw the stuff X person said about CoH/V and I ackwoledge that, thanks for the info. Ive also seen you tell one person you KNOW UO has at least those said numbers because you have a friend who plays. You dont even play the game yourself, so you are going by what he/she tells you, yet you attempt to "learn me" by challenging my statement? At this point im realizing your post was merely flamebait, but im not gonna delete all this.
I wasn't attempting to "learn" you. I was merely asking how you think your numbers are more accurate than SirBruce's? He lists exactly how he gets his numbers. A LOT of insider folks give him information on a fairly regular basis. Hell, major gaming companies use him as a consultant. So your 'gut' is more accurate than his numbers? I didn't say my friend told me there were 120k players in UO... I said the information he tells me (as he does play regularly) gives him the feeling that there is no reason to doubt the numbers about UO.
The difference between you and I is that while I may or may not like the numbers I see for a certain game unless I have better information on a game then I will take SirBruce's numbers over some yoyo who is wagging a guess at how many people are playing a game based on his experiences on 1 server on a game during the limited time he is logged in with no factual data to back it up.
And, as I said, I didn't doubt you, I was just curious where you got your information from because I do like to get factual data. I used to write MUDS and even did some work on MMO's as well. I no longer do, because I detest programming to a schedule, I do network engineering now... much less stressful... But I still retain an interest in the industry and still have numerous friends working in the industry. So when someone comes out and says they know for a fact that a site that I rely on for data is wrong I am curious where they get their information because I like to have accurate data. So if they have a more reliable source of information I want to get access to it.
Obviously... from your rather heated reply... you don't have a more accurate source and were just talking out of your ass and got caught. I didn't even mean to 'catch you' at it. But there it is. I wasn't accusing you of anything. I merely asked an honest question. The tone and hatred in your reply tells me you don't know what you're talking about because, quite frankly, there was no need to rip my head off over a simple question.
It wasnt a simple question, it was a botched attempt to feel higher than me. Ive said 10 times in this thread so far I dont have any evidence other than what my own eyes have seen. Read my post above this. Ive said it over and over here that my statements were based of what I have seen in this game. Its my opinion its not a fact, and Ill repeat myself here AGAIN, I used the term loosely, I figured that was obvious.
Im sorry for acting like a jerk but im not gonna sit here and have internet jockys put words in my mouth or apply their own meanings to my words without at least attempting to defend myself. You have your opinion on this matter, everybody else has an opinion on this matter, and I have my opinion on this matter. Im not telling everybody else in this thread what they believe is bullshit, I said I think some of the numbers on that site are bullshit, because of what I have personally seen in those games. I know what I see isnt the be all end all of the numbers, but it gives ME a good perspective of how the game im playing is doing.
Wait...
What words did I put in your mouth? Please? Enlighten me?
I'm not the one that went off the deep end calling people names.
I'm not the one that said they knew for a fact that someone else's data was wrong. And then cited examples of how wrong he was by citing games that his data is, in fact, proven to be accurate for (Just a clue: COH/COV numbers, which you disputed, are posted on every NCSoft quarterly report. If you care to go look, I do, because I work with folks in the industry and my company is involved in network services for larger internet applications. So if we ever decided to branch our hosting out to support online games it's nice to know what to expect. NCSoft is actually one of the better reporters out there because they not only give subscriber numbers but also the number of unique logins over the period so you can actually get a good idea of what kind of load their network infrastructure has to support.
So, you see, as I said: I was merely interested to find out where you got your data because you said you knew for a "fact" that the data was wrong. And at the time that I replied to you you had NOT, in fact, stated that you were using the term 'loosely' or in any other matter. Just that you knew for a fact his numbers were wrong. So I asked where you were getting data so that I could go there and find out too.
The only person putting words in other peoples mouths is you. Personally I could care less if you're right or wrong. I just saw someone saying they knew for a fact that MMORPGCHART was innacurate so I was curious where you were getting more accurate data from. I'm not the one putting words into peoples mouths... you are.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
Star Wars Galaxies (Accuracy Rating: C)
C – This indicates that most or all of the data points provided are merely industry “best guesses” or are otherwise questionable. Usually, I will not chart MMOGs that rate C or lower. Their numbers should be taken with a large grain of salt.
Large grain, indeed.
But at any rate, the most affirming thing I take from the report is that the number continue to decline. This means more pressure for change...
Wait...
What words did I put in your mouth? Please? Enlighten me?
I'm not the one that went off the deep end calling people names.
I'm not the one that said they knew for a fact that someone else's data was wrong. And then cited examples of how wrong he was by citing games that his data is, in fact, proven to be accurate for (Just a clue: COH/COV numbers, which you disputed, are posted on every NCSoft quarterly report. If you care to go look, I do, because I work with folks in the industry and my company is involved in network services for larger internet applications. So if we ever decided to branch our hosting out to support online games it's nice to know what to expect. NCSoft is actually one of the better reporters out there because they not only give subscriber numbers but also the number of unique logins over the period so you can actually get a good idea of what kind of load their network infrastructure has to support.
So, you see, as I said: I was merely interested to find out where you got your data because you said you knew for a "fact" that the data was wrong. And at the time that I replied to you you had NOT, in fact, stated that you were using the term 'loosely' or in any other matter. Just that you knew for a fact his numbers were wrong. So I asked where you were getting data so that I could go there and find out too.
The only person putting words in other peoples mouths is you. Personally I could care less if you're right or wrong. I just saw someone saying they knew for a fact that MMORPGCHART was innacurate so I was curious where you were getting more accurate data from. I'm not the one putting words into peoples mouths... you are.
Yea ok. I forgot you cant tell anything to the resident know-it-all. If you didnt care then why did you even bother to speak to me? Find somebody else to flatter you, im out.
"There's no star system Slave I can't reach, and there's no planet I can't find. There's nowhere in the Galaxy for you to run. Might as well give up now."
Boba Fett
Wait...
What words did I put in your mouth? Please? Enlighten me?
I'm not the one that went off the deep end calling people names.
I'm not the one that said they knew for a fact that someone else's data was wrong. And then cited examples of how wrong he was by citing games that his data is, in fact, proven to be accurate for (Just a clue: COH/COV numbers, which you disputed, are posted on every NCSoft quarterly report. If you care to go look, I do, because I work with folks in the industry and my company is involved in network services for larger internet applications. So if we ever decided to branch our hosting out to support online games it's nice to know what to expect. NCSoft is actually one of the better reporters out there because they not only give subscriber numbers but also the number of unique logins over the period so you can actually get a good idea of what kind of load their network infrastructure has to support.
So, you see, as I said: I was merely interested to find out where you got your data because you said you knew for a "fact" that the data was wrong. And at the time that I replied to you you had NOT, in fact, stated that you were using the term 'loosely' or in any other matter. Just that you knew for a fact his numbers were wrong. So I asked where you were getting data so that I could go there and find out too.
The only person putting words in other peoples mouths is you. Personally I could care less if you're right or wrong. I just saw someone saying they knew for a fact that MMORPGCHART was innacurate so I was curious where you were getting more accurate data from. I'm not the one putting words into peoples mouths... you are.
Yea ok. I forgot you cant tell anything to the resident know-it-all. If you didnt care then why did you even bother to speak to me? Find somebody else to flatter you, im out.
I'll say it slow so you'll understand:
I
Asked
Because
You
Said
You
Knew
For
A
Fact
That
His
Numbers
Were
Wrong
Thus you IMPLIED that you had a more reliable source of information. I asked what it was. You went off the deep end on me, ASSUMING that I was somehow out to get you. I was not. I merely wanted to know where you were getting your data. You can ask anyone here and they will tell you that I love getting hard data on things. Anytime people start saying 'it's full/it's empty... blah blah' I'm usually one of the first to say "get me some data to back up the statements". Why? Because I like facts.. I don't go on 'fuzzy math'. And I don't like going on 'hunches'. I like to get as factual information as I can. It's part of my job.
Don't like it? Too bad. I wasn't trying to criticize you I was honestly interested in finding out any factual information I could. Sorry if I caught you at a bad time of the month or something but... please... get over yourself. You said you had facts and I asked where you got them. I'm sorry for asking.
If basing my opinions on factual data is being a 'know it all' then I'd sure rather be a know-it-all than a 'assume-it-all'.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
You know, they could boost these numbers in a flash if they introduced a version of the upcoming Everquest "combine" server. Just put a classic server out there the same way, with all of the expatriates who have never found anything comparable and the large number of new-to-MMOs people WOW has brought to the table, wowie! The numbers they wish they had voila!
Yes that is important. But his guesstimates are pretty decent as well -- he doesn't just pull numbers out of the air. They're actually quite educated.
Personally I'd put SWG somewhere between 135k-150k. Post CU3, it might be as high as 160k. I know many community vets will sharply disbelieve that, but the majority of those accounts are from people that barely play and don't have any active "function" in the community, so players who post and whatnot wouldn't have any viable reason to even notice these people.
RE: the game getting bad initial reviews,
(or, the NGE is just a band aid for a bigger problem.)
I tend to agree that the game wasn't what it should've been when it came out. Although, the major gripe with the game on release was it's dearth of content, not necessarily any tedium involved with the content (but strangely enough, the content that was in game was crappy).
It goes without saying that User Experience is perhaps SOE's worst quality. They really don't know how to (1) make content and (2) make fun content. Largely, I think this is because of flawed vision rooting back with EverQuest. I mean, EverQuest II's gameplay was supposed to be cooperative only -- and this is a game that came out in 2004, mind you, years after the PvE grind was perfected! Thing is, unless the actual gameplay (AI, in this case) changes dramatically, it's literally the same old shit repackaged and redistributed.
SWG failed to capture the GCW in all it's glory. It says a lot, and nothing good, that the players themselves can sit down and discuss a multitude of implementable ideas (to varying degrees) that are fun, interesting, unique, and true to Star Wars, where, in contrast, the developers working on the game can only attmept to emulate the successful strategies of other companies. This shows, and that's why SWG is doing well below where it should be.
-- xpaladin
[MMOz]
AC1/2, AO, DAoC, EQ1/2, SoR, SWG, UO, WAR, WoW
SWGs population isn't that high. If you go into his analysis portion you'll see he rates the reliability of the SWG numbers as C or, virtually nil.
EQ and EQ2 numbers were rated A and B respectively so lets take them as being closer to reality and have a combined population of ~725 000. SOE execs have stated publicly on more than one occaision in recent months that they have almost 800 000 subscribers. Considering they were bragging about that number it's more likely to be exaggerated than low-balled.
Even if accurate that leaves at most 75 000 for ALL other SOE games combined. Given the number of other games and people playing them it's then a safe bet that less than 1/2 of that number are in SWG.
1/2 being 37 500 and arrived at by being very generous in SOEs favour with the numbers brings us strikingly close to the 25 000 that the SWG players and refugees have been estimating once the pre-paid accounts expired.
*EDIT* Bah, stupid non-standard HTML forums
From Smed's own fingers.... "SWG never attracted the size audience that the Star Wars license delivered in the first place". The driving force behind all this was the fact that SWG doesn't attract the kind of numbers something with Star Wars on it's name should... Hell! There's probably more people who like the Star Wars Christmas Special than SWG. And no matter how hard it's spun, the attempt at revitalizing SWG failed!
Now, on this one, he says: "Did we make a mistake? Maybe.. but only time is going to tell on that one." It's pretty obvious by now that they have, so now the question is, when is SOE/LA goind to realize that they HAVE made a mistake and what are they going to do about it.
SOE knows what you like... You don't!
And don't forget... I am forcing you to read this!
The idea behind the NGE wasn't a mistake. The implementation was. If Battlefront had come out as a MMORPG, I promise you that it would be doing WoW numbers. SWG wasn't designed to be like Battlefront, so it is taking a lot of adjustment to get it to work with all that legacy stuff they don't dare throw out (like Entertainers). It isn't yet to the point where it is detailed enough to decide whether it was a mistake or not. Just because some kid played it for the first month and didn't like it doesn't mean the NGE was a mistake and it doesn't mean that a rollback is going to have everybody rushing back to play the game like nothing ever happened.
What they are going to do is continually improve the NGE until it gets to a level where most people can tolerate it. Judging by the increased activity in the game recently, I'd say they are pretty close. This new patch should make a difference for a lot of people, and the expertise trees even more so. Smuggling, which has never been in the game in any way shape or form, should be coming after that, and a lot of people have wanted that since beta.
The game's not getting worse. It's getting better, and the population is growing because of it. What remains to be seen is whether or not that population can grow larger than preCU at its lowest point (it would be very difficult for SWG to reach launch numbers without something greater than the NGE to push it, but the NGE is the first step in that). I think the simple fact that SWG is currently growing puts it ahead of the preCU, which most certainly wasn't.
Your right for a change Squidi. It is time to shut the game down. It is an unrecoverable failure.
The idea behind the NGE wasn't a mistake. The implementation was. If
Sure it was a mistake. 200000 (80% of the actuve subs) says it was a mistake.
Battlefront had come out as a MMORPG, I promise you that it would be doing WoW numbers. SWG wasn't designed to be like Battlefront, so it is taking a
Exactly the point: SWG was designed to an RPG. Then it was forced to be an FPS. While it does neither well, most wanted the RPG.
lot of adjustment to get it to work with all that legacy stuff they don't dare throw out (like Entertainers). It isn't yet to the point where it is detailed enough to decide whether it was a mistake or not. Just because some kid played it for the first month and didn't like it doesn't mean the NGE was a mistake and it doesn't mean that a rollback is going to have everybody rushing back to play the game like nothing ever happened.
What they are going to do is continually improve the NGE until it gets to a level where most people can tolerate it. Judging by the increased activity in
Well, at least you admit people cannot tolerate the NGE. But the fact of the matter is, the game isn't going to see significant development.
the game recently, I'd say they are pretty close. This new patch should make a difference for a lot of people, and the expertise trees even more so. Smuggling, which has never been in the game in any way shape or form, should be coming after that, and a lot of people have wanted that since beta.
The game's not getting worse. It's getting better, and the population is growing because of it. What remains to be seen is whether or not that
Many of disagree that it is getting better. In fact, it continues to go in the wrong direction not to mention the fact that they still have engineering problems. The later, I will conced, as effect all releases of SWG not just the NGE.
population can grow larger than preCU at its lowest point (it would be very difficult for SWG to reach launch numbers without something greater than the NGE to push it, but the NGE is the first step in that). I think the simple fact that SWG is currently growing puts it ahead of the preCU, which most certainly wasn't.
Again, the is a fantasy on your part. The game will not grow. The fact they are trying to make it an FPS geared toward PvP indicates they know the game is on its last breath. They are just trying to get the extra $$. But, even then,
you will never see the game grow to pre-CU levels let alone anything approaching WoW. SOE/LA missed the boat and that boat is never coming back.
Squidi I would also give you the following advice before making posts liek the above by asking yourself several questions:
Who is my target audience?
Who am I trying to convience?
Do I have the tools necessary to convience them?
Do I have the ability necessary to convience them?
Is it worth the effort or energy to convience them?
What do I hope to gain?
I suspect if you answer those questions of your post before you post, you might find your posts are of higher quality and more flame proof.
And before you get yer panties truly in a bind here, keep in mind, this is about SOE's credibility as well. Of which, they've managed to do a well job pavewaying it in quite a glorious fashion.
The bottom line here is that they lost a substantial amount of subs when the NGE went live. Furthermore, and perhaps quite related, they took a huge credibility hit with the ToOW fiasco (which is only further magnified by SOE's already egregious reputation). Consider the fact that they're still trying to make, as you say, the NGE playable -- never mind the content -- and you've got to wonder what has amounted of all the progress of previous years. I think it's really silly to assume that the era of NGE is going to be any different, especially as technology continues to evolve.
That said, I'm certain they consider the NGE rollout a mistake on subscription loss alone. They're completely unwilling to admit it, likely because they're totally committed to the system whether they want to be or not. Knowing how "enterprise solutions" (perhaps the most evil think tank in IT) work for large companies, I would not at all be surprised if this was the case.
-- xpaladin
[MMOz]
AC1/2, AO, DAoC, EQ1/2, SoR, SWG, UO, WAR, WoW
That said, I'm certain they consider the NGE rollout a mistake on subscription loss alone. They're completely unwilling to admit it, likely because they're totally committed to the system whether they want to be or not. Knowing how "enterprise solutions" (perhaps the most evil think tank in IT) work for large companies, I would not at all be surprised if this was the case.
xPaladin you speak the truth!
And before you get yer panties truly in a bind here, keep in mind, this is about SOE's credibility as well. Of which, they've managed to do a well job pavewaying it in quite a glorious fashion.
The bottom line here is that they lost a substantial amount of subs when the NGE went live. Furthermore, and perhaps quite related, they took a huge credibility hit with the ToOW fiasco (which is only further magnified by SOE's already egregious reputation). Consider the fact that they're still trying to make, as you say, the NGE playable -- never mind the content -- and you've got to wonder what has amounted of all the progress of previous years. I think it's really silly to assume that the era of NGE is going to be any different, especially as technology continues to evolve.
That said, I'm certain they consider the NGE rollout a mistake on subscription loss alone. They're completely unwilling to admit it, likely because they're totally committed to the system whether they want to be or not. Knowing how "enterprise solutions" (perhaps the most evil think tank in IT) work for large companies, I would not at all be surprised if this was the case.
Preach on brother. SOE could never admit that they were wrong - again - with SWG. By virtue of the fact that I have to read publish 29-32 plans in hopes that there will continue to be a reason to play this game, SOE was disasterously wrong - again.
If any aspect of this game, other than the Star Wars name, worked, SOE wouldn't be continuously dicking around with changes and begging people to "give them time to fix the bugs". Hell, the Star Wars name is the only thing that hasn't changed.
So what's the enterprise solution? Find someone else to blame, "an oversaturated market", "an age gap in the player base" that makes it impossible to please both the old and new players (likely older and younger btw), or simply the fading of the franchise. Or perhaps even some combination thereof will work. SWG will be axed and soon.
I'm actually waiting for the day when I get the e-mail telling me they're done collecting my $15 per month as the servers are closing down. I'm going to print it and frame it. All I wanted to do was build a camp and be a CH . . .
As someone who has had a station pass, I can tell you that your pass doesn't make you a subscriber to all games UNLESS you add a CD key for that game. I had SWG, EQ2, and MxO on my account and that's what I had access to play because I put the keys in, I had zero access to Planetside and EQ (not even the forums) because I didn't put a key in for those games.
Therefore, if there are 60K pass subs (just a random number) that doesn't increase the subscriber base of ALL station pass games by 60K.
Until you cancel your subscription, you are only helping to continue the cycle of mediocrity.
As someone who has had a station pass, I can tell you that your pass doesn't make you a subscriber to all games UNLESS you add a CD key for that game. I had SWG, EQ2, and MxO on my account and that's what I had access to play because I put the keys in, I had zero access to Planetside and EQ (not even the forums) because I didn't put a key in for those games.
Therefore, if there are 60K pass subs (just a random number) that doesn't increase the subscriber base of ALL station pass games by 60K.
Well, it doesn't change the fact that SOE could change its account practices on this matter. It isn't like SOE is above this kind of thing.
Besides, the mmorpgchart.org gave SOE a "C" on reliablity which means the real numbers are unflatering to SOE. As someone else pointed out, they bragged about EQ having some 700K subscribers.
Who is my target audience?
Who am I trying to convience?
Do I have the tools necessary to convience them?
Do I have the ability necessary to convience them?
Is it worth the effort or energy to convience them?
What do I hope to gain?
I suspect if you answer those questions of your post before you post, you might find your posts are of higher quality and more flame proof.
Considering your amazing spelling ability and the fact that you don't listen, don't respond to what is said, and just make up shit, I'd really think twice before flaming someone else on the quality of their posts. Unless you think that this forum is filled with illiterate 12 year olds and are just trying to play to the crowd, of course. In which case, man, you are good at it!
Squidi, I dont care what you and your retard friends claim to see. The game is NOT growing. Get that through your fanboi brain. Smedley, you know him...the guy who's President of SOE...that guy stated the game is still LOSING players.
Its beyond me to comprehend the ignorance of fanbois like Squidi who think their personal observations are evidence of growth. Do you see the accounts that are cancelled ? Do you see the accounts that were running on prepaid cards that continue to expire without renewels ?
Until Smedley comes out and states the game is growing we can all assume its not. And you dam well better believe if that ever did happen (growth), Smedley would have the SOE PR machine screaming about it to everyone.
Accept the fact that the game you have chosen to play is a failure. And accept the fact that you arent smart enough to quit when a company spits in your face, steals your money to develop another game in secret, and repeatedly lies to you.
truth hurts
Is spelling all you have to attack? LOL. And I thought I had responding to all your points --
so how exactly am I not listening? Clearly, you took the context of my replies out of context so
it is hard for anyone to follow what is being said.
Anyway, I am not clear who you are trying to sway with your pro-SWG arguments? Certainly not me. And certainly not the majority of people here.
That said, I'm certain they consider the NGE rollout a mistake on subscription loss alone. They're completely unwilling to admit it, likely because they're totally committed to the system whether they want to be or not. Knowing how "enterprise solutions" (perhaps the most evil think tank in IT) work for large companies, I would not at all be surprised if this was the case.
xPaladin you speak the truth!
give SOE over to a monkey with a half a brain and he could make it better.
Playing: EVE Online
Favorite MMOs: WoW, SWG Pre-cu, Lineage 2, UO, EQ, EVE online
Looking forward to: Archeage, Kingdom Under Fire 2
KUF2's Official Website - http://www.kufii.com/ENG/ -
Who is my target audience?
Who am I trying to convience?
Do I have the tools necessary to convience them?
Do I have the ability necessary to convience them?
Is it worth the effort or energy to convience them?
What do I hope to gain?
I suspect if you answer those questions of your post before you post, you might find your posts are of higher quality and more flame proof.
Considering your amazing spelling ability and the fact that you don't listen, don't respond to what is said, and just make up shit, I'd really think twice before flaming someone else on the quality of their posts. Unless you think that this forum is filled with illiterate 12 year olds and are just trying to play to the crowd, of course. In which case, man, you are good at it!
Someone sounds a little bitchy tonight.