Originally posted by Anofalye Originally posted by iceman00 Originally posted by Squidi Old news. Maybe this article could've had some value SIX MONTHS ago, but at this late stage in the game, it is little more than a grudge. You want to write something about SWG, why not send someone in there to write about the state of the game TODAY, not SIX MONTHS ago. Just in case you missed it, SIX MONTHS ago. Even in the real world, six months is old news. Just become some whiney vets still carry that grudge long past its expiration date (and look at how mature they are about it) does NOT make it relevant. It's just pandering, plain and simple.
Write about the current state of the game. Hell, if you want, I'll do it. Just GET OVER IT ALREADY. A public editorial is not the place to play out an ages old grudge.
To be honest I was waiting for when you would post your fanboiness. Good to see ya Squidi.
However, if you actually read the editorial, you'll notice it has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE GAMEPLAY PER SE, but rather the reasons why the gameplay was changed. Nowhere did I criticize the iconic ideas or the FPS stuff. Been there, done that, got the T shirt. However, I've yet to see an editorial here (or anyone in these forums) actually crystalizing and giving a summa of the points I made.
Don't get all upset because an editorial slams your game. :-p
First, nice editorial Iceman00, I learn and enjoy the reading.
Second, I understand Squidi post and he made a point about 95% of you are failing to grasp, yes he is angry, he is outraged, he is defending the holy ground. However, past this emotional outburst, he pinpoint that, from a GAMING point of view, gameplay wise, your editorial is worth nothing.
So, yes I enjoy your reading, yes I actually like and think your editorial is good and pertinent. However, from purely a player point of view, your editorial could have said Smedley is about to be father and it wouldn't have been any more or less pertinent.
I am looking forward to read more editorials from you, as a Game Designer myself, not as a player. Nor as a bruised and hurted player either (this made them a LOT of good). Was your editorial good? No, it was brilliant! It show MMORPG stuff, some reality, some decisions and this help can be read for learning by any wanna-be dev AND it explain a lot of WHY players quit, explain their decisions.
In the same time, I want to support Squidi, because as a currently subscribing player, he is right, your post bring no new information about the GAME or some gameplay, it is behind the scene and rather negative. I could easily see myself in Squidi's place, but I never like this game to start with! But try to explain why SSI died just to see my reaction? I can promise you not to use the biggest nails as I crucified you!
That assumes it was neccessarily from a gameplay standpoint, which it wasn't. It was a discussion of ethics, and you can gaurentee future companies are looking at this. So I still think you missed the point as well, though are far more cordial with Squidi.
Definitely the best writeup I've seen on the NGE. Well done!
What amazes me is that SOE could make this mistake. While they've made tons in the past, this one seemed so far out there that it made me wonder.
Look at the whole design of the NGE? It was to sell more boxes. They didn't even finish designing it for those that got past the initial 'levels'.
Who benefits most from selling more boxes? Lucasarts. And, LucasArts are well-known for such mistakes as this. I'm betting it was a 'Put these changes in or we pull the license' threat, and SOE just has to say they go along with it for legal reasons.
Sad thing is.. they are in the process of doing it, in some ways, to EQ2 as well. Though not so drastically. You're seeing more and more features, taken straight from WoW, making their way into EQ2.
The thing is, they're not understanding that WoW's success rides on many factors... A: It's Warcraft. B: It's Blizzard. C. It's Warcraft. D. It's the first MMOG to come out that specifically targets the cross-section of people who cried out the most about not having a MMO they wanted to play. Everything was simply too challenging, too involved, etc. etc. Blizzard delivered what they'd been asking for. E. It's Warcraft.
I don't know why people suddenly decide "Oh.. look at their numbers.. we're doing this all wrong!"
No.. You're not. You designed a game with a very specific end-result in mind. With SWG they'd succeeded and enjoyed a healthy player-base. They did it with EQ2, attracting a playerbase who played it, in part, because it *wasn't* World of Warcraft. Suddenly, WoW comes along and they're all "Oh my god, what have we done!" You made a solid game that, while certainly a niche game, had a healthy and loyal playerbase. That's what you did. Be happy..
But.. no. Thanks to one simple word, they went and squandered, betrayed and ultimately lost a large portion of their once loyal player-base... That word is "Greed".
What they *should* have done, in my opinion, is taken some notes from Blizzard/WoW and then perhaps looked to develop a new MMO with those design principles in mind. Much better to do it from the ground-up then to try and retro-fit easy/casual-friendly gameplay elements into a game that was not designed for them. But.. again.. they got greedy. They wanted a piece of the pie that Blizzard was enjoying.. and they paid for it by hemmoraging subscribers.
Have they learned? Dunno... I wonder if the "suits" at SOE have ever seen a MMO, much less played one, in their lives. The only game they seem to understand is "numbers" and "bottom lines"... unfortunately, they fail to understand, nor care about, the portion of their customers providing those numbers.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
I rarely (if ever) post here, but this is a topic I agree with more than anything I've read in quite a while. In fact, my friend and I were talking about SWG at work today and we both mentioned it was too bad SOE decided to effectively pull the plug on the game.
We both brought up some of these same reasonings and came to the conclusion it was basically a worthless game to play, that others had done what they suddenly tried to adopt a magnitude of 1000 times better. If I wanted to play a game like that, I would be playing WoW (which I'm not). It's especially bad that after they were almost done making their final fixes on classes they turned the game on it's head and dumped it in the backroom bargain bin of most gamestores.
I would honestly give SWG another chance in a heartbeat if they would admit they were wrong, and switch back. As it is, their mythical player base isn't going to appear, and their gravy train is over. I've even given up my SOE station pass as the other game I played, EQ2, went through time after time of missed promises and false hopes. I'm tired of SOE's policy of ignoring their customer, here's one customer that will be ignoring them back...with my wallet.
Meh, SWG was ruined far before the NGE. They had ruined it with the addition of the Jedi grind. There is nothing worse than taking a perfectly good comunity and then uprooting the goal of 90% of them and then expecting everything to turn out good. Jedi were the begining of the end of SWG plain and simple, everything there after was just continued kicks to the crotch. On top of all that Smugglers still, at least when i quit, dont SMUGGLE anything and the one true joy of being a BH was stripped away...... MEH!!
------------------------- ESA Explorer 80% Socializer 46% Achiever 40% Killer 33% -------------------------
"I wonder if the "suits" at SOE have ever seen a MMO, much less played one, in their lives. "
Here is a little tid-bit from an interview with Nancy Macintyre a little while after NGE; "people dont want a virtual world, they want to do what they've seen in the movies"
Seriously, she said that. I was completely amazed that anyone in charge of an MMO of all things would say something like that in an interview. I think I've said this before, but they must be promoting people at SOE by drawing there name out of a hat. Nancy must have been a secretary before she became a game developer. Either that, or she could suck the sorrow off a recent widow.
Originally posted by crazyboarder Meh, SWG was ruined far before the NGE. They had ruined it with the addition of the Jedi grind. There is nothing worse than taking a perfectly good comunity and then uprooting the goal of 90% of them and then expecting everything to turn out good. Jedi were the begining of the end of SWG plain and simple, everything there after was just continued kicks to the crotch. On top of all that Smugglers still, at least when i quit, dont SMUGGLE anything and the one true joy of being a BH was stripped away...... MEH!!
QFE..
I've always said this. Once people were told they could grind through profs over and over to get jedi, that was it. The economy went to *tish, the crafters all got destroyed, merchants became a dime a million, and along with all that housing and urban sprawl became a HUGE issue, not all because of this, but partially (players grinding through things setting up a house with a merchant to sell the drastically underpriced junk they churned out to grind a prof).
"I wonder if the "suits" at SOE have ever seen a MMO, much less played one, in their lives. "
Here is a little tid-bit from an interview with Nancy Macintyre a little while after NGE; "people dont want a virtual world, they want to do what they've seen in the movies"
Seriously, she said that. I was completely amazed that anyone in charge of an MMO of all things would say something like that in an interview. I think I've said this before, but they must be promoting people at SOE by drawing there name out of a hat. Nancy must have been a secretary before she became a game developer. Either that, or she could suck the sorrow off a recent widow.
Lol, thats not surprising when you had a lead Dev saying (regarding camps, and the removal thereof)
"Helios_SOE wrote: "So, you just sat there and it was fun? (that's a serious question)."
I mean if that don't tell ya everything you need to know about the type of folks in charge of this "MMORPG", then nothing will...
This artical is exactily what i needed to see now i can rest in the fact that SOE and SWG have both been nothing but a great disapointment. I am glad to see that out of all the articals i have read and all the coverage i have seen on this subject that this one pits the nail right on the head.
Copying WoW is ridiculous and shows the lack of creativity, insecurity, & envy from SOE's management. And the truth of the matter is that SOE does have some talent. But I bet that talent is held back due to the idiots that run it all. As a beta tester of SWG I was so let down by poor game design. Vehicles & space were a breath of fresh air but they have done nothing with space in the last 2 years. Wookie textures look like a old background texture from Mac OS 7 which is the surface for Naboo. And what’s funny is that I make better content with map editors then these noobs for other games and mods!
I for one crave a really good SCI FI MMO and cannot wait for my 3 month SWG subscription to come to a closure! This articles says it all!!!!!
****attention******SOE----- Quality also means originality. Copying the formula that Blizzard made is like sticking your head in lava. From the world of IT I call you “eeee-deeeee-ots”.
I AM that veteran Kevin so eloquently writes about. I have played since beta. At one point i had 4 accounts. The CU killed my guild, town , and community. Of the 100 plus friend list I have only 2 who play now and one of those is quitting when his sub runs out.
Kevin is completely spot on regarding the WOW effect and that impact on gameplay.
The factor he missed is that the current developers do not even "get" what made us happy. They never had a camp that strangers wandered in and became friends. They never knew the thrill of getting those babies tamed or sampling dna from something very likely to turn and kill you dead. They never spent entire nights within a town cantina jammed with friends who played trivia and made up silly contests to pass time together as a change to the massive hunts we planned and shared as a group.
I miss what has gone and dread what is to come. Each time I finally find a way to work around their "improvements" it changes yet again.
I an trying very hard not to become another in the " Alien(ated) Nation."
I applaud you MMORPG.COM , this is by far the best of the best of summarys . Let the games begin.
I wonder if SOE/LA has people reading these forums, if so i truly do hope they take this to heart and wake up b.c they really do not know how bad they F**Ked up.
One would hope that the industy has learned from the horrible mess made of SWG, but sadly, this isn't the first time that game have been ruined by bad management and it certainly won't be the last. I have beta tested dozens of games and I see the same mistakes being made time and time again. Few developers listen to their customers and so for many, its just one disappointmetn after another.
In beta testing, over half of the games are released before the promised features are implemented and the mojor bugs are fixed, even though the testers tell them over and over again that its not ready. This has 2 bad effects: new players are turned off by the incomplete and buggy game and it takes the developers twice as long to fix the problems because now they have to also provide new monthly content.
Probably 90% of the games don't do enough stress testing proir to release so the first week or two is filled with frustrated customers who can't connect, can't get their account working, have terrible lag when they do connect and are frequently disconnected due to server crashes/hangs/overload. For games in bad shape, this lasts for months, not just weeks.
However, for the games that progress beyond these common problems, its the design and balance that will finally make or break the long term viability of a game. This is also where the developers typically pay the least attention to the advice from beta testers and have to hear it again and again after release and then some like SOE still choose to ignore it until most of their player base is gone and its too late.
SOE is not the first to ruina game by making it too simple. Blizzard made the same mistake with AC2, where they took the great ideas from AC1, added a much better graphics engine, impoved UI with multiple moveable windpws and then compleyely ruined what could have been a great game by simplifying the great diversity of AC1 and making all the classes feel almost the same to play. They also took the challenging leveling process where it took a year to reach the top level and made it easy to max out in less than a month! The only think that saved them from killing their whole player base was releasing it as a new game instead of an upgrade to AC1. Then when the players got disgusted with the shallow game in AC2, they could at least return to AC1.
I first tried SWG when they had their free trial offer after being released for a year. It still had bugs, but by then it was relatively stable and i was really impressed by the depth of the crafting professions. You could play characters that didn't have to spend most of their time killing stuff. I also loved how players could organize their own town with elected administration. So I subcribed at the end of the free trial and tried out many of the different professions (unfortunately, with only one character/server, I had to spread them over 3 or 4 servers).
My favorite character was a combination pet trainer and bio-engineer. I loved the diversity of skills and the fact that they weren't tied to player levels. When they announced the space-ship expansion I was hoping for features like Earth & Beyond had where you could mine asteroids, etc. They did add nice crafting for building ships, but I was very disappointed that once in space, all you could do was fight.
I got into the WoW beta and decided to take a break from SWG. WoW had few bugs and their main problem was that they were mpre sucessful than they had expected and couldn't add servers fast enough to keep up with the demand. The biggest thing that I like about WoW is that the UI can be completely customized in Lua. AC1 had a sanctioned hack that allowed scripting in JavaScript, but with WoW, it was designed in. This is what keeps me playing WoW long after many other veterans have got bored and left.
Late last year, SWG invited me to come back and try their 'improved' game... imagine my shock when I logged in and found that my favorite profesions no longer existed and half my inventory was now just junk! To really rub it in my face, none of my favorite pets thet I had trained could even be called because the required skill no longer existed. I tried the new system, but all of what made it different and interesting was gone. Now it was just another hack and slash grind to gain levels...
My main complaints with WoW are: - skills are all tied to levels, so all crafters have to fight to advance. - rigid class types with no hybrids. - no player housing or player controlled towns. - players can't create any permanent visible changes to the game. - no player run shops or player controlled vendors.
These are all features that SWG had and that I really miss, but I'm still waitng for that 'ideal' game.
wow, so many replies to this article, it sure shows that a nerv was touched here. and in short, i have to agree with the original article here, especially the part about word-to-word propaganda.
i played mxo last year and meet a swg player (before cu) - so i switched, just after cu. then came the nge... noone, really noone, not even the ones remaining faithful to swg, are saying anything positive to get in new players, rather the opposite. i am a sucker, so i once in a while come back to check on things in swg, but it is so sad how empty everything is
there r these rumors of an pre-cu emulator, no matter how legal or not that may be, where ex-players seem to eagerly await its coming. not because they save monthly fee, but because it is pre-cu. now isn't that interesting!?
It is sad that SOE and Lucasarts still hasn't gotten it through their heads that there are valid reasons why the current playerbase has been screaming bloody murder since last November.
-- "Helios_SOE wrote: "So, you just sat there and it was fun? (that's a serious question)." --
Umm... have they never seen the popularity of chat rooms. HELLOOOO!!! And in a chat room you don't even have the joy of looking at the... uh.... scenery that other players choose to make with their female characters.
Personally, I found sitting in an advanced camp with 6 guild mates to be quite enjoyable. In fact, I miss that.
Another thing- why nix the entertainer profession? With that profession you can appeal to any chat-room addict. rrgh. It was one of the things that made SWG unique and made the virtual world feel "populated" and "alive". There is little that makes a virtual world feel more cold to me than to walk into a building and find the only thing in there to be NPCs in a smattering here and there in an obvious attempt to make it seem "active and alive". Entertainers did that very thing!
Comments
This is the most beautiful thing I have ever read. I swear, I am about to cry.
This sums up SWG's history in the best way possible. I propose that we all forward article to SOE and see what they think.
To be honest I was waiting for when you would post your fanboiness.
Good to see ya Squidi.
However, if you actually read the editorial, you'll notice it has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE GAMEPLAY PER SE, but rather the reasons why the gameplay was changed. Nowhere did I criticize the iconic ideas or the FPS stuff. Been there, done that, got the T shirt. However, I've yet to see an editorial here (or anyone in these forums) actually crystalizing and giving a summa of the points I made.
Don't get all upset because an editorial slams your game. :-p
First, nice editorial Iceman00, I learn and enjoy the reading.
Second, I understand Squidi post and he made a point about 95% of you are failing to grasp, yes he is angry, he is outraged, he is defending the holy ground. However, past this emotional outburst, he pinpoint that, from a GAMING point of view, gameplay wise, your editorial is worth nothing.
So, yes I enjoy your reading, yes I actually like and think your editorial is good and pertinent. However, from purely a player point of view, your editorial could have said Smedley is about to be father and it wouldn't have been any more or less pertinent.
I am looking forward to read more editorials from you, as a Game Designer myself, not as a player. Nor as a bruised and hurted player either (this made them a LOT of good). Was your editorial good? No, it was brilliant! It show MMORPG stuff, some reality, some decisions and this help can be read for learning by any wanna-be dev AND it explain a lot of WHY players quit, explain their decisions.
In the same time, I want to support Squidi, because as a currently subscribing player, he is right, your post bring no new information about the GAME or some gameplay, it is behind the scene and rather negative. I could easily see myself in Squidi's place, but I never like this game to start with! But try to explain why SSI died just to see my reaction? I can promise you not to use the biggest nails as I crucified you!
That assumes it was neccessarily from a gameplay standpoint, which it wasn't. It was a discussion of ethics, and you can gaurentee future companies are looking at this. So I still think you missed the point as well, though are far more cordial with Squidi.
nicely stated. maybe you should apply to head up SOE they really need your incite!!!!!!
What amazes me is that SOE could make this mistake. While they've made tons in the past, this one seemed so far out there that it made me wonder.
Look at the whole design of the NGE? It was to sell more boxes. They didn't even finish designing it for those that got past the initial 'levels'.
Who benefits most from selling more boxes? Lucasarts. And, LucasArts are well-known for such mistakes as this. I'm betting it was a 'Put these changes in or we pull the license' threat, and SOE just has to say they go along with it for legal reasons.
____________________________________________
im to lazy too use grammar or punctuation good
Nice Review.. Its a shame that this once popular mmorpg is a pile of dung now.
The thing is, they're not understanding that WoW's success rides on many factors... A: It's Warcraft. B: It's Blizzard. C. It's Warcraft. D. It's the first MMOG to come out that specifically targets the cross-section of people who cried out the most about not having a MMO they wanted to play. Everything was simply too challenging, too involved, etc. etc. Blizzard delivered what they'd been asking for. E. It's Warcraft.
I don't know why people suddenly decide "Oh.. look at their numbers.. we're doing this all wrong!"
No.. You're not. You designed a game with a very specific end-result in mind. With SWG they'd succeeded and enjoyed a healthy player-base. They did it with EQ2, attracting a playerbase who played it, in part, because it *wasn't* World of Warcraft. Suddenly, WoW comes along and they're all "Oh my god, what have we done!" You made a solid game that, while certainly a niche game, had a healthy and loyal playerbase. That's what you did. Be happy..
But.. no. Thanks to one simple word, they went and squandered, betrayed and ultimately lost a large portion of their once loyal player-base... That word is "Greed".
What they *should* have done, in my opinion, is taken some notes from Blizzard/WoW and then perhaps looked to develop a new MMO with those design principles in mind. Much better to do it from the ground-up then to try and retro-fit easy/casual-friendly gameplay elements into a game that was not designed for them. But.. again.. they got greedy. They wanted a piece of the pie that Blizzard was enjoying.. and they paid for it by hemmoraging subscribers.
Have they learned? Dunno... I wonder if the "suits" at SOE have ever seen a MMO, much less played one, in their lives. The only game they seem to understand is "numbers" and "bottom lines"... unfortunately, they fail to understand, nor care about, the portion of their customers providing those numbers.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
We both brought up some of these same reasonings and came to the conclusion it was basically a worthless game to play, that others had done what they suddenly tried to adopt a magnitude of 1000 times better. If I wanted to play a game like that, I would be playing WoW (which I'm not). It's especially bad that after they were almost done making their final fixes on classes they turned the game on it's head and dumped it in the backroom bargain bin of most gamestores.
I would honestly give SWG another chance in a heartbeat if they would admit they were wrong, and switch back. As it is, their mythical player base isn't going to appear, and their gravy train is over. I've even given up my SOE station pass as the other game I played, EQ2, went through time after time of missed promises and false hopes. I'm tired of SOE's policy of ignoring their customer, here's one customer that will be ignoring them back...with my wallet.
-------------------------
ESA
Explorer 80%
Socializer 46%
Achiever 40%
Killer 33%
-------------------------
"I wonder if the "suits" at SOE have ever seen a MMO, much less played one, in their lives. "
Here is a little tid-bit from an interview with Nancy Macintyre a little while after NGE; "people dont want a virtual world, they want to do what they've seen in the movies"
Seriously, she said that. I was completely amazed that anyone in charge of an MMO of all things would say something like that in an interview. I think I've said this before, but they must be promoting people at SOE by drawing there name out of a hat. Nancy must have been a secretary before she became a game developer. Either that, or she could suck the sorrow off a recent widow.
QFE..
I've always said this. Once people were told they could grind through profs over and over to get jedi, that was it. The economy went to *tish, the crafters all got destroyed, merchants became a dime a million, and along with all that housing and urban sprawl became a HUGE issue, not all because of this, but partially (players grinding through things setting up a house with a merchant to sell the drastically underpriced junk they churned out to grind a prof).
Lol, thats not surprising when you had a lead Dev saying (regarding camps, and the removal thereof)
"Helios_SOE wrote: "So, you just sat there and it was fun? (that's a serious question)."
I mean if that don't tell ya everything you need to know about the type of folks in charge of this "MMORPG", then nothing will...
idiots.
This artical is exactily what i needed to see now i can rest in the fact that SOE and SWG have both been nothing but a great disapointment.
I am glad to see that out of all the articals i have read and all the coverage i have seen on this subject that this one pits the nail right on the head.
This is a well written article.
Copying WoW is ridiculous and
shows the lack of creativity, insecurity, & envy from SOE's management. And the truth of the matter is that SOE does have some
talent. But I bet that talent is held back due to the idiots that run it all. As
a beta tester of SWG I was so let down by poor game design. Vehicles & space
were a breath of fresh air but they have done nothing with space in the last 2 years.
Wookie textures look like a old background texture from Mac OS 7 which is the
surface for Naboo. And what’s funny is that I make better content with map
editors then these noobs for other games and mods!
I for one crave a really good
SCI FI MMO and cannot wait for
my 3 month SWG subscription to come to a closure! This articles says it
all!!!!!
****attention******SOE----- Quality also means originality. Copying
“eeee-deeeee-ots”.
the formula that Blizzard made is like sticking your head in lava. From the world
of IT I call you
I AM that veteran Kevin so eloquently writes about. I have played since beta. At one point i had 4 accounts. The CU killed my guild, town , and community. Of the 100 plus friend list I have only 2 who play now and one of those is quitting when his sub runs out.
Kevin is completely spot on regarding the WOW effect and that impact on gameplay.
The factor he missed is that the current developers do not even "get" what made us happy. They never had a camp that strangers wandered in and became friends. They never knew the thrill of getting those babies tamed or sampling dna from something very likely to turn and kill you dead. They never spent entire nights within a town cantina jammed with friends who played trivia and made up silly contests to pass time together as a change to the massive hunts we planned and shared as a group.
I miss what has gone and dread what is to come. Each time I finally find a way to work around their "improvements" it changes yet again.
I an trying very hard not to become another in the " Alien(ated) Nation."
I wonder if SOE/LA has people reading these forums, if so i truly do hope they take this to heart and wake up b.c they really do not know how bad they F**Ked up.
I /bow to you mmorpg.com
One would hope that the industy has learned from the horrible mess made of SWG, but sadly, this isn't the first time that game have been ruined by bad management and it certainly won't be the last. I have beta tested dozens of games and I see the same mistakes being made time and time again. Few developers listen to their customers and so for many, its just one disappointmetn after another.
In beta testing, over half of the games are released before the promised features are implemented and the mojor bugs are fixed, even though the testers tell them over and over again that its not ready. This has 2 bad effects: new players are turned off by the incomplete and buggy game and it takes the developers twice as long to fix the problems because now they have to also provide new monthly content.
Probably 90% of the games don't do enough stress testing proir to release so the first week or two is filled with frustrated customers who can't connect, can't get their account working, have terrible lag when they do connect and are frequently disconnected due to server crashes/hangs/overload. For games in bad shape, this lasts for months, not just weeks.
However, for the games that progress beyond these common problems, its the design and balance that will finally make or break the long term viability of a game. This is also where the developers typically pay the least attention to the advice from beta testers and have to hear it again and again after release and then some like SOE still choose to ignore it until most of their player base is gone and its too late.
SOE is not the first to ruina game by making it too simple. Blizzard made the same mistake with AC2, where they took the great ideas from AC1, added a much better graphics engine, impoved UI with multiple moveable windpws and then compleyely ruined what could have been a great game by simplifying the great diversity of AC1 and making all the classes feel almost the same to play. They also took the challenging leveling process where it took a year to reach the top level and made it easy to max out in less than a month! The only think that saved them from killing their whole player base was releasing it as a new game instead of an upgrade to AC1. Then when the players got disgusted with the shallow game in AC2, they could at least return to AC1.
I first tried SWG when they had their free trial offer after being released for a year. It still had bugs, but by then it was relatively stable and i was really impressed by the depth of the crafting professions. You could play characters that didn't have to spend most of their time killing stuff. I also loved how players could organize their own town with elected administration. So I subcribed at the end of the free trial and tried out many of the different professions (unfortunately, with only one character/server, I had to spread them over 3 or 4 servers).
My favorite character was a combination pet trainer and bio-engineer. I loved the diversity of skills and the fact that they weren't tied to player levels. When they announced the space-ship expansion I was hoping for features like Earth & Beyond had where you could mine asteroids, etc. They did add nice crafting for building ships, but I was very disappointed that once in space, all you could do was fight.
I got into the WoW beta and decided to take a break from SWG. WoW had few bugs and their main problem was that they were mpre sucessful than they had expected and couldn't add servers fast enough to keep up with the demand. The biggest thing that I like about WoW is that the UI can be completely customized in Lua. AC1 had a sanctioned hack that allowed scripting in JavaScript, but with WoW, it was designed in. This is what keeps me playing WoW long after many other veterans have got bored and left.
Late last year, SWG invited me to come back and try their 'improved' game... imagine my shock when I logged in and found that my favorite profesions no longer existed and half my inventory was now just junk! To really rub it in my face, none of my favorite pets thet I had trained could even be called because the required skill no longer existed. I tried the new system, but all of what made it different and interesting was gone. Now it was just another hack and slash grind to gain levels...
My main complaints with WoW are:
- skills are all tied to levels, so all crafters have to fight to advance.
- rigid class types with no hybrids.
- no player housing or player controlled towns.
- players can't create any permanent visible changes to the game.
- no player run shops or player controlled vendors.
These are all features that SWG had and that I really miss, but I'm still waitng for that 'ideal' game.
and in short, i have to agree with the original article here, especially the part about word-to-word propaganda.
i played mxo last year and meet a swg player (before cu) - so i switched, just after cu. then came the nge...
noone, really noone, not even the ones remaining faithful to swg, are saying anything positive to get in new players, rather the opposite.
i am a sucker, so i once in a while come back to check on things in swg, but it is so sad how empty everything is
there r these rumors of an pre-cu emulator, no matter how legal or not that may be, where ex-players seem to eagerly await its coming. not because they save monthly fee, but because it is pre-cu. now isn't that interesting!?
This editorial hits the nail on the head.
-- "Helios_SOE wrote: "So, you just sat there and it was fun? (that's a serious question)." --
Umm... have they never seen the popularity of chat rooms. HELLOOOO!!! And in a chat room you don't even have the joy of looking at the... uh.... scenery that other players choose to make with their female characters.
Personally, I found sitting in an advanced camp with 6 guild mates to be quite enjoyable. In fact, I miss that.
Another thing- why nix the entertainer profession? With that profession you can appeal to any chat-room addict. rrgh. It was one of the things that made SWG unique and made the virtual world feel "populated" and "alive". There is little that makes a virtual world feel more cold to me than to walk into a building and find the only thing in there to be NPCs in a smattering here and there in an obvious attempt to make it seem "active and alive". Entertainers did that very thing!
has my account on swg expired after cu i can no longer post on the swg forums.
has anyone tried to post this artical there? and if so was it deleted?
would be nice to have a soe/la rep reply to this post..