WoW is a good game from 1 - 59, sadly at 60 it's all grinding and raiding. The expansion will tell us a lot about where Blizz is heading with this game. In this, I think it's WoW's playability in PvE from 1 - 59 that keeps it popular.
Until a company can come along and break from this cycle, WoW will dominate for some time to come.
What it comes down to is - Guild wars doesn't have monthly fees. WoW does. That makes a HUGE difference in how harsh people are on their ratings! You have to look at Guild Wars as if compaired to Dungeon Siege, not WoW since it doesn't have a monthly fee. If you compair to WoW it is simply better because it IS Comparable and yet doesn't have a monthly fee.
Plus, if you have a group of friends to play with... Guild wars just blows the snot out of WoW. The strategies and teamwork involved in guild wars is staggering, but it's only good if you use voice chat and have a great group of friends to play with.
What it comes down to is - Guild wars doesn't have monthly fees. WoW does. That makes a HUGE difference in how harsh people are on their ratings! You have to look at Guild Wars as if compaired to Dungeon Siege, not WoW since it doesn't have a monthly fee. If you compair to WoW it is simply better because it IS Comparable and yet doesn't have a monthly fee.
Plus, if you have a group of friends to play with... Guild wars just blows the snot out of WoW. The strategies and teamwork involved in guild wars is staggering, but it's only good if you use voice chat and have a great group of friends to play with.
Despite being free, GW has a very small player base in comparison to WoW . Such games do not enjoy mass appeal even when free. WoW has a players base larger than all the top mmorpgs combined and one has to ask why?
Simple, from 1 - 59 it allows people to be individuals in an explorabe world. To me, end-game is horrible and I believe it will be it's ultimate downfall if Blizz does not recognize it's failures.
I think people are being way too hard on WoW. Im not by any means a wow fanbois but I hardly see any reason why Guild Wars has a higher rating than WoW. Seriously how the hell is that possible.
Simple, really. Because Guild Wars is a lot more fun than WoW and fewer people that have reviewed it have been overly critical of it. Probably because it's free. Regardless of what anyone says being FREE means that people will overlook things that would otherwise annoy the hell out of them if they were paying a monthly fee to play the game. So whatever shortcomings Guildwars HAS are generally forgiven by most because.... it's free to play.
I tried leaving wow and playing Guild Wars and I was bored out my SKULL in the first day. Im not the only one...Ive had a million and one friends attempt to play GW and the same thing happens.
That's ok. I was bored out of my skull in WoW... WoW never appealed to me. Guild Wars, on the other hand, I found extremely fun, and still play it today. WoW I managed to suffer through a free trial for. And played on and off on a friend's account for a bit. But no way in hell would I have ever paid a monthly fee to play it. Note my above comments: Guildwars has some things that would normally drive me to distraction if I were paying to play the game. But since I am not and I can enjoy it whenever I want, wherever I want and it doesn't cost me any more than it's original purchase price (I got it for $30) those items just don't bother me as much. WoW has things I don't like about it as well (Graphics suck, lack of depth, etc) but since I have to pay $200 a year to play WoW and I pay nothing to play Guild Wars.... 3 guesses as to which one I like better (Well... I'd like guildwars better anyway but I wouldn't pay to subscribe to it).
Yeah wow gets old and raiding sucks I AGREE. I agree the pvp isnt nearly as good as it could be. I understand WoW gets old and when it does you hate the game--- I DO TO. But before that happens there is alot of good playing time.
I don't hate the game. I just don't like it. Never did. Lack of depth... Cartoonish graphics. Low Poly graphics... simplistic quest system.... No death penalty at all.... etc.
The PvP is a blast--although it doesnt quite have the staying power of DAOC pvp. Its easily better than the mindless arena matches of guildwars.
The PVP is pathetic. There's no point to it at all. It's just there and the honor system is a joke. It offers absolutely nothing more than Guild Wars does. And Guild Wars PVP is much more complex and requires much more player skill and ability than WoW does. Personally I don't really PVP much in either. But even TRYING to compare WoW's PVP to DAOC's is just a crime. WoW's PVP in no way even comes close to the depth and complexity of DAOC. Sorry... WoW gets very low marks from me as a "pvp" environment. WoW's PVP is exactly what they made it to be: Simplistic. Also, WoW's PVP is very item affected. Powergamers will ALWAYS fare better in WoW than their opponents because those who have the time to raid raid raid to get the best gear in the game will have tremendous advantages over those who do not. Guild Wars is an even playing field. PowerGamers have no advantage over casual ones in PVP other than experience in PVP. In short: The player's ability to choose what to do and what skills to use etc will determine the outcome in Guild Wars... in WoW it's all about who has the best gear.
And more than anything its a well put together game. I have a very nice pc and it runs smoother, responds quicker and is less buggy than any current game on the market.
That's odd... I have a decent rig. At max settings I can play Guild Wars or WoW equally well. I've never experienced a moment of lag in Guild Wars even in large GvG fights. Gameplay is equally smooth in both. Matter of fact as long as we're comparing my system runs EQ2 just fine as well, though if I crank the settings way up it'll lag a bit. But it's still very playable. And DAOC runs circles around WoW... even on MAX settings.
I know that many of you are tired out of your mind with this game...but worse than GUILD WARS? Come on..be real.
1) Why do you care?
2) Why are you arguing?
The game is fine. But when you're charging me $15 a month to play I'm going to generally be a lot more critical of flaws, especially over a year after release, than I am for a game that is free to play. Sorry, that's just a fact. If you're charging me $15 a month to play you had better be far superior to the game I'm not paying anything to play. Lets compare the price points shall we:
1 year of WoW: $230
1 year of Guild Wars: $50
When one is almost 5x more expensive to play.... is it any wonder people are more critical of it?
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sig image Pending Still in: A couple Betas
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
Originally posted by Gameloading Originally posted by damian7
Originally posted by Themistoles
WoW's popularity is also why so many hate it.
take a sign, move on.
Oh its not true? so I can expect to see you whining about other games with the exact same problem as WoW soon?
hi troll, i was wondering is this a thread i started? and is this thread in the wow forum?
no to both eh?
keep *stuff* about a game i find boring (for a myriad of reasons) out of my sight and i won't be commenting on it in the GENERAL forum.
maybe if you read threads other than JUST wow, you'd see that i do comment (and have from day 1) on other games that i wish devs would improve/change. take your sign and sit down with the other dipshit trolls.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
Originally posted by damian7 Originally posted by Gameloading
Originally posted by damian7
Originally posted by Themistoles
WoW's popularity is also why so many hate it.
take a sign, move on.
Oh its not true? so I can expect to see you whining about other games with the exact same problem as WoW soon?
hi troll, i was wondering is this a thread i started? and is this thread in the wow forum?
no to both eh?
keep *stuff* about a game i find boring (for a myriad of reasons) out of my sight and i won't be commenting on it in the GENERAL forum.
maybe if you read threads other than JUST wow, you'd see that i do comment (and have from day 1) on other games that i wish devs would improve/change. take your sign and sit down with the other dipshit trolls.
You spend 3/4th of your time on mmorpg.com in WoW topics telling everybody how much you hate the game. just admit it, you spend most of your time here to bash WoW. also, there is no reason to insult me, which you have done quite a few times now.
Originally posted by baff I also found the endgame to be the most developed of all MMO's I have ever played. Most MMO's don't even have one. They best they can offer is player driven stuff. For $15 a month, I don't expect to have invent something for myself to do.
there you have it. that is all that was needed to say. you dont want to invent anything for yourself to do. you want everything given to you just like a movie. please, dont you dare to think for yourself.
that sentence quite explained the problem here. some people do not like to think while playing. they believe that games require skill when you need to move your mouse faster than the crappy AI can cope with.
other people like to think whlie playing, like open-endness, freedom, choices. they believe a game takes skill when the more intelligent you are, the better player you get at that game.
so, 2 choices:
1. IF YOU DONT LIKE THINKING, AND WANT EVERYTHING HANDED ON YOU, CAUSE YOUR ARE PAYING TO SAVE YOURSELF FROM THINKING ------->>> YOU WANT TO PLAY WORLD OF WARCRAFT
2. IF YOU LIKE TO THINK WHILE YOU ARE PLAYING, AND LIKE TO INVENT (OHHHHHHHHHHH, I SAID THE FORBIDEN WORD, INVENT) NEW THINGS AND NEW WAYS TO PLAY THE GAME, AND BEING ABLE TO DO THINGS NOBODY HAS DONE BEFORE ------>>>>> YOU DONT WANT TO PLAY WORLD OF WARCRAFT
i like to think that mmorpg.com has more people that would choose the second option, and it gets reflected on the ratings here.
but hey, we are the minority, at least 6 million gamers have decided that they didnt want to invent anything new or be required to think while they are just relaxing and playing a game
I don't mind thinking, it's paying that irks me. I'm perfectly willing to invent things for myself, I still play tabletop Rpg's and write my own adventures, what I am unwilling to do is pay someone to invent things for myself. Unscripted computer games are just lazy. The programmers haven't done any work. We are all able to invent things for ourselves in any multiplayer game at any time. In fact, I can roleplay over MSN, I don't even need a computer game at all. A computer game does not require content to keep my attention, but it requires content to command extra fee's.
There are too many virtual worlds and game enviroments to explore to waste time and money flogging a dead horse. Once I have seen it and done it, I move on. This is the curse of the subscription game. Each month it must earn it's money. Each time I have to pay, I re-evaluate it's worth. Is it still providing me with an enormous amount of new experiences, or is it just a timesink.
Many gamers have a natural aversion to change. Despite having found their chosen game boring, they do not have the strength of mind to quit. Smokers are often the same. They want to stop but they do not have the courage. A lot of people find difficulty in bonding with new communities, once they have done so they are very reluctant to leave them. Although they will be able to find new friends in any online game the process of having to is a problem for them. It's like a sheep mentality. I'd rather spend £10 a month recycling the same old same old with the same old people than go and find something better to do. It's safe and I have my little routine. Just keep your head down and think about the grass you are eating. If the sheep around you move, move to. Don't be thinking I haven't played and enjoyed "player driven games", I'm just not still stuck in them haemoraging money for nothing I haven't seen before.
Raiding is by no means the only additional content added to WoW, there have been a plethora of seasonal events and even in game festivals. Each one opening new rewards and missions, providing temporary items and generally keeping the game "alive". There has also been new area's added and fleshed out. When I was lvl55-60 I was running out of quest content, the next day, the revamped Silithius, providing all the lvl 55-60 quest content I needed to level cap without excessive grinding. Really I couldn't have asked for more.
Originally posted by Necran Originally posted by Eindrachen Originally posted by baff
I don't know who Kaplan is. I've never played with him, I have no idea what his way of playing is. I've heard the name bandied about in the last two WoW threads on this forum, that's all. It makes no difference to me, I play my games however I like, with whoever I like.
Jeff Kaplan, once known as "Tigole" in Everquest, was a big raiding gamer back-when. He was brought in as lead developer fairly early last year or late the year before that. In a NYT interview, he intimated that raiding was the only form of gaming he felt should be rewarded in the game. (I think the interview got locked behind a subscription service, so you may have to dig around for the full copy.)
Some of his old EQ-era talk about non-raiders is pretty harsh; to say that he really does believe in the "raid or die" philosophy is an understatement.
For my money Raiding is additional end game material. It's there if you want to try it, but you are not forced to if you don't. There is plenty of other pursuits to do instead, like exploring and questing and PvP and battlegrounds and trading and crafting, like grinding for rare items, power leveling or whatever else it is you do when you do what you do. I spent half my time in WoW doing the engame. Raiding wasn't by any means an overwhelming part of that experience.
For my money Raiding is additional end game material. It's there if you want to try it, but you are not forced to if you don't. There is plenty of other pursuits to do instead, like exploring and questing and PvP and battlegrounds and trading and crafting, like grinding for rare items, power leveling or whatever else it is you do when you do what you do. I spent half my time in WoW doing the engame. Raiding wasn't by any means an overwhelming part of that experience.
For my money Raiding is additional end game material. It's there if you want to try it, but you are not forced to if you don't. There is plenty of other pursuits to do instead, like exploring and questing and PvP and battlegrounds and trading and crafting, like grinding for rare items, power leveling or whatever else it is you do when you do what you do. I spent half my time in WoW doing the engame. Raiding wasn't by any means an overwhelming part of that experience.
Better it's there than it's missing, that's what I say.
I agree, totally, but a lot of debate is over how much importance it should play vs. the other content. Raiding appears to be used as the only significant end-game advancement; even PVP and crafting in WOW at end-game are vastly inferior, save a few individual items, and consumables.
There should really be an official Tigole and Furor hate thread here,
They got hired by blizz to create content because they did alot of raids in EQ and had a good guild, Alot of in game items glorify them, according to what i've heard they were also in charge of creating the PvP honor system which as anyone would agree seems like they hate PvPr's, and their entire guild "fires of heaven" was allowed to transfer from a PvE server to a PvP just a couple months ago, Blizz swears they don't favour them, and thats laughable, according to the past and future server transfer rules "it would be clearly unfair for someone to transfer from a PvE to A PvP server".
Because they are now playing on a PvP server there may be hope for the future of PvP in WoW, but they've already proved themselves to be idiots, the idea that hard and rewarding solo content in an online game is impossible is rediculous, they clearly just like running a guild and having the power over who gets what, someone may be skilled but i don't like you so i won't invite you often and therefor you wont get such good gear as this guy that sends smileys to me often and types LoL whenever i try to be funny.
In my opinion it's them that messed WoW up the most, in some of the original press releases WoW was supposed to have a focus on solo content.
Edited because a certain guild is named "fires of heaven" not "flames of heaven"
I make a personal rule never discuss a game on the forums, until I have finsihed playing it.
Otherwise people will continually point out all the little holes and drawbacks that you otherwise would never notice or dwell upon until you can no longer ignore them and something you were enjoying becomes poison. Dissection phase comes afterwards, not during.
I don't care about kaplan or the dev's or someone or others guild. Who cares? It's not relevant to how I play my game.
PvP has it's own endgame advancements. Not just Raiding. Crafting has yet more. Raiding and PvP are understandably more popular. Raiding is probably the easiest form of endgame advancement, which is why it is so popular. Essentially everyone can just piggyback on the organisational skills of one uber guild leader, as opposed to having to put in the kind of personal achievement required to get High Warlord in the battlegrounds or mine enough dark iron to make dark iron plate.
Why do people playing wow even care what the posters here think ? They have eve listed as their top MMO. That alone should prove that the people who have opinions on this site don't share what " most" people think. If they did eve would be huge, not the dinky little population it has now.
Go play wow and stop trying to defend it to people who hate everything.
Maybe some of us are hard on WoW because we're sick and tired of people such as yourself rushing in to defend the game constantly with idiotic posts like "how can people not like wow it is the best game EVAR!".
Give it a freaking rest already. Some people don't like WoW. Get over it.
I think people are being way too hard on WoW. Im not by any means a wow fanbois but I hardly see any reason why Guild Wars has a higher rating than WoW. Seriously how the hell is that possible.
LOL. ur being a little to hard on GW. U no how its possible that its higher in the ratings. Its because it better! (DUH) Im not sayin WoW sucks im sayin GW is better then WoW. WoW is fun for a while once u get to lvl 60 its gets really boring. U gotta beat this quest an get this armour, it just boring. Its fun while it last
Whenever i step outside, somebody claims to see the light It seems to me that all of us have lost our patience. 'cause everyone thinks they're right, And nobody thinks that there just might Be more than one road to our final destination--
Dude just dont be givin crap about GW for a reason once u hit lvl 20 on GW there is alot more to do.....WoW i got a reason for being crap. Frsit i dont think its worth the cash, 15$ a month! And it takes forever to get to lvl 60 an once u get there *cough* nothin to do. Gw now it way better becuase u can take breaks from it an dont have to worry about playin the game because ur not playing (this next sentence has been in alot of my post on WoW an y it sucks). If u have WoW u feel like u have to play it for a few hrs, and when u dont want to play it u gotta cancle all the supspritions . Then if u want to play agian u have to pay again (even if awnt to play for only like 1 week)
Whenever i step outside, somebody claims to see the light It seems to me that all of us have lost our patience. 'cause everyone thinks they're right, And nobody thinks that there just might Be more than one road to our final destination--
Originally posted by rockin_ufo Dude just dont be givin crap about GW for a reason once u hit lvl 20 on GW there is alot more to do.....WoW i got a reason for being crap. Frsit i dont think its worth the cash, 15$ a month! And it takes forever to get to lvl 60 an once u get there *cough* nothin to do. Gw now it way better becuase u can take breaks from it an dont have to worry about playin the game because ur not playing (this next sentence has been in alot of my post on WoW an y it sucks). If u have WoW u feel like u have to play it for a few hrs, and when u dont want to play it u gotta cancle all the supspritions . Then if u want to play agian u have to pay again (even if awnt to play for only like 1 week)
what the heck are you yabbling about? there is even less to do at guild wars at lvl 20 then WoW at levels 60! and thats bad...really bad..."it takes forever to get to lvl 60" hahaha...
Originally posted by Gameloading Originally posted by rockin_ufo Dude just dont be givin crap about GW for a reason once u hit lvl 20 on GW there is alot more to do.....WoW i got a reason for being crap. Frsit i dont think its worth the cash, 15$ a month! And it takes forever to get to lvl 60 an once u get there *cough* nothin to do. Gw now it way better becuase u can take breaks from it an dont have to worry about playin the game because ur not playing (this next sentence has been in alot of my post on WoW an y it sucks). If u have WoW u feel like u have to play it for a few hrs, and when u dont want to play it u gotta cancle all the supspritions . Then if u want to play agian u have to pay again (even if awnt to play for only like 1 week)
what the heck are you yabbling about? there is even less to do at guild wars at lvl 20 then WoW at levels 60! and thats bad...really bad..."it takes forever to get to lvl 60" hahaha...
You obviously never played Guild Wars to level 20. Over half of the game doesn't even start till 20. And PVP opens up at 20. Guild Wars end game has tons of things to do. Hours of missions and quests available (if you like the PVE side) and a far more complex PVP side.
Oh.. and by the time WoW has 1 expansion out Guild Wars will have 2, possibly 3. They already have 1 (Factions).
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sig image Pending Still in: A couple Betas
Originally posted by Elnator Originally posted by Gameloading Originally posted by rockin_ufo Dude just dont be givin crap about GW for a reason once u hit lvl 20 on GW there is alot more to do.....WoW i got a reason for being crap. Frsit i dont think its worth the cash, 15$ a month! And it takes forever to get to lvl 60 an once u get there *cough* nothin to do. Gw now it way better becuase u can take breaks from it an dont have to worry about playin the game because ur not playing (this next sentence has been in alot of my post on WoW an y it sucks). If u have WoW u feel like u have to play it for a few hrs, and when u dont want to play it u gotta cancle all the supspritions . Then if u want to play agian u have to pay again (even if awnt to play for only like 1 week)
what the heck are you yabbling about? there is even less to do at guild wars at lvl 20 then WoW at levels 60! and thats bad...really bad..."it takes forever to get to lvl 60" hahaha...
You obviously never played Guild Wars to level 20. Over half of the game doesn't even start till 20. And PVP opens up at 20. Guild Wars end game has tons of things to do. Hours of missions and quests available (if you like the PVE side) and a far more complex PVP side.
Oh.. and by the time WoW has 1 expansion out Guild Wars will have 2, possibly 3. They already have 1 (Factions).
*sigh* I did play Guild Wars (in fact I still do) and I do have lvl 20's, and there isn't jack to do besides pointless things. not any more pointless then WoW, but still pointless.
I know many people that played it till they were bored of it-- and THEN IT SUCKED. But I dont know a single person that started playing and said...bleh this isnt for me.
I did that! My highest character was about lvl 27 i think! i could not stick with it at all! I can see why WoW was good for millions of people, with regards to Guild wars, PvP is much better, though i like the story driven focuse of GW, though it would of been better if all the other areas apart from story missions were not instanced!
Originally posted by damian7 Originally posted by Kyoruto Originally posted by Celestian Originally posted by KyorutoUmm, don't want to sound like an ass or anything, but raiding was prevolant since the pen and paper D&D. ^-^;; Sorry!
Really? I've played since AD&D1e and I never remember having to get 24-40-72 of my friends to help me slay a dragon. We took 4-8 people to slay the dragon, hardly what any MMO considers a raid.
The reason we have "raids" today is because MMO developers can't think of ways to challenge players that doesn't involve mobs with tons of hitpoints and massively hard hitting attacks.
Because I totally didn't use that as the referance to where raiding inutually started. I'm sorry you had to twist my words into something completely outa left feild.
um, what exactly did you say then? because the quote above from you is rather IN context. blue box d&d came out in the early 70s. no interweb or online games (not even bbs) back then. so um, what raiding EXACTLY dost thou reference? since it's NOT pnp d&d?
Well, seeing that was to someone else cause he wanted to be an ass an say like raiding consists of 40+ people in the old DnD standards. I only said they had raids in DnD. (I never played it, but have many friends who do and did back in the day) So what if it wasn't the magnatude of 40 people it was still considered a raid. Thats why I said raiding was prevolant in DnD. Nothing more nothing less. Maybe I should of added a few more sylibols to my sentences next time to dictate that even though something had raids it wasn't to an access of 40 people instead of just saying raiding was a concept here?
Siehst du mich Erkennst du mich Ganz tief in meinem Herz ist noch ein Platz f?r dich Ich suche dich Ich sehne mich nach dem was ich geliebt hab doch ich find es nicht
Originally posted by baff I make a personal rule never discuss a game on the forums, until I have finsihed playing it. Otherwise people will continually point out all the little holes and drawbacks that you otherwise would never notice or dwell upon until you can no longer ignore them and something you were enjoying becomes poison. Dissection phase comes afterwards, not during. I don't care about kaplan or the dev's or someone or others guild. Who cares? It's not relevant to how I play my game. PvP has it's own endgame advancements. Not just Raiding. Crafting has yet more. Raiding and PvP are understandably more popular. Raiding is probably the easiest form of endgame advancement, which is why it is so popular. Essentially everyone can just piggyback on the organisational skills of one uber guild leader, as opposed to having to put in the kind of personal achievement required to get High Warlord in the battlegrounds or mine enough dark iron to make dark iron plate.
So... Spending 4 months with deminishing honor points in AV or whatever BG is popular at the time is an achievement? (BTW having at least 4 people play your acount so you can be on 24/7 ) Dark Iron Plate is a PvE set. Its nice and all, but still the crafting is seriously lacking. If you want a profession that actually is helpingful alchemy is the only way to go; thats about as big end game crafting as possable.
Siehst du mich Erkennst du mich Ganz tief in meinem Herz ist noch ein Platz f?r dich Ich suche dich Ich sehne mich nach dem was ich geliebt hab doch ich find es nicht
The problem is that so many people want WoW to be something that it is not.
And I can easily see why certain players would be dissapointed in it because it really is doing a variety of quests, doing some grinding, meeting up with friends, perhaps a little bif of pvp.
But for players who are looking for PvP with more consequences or more of a reason to level up, this is going to be frustrating. Especially if they play a lot.
My main game is Lineage 2. Some people absolutely love it, some people absolutely hate it. Then there are the one's in between.
I'm one of those.
But I accept it for what it is until they make changes that will satisfy me even more or a game comes out that has more of what I want. But I don't expect Lineage 2 to be anything other than it is. Same with WoW. It is really more for casual gamers. Maybe even first time gamers. Or gamers who are a bit laid back with the whole MMO thing.
However, if one wants PvP or harder, longer leveling, you can easily find that in other games.
And it is important to note that they are coming up with an expansion. So the game will have more content. Now, it still might not fill the void for certain players but I don't see what the big deal is. Just find another game.
It's like saying a honda is a sucky car because it can't sustain high speeds and you can't do NASCAR with it. Or that a BMW sucks because it just won't handle hauling logs.
It is what it is. It is fun for some, not for others. It is not possible to satisfy everyone with one game unless they make drastic concessions and have completley different types of servers with comepletely different end games.
Go to any game forum and you will find that game's naysayers. What is gold for some is not for others.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Right... because "only" having a couple of million players is a "very small player base", and Guildwars if "free", don't you know. Oh wait, it's not free at all, it costs $50 just like any other game... and Guildwars: Factions has been on the best seller list for all major retailers non stop since it came out.
See, here's the reason that so many of us hate WoW: It's because so many of it's champions are ranting idiots.
Originally posted by Themistoles Originally posted by daveospice
What it comes down to is - Guild wars doesn't have monthly fees. WoW does. That makes a HUGE difference in how harsh people are on their ratings! You have to look at Guild Wars as if compaired to Dungeon Siege, not WoW since it doesn't have a monthly fee. If you compair to WoW it is simply better because it IS Comparable and yet doesn't have a monthly fee.
Plus, if you have a group of friends to play with... Guild wars just blows the snot out of WoW. The strategies and teamwork involved in guild wars is staggering, but it's only good if you use voice chat and have a great group of friends to play with.
Despite being free, GW has a very small player base in comparison to WoW . Such games do not enjoy mass appeal even when free. WoW has a players base larger than all the top mmorpgs combined and one has to ask why?
Simple, from 1 - 59 it allows people to be individuals in an explorabe world. To me, end-game is horrible and I believe it will be it's ultimate downfall if Blizz does not recognize it's failures.
Comments
WoW is a good game from 1 - 59, sadly at 60 it's all grinding and raiding. The expansion will tell us a lot about where Blizz is heading with this game. In this, I think it's WoW's playability in PvE from 1 - 59 that keeps it popular.
Until a company can come along and break from this cycle, WoW will dominate for some time to come.
What it comes down to is - Guild wars doesn't have monthly fees. WoW does. That makes a HUGE difference in how harsh people are on their ratings! You have to look at Guild Wars as if compaired to Dungeon Siege, not WoW since it doesn't have a monthly fee. If you compair to WoW it is simply better because it IS Comparable and yet doesn't have a monthly fee.
Plus, if you have a group of friends to play with... Guild wars just blows the snot out of WoW. The strategies and teamwork involved in guild wars is staggering, but it's only good if you use voice chat and have a great group of friends to play with.
Simple, from 1 - 59 it allows people to be individuals in an explorabe world. To me, end-game is horrible and I believe it will be it's ultimate downfall if Blizz does not recognize it's failures.
WoW's popularity is also why so many hate it.
Simple, really. Because Guild Wars is a lot more fun than WoW and fewer people that have reviewed it have been overly critical of it. Probably because it's free. Regardless of what anyone says being FREE means that people will overlook things that would otherwise annoy the hell out of them if they were paying a monthly fee to play the game. So whatever shortcomings Guildwars HAS are generally forgiven by most because.... it's free to play.
That's ok. I was bored out of my skull in WoW... WoW never appealed to me. Guild Wars, on the other hand, I found extremely fun, and still play it today. WoW I managed to suffer through a free trial for. And played on and off on a friend's account for a bit. But no way in hell would I have ever paid a monthly fee to play it. Note my above comments: Guildwars has some things that would normally drive me to distraction if I were paying to play the game. But since I am not and I can enjoy it whenever I want, wherever I want and it doesn't cost me any more than it's original purchase price (I got it for $30) those items just don't bother me as much. WoW has things I don't like about it as well (Graphics suck, lack of depth, etc) but since I have to pay $200 a year to play WoW and I pay nothing to play Guild Wars.... 3 guesses as to which one I like better
(Well... I'd like guildwars better anyway but I wouldn't pay to subscribe to it).
I don't hate the game. I just don't like it. Never did. Lack of depth... Cartoonish graphics. Low Poly graphics... simplistic quest system.... No death penalty at all.... etc.
The PVP is pathetic. There's no point to it at all. It's just there and the honor system is a joke. It offers absolutely nothing more than Guild Wars does. And Guild Wars PVP is much more complex and requires much more player skill and ability than WoW does. Personally I don't really PVP much in either. But even TRYING to compare WoW's PVP to DAOC's is just a crime. WoW's PVP in no way even comes close to the depth and complexity of DAOC. Sorry... WoW gets very low marks from me as a "pvp" environment. WoW's PVP is exactly what they made it to be: Simplistic. Also, WoW's PVP is very item affected. Powergamers will ALWAYS fare better in WoW than their opponents because those who have the time to raid raid raid to get the best gear in the game will have tremendous advantages over those who do not. Guild Wars is an even playing field. PowerGamers have no advantage over casual ones in PVP other than experience in PVP. In short: The player's ability to choose what to do and what skills to use etc will determine the outcome in Guild Wars... in WoW it's all about who has the best gear.
That's odd... I have a decent rig. At max settings I can play Guild Wars or WoW equally well. I've never experienced a moment of lag in Guild Wars even in large GvG fights. Gameplay is equally smooth in both. Matter of fact as long as we're comparing my system runs EQ2 just fine as well, though if I crank the settings way up it'll lag a bit. But it's still very playable. And DAOC runs circles around WoW... even on MAX settings.
1) Why do you care?
2) Why are you arguing?
The game is fine. But when you're charging me $15 a month to play I'm going to generally be a lot more critical of flaws, especially over a year after release, than I am for a game that is free to play. Sorry, that's just a fact. If you're charging me $15 a month to play you had better be far superior to the game I'm not paying anything to play. Lets compare the price points shall we:
When one is almost 5x more expensive to play.... is it any wonder people are more critical of it?
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
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take a sign, move on.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
take a sign, move on.
Oh its not true? so I can expect to see you whining about other games with the exact same problem as WoW soon?
WoW's popularity is also why so many hate it.
take a sign, move on.
Oh its not true? so I can expect to see you whining about other games with the exact same problem as WoW soon?
hi troll, i was wondering is this a thread i started? and is this thread in the wow forum?
no to both eh?
keep *stuff* about a game i find boring (for a myriad of reasons) out of my sight and i won't be commenting on it in the GENERAL forum.
maybe if you read threads other than JUST wow, you'd see that i do comment (and have from day 1) on other games that i wish devs would improve/change. take your sign and sit down with the other dipshit trolls.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
WoW's popularity is also why so many hate it.
take a sign, move on.
Oh its not true? so I can expect to see you whining about other games with the exact same problem as WoW soon?
hi troll, i was wondering is this a thread i started? and is this thread in the wow forum?
no to both eh?
keep *stuff* about a game i find boring (for a myriad of reasons) out of my sight and i won't be commenting on it in the GENERAL forum.
maybe if you read threads other than JUST wow, you'd see that i do comment (and have from day 1) on other games that i wish devs would improve/change. take your sign and sit down with the other dipshit trolls.
You spend 3/4th of your time on mmorpg.com in WoW topics telling everybody how much you hate the game. just admit it, you spend most of your time here to bash WoW. also, there is no reason to insult me, which you have done quite a few times now.
there you have it. that is all that was needed to say. you dont want to invent anything for yourself to do. you want everything given to you just like a movie. please, dont you dare to think for yourself.
that sentence quite explained the problem here. some people do not like to think while playing. they believe that games require skill when you need to move your mouse faster than the crappy AI can cope with.
other people like to think whlie playing, like open-endness, freedom, choices. they believe a game takes skill when the more intelligent you are, the better player you get at that game.
so, 2 choices:
1. IF YOU DONT LIKE THINKING, AND WANT EVERYTHING HANDED ON YOU, CAUSE YOUR ARE PAYING TO SAVE YOURSELF FROM THINKING ------->>> YOU WANT TO PLAY WORLD OF WARCRAFT
2. IF YOU LIKE TO THINK WHILE YOU ARE PLAYING, AND LIKE TO INVENT (OHHHHHHHHHHH, I SAID THE FORBIDEN WORD, INVENT) NEW THINGS AND NEW WAYS TO PLAY THE GAME, AND BEING ABLE TO DO THINGS NOBODY HAS DONE BEFORE ------>>>>> YOU DONT WANT TO PLAY WORLD OF WARCRAFT
i like to think that mmorpg.com has more people that would choose the second option, and it gets reflected on the ratings here.
but hey, we are the minority, at least 6 million gamers have decided that they didnt want to invent anything new or be required to think while they are just relaxing and playing a game
I don't mind thinking, it's paying that irks me.
I'm perfectly willing to invent things for myself, I still play tabletop Rpg's and write my own adventures, what I am unwilling to do is pay someone to invent things for myself. Unscripted computer games are just lazy. The programmers haven't done any work. We are all able to invent things for ourselves in any multiplayer game at any time. In fact, I can roleplay over MSN, I don't even need a computer game at all. A computer game does not require content to keep my attention, but it requires content to command extra fee's.
There are too many virtual worlds and game enviroments to explore to waste time and money flogging a dead horse. Once I have seen it and done it, I move on. This is the curse of the subscription game. Each month it must earn it's money. Each time I have to pay, I re-evaluate it's worth. Is it still providing me with an enormous amount of new experiences, or is it just a timesink.
Many gamers have a natural aversion to change. Despite having found their chosen game boring, they do not have the strength of mind to quit. Smokers are often the same. They want to stop but they do not have the courage. A lot of people find difficulty in bonding with new communities, once they have done so they are very reluctant to leave them. Although they will be able to find new friends in any online game the process of having to is a problem for them. It's like a sheep mentality. I'd rather spend £10 a month recycling the same old same old with the same old people than go and find something better to do. It's safe and I have my little routine. Just keep your head down and think about the grass you are eating. If the sheep around you move, move to. Don't be thinking I haven't played and enjoyed "player driven games", I'm just not still stuck in them haemoraging money for nothing I haven't seen before.
Raiding is by no means the only additional content added to WoW, there have been a plethora of seasonal events and even in game festivals. Each one opening new rewards and missions, providing temporary items and generally keeping the game "alive". There has also been new area's added and fleshed out. When I was lvl55-60 I was running out of quest content, the next day, the revamped Silithius, providing all the lvl 55-60 quest content I needed to level cap without excessive grinding. Really I couldn't have asked for more.
Jeff Kaplan, once known as "Tigole" in Everquest, was a big raiding gamer back-when. He was brought in as lead developer fairly early last year or late the year before that. In a NYT interview, he intimated that raiding was the only form of gaming he felt should be rewarded in the game. (I think the interview got locked behind a subscription service, so you may have to dig around for the full copy.)
Some of his old EQ-era talk about non-raiders is pretty harsh; to say that he really does believe in the "raid or die" philosophy is an understatement.
I agree, totally, but a lot of debate is over how much importance it should play vs. the other content. Raiding appears to be used as the only significant end-game advancement; even PVP and crafting in WOW at end-game are vastly inferior, save a few individual items, and consumables.
There should really be an official Tigole and Furor hate thread here,
They got hired by blizz to create content because they did alot of raids in EQ and had a good guild,
Alot of in game items glorify them, according to what i've heard they were also in charge of creating the PvP honor system which as anyone would agree seems like they hate PvPr's, and their entire guild "fires of heaven" was allowed to transfer from a PvE server to a PvP just a couple months ago, Blizz swears they don't favour them, and thats laughable, according to the past and future server transfer rules "it would be clearly unfair for someone to transfer from a PvE to A PvP server".
Because they are now playing on a PvP server there may be hope for the future of PvP in WoW, but they've already proved themselves to be idiots, the idea that hard and rewarding solo content in an online game is impossible is rediculous, they clearly just like running a guild and having the power over who gets what, someone may be skilled but i don't like you so i won't invite you often and therefor you wont get such good gear as this guy that sends smileys to me often and types LoL whenever i try to be funny.
In my opinion it's them that messed WoW up the most, in some of the original press releases WoW was supposed to have a focus on solo content.
Edited because a certain guild is named "fires of heaven" not "flames of heaven"
I make a personal rule never discuss a game on the forums, until I have finsihed playing it.
Otherwise people will continually point out all the little holes and drawbacks that you otherwise would never notice or dwell upon until you can no longer ignore them and something you were enjoying becomes poison. Dissection phase comes afterwards, not during.
I don't care about kaplan or the dev's or someone or others guild. Who cares? It's not relevant to how I play my game.
PvP has it's own endgame advancements. Not just Raiding. Crafting has yet more. Raiding and PvP are understandably more popular. Raiding is probably the easiest form of endgame advancement, which is why it is so popular. Essentially everyone can just piggyback on the organisational skills of one uber guild leader, as opposed to having to put in the kind of personal achievement required to get High Warlord in the battlegrounds or mine enough dark iron to make dark iron plate.
Go play wow and stop trying to defend it to people who hate everything.
Give it a freaking rest already. Some people don't like WoW. Get over it.
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Whenever i step outside, somebody claims to see the light
It seems to me that all of us have lost our patience.
'cause everyone thinks they're right,
And nobody thinks that there just might
Be more than one road to our final destination--
i d say WoW was pretty harsh on casual gamers and PvPers with the whole "raid or die" mentality at lvl 60.
Now that more and more casual gamers are actually hitting lvl 60 i guess they re just being "harsh back" lol.
Whenever i step outside, somebody claims to see the light
It seems to me that all of us have lost our patience.
'cause everyone thinks they're right,
And nobody thinks that there just might
Be more than one road to our final destination--
You obviously never played Guild Wars to level 20. Over half of the game doesn't even start till 20. And PVP opens up at 20. Guild Wars end game has tons of things to do. Hours of missions and quests available (if you like the PVE side) and a far more complex PVP side.
Oh.. and by the time WoW has 1 expansion out Guild Wars will have 2, possibly 3. They already have 1 (Factions).
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
You obviously never played Guild Wars to level 20. Over half of the game doesn't even start till 20. And PVP opens up at 20. Guild Wars end game has tons of things to do. Hours of missions and quests available (if you like the PVE side) and a far more complex PVP side.
Oh.. and by the time WoW has 1 expansion out Guild Wars will have 2, possibly 3. They already have 1 (Factions).
*sigh* I did play Guild Wars (in fact I still do) and I do have lvl 20's, and there isn't jack to do besides pointless things. not any more pointless then WoW, but still pointless.
The reason we have "raids" today is because MMO developers can't think of ways to challenge players that doesn't involve mobs with tons of hitpoints and massively hard hitting attacks.
Because I totally didn't use that as the referance to where raiding inutually started. I'm sorry you had to twist my words into something completely outa left feild.
um, what exactly did you say then? because the quote above from you is rather IN context. blue box d&d came out in the early 70s. no interweb or online games (not even bbs) back then. so um, what raiding EXACTLY dost thou reference? since it's NOT pnp d&d?
Well, seeing that was to someone else cause he wanted to be an ass an say like raiding consists of 40+ people in the old DnD standards. I only said they had raids in DnD. (I never played it, but have many friends who do and did back in the day) So what if it wasn't the magnatude of 40 people it was still considered a raid. Thats why I said raiding was prevolant in DnD. Nothing more nothing less. Maybe I should of added a few more sylibols to my sentences next time to dictate that even though something had raids it wasn't to an access of 40 people instead of just saying raiding was a concept here?
Siehst du mich
Erkennst du mich
Ganz tief in meinem Herz
ist noch ein Platz f?r dich
Ich suche dich
Ich sehne mich
nach dem was ich geliebt hab
doch ich find es nicht
Siehst du mich
Erkennst du mich
Ganz tief in meinem Herz
ist noch ein Platz f?r dich
Ich suche dich
Ich sehne mich
nach dem was ich geliebt hab
doch ich find es nicht
The problem is that so many people want WoW to be something that it is not.
And I can easily see why certain players would be dissapointed in it because it really is doing a variety of quests, doing some grinding, meeting up with friends, perhaps a little bif of pvp.
But for players who are looking for PvP with more consequences or more of a reason to level up, this is going to be frustrating. Especially if they play a lot.
My main game is Lineage 2. Some people absolutely love it, some people absolutely hate it. Then there are the one's in between.
I'm one of those.
But I accept it for what it is until they make changes that will satisfy me even more or a game comes out that has more of what I want. But I don't expect Lineage 2 to be anything other than it is. Same with WoW. It is really more for casual gamers. Maybe even first time gamers. Or gamers who are a bit laid back with the whole MMO thing.
However, if one wants PvP or harder, longer leveling, you can easily find that in other games.
And it is important to note that they are coming up with an expansion. So the game will have more content. Now, it still might not fill the void for certain players but I don't see what the big deal is. Just find another game.
It's like saying a honda is a sucky car because it can't sustain high speeds and you can't do NASCAR with it. Or that a BMW sucks because it just won't handle hauling logs.
It is what it is. It is fun for some, not for others. It is not possible to satisfy everyone with one game unless they make drastic concessions and have completley different types of servers with comepletely different end games.
Go to any game forum and you will find that game's naysayers. What is gold for some is not for others.
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Right... because "only" having a couple of million players is a "very small player base", and Guildwars if "free", don't you know. Oh wait, it's not free at all, it costs $50 just like any other game... and Guildwars: Factions has been on the best seller list for all major retailers non stop since it came out.
See, here's the reason that so many of us hate WoW: It's because so many of it's champions are ranting idiots. Despite being free, GW has a very small player base in comparison to WoW . Such games do not enjoy mass appeal even when free. WoW has a players base larger than all the top mmorpgs combined and one has to ask why?
Simple, from 1 - 59 it allows people to be individuals in an explorabe world. To me, end-game is horrible and I believe it will be it's ultimate downfall if Blizz does not recognize it's failures.
WoW's popularity is also why so many hate it.