All games have repetition. Some are diverse enough to hide that repetition behind many quests, alternative leveling, PvP, crafting, housing etc etc. But the only game that CAN provide ENDLESS NON-REPETATIVE style is called "REAL LIFE". But even there we are often forced to perform repetative tasks. Theres no escape from that.
Originally posted by Vengeful Some comedian said something along these lines... You know what. There should be bars in California where you can smoke. And if you don't want to be in a bar where people are smoking, don't go in there. Go to a bar that doesn't allow smoking. I don't like Bed, Bath, and Beyond. I don't like what goes ON in Bed, Bath, and Beyond. Does that mean that I picket Bed, Bath, and Beyond? No. Do you know what I do about it?...I DON'T GO THERE.
So why don't you take your own advice, since you and people like you are the only ones in this thread that it applies to? If you don't like open discussion about games, why come to an open forum about games then whine that people are discussing games but don't share your opinions? You could just go to the vanguard official forums which are probably moderated, or find a highly moderated fan site that only allows certain opinions. Instead of choosing to "DON'T GO" to a place where open discussion is allowed, you keep whining that people express viewpoints that differ from yours.
If that is something you can't handle, there is no reason for you to come marching into the Vanguard Community and try to do away with the raiding.
When, exactly, did I 'try to do away with the raiding'? How on earth would I even attempt to do that, since I don't have any influence over Sigil? All I did was discuss a game on a forum dedicated to discussion of that game.
Originally posted by Amnesiac07 If you took the statement of wanting all the best rewards for logging in as literal,
I didn't take it as literal. I took it as indicating that you in some way believed that I, or the other people who don't like raiding, don't want challenging gameplay, or want less challenging gameplay. Which, as I've already pointed out, is stupid on your part. Whining on that you're annoyed doesn't change the sheer stupidity of your statement.
Regardless of topic here the same people invariably bitch about the same aspects of this game they deem inferior; I see that as hijacking.
Thread hijacking is CHANGING the topic of a thread. If someome discusses raiding in Vanguard in a thread about raiding in vanguard, that is on-topic discussion, which is pretty much the direct opposite of thread hijacking. Thread hijacking is not 'expressing an opinion that amnesiac disagrees with'.
To keep it short and simple: if you don't like raiding under ANY circumstance or there is any other game design element that you just can't live with, don't play the game.
I don't get why you and Vengeful keep repeating this when I've already stated that I'm not going to be playing Vanguard, and certainly am not playing it now. You guys write paragraphs recommending that I don't do something I have already stated that I plan not to do. And somehow I'm the 'verbose' one?
Originally posted by Pantastic I don't get why you and Vengeful keep repeating this when I've already stated that I'm not going to be playing Vanguard, and certainly am not playing it now.
Ahh.. come on. Let him stay. He's fun to listen to. You just need to use your imagination a bit. I see him as like either Mr. Bean or Inspector Clouseau. You know, well intentioned; but just can't seem to get it quite right. I like him. I think we should let him stay. Plus, since the SOE deal has mostly blown over there aren't that many antagonists left on the forum.
Fogot to mention before, so I thought I would just ammend this post rather than create a new one. You gotta admit that Pantastic has that quote thingy down really well. Although I wouldn't mind seeing another color for the replys, but then that's just me.
Originally posted by Amnesiac07 Then stay off the forums...troll.
Why should I stay off of the forums? You're not a moderator, so you aren't allowed to make that call. Point me to a rule on this site that says you're not allowed to discuss a game if you're not playing it, and I'll gladly report every post on the vanguard forums for either breaking either that rule or the NDA. As the link says, "This forum is to discuss anything about Vanguard: Saga of Heroes. Please stay on this topic!" It does not say "This forum is to sing the praises of Vanguard. Please avoid saying anything negative about the game, even if you base it entirely on simple facts!"
And it's amusing that you follow the standard fanboy practice of using "troll" to mean "person who posted something I disagree with".
Ahh yes, by fanboy logic a TROLL is anyone who posts anything but positive comments on a game. Do you get paid for being a fanboy, or does it just feed something inside of you?
Originally posted by Pantastic Ahh yes, by fanboy logic a TROLL is anyone who posts anything but positive comments on a game. Do you get paid for being a fanboy, or does it just feed something inside of you?
Originally posted by Pantastic Ahh yes, by fanboy logic a TROLL is anyone who posts anything but positive comments on a game. Do you get paid for being a fanboy, or does it just feed something inside of you?
No, a troll is someone posting with no other objective than causing trouble. Since you have already stated you have no interest in the game whatsoever, the only other purpose of your posts is to cause a disruption. Face it, you are nothing but a forum troll.
Originally posted by n2sooners Originally posted by Pantastic Ahh yes, by fanboy logic a TROLL is anyone who posts anything but positive comments on a game. Do you get paid for being a fanboy, or does it just feed something inside of you?
No, a troll is someone posting with no other objective than causing trouble. Since you have already stated you have no interest in the game whatsoever, the only other purpose of your posts is to cause a disruption. Face it, you are nothing but a forum troll.
Someone could have the interest to underline some aspect of a game, because the devs lie and they want to pinpoint the lies. Just like Brad saying Vanguard is a grouping game, it is a lie, the best grouping tools are earned in raiding, thereby it is a poor grouping experience.
Personnally I am sooooo very close to switch side and be an adamant defend of Vanguard....yet soooo far. See, Brad is praising the specific server rules! But somehow, he can't come to terms with a non-raiding/non-tradeskill/non-PvP server awarding all the best loot of the game in a LDoN ways, only on such a specific server. Would the raiders stop playing on raiding servers? If so, they should not be raiding to start with! What happen on another server doesn't matter, as long as every server has the same tools to be earned in a "fair" way. I never saw a Killer-player stop playing on a PvP server because PvE servers got the loot much easier in their point of view, why would raiders leave a raiding server for a grouping server if they are raiders to start with?
Am I a troll for dreaming? Am I a troll for saying out loud that Brad is lying and Vanguard is a very poor grouping game, simply because the best grouping tools aren't earn in a group? If you think this is a troll, than I have saw Draco-trolls in this thread!
Pantastic is an extremely kind person as far as I can tell, we don't agree on many points and aspects. Always fun to debate with him/her. Can't say the same with peoples telling Pan is a troll. Pan is caring, where I don't care anymore and hardly talk. Someone who care is a troll? That would be innovation to call a caretaker a troll!
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Originally posted by n2sooners No, a troll is someone posting with no other objective than causing trouble. Since you have already stated you have no interest in the game whatsoever, the only other purpose of your posts is to cause a disruption. Face it, you are nothing but a forum troll.
Ahh, more brilliant fanboy logic. You guys are so funny; apparently you believe that posting simple facts about a game on a forum devoted to discussing a game indicates that someone has 'no other objective than causing trouble' if they don't like the game. My main objective is to engage in good discussion (not much of it here, just people ranting and declaring that random stuff is logically true), and my secondary objective is to educate people about what the game will actually be. I do want to disrupt attempts to rip people off by forming a false picture of what this game will entail, which is why you get so offended. Is the purpose of your posts to spread lies about this game n2sooners? That's the only way I'd be 'disrupting' them.
The best part is that you guys keep this thread alive, thus reminding people that Vanguard is just another raiding game (at lease as I use the term). People will be sure to know that: "Will you spend most of your time raiding in Vanguard's end game? Not according to anything they've publsihed, so if that's good for you then Vanguard should be fine. But if you don't want to raid at all and don't want to deal with raid guilds, but also don't want to be second-rate at the group content, then you should look for another game." OMG WHAT A TROLLING STATEMENT! HE OPENED THE THREAD SAYING SOMETHING THE FANBOYS KEEP SAYING TO HIM LIKE IT'S A RELEVATION!
Hey Amnesiac, afanboysaystroll? THAT IS SO CRAFTY!
Originally posted by Anofalye Someone could have the interest to underline some aspect of a game, because the devs lie and they want to pinpoint the lies. Just like Brad saying Vanguard is a grouping game, it is a lie, the best grouping tools are earned in raiding, thereby it is a poor grouping experience.
Humorously, I brought that point up and the fanboy crowd responded by declaring that it's only logical that the best grouping tools be earned not by grouping. They didn't actually provide any kind of logical argument and started patting each other on the back to say how logical they were being, of course.
But somehow, he can't come to terms with a non-raiding/non-tradeskill/non-PvP server awarding all the best loot of the game in a LDoN ways, only on such a specific server. Would the raiders stop playing on raiding servers? If so, they should not be raiding to start with!
It's very interesting that Vengeful, who left the thread but was being cheered on for his 'logic' by several people currently declaring that I'm a troll, said "So then....why would those raiders even bother raiding if the rewards they got were obtainable through soloing? It would lose it's luster." That's the problem with catering to the raiding crowd; they don't actually enjoy raiding, just having better rewards than non-raiders. And that's why Sigil doesn't want to make servers like that; it's not so much that raiders would stop raiding, but that non-raiders would play on the servers with no raiding, and raiders wouldn't have the 'luster' of lording their phat lootz over other people.
Pantastic is an extremely kind person as far as I can tell, we don't agree on many points and aspects. Always fun to debate with him/her.
I can't recall us actually getting into a debate on much of anything, but thanks.
It's very interesting that Vengeful, who left the thread but was being cheered on for his 'logic' by several people currently declaring that I'm a troll, said "So then....why would those raiders even bother raiding if the rewards they got were obtainable through soloing? It would lose it's luster." That's the problem with catering to the raiding crowd; they don't actually enjoy raiding, just having better rewards than non-raiders. And that's why Sigil doesn't want to make servers like that; it's not so much that raiders would stop raiding, but that non-raiders would play on the servers with no raiding, and raiders wouldn't have the 'luster' of lording their phat lootz over other people.
This is overgeneralization. Its like saying all Jews are good with money or all Arabs are terrorists or all Russians are alcoholics. Personally, I enjoyed raiding even in EQ (im a very casual person so raiding was not something I could usualy afford) , even though I almost never got any phat lewt. But I enjoyed it for the social factor too. Another thing with your logic (highlighted in yellow) - in order for that logic to be true, soloers would have to have EQUAL chances of obtaining raid quality items. A good example of this is found in WoW - where even soloable monsters CAN drop purple items, but the chances are so low that you can play for MONTHS of farming and not see one drop. Its a way to passively promote raiding, yeah you CAN get uber item by soloing, but see how u farmed for a week and u didnt get that? Wouldnt u rather raid for it and get much better chances of getting that drop?
In summary, raiding is NOT just to get items. Its a social endevour, group/guild efford to pass a certain "milestone" of things you and your buddies can do. I hope Sigil will go far away from the standard raiding concept you have in mind.
Originally posted by Pantastic Hey Amnesiac, afanboysaystroll? THAT IS SO CRAFTY!
No, no, no, no, no! That is not how the joke works! See, I say "atrollsayswhat?" and then you say "what?" You know, since you're a troll and all? Then we all have a good laugh at you.
Oh well I guess all of us on this forum will just have to get our laughs from reading your pompus-ass posts as you attempt to further inlfate your ego. Fair enough, that works too.
Originally posted by Pantastic Hey Amnesiac, afanboysaystroll? THAT IS SO CRAFTY!
Originally posted by Amnesiac07 ... troll..
Yep, definately a fanboy. See, I say "afanboysaystroll?" and then you say "troll?" You know, since you're a fanboy and all? Then we all have a good laugh at you. OMG THIS IS THE MOST CLEVER CONVERSATION EVER!
Isn't it fascinating how people like Amnesiac neglect to actually provide any actual arguments or information? He just keeps whining that it's unfair that I responded to what he said, and now just calls names.
Originally posted by jimmyman99 This is overgeneralization. Its like saying all Jews are good with money or all Arabs are terrorists or all Russians are alcoholics.
Another thing about raiders is their absurdly inflated sense of self-importance. Making a mildlyl overgeneralized statement about raiders is all of a sudden akin to antisemitism or racism in the eyes of jimmyman99. Get over yourself and your precious purple pixels.
Another thing with your logic (highlighted in yellow) - in order for that logic to be true, soloers would have to have EQUAL chances of obtaining raid quality items
A major problem with your logic is that you neglected to read the post you were responding to. The 'servers like that' that I was referring to were, in Anofalye's words, "non-raiding/non-tradeskill/non-PvP server awarding all the best loot of the game in a LDoN ways, only on such a specific server." I directly quoted her(?) saying that just above the material of mine that you just quoted, so it's not something snuck in from way back.
Further, you seem to have the same raid-induced brain damage that your bretheren all get, where you can't distinguish "non-raider" and "soloer". The only mention of soloing was where I quoted vengeful; if you pay attention to my wording I said non-raider. It's especially bizzare to keep seeing this on a thread about Vanguard, since vanguard is supposed to have about 20% solo content, 20% raid content, and 60% content that is neither. Please bear in mind what's suppsoed to make up 60% of the game this board is about next time you start to use 'soloer' as a synonym for 'non-raider'.
A good example of this is found in WoW - where even soloable monsters CAN drop purple items, but the chances are so low that you can play for MONTHS of farming and not see one drop. Its a way to passively promote raiding, yeah you CAN get uber item by soloing, but see how u farmed for a week and u didnt get that?
There are no world drops in WOW that are remotely comprable to raid items; they're both purples, sure, but the world drop items have ilevels significantly below 60, while just molten core epics have ilevels running from the mid60s to mid 70s and high end raid gear has broken ilevel 90 IIRC. Seirously, learn how WOW items work before using them in an example. A character with his pick of any world drops will be singificantly behind a character geared only from MC items, much less one with up-to-date raid gear. I'm not going to spend hours comparing gearsets, but I'm pretty sure that for most class/builds you'd be hard-pressed to just surpass the 'up to UBRS' dungeon drops with your pick of world drop gear. I know that between my rogue and druid, there was only one world drop epic that I even wanted for my level 60 gear, and that one was only a marginal upgrade over an easily obtained blue (warden staff vs unyielding maul).
Its a social endevour, group/guild efford to pass a certain "milestone" of things you and your buddies can do.
This is grossly incorrect; if raid guilds were actually composed of "buddies", they wouldn't need complex accounting systems to distribute video game loot. If the people you hang out with can't allocate video game prizes without a DKP system, they're not actually your friends. Actual friends can distribute toy prizes amongst themselves without drama, raid guilds can't unless they use complex accounting system, and even then there's generally a thread or two on the wow raid and dungeon board with someome whining about someome else getting an item.
Originally posted by Amnesiac07 Originally posted by Pantastic
Another thing about raiders is their absurdly inflated sense of self-importance.
Lol coming from a wind-bag like you this was too precious not to quote. Hello Mr. Pot? Yeah it's Mr. Kettle, he's calling you... Ya, he is quite the hypocrite. Such as the way he says the Vanguard "fanbois" say anyone who disagrees with them are trolls, but he calls anyone who disagrees with him a "Vanboi" (or some other term meant as an insult). He doesn't realize that it doesn't matter what forum he goes to, if he has no interest in that topic and is just there to stir up crap then he is a troll.
So what n2sooners and Amnesiac are really saying is that I'm completely right, and they can't argue with any of the facts or arguments that I've made, and just want to go in a fanboy back-patting spree and tell each other how terrible I am and how good they are. You can tell how smart they actually are, given that they both regard posting reasoned arguments and simple facts to show an inflated sense of self-importance; in their eyes what you should be doing is posting that non-raiders don't want a challenge.
N2sooners' post is an especially interesting piece of work; I haven't called anyone a "Vanboi" at all I haven't even used the term, not sure why he brought it into the discussion. Even if he is thinking of fanboy, I haven't called everyone who disagrees with me a fanboy, just the people displaying fanboy symptoms - like his and Amnesiac's back-patting, insults, troll accusations, and complete lack of any sensible comments. And for some reason he thinks I have no interest in the topic of this board when I clearly do, it's probably that he's not bright enough to understand that someome can be interested in discussing a game they're not likely to ever play.
Keep bumping the thread that explains that vanguard will be just another raid-or-be-second-rate game boys!
Originally posted by Pantastic So what n2sooners and Amnesiac are really saying is that I'm completely right, and they can't argue with any of the facts or arguments that I've made
Actually what I'm saying is you're someone who just likes to read his own typed words and isn't worth debating. You're not as smart as you think you are. You aren't posting simple facts, you're posting YOUR OPINIONS, just like everyone else.
Vanguard has caught my interest. Maybe it's because of game concepts, or just something arbitrary. Or maybe it's because a self-aggrandazing jackass like you doesn't like it. That to me is the best endorsement a game can get.
I plan on playing Vanguard, and I plan on it being a good game for my tastes. That's not fact that's just my opinion. Hell maybe I won't even want to play and mmo in 6-9 months or whenever it comes out. But that's my plan and no garbage you type will change it.
If you want to give us more preachy posts for us all to laugh at crowing about how enlightened you are about what makes a game better than another go right ahead. The facts remains you are the true definition of a forum TROLL, whether you want to admit it or not. You're posts wont sway anyone's opinion on this game for better or for worse. Your just blowing smoke out of your ass.
At first I though Pantastic just had a different opinion, but now I see he believes his opinion is the only true opinion, and the rest of the world has brain damage becuase we dare thing otherwise. Do not respond to his posts, becuase when you speak to an idiot, you have to lower your intelligence to his level before he understands your words. Haveing a discussion is great when both sides present legit arguments, not when the other says "Oh lookey, you dont think the way i am, your stupid.. duuuuh". Thats a mentality of a 10 year old. My advice Pantastic, grow up first, post on forums later. /ignore
I am curious of one thing though. For a person that hates raiding so much Pantastic seems to spend a lot of time doing just that. Why would a person spend so much time doing something they hate? I just don't understand that definition of fun. That is why I play games --- to have fun.
I could care less if I have the best loot in the game, or if my character reaches max level. It's about the journey and the friends you meet along the way. Everything else is second place.
Just an F.Y.I. --- There are plenty of guilds in EQ, EQ2, WoW, or just about any MMO really; that don't have all the "complex accounting systems" for distributing loot. They just like to get together and have fun. Do they care about being the "best" on the server? Nope. Are they having fun? You better believe it!
Originally posted by jimmyman99 At first I though Pantastic just had a different opinion, but now I see he believes his opinion is the only true opinion, and the rest of the world has brain damage becuase we dare thing otherwise. Do not respond to his posts, becuase when you speak to an idiot, you have to lower your intelligence to his level before he understands your words. Haveing a discussion is great when both sides present legit arguments, not when the other says "Oh lookey, you dont think the way i am, your stupid.. duuuuh". Thats a mentality of a 10 year old. My advice Pantastic, grow up first, post on forums later. /ignore
Nah. Pantastic has more than an opinion. An opinion is when your personal tastes are the only concern. However raiding is far more than just taste, it is a very bitter ending and it bruised many persons. Saying that raiding, ala Vision(tm) is wrong is FAR more than an opinion.
And the peoples insulting, been harsh, been rude, are the same persons that enjoy abusing this raiding unfairness, that reward the unworthy at the expense of the worthy. The same peoples I see join Uberguild, sit on their *censured* until the uberguild died out of uneffectiveness while hoarding loot for them, all while complaining, bitching, moaning, been rude against the raid leaders who where making the guild progress. At least these very persons in this thread can congratulate themselves, by destroying these uberguilds they remove a lot of tension between me and these guilds and they help TR a LOT on the Legends server, with efficient and skilled members.
But believe what you want. I just wish you to guild the very peoples I am talking about, that would be quite an experience for you, an enlightening experience about raiding unefficiency. See, many raiders have my respect, even if we are at odds. Those who make raids work, progress, advances. But here, the raiders I see arguing...
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Comments
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
So why don't you take your own advice, since you and people like you are the only ones in this thread that it applies to? If you don't like open discussion about games, why come to an open forum about games then whine that people are discussing games but don't share your opinions? You could just go to the vanguard official forums which are probably moderated, or find a highly moderated fan site that only allows certain opinions. Instead of choosing to "DON'T GO" to a place where open discussion is allowed, you keep whining that people express viewpoints that differ from yours.
When, exactly, did I 'try to do away with the raiding'? How on earth would I even attempt to do that, since I don't have any influence over Sigil? All I did was discuss a game on a forum dedicated to discussion of that game.
I didn't take it as literal. I took it as indicating that you in some way believed that I, or the other people who don't like raiding, don't want challenging gameplay, or want less challenging gameplay. Which, as I've already pointed out, is stupid on your part. Whining on that you're annoyed doesn't change the sheer stupidity of your statement.
Thread hijacking is CHANGING the topic of a thread. If someome discusses raiding in Vanguard in a thread about raiding in vanguard, that is on-topic discussion, which is pretty much the direct opposite of thread hijacking. Thread hijacking is not 'expressing an opinion that amnesiac disagrees with'.
I don't get why you and Vengeful keep repeating this when I've already stated that I'm not going to be playing Vanguard, and certainly am not playing it now. You guys write paragraphs recommending that I don't do something I have already stated that I plan not to do. And somehow I'm the 'verbose' one?
Then stay off the forums...troll.
Ahh.. come on. Let him stay. He's fun to listen to. You just need to use your imagination a bit. I see him as like either Mr. Bean or Inspector Clouseau. You know, well intentioned; but just can't seem to get it quite right. I like him. I think we should let him stay. Plus, since the SOE deal has mostly blown over there aren't that many antagonists left on the forum.
Fogot to mention before, so I thought I would just ammend this post rather than create a new one. You gotta admit that Pantastic has that quote thingy down really well. Although I wouldn't mind seeing another color for the replys, but then that's just me.
Why should I stay off of the forums? You're not a moderator, so you aren't allowed to make that call. Point me to a rule on this site that says you're not allowed to discuss a game if you're not playing it, and I'll gladly report every post on the vanguard forums for either breaking either that rule or the NDA. As the link says, "This forum is to discuss anything about Vanguard: Saga of Heroes. Please stay on this topic!" It does not say "This forum is to sing the praises of Vanguard. Please avoid saying anything negative about the game, even if you base it entirely on simple facts!"
And it's amusing that you follow the standard fanboy practice of using "troll" to mean "person who posted something I disagree with".
Ahh yes, by fanboy logic a TROLL is anyone who posts anything but positive comments on a game. Do you get paid for being a fanboy, or does it just feed something inside of you?
LDoN style...
Oh wait...They left EQ before LDoN and never try it.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Someone could have the interest to underline some aspect of a game, because the devs lie and they want to pinpoint the lies. Just like Brad saying Vanguard is a grouping game, it is a lie, the best grouping tools are earned in raiding, thereby it is a poor grouping experience.
Personnally I am sooooo very close to switch side and be an adamant defend of Vanguard....yet soooo far. See, Brad is praising the specific server rules! But somehow, he can't come to terms with a non-raiding/non-tradeskill/non-PvP server awarding all the best loot of the game in a LDoN ways, only on such a specific server. Would the raiders stop playing on raiding servers? If so, they should not be raiding to start with! What happen on another server doesn't matter, as long as every server has the same tools to be earned in a "fair" way. I never saw a Killer-player stop playing on a PvP server because PvE servers got the loot much easier in their point of view, why would raiders leave a raiding server for a grouping server if they are raiders to start with?
Am I a troll for dreaming? Am I a troll for saying out loud that Brad is lying and Vanguard is a very poor grouping game, simply because the best grouping tools aren't earn in a group? If you think this is a troll, than I have saw Draco-trolls in this thread!
Pantastic is an extremely kind person as far as I can tell, we don't agree on many points and aspects. Always fun to debate with him/her. Can't say the same with peoples telling Pan is a troll. Pan is caring, where I don't care anymore and hardly talk. Someone who care is a troll? That would be innovation to call a caretaker a troll!
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Ahh, more brilliant fanboy logic. You guys are so funny; apparently you believe that posting simple facts about a game on a forum devoted to discussing a game indicates that someone has 'no other objective than causing trouble' if they don't like the game. My main objective is to engage in good discussion (not much of it here, just people ranting and declaring that random stuff is logically true), and my secondary objective is to educate people about what the game will actually be. I do want to disrupt attempts to rip people off by forming a false picture of what this game will entail, which is why you get so offended. Is the purpose of your posts to spread lies about this game n2sooners? That's the only way I'd be 'disrupting' them.
The best part is that you guys keep this thread alive, thus reminding people that Vanguard is just another raiding game (at lease as I use the term). People will be sure to know that: "Will you spend most of your time raiding in Vanguard's end game? Not according to anything they've publsihed, so if that's good for you then Vanguard should be fine. But if you don't want to raid at all and don't want to deal with raid guilds, but also don't want to be second-rate at the group content, then you should look for another game." OMG WHAT A TROLLING STATEMENT! HE OPENED THE THREAD SAYING SOMETHING THE FANBOYS KEEP SAYING TO HIM LIKE IT'S A RELEVATION!
Hey Amnesiac, afanboysaystroll? THAT IS SO CRAFTY!
Humorously, I brought that point up and the fanboy crowd responded by declaring that it's only logical that the best grouping tools be earned not by grouping. They didn't actually provide any kind of logical argument and started patting each other on the back to say how logical they were being, of course.
It's very interesting that Vengeful, who left the thread but was being cheered on for his 'logic' by several people currently declaring that I'm a troll, said "So then....why would those raiders even bother raiding if the rewards they got were obtainable through soloing? It would lose it's luster." That's the problem with catering to the raiding crowd; they don't actually enjoy raiding, just having better rewards than non-raiders. And that's why Sigil doesn't want to make servers like that; it's not so much that raiders would stop raiding, but that non-raiders would play on the servers with no raiding, and raiders wouldn't have the 'luster' of lording their phat lootz over other people.
I can't recall us actually getting into a debate on much of anything, but thanks.
It's very interesting that Vengeful, who left the thread but was being cheered on for his 'logic' by several people currently declaring that I'm a troll, said "So then....why would those raiders even bother raiding if the rewards they got were obtainable through soloing? It would lose it's luster." That's the problem with catering to the raiding crowd; they don't actually enjoy raiding, just having better rewards than non-raiders. And that's why Sigil doesn't want to make servers like that; it's not so much that raiders would stop raiding, but that non-raiders would play on the servers with no raiding, and raiders wouldn't have the 'luster' of lording their phat lootz over other people.
This is overgeneralization. Its like saying all Jews are good with money or all Arabs are terrorists or all Russians are alcoholics. Personally, I enjoyed raiding even in EQ (im a very casual person so raiding was not something I could usualy afford) , even though I almost never got any phat lewt. But I enjoyed it for the social factor too. Another thing with your logic (highlighted in yellow) - in order for that logic to be true, soloers would have to have EQUAL chances of obtaining raid quality items. A good example of this is found in WoW - where even soloable monsters CAN drop purple items, but the chances are so low that you can play for MONTHS of farming and not see one drop. Its a way to passively promote raiding, yeah you CAN get uber item by soloing, but see how u farmed for a week and u didnt get that? Wouldnt u rather raid for it and get much better chances of getting that drop?In summary, raiding is NOT just to get items. Its a social endevour, group/guild efford to pass a certain "milestone" of things you and your buddies can do. I hope Sigil will go far away from the standard raiding concept you have in mind.
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
No, no, no, no, no! That is not how the joke works! See, I say "atrollsayswhat?" and then you say "what?" You know, since you're a troll and all? Then we all have a good laugh at you.
Oh well I guess all of us on this forum will just have to get our laughs from reading your pompus-ass posts as you attempt to further inlfate your ego. Fair enough, that works too.
Yep, definately a fanboy. See, I say "afanboysaystroll?" and then you say "troll?" You know, since you're a fanboy and all? Then we all have a good laugh at you. OMG THIS IS THE MOST CLEVER CONVERSATION EVER!
Isn't it fascinating how people like Amnesiac neglect to actually provide any actual arguments or information? He just keeps whining that it's unfair that I responded to what he said, and now just calls names.
Another thing about raiders is their absurdly inflated sense of self-importance. Making a mildlyl overgeneralized statement about raiders is all of a sudden akin to antisemitism or racism in the eyes of jimmyman99. Get over yourself and your precious purple pixels.
A major problem with your logic is that you neglected to read the post you were responding to. The 'servers like that' that I was referring to were, in Anofalye's words, "non-raiding/non-tradeskill/non-PvP server awarding all the best loot of the game in a LDoN ways, only on such a specific server." I directly quoted her(?) saying that just above the material of mine that you just quoted, so it's not something snuck in from way back.
Further, you seem to have the same raid-induced brain damage that your bretheren all get, where you can't distinguish "non-raider" and "soloer". The only mention of soloing was where I quoted vengeful; if you pay attention to my wording I said non-raider. It's especially bizzare to keep seeing this on a thread about Vanguard, since vanguard is supposed to have about 20% solo content, 20% raid content, and 60% content that is neither. Please bear in mind what's suppsoed to make up 60% of the game this board is about next time you start to use 'soloer' as a synonym for 'non-raider'.
There are no world drops in WOW that are remotely comprable to raid items; they're both purples, sure, but the world drop items have ilevels significantly below 60, while just molten core epics have ilevels running from the mid60s to mid 70s and high end raid gear has broken ilevel 90 IIRC. Seirously, learn how WOW items work before using them in an example. A character with his pick of any world drops will be singificantly behind a character geared only from MC items, much less one with up-to-date raid gear. I'm not going to spend hours comparing gearsets, but I'm pretty sure that for most class/builds you'd be hard-pressed to just surpass the 'up to UBRS' dungeon drops with your pick of world drop gear. I know that between my rogue and druid, there was only one world drop epic that I even wanted for my level 60 gear, and that one was only a marginal upgrade over an easily obtained blue (warden staff vs unyielding maul).
This is grossly incorrect; if raid guilds were actually composed of "buddies", they wouldn't need complex accounting systems to distribute video game loot. If the people you hang out with can't allocate video game prizes without a DKP system, they're not actually your friends. Actual friends can distribute toy prizes amongst themselves without drama, raid guilds can't unless they use complex accounting system, and even then there's generally a thread or two on the wow raid and dungeon board with someome whining about someome else getting an item.
Ya, he is quite the hypocrite. Such as the way he says the Vanguard "fanbois" say anyone who disagrees with them are trolls, but he calls anyone who disagrees with him a "Vanboi" (or some other term meant as an insult). He doesn't realize that it doesn't matter what forum he goes to, if he has no interest in that topic and is just there to stir up crap then he is a troll.
So what n2sooners and Amnesiac are really saying is that I'm completely right, and they can't argue with any of the facts or arguments that I've made, and just want to go in a fanboy back-patting spree and tell each other how terrible I am and how good they are. You can tell how smart they actually are, given that they both regard posting reasoned arguments and simple facts to show an inflated sense of self-importance; in their eyes what you should be doing is posting that non-raiders don't want a challenge.
N2sooners' post is an especially interesting piece of work; I haven't called anyone a "Vanboi" at all I haven't even used the term, not sure why he brought it into the discussion. Even if he is thinking of fanboy, I haven't called everyone who disagrees with me a fanboy, just the people displaying fanboy symptoms - like his and Amnesiac's back-patting, insults, troll accusations, and complete lack of any sensible comments. And for some reason he thinks I have no interest in the topic of this board when I clearly do, it's probably that he's not bright enough to understand that someome can be interested in discussing a game they're not likely to ever play.
Keep bumping the thread that explains that vanguard will be just another raid-or-be-second-rate game boys!
Actually what I'm saying is you're someone who just likes to read his own typed words and isn't worth debating. You're not as smart as you think you are. You aren't posting simple facts, you're posting YOUR OPINIONS, just like everyone else.
Vanguard has caught my interest. Maybe it's because of game concepts, or just something arbitrary. Or maybe it's because a self-aggrandazing jackass like you doesn't like it. That to me is the best endorsement a game can get.
I plan on playing Vanguard, and I plan on it being a good game for my tastes. That's not fact that's just my opinion. Hell maybe I won't even want to play and mmo in 6-9 months or whenever it comes out. But that's my plan and no garbage you type will change it.
If you want to give us more preachy posts for us all to laugh at crowing about how enlightened you are about what makes a game better than another go right ahead. The facts remains you are the true definition of a forum TROLL, whether you want to admit it or not. You're posts wont sway anyone's opinion on this game for better or for worse. Your just blowing smoke out of your ass.
At first I though Pantastic just had a different opinion, but now I see he believes his opinion is the only true opinion, and the rest of the world has brain damage becuase we dare thing otherwise. Do not respond to his posts, becuase when you speak to an idiot, you have to lower your intelligence to his level before he understands your words. Haveing a discussion is great when both sides present legit arguments, not when the other says "Oh lookey, you dont think the way i am, your stupid.. duuuuh". Thats a mentality of a 10 year old. My advice Pantastic, grow up first, post on forums later.
/ignore
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
I am curious of one thing though. For a person that hates raiding so much Pantastic seems to spend a lot of time doing just that. Why would a person spend so much time doing something they hate? I just don't understand that definition of fun. That is why I play games --- to have fun.
I could care less if I have the best loot in the game, or if my character reaches max level. It's about the journey and the friends you meet along the way. Everything else is second place.
Just an F.Y.I. --- There are plenty of guilds in EQ, EQ2, WoW, or just about any MMO really; that don't have all the "complex accounting systems" for distributing loot. They just like to get together and have fun. Do they care about being the "best" on the server? Nope. Are they having fun? You better believe it!
Nah. Pantastic has more than an opinion. An opinion is when your personal tastes are the only concern. However raiding is far more than just taste, it is a very bitter ending and it bruised many persons. Saying that raiding, ala Vision(tm) is wrong is FAR more than an opinion.
And the peoples insulting, been harsh, been rude, are the same persons that enjoy abusing this raiding unfairness, that reward the unworthy at the expense of the worthy. The same peoples I see join Uberguild, sit on their *censured* until the uberguild died out of uneffectiveness while hoarding loot for them, all while complaining, bitching, moaning, been rude against the raid leaders who where making the guild progress. At least these very persons in this thread can congratulate themselves, by destroying these uberguilds they remove a lot of tension between me and these guilds and they help TR a LOT on the Legends server, with efficient and skilled members.
But believe what you want. I just wish you to guild the very peoples I am talking about, that would be quite an experience for you, an enlightening experience about raiding unefficiency. See, many raiders have my respect, even if we are at odds. Those who make raids work, progress, advances. But here, the raiders I see arguing...
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren