Originally posted by Hohbein If people wish to 'roleplay' a gay character, then fair enough I suppose, although they have to expect to be flamed quite horrendously for doing so. Having a 'gay' button to customize your character when you start is rediculous, you'd have to then add a 'disabled' button etc etc.
I'm not saying that being gay is a disability, I'm saying that it's something people are born with and cannot help, but theres really no need to incorperate it into online gaming.
I was being sarcastic about the gay pride button. And sleepyguy, if they were to add in emotes of some sort, that were not offensive to the gay community, then that would be fine I guess. I was just trying to make a point that it would be pretty ridiculous to try and create a gay character in a MMO based on looks or whatever. The only way I would support a game though that did take the time to try and add in such emotes, would be if they had built a helluva game already. Worked out all the bugs, had it running smoothly with stable servers and all. Had built in tons of in depth quests, tasks, meaningful content through all levels. If they were truely able to pull all that off, who cares if they take a few days to make some silly emotes.
Today's MMOs have nothing to do with sex, sexuality or sexual preference. What are you considering? Allowing male avatars to dress in female clothing or vice-versa? That's transvestism, not homosexuality. Not every female gamer enjoys prancing around as a half-naked female avatar, just like I suppose there are some men who don't appreciate the bulging bicep look of most male avatars.
However, male is male and female is female regardless of sexual orientation, and I can't see any reason to offer visual or other clues of an avatar's supposed sexual preference in a game since it does not matter to game mechanics. Indeed, male or female no longer matters to game mechanics (there was a time when games made females physically weaker than men), but male and female are natural, biological delineations that have nothing to do with social choices or mores.
I really don't understand why this is a topic. I don't think gay people walk around flaunting their sexuality as much as people think they do. It is just a steriotype. I think having a special "gay button," if you will, in a game would be a poor descision, just because it seems unnessicary. If you put in a gay gay button, then you might as well but in a pedophile button, not to mention a castrated button. If you put in one you need the others. Right now there is no defined sexuality in online games that i know of, and i think it should stay that way. To me, online games are a way of escaping the troubles of the real world, not getting forced to examine them again.
Why would a game mechanic be needed to to distinguish homosexual players from heterosexual player? Like seriously, what would it be, a big flaming red title over the character saying "I'm a Homo"? I think things like this are best left to the players own ability to RP their character. Besides, in real life a gay person is no different than a straight person, besides some are a little more flamboyant at times, so why should a game be any different. This is best left up to the individual and how they play their character, anything that would distinguish a players sexual preference from one another would cause bias, and online gay bashing. It would bring in a whole new set of rules. Example: I kill Player A 5 times, no big deal, I kill Player B 5 times, who is also distiguished as a gay player, this could be taken as a hate crime. So in my opinion this is best left as it is, if you wanna RP a gay player, more power to ya, but no mechanic in distinguishing is needed.
I see it like this. If a person comes out saying "Hey, I'm gay" in the real world, I'll talk to them, I won't hang out with them, since I find it gut wrenching seeing a dude kiss and caress another dude.
If they would do it in the MMO world, it wouldn't probably be good for the MMO, Theirs alot of haters in the world, and if somebody came out saying I was gay in the mmo, would probably cause player grief, ad in this day and age of technology, with IP siniffers and what not. That person could possibly place that persons life in danger.
I think MMO should stay away from the marriage thing and just stay neutral. Would you like having 50-100 tells from morons a day flaming you, cause you are gay.
If I was gay i wouldn't, It's bad enough most MMO GM's Don't do nothing anyway.
This is a touchy subject, and it would probably be best, if a company would implement a marriage in any MMO. I wouldn't play or by products from a company or it's affliates that introduced same sex marriages into a game.
Originally posted by Jorev I think it's a timely subject because there is a movement currently in the gay community, to challenge heterosexual traditions and forcefully inject the topic of homosexuality into the lives of heterosexuals, who normally would be indifferent and agreeable to gay rights. The Advocate, a gay magazine, has created a buzz, suggesting that Superman is gay, who traditionally has been a heterosexual character. Brokeback Mountain, a fictional movie, also chose cowboys to depict as homosexuals, to evoke a reaction, because they are traditionally representative of heterosexuals. I can see this trend being applied to the virtual gaming world as well, and I am confused by the motivation. If the goal of these gay groups is to force an in your face discussion of homosexuality resulting in acknowledgement of equality, I don't think it's working as it mainly just makes people angry. I agree with the notion that sexual orientation should not be a focus for character creation, but if heterosexuality is the status quo, isn't it already.
The Advocate is a gay magazine, as you said. The Advocate decides about 3 times a year that some symbol of American machismo is actually gay. It's how they sell magazines. There is always a buzz in the gay community about public characters (RL and fictional) being gay. If you have ever had any gay friends, I'm sure you would have known that.
Homosexuality and heterosexuality have no place in MMORPGs. I disagree with online marriage for anyone, gay or straight. However, these are role playing games, and people already roleplay their characters. Your question makes me wonder if you are wanting some game mechanic that enforces a gay stereotype. I don't think the gay community would really appreciate that.
One of my biggest problems with homsexuals is the fact that so many just seemingly have to flaunt it in your face.
I'm a straight guy, I like women. I don't have to run around screaming about how much I love women. I don't dress flamboyantly merely to send a message [stereotype...but it's only meant to apply to the 5 percent of homosexuals who feel the need to run around in obscurely tight and brigh clothing, often for the opposite sex...]
I don't take any additional offense to seeing a homosexual person making out in public than I do a heterosexual person. Regardless of your gender, age, ethnicity, or sexual preference, the fact of the matter is that I just don't care. Sure, I've got my own little mental, personal judgments about everyone, but unless it's rubbed in my face, I generally don't care.
The point I'm trying to make is that generally, most people don't give a damn. Keep what you do behind closed door BEHIND closed doors. Don't randomly Ellen Degeneres me and bring up your homosexuality at every given oppurtunity. Do I start my conversation with 'By the way, I'm straight'¿ No. So why do so many people feel the need to inform me of their sexual preferences¿ Do you want a pat on the back, a cookie, a congratulations, or what¿
Seriously, I really don't care about your preference, but I don't wanna hear about it. If you wanna run around as a male elf in a thong, shirtless, go ahead. But the second you feel the need to start /emote grabs elf male number 2's ass, I'm going to get pissed off.
Waiting for something fresh to arrive on the MMO scene...
I don't think I would buy any game that had alot of sexuality inlcuding homosexuality.
People are there to try to find ADVENTURE and COMERADERIE, make some friends, have some laughs, win phat lewt.
If you start making NPC's that are flaming queers, suddenly the game becomes politicised and sexualized. I don't ask what NPC's do in their own bedroom, it doesn't bother me until they try to shove it in my face and make me say I'm okay with it.
I'm okay with ANYTHING until you try to shove it in my face, and it is going to cause a backlash.
I think Bush getting re-elected was partly a backlash by people who are sick of hearing about homosexuality.
Its like hearing Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton on a daily basis talking about race relations. Shut up already, there is only 1 race, the human race, the more you talk about "race relations" you CREATE racial division.
There is no homosexual. There is no heterosexual. There is just humans doing whatever the hell they want. Mind your business, stop trying to shove it in people's faces.
You see, I have a problem. Although I'm a straight guy in RL, I often play females toons in my mmorpgs. The reason for this is that I'd rather look at a chick's bum for hours at a time than some muscle bound guy.
This makes me feel a little strange however, and other players often treat me as a woman, and I feel bad not reciprocating. I often have to tell them I'm not a fem in RL, which seems to make people 'uncomfortable'.
Now, if there's a homo button that I can select during character creation, I can click it and problem solved!!! I'll be a RL guy who plays a toon who likes chicks, all the while watching my babe toon. In other words, I'm a lesbian, trapped in a mans body.
I often have to tell them I'm not a fem in RL, which seems to make people 'uncomfortable'.
That's almost laughable. Any guy that assumes a girl toon is really a girl just because the toon happens to be female must be very new to MMOs. About 90% of the girl toons in any MMO are guys. Girls play MMOs and there's lots of them but no where near as many as the m/f toon % would indicate.
Playing a girl toon is fine ( for most people ) ...acting like a girl when you're really a guy is messed up.
As for the "Do what you want but don't do it around me" assholes, you express your sexuality openly everyday in several different ways. From "checking" out women to just being "nice" (translation: Let me get that for you = Wanna fuck?). Ever be talking with your friends and a totally hot piece of ass walks by? What happens? Yeah, that's right, life stops and you damn near crack you neck trying to get a better view. Maybe a poorly concealed "DAHMN!!" slips out from one or two guys in other clicks that are also staring like lions eyeing antelope.
I think I may have been blunt enough, but for those of you that still don't get it: Don't stand on some kind of pedestal and claim that gay people are unfairly "rubbing your face in it" when you're equally guilty of the same shit. The main difference is that you do it without thinking and haven't been taught that your way is "wrong" and Perverted.
Originally posted by Jimmy_Scythe DamonVile wrote: About 90% of the girl toons in any MMO are guys. Actually, that number is way to high. Everyone knows that THERE ARE NO GIRLS ON THE INTERWEB!!! As for the "Do what you want but don't do it around me" assholes, you express your sexuality openly everyday in several different ways. From "checking" out women to just being "nice" (translation: Let me get that for you = Wanna fuck?). Ever be talking with your friends and a totally hot piece of ass walks by? What happens? Yeah, that's right, life stops and you damn near crack you neck trying to get a better view. Maybe a poorly concealed "DAHMN!!" slips out from one or two guys in other clicks that are also staring like lions eyeing antelope. I think I may have been blunt enough, but for those of you that still don't get it: Don't stand on some kind of pedestal and claim that gay people are unfairly "rubbing your face in it" when you're equally guilty of the same shit. The main difference is that you do it without thinking and haven't been taught that your way is "wrong" and Perverted.
They probably do that because they are attracted to women, and because they know their friends are attracted to women too.
Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!
That's not always true. If I see a hot girl walk by when I'm somewhere, I'll take note, and continue on my way, and maybe introduce myself to the girl. The only time I'll look like an ass around everyone is if I'm around my friends. That's only because they're my close friends, we know each other well enough that it's not an issue, and I don't think any of us care.
There is a difference though. I might do that shit around friends, but not around strangers, or in a very public place. That's one of the main differences I notice between many gays and many straight people. Granted, there's always that couple that makes out in the hallway or whatever, and I frown upon them too. But more often than not, I see homosexuals engaging in affectionate behavior publicly. Like the OP said, many times it's solely for attention.
The problem isn't with people being gay, it's as if they want to shock people that they are. Like the same sex¿ OK, fine. Keep it to yourself, and the people around you. But I really don't think anyone wants to see anyone, gay or straight, talking about their sexuality all the time, or flaunting it publicly.
That's my 2 cents.
Waiting for something fresh to arrive on the MMO scene...
I think Bush getting re-elected was partly a backlash by people who are sick of hearing about homosexuality.
Its like hearing Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton on a daily basis talking about race relations. Shut up already, there is only 1 race, the human race, the more you talk about "race relations" you CREATE racial division.
There is no homosexual. There is no heterosexual. There is just humans doing whatever the hell they want. Mind your business, stop trying to shove it in people's faces.
on the contrary, Bush got elected because the GOP used high tension emotional issues like gay marriage and abortion to get the conservatives to the polls. In my home state, the GOP added an open vote to ban gay marriage to the ballot. The republicans know that there is not enough support to ban gay marriage, but they want to get conservative Christians and gay haters to the polls because they will most likely vote GOP. Gay rights advocates "throw it in your face" because anti-gay rights activists have been "throwing it in your face" for years.
Oh yeah, the GOP also flat out rigged the elections in many states by illegally disqualifying or flat out destroying registered Democrats voter registration forms. That's really how Bush won the second election.
Gay rights and race relations are both really complicated problems, and, honestly, unless you are a member of oen of those groups(or you have actively studied the issue), you really have no idea how deep the discrimination goes. If you think that Jesse Jackson created racial division, then you really need to pick up some history books. (not the one's from high school or college either)
There is a gay debate raging in the off topic forum and I thought a more relevant thread would be interesting.
I believe the standard of female and male characters in MMOGs has been to represent them as heterosexuals, but I wonder how long it will be before a MMOG is released that specifically allows character customization for homosexuality.
Homosexuals seem to want to stand out and be recognized in society and be treated equally, not just blend in without being noticed. What do you think of the possibility that a game might allow character customization based on sexual orientation?
I, as a homosexual, find that highlighted statement a bit confusing.
Before I comment any further on your post, would you mind clarifying what you mean by that?
I do not, nor have I ever, wanted to "stand out" in society. I don't want any special treatment or consideration. I only want equal treatment and consideration. And we've been forced to yell and scream and stand out to even begin to move in the direction of being treated equally.
Straight people who can't empathise scare me. If you could be me for 5 minutes your whole life perspective would change forever. You have no idea what it's like being a minority, much less one that others have been given a free ride to shun and chastize.
I hope you didn't mean what your comment sounded like it meant. I never wanted to stand out in society. I would love to blend in and share in your society. Most straight people won't let us though.
That's not always true. If I see a hot girl walk by when I'm somewhere, I'll take note, and continue on my way, and maybe introduce myself to the girl. The only time I'll look like an ass around everyone is if I'm around my friends. That's only because they're my close friends, we know each other well enough that it's not an issue, and I don't think any of us care.
There is a difference though. I might do that shit around friends, but not around strangers, or in a very public place. That's one of the main differences I notice between many gays and many straight people. Granted, there's always that couple that makes out in the hallway or whatever, and I frown upon them too. But more often than not, I see homosexuals engaging in affectionate behavior publicly. Like the OP said, many times it's solely for attention.
The problem isn't with people being gay, it's as if they want to shock people that they are. Like the same sex¿ OK, fine. Keep it to yourself, and the people around you. But I really don't think anyone wants to see anyone, gay or straight, talking about their sexuality all the time, or flaunting it publicly.
That's my 2 cents.
How do you know every gay person that you see.
Every person that I've ever come out to has had no idea I'm gay. Even my closest friends. You wouldn't know I was gay if you knew me. I promise you. Much less if you saw me walking past you on the street.
I don't mean this in a derogatory way, but your statement is really ignorrant. And I mean that in that you don't what you're talking about. You're assuming that the stereotypical gay is how we all are. I would challenge you and say that 90% or more of us don't act that way.
Is it hard for you to believe that a gay person could act and do things just like you? I bet in a lot of ways I act more "straight" than you do.
What I mean is, gay rights is more than just equal rights, it's about being able to publicly say you are gay and not be considered any differently than a heterosexual. Frankly that isn't possible because the norm and majority is heterosexual, that is just a fact of life. Anyone who has a preference which differs from the majority will be considered different. Now that doesn't mean that gays are not entitled to equal rights, but there is a huge difference between equal rights and demanding to not be considered different.
"Coming out" is about exposing your preference to others, since you already know your own preference. Discrediting the military's don't ask don't tell policy, which equally allows gays to serve in the military as long as they don't publicize their preference, is about recognition. Not being satisfied with gay unions, which have the same legal protections as marriage, and demanding that gay unions be referred to as marriage, is again about recognition.
The agenda of attacking heterosexual icons and stereotypes such as cowboys and Superman, is about forcing a dialogue with heterosexuals, insisting there is no destinction between heterosexuals and homosexuals, while realisticaly being different. It seems plausible that this insistence on recognition would surface in virtual gaming also.
"We feel gold selling and websites that promote it damage games like Vanguard and will do everything possible to combat it." Brad McQuaid Chairman & CEO, Sigil Games Online, Inc. Executive Producer, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes www.vanguardsoh
Originally posted by Jorev There is a gay debate raging in the off topic forum and I thought a more relevant thread would be interesting. I believe the standard of female and male characters in MMOGs has been to represent them as heterosexuals, but I wonder how long it will be before a MMOG is released that specifically allows character customization for homosexuality. Homosexuals seem to want to stand out and be recognized in society and be treated equally, not just blend in without being noticed. What do you think of the possibility that a game might allow character customization based on sexual orientation?
Actually it already is there.For those that read pczone and FHM in the UK would know of the writer who makes fun of mmorpg(he loves them by the way hehe) and is also a big fan of CoH and made a gay superero and ran around him for a while.
He made a freddie mercury look alike in all pink(ok i know its stereotyping but just showing the possiblity is there to make your char look however u like).
I don't know every gay person I see. Not until they show me in some manner or another, or tell me themselves.
There's not always signs or tells that someone is gay. But if you're trying to say that sometimes it isn't obvious, I'd call you a liar. I think we've all seen a picture at the very least of someone who's been labelled 'flaming gay'. Tight shorts, undercut shirt, sometimes even makeup. You know there's not a stereotype for 'flaming straight' though, and there's a reason for that.
I would have to say, you're pretty damn presumptuous to call my statement ignorant. I base my statement on my personal experience. Who are you to tell me that my personal experience is wrong¿ The fact is, I know not all of the homsexuals act frilly, I even know a few who caught me off guard when they came out. But in my experience, it's generally not that hard to spot a gay person, because they have a distinct behavior, style of dress and talk, and body language that I can associate with them.
Frankly, I'm very comfortable with my sexuality, and I don't distinguish gay people as a different breed or anything. But no, I don't want to hear about what you do behind closed doors. Period. If you take offense to that, well, that's just too bad. A person shouldn't be judged on their choice in a sexual partner, but they also shouldn't be flaunting that choice or giving details about it unless asked either.
Waiting for something fresh to arrive on the MMO scene...
Originally posted by Cillasi Today's MMOs have nothing to do with sex, sexuality or sexual preference.
If only that were true... Alas, people rarely keep their hormones in check, even in public, even in games.
Horny Net Geek: /tell HotElfChick Will you cyber me?
Hot Elf Chick (Who or may not be an elf, or a chick, IRL): /tell HNGeek No. I will not cyber you in a boat, I will not cyber you with a goat. I will not cyber you here or there, I will not cyber you anywhere. Remove thyself! I ban thee!
(EDIT: Ah, yes, then the /ignore HNGeek. Can't forget that part of my little skit. hehe...)
... My husband ought to hotkey that, for as often as he gets hit on.
... This is where I draw the line: __________________.
Originally posted by Jorev What I mean is, gay rights is more than just equal rights, it's about being able to publicly say you are gay and not be considered any differently than a heterosexual. Frankly that isn't possible because the norm and majority is heterosexual, that is just a fact of life. Anyone who has a preference which differs from the majority will be considered different. Now that doesn't mean that gays are not entitled to equal rights, but there is a huge difference between equal rights and demanding to not be considered different. "Coming out" is about exposing your preference to others, since you already know your own preference. Discrediting the military's don't ask don't tell policy, which equally allows gays to serve in the military as long as they don't publicize their preference, is about recognition. Not being satisfied with gay unions, which have the same legal protections as marriage, and demanding that gay unions be referred to as marriage, is again about recognition. The agenda of attacking heterosexual icons and stereotypes such as cowboys and Superman, is about forcing a dialogue with heterosexuals, insisting there is no destinction between heterosexuals and homosexuals, while realisticaly being different. It seems plausible that this insistence on recognition would surface in virtual gaming also.
WHAT?!?!?!
Seriously, what are you talking about?
Do you have any gay friends?
Attacking heterosexual icons?!?!?!
Do you realize that there are gay comic book heroes drawn by the comic book artists and writers themselves? They're not made to do it. As a matter of fact, some of the writers and artists of comic books are gay, so they're just expressing themselves.
And since when is being a cowboy a good old straight boys club? Can a gay man not herd cattle or ride a horse like a straight man can?
Look, I'm gay. Here's what I like to do.
My favorite thing in the world is snow skiing. I live for it. And I kick ass at it. I also like sports. Football, baseball, and hockey. I like watching those sports and PLAYING them too. And I'm anything but passive when I play. Trust me. I also like going to the gym. I would bet I can probably bench more than you. I also like to drink beer. Budweiser as a matter of fact. I really enjoy working on old trucks. Sometimes muscle cars too, but I prefer rebuilding old trucks. I've rebuilt and sold 6 so far. I like steak and potatos. My favorite meal. All of these things would lend themselves to have someone conclude that I probably have a fair amount of a hormone in my bloodstream called testosterone. It's what makes males, "male like".
I promise you, if you were to meet me and I didn't tell you I was gay you would never know until you were told. I don't do "gay" things. I hate the stereotypical "gay" things. I hate shopping, I don't care much what my hair looks like, I have trouble getting my clothes to match, and my house is usually a mess.
So, am I supposed to forego my true personality so that I fit into your stereotypical gay male mold? So that you don't think I am attacking your traditional straight icons?
I don't know every gay person I see. Not until they show me in some manner or another, or tell me themselves.
There's not always signs or tells that someone is gay. But if you're trying to say that sometimes it isn't obvious, I'd call you a liar. I think we've all seen a picture at the very least of someone who's been labelled 'flaming gay'. Tight shorts, undercut shirt, sometimes even makeup. You know there's not a stereotype for 'flaming straight' though, and there's a reason for that.
I would have to say, you're pretty damn presumptuous to call my statement ignorant. I base my statement on my personal experience. Who are you to tell me that my personal experience is wrong¿ The fact is, I know not all of the homsexuals act frilly, I even know a few who caught me off guard when they came out. But in my experience, it's generally not that hard to spot a gay person, because they have a distinct behavior, style of dress and talk, and body language that I can associate with them.
Frankly, I'm very comfortable with my sexuality, and I don't distinguish gay people as a different breed or anything. But no, I don't want to hear about what you do behind closed doors. Period. If you take offense to that, well, that's just too bad. A person shouldn't be judged on their choice in a sexual partner, but they also shouldn't be flaunting that choice or giving details about it unless asked either.
My point is, how do you know it's generally not hard to spot a gay person?
How do you know you're spotting every single one of them when you admit yourself that not every gay person is "frilly".
I know you're not in the gay community, so you may not know this. But a lot of gay people don't like the gays who dress in those tight shorts and wear those clothes you talk about. We're normal people who like to do normal things, and we see stuff like that it makes us sick to our stomachs that someone is giving ammo to people who want an excuse to say we're different.
I would say if someone is gay and acting feminine, then they are not just gay, but have gender identity issues. Those could be caused from someone not being able to deal with being gay, but being gay does not make you act like the opposite sex. I have functioning sex organs that pump the same hormones in my body as you do (assuming your a dude, ) And I like to do the same kind of guy stuff that straight guys do.
The only difference between me and most straight guys is I don't chase trim.
I don't know every gay person I see. Not until they show me in some manner or another, or tell me themselves.
There's not always signs or tells that someone is gay. But if you're trying to say that sometimes it isn't obvious, I'd call you a liar. I think we've all seen a picture at the very least of someone who's been labelled 'flaming gay'. Tight shorts, undercut shirt, sometimes even makeup. You know there's not a stereotype for 'flaming straight' though, and there's a reason for that.
I would have to say, you're pretty damn presumptuous to call my statement ignorant. I base my statement on my personal experience. Who are you to tell me that my personal experience is wrong¿ The fact is, I know not all of the homsexuals act frilly, I even know a few who caught me off guard when they came out. But in my experience, it's generally not that hard to spot a gay person, because they have a distinct behavior, style of dress and talk, and body language that I can associate with them.
Frankly, I'm very comfortable with my sexuality, and I don't distinguish gay people as a different breed or anything. But no, I don't want to hear about what you do behind closed doors. Period. If you take offense to that, well, that's just too bad. A person shouldn't be judged on their choice in a sexual partner, but they also shouldn't be flaunting that choice or giving details about it unless asked either.
I was a Navy Corpsman and trained with the Marines. I knew some gay Marines. And I can promise you they were tough as nails. And they didn't have any of those distinct behaviors, styles of dress, or body language that you're speaking of. Those guys kicked some ass. And everyone around them knew it too.
Comments
Today's MMOs have nothing to do with sex, sexuality or sexual preference. What are you considering? Allowing male avatars to dress in female clothing or vice-versa? That's transvestism, not homosexuality. Not every female gamer enjoys prancing around as a half-naked female avatar, just like I suppose there are some men who don't appreciate the bulging bicep look of most male avatars.
However, male is male and female is female regardless of sexual orientation, and I can't see any reason to offer visual or other clues of an avatar's supposed sexual preference in a game since it does not matter to game mechanics. Indeed, male or female no longer matters to game mechanics (there was a time when games made females physically weaker than men), but male and female are natural, biological delineations that have nothing to do with social choices or mores.
I see it like this. If a person comes out saying "Hey, I'm gay" in the real world, I'll talk to them, I won't hang out with them, since I find it gut wrenching seeing a dude kiss and caress another dude.
If they would do it in the MMO world, it wouldn't probably be good for the MMO, Theirs alot of haters in the world, and if somebody came out saying I was gay in the mmo, would probably cause player grief, ad in this day and age of technology, with IP siniffers and what not. That person could possibly place that persons life in danger.
I think MMO should stay away from the marriage thing and just stay neutral. Would you like having 50-100 tells from morons a day flaming you, cause you are gay.
If I was gay i wouldn't, It's bad enough most MMO GM's Don't do nothing anyway.
This is a touchy subject, and it would probably be best, if a company would implement a marriage in any MMO. I wouldn't play or by products from a company or it's affliates that introduced same sex marriages into a game.
The Advocate is a gay magazine, as you said. The Advocate decides about 3 times a year that some symbol of American machismo is actually gay. It's how they sell magazines. There is always a buzz in the gay community about public characters (RL and fictional) being gay. If you have ever had any gay friends, I'm sure you would have known that.
Homosexuality and heterosexuality have no place in MMORPGs. I disagree with online marriage for anyone, gay or straight. However, these are role playing games, and people already roleplay their characters. Your question makes me wonder if you are wanting some game mechanic that enforces a gay stereotype. I don't think the gay community would really appreciate that.
Which FF Character Are You?
I'm a straight guy, I like women. I don't have to run around screaming about how much I love women. I don't dress flamboyantly merely to send a message [stereotype...but it's only meant to apply to the 5 percent of homosexuals who feel the need to run around in obscurely tight and brigh clothing, often for the opposite sex...]
I don't take any additional offense to seeing a homosexual person making out in public than I do a heterosexual person. Regardless of your gender, age, ethnicity, or sexual preference, the fact of the matter is that I just don't care. Sure, I've got my own little mental, personal judgments about everyone, but unless it's rubbed in my face, I generally don't care.
The point I'm trying to make is that generally, most people don't give a damn. Keep what you do behind closed door BEHIND closed doors. Don't randomly Ellen Degeneres me and bring up your homosexuality at every given oppurtunity. Do I start my conversation with 'By the way, I'm straight'¿ No. So why do so many people feel the need to inform me of their sexual preferences¿ Do you want a pat on the back, a cookie, a congratulations, or what¿
Seriously, I really don't care about your preference, but I don't wanna hear about it. If you wanna run around as a male elf in a thong, shirtless, go ahead. But the second you feel the need to start /emote grabs elf male number 2's ass, I'm going to get pissed off.
Waiting for something fresh to arrive on the MMO scene...
I already RP a bisexual/homosexual character.
You don't need game mechanics for that.
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In memory of Laura "Taera" Genender. Passed away on August 13, 2008.
People are there to try to find ADVENTURE and COMERADERIE, make some friends, have some laughs, win phat lewt.
If you start making NPC's that are flaming queers, suddenly the game becomes politicised and sexualized. I don't ask what NPC's do in their own bedroom, it doesn't bother me until they try to shove it in my face and make me say I'm okay with it.
I'm okay with ANYTHING until you try to shove it in my face, and it is going to cause a backlash.
I think Bush getting re-elected was partly a backlash by people who are sick of hearing about homosexuality.
Its like hearing Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton on a daily basis talking about race relations. Shut up already, there is only 1 race, the human race, the more you talk about "race relations" you CREATE racial division.
There is no homosexual. There is no heterosexual. There is just humans doing whatever the hell they want. Mind your business, stop trying to shove it in people's faces.
You see, I have a problem. Although I'm a straight guy in RL, I often play females toons in my mmorpgs. The reason for this is that I'd rather look at a chick's bum for hours at a time than some muscle bound guy.
This makes me feel a little strange however, and other players often treat me as a woman, and I feel bad not reciprocating. I often have to tell them I'm not a fem in RL, which seems to make people 'uncomfortable'.
Now, if there's a homo button that I can select during character creation, I can click it and problem solved!!! I'll be a RL guy who plays a toon who likes chicks, all the while watching my babe toon. In other words, I'm a lesbian, trapped in a mans body.
Sign me up!
Playing a girl toon is fine ( for most people ) ...acting like a girl when you're really a guy is messed up.
DamonVile wrote:
About 90% of the girl toons in any MMO are guys.
Actually, that number is way to high. Everyone knows that THERE ARE NO GIRLS ON THE INTERWEB!!!
As for the "Do what you want but don't do it around me" assholes, you express your sexuality openly everyday in several different ways. From "checking" out women to just being "nice" (translation: Let me get that for you = Wanna fuck?). Ever be talking with your friends and a totally hot piece of ass walks by? What happens? Yeah, that's right, life stops and you damn near crack you neck trying to get a better view. Maybe a poorly concealed "DAHMN!!" slips out from one or two guys in other clicks that are also staring like lions eyeing antelope.
I think I may have been blunt enough, but for those of you that still don't get it: Don't stand on some kind of pedestal and claim that gay people are unfairly "rubbing your face in it" when you're equally guilty of the same shit. The main difference is that you do it without thinking and haven't been taught that your way is "wrong" and Perverted.
Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!
That's not always true. If I see a hot girl walk by when I'm somewhere, I'll take note, and continue on my way, and maybe introduce myself to the girl. The only time I'll look like an ass around everyone is if I'm around my friends. That's only because they're my close friends, we know each other well enough that it's not an issue, and I don't think any of us care.
There is a difference though. I might do that shit around friends, but not around strangers, or in a very public place. That's one of the main differences I notice between many gays and many straight people. Granted, there's always that couple that makes out in the hallway or whatever, and I frown upon them too. But more often than not, I see homosexuals engaging in affectionate behavior publicly. Like the OP said, many times it's solely for attention.
The problem isn't with people being gay, it's as if they want to shock people that they are. Like the same sex¿ OK, fine. Keep it to yourself, and the people around you. But I really don't think anyone wants to see anyone, gay or straight, talking about their sexuality all the time, or flaunting it publicly.
That's my 2 cents.
Waiting for something fresh to arrive on the MMO scene...
on the contrary, Bush got elected because the GOP used high tension emotional issues like gay marriage and abortion to get the conservatives to the polls. In my home state, the GOP added an open vote to ban gay marriage to the ballot. The republicans know that there is not enough support to ban gay marriage, but they want to get conservative Christians and gay haters to the polls because they will most likely vote GOP. Gay rights advocates "throw it in your face" because anti-gay rights activists have been "throwing it in your face" for years.
Oh yeah, the GOP also flat out rigged the elections in many states by illegally disqualifying or flat out destroying registered Democrats voter registration forms. That's really how Bush won the second election.
Gay rights and race relations are both really complicated problems, and, honestly, unless you are a member of oen of those groups(or you have actively studied the issue), you really have no idea how deep the discrimination goes. If you think that Jesse Jackson created racial division, then you really need to pick up some history books. (not the one's from high school or college either)
Which FF Character Are You?
Before I comment any further on your post, would you mind clarifying what you mean by that?
I do not, nor have I ever, wanted to "stand out" in society. I don't want any special treatment or consideration. I only want equal treatment and consideration. And we've been forced to yell and scream and stand out to even begin to move in the direction of being treated equally.
Straight people who can't empathise scare me. If you could be me for 5 minutes your whole life perspective would change forever. You have no idea what it's like being a minority, much less one that others have been given a free ride to shun and chastize.
I hope you didn't mean what your comment sounded like it meant. I never wanted to stand out in society. I would love to blend in and share in your society. Most straight people won't let us though.
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Every person that I've ever come out to has had no idea I'm gay. Even my closest friends. You wouldn't know I was gay if you knew me. I promise you. Much less if you saw me walking past you on the street.
I don't mean this in a derogatory way, but your statement is really ignorrant. And I mean that in that you don't what you're talking about. You're assuming that the stereotypical gay is how we all are. I would challenge you and say that 90% or more of us don't act that way.
Is it hard for you to believe that a gay person could act and do things just like you? I bet in a lot of ways I act more "straight" than you do.
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What I mean is, gay rights is more than just equal rights, it's about being able to publicly say you are gay and not be considered any differently than a heterosexual. Frankly that isn't possible because the norm and majority is heterosexual, that is just a fact of life. Anyone who has a preference which differs from the majority will be considered different. Now that doesn't mean that gays are not entitled to equal rights, but there is a huge difference between equal rights and demanding to not be considered different.
"Coming out" is about exposing your preference to others, since you already know your own preference. Discrediting the military's don't ask don't tell policy, which equally allows gays to serve in the military as long as they don't publicize their preference, is about recognition. Not being satisfied with gay unions, which have the same legal protections as marriage, and demanding that gay unions be referred to as marriage, is again about recognition.
The agenda of attacking heterosexual icons and stereotypes such as cowboys and Superman, is about forcing a dialogue with heterosexuals, insisting there is no destinction between heterosexuals and homosexuals, while realisticaly being different. It seems plausible that this insistence on recognition would surface in virtual gaming also.
"We feel gold selling and websites that promote it damage games like Vanguard and will do everything possible to combat it."
Brad McQuaid
Chairman & CEO, Sigil Games Online, Inc.
Executive Producer, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes
www.vanguardsoh
Actually it already is there.For those that read pczone and FHM in the UK would know of the writer who makes fun of mmorpg(he loves them by the way hehe) and is also a big fan of CoH and made a gay superero and ran around him for a while.
He made a freddie mercury look alike in all pink(ok i know its stereotyping but just showing the possiblity is there to make your char look however u like).
I don't know every gay person I see. Not until they show me in some manner or another, or tell me themselves.
There's not always signs or tells that someone is gay. But if you're trying to say that sometimes it isn't obvious, I'd call you a liar. I think we've all seen a picture at the very least of someone who's been labelled 'flaming gay'. Tight shorts, undercut shirt, sometimes even makeup. You know there's not a stereotype for 'flaming straight' though, and there's a reason for that.
I would have to say, you're pretty damn presumptuous to call my statement ignorant. I base my statement on my personal experience. Who are you to tell me that my personal experience is wrong¿ The fact is, I know not all of the homsexuals act frilly, I even know a few who caught me off guard when they came out. But in my experience, it's generally not that hard to spot a gay person, because they have a distinct behavior, style of dress and talk, and body language that I can associate with them.
Frankly, I'm very comfortable with my sexuality, and I don't distinguish gay people as a different breed or anything. But no, I don't want to hear about what you do behind closed doors. Period. If you take offense to that, well, that's just too bad. A person shouldn't be judged on their choice in a sexual partner, but they also shouldn't be flaunting that choice or giving details about it unless asked either.
Waiting for something fresh to arrive on the MMO scene...
If only that were true... Alas, people rarely keep their hormones in check, even in public, even in games.
Horny Net Geek: /tell HotElfChick Will you cyber me?
Hot Elf Chick (Who or may not be an elf, or a chick, IRL): /tell HNGeek No. I will not cyber you in a boat, I will not cyber you with a goat. I will not cyber you here or there, I will not cyber you anywhere. Remove thyself! I ban thee!
(EDIT: Ah, yes, then the /ignore HNGeek. Can't forget that part of my little skit. hehe...)
... My husband ought to hotkey that, for as often as he gets hit on.
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This is where I draw the line: __________________.
Seriously, what are you talking about?
Do you have any gay friends?
Attacking heterosexual icons?!?!?!
Do you realize that there are gay comic book heroes drawn by the comic book artists and writers themselves? They're not made to do it. As a matter of fact, some of the writers and artists of comic books are gay, so they're just expressing themselves.
And since when is being a cowboy a good old straight boys club? Can a gay man not herd cattle or ride a horse like a straight man can?
Look, I'm gay. Here's what I like to do.
My favorite thing in the world is snow skiing. I live for it. And I kick ass at it. I also like sports. Football, baseball, and hockey. I like watching those sports and PLAYING them too. And I'm anything but passive when I play. Trust me. I also like going to the gym. I would bet I can probably bench more than you. I also like to drink beer. Budweiser as a matter of fact. I really enjoy working on old trucks. Sometimes muscle cars too, but I prefer rebuilding old trucks. I've rebuilt and sold 6 so far. I like steak and potatos. My favorite meal. All of these things would lend themselves to have someone conclude that I probably have a fair amount of a hormone in my bloodstream called testosterone. It's what makes males, "male like".
I promise you, if you were to meet me and I didn't tell you I was gay you would never know until you were told. I don't do "gay" things. I hate the stereotypical "gay" things. I hate shopping, I don't care much what my hair looks like, I have trouble getting my clothes to match, and my house is usually a mess.
So, am I supposed to forego my true personality so that I fit into your stereotypical gay male mold? So that you don't think I am attacking your traditional straight icons?
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FABLE! you can be gay in fable dam queers they dont even play games....much.....................................................................
.......................................................................................................................fags!!!!!
How do you know you're spotting every single one of them when you admit yourself that not every gay person is "frilly".
I know you're not in the gay community, so you may not know this. But a lot of gay people don't like the gays who dress in those tight shorts and wear those clothes you talk about. We're normal people who like to do normal things, and we see stuff like that it makes us sick to our stomachs that someone is giving ammo to people who want an excuse to say we're different.
I would say if someone is gay and acting feminine, then they are not just gay, but have gender identity issues. Those could be caused from someone not being able to deal with being gay, but being gay does not make you act like the opposite sex. I have functioning sex organs that pump the same hormones in my body as you do (assuming your a dude,
The only difference between me and most straight guys is I don't chase trim.
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