Tiered pricing, and ticketed events.

frostydf2 · June 2006

In Simutronics past MUD's they have had a unique way of pricing their games. In the past they had three levels of paying. $15 a month for premium, $40 a month for prime, and $50 a month for platinum. Platinum played on their own server, while premium, and prime played on their own. Simutroncs may introduce this same pricing method into Hero's Journey with the addition of ticketed events which were also done in their past MUD's.

While some may find this is an awsome way to price a game, others disagree. Over at Hero's Hall a few debates have actually grown into heated arguements from one stance to the other. The vote seems to be against ticketed events, and tiered pricing. However, I would really like to know what you guys think about tiered pricing, and ticketed events. I want to get MMORGP.com's opinion on the subject matter, and if you think it will be Simutronics slitting their own throat, or a great triumph.

For those who wish to continue the debate at Hero's Hall here are a few links...

Tiered pricing? Fine., But ticketed events? Please vote in the poll!!!!

Payment Options

Sylvado · June 2006

Looks like I better start digging in.

frostydf2 · June 2006

Originally posted by Sylvado

Looks like I better start digging in.

I hope I didn't sound biased in my post at all. You are however going up against a tough crowd. May the force be wtih you.

Elnator · June 2006

The premium (normal) pricing is just like any other MMO.
The prime (enhanced) pricing gave players extra characters, extra bank storage, etc. But no real advantage in the game.

The premier (super-duper-play on our own server with extra GM's) pricing didn't cause any imbalances either because those players were segregated from the main community.

Personally I don't see a problem with it. If some schmuck wants to blow $40+ a month to play a damn video game, let them.

frostydf2 · June 2006

I'm not for or against this plan just for future reference. However, what about ticketed events? Would you be ok if someone paid $5 to go on a 1 hour raid with a GM, and the best Wyr were dropped that you were unable to obtain unless you paid the extra $5 to go on a 1 hour raid?

Techleo · June 2006

As long as it was a Wyr I can get if i invest enough time into it im fime. If its one they can get only with the ticket then Im worried. Like sylvado said. Why should I care if one guy gets a jeep and the other a hummer? As long as its a free world and both are available why should i care if the other guy pays more up front just because he can and gets it sooner. Its when the other guy can pay more in real life and get something in the game I could never acheive unless i have real world money that I would call discriminatory. Thats just my opinion tho.

Amathe · June 2006

I think the $50 a month version should be called the "singles" server. I make a good living, but if my wife saw $50 a month on my credit card statement for a subscription to a videogame ... that would be bad.

On a serious note, I don't care if they hand out caviar and champagne on the premium server. It won't affect me. There was a premium server in EQ - Legends - and those of us on the regular servers never cared. This assumes there is adequate content and customer support on the normal servers though.

Elnator · June 2006

Originally posted by frostydf2
I'm not for or against this plan just for future reference. However, what about ticketed events? Would you be ok if someone paid $5 to go on a 1 hour raid with a GM, and the best Wyr were dropped that you were unable to obtain unless you paid the extra $5 to go on a 1 hour raid?

Out of curiosity, have you ever played one of their games before? I have. The ticketted events drop unique items you can't get anywhere else but they are no better than other items (in fact many have exactly the same stats just different descriptions (remember their other online games are text based). If that holds true I have no problem with it.

If someone plays a ticketed event for $5 and gets "Dargnath the goblin slayer" sword that's just the same as any other +3 vs goblins sword in the game then I could care less. I wouldn't even care if it looked way cooler as long as I could get an equivalent item elsewhere (And that's the way it typically worked)

There were other rewards that you couldn't get but they were temporary things that only lasted X time.

So no, I don't see a problem with it. As I said, as long as I can play for a normal fee and not have my gameplay hampered by those who are paying extra? Then I don't care

Let'em waste their cash. I didn't get wealthy by wasting money. Even though I could easily afford the extra money I am not willing to pay it. Heck, I'm not even willing to pay $15 a month for most MMO's because they just aren't worth it. If Simutronics lives up to their history this game will be well worth the fee, however. You wanna see a MMO that nearlly doubles in size every couple months? This will be the one

The "Army of GM's" is NOT a joke

imortal986 · June 2006

Originally posted by Elnator

Originally posted by frostydf2
I'm not for or against this plan just for future reference. However, what about ticketed events? Would you be ok if someone paid $5 to go on a 1 hour raid with a GM, and the best Wyr were dropped that you were unable to obtain unless you paid the extra $5 to go on a 1 hour raid?

Out of curiosity, have you ever played one of their games before? I have. The ticketted events drop unique items you can't get anywhere else but they are no better than other items (in fact many have exactly the same stats just different descriptions (remember their other online games are text based). If that holds true I have no problem with it.

If someone plays a ticketed event for $5 and gets "Dargnath the goblin slayer" sword that's just the same as any other +3 vs goblins sword in the game then I could care less. I wouldn't even care if it looked way cooler as long as I could get an equivalent item elsewhere (And that's the way it typically worked)

There were other rewards that you couldn't get but they were temporary things that only lasted X time.

So no, I don't see a problem with it. As I said, as long as I can play for a normal fee and not have my gameplay hampered by those who are paying extra? Then I don't care

Let'em waste their cash. I didn't get wealthy by wasting money. Even though I could easily afford the extra money I am not willing to pay it. Heck, I'm not even willing to pay $15 a month for most MMO's because they just aren't worth it. If Simutronics lives up to their history this game will be well worth the fee, however. You wanna see a MMO that nearlly doubles in size every couple months? This will be the one

The "Army of GM's" is NOT a joke

THE ARMY OF GM'S is NOTTT a joke. lol just wanted to emphasize this. In DR the were a bunch... I couldn't figure out how they knew when you were RPing so that you get the reward. or how I always got a response in like 2 mins on an esimate 20 min queue....

anyways ticketed events are a good option... not so much the teird accounts. I don't mind if someone has some wicked cool unique item, even if it is a little better, because that doesn't mean they have some ultimate advantage anyways. Ticketed events are just a good way to appeal to those players who need to feel like they are real unique in such a massive world. I'm one of those who likes to have a sword and know its one of a kind even if its not like godly.

Like was said, if people catch on this will be the next mmo to grab a large following. Double every couple months... I'd believe it. Simu can make you feel like there is thought, meaning, and a point to playing their games. Not just mindless grinding, more like the pot of gold at the end of a rainbow type.

For all those DR veterans I just want to know who thinks it funny/ironic that HJ gets a necro. I remember being in the crusade hoping for necro in DR, but I didn't ever find out if DR actually got one...

HJ!!!

EliasThorne · June 2006

Originally posted by Elnator
The premium (normal) pricing is just like any other MMO.
The prime (enhanced) pricing gave players extra characters, extra bank storage, etc. But no real advantage in the game.

The premier (super-duper-play on our own server with extra GM's) pricing didn't cause any imbalances either because those players were segregated from the main community.

Personally I don't see a problem with it. If some schmuck wants to blow $40+ a month to play a damn video game, let them.

Quick question - if you're feeling flush and choose the premier option, enjoy the game - pour your time and energy into the characters, then real life throws a spanner in the works and you can only afford base tier - what then?

My guess is you'd have to start over - that would leave a very nasty taste!

Elnator · June 2006

Originally posted by EliasThorne

Originally posted by Elnator
The premium (normal) pricing is just like any other MMO.
The prime (enhanced) pricing gave players extra characters, extra bank storage, etc. But no real advantage in the game.

The premier (super-duper-play on our own server with extra GM's) pricing didn't cause any imbalances either because those players were segregated from the main community.

Personally I don't see a problem with it. If some schmuck wants to blow $40+ a month to play a damn video game, let them.

Quick question - if you're feeling flush and choose the premier option, enjoy the game - pour your time and energy into the characters, then real life throws a spanner in the works and you can only afford base tier - what then?

My guess is you'd have to start over - that would leave a very nasty taste!

Like I said, I have no interest in the premeir pricing. I know there are people who do, though. The question is, why do you care?

But, that said, anyone who is willing to sink that kind of cash into an MMORPG brings whatever they get upon themselves. I honestly couldn't care less.

jgankum · June 2006

If you took a look at Simu's current games, your "guess" would be wrong. Will this be the same in HJ? Who knows.

Jonny

Brynn · June 2006

You guys are all HJ fans. HJ is hardly known by the majority of online players. It may depend a lot on word of mouth to get a good amount of players. How do you think those possible players will look at tiered pricing? Will the perception be that they will be missing out on something if they choose the lowest tier? Most of them can't afford more. Why would they want to try a game like that when they can choose from so many others being released, like Conan or Warhammer, and get all the bells and whistles without paying more than base cost? Remember, it's perception. How many would be players will dig into the whys and wherefores of HJ if they are already set on Conan, et al? It may have worked for DR, but an MMO will be another ballgame.

HJ-Razu · June 2006

Originally posted by Elnator
The premium (normal) pricing is just like any other MMO.
The prime (enhanced) pricing gave players extra characters, extra bank storage, etc. But no real advantage in the game.

The premier (super-duper-play on our own server with extra GM's) pricing didn't cause any imbalances either because those players were segregated from the main community.

Personally I don't see a problem with it. If some schmuck wants to blow $40+ a month to play a damn video game, let them.

The correct pricing scheme is:

prime -> premium -> platinum

prime is the base account
premium is prime + extra characters + extra bank space + first chance at ticketed events + private homes, etc
platinum is a separate game entirely where the rules are different in regards to Gemstone.

premium players in DR get to beta test before regular prime accounts.
platinum players in both DR and GS act as beta testers before premium/prime as well as have separate instances of ticketed events run at a different time

Platinum, as far as GS goes, provides the old death mechanics from the pre-AOL days. This, plus the smaller community of players with a set of GMs specifically assigned to Platinum, are why people pay the extra $10 a month over a premium account. Platinum access also provides premium access to the regular game.

HJ-Razu · June 2006

Originally posted by frostydf2
I'm not for or against this plan just for future reference. However, what about ticketed events? Would you be ok if someone paid $5 to go on a 1 hour raid with a GM, and the best Wyr were dropped that you were unable to obtain unless you paid the extra $5 to go on a 1 hour raid?

Any ticketed event will encompass many players at the same time working through the instance with the same chance for the rewards as everyone else who paid. There would be no direct GM involvement in regards to physically helping the player. GM involvement would be restricted to dealing with TOS violators, fixing bugs, and running the storyline NPCs.

Simutronics frowns upon and can and will most likely terminate any GM found to be helping one player obtain gear or by providing special services in violation of the rules set forth by Simutronics.

And due to the dynamic nature of the Wyr system, there will be no one "ultimate Wyr" or any combination thereof. Wyr can behave differently based on your race, profession, where it is placed, and with which other Wyr are in use at the time. Plus there will be restrictions as to how many of a certain type of Wyr one can place on an item.

Brynn · June 2006

Originally posted by HJ-Razu

Originally posted by frostydf2
I'm not for or against this plan just for future reference. However, what about ticketed events? Would you be ok if someone paid $5 to go on a 1 hour raid with a GM, and the best Wyr were dropped that you were unable to obtain unless you paid the extra $5 to go on a 1 hour raid?

Any ticketed event will encompass many players at the same time working through the instance with the same chance for the rewards as everyone else who paid. There would be no direct GM involvement in regards to physically helping the player. GM involvement would be restricted to dealing with TOS violators, fixing bugs, and running the storyline NPCs.

Simutronics frowns upon and can and will most likely terminate any GM found to be helping one player obtain gear or by providing special services in violation of the rules set forth by Simutronics.

And due to the dynamic nature of the Wyr system, there will be no one "ultimate Wyr" or any combination thereof. Wyr can behave differently based on your race, profession, where it is placed, and with which other Wyr are in use at the time. Plus there will be restrictions as to how many of a certain type of Wyr one can place on an item.

I don't see that you answered frosty's question. You say a GM can't play favorites, but I think frosty is referring to ticketed events that would include anyone paying the extra money. I could be wrong on that.

HJ-Razu · June 2006

Originally posted by Brynn

Originally posted by HJ-Razu

Originally posted by frostydf2
I'm not for or against this plan just for future reference. However, what about ticketed events? Would you be ok if someone paid $5 to go on a 1 hour raid with a GM, and the best Wyr were dropped that you were unable to obtain unless you paid the extra $5 to go on a 1 hour raid?

Any ticketed event will encompass many players at the same time working through the instance with the same chance for the rewards as everyone else who paid. There would be no direct GM involvement in regards to physically helping the player. GM involvement would be restricted to dealing with TOS violators, fixing bugs, and running the storyline NPCs.

Simutronics frowns upon and can and will most likely terminate any GM found to be helping one player obtain gear or by providing special services in violation of the rules set forth by Simutronics.

And due to the dynamic nature of the Wyr system, there will be no one "ultimate Wyr" or any combination thereof. Wyr can behave differently based on your race, profession, where it is placed, and with which other Wyr are in use at the time. Plus there will be restrictions as to how many of a certain type of Wyr one can place on an item.

I don't see that you answered frosty's question. You say a GM can't play favorites, but I think frosty is referring to ticketed events that would include anyone paying the extra money. I could be wrong on that.

In frosty's example, the GM is running the instance with him. That is not allowed under the rules for GMs as written by Simutronics.

Elnator · June 2006

Originally posted by Brynn
You guys are all HJ fans. HJ is hardly known by the majority of online players. It may depend a lot on word of mouth to get a good amount of players. How do you think those possible players will look at tiered pricing? Will the perception be that they will be missing out on something if they choose the lowest tier? Most of them can't afford more. Why would they want to try a game like that when they can choose from so many others being released, like Conan or Warhammer, and get all the bells and whistles without paying more than base cost? Remember, it's perception. How many would be players will dig into the whys and wherefores of HJ if they are already set on Conan, et al? It may have worked for DR, but an MMO will be another ballgame.

Minor correction:

I'm not an HJ fan. I'm interested in the title because as a MUD player and having played one of Simu's games back in their GEnie days (I haven't played a simu game since, basically because they fell off my radar) I know how much fun this particular type of MMO interaction can be. Will HJ be a huge success? I don't know. But I do know that it will be DIFFERENT in many key ways from the cookie-cutter "lets be like EQ/WoW" MMORPG's on the horizon. A few of the other titles being worked on are different as well (I'm watching those too).

As for the pricing scheme? I don't think that will scare players off as long as the game itself is good. Generally people don't get too bent about pricing schemes as long as they have the ability to play the game for a 'normal' price without having their gameplay negatively impacted.

Chessack · June 2006

I have to say, this is the first I have heard about tiered pricing. I realize this is all theoretical at this point, but if a system like this were put in, I'd be far less likely to get the game. I sure as hell am not paying $40 or more per month to play a freaking video game. If the $15/month is workable I might still try it out, but the odds will be lower, because the whole scheme reeks of "SOE-style money grab" and I had enough of that crap with SOE for 2 years while playing SWG.

The whole "play the base game for a nominal fee but pay for access to content or items", etc, trend that it seems a lot of MMORPGs are gearing up for just totally rubs me the wrong way. It kind of reminds me of "Pay per view" movies, also, which are another thing I hate, and this sounds almost exactly like that.

I suppose I will have to see how it's done, but I can say this dampens my enthusiasm for HJ rather substantially.

C

Brynn · June 2006

Originally posted by Chessack
I have to say, this is the first I have heard about tiered pricing. I realize this is all theoretical at this point, but if a system like this were put in, I'd be far less likely to get the game. I sure as hell am not paying $40 or more per month to play a freaking video game. If the $15/month is workable I might still try it out, but the odds will be lower, because the whole scheme reeks of "SOE-style money grab" and I had enough of that crap with SOE for 2 years while playing SWG.

The whole "play the base game for a nominal fee but pay for access to content or items", etc, trend that it seems a lot of MMORPGs are gearing up for just totally rubs me the wrong way. It kind of reminds me of "Pay per view" movies, also, which are another thing I hate, and this sounds almost exactly like that.

I suppose I will have to see how it's done, but I can say this dampens my enthusiasm for HJ rather substantially.

C

My point exactly. So think of all the players who haven't even heard of Hero's Journey yet. If they see it has tiered pricing, most won't even give it a second look.

Chessack · June 2006

Originally posted by Brynn
My point exactly. So think of all the players who haven't even heard of Hero's Journey yet. If they see it has tiered pricing, most won't even give it a second look.

I agree.

The problem is no matter how Simu implements it, tiered pricing or paying for in-game items with real cash has become equated by most gamers in the world with a sentiment like: "Oh, I see... so if I want to get really serious about the game they're going to charge me more and more for it." They can say until they're blue in the face that the stuff at ticketed events "isn't really better." The question is, are people, before they try it, going to believe that, and if not, is that going to drive them away? And I think it just might.

C

Jenuviel · June 2006

I've been following the game for awhile now. It's really the only game I'm looking forward to, and it has been for over a year. That said, the tiered pricing really, really rubs me the wrong way. Despite the calm, logical, patient, and occasionally patronizing arguments by its supporters, I still just can't make myself feel good about it. Of all the features that have been announced, or even guessed at, hard zone borders and tiered pricing are my only two issues with the game at all..but they're major issues. The zones might be less of an issue than they seem in my mind (if they're done well and are infrequent), but I just can't foresee any situation in which I feel good about being on the bottom rung of the financial ladder in a video game I play to escape that caste system. Perception is reality to the individual, and my perception of tiered pricing is one of haves and have nots.

As I said, I'm in love with the idea of the game itself; I'm not an angry, raving forum poster with foam at the corner of her mouth. What I am is a low-income hospital admissions clerk trying to get the most out of her money. As strange as it may sound, I'd rather sacrifice features for equity than I would equity for features. I'm fully aware that Bill Gates eats in a better restaurant than I do in real life because the best food, the best service costs more money- that's the way the world works. I'd always enjoyed that MMOs were exceptions to that rule, however. I hate the class disparity in real life, and the fact that it's now following me into my "fantasy" life is an extreme turn-off.

Anyway, I don't know if I'm in any way a reflection of other gamers. I doubt it, since I'm rarely a target demographic for these games. Even so, the pricing scheme is absoultely a significant hurdle to overcome for me, and I'm just not sure I'm up for it. I'm almost certain to give the game a try (I've been following it for too long to just give up on it entirely), but this nagging sense of classism isn't going to diseappear no matter how terrific the game turns out to be.

Chessack · June 2006

Very very well said, Jen. I feel mostly the same way.

Heck I have plenty of money right now to subscribe to it for $100/ month if I wanted. It's not the money -- it's the principle of the thing. The whole idea just rubs me the wrong way.

And like you I have been following this game for a while, so I find it rather unsettling. If Lord of the Rings Online announced this price system I'd shrug and ignore... I don't care about that game and doubt I'll even try it. But HJ seems like it's doing so many other things right... that I find it a real shame they are introducing a "haves and have nots" system like this.

As a great example, what will this do to my guild? What if half of the members can afford to, and want to, buy the higher services, and the other half are not able to afford it? Does this mean we can't all enjoy the same content together? Are we now going to have to start implementing guild policies about which tier you can or can't be a member of to join the guild? "Sorry, friend of 20 years, you cannot join me in this ticketed event because you are poor. Tough luck." Yeah, that's the kind of guild interaction I want to see.

C

Dyng-Johan · June 2006

Originally posted by Jenuviel

I've been following the game for awhile now. It's really the only game I'm looking forward to, and it has been for over a year. That said, the tiered pricing really, really rubs me the wrong way. Despite the calm, logical, patient, and occasionally patronizing arguments by its supporters, I still just can't make myself feel good about it. Of all the features that have been announced, or even guessed at, hard zone borders and tiered pricing are my only two issues with the game at all..but they're major issues. The zones might be less of an issue than they seem in my mind (if they're done well and are infrequent), but I just can't foresee any situation in which I feel good about being on the bottom rung of the financial ladder in a video game I play to escape that caste system. Perception is reality to the individual, and my perception of tiered pricing is one of haves and have nots.

As I said, I'm in love with the idea of the game itself; I'm not an angry, raving forum poster with foam at the corner of her mouth. What I am is a low-income hospital admissions clerk trying to get the most out of her money. As strange as it may sound, I'd rather sacrifice features for equity than I would equity for features. I'm fully aware that Bill Gates eats in a better restaurant than I do in real life because the best food, the best service costs more money- that's the way the world works. I'd always enjoyed that MMOs were exceptions to that rule, however. I hate the class disparity in real life, and the fact that it's now following me into my "fantasy" life is an extreme turn-off.

Anyway, I don't know if I'm in any way a reflection of other gamers. I doubt it, since I'm rarely a target demographic for these games. Even so, the pricing scheme is absoultely a significant hurdle to overcome for me, and I'm just not sure I'm up for it. I'm almost certain to give the game a try (I've been following it for too long to just give up on it entirely), but this nagging sense of classism isn't going to diseappear no matter how terrific the game turns out to be.

*hugs Jenuviel*
You have a twin soul in sweden..

I shouldnt have slept through my englishlessons, so I could explain myself like this.
..nothing to add

majoch · June 2006

Very well put Jen. I see you live across the sound from me as well.

Kenorv · June 2006

I think that one thing that we have to remember is that Simu has tiered pricing in their MUD's because of the small player population that they have in those games. There are only two servers in Gemstone for example. One for the prime/premium players and the other for the platinum players. The prime/platinum server has, and this is just an educated guess based on my playing days, 3000 players. The platinum server has a few hundred players. A game like Final Fantasy XI has more than 3000 players on one server alone, and they have like 30 servers. So you do the math. FF can have one pricing system because they have so many players. A game like Gemstone needs to do everything it can to create a profit for Simu because of the limited amount of players they have. Thus it has a tiered pricing system and ticketed events. I don't see that happening in HJ because the game should be able to draw a lot more players than a MUD. Something about graphics seems to attract all the kiddies. Even if there are ticketed events in HJ and you can't afford to buy a ticket then just give an in game friend some in game money and ask him to pick up something for you from the event. That's the way it worked in Gemstone. But again, I don't anticipate any tickted events in HJ because there should be enough players to create a good profit for Simu without the need for such things.

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Tiered pricing, and ticketed events.

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Tiered pricing, and ticketed events.

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