My point exactly. So think of all the players who haven't even heard of Hero's Journey yet. If they see it has tiered pricing, most won't even give it a second look.
Which, I'm sure you'll find, most people who are fans of the old MUDs won't be particularly concerned about as long as it doesn't hurt Simu's wallets too bad (which would result in the game ceasing to exist). I for one am not thrilled by the thought of how much effort Simu GMs will have to go through to manage the waves of complete morons who will show up from games such as WoW. I would probably pay for a Premium or Platinum account to avoid them (especially for the private hunting grounds, if they did that again).
And while you may think of it as money-grubbing, managing any sort of game that has thousands of people on it at a time costs a large amount of money, and sometimes just the base subscriptions aren't always enough for them to make a profit. With tiered pricing, they can even possibly afford to pay the armies of GMs a little something if they manage to stick around long enough.
The idea stinks. Why spread recources to cater for different budgets? make a brilliant game for one and all and you cant go wrong. This kind of capatilist approach disgusts me and if implemented i wont touch it out of principle. In fact the idea that the dev's have a history of this kind of elitist pricing system has already turned me off.
With so many awesome games on the horizon, why would a developer want to alienate a large portion of their market?! Utter madness.
I wouldn't see it so much as alienation, as continuing what they've done thus far for years. While you all see tiered pricing as a bad thing, you have to look at the way it is set up.
- Prime - Your average $15/month account with access to everything that comes out and full gameplay.
- Premium - Everything that's included with prime, but small enhancements. (I.E. Private housing, special accesses to premium only areas (these were really few and rare in the MUDs that Simu had put out).)
- Platinum - Everything that Premium has plus GM interaction for more in depth RPG experience. While it sounds good, alot of players ignored this option. Many, however, wanted the smaller community and play time with the GMs.
There was also a fourth option that hasn't been mentioned. There was an option for a 'rule-less environment'. This was pretty much an open PVP server that anything could happen. Felt like killing someone cuz you're in a bad mood? Go ahead. Feel like gaining levels for your character via a script while you go out to dinner and a movie? Go ahead.
While you don't see these as viable alternatives, they have been pretty popular with the Simutronics crowds and loyalists for as long as they've been out. I had never once felt left out when I was paying for Prime access because any event that happened anywhere, happened in Prime, too. When I upgraded to Premium access, I did so I could have my own 'house' to relax in and have meeting with my friends in privacy, without finding some secluded area with little traffic. (Plus there was the shorter time it takes a bank transfer, which was good for since I was a nomad.)
As for the paid events, I've only ever done one. Did that make me any better or worse than any other player? Nope. I saw an item that you got IF YOU LOST the event, and I got it because we lost. That's the only reason. I wanted a pretty little item that you can charge with magic that looks like the guild crest of the guild I was in. That's about it. So really, if you're getting anything from the Simutronics paid events, it's something that does the exact same as 95% of the items in the game, but looks different.
But knowing how Simutronics works, I can say that even if you don't participate in the pay to play mini-games, you can still participate in the worldwide events, the constant changes, and even the occassional GM to show up and rip your character's spine out once in awhile.
I do feel, that for starting out, Simu should hold off on the tiering for a little bit. Just long enough to have a group of gamers who are enjoying the experience. That way they don't feel as though they are alienating people just because they see multi tiered options for a game that's just beginning. I mean what's the point of a Platinum access of a game that's just released? Everyone's already starting from scratch and moving towards the same goal (finding out about the world and going through character customization).
You are right, Mirrandor, about Simutronics not starting out with tiered pricing. However, it's good HJ is a long way off and we will be learning much more about the game because my guild, that was all fired up about HJ, is already looking towards Age of Conan. And that's largely because of the conception I've been warning about, about tiered pricing. With so many online games to be released, developers need to be very careful about any negative information; that is information that could be conceived as negative.
- Prime - Your average $15/month account with access to everything that comes out and full gameplay. This statement, that the $15 account gets you access to "everything that comes out" and "full game play", is false on its face, given that it does not get you access to this:
- Premium - Everything that's included with prime, but small enhancements. (I.E. Private housing, special accesses to premium only areas (these were really few and rare in the MUDs that Simu had put out).) How can you assert that premium accounts ($40/month, or almost TRIPLE the price of the regular accounts) can get (1) houses, and (2) special areas (I assume this is like a zone), and in the same breath pretend that "everything" is available to "prime" players? Clearly prime players don't get pivate housing and don't get access to these other zones, so they are missing out on "full game play" quite a bit. Or are you going to sit there and pretend that things like private housing being available only if you pay +$25 a month are not going to be seen as "restricting the content by subscription price"?
The whole idea of the naming scheme makes me want to go take a shower. You have 3 tiers, and you call them "Prime, Premium and Platinum"? Normally, all 3 of those words would be used to connote something special or spectacular. Prime is not "prime" it's "normal." They picked that word so it would sound better than it is.. but it's nothing more than a sham. It's the lowest possible tier, and you're getting the least possible content and access to content. Calling it Prime just makes it sound dishonest.
But knowing how Simutronics works, I can say that even if you don't participate in the pay to play mini-games, you can still participate in the worldwide events, the constant changes, and even the occassional GM to show up and rip your character's spine out once in awhile.
A lot of this reads as if you are saying, "Hey, they're cool, trust them." Well, I am not going to just trust them. I will adopt a wait and see attitude. But tiered pricing is just ugly in my book, and I am no great fan of the whole idea.
If they EVER implement a tiered payment system, even tickets, items/gold selling or any other way to benefit in game with real money (and that includes free and "premium" accounts, like in Tibia), I am NOT going to play. Simple as that.
"[The apostrophe] assists in marking the possessives of all nouns and many pronouns." "For the plural of abbreviations, an apostrophe is widely regarded as incorrect, so CDs is preferable to CDs."
Originally posted by KaotiX If they EVER implement a tiered payment system, even tickets, items/gold selling or any other way to benefit in game with real money (and that includes free and "premium" accounts, like in Tibia), I am NOT going to play. Simple as that.But that's just me.
Narrow minded people that judge something that; one does not exist, two has not been defined and three you have not tried, deserve to mis out on "more fun, less tedium".
Well being narrowminded isn't as bad as being a demonizer. LoL
Anywho.. I'd never partake in a ticketed event. It seems to me you're paying cash to meet developers who seem to think they're rock stars in their own game. I've met real celebrities for free on many occassions here in Washington, D.C. so I don't think a buck or even 5 bucks to talk to creative controlled gaming nerds is worth the price of admission, but that is the beauty of choice. I'm looking forward to playing the game, despite progress casting some serious doubts on my first impression of what the developers have said before and what they're saying now and as beta progresses what they say then. Other games out there make you pay for fluff benifits and what not and indeed it seems there's a lot of folks out there dead set on staying with the status quo in their virtual community. Look at EQ2's solid fans... Geesh, they're getting Station Pass to play and never touch the other Sony games. They're buying 4 room half ass made adventure packs, and buying what I'd consider limited content expansion packs every 3 months. If people will pay for perks, then I think it's a solid business move. I myself personally would like this... 50 bucks for the game software and the agreements and all that. 9.99 subscription used to pay for my use of the game's world. Plus the promise that this cash will be used to improve upon the game and add content consistently. Once a year or so, 35 to 45 bucks for an expansion that truly expands upon the product by adding on a scale of 5:8, or rather at least more than 50% of the existing game's worth of content. Or even used to introduce new gaming options and what not. That'd be in my perfect world as a consumer. Character slots would be like 20 slots per server per account. LoL Cuz I'm an alt addict. But eh, if they're willing and people are willing to throw cash around for perks that doesn't really affect the more casual gamers playing for actual 'gaming / immersion' reasons then bah bah lil' sheep.
I kill other players because they're smarter than AI, sometimes.
"Well being narrowminded isn't as bad as being a demonizer. LoL"
Racist and biggots are narrowminded people. I'll take the demonizer any day, thanks.
"Anywho.. I'd never partake in a ticketed event. It seems to me you're paying cash to meet developers who seem to think they're rock stars in their own game. I've met real celebrities for free on many occassions here in Washington, D.C. so I don't think a buck or even 5 bucks to talk to creative controlled gaming nerds is worth the price of admission, but that is the beauty of choice."
Glad to see you have done your research. Now, how about trying to find out what Simu does in their current games. It's nothing related to what you indicate above.
"I'm looking forward to playing the game, despite progress casting some serious doubts on my first impression of what the developers have said before and what they're saying now and as beta progresses what they say then."
What's changed? What have they gone back on, with their development plans? Besided the timeline for release.
"[The apostrophe] assists in marking the possessives of all nouns and many pronouns." "For the plural of abbreviations, an apostrophe is widely regarded as incorrect, so CDs is preferable to CDs."
Originally posted by KaotiX If they EVER implement a tiered payment system, even tickets, items/gold selling or any other way to benefit in game with real money (and that includes free and "premium" accounts, like in Tibia), I am NOT going to play. Simple as that.
But that's just me.
Narrow minded people that judge something that; one does not exist, two has not been defined and three you have not tried, deserve to mis out on "more fun, less tedium".
Jonny.
It's been defined in DR and GS. It has neither been confirmed of denied for HJ (which is to say: we're thinking about it, but we want to see what kind of reaction it's going to get). And I dont need to take a nail gun and shoot a 2 inch penny nail into my forehead to see if I'll like it or not. And if they do have Tired pricing they should change their slogan to "more money, more fun."
It seems most of these people are not understanding what this means. This isn't like SOE. You can't buy Wyr, plats, armor, and characters with real money.
In Simu games, you had to pay per character you made. So if you wanted to make upward of ten characters, you would be paying... uh, $2.50 extra each. By getting Premium, you got those characters slots included in the monthly cost and saved a bit. The special little house you didn't get until you kept the Premium account for 3 months.
Yes, it was a way for Simu to get a little extra money. Were the people that couldn't afford Premium missing out on anything? Well, they probably stuck with one character and likely got further, faster than the people shelling out cash to feed their alt addiction. The private hunting areas were really only around Crossing (that I could find), which were generally congested. That was just to make life a little easier. Once you get up there in Circle (level) you'd find that most everywhere you go it's pretty dead, unless you're right outside one of the cities. You'd occasionally see a Trader go past with his beautiful, beautiful carts filled with plat earning goods. Okay, more than occasionally. Always. Like a stream of them in some places.
Er, where was I? Oh, right. There was no advantage to having Premium. Since I doubt they'll be putting in a 'pay per character' system again, there'll be less need for Premium. I can see them doing Platinum for those RPers that want it. Simu's always been good about answering their players' needs and if the players need to get away from the community as a whole, they'll probably make that possible... for the right price
So, if you don't want to see Platinum come into existence, be nice to the RPers.
What else, what else... if you're really worried that you'll be able to buy plats with real world money, you should give Traders a problem, not GMs. Damn Traders and their awesome, awesome stores full of pretty, pretty goods.
"Well being narrowminded isn't as bad as being a demonizer. LoL"
Racist and biggots are narrowminded people. I'll take the demonizer any day, thanks.
Well, Lil' Jonny, a demonizer is an activly judgemental biggot. Who uses words to accuse falsely for their own gain. I personally would rather have someone activly be truthful and ignorant than pretend to not be, yet be just as much so. Demonizers lie and hyperbole while passing judgement, which as far as I'm concerned is just as bad as reflecting hate.
"Anywho.. I'd never partake in a ticketed event. It seems to me you're paying cash to meet developers who seem to think they're rock stars in their own game. I've met real celebrities for free on many occassions here in Washington, D.C. so I don't think a buck or even 5 bucks to talk to creative controlled gaming nerds is worth the price of admission, but that is the beauty of choice."
Glad to see you have done your research. Now, how about trying to find out what Simu does in their current games. It's nothing related to what you indicate above.
Actually, Lil' Jonny, I was taking what has been said by both people asking and those replying that they have indeed partook in a ticketed event as done in their current games. Paying cash to play with the developers and GMs to get a renamed product just for participating seems celebrity to me. Or as I've stated, seems kind of useless since you're paying to to play with celebrity gamers. Which by all means folks can do, but I'd rather seem the devs rake in some extra cash by having a bake sale. In fact, I'd totally make Lady Fingers for a Simu bake sale. Here, I'll get the dictionary entry for the word celebrity for you. celebrity n 1: a widely known person; "he was a baseball celebrity" [syn: famous person] 2: the state or quality of being widely honored and acclaimed [syn: fame, renown] [ant: infamy] What else should I reasearch? What am I misunderstanding for you to even make a comment on? To even quote what I posted? What more is there to a ticketed even than what's been explained here. Why defend it so blindly? Give some content man, or ya know shhhssshhh..
"I'm looking forward to playing the game, despite progress casting some serious doubts on my first impression of what the developers have said before and what they're saying now and as beta progresses what they say then."
What's changed? What have they gone back on, with their development plans? Besided the timeline for release.
I've explained this elsewhere. Some of the developer journals have made comments about game play and the setting that seem different than the initial 'selling' of the product. I see, Lil' Jonny, you like to keep things nice and simple so I'll cite one example for you. The dev known as Steph around these parts put up a nice humourous post about how seeing the moving trees in EQ 1 would surprise her. It made her shocked and she nearly fell out of her chair, or may have actually I'm sorry I've not directly quoted it for you. She made a pledge a promise or some sort of p- word that nothing too shocking like that will make it into the game. In fact, HJ will be a game catered to be easy to play without any real technical skill or whatever. Simple and lacking in surprises is exactly the definition that I understand 'tedium' to be. What's the famous quote stuck to Hero's Journey that posses the word 'tedium' Lil' Jonny? I'm certain you're familiar with it. Another example being, the double team manuvers and executing some of the spells in the game's demos seemed a tad 'twitch combat' based to me. But suddenly this new phrase in gamer's lexicon is either loved or loathed by the community. It seems loathed in HJ posts mostly, so are the rather interesting technical and tactical aspects that were promoted going to be removed because some people can't execute them well? These tid bits of information leaked unto me has had me cast doubts on what they'll actually execute as per what they've promoted the game to possibly be in the future. Will it sway the one way I don't want it to? Possibly. Will it sway to more of what I have in my mind it to be? Maybe. I cannot fully say yet. Nor can you. Nor can they really. That's the answer to your what's changed question. As far as their development plans are concerned you're reading more into my comment than what was there. Bad habit if you're trying to be a professional board troll/flamer. My first impression is with the dialogue from over a year ago the developers were slinging at E3 2005. A lot of the wording they're using now seems more fluffy nicey nice -isms other than actual facts and progress to solidify the aspects of the game they were selling in 2005.
Jonny - note: I've left Lil' Jonny quotes in bold.
Burn
I kill other players because they're smarter than AI, sometimes.
"Well, Lil' Jonny, a demonizer is an activly judgemental biggot. Who uses words to accuse falsely for their own gain. I personally would rather have someone activly be truthful and ignorant than pretend to not be, yet be just as much so. Demonizers lie and hyperbole while passing judgement, which as far as I'm concerned is just as bad as reflecting hate." ~eburn
Lets see. I'll give you one point for using the word bigot in your first sentence. Trying to tie the definition demonizer and bigot together, huh? LOL. However, you lose 9 points for assuming the MMORGP community is not smart enough to understand the difference between a bigot and a demonizer. Since your trying to relate the two, in an effort to make a point, let me help you. Demonizing is just one of the many things a bigot does to a group or individual. It's like a tool the bigot used to perpetuate their blind hate. Demonizing can take many forums to achieve some type of gain and the accusations don't need to be false. The press (FOX NEW) demonizes people (Democrats) all the time. Sometimes they lie, some times they just expose the truth. Sometimes they demonize people by running a negative story over and over and over, to pound it into the heads of viewers. Girls in HS. I bet we can't even count the number of teen movies that have examples of a girl or group of girls demonizing another group or person. Referring to someone as Lil' in an effort to make yourself feel better or give your point creditability .... Demonizing! Sorry, but the shoe fits.
"Actually, Lil' Jonny, I was taking what has been said by both people asking and those replying that they have indeed partook in a ticketed event as done in their current games. Paying cash to play with the developers and GMs to get a renamed product just for participating seems celebrity to me.Demonizer! Please post the reference to where someone told you they simply renamed products for ticketed events. Or are you just, "...uses words to accuse falsely for their own gain." demonizing ticketed events? Also, someone saying that GM's are more involved in ticketed events means that they play chars that conduct wedding, run traveling merchants, run brand new systems, etc... It's great you met a celebrity, I'm very happy for you. It has zero relation to GM's and ticketed events though.
Or as I've stated, seems kind of useless since you're paying to to play with celebrity gamers. Which by all means folks can do, but I'd rather seem the devs rake in some extra cash by having a bake sale. In fact, I'd totally make Lady Fingers for a Simu bake sale. Here, I'll get the dictionary entry for the word celebrity for you. celebrity n 1: a widely known person; "he was a baseball celebrity" [syn: famous person] 2: the state or quality of being widely honored and acclaimed [syn: fame, renown] [ant: infamy] What else should I reasearch?" Their website, perhaps? I find it sad that I would even have to suggest that. How lazy can you be? You could also stop ignoring the post of people that have corrected your skewed perceptions of what they have said.
What am I misunderstanding for you to even make a comment on?You are demonizing and product and a company with second hand, hearsay, information. The best part is, people here and in other forums, that actually play their current games, have posted to correct these mis-statements and you simply choose to ignore them.
To even quote what I posted? What more is there to a ticketed even than what's been explained here. I'm not here to do your homework, but I will correct you when you start spouting off crap that is just simply wrong.
Why defend it so blindly?Not so much trying to defend Sium or HJ. Just pointing out that you don't know what you are talking about when it comes to ticketed events. Reading your comparisons of celebrities to GM for Sium ticketed events is like reading a book on sex written by a virgin.
Give some content man, or ya know shhhssshhh.. Make statements about things you have actual experience with, or ya know .....! By the way, why did you not cut and paste the definition for Demonizer? Is it because Dictionary.com and OED.com don't even list your definition?
I've explained this elsewhere. Some of the developer journals have made comments about game play and the setting that seem different than the initial 'selling' of the product. I see, Lil' Jonny, you like to keep things nice and simple so I'll cite one example for you. The dev known as Steph around these parts put up a nice humourous post about how seeing the moving trees in EQ 1 would surprise her. It made her shocked and she nearly fell out of her chair, or may have actually I'm sorry I've not directly quoted it for you. She made a pledge a promise or some sort of p- word So was it a promise or wasn't it? Just like bigot and demonizer, pledge and promise are not interchangeable, no matter how badly you want them to be. A pledge my imply a promise, but it may also imply that someone will simply do their best "No promises!".
that nothing too shocking like that will make it into the game. In fact, HJ will be a game catered to be easy to play without any real technical skill or whatever. Simple and lacking in surprises is exactly the definition that I understand 'tedium' to be. Simple = Tedium? Oh man I can't stop laughing. Please cut and paste that definition when get a chance, that's rich. Just because you choose to use an odd ball definition does in no way indicate that Simu or Steph went back on their word. They also qualify every post with some tag about "subject to change" and if you knew anything at all about development, you would understand the need for this qualification.
What's the famous quote stuck to Hero's Journey that posses the word 'tedium' Lil' Jonny? I'm certain you're familiar with it. Another example being, the double team manuvers and executing some of the spells in the game's demos seemed a tad 'twitch combat' based to me. But suddenly this new phrase in gamer's lexicon is either loved or loathed by the community. It seems loathed in HJ posts mostly, so are the rather interesting technical and tactical aspects that were promoted going to be removed because some people can't execute them well? This is wonderful. Your perceptions of what you saw was wrong, so they, Simu, have mislead you? Devs were posting about their dislike of twitch combat before those demo movies were released. I guess you just don't read the HJ forums. Oh yea, to lazy to research, we established that already. Where did you see that combat manuvers were removed from the game? Where did you see that they were ever intended to be quick twitch.
I believe a lot of your issues stem from making assumptions and putting forth zero effort to validate or disprove those assumptions.
These tid bits of information leaked unto me has had me cast doubts on what they'll actually execute as per what they've promoted the game to possibly be in the future. Will it sway the one way I don't want it to? Possibly. Will it sway to more of what I have in my mind it to be? Maybe. I cannot fully say yet. Nor can you. Nor can they really. That's the answer to your what's changed question. As far as their development plans are concerned you're reading more into my comment than what was there. Bad habit if you're trying to be a professional board troll/flamer.Taking a position that is different than yours is trolling? Come on. As for flaming, I believe it is you that chose to use the term "Lil' in an effort to portray me as less than or beneath you. Calling someone a troll/flamer is also flaming. You really need to work on how you define terms.
Lil' Jonny
----------------------
"Simple and lacking in surprises is exactly the definition that I understand 'tedium' to be." ~eburn
Originally posted by raccoon Er, where was I? Oh, right. There was no advantage to having Premium. Since I doubt they'll be putting in a 'pay per character' system again, there'll be less need for Premium. I can see them doing Platinum for those RPers that want it. Simu's always been good about answering their players' needs and if the players need to get away from the community as a whole, they'll probably make that possible... for the right price
So, if you don't want to see Platinum come into existence, be nice to the RPers.
What else, what else... if you're really worried that you'll be able to buy plats with real world money, you should give Traders a problem, not GMs. Damn Traders and their awesome, awesome stores full of pretty, pretty goods.
There are so many problems with such a system though. Let us assume that "Platinum" servers are special ones like you are envisioning, and that lots of the RPers pay for Platinum and go there to get away from the uberleets. I can see this happening, and I could understand the players' motivation for it.
However, not every RPer is going to be able to go to such monetary lengths. If you're talking about a substantially larger amount of $$, now you have fractured the RP community into the "haves" (on the Platinum server(s)), and the have nots (on the regular servers). I don't see the idea of splitting up the RP community into subsets as a good one. In most MMORPGs there are maybe, maybe, enough real RP-oriented people to make one full RP server. In games that have an RP server ,this seems to work reasonably well. In games that refuse to make official RP servers, even though the players will try to organize unofficial ones, it never works, and the community of RPers gets split into tiny fractions across ALL the servers.
If they are serious about wanting to "put the RP back in MMORPGs" then they need to promote and encourage roleplay, and dividing the RP audience up based on who can afford the "RP server" and who cannot is not going to do that. It's going to fracture the audience. It's going to breed resentment amongst those who are true RPers but don't have the extra cash to spend on a platinum server.
This whole thing sounds money-grabbing to me. You can play the basic game, but they take a few VERY desirable elements of the game -- not necessary but very popular and highly prized by gamers, such as private housing, special zones, access to events, and focused special servers like RP-oriented srevers -- and make those very expensive. Thus you can get a base experience for the same price in HJ as the full experience costs in every other game... and then if you want the full experience, you can double, triple, or quadruple the base price. It's ugly. It's hideous. I cannot support such a scheme. And I probably will not, if they implement it. I'll go find another game to play instead, most likely. Because I'm for damn sure not paying them +$25 or something just to have a private house.
Actually, Lil' Jonny is from a series of jokes where a young boy is often put into a position where he believes his quick wit can solve a problem or situation he's facing. Seems, somewhat befitting for how snide a jerk you are. Also you messing up your color scheme and quotes just befits my demonizing bit. You're a shallow lil' fanboi of a man, but I'll entertain you anyway.
te·di·um (td-m) n. The quality or condition of being tedious; tediousness or boredom.
[Latin taedium, from taedre, to weary.]
tedium n 1: the feeling of being bored by something tedious [syn: boredom, ennui] 2: dullness owing to length or slowness [syn: tediousness, tiresomeness]
Now, to me the word simple leads to the word predictable which brings us back to dullness owing to length or slowness, which of course is a definition of tedium. I'm more of an avid chess or even poker player, but... Checkers is a great simple game that most people can easily grasp the concept and rules of and enjoy for hours, days, some folks have devoted their lives to being great at checkers. Would it not be safe to assume for a majority otherwise the game gets a bit tedious? So to defeat tedium, HJ will have to toss some surprises and difficulty at a rather well weathered and seasoned lot of gamers. Is that what they're offering? With Wyr? Comments about how crazy the staff is? A ticketed event where indeed, just a couple posts above this was said by Elnator and since you're a fan of titles he's somewhat elite!
Out of curiosity, have you ever played one of their games before? I have. The ticketted events drop unique items you can't get anywhere else but they are no better than other items (in fact many have exactly the same stats just different descriptions (remember their other online games are text based). If that holds true I have no problem with it.
If someone plays a ticketed event for $5 and gets "Dargnath the goblin slayer" sword that's just the same as any other +3 vs goblins sword in the game then I could care less. I wouldn't even care if it looked way cooler as long as I could get an equivalent item elsewhere (And that's the way it typically worked)
There were other rewards that you couldn't get but they were temporary things that only lasted X time. Now obviously by the wording of the text one would assume he has partook in one of these previous ticketed events.
Lil' Jonny, just stop posting unless you're going to share some actual wisdom or wit or even insight to the subject being discussed. You messed up my color quote scheme. You've hyperboled your own version of your own words and have failed to cite any solid examples once again. If you have played a Simu game before and enjoyed a ticketed event then by all means explain to us how awesome it is and why anyone worried about it is as lame and not as cool as Lil' Jonny as you seem to wish to explain it to be. What have you read to and can quote to prove that simple isn't going to be tedious? Please, quote whatever I have to say but this time explain. Or once again... SHHHHSSHH.. Or am I demonizing you by asking you to back up your accusations? Do you work for MSNBC?
I kill other players because they're smarter than AI, sometimes.
[quote][i]Originally posted by eburn[/i] [b]Actually, Lil' Jonny is from a series of jokes where a young boy is often put into a position where he believes his quick wit can solve a problem or situation he's facing. Seems, somewhat befitting for how snide a jerk you are.Also you messing up your color scheme and quotes just befits my demonizing bit. You're a shallow lil' fanboi of a man, but I'll entertain you anyway. More name calling. I do enjoy how the interweb bring out such bravado in you. Nice and safe behind your keyboard. Keep the insults rolling tough guy. Your spouting off a bunch of crap that is false and I am a "snide jerk" for pointing out you don't know what the hell your talking about? Perhaps, I can live with that. You should take time to read your post after you write them though. "Shallow", "how snide a jerk you are.", "fanboi", "Lil'", compairing someone you dont know to a child. Great ways to make a point about the maturaity level of someone else. Stop being so deamonizing and throw in a racist comments so i can put you in the bigot camp. You did say you would prefer bigot to demonizer, so put your money where you mouth is. Actually don't, just makeing the point that you are a hypocrit. Say one thing, do another.
[b]te·di·um[/b] (td-m) n. The quality or condition of being tedious; tediousness or boredom. [Latin taedium, from taedre, to weary.] [b]tedium [/b]n 1: the feeling of being bored by something tedious [syn: boredom, ennui] 2: dullness owing to length or slowness [syn: tediousness, tiresomeness] I'll link you to simple since there's a lot there to chew on. [url=http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/simple]As for my no surprises / no shocks opinion based indeed upon what developers have stated recently as opposed to a year ago I'll use the word ; predictable. [url=http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/predictable] Now, to me the word simple leads to the word predictable which brings us back to dullness owing to length or slowness, which of course is a definition of tedium. I'm more of an avid chess or even poker player, but... Checkers is a great simple game that most people can easily grasp the concept and rules of and enjoy for hours, days, some folks have devoted their lives to being great at checkers. Would it not be safe to assume for a majority otherwise the game gets a bit tedious? So to defeat tedium, HJ will have to toss some surprises and difficulty at a rather well weathered and seasoned lot of gamers. Is that what they're offering? Since your a chess player weill go with that. As Steph indicated in her post and I will quote her since you were to lazy to do so:
"
Simple to play may seem easy, but there are nine and sixty ways of constructing roleplaying games, and not every single one of them is right. If it seems to you like sometimes designers hate players...well, we're human, and some of us are here for good, and some of us are here for awesome. I don't think designers intentionally make games to torture people, but I do think they can get attached to the shiny ingenuity of an idea. Which is great -- if the idea is a good one. Otherwise....
Not taxing my patience usually goes hand in hand with "simple to play", but gameplay isn't always the cause of this particular ailment. Other players -- and an inability to deal with them -- can seriously harsh my buzz when I'm playing. I especially love games that allow higher level players to gank lower level ones as they come out of character creation. And by "love" I mean "Holy canolis, what were they thinking?" Followed immediately by searching for the uninstall shortcut."
Chess is a damn simple game to PLAY. One peice moves one way, one moves another way. To win at chess is very different story. The above statements would seem to indicate that Simu intends to make it easy for people to be able to play the game. Does she state that game it self should be simple. The first would indicate your interface to the world, the second indicating the complexity of combat stratigy, solving quest, etc ... Now again, here is the kicker. You read that as, ""Simple and lacking in surprises is exactly the definition that I understand 'tedium' to be." ~eburn. Did you bother to read #2? In another article they discuss how kill task can be very boring. Did you bother to read that? Is it safe to say you don't play checkers because it taxes your patience and you find it boring?
With Wyr? Comments about how crazy the staff is? A ticketed event where indeed, just a couple posts above this was said by Elnator and since you're a fan of titles he's somewhat elite! Out of curiosity, have you ever played one of their games before? I have. The ticketted events drop unique items you can't get anywhere else but they are no better than other items (in fact many have exactly the same stats just different descriptions (remember their other online games are text based). If that holds true I have no problem with it.If someone plays a ticketed event for $5 and gets "Dargnath the goblin slayer" sword that's just the same as any other +3 vs goblins sword in the game then I could care less. I wouldn't even care if it looked way cooler as long as I could get an equivalent item elsewhere (And that's the way it typically worked)There were other rewards that you couldn't get but they were temporary things that only lasted X time. Now obviously by the wording of the text one would assume he has partook in one of these previous ticketed events.Lil' Jonny, just stop posting unless you're going to share some actual wisdom or wit or even insight to the subject being discussed. Your post was talking about interacting with GM's and compairing them to rock stars. So whats your point? Your post had nothing to do with the above statements or how ticketed events acutally work. Your wrong in your assumptions of how ticketed events work. Your to damn lazy to go find that out for yourself. Now you want to act like an donky because someone has taken the time to point out that you have no clue about the topic. I know, you read it on the interweb somewhere, so it must be true. I've done at least six ticketed events over the years and you have not a a clue. Not even close to a clue. You talk about wisdom from your vast expereince with these events? NO! You have NO F@#!#$ idea how they work. Wisdom and Insight are no where to be found in your post on this topic. Just lots of demonizing.
You messed up my color quote scheme. And you were still able to figure it out what I intended. Neato. I'll go fix it later.
You've hyperboled your own version of your own words and have failed to cite any solid examples once again. If you have played a Simu game before and enjoyed a ticketed event then by all means explain to us how awesome it is and why anyone worried about it is as lame and not as cool as Lil' Jonny as you seem to wish to explain it to be. Perhaps this is where you should have stated, instead of running off at the fingers about how they would be a waist of your time and money. You instead chose the route of showing your ignorance. And stop with the child like insults already. Grow up, your obvisuly not stupid or young, so you have no excue for not maintaining a mature conversation.
What have you read to and can quote to prove that simple isn't going to be tedious? I asked for quotes from you in my prior post. Get those done first. You make claims people said things I don't believe they have. Lets see it. "Paying cash to play with the developers and GMs to get a renamed product just for participating ...." Post the quote you got this from. I'm sure it came from someone that has played their games, gone on their events, right?
Please, quote whatever I have to say but this time explain. Your too lazy to research and did not bother to ask up front, so why should I bother letting you know of my experiences with their ticketed events now? You have yet to back up any of your claims and I have already posted quotes disputing many of your assumptions. Time for you to put up or shut up. We have established your pool of knowledge on ticketed events is quite shallow.
Or once again... SHHHHSSHH.. Or am I demonizing you by asking you to back up your accusations? Where did you post the defiiniton to that word? Oh yea, you didn't. Two of the major online dictionarys don't list your definition and judging by the question, you don't seem to understand your definition either. Do you work for MSNBC? [/b][/quote] No.
Lil' Jonny
----------------------------------------------------------- "Simple and lacking in surprises is exactly the definition that I understand 'tedium' to be." ~eburn
Demonizer and demonized, need reference? Look up demonize. The suffix -er, you should look that up as well. I'm not going to teach basic English to you. But I do recommend you pick it up while you're being your Lil' Jonny self. Also bigot would place blame or hate on someone without example. You kid, are full of example.
Quote the apeman: Your too lazy to research and did not bother to ask up front, so why should I bother letting you know of my experiences with their ticketed events now?
That'd be; You're too lazy to research and did not bother to ask up front, so why should I bother letting you know of my experience with their ticketed events?
I made assumptions and you've done nothing but flame and act as an ass towards folks discussing the subject. You've not contributed to changing these misconceptions you recite. So don't. By not it's rather obvious you've never participated in the other Simu games or the events that are being discussed.
As for my rock star celebrity statement, that's the selling point brought up a couple of times now. I'd quote the entire thread but you have it at your disposal. It seems a ticketed event is just a way to make some extra cash as a means to interact with the staff of the game (a plus to some folks) and acquire phat loot (a plus to others) and I've stated that I'd never pay to rejoice in someone's celebrity. Meeting GMs is not a priority of mine when I play a game. I'm sorry if the big words I've used have baffled and *here's another one with a meaning probably not hosted online but I have faith you'll be able to figure it out, maybe* cornfuzzled you Lil' Jonny. If you take that as an insult, then I'm sorry you are indeed a shallow and ignorant human being.
Trust me, I've never expected useful or even slightly witty responses from you. I'm more than willing to wait and see what the developers have to say.
Also chess is not a simple game to play. There are folks familiar with a lot of the mechanics and still don't realize that the pawn can only take a piece in a diagonal in front of them or even exactly how L shaped a knight can move. Also in your quote to me, that statement from Steph does not include her quote about the trees in EverQuest, post it as well if you wish to seem flawless and complete in thrashing my opinion. That should be an interesting evening for a pro-troll such as yourself. Plus I never said I had wisdom or insight to share about the ticketed events, putting words into someone's mouth and misconstruing what they have to say / ask? Oi, you're a lost cause man. Yes, I'll demonized you to the entire community now. Jgankum aka Lil' Jonny is useless. Where you could have spread insight to others you've decided to murder my quote technique and just be a complete and utter failing attempt at being a pain.
Go to school Lil' Jonny, be something special when you grow up. Put that misplaced energy to something useful. Since you've proven to just be a faiboi mark out for the game and have nothing useful to contribute, I'd suggest finding another thread to troll.
I kill other players because they're smarter than AI, sometimes.
Eburn and Jgankum... you 2 are turning what was an interesting discussion thread into an annoying personal flame-fest. Can't you two just agree to disagree and drop it?
"Demonizer and demonized, need reference? Look up demonize. The suffix -er, you should look that up as well. I'm not going to teach basic English to you. But I do recommend you pick it up while you're being your Lil' Jonny self."
As I said, two major online dictionarys don't even list the definition you were trying to use. This is why you can't and wont post it yourself. I'll learn English when you learn to read.
"Also bigot would place blame or hate on someone without example. You kid, are full of example."
Again with the reading or lack their of "... WITHOUT EXAMPLE". You just fail to see that your the example. YOU were to lazy to do the research, thus you are my example. Next time just leave off that last bit in your definition and you will be right. I do blame you for being lazy.
"I made assumptions and you've done nothing but flame and act as an ass towards folks discussing the subject."
You really need to stop with all the name calling, while at the same time trying to claim you are being flamed.
"You've not contributed to changing these misconceptions you recite. So don't. By not it's rather obvious you've never participated in the other Simu games or the events that are being discussed."
Why should I bother trying to change your views, when all you do is insult people? It not a misconception. You didn't know what you were talking about with reguard to ticketed events and now your upset it was pointed out.
"So don't. By not it's rather obvious you've never participated in the other Simu games or the events that are being discussed."
Because I don't cater to you? That's your proof I don't play their games? Yes yes, your logic is astounding.
"As for my rock star celebrity statement, that's the selling point brought up a couple of times now. I'd quote the entire thread but you have it at your disposal. It seems a ticketed event is just a way to make some extra cash as a means to interact with the staff of the game (a plus to some folks) and acquire phat loot (a plus to others) and I've stated that I'd never pay to rejoice in someone's celebrity. Meeting GMs is not a priority of mine when I play a game. I'm sorry if the big words I've used have baffled and *here's another one with a meaning probably not hosted online but I have faith you'll be able to figure it out, maybe* cornfuzzled you Lil' Jonny."
Again, your wrong. It's been posted in the past as to why and how you are wrong. The thread is here for you to read. Or go to the HJ forums. Or the heroshall.com. Both contain civil and interesting discussions on the topic.
"If you take that as an insult, then I'm sorry you are indeed a shallow and ignorant human being."
You not seeing what you post as insulting, I would have to say the same of you.
"Also chess is not a simple game to play."
A three year old can learn to play chess. Again, playing to win is the hard part.
I don't much care what Simu decedes to do with tiered pricing. It's not a big deal in their current games and I doubt they would make it one in HJ. They are a good company and always keep the players best interest in mind and you have throughly reminded me why I like their forums so much. Since this is bothering other posters i'll no longer respond to your post from here on out. Have fun with the last word.
No official statement has been made regarding how the pricing structure will play out. We haven't even discussed a base fee or software purchase price. Speculating what we're going to do is futile. We all should know by now what happens when you ASSUME.
Simutronics is a business. The purpose of a business is to make money. Never trust anyone that offers you a product or service and claims that it it for any reason other than making money.
Most products and services are offered on a tiered system.
Questions:
1. Why should gaming companies be held to a different standard than other? You will pay more for better or more features on meals, hotels, airfare, television, telephone, automobiles, homes, apartments, education etc. , why not games?
2. If HJ offers a little more than other games do at the base rate, why would you not play because they offer even more for a larger fee?
LOL. Ok, bottom line. People will either buy the game to play if it is tiered priced, or they won't. It'sperceptionfolks. No one is going to want the game if they perceive it to be a game where they have to pay more to get the perks they can get in another game that seems to be just as much fun to play as HJ, and doesn't require extra cost. We vote with our wallets at the time of release. Period.
At this time, we don't know what Simutronics will do. Why count chickens before they hatch. If tiered pricing is introduced after release, then we could have something to rant about. Personally, I will watch which way the wind seems to be blowing. If I see there might be a chance of tiered pricing down the line, I doubt very much I would buy the game.
Comments
And while you may think of it as money-grubbing, managing any sort of game that has thousands of people on it at a time costs a large amount of money, and sometimes just the base subscriptions aren't always enough for them to make a profit. With tiered pricing, they can even possibly afford to pay the armies of GMs a little something if they manage to stick around long enough.
*listens intently to Jenuviel* *nods*
Tiered pricing? Pay-per-view raids/event?! Absolutely disgusting.
The idea stinks. Why spread recources to cater for different budgets? make a brilliant game for one and all and you cant go wrong. This kind of capatilist approach disgusts me and if implemented i wont touch it out of principle. In fact the idea that the dev's have a history of this kind of elitist pricing system has already turned me off.
With so many awesome games on the horizon, why would a developer want to alienate a large portion of their market?! Utter madness.
Waiting For;
Aion
Warhammer Online
Darkfall
Project Offset
I wouldn't see it so much as alienation, as continuing what they've done thus far for years. While you all see tiered pricing as a bad thing, you have to look at the way it is set up.
- Prime - Your average $15/month account with access to everything that comes out and full gameplay.
- Premium - Everything that's included with prime, but small enhancements. (I.E. Private housing, special accesses to premium only areas (these were really few and rare in the MUDs that Simu had put out).)
- Platinum - Everything that Premium has plus GM interaction for more in depth RPG experience. While it sounds good, alot of players ignored this option. Many, however, wanted the smaller community and play time with the GMs.
There was also a fourth option that hasn't been mentioned. There was an option for a 'rule-less environment'. This was pretty much an open PVP server that anything could happen. Felt like killing someone cuz you're in a bad mood? Go ahead. Feel like gaining levels for your character via a script while you go out to dinner and a movie? Go ahead.
While you don't see these as viable alternatives, they have been pretty popular with the Simutronics crowds and loyalists for as long as they've been out. I had never once felt left out when I was paying for Prime access because any event that happened anywhere, happened in Prime, too. When I upgraded to Premium access, I did so I could have my own 'house' to relax in and have meeting with my friends in privacy, without finding some secluded area with little traffic. (Plus there was the shorter time it takes a bank transfer, which was good for since I was a nomad.)
As for the paid events, I've only ever done one. Did that make me any better or worse than any other player? Nope. I saw an item that you got IF YOU LOST the event, and I got it because we lost. That's the only reason. I wanted a pretty little item that you can charge with magic that looks like the guild crest of the guild I was in. That's about it. So really, if you're getting anything from the Simutronics paid events, it's something that does the exact same as 95% of the items in the game, but looks different.
But knowing how Simutronics works, I can say that even if you don't participate in the pay to play mini-games, you can still participate in the worldwide events, the constant changes, and even the occassional GM to show up and rip your character's spine out once in awhile.
I do feel, that for starting out, Simu should hold off on the tiering for a little bit. Just long enough to have a group of gamers who are enjoying the experience. That way they don't feel as though they are alienating people just because they see multi tiered options for a game that's just beginning. I mean what's the point of a Platinum access of a game that's just released? Everyone's already starting from scratch and moving towards the same goal (finding out about the world and going through character customization).
C
If they EVER implement a tiered payment system, even tickets, items/gold selling or any other way to benefit in game with real money (and that includes free and "premium" accounts, like in Tibia), I am NOT going to play. Simple as that.
But that's just me.
From Wikipedia:
"[The apostrophe] assists in marking the possessives of all nouns and many pronouns."
"For the plural of abbreviations, an apostrophe is widely regarded as incorrect, so CDs is preferable to CDs."
Narrow minded people that judge something that; one does not exist, two has not been defined and three you have not tried, deserve to mis out on "more fun, less tedium".
Jonny.
Well being narrowminded isn't as bad as being a demonizer. LoL
Anywho.. I'd never partake in a ticketed event. It seems to me you're paying cash to meet developers who seem to think they're rock stars in their own game. I've met real celebrities for free on many occassions here in Washington, D.C. so I don't think a buck or even 5 bucks to talk to creative controlled gaming nerds is worth the price of admission, but that is the beauty of choice.
I'm looking forward to playing the game, despite progress casting some serious doubts on my first impression of what the developers have said before and what they're saying now and as beta progresses what they say then.
Other games out there make you pay for fluff benifits and what not and indeed it seems there's a lot of folks out there dead set on staying with the status quo in their virtual community. Look at EQ2's solid fans... Geesh, they're getting Station Pass to play and never touch the other Sony games. They're buying 4 room half ass made adventure packs, and buying what I'd consider limited content expansion packs every 3 months. If people will pay for perks, then I think it's a solid business move.
I myself personally would like this...
50 bucks for the game software and the agreements and all that.
9.99 subscription used to pay for my use of the game's world. Plus the promise that this cash will be used to improve upon the game and add content consistently.
Once a year or so, 35 to 45 bucks for an expansion that truly expands upon the product by adding on a scale of 5:8, or rather at least more than 50% of the existing game's worth of content. Or even used to introduce new gaming options and what not.
That'd be in my perfect world as a consumer. Character slots would be like 20 slots per server per account. LoL Cuz I'm an alt addict.
But eh, if they're willing and people are willing to throw cash around for perks that doesn't really affect the more casual gamers playing for actual 'gaming / immersion' reasons then bah bah lil' sheep.
I kill other players because they're smarter than AI, sometimes.
"Well being narrowminded isn't as bad as being a demonizer. LoL"
Racist and biggots are narrowminded people. I'll take the demonizer any day, thanks.
"Anywho.. I'd never partake in a ticketed event. It seems to me you're paying cash to meet developers who seem to think they're rock stars in their own game. I've met real celebrities for free on many occassions here in Washington, D.C. so I don't think a buck or even 5 bucks to talk to creative controlled gaming nerds is worth the price of admission, but that is the beauty of choice."
Glad to see you have done your research. Now, how about trying to find out what Simu does in their current games. It's nothing related to what you indicate above.
"I'm looking forward to playing the game, despite progress casting some serious doubts on my first impression of what the developers have said before and what they're saying now and as beta progresses what they say then."
What's changed? What have they gone back on, with their development plans? Besided the timeline for release.
Jonny
From Wikipedia:
"[The apostrophe] assists in marking the possessives of all nouns and many pronouns."
"For the plural of abbreviations, an apostrophe is widely regarded as incorrect, so CDs is preferable to CDs."
Narrow minded people that judge something that; one does not exist, two has not been defined and three you have not tried, deserve to mis out on "more fun, less tedium".
Jonny.
It's been defined in DR and GS. It has neither been confirmed of denied for HJ (which is to say: we're thinking about it, but we want to see what kind of reaction it's going to get). And I dont need to take a nail gun and shoot a 2 inch penny nail into my forehead to see if I'll like it or not. And if they do have Tired pricing they should change their slogan to "more money, more fun."
In Simu games, you had to pay per character you made. So if you wanted to make upward of ten characters, you would be paying... uh, $2.50 extra each. By getting Premium, you got those characters slots included in the monthly cost and saved a bit. The special little house you didn't get until you kept the Premium account for 3 months.
Yes, it was a way for Simu to get a little extra money. Were the people that couldn't afford Premium missing out on anything? Well, they probably stuck with one character and likely got further, faster than the people shelling out cash to feed their alt addiction. The private hunting areas were really only around Crossing (that I could find), which were generally congested. That was just to make life a little easier. Once you get up there in Circle (level) you'd find that most everywhere you go it's pretty dead, unless you're right outside one of the cities. You'd occasionally see a Trader go past with his beautiful, beautiful carts filled with plat earning goods. Okay, more than occasionally. Always. Like a stream of them in some places.
Er, where was I? Oh, right. There was no advantage to having Premium. Since I doubt they'll be putting in a 'pay per character' system again, there'll be less need for Premium. I can see them doing Platinum for those RPers that want it. Simu's always been good about answering their players' needs and if the players need to get away from the community as a whole, they'll probably make that possible... for the right price
So, if you don't want to see Platinum come into existence, be nice to the RPers.
What else, what else... if you're really worried that you'll be able to buy plats with real world money, you should give Traders a problem, not GMs. Damn Traders and their awesome, awesome stores full of pretty, pretty goods.
I kill other players because they're smarter than AI, sometimes.
"Well, Lil' Jonny, a demonizer is an activly judgemental biggot. Who
uses words to accuse falsely for their own gain. I personally would
rather have someone activly be truthful and ignorant than pretend to
not be, yet be just as much so. Demonizers lie and hyperbole while
passing judgement, which as far as I'm concerned is just as bad as
reflecting hate."
~eburn
Lets see. I'll give you one point for using the word bigot in your
first sentence. Trying to tie the definition demonizer and bigot together, huh?
LOL. However, you lose 9 points for assuming the MMORGP community is
not smart enough to understand the difference between a bigot and a
demonizer. Since your trying to relate the two, in an effort to make a
point, let me help you. Demonizing is just one of the many things a
bigot does to a group or individual. It's like a tool the bigot used
to perpetuate their blind hate. Demonizing can take many forums to
achieve some type of gain and the accusations don't need to be false.
The press (FOX NEW) demonizes people (Democrats) all the time.
Sometimes they lie, some times they just expose the truth. Sometimes
they demonize people by running a negative story over and over and
over, to pound it into the heads of viewers. Girls in HS. I bet we
can't even count the number of teen movies that have examples of a girl
or group of girls demonizing another group or person. Referring to
someone as Lil' in an effort to make yourself feel better or give your
point creditability .... Demonizing! Sorry, but the shoe fits.
"Actually, Lil' Jonny, I was
taking what has been said by both people asking and those replying that
they have indeed partook in a ticketed event as done in their current
games. Paying cash to play with the developers and GMs to get a renamed
product just for participating seems celebrity to me.Demonizer! Please post the reference to where someone told you they
simply renamed products for ticketed events. Or are you just, "...uses
words to accuse falsely for their own gain." demonizing ticketed
events? Also, someone saying that GM's are more involved in ticketed
events means that they play chars that conduct wedding, run traveling
merchants, run brand new systems, etc... It's great you met a
celebrity, I'm very happy for you. It has zero relation to GM's and
ticketed events though.
Or as I've stated, seems kind of useless since you're paying to to play
with celebrity gamers. Which by all means folks can do, but I'd rather
seem the devs rake in some extra cash by having a bake sale. In fact,
I'd totally make Lady Fingers for a Simu bake sale. Here, I'll get the
dictionary entry for the word celebrity for you.
celebrity n 1: a widely known person; "he was a baseball celebrity"
[syn: famous person] 2: the state or quality of being widely honored
and acclaimed [syn: fame, renown] [ant: infamy]
What else should I reasearch?"
Their website, perhaps? I find it sad that I would even have to suggest
that. How lazy can you be? You could also stop ignoring the post of
people that have corrected your skewed perceptions of what they have
said.
What am I misunderstanding for you to even make a comment on?You are demonizing and product and a company with second hand, hearsay,
information. The best part is, people here and in other forums, that
actually play their current games, have posted to correct these mis-statements and you simply choose to ignore them.
To even quote what I posted? What more is there to a ticketed even than what's been explained here. I'm not here to do your homework, but I will correct you when you start spouting off crap that is just simply wrong.
Why defend it so blindly?Not so much trying to defend Sium or HJ. Just pointing out that you
don't know what you are talking about when it comes to ticketed events.
Reading your comparisons of celebrities to GM for Sium ticketed events
is like reading a book on sex written by a virgin.
Give some content man, or ya know shhhssshhh.. Make statements about things you have actual experience with, or ya know .....!
By the way, why did you not cut and paste the definition for Demonizer?
Is it because Dictionary.com and OED.com don't even list your
definition?
I've explained this
elsewhere. Some of the developer journals have made comments about game
play and the setting that seem different than the initial 'selling' of
the product. I see, Lil' Jonny, you like to keep things nice and simple
so I'll cite one example for you. The dev known as Steph around these
parts put up a nice humourous post about how seeing the moving trees in
EQ 1 would surprise her. It made her shocked and she nearly fell out of
her chair, or may have actually I'm sorry I've not directly quoted it
for you. She made a pledge a promise or some sort of p- word So
was it a promise or wasn't it? Just like bigot and demonizer,
pledge and
promise are not interchangeable, no matter how badly you want them to
be. A pledge my imply a promise, but it may also imply that someone will
simply do their best "No promises!".
that nothing too shocking like
that will make it into the game. In fact, HJ will be a game catered to
be easy to play without any real technical skill or whatever. Simple
and lacking in surprises is exactly the definition that I understand
'tedium' to be. Simple = Tedium? Oh man I can't stop laughing.
Please cut and paste that definition when get a chance, that's rich.
Just because you choose to use an odd ball definition does in no way
indicate that Simu or Steph went back on their word. They also qualify
every post with some tag about "subject to change" and if you knew
anything at all about development, you would understand the need for
this qualification.
What's the famous quote stuck to Hero's Journey that posses the word
'tedium' Lil' Jonny? I'm certain you're familiar with it. Another
example being, the double team manuvers and executing some of the
spells in the game's demos seemed a tad 'twitch combat' based to me.
But suddenly this new phrase in gamer's lexicon is either loved or
loathed by the community. It seems loathed in HJ posts mostly, so are
the rather interesting technical and tactical aspects that were
promoted going to be removed because some people can't execute them
well? This is wonderful. Your perceptions of what you saw was
wrong, so they, Simu, have mislead you? Devs were posting about their
dislike of twitch combat before those demo movies were released. I
guess you just don't read the HJ
forums. Oh yea, to lazy to research,
we established that already. Where did you see that combat manuvers
were removed from the game? Where did you see that they were ever
intended to be quick twitch.
I
believe a lot of your issues stem from making assumptions and putting
forth zero effort to validate or disprove those assumptions.
These tid bits of information leaked unto me has had me cast doubts on
what they'll actually execute as per what they've promoted the game to
possibly be in the future. Will it sway the one way I don't want it to?
Possibly. Will it sway to more of what I have in my mind it to be?
Maybe. I cannot fully say yet. Nor can you. Nor can they really. That's
the answer to your what's changed question.
As far as their development plans are concerned you're reading more
into my comment than what was there. Bad habit if you're trying to be a
professional board troll/flamer.Taking a position that is different than yours is trolling? Come on. As
for flaming, I believe it is you that chose to use the term "Lil' in an
effort to portray me as less than or beneath you. Calling someone a troll/flamer is also flaming. You really need to
work on how you define terms.
Lil' Jonny
----------------------
"Simple
and lacking in surprises is exactly the definition that I understand
'tedium' to be." ~eburn
However, not every RPer is going to be able to go to such monetary lengths. If you're talking about a substantially larger amount of $$, now you have fractured the RP community into the "haves" (on the Platinum server(s)), and the have nots (on the regular servers). I don't see the idea of splitting up the RP community into subsets as a good one. In most MMORPGs there are maybe, maybe, enough real RP-oriented people to make one full RP server. In games that have an RP server ,this seems to work reasonably well. In games that refuse to make official RP servers, even though the players will try to organize unofficial ones, it never works, and the community of RPers gets split into tiny fractions across ALL the servers.
If they are serious about wanting to "put the RP back in MMORPGs" then they need to promote and encourage roleplay, and dividing the RP audience up based on who can afford the "RP server" and who cannot is not going to do that. It's going to fracture the audience. It's going to breed resentment amongst those who are true RPers but don't have the extra cash to spend on a platinum server.
This whole thing sounds money-grabbing to me. You can play the basic game, but they take a few VERY desirable elements of the game -- not necessary but very popular and highly prized by gamers, such as private housing, special zones, access to events, and focused special servers like RP-oriented srevers -- and make those very expensive. Thus you can get a base experience for the same price in HJ as the full experience costs in every other game... and then if you want the full experience, you can double, triple, or quadruple the base price. It's ugly. It's hideous. I cannot support such a scheme. And I probably will not, if they implement it. I'll go find another game to play instead, most likely. Because I'm for damn sure not paying them +$25 or something just to have a private house.
C
Actually, Lil' Jonny is from a series of jokes where a young boy is often put into a position where he believes his quick wit can solve a problem or situation he's facing. Seems, somewhat befitting for how snide a jerk you are.
Also you messing up your color scheme and quotes just befits my demonizing bit. You're a shallow lil' fanboi of a man, but I'll entertain you anyway.
[Latin
taedium, fromtaed
re, to weary.]tedium n 1: the feeling of being bored by something tedious [syn: boredom, ennui] 2: dullness owing to length or slowness [syn: tediousness, tiresomeness]
I'll link you to simple since there's a lot there to chew on. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/simple
As for my no surprises / no shocks opinion based indeed upon what developers have stated recently as opposed to a year ago I'll use the word ; predictable. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/predictable
Now, to me the word simple leads to the word predictable which brings us back to dullness owing to length or slowness, which of course is a definition of tedium. I'm more of an avid chess or even poker player, but... Checkers is a great simple game that most people can easily grasp the concept and rules of and enjoy for hours, days, some folks have devoted their lives to being great at checkers. Would it not be safe to assume for a majority otherwise the game gets a bit tedious? So to defeat tedium, HJ will have to toss some surprises and difficulty at a rather well weathered and seasoned lot of gamers. Is that what they're offering? With Wyr? Comments about how crazy the staff is? A ticketed event where indeed, just a couple posts above this was said by Elnator and since you're a fan of titles he's somewhat elite!
Out of curiosity, have you ever played one of their games before? I have. The ticketted events drop unique items you can't get anywhere else but they are no better than other items (in fact many have exactly the same stats just different descriptions (remember their other online games are text based). If that holds true I have no problem with it.
If someone plays a ticketed event for $5 and gets "Dargnath the goblin slayer" sword that's just the same as any other +3 vs goblins sword in the game then I could care less. I wouldn't even care if it looked way cooler as long as I could get an equivalent item elsewhere (And that's the way it typically worked)
There were other rewards that you couldn't get but they were temporary things that only lasted X time.
Now obviously by the wording of the text one would assume he has partook in one of these previous ticketed events.
Lil' Jonny, just stop posting unless you're going to share some actual wisdom or wit or even insight to the subject being discussed. You messed up my color quote scheme. You've hyperboled your own version of your own words and have failed to cite any solid examples once again. If you have played a Simu game before and enjoyed a ticketed event then by all means explain to us how awesome it is and why anyone worried about it is as lame and not as cool as Lil' Jonny as you seem to wish to explain it to be. What have you read to and can quote to prove that simple isn't going to be tedious? Please, quote whatever I have to say but this time explain. Or once again... SHHHHSSHH.. Or am I demonizing you by asking you to back up your accusations? Do you work for MSNBC?
I kill other players because they're smarter than AI, sometimes.
[quote][i]Originally posted by eburn[/i]
[b]Actually, Lil' Jonny is from a series of jokes where a young boy is
often put into a position where he believes his quick wit can solve a
problem or situation he's facing. Seems, somewhat befitting for how
snide a jerk you are.Also you messing up your color scheme and quotes
just befits my demonizing bit. You're a shallow lil' fanboi of a man,
but I'll entertain you anyway.
More name calling. I do enjoy how the interweb bring out such bravado
in you. Nice and safe behind your keyboard. Keep the insults rolling
tough guy. Your spouting off a bunch of crap that is false and I am a
"snide jerk" for pointing out you don't know what the hell your talking
about? Perhaps, I can live with that. You should take time to read your
post after you write them though. "Shallow", "how snide a jerk you
are.", "fanboi", "Lil'", compairing someone you dont know to a child.
Great ways to make a point about the maturaity level of someone else.
Stop being so deamonizing and throw in a racist comments so i can put
you in the bigot camp. You did say you would prefer bigot to demonizer,
so put your money where you mouth is. Actually don't, just makeing the
point that you are a hypocrit. Say one thing, do another.
[b]te·di·um[/b] (td-m) n. The
quality or condition of being tedious; tediousness or boredom.
[Latin taedium, from taedre, to weary.]
[b]tedium [/b]n 1: the feeling of being bored by something tedious
[syn: boredom, ennui] 2: dullness owing to length or slowness [syn:
tediousness, tiresomeness]
I'll link you to simple since there's a lot there to chew on.
[url=http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/simple]As for my no
surprises / no shocks opinion based indeed upon what developers have
stated recently as opposed to a year ago I'll use the word ;
predictable. [url=http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/predictable]
Now, to me the word simple leads to the word predictable which brings
us back to dullness owing to length or slowness, which of course is a
definition of tedium. I'm more of an avid chess or even poker player,
but... Checkers is a great simple game that most people can easily
grasp the concept and rules of and enjoy for hours, days, some folks
have devoted their lives to being great at checkers. Would it not be
safe to assume for a majority otherwise the game gets a bit tedious? So
to defeat tedium, HJ will have to toss some surprises and difficulty at
a rather well weathered and seasoned lot of gamers. Is that what
they're offering?
Since your a chess player weill go with that. As Steph indicated in her
post and I will quote her since you were to lazy to do so:
"
- Simple to play may seem easy, but there are nine and sixty
- Not taxing my patience usually
Chess is a damn simple game to PLAY. One peice moves one way, one movesways of constructing roleplaying games, and not every single one of
them is right. If it seems to you like sometimes designers hate
players...well, we're human, and some of us are here for good, and some
of us are here for awesome. I don't think designers intentionally make
games to torture people, but I do think they can get attached to the
shiny ingenuity of an idea. Which is great -- if the idea is a good
one. Otherwise....
goes hand in hand with "simple to play", but gameplay isn't always the
cause of this particular ailment. Other players -- and an inability to
deal with them -- can seriously harsh my buzz when I'm playing. I
especially love games that allow higher level players to gank lower
level ones as they come out of character creation. And by "love" I mean
"Holy canolis, what were they thinking?" Followed immediately by
searching for the uninstall shortcut."
another way. To win at chess is very different story. The above
statements would seem to indicate that Simu intends to make it easy for
people to be able to play the game. Does she state that game it self
should be simple. The first would indicate your interface to the world,
the second indicating the complexity of combat stratigy, solving quest,
etc ... Now again, here is the kicker. You read that as, ""Simple
and lacking in surprises is exactly the definition that I understand
'tedium' to be." ~eburn. Did you bother to read #2? In another article
they discuss how kill task can be very boring. Did you bother to read
that? Is it safe to say you don't play checkers because it taxes your
patience and you find it boring?
With Wyr? Comments about how
crazy the staff is? A ticketed event where indeed, just a couple posts
above this was said by Elnator and since you're a fan of titles he's
somewhat elite!
Out of curiosity, have you ever played one of their games before? I
have. The ticketted events drop unique items you can't get anywhere
else but they are no better than other items (in fact many have exactly
the same stats just different descriptions (remember their other online
games are text based). If that holds true I have no problem with it.If
someone plays a ticketed event for $5 and gets "Dargnath the goblin
slayer" sword that's just the same as any other +3 vs goblins sword in
the game then I could care less. I wouldn't even care if it looked way
cooler as long as I could get an equivalent item elsewhere (And that's
the way it typically worked)There were other rewards that you couldn't
get but they were temporary things that only lasted X time. Now
obviously by the wording of the text one would assume he has partook in
one of these previous ticketed events.Lil' Jonny, just stop posting
unless you're going to share some actual wisdom or wit or even insight
to the subject being discussed. Your
post was talking about interacting with GM's and compairing them to
rock stars. So whats your point? Your post had nothing to do with the
above statements or how ticketed events acutally work. Your wrong in
your assumptions of how ticketed events work. Your to damn lazy to go
find that out for yourself. Now you want to act like an donky because
someone has taken the time to point out that you have no clue about the
topic. I know, you read it on the interweb somewhere, so it must be
true. I've done at least six ticketed events over the years and you
have not a a clue. Not even close to a clue. You talk about wisdom from
your vast expereince with these events? NO! You have NO F@#!#$ idea how
they work. Wisdom and Insight are no where to be found in your post on
this topic. Just lots of demonizing.
You messed up my color quote scheme. And you were still able to figure it out what I intended. Neato. I'll go fix it later.
You've hyperboled your own version of your own words and have
failed to cite any solid examples once again. If you have played a Simu
game before and enjoyed a ticketed event then by all means explain to
us how awesome it is and why anyone worried about it is as lame and not
as cool as Lil' Jonny as you seem to wish to explain it to be.
Perhaps this is where you should have stated, instead of running off at
the fingers about how they would be a waist of your time and money. You
instead chose the route of showing your ignorance. And stop with the
child like insults already. Grow up, your obvisuly not stupid or young,
so you have no excue for not maintaining a mature conversation.
What have you read to and can quote to prove that simple isn't going to be tedious?
I asked for quotes from you in my prior post. Get those done first. You
make claims people said things I don't believe they have. Lets see it. "Paying cash to play with the developers and GMs to get a renamed
product just for participating ...." Post the quote you got this from. I'm sure it came from someone that has played their games, gone on their events, right?
Please, quote whatever I have to say but this time explain. Your
too lazy to research and did not bother to ask up front, so why should
I bother letting you know of my experiences with their ticketed events
now? You have yet to back up any of your claims and I have already
posted quotes disputing many of your assumptions. Time for you to put
up or shut up. We have established your pool of knowledge on ticketed
events is quite shallow.
Or once again... SHHHHSSHH.. Or am I demonizing you by asking you to back up your accusations? Where
did you post the defiiniton to that word? Oh yea, you didn't. Two of
the major online dictionarys don't list your definition and judging by
the question, you don't seem to understand your definition either. Do you work for MSNBC?
[/b][/quote] No.
Lil' Jonny
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Simple
and lacking in surprises is exactly the definition that I understand
'tedium' to be." ~eburn
Demonizer and demonized, need reference? Look up demonize. The suffix -er, you should look that up as well. I'm not going to teach basic English to you. But I do recommend you pick it up while you're being your Lil' Jonny self. Also bigot would place blame or hate on someone without example. You kid, are full of example.
Quote the apeman: Your too lazy to research and did not bother to ask up front, so why should I bother letting you know of my experiences with their ticketed events now?
That'd be; You're too lazy to research and did not bother to ask up front, so why should I bother letting you know of my experience with their ticketed events?
I made assumptions and you've done nothing but flame and act as an ass towards folks discussing the subject. You've not contributed to changing these misconceptions you recite. So don't. By not it's rather obvious you've never participated in the other Simu games or the events that are being discussed.
As for my rock star celebrity statement, that's the selling point brought up a couple of times now. I'd quote the entire thread but you have it at your disposal. It seems a ticketed event is just a way to make some extra cash as a means to interact with the staff of the game (a plus to some folks) and acquire phat loot (a plus to others) and I've stated that I'd never pay to rejoice in someone's celebrity. Meeting GMs is not a priority of mine when I play a game. I'm sorry if the big words I've used have baffled and *here's another one with a meaning probably not hosted online but I have faith you'll be able to figure it out, maybe* cornfuzzled you Lil' Jonny.
If you take that as an insult, then I'm sorry you are indeed a shallow and ignorant human being.
Trust me, I've never expected useful or even slightly witty responses from you. I'm more than willing to wait and see what the developers have to say.
Also chess is not a simple game to play. There are folks familiar with a lot of the mechanics and still don't realize that the pawn can only take a piece in a diagonal in front of them or even exactly how L shaped a knight can move. Also in your quote to me, that statement from Steph does not include her quote about the trees in EverQuest, post it as well if you wish to seem flawless and complete in thrashing my opinion. That should be an interesting evening for a pro-troll such as yourself. Plus I never said I had wisdom or insight to share about the ticketed events, putting words into someone's mouth and misconstruing what they have to say / ask? Oi, you're a lost cause man. Yes, I'll demonized you to the entire community now. Jgankum aka Lil' Jonny is useless. Where you could have spread insight to others you've decided to murder my quote technique and just be a complete and utter failing attempt at being a pain.
Go to school Lil' Jonny, be something special when you grow up. Put that misplaced energy to something useful. Since you've proven to just be a faiboi mark out for the game and have nothing useful to contribute, I'd suggest finding another thread to troll.
I kill other players because they're smarter than AI, sometimes.
C
"Demonizer and demonized, need reference? Look up demonize. The suffix -er, you should look that up as well. I'm not going to teach basic English to you. But I do recommend you pick it up while you're being your Lil' Jonny self."
As I said, two major online dictionarys don't even list the definition you were trying to use. This is why you can't and wont post it yourself. I'll learn English when you learn to read.
"Also bigot would place blame or hate on someone without example. You kid, are full of example."
Again with the reading or lack their of "... WITHOUT EXAMPLE". You just fail to see that your the example. YOU were to lazy to do the research, thus you are my example. Next time just leave off that last bit in your definition and you will be right. I do blame you for being lazy.
"I made assumptions and you've done nothing but flame and act as an ass towards folks discussing the subject."
You really need to stop with all the name calling, while at the same time trying to claim you are being flamed.
"You've not contributed to changing these misconceptions you recite. So don't. By not it's rather obvious you've never participated in the other Simu games or the events that are being discussed."
Why should I bother trying to change your views, when all you do is insult people? It not a misconception. You didn't know what you were talking about with reguard to ticketed events and now your upset it was pointed out.
"So don't. By not it's rather obvious you've never participated in the other Simu games or the events that are being discussed."
Because I don't cater to you? That's your proof I don't play their games? Yes yes, your logic is astounding.
"As for my rock star celebrity statement, that's the selling point brought up a couple of times now. I'd quote the entire thread but you have it at your disposal. It seems a ticketed event is just a way to make some extra cash as a means to interact with the staff of the game (a plus to some folks) and acquire phat loot (a plus to others) and I've stated that I'd never pay to rejoice in someone's celebrity. Meeting GMs is not a priority of mine when I play a game. I'm sorry if the big words I've used have baffled and *here's another one with a meaning probably not hosted online but I have faith you'll be able to figure it out, maybe* cornfuzzled you Lil' Jonny."
Again, your wrong. It's been posted in the past as to why and how you are wrong. The thread is here for you to read. Or go to the HJ forums. Or the heroshall.com. Both contain civil and interesting discussions on the topic.
"If you take that as an insult, then I'm sorry you are indeed a shallow and ignorant human being."
You not seeing what you post as insulting, I would have to say the same of you.
"Also chess is not a simple game to play."
A three year old can learn to play chess. Again, playing to win is the hard part.
I don't much care what Simu decedes to do with tiered pricing. It's not a big deal in their current games and I doubt they would make it one in HJ. They are a good company and always keep the players best interest in mind and you have throughly reminded me why I like their forums so much. Since this is bothering other posters i'll no longer respond to your post from here on out. Have fun with the last word.
Jonny.
No official statement has been made regarding how the pricing structure will play out. We haven't even discussed a base fee or software purchase price. Speculating what we're going to do is futile. We all should know by now what happens when you ASSUME.
GM Illuminatis
World Builder
Hero's Journey
A few points and a few questions.
Simutronics is a business. The purpose of a business is to make money. Never trust anyone that offers you a product or service and claims that it it for any reason other than making money.
Most products and services are offered on a tiered system.
Questions:
1. Why should gaming companies be held to a different standard than other? You will pay more for better or more features on meals, hotels, airfare, television, telephone, automobiles, homes, apartments, education etc. , why not games?
2. If HJ offers a little more than other games do at the base rate, why would you not play because they offer even more for a larger fee?
LOL. Ok, bottom line. People will either buy the game to play if it is tiered priced, or they won't. It's perception folks. No one is going to want the game if they perceive it to be a game where they have to pay more to get the perks they can get in another game that seems to be just as much fun to play as HJ, and doesn't require extra cost. We vote with our wallets at the time of release. Period.
At this time, we don't know what Simutronics will do. Why count chickens before they hatch. If tiered pricing is introduced after release, then we could have something to rant about. Personally, I will watch which way the wind seems to be blowing. If I see there might be a chance of tiered pricing down the line, I doubt very much I would buy the game.