Originally posted by kaibigan34 Yah lets all go do quests in this rebel versus imperial war so we can get.....4,000 year old armor from another game? Wait a second!
*Looks over at the swamptrooper and rebel infiltrator standing next to him*
Why didnt they use that armor? Why use mando armor? Hmmmmm.....
Oh I figured it out. This is SOE we are talking about here. They couldnt fight there way out of a children's book for a 3 year old.
Kai
Heh, gimme a good reason (other then you thinking it's out of cannon) why I shouldn't?
Originally posted by Obraik Originally posted by MX13
Did that look like fun to you?
It doesn't look like the best thing to go out and do :P But, there's more to the event then just that. If this whole battle was all there was to the Restuss event, then yeah I would be dissapointed with it and probably wouldn't plan on taking the day off to participate. However this is just a 40-60min transition phase to the battleground, the real thing I'm looking forward to from the whole Restuss thing. I'll be sure to post my opinion of the whole thing once it happens on Chilastra
Translation:
No it does NOT look like fun.However, Restuss is an ongoing theme park beyond that Event.
I'll start my own SWG... with Black Jack... and Hookers!!!
All he was saying is that some people enjoyed the event even though it was laggy. I accept this as truth, because I played in the Pre-CU game. In that game, I would have pulled out my IRL toenails before ever becoming a politician, but I know several others that actually enjoyed spending their skill points on it (this was before they removed the cost).
Originally posted by KenshuAni Ok, guys. Lay off Obraik All he was saying is that some people enjoyed the event even though it was laggy. I accept this as truth, because I played in the Pre-CU game. In that game, I would have pulled out my IRL toenails before ever becoming a politician, but I know several others that actually enjoyed spending their skill points on it (this was before they removed the cost). To each his own. Some people juggle geese.
Laggy? from what we are reading several servers cratered, some are still stuck in midphase to the point the devs are having to manually advance them as the code did not react as expected (testing is obvisiously not in play here). Devs are blaming the event issues on the players clients (love that excuse).
Granted Obriak's server again magically had no major issues and was only laggy, but look at the rest and maybe you might see why there is a distain and out right anger.
Personaly, i am glad that some servers are special and never have problems, but that should be the norm, NOT the exception. If my network was this reliable i would be at the unemployment office today.
Originally posted by Obraik Originally posted by kaibigan34 Yah lets all go do quests in this rebel versus imperial war so we can get.....4,000 year old armor from another game? Wait a second!
*Looks over at the swamptrooper and rebel infiltrator standing next to him*
Why didnt they use that armor? Why use mando armor? Hmmmmm.....
Oh I figured it out. This is SOE we are talking about here. They couldnt fight there way out of a children's book for a 3 year old.
Kai
Heh, gimme a good reason (other then you thinking it's out of cannon) why I shouldn't?
Because continually accepting what the developers feed you will continue them thinking they are doing the right thing. Doesnt matter that some people liked it. Judging from the boards very few enjoyed it. I would have to say, without actually counting, it looks like about 80 to 90% hated it. That good for this game? Same went with the NGE.
In any decently run corporation if 90% of the customer base hated a product you can bet the product would go bye bye or be changed to where the customer base liked it. But SOE seems completely oblivious to the whole thing. They act like the cartoon someone posted with the ostriches. They even go so far as to lie and say the event would be minimal lag and then blame the players when its a lagfest.
And not only do you continually accept what they feed you, but you also smile while eating it and ask for more. Its no wonder this game is in such dire straights.
Some say the fanbois love the game. But they really dont. If they loved the game they would stop sugar coating everything and admit the game is totally screwed. Then the developers wouldnt have them to fall back on. I know the devs are at SOE HQ reading the 4 or 5 positive posts about the event and patting themselves on the back "Ah a complete success!". If a fanboi loved the game they would be harsher on the critiques. What I am saying? A fanboi wouldnt be critical of the game even if the developers deleted all their toons then banned them for no reason. They would still be at the computer saying "Well its for the best. And its still a great game."
I am willing to bet if everyone playing the game said they hated the restuss events, it would get freaking fixed. Remember the XP nerf? How about wookie armor? Whenever everyone as a whole stands and says "Oh hell no!" the devs make the right changes. But as long as there are fanbois talking about how happy happy joy joy the game is, they dont do squat.
If fanbois really loved this game they would stop acting blind to the problems and try to get them fixed. But some are scared speaking out will get the game taken away or scared they will look like fools for playing it while saying something is bad. And the ironic thing is they look more like a fool for promoting the game and trying, badly, to show the positive side of every single nerf, bug, and illogical content addition.
If fanbois loved the game they would want to see it as a success. And the sad thing here is they are really selling the game short. Its STAR WARS for cripes sakes. It should be able to stand against the big boys. Instead its a continious joke to them. Only a moron could make a Star Wars game and have it fail. And say what you want but this game is failing.
In otherwords Obraik, "If your not part of the solution, your part of the problem." I really think that quote was made about fanbois.
Haters actually dont hate the game. They love it. They want it to succeed. Some play the game but try to get things fixed from the inside. Other martyr themselves by not playing the game in hopes that will get the game fixed. One hater has more love for this game then any 10 fanbois.
But until everyone gets on the same page nothing will get fixed the right way. We all know whats wrong. We all know what needs to be fixed. Yet there are still some who refuse to admit it. They will continue to sugar coat it and put media spin on the issues in an attempt to cover them up. All so they wont look like fools. And if the problems arent clear as a bell they wont get fixed.
If the developers fixed the game the correct way, it would be a force to be reckoned with. Probably wont beat WoW but would be in the top 10 of subs. Maybe even the top 3. Fanbois are just there to cloud the issue, however. So how is that loving the game?
I enjoy the game I don’t know why that is such a problem for people to understand. There are some fine individuals here who do not like SWG any longer and I respect there views for that and appreciate them, just as they respect my views and feelings for the game. I don’t understand why people would say that I must be a kid, or a retard, idiot, gullible, or an SOE employee, or even a drug user just because I enjoy the game. It is just a video game, and SOE is just another company to me. As far as the Restuss event, I would be very bored with it if there was just the one phase, but it looks like it might be very fun and for myself I am looking forward to trying it out. Will I have fun playing it? I don’t know I have not played it all yet, I will have to see. Thank you for your time.
Damn byotch dat aint no friggn moon fool, dat be a friggn space station byotch.
I am willing to bet if everyone playing the game said they hated the restuss events, it would get freaking fixed. Remember the XP nerf? How about wookie armor? Whenever everyone as a whole stands and says "Oh hell no!" the devs make the right changes. But as long as there are fanbois talking about how happy happy joy joy the game is, they dont do squat.
I agree that players should hold companies to a higher level of quality. I just wanted to highlight this particular quote.
The XP nerf is currently in the game now. The players stated that they didn't want it, so the devs removed it from the CU and placed it in the NGE. As well as increasing the xp needed to grind. So having the players stand up and say, "Oh hell no!" Didn't in fact change that aspect.
As for the wookie armor, meh. I never played one of those smelly hairballs, so I didn't even know people complained about not having armor.
Originally posted by BlazinBlades I enjoy the game I don’t know why that is such a problem for people to understand. There are some fine individuals here who do not like SWG any longer and I respect there views for that and appreciate them, just as they respect my views and feelings for the game. I don’t understand why people would say that I must be a kid, or a retard, idiot, gullible, or an SOE employee, or even a drug user just because I enjoy the game. It is just a video game, and SOE is just another company to me. As far as the Restuss event, I would be very bored with it if there was just the one phase, but it looks like it might be very fun and for myself I am looking forward to trying it out. Will I have fun playing it? I don’t know I have not played it all yet, I will have to see. Thank you for your time.
Enjoying the game is one thing. But when all someone says is completely positive or they twist bad things to sound good then there is something very wrong.
I enjoy parts of the game. Housing is great. I love decorating and playing Barbie Dreamhouse. I love fishing. I can do that for hours on end. I love exploiring. I spent hours a day just wandering around the worlds looking at things and still do. And compared to most MMOs, the crafting is great. Only beat out by Horizons in crafting.
But I hate they took away Ranger. That was my favorite of all classes. I hate they made jedi more prevelant then any other profession. They cater to jedi way too much. I hate they simplified the game. I liked the complexity. And I hate the developers lie on an almost continious basis. I hate they dont think about the content and make it more intune with the current time period. I mean come on, Mando armor for a battle between Imp and Rebs when you got swamptrooper, storm commando, rebel jungle, and rebel infiltrator armor you could use?
See? A person can be positive and negative at the sametime. But some folks think they have to be 100% positive all the time and never utter a single negative word against the game. If it was just a game to these people they wouldnt have any problems with saying whats wrong too. But they dont. They are habitual about putting a media spin on everything.
Originally posted by KenshuAni Originally posted by kaibigan34
I am willing to bet if everyone playing the game said they hated the restuss events, it would get freaking fixed. Remember the XP nerf? How about wookie armor? Whenever everyone as a whole stands and says "Oh hell no!" the devs make the right changes. But as long as there are fanbois talking about how happy happy joy joy the game is, they dont do squat.
I agree that players should hold companies to a higher level of quality. I just wanted to highlight this particular quote.
The XP nerf is currently in the game now. The players stated that they didn't want it, so the devs removed it from the CU and placed it in the NGE. As well as increasing the xp needed to grind. So having the players stand up and say, "Oh hell no!" Didn't in fact change that aspect.
As for the wookie armor, meh. I never played one of those smelly hairballs, so I didn't even know people complained about not having armor.
Actually the xp nerf was dropped in the CU. That its in the NGE doesnt matter. If the NGE hadnt happened the xp nerf would probably still not be there.
Another issue was a crafting nerf. It made it live. And everyone stood up against it. The patch was rolled back the very next day. The developers then made the right crafting changes, some nerf, that was great.
Then there was the FUBAR patch. The one they never truly tested that caused servers to crash, killed armor, and totally destoryed harvesting. All the players stood against it. Boy the devs took notice there. Even went so far as to put up a table with a list of the bugs that told us what was fixed and in game, fixed and on TC, and due to be fixed.
Originally posted by kaibigan34 Originally posted by Obraik Originally posted by kaibigan34 Yah lets all go do quests in this rebel versus imperial war so we can get.....4,000 year old armor from another game? Wait a second!
*Looks over at the swamptrooper and rebel infiltrator standing next to him*
Why didnt they use that armor? Why use mando armor? Hmmmmm.....
Oh I figured it out. This is SOE we are talking about here. They couldnt fight there way out of a children's book for a 3 year old.
Kai
Heh, gimme a good reason (other then you thinking it's out of cannon) why I shouldn't?
Because continually accepting what the developers feed you will continue them thinking they are doing the right thing. Doesnt matter that some people liked it. Judging from the boards very few enjoyed it. I would have to say, without actually counting, it looks like about 80 to 90% hated it. That good for this game? Same went with the NGE.
In any decently run corporation if 90% of the customer base hated a product you can bet the product would go bye bye or be changed to where the customer base liked it. But SOE seems completely oblivious to the whole thing. They act like the cartoon someone posted with the ostriches. They even go so far as to lie and say the event would be minimal lag and then blame the players when its a lagfest.
And not only do you continually accept what they feed you, but you also smile while eating it and ask for more. Its no wonder this game is in such dire straights.
Some say the fanbois love the game. But they really dont. If they loved the game they would stop sugar coating everything and admit the game is totally screwed. Then the developers wouldnt have them to fall back on. I know the devs are at SOE HQ reading the 4 or 5 positive posts about the event and patting themselves on the back "Ah a complete success!". If a fanboi loved the game they would be harsher on the critiques. What I am saying? A fanboi wouldnt be critical of the game even if the developers deleted all their toons then banned them for no reason. They would still be at the computer saying "Well its for the best. And its still a great game."
I am willing to bet if everyone playing the game said they hated the restuss events, it would get freaking fixed. Remember the XP nerf? How about wookie armor? Whenever everyone as a whole stands and says "Oh hell no!" the devs make the right changes. But as long as there are fanbois talking about how happy happy joy joy the game is, they dont do squat.
If fanbois really loved this game they would stop acting blind to the problems and try to get them fixed. But some are scared speaking out will get the game taken away or scared they will look like fools for playing it while saying something is bad. And the ironic thing is they look more like a fool for promoting the game and trying, badly, to show the positive side of every single nerf, bug, and illogical content addition.
If fanbois loved the game they would want to see it as a success. And the sad thing here is they are really selling the game short. Its STAR WARS for cripes sakes. It should be able to stand against the big boys. Instead its a continious joke to them. Only a moron could make a Star Wars game and have it fail. And say what you want but this game is failing.
In otherwords Obraik, "If your not part of the solution, your part of the problem." I really think that quote was made about fanbois.
Haters actually dont hate the game. They love it. They want it to succeed. Some play the game but try to get things fixed from the inside. Other martyr themselves by not playing the game in hopes that will get the game fixed. One hater has more love for this game then any 10 fanbois.
But until everyone gets on the same page nothing will get fixed the right way. We all know whats wrong. We all know what needs to be fixed. Yet there are still some who refuse to admit it. They will continue to sugar coat it and put media spin on the issues in an attempt to cover them up. All so they wont look like fools. And if the problems arent clear as a bell they wont get fixed.
If the developers fixed the game the correct way, it would be a force to be reckoned with. Probably wont beat WoW but would be in the top 10 of subs. Maybe even the top 3. Fanbois are just there to cloud the issue, however. So how is that loving the game?
Kai
Armour is armour to me, SWG is my first introduction to Star Wars so I don't know about the other stuff. You don't like the armour being in the game, but why do I need to dislike it because you do?
As for the rest, let me put it this way. I play the game because I genuienly have fun playing it, if I didn't I wouldn't be playing it and I wouldn't be here. When I post my opinions, it's how I genuienly feel about the issue, no sugar coating or "being positive about something I don't like so I don't look like a fool playing it." When I correct someone, it's based on the facts I've researched. The day I start hiding my true feelings is the day I leave the game
Armour is armour to me, SWG is my first introduction to Star Wars so I don't know about the other stuff. You don't like the armour being in the game, but why do I need to dislike it because you do?
As for the rest, let me put it this way. I play the game because I genuienly have fun playing it, if I didn't I wouldn't be playing it and I wouldn't be here. When I post my opinions, it's how I genuienly feel about the issue, no sugar coating or "being positive about something I don't like so I don't look like a fool playing it." When I correct someone, it's based on the facts I've researched. The day I start hiding my true feelings is the day I leave the game
You have seen the movies yes? Tell me honestly. Would you rather they have put something in the game to feel more like the movies? The way I see it, it would be better to place things in this game that makes people more interested in Star Wars and makes them go out and check more stuff out. Then they feel more like they are apart of the Star Wars universe.
Case in point here. Imperial Themepark. One of the quest givers is a member of the Inquisitorius. Now if you know the game follows continuity more closely you will be more likely to go look these guys up and find out about them. And you might even decide to write a background for your imp or even make your imp a member or aspiring member. You learn more about the universe and add more depth to the game that wasnt there before.
But putting stuff in game just because its cool, does NOT increase the fun factor for everyone. Remember right after RotW? It looked like the clone wars. Everyone running around in Katarn Armor. Yah ok the armor looks cool but it didnt feel like the time between Ep. IV and V. So immersion is lost.
I hate to say this but they are playing you for a fool. The developers are insulting your intelligence. They are dangling substandard content in front of you to mesmerize you so you will be blind to everything else going on.
Now they dropped in HK-47. Ok that wasnt that bad. A look at the past and it might get people interested in KotoR. But they also put in other things that make me go "WTF are they smoking?" like Obi Wan's glowie. All these Imperials doing quests for him yet Vader never finds out?
Tell me honestly here Obraik. Would you rather they made a game that followed continuity closely so you could feel as though you are apart of the Star Wars universe or would you rather they just tossed any old thing that looks cool into the game?
Right now they are tossing substandard content into the game. I did alot of the quests. Most were predictable as hell and looked like they were written by a 4 year old. The moment I read the first part about the droid I knew immediately, without reading the rest of it, I would be trapsing all over Tatooine gathering parts.
Imagine it. Doing the Restuss quests and the reward for the Imps is a suit of swamptrooper armor. After all Rori is almost all swamp. It doesnt take a rocket scientist to make this connection. But mando armor? Yah it looks awesome. I really do like it. But its not for this quest series. A whole quest line about Mandolorians it would be great. But to foster the GCW and make it grow? Nope cant accept that.
Kai
EDIT: Also you enjoy the game. Great. There are parts of this game I enjoy too. I said in another post I like the housing, fishing, exploring, and alot more. But I dont try to hide behind only positive things and act like the negative things arent there. I dont spin on everything bad to make it look like its all good. Because it isnt. When I tell someone about the game I tell them things I like too. But I dont ignore or hide the bad things. I speak them out. I let them know. I dont try to be sneaky.
Armour is armour to me, SWG is my first introduction to Star Wars so I don't know about the other stuff. You don't like the armour being in the game, but why do I need to dislike it because you do?
As for the rest, let me put it this way. I play the game because I genuienly have fun playing it, if I didn't I wouldn't be playing it and I wouldn't be here. When I post my opinions, it's how I genuienly feel about the issue, no sugar coating or "being positive about something I don't like so I don't look like a fool playing it." When I correct someone, it's based on the facts I've researched. The day I start hiding my true feelings is the day I leave the game
This explains an awful lot. I haven't read all of your posts, Obraik, but to me it explains almost everything about you and your position. Not a positive or negative, just explanatory. FWIW, I've never seen you as a "NGE fanboi" like most other people (Squidi for instance), you are too laid-back for that.
The one thing that it doesn't reconcile, at least in my head, is why you continue to support a company that so blatantly hates its players. I understand the game is fun to you, but from a business perspective, does that fact overshadow everything SOE has done? The way I feel about it is I would never go back to SWG no matter what they did to it as long as SOE runs it, because I disagree with Sony's business practices. I take it that aspect doesn't bother you? Just trying to get a handle on your perspective, not trying to be all flamy.
Anyone who makes a 300 person royal rumble fest on there servers is already in my mind retarded. The mere lunacy of expecting the servers to be able to handle the traffic is what most of us who game dont understand. The mere fact that the game now has to deal with x,y,z coordinates for combat when rendering doubles the lag of these events at a min. The servers crashed most likely at a cpu level. Trying to calculate 300 xyz positions at the exact same moment in time repeated by hundreds of simulaneous clicks repeating the requested transaction while the movement x,y,z calculations are still constantly running and then say its the client side.
Simple logic causes the flaws. When the game was turn based action executed to the server didn't require an x,y,z calculation on the to-hit. When they added that calculation on top of the other game damage calculation it exponentionally increases the number of players to the server. Think about it. Your base calculation was always where you where at on the map. The rubberbanding was the difference in those calculations where the server overruled the client. This was done to protect from client-side movement hacks that would allow people to move to unintended locations or to get stuck. The unstick command was simply a way to transmit current coordinates your client had to at to the server and force it to recompute whether those where valid and if they wheren't issue your client valid coordinates. On damage caculations it was turn based. IE when the server executed your clients commands it simply calculated a to-hit/to-damage variable and applied it to the target client. So I que up headhit3 against target x from xyz coordinate. Distance is calculated in range to hit is a variable passed along based on the difference between your server xy vs targets xy cooridnates it then takes variable x and does a multiple off the weapons table. To-hit is then calculated based on your to-hit vs targets to-hit. If a hit is scored weapon damage calcuation times the distance variable occured to produce a damage number then applied against resistance. Hence the weapons damage calculators of old pre-cu. This number was passed to the other client and his ham was adjusted visually even though at the server it already was stored. Currently they have added to the server an x,y,z calculation that has to be be run on every click of the clients mouse causing packet queuing and data overhead. Old lag could be client side as most data on your toon was server side and your ping rate affected what you actually saw.
Now I am able to force the server to run a to new calculation at an insane rate. Instead of a default auto attack rate with a distance variable only on a known variable enemy target. Now you add in a variable check onclick x,y,z if x,y,z of onclick = x,y,z of any client do calculation on damage on that client. That is a MASSIVE calculation for the server. It requires it to timestamp compare and coordinate compare each and every client currently attached to that server for each and every mouse click the client passes to the server. To reduce lag soe probably helped to limit that query by specifying a circular range but this still requires the server to apply the filter. Even zoned this query gets junked when you have 300+ clients in one packed location spamming attacks. It is a really sweet concept online fps modeling. I am not exactly sure how it figures the red cross-hairs into the equation as reports are constant of this not accounting to a hit. Meaning at some level the server is pre-processing in range client to reduce processing time. However, doing so just puts the lag upfront which I suspect is what causes load in lagging and massive lag when trying to move and fire not so much your movement but the fact it re calculates those range ahead of time for your cursor to be red over an enemy. He moves and then your recalculating that and you move and recalculate both. Your better off not moving to have less lag.
For those non sql based people. Imagine being forced to go do 300 simultaneous story problems every second times 300. It has to be tremendeously taxing because of the fps elements now inplace on the hardware. Its a vastly more taxing system without a pure target lock system.
Thus they at a min. halved there cpu power on all servers. Luckily for soe they also halved there population numbers with the nge so that the increased lag wasn't as huge as it might have appeared.
Added onto that was increased database size, more code lines to execute client and server side and no hardware expansions on a system orginally scoped and designed around an entirely different game model..
Pure total lunacy to expect this to function and I highly doubt this was server stress tested. Add ontop of that the following lag as lag builds more lag. Client x initiates 10 clicks. He doesn't get a response and issues 10 more clicks. The server is now passed 10 clicks and then 20 clicks back to the client
FPS are vastly more hardware intensive and result in mass pvp stragey being standing still to optimize rate of fire. Forming a variable wall of clicking players standing still and controlling an area. It becomes a civil war battle and is stupidly boring imho.
Wonder why they have issues now? Pft anyone with basic experience in database design and query optimization would tell you that what they did and expected of the servers is pure insanity.
Infact I bet 100 clients could at any given time crash the server entirely by locking the server software by getting together and pvping. Doing nothing more then clicking on each other repeatedly. Infact I challenge test center to get 100 players to be overt at 1 location and start clicking on each other and see what happens to the server. I bet it crashes because the cpu's cannot keep up with the sql coordinate requests from the clients.
Hey guys wanted to jump in on Vapors thread. When I made the comment at the Stratics HoC chat that we would not have lag we were all working hard testing the event and felt solid about the outcome. Obviously our tests did not mimic reality for everyone and some of you were affected. I am genuinely sorry for that. Our intent was to deliver an epic server wide event and we are working to improve the Restuss encounter for the servers who have not yet experienced it.
Hey guys wanted to jump in on Vapors thread. When I made the comment at the Stratics HoC chat that we would not have lag we were all working hard testing the event and felt solid about the outcome. Obviously our tests did not mimic reality for everyone and some of you were affected. I am genuinely sorry for that. Our intent was to deliver an epic server wide event and we are working to improve the Restuss encounter for the servers who have not yet experienced it.
One day the Left hand will talk to the Right hand.... OR listen to people that warned them, predicted this- or knew it would happen.
This is like saying the game will have 50% broken quests... How do I know which ones? I don't have to, I base this on performance, history and commmon sense.
This is like saying "were sorry" for forcing the NGE.... sure it sounds good to some people but they still freaking did it.
KARMA --- it will win in the end.
______________________________ I usually picture the Career builder commercial with the room full of monkeys and upside down sales chart when thinking about the SOE/SWG decision making process..... SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes." Ref NGE Winner of the worst MMOS goes to.... the NGE and SWG..!!! http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadFeature=1034&bhcp=1
Never in my entire life have I seen a company which ignores any and all demands of thier customers and continue on a downward spiral down the toilet. I really don't care whose fault it is, whether the devs, SOE, or LA, all i know is you destroyed a great game, made hundreds of thousands of players so angry they can spit, and destroyed your reputation on any product in the future. Go to any forum of any game and I swear to you that never will you find even half as much hostility between the players and developers as this one has. The one and only reason for this is because the developers made it clear that any work or accomplishments we made in the game are pretty much a waste of time, no matter how much everyone loved the last game its not comming back, and that the reason all this is happening is because they want to attract an invicible audience and don't really care about thier current subscribers. Anyone who calls this a flame better shut your mouth, anyone who was affected by the NGE WAS stabbed in the back and what we once had and loved will never come back. So why am i making this post?
Anyone who feels the same way as me and hundreds of others must realize an inevitable truth, the game is never going to come back. I am here to beg you, to plead to you to cancel your account NOW if you feel betrayed. By continuing in this abombinal game you are supporting what they did. If you enjoy the NGE, which i dont see how that possible, stay and enjoy the work of the devs. If you hate the NGE but have an active account, quit now, do not let them get money from you when they stole what you once loved and gave you this crap NGE. The game will never come back, unless mabey its there last option, together we may be able to bring it back, and if not, at least they will pay for thier mistake and have to abandon the project.
We just wanted to say thank you to all who participated in the first series of Restuss Events last night on Ahazi, Bloodfin, Radiant, Scylla, Eclipse and Naritus. The Battle of Restuss is the first of its kind for SWG or any other MMO, and we are glad that so many people logged in to check it out! We do consider this a learning experience and did monitor server performance last night. We know many players had some issues with lag and overall performance. A couple of servers had some problems switching over the event. We apologize to those of you who experienced any difficulties. With this in mind, we are planning on pushing out a fix the beginning of next week that we hope will improve server and client-side performance. This should help all players during upcoming Restuss Events as well as any other future large-scale in-game events.
David Jones Associate Producer, SWG
Let's see, where to begin...
The Battle of Restuss is the first of its kind for SWG or any other MMO
WRONG- Several MMO's have had Events that physically change the Enviroment with Largescale PVP, one I attended being their own MxO!
We do consider this a learning experience and did monitor server performance last night.
Are $%^&*#$ kidding me? What was TC then? They KNEW this was going to happen... that's like throwing a grenade on a range, watching it explode, and then turning and throwing it into a crowd to "learn from the experience".
We know many players had some issues with lag and overall performance.
EVERYONE had issues with lag & performance. WHY CAN'T YOU ADMIT IT!!!
A couple of servers had some problems switching over the event.
So, the players had issues, but your servers crashed. I haven't seen ONE post saying their client crashed, have you?
We apologize to those of you who experienced any difficulties.
That's like aiming at someones face, shooting & then saying your sorry... SOE KNEW it was shooting the players in the face, but did it anyway...
With this in mind, we are planning on pushing out a fix the beginning of next week that we hope will improve server and client-side performance.
AGAIN, the players had issues, but your servers crashed. I haven't seen ONE post saying their client crashed, have you? It wasn't the Client that had issues with the change... It's SOE. SOE IS THE PROBLEM.
Hey Dev's:GET OFF YOUR ARROGANT HIGHHORSE, AND ADMIT YOU SCREWED UP!!! Own up to YOUR mistakes! How can you not get that????
I'll start my own SWG... with Black Jack... and Hookers!!!
Anyone that played pre-cu knows that when 200+ players gather in one place and start shooting eachother, the servers crash, thats just how it is.
heres a thread with some of the more positive aspects of the restuss event, altough i must agree that the whole city-exploding thing was a failure, it wasnt more of a failure then every combat event pre cu and at least now the devs are heading in the right direction. Not to mention that battlefields are back, yay!
Originally posted by pirrg Anyone that played pre-cu knows that when 200+ players gather in one place and start shooting eachother, the servers crash, thats just how it is.
heres a thread with some of the more positive aspects of the restuss event, altough i must agree that the whole city-exploding thing was a failure, it wasnt more of a failure then every combat event pre cu and at least now the devs are heading in the right direction. Not to mention that battlefields are back, yay!
Hey guys wanted to jump in on Vapors thread. When I made the comment at the Stratics HoC chat that we would not have lag we were all working hard testing the event and felt solid about the outcome. Obviously our tests did not mimic reality for everyone and some of you were affected. I am genuinely sorry for that. Our intent was to deliver an epic server wide event and we are working to improve the Restuss encounter for the servers who have not yet experienced it.
And for those that have experienced it already, tough s**t! And "obviously our tests did not mimic reality" even when they speak the truth they just look worse.
I found this post in that thread to be extremely rich.
Greatwarrior Wrote:
Seriously people... Every situation you do in life is a learning experience, why should this not be? The argument that its a paying server is null and void because every game and every paying product that goes on the marketing is a test in itself. Will people buy that product.. do things need to be changed with that product.. why do you think games come out with patches? Seriously.. calm down and THINK before you complain.
This was a good event and besides the lag which was expected (on Eclipse we've had 6 huge player events in our history that had the exact same lag situation) it went ok. Hopefully this event was a good learning experience to fix up some lag issues and have the next one a bit better. I'm still waiting for my combat vehicles
Originally posted by LilT I found this post in that thread to be extremely rich.
Greatwarrior Wrote:
Seriously people... Every situation you do in life is a learning experience, why should this not be? The argument that its a paying server is null and void because every game and every paying product that goes on the marketing is a test in itself. Will people buy that product.. do things need to be changed with that product.. why do you think games come out with patches? Seriously.. calm down and THINK before you complain.
This was a good event and besides the lag which was expected (on Eclipse we've had 6 huge player events in our history that had the exact same lag situation) it went ok. Hopefully this event was a good learning experience to fix up some lag issues and have the next one a bit better. I'm still waiting for my combat vehicles
rofl rofl rofl.
I call shenanigans. There were some bad lagfests on Eclipse, but never enough to crash a server. You lagged, you didn't get logged off. Several other ones went off fine without a hitch. Furthermore, those live events (with the exception of fall of wrenpire) were not planned events months in advance, but many times spur of the moment events, or controlled events with a limited number of people. So apples to oranges, I love these fanbois sometimes!
Originally posted by LilT I found this post in that thread to be extremely rich.
Greatwarrior Wrote:
Seriously people... Every situation you do in life is a learning experience, why should this not be? The argument that its a paying server is null and void because every game and every paying product that goes on the marketing is a test in itself. Will people buy that product.. do things need to be changed with that product.. why do you think games come out with patches? Seriously.. calm down and THINK before you complain...
Bullshit. This is a rationalization, not a reason.
Any company with ethics and integrity ensures that the features and functionality of a commercial product have been tested to the point where it is usable before it is released (sold) to the public. Yes, there may be problems, but they are rare or highly minimized and have workarounds if necessary. Crashing is a HUGE no-no to knowingly release.
So, because SOE admitted that they knew there would be issues to the level that there were (unplayable), this all qualifies as pay-to-test beta software, NOT A RELEASED PRODUCT.
If you are playing SWG today, you are a beta tester, not the user of a finished product, and you're paying for the privilege. If you're OK with that, that's fine with me. But "Greatwarrior" is f*cked in the head.
Originally posted by kaibigan34 You have seen the movies yes? Tell me honestly. Would you rather they have put something in the game to feel more like the movies? The way I see it, it would be better to place things in this game that makes people more interested in Star Wars and makes them go out and check more stuff out. Then they feel more like they are apart of the Star Wars universe.
Case in point here. Imperial Themepark. One of the quest givers is a member of the Inquisitorius. Now if you know the game follows continuity more closely you will be more likely to go look these guys up and find out about them. And you might even decide to write a background for your imp or even make your imp a member or aspiring member. You learn more about the universe and add more depth to the game that wasnt there before.
But putting stuff in game just because its cool, does NOT increase the fun factor for everyone. Remember right after RotW? It looked like the clone wars. Everyone running around in Katarn Armor. Yah ok the armor looks cool but it didnt feel like the time between Ep. IV and V. So immersion is lost.
I hate to say this but they are playing you for a fool. The developers are insulting your intelligence. They are dangling substandard content in front of you to mesmerize you so you will be blind to everything else going on.
Now they dropped in HK-47. Ok that wasnt that bad. A look at the past and it might get people interested in KotoR. But they also put in other things that make me go "WTF are they smoking?" like Obi Wan's glowie. All these Imperials doing quests for him yet Vader never finds out?
Tell me honestly here Obraik. Would you rather they made a game that followed continuity closely so you could feel as though you are apart of the Star Wars universe or would you rather they just tossed any old thing that looks cool into the game?
Right now they are tossing substandard content into the game. I did alot of the quests. Most were predictable as hell and looked like they were written by a 4 year old. The moment I read the first part about the droid I knew immediately, without reading the rest of it, I would be trapsing all over Tatooine gathering parts.
Imagine it. Doing the Restuss quests and the reward for the Imps is a suit of swamptrooper armor. After all Rori is almost all swamp. It doesnt take a rocket scientist to make this connection. But mando armor? Yah it looks awesome. I really do like it. But its not for this quest series. A whole quest line about Mandolorians it would be great. But to foster the GCW and make it grow? Nope cant accept that.
Kai
EDIT: Also you enjoy the game. Great. There are parts of this game I enjoy too. I said in another post I like the housing, fishing, exploring, and alot more. But I dont try to hide behind only positive things and act like the negative things arent there. I dont spin on everything bad to make it look like its all good. Because it isnt. When I tell someone about the game I tell them things I like too. But I dont ignore or hide the bad things. I speak them out. I let them know. I dont try to be sneaky.
Actually, believe it or not, alot of what has been added to the game has inspired me to read up about it. With ROTW for instance, I found my selflooking up Kashyyyyk and reading about it, Necrosis, the BARC speeders, etc. I found myself following other links through the Databank (and the Wiki) to other topics and before I knew it, I'd spent over 3 hours reading up on some Star Wars history. Same with ToOW, I started looking up about Mustafar, Mustafarians, HK-47, the Droid Factory, etc.
Before SWG, I had not watched any of the Star Wars movies, it was until March last year that I actually hired them all out and finally watched them. If it wasn't for SWG, I likely would have never become interested in SW. It was pretty cool to watch them and be able to say "I've been to that city, I've walked along that path, I've killed that creature, I've worn that armour, etc."
In my case at least, the game might not introduce stuff that is completely appropriate for the time period, but it does inspire me to look further into the other world that is SW
Comments
Heh, gimme a good reason (other then you thinking it's out of cannon) why I shouldn't?
It doesn't look like the best thing to go out and do :P But, there's more to the event then just that. If this whole battle was all there was to the Restuss event, then yeah I would be dissapointed with it and probably wouldn't plan on taking the day off to participate. However this is just a 40-60min transition phase to the battleground, the real thing I'm looking forward to from the whole Restuss thing. I'll be sure to post my opinion of the whole thing once it happens on Chilastra
Translation:
No it does NOT look like fun. However, Restuss is an ongoing theme park beyond that Event.
I'll start my own SWG... with Black Jack... and Hookers!!!
In fact, forget the SWG!!!!
Ok, guys. Lay off Obraik
All he was saying is that some people enjoyed the event even though it was laggy. I accept this as truth, because I played in the Pre-CU game. In that game, I would have pulled out my IRL toenails before ever becoming a politician, but I know several others that actually enjoyed spending their skill points on it (this was before they removed the cost).
To each his own.
Some people juggle geese.
Laggy? from what we are reading several servers cratered, some are still stuck in midphase to the point the devs are having to manually advance them as the code did not react as expected (testing is obvisiously not in play here). Devs are blaming the event issues on the players clients (love that excuse).
Granted Obriak's server again magically had no major issues and was only laggy, but look at the rest and maybe you might see why there is a distain and out right anger.
Personaly, i am glad that some servers are special and never have problems, but that should be the norm, NOT the exception. If my network was this reliable i would be at the unemployment office today.
Heh, gimme a good reason (other then you thinking it's out of cannon) why I shouldn't?
Because continually accepting what the developers feed you will continue them thinking they are doing the right thing. Doesnt matter that some people liked it. Judging from the boards very few enjoyed it. I would have to say, without actually counting, it looks like about 80 to 90% hated it. That good for this game? Same went with the NGE.
In any decently run corporation if 90% of the customer base hated a product you can bet the product would go bye bye or be changed to where the customer base liked it. But SOE seems completely oblivious to the whole thing. They act like the cartoon someone posted with the ostriches. They even go so far as to lie and say the event would be minimal lag and then blame the players when its a lagfest.
And not only do you continually accept what they feed you, but you also smile while eating it and ask for more. Its no wonder this game is in such dire straights.
Some say the fanbois love the game. But they really dont. If they loved the game they would stop sugar coating everything and admit the game is totally screwed. Then the developers wouldnt have them to fall back on. I know the devs are at SOE HQ reading the 4 or 5 positive posts about the event and patting themselves on the back "Ah a complete success!". If a fanboi loved the game they would be harsher on the critiques. What I am saying? A fanboi wouldnt be critical of the game even if the developers deleted all their toons then banned them for no reason. They would still be at the computer saying "Well its for the best. And its still a great game."
I am willing to bet if everyone playing the game said they hated the restuss events, it would get freaking fixed. Remember the XP nerf? How about wookie armor? Whenever everyone as a whole stands and says "Oh hell no!" the devs make the right changes. But as long as there are fanbois talking about how happy happy joy joy the game is, they dont do squat.
If fanbois really loved this game they would stop acting blind to the problems and try to get them fixed. But some are scared speaking out will get the game taken away or scared they will look like fools for playing it while saying something is bad. And the ironic thing is they look more like a fool for promoting the game and trying, badly, to show the positive side of every single nerf, bug, and illogical content addition.
If fanbois loved the game they would want to see it as a success. And the sad thing here is they are really selling the game short. Its STAR WARS for cripes sakes. It should be able to stand against the big boys. Instead its a continious joke to them. Only a moron could make a Star Wars game and have it fail. And say what you want but this game is failing.
In otherwords Obraik, "If your not part of the solution, your part of the problem." I really think that quote was made about fanbois.
Haters actually dont hate the game. They love it. They want it to succeed. Some play the game but try to get things fixed from the inside. Other martyr themselves by not playing the game in hopes that will get the game fixed. One hater has more love for this game then any 10 fanbois.
But until everyone gets on the same page nothing will get fixed the right way. We all know whats wrong. We all know what needs to be fixed. Yet there are still some who refuse to admit it. They will continue to sugar coat it and put media spin on the issues in an attempt to cover them up. All so they wont look like fools. And if the problems arent clear as a bell they wont get fixed.
If the developers fixed the game the correct way, it would be a force to be reckoned with. Probably wont beat WoW but would be in the top 10 of subs. Maybe even the top 3. Fanbois are just there to cloud the issue, however. So how is that loving the game?
Kai
I enjoy the game I don’t know why that is such a problem for people to understand. There are some fine individuals here who do not like SWG any longer and I respect there views for that and appreciate them, just as they respect my views and feelings for the game. I don’t understand why people would say that I must be a kid, or a retard, idiot, gullible, or an SOE employee, or even a drug user just because I enjoy the game. It is just a video game, and SOE is just another company to me. As far as the Restuss event, I would be very bored with it if there was just the one phase, but it looks like it might be very fun and for myself I am looking forward to trying it out. Will I have fun playing it? I don’t know I have not played it all yet, I will have to see. Thank you for your time.
Damn byotch dat aint no friggn moon fool, dat be a friggn space station byotch.
I agree that players should hold companies to a higher level of quality. I just wanted to highlight this particular quote.
The XP nerf is currently in the game now. The players stated that they didn't want it, so the devs removed it from the CU and placed it in the NGE. As well as increasing the xp needed to grind. So having the players stand up and say, "Oh hell no!" Didn't in fact change that aspect.
As for the wookie armor, meh. I never played one of those smelly hairballs, so I didn't even know people complained about not having armor.
I enjoy parts of the game. Housing is great. I love decorating and playing Barbie Dreamhouse. I love fishing. I can do that for hours on end. I love exploiring. I spent hours a day just wandering around the worlds looking at things and still do. And compared to most MMOs, the crafting is great. Only beat out by Horizons in crafting.
But I hate they took away Ranger. That was my favorite of all classes. I hate they made jedi more prevelant then any other profession. They cater to jedi way too much. I hate they simplified the game. I liked the complexity. And I hate the developers lie on an almost continious basis. I hate they dont think about the content and make it more intune with the current time period. I mean come on, Mando armor for a battle between Imp and Rebs when you got swamptrooper, storm commando, rebel jungle, and rebel infiltrator armor you could use?
See? A person can be positive and negative at the sametime. But some folks think they have to be 100% positive all the time and never utter a single negative word against the game. If it was just a game to these people they wouldnt have any problems with saying whats wrong too. But they dont. They are habitual about putting a media spin on everything.
Kai
I agree that players should hold companies to a higher level of quality. I just wanted to highlight this particular quote.
The XP nerf is currently in the game now. The players stated that they didn't want it, so the devs removed it from the CU and placed it in the NGE. As well as increasing the xp needed to grind. So having the players stand up and say, "Oh hell no!" Didn't in fact change that aspect.
As for the wookie armor, meh. I never played one of those smelly hairballs, so I didn't even know people complained about not having armor.
Actually the xp nerf was dropped in the CU. That its in the NGE doesnt matter. If the NGE hadnt happened the xp nerf would probably still not be there.
Another issue was a crafting nerf. It made it live. And everyone stood up against it. The patch was rolled back the very next day. The developers then made the right crafting changes, some nerf, that was great.
Then there was the FUBAR patch. The one they never truly tested that caused servers to crash, killed armor, and totally destoryed harvesting. All the players stood against it. Boy the devs took notice there. Even went so far as to put up a table with a list of the bugs that told us what was fixed and in game, fixed and on TC, and due to be fixed.
Kai
Heh, gimme a good reason (other then you thinking it's out of cannon) why I shouldn't?
Because continually accepting what the developers feed you will continue them thinking they are doing the right thing. Doesnt matter that some people liked it. Judging from the boards very few enjoyed it. I would have to say, without actually counting, it looks like about 80 to 90% hated it. That good for this game? Same went with the NGE.
In any decently run corporation if 90% of the customer base hated a product you can bet the product would go bye bye or be changed to where the customer base liked it. But SOE seems completely oblivious to the whole thing. They act like the cartoon someone posted with the ostriches. They even go so far as to lie and say the event would be minimal lag and then blame the players when its a lagfest.
And not only do you continually accept what they feed you, but you also smile while eating it and ask for more. Its no wonder this game is in such dire straights.
Some say the fanbois love the game. But they really dont. If they loved the game they would stop sugar coating everything and admit the game is totally screwed. Then the developers wouldnt have them to fall back on. I know the devs are at SOE HQ reading the 4 or 5 positive posts about the event and patting themselves on the back "Ah a complete success!". If a fanboi loved the game they would be harsher on the critiques. What I am saying? A fanboi wouldnt be critical of the game even if the developers deleted all their toons then banned them for no reason. They would still be at the computer saying "Well its for the best. And its still a great game."
I am willing to bet if everyone playing the game said they hated the restuss events, it would get freaking fixed. Remember the XP nerf? How about wookie armor? Whenever everyone as a whole stands and says "Oh hell no!" the devs make the right changes. But as long as there are fanbois talking about how happy happy joy joy the game is, they dont do squat.
If fanbois really loved this game they would stop acting blind to the problems and try to get them fixed. But some are scared speaking out will get the game taken away or scared they will look like fools for playing it while saying something is bad. And the ironic thing is they look more like a fool for promoting the game and trying, badly, to show the positive side of every single nerf, bug, and illogical content addition.
If fanbois loved the game they would want to see it as a success. And the sad thing here is they are really selling the game short. Its STAR WARS for cripes sakes. It should be able to stand against the big boys. Instead its a continious joke to them. Only a moron could make a Star Wars game and have it fail. And say what you want but this game is failing.
In otherwords Obraik, "If your not part of the solution, your part of the problem." I really think that quote was made about fanbois.
Haters actually dont hate the game. They love it. They want it to succeed. Some play the game but try to get things fixed from the inside. Other martyr themselves by not playing the game in hopes that will get the game fixed. One hater has more love for this game then any 10 fanbois.
But until everyone gets on the same page nothing will get fixed the right way. We all know whats wrong. We all know what needs to be fixed. Yet there are still some who refuse to admit it. They will continue to sugar coat it and put media spin on the issues in an attempt to cover them up. All so they wont look like fools. And if the problems arent clear as a bell they wont get fixed.
If the developers fixed the game the correct way, it would be a force to be reckoned with. Probably wont beat WoW but would be in the top 10 of subs. Maybe even the top 3. Fanbois are just there to cloud the issue, however. So how is that loving the game?
Kai
Armour is armour to me, SWG is my first introduction to Star Wars so I don't know about the other stuff. You don't like the armour being in the game, but why do I need to dislike it because you do?
As for the rest, let me put it this way. I play the game because I genuienly have fun playing it, if I didn't I wouldn't be playing it and I wouldn't be here. When I post my opinions, it's how I genuienly feel about the issue, no sugar coating or "being positive about something I don't like so I don't look like a fool playing it." When I correct someone, it's based on the facts I've researched. The day I start hiding my true feelings is the day I leave the game
Armour is armour to me, SWG is my first introduction to Star Wars so I don't know about the other stuff. You don't like the armour being in the game, but why do I need to dislike it because you do?
As for the rest, let me put it this way. I play the game because I genuienly have fun playing it, if I didn't I wouldn't be playing it and I wouldn't be here. When I post my opinions, it's how I genuienly feel about the issue, no sugar coating or "being positive about something I don't like so I don't look like a fool playing it." When I correct someone, it's based on the facts I've researched. The day I start hiding my true feelings is the day I leave the game
You have seen the movies yes? Tell me honestly. Would you rather they have put something in the game to feel more like the movies? The way I see it, it would be better to place things in this game that makes people more interested in Star Wars and makes them go out and check more stuff out. Then they feel more like they are apart of the Star Wars universe.
Case in point here. Imperial Themepark. One of the quest givers is a member of the Inquisitorius. Now if you know the game follows continuity more closely you will be more likely to go look these guys up and find out about them. And you might even decide to write a background for your imp or even make your imp a member or aspiring member. You learn more about the universe and add more depth to the game that wasnt there before.
But putting stuff in game just because its cool, does NOT increase the fun factor for everyone. Remember right after RotW? It looked like the clone wars. Everyone running around in Katarn Armor. Yah ok the armor looks cool but it didnt feel like the time between Ep. IV and V. So immersion is lost.
I hate to say this but they are playing you for a fool. The developers are insulting your intelligence. They are dangling substandard content in front of you to mesmerize you so you will be blind to everything else going on.
Now they dropped in HK-47. Ok that wasnt that bad. A look at the past and it might get people interested in KotoR. But they also put in other things that make me go "WTF are they smoking?" like Obi Wan's glowie. All these Imperials doing quests for him yet Vader never finds out?
Tell me honestly here Obraik. Would you rather they made a game that followed continuity closely so you could feel as though you are apart of the Star Wars universe or would you rather they just tossed any old thing that looks cool into the game?
Right now they are tossing substandard content into the game. I did alot of the quests. Most were predictable as hell and looked like they were written by a 4 year old. The moment I read the first part about the droid I knew immediately, without reading the rest of it, I would be trapsing all over Tatooine gathering parts.
Imagine it. Doing the Restuss quests and the reward for the Imps is a suit of swamptrooper armor. After all Rori is almost all swamp. It doesnt take a rocket scientist to make this connection. But mando armor? Yah it looks awesome. I really do like it. But its not for this quest series. A whole quest line about Mandolorians it would be great. But to foster the GCW and make it grow? Nope cant accept that.
Kai
EDIT: Also you enjoy the game. Great. There are parts of this game I enjoy too. I said in another post I like the housing, fishing, exploring, and alot more. But I dont try to hide behind only positive things and act like the negative things arent there. I dont spin on everything bad to make it look like its all good. Because it isnt. When I tell someone about the game I tell them things I like too. But I dont ignore or hide the bad things. I speak them out. I let them know. I dont try to be sneaky.
Armour is armour to me, SWG is my first introduction to Star Wars so I don't know about the other stuff. You don't like the armour being in the game, but why do I need to dislike it because you do?
As for the rest, let me put it this way. I play the game because I genuienly have fun playing it, if I didn't I wouldn't be playing it and I wouldn't be here. When I post my opinions, it's how I genuienly feel about the issue, no sugar coating or "being positive about something I don't like so I don't look like a fool playing it." When I correct someone, it's based on the facts I've researched. The day I start hiding my true feelings is the day I leave the game
This explains an awful lot. I haven't read all of your posts, Obraik, but to me it explains almost everything about you and your position. Not a positive or negative, just explanatory. FWIW, I've never seen you as a "NGE fanboi" like most other people (Squidi for instance), you are too laid-back for that.
The one thing that it doesn't reconcile, at least in my head, is why you continue to support a company that so blatantly hates its players. I understand the game is fun to you, but from a business perspective, does that fact overshadow everything SOE has done? The way I feel about it is I would never go back to SWG no matter what they did to it as long as SOE runs it, because I disagree with Sony's business practices. I take it that aspect doesn't bother you? Just trying to get a handle on your perspective, not trying to be all flamy.
There's a sucker born every minute. - P.T. Barnum
Anyone who makes a 300 person royal rumble fest on there servers is already in my mind retarded. The mere lunacy of expecting the servers to be able to handle the traffic is what most of us who game dont understand. The mere fact that the game now has to deal with x,y,z coordinates for combat when rendering doubles the lag of these events at a min. The servers crashed most likely at a cpu level. Trying to calculate 300 xyz positions at the exact same moment in time repeated by hundreds of simulaneous clicks repeating the requested transaction while the movement x,y,z calculations are still constantly running and then say its the client side.
Simple logic causes the flaws. When the game was turn based action executed to the server didn't require an x,y,z calculation on the to-hit. When they added that calculation on top of the other game damage calculation it exponentionally increases the number of players to the server. Think about it. Your base calculation was always where you where at on the map. The rubberbanding was the difference in those calculations where the server overruled the client. This was done to protect from client-side movement hacks that would allow people to move to unintended locations or to get stuck. The unstick command was simply a way to transmit current coordinates your client had to at to the server and force it to recompute whether those where valid and if they wheren't issue your client valid coordinates. On damage caculations it was turn based. IE when the server executed your clients commands it simply calculated a to-hit/to-damage variable and applied it to the target client. So I que up headhit3 against target x from xyz coordinate. Distance is calculated in range to hit is a variable passed along based on the difference between your server xy vs targets xy cooridnates it then takes variable x and does a multiple off the weapons table. To-hit is then calculated based on your to-hit vs targets to-hit. If a hit is scored weapon damage calcuation times the distance variable occured to produce a damage number then applied against resistance. Hence the weapons damage calculators of old pre-cu. This number was passed to the other client and his ham was adjusted visually even though at the server it already was stored. Currently they have added to the server an x,y,z calculation that has to be be run on every click of the clients mouse causing packet queuing and data overhead. Old lag could be client side as most data on your toon was server side and your ping rate affected what you actually saw.
Now I am able to force the server to run a to new calculation at an insane rate. Instead of a default auto attack rate with a distance variable only on a known variable enemy target. Now you add in a variable check onclick x,y,z if x,y,z of onclick = x,y,z of any client do calculation on damage on that client. That is a MASSIVE calculation for the server. It requires it to timestamp compare and coordinate compare each and every client currently attached to that server for each and every mouse click the client passes to the server. To reduce lag soe probably helped to limit that query by specifying a circular range but this still requires the server to apply the filter. Even zoned this query gets junked when you have 300+ clients in one packed location spamming attacks. It is a really sweet concept online fps modeling. I am not exactly sure how it figures the red cross-hairs into the equation as reports are constant of this not accounting to a hit. Meaning at some level the server is pre-processing in range client to reduce processing time. However, doing so just puts the lag upfront which I suspect is what causes load in lagging and massive lag when trying to move and fire not so much your movement but the fact it re calculates those range ahead of time for your cursor to be red over an enemy. He moves and then your recalculating that and you move and recalculate both. Your better off not moving to have less lag.
For those non sql based people. Imagine being forced to go do 300 simultaneous story problems every second times 300. It has to be tremendeously taxing because of the fps elements now inplace on the hardware. Its a vastly more taxing system without a pure target lock system.
Thus they at a min. halved there cpu power on all servers. Luckily for soe they also halved there population numbers with the nge so that the increased lag wasn't as huge as it might have appeared.
Added onto that was increased database size, more code lines to execute client and server side and no hardware expansions on a system orginally scoped and designed around an entirely different game model..
Pure total lunacy to expect this to function and I highly doubt this was server stress tested. Add ontop of that the following lag as lag builds more lag. Client x initiates 10 clicks. He doesn't get a response and issues 10 more clicks. The server is now passed 10 clicks and then 20 clicks back to the client
FPS are vastly more hardware intensive and result in mass pvp stragey being standing still to optimize rate of fire. Forming a variable wall of clicking players standing still and controlling an area. It becomes a civil war battle and is stupidly boring imho.
Wonder why they have issues now? Pft anyone with basic experience in database design and query optimization would tell you that what they did and expected of the servers is pure insanity.
Infact I bet 100 clients could at any given time crash the server entirely by locking the server software by getting together and pvping. Doing nothing more then clicking on each other repeatedly. Infact I challenge test center to get 100 players to be overt at 1 location and start clicking on each other and see what happens to the server. I bet it crashes because the cpu's cannot keep up with the sql coordinate requests from the clients.
Lucas Arts
One day the Left hand will talk to the Right hand.... OR listen to people that warned them, predicted this- or knew it would happen.
This is like saying the game will have 50% broken quests... How do I know which ones? I don't have to, I base this on performance, history and commmon sense.
This is like saying "were sorry" for forcing the NGE.... sure it sounds good to some people but they still freaking did it.
KARMA --- it will win in the end.
______________________________
I usually picture the Career builder commercial with the room full of monkeys and upside down sales chart when thinking about the SOE/SWG decision making process.....
SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes." Ref NGE
Winner of the worst MMOS goes to.... the NGE and SWG..!!! http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadFeature=1034&bhcp=1
Typical post on this mess ....
SlimJimmy wrote:
Sago Mactow
Former SWG 2yr 7 month Vet
6/26/03 - 1/26/06
Jedi, Master Shipwright, Master Architect
DFR Councilman
Tarq Server
This says it all:
Let's see, where to begin...
Hey Dev's: GET OFF YOUR ARROGANT HIGHHORSE, AND ADMIT YOU SCREWED UP!!! Own up to YOUR mistakes! How can you not get that????
I'll start my own SWG... with Black Jack... and Hookers!!!
In fact, forget the SWG!!!!
heres a thread with some of the more positive aspects of the restuss event, altough i must agree that the whole city-exploding thing was a failure, it wasnt more of a failure then every combat event pre cu and at least now the devs are heading in the right direction. Not to mention that battlefields are back, yay!
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=swggpdiscussion&message.id=963914
_____________________
I am the flipside of the coin on which the troll and the fanboy are but one side.
I'll start my own SWG... with Black Jack... and Hookers!!!
In fact, forget the SWG!!!!
Greatwarrior Wrote:
experience, why should this not be? The argument that its a paying
server is null and void because every game and every paying product
that goes on the marketing is a test in itself. Will people buy that
product.. do things need to be changed with that product.. why do you
think games come out with patches? Seriously.. calm down and THINK
before you complain.
Eclipse we've had 6 huge player events in our history that had the
exact same lag situation) it went ok. Hopefully this event was a good
learning experience to fix up some lag issues and have the next one a
bit better. I'm still waiting for my combat vehicles
rofl rofl rofl.
For the Horde!
Any company with ethics and integrity ensures that the features and functionality of a commercial product have been tested to the point where it is usable before it is released (sold) to the public. Yes, there may be problems, but they are rare or highly minimized and have workarounds if necessary. Crashing is a HUGE no-no to knowingly release.
So, because SOE admitted that they knew there would be issues to the level that there were (unplayable), this all qualifies as pay-to-test beta software, NOT A RELEASED PRODUCT.
If you are playing SWG today, you are a beta tester, not the user of a finished product, and you're paying for the privilege. If you're OK with that, that's fine with me. But "Greatwarrior" is f*cked in the head.
Actually, believe it or not, alot of what has been added to the game has inspired me to read up about it. With ROTW for instance, I found my selflooking up Kashyyyyk and reading about it, Necrosis, the BARC speeders, etc. I found myself following other links through the Databank (and the Wiki) to other topics and before I knew it, I'd spent over 3 hours reading up on some Star Wars history. Same with ToOW, I started looking up about Mustafar, Mustafarians, HK-47, the Droid Factory, etc.
Before SWG, I had not watched any of the Star Wars movies, it was until March last year that I actually hired them all out and finally watched them. If it wasn't for SWG, I likely would have never become interested in SW. It was pretty cool to watch them and be able to say "I've been to that city, I've walked along that path, I've killed that creature, I've worn that armour, etc."
In my case at least, the game might not introduce stuff that is completely appropriate for the time period, but it does inspire me to look further into the other world that is SW