could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
Originally posted by damian7 Originally posted by kaibigan34
Now to my post. Why is WoW a GOOD game? 5 Million players cant be wrong! That is why.
Kai
how many asian mmo games are out that have several times as many players?
How many Western MMOs have 5 million or more? Heck how many have half that number or even 1/5th that number? Not counting WoW of course. Hmmm how many? Oh yeah NONE!!!!!!!!!!
How many Western MMOs have 5 million or more? Heck how many have half that number or even 1/5th that number? Not counting WoW of course. Hmmm how many? Oh yeah NONE!!!!!!!!!!
Kai How man restaurants have served as many customers as Mcdonalds? None. Does that mean they are the hieght of culinary delight? For some, perhaps, but not anyone with any tastebuds. Same goes for WoW. It's great in a pinch but there are just so many healthier choices out there.
Now to my post. Why is WoW a GOOD game? 5 Million players cant be wrong! That is why.
Kai
Everytime someone says this it reminds me of McDonalds.
Over 4 billion served.
Not a very good example. People eat McDonalds for many other reasons, becuase it tastes good, becuase its cheap, becuase its close to work/home, becuase its fast-served. Is it good for your health? No. But people often ignore that fact.
Originally posted by anarchyart Originally posted by kaibigan34 How many Western MMOs have 5 million or more? Heck how many have half that number or even 1/5th that number? Not counting WoW of course. Hmmm how many? Oh yeah NONE!!!!!!!!!!
Kai
How man restaurants have served as many customers as Mcdonalds? None. Does that mean they are the hieght of culinary delight? For some, perhaps, but not anyone with any tastebuds. Same goes for WoW. It's great in a pinch but there are just so many healthier choices out there.
Healthier yes, but do people play WoW because its healthy? no, becuase its fun. McDonalds maybe very bad for your health, but it tastes GOOD and its fast served... you need to look beyond one reason and take into consideration other reasons.
Ahh the old analogy of comparing WoW to McDonalds. The analogy falls apart when you ask someone to think of a mmorpg that caters to a customers individual taste. I'm assuming that because McDonalds is synonymous with poor quality cheap food that WoW is itself poor quality and cheap. A dubious link at best, naive too.
Both are very cleverly marketed which is why both have done very well. Is someone going to turn around and say that hey Everquest 2 is higher quality, because you pay more for it and hey it's exclusive because less people play it. That is just so dumb. quite frankly elitist too. Only the deluded would say another mmorpg is a "better" restaurant, they are both mass produced products. A bigmac is a mass produced product, World of Warcraft is a mass-produced product, Everquest 2 is a mass-produced product.
If you go to an exclusive restaurant, the food there is exceptional because the chef didn't go to ASDA or Tesco or Walmart, hell no. Name me ONE mmorpg where the 'chef' caters to each individual, Saga of Ryzoms Ring is probably the closest. Bloody hell it's an oxymoron because mmorpg has MASSIVE in it for crying out loud.
If anything McDonalds is superior to World of Warcraft, at least you get a choice and the queues are shorter. Stop the dumb analogy please everyone, just make yourselves sound like a retard.
Air must be shit because 6 billion people breath it.
Originally posted by anarchyart Originally posted by kaibigan34 How many Western MMOs have 5 million or more? Heck how many have half that number or even 1/5th that number? Not counting WoW of course. Hmmm how many? Oh yeah NONE!!!!!!!!!!
Kai
How man restaurants have served as many customers as Mcdonalds? None. Does that mean they are the hieght of culinary delight? For some, perhaps, but not anyone with any tastebuds. Same goes for WoW. It's great in a pinch but there are just so many healthier choices out there.
There are 3 reasons why WoW is so successful.
1. Its easy to get into and understand. The learning curve is almost nil. This is great for both hardcore and casual players. Personally I like extreme learning curve games like Pre-Cu SWG but doubt I will ever see something like that for many years. If a game did come out with a steep learning curve I would dump WoW in a heartbeat.
2. It has the best of other MMOs. They basically took things/ideas that worked from other MMOs and incorporated into theirs. You can see this when you play the game. And there were literally hundreds of thousands of players across the nation who wished for something like this. Most MMOs have a handful of features that attract players. WoW has many many more.
3. Finally the biggest reason is the game freaking works. I have been playing it since January and honestly have encountered zero bugs, issues, problems. I do know this game has them but I have yet to see even one.
Number 3 is the reason I play. I am tired of having to fight a game just to get it playable. And I shouldnt have too. No one should. Games should come out as bug free as possible. But we allow them greater freedom every year. Its getting so bad that one day a game will come out so bad and in such horrible shape yet everyone will buy it. Thankfully WoW is stopping that trend.
Is there things I would like to see in WoW? Of course. Housing is top of that list and more graveyards to respawn so you dont spend 20 minutes running. Is WoW perfect? No. But show me a MMO that is perfect in every way. I dare you or anyone. Because you cant please everyone. Its impossible. However I think WoW has gotten as close as you can get in that regard.
Originally posted by kaibigan34 Originally posted by Kyoruto
No it doesn't JR. I'm sorry if main stream means good to you no matter what. Its funny cause I never said anything like what you're trying to agrue about with the mobs and crap like that. Numbers doesn't mean anything more then popularity.
Numbers means they are doing something right. You can sit there and argue WoW sucks all you want but it definately doesnt suck compared to ALL the other MMOs out there since the thing has the most players out there.
Yeah It doesn't mean that to me. And you're trying to argue and opinion. Just cause X amount of people like playing the game thats their choice. And I never agrued the game was crap. I was agruing that you are just being opinionated. AT least when I agrue with GL he knows that its his opinion and doesn't force it on people. Its funny cause I never said this game was shit. You again ASSUME I said it. You really need to stop that.
Because yeah those millions of subs aren't just blizzard fans and the game doesn't have the words Diablo, starcraft, or warcraft in it. I'm sorry you obviously can't see that.
Actually I hate Diablo and everything else Blizzard puts out. But I enjoy WoW. Oh and with your reasoning why doesnt SWG have BILLIONS of subs since its got Star Wars on the title. UO doesnt have Millions. Neither does FFXI. All huge names but not major MMOs. I wonder why... Oh yeah because a name will only take a game just so far and your trying to grasp at straws now.
Really... No I'm not. Blizzard has always always had a strong fan base. I find more people that HATE what you just mentioned then I do people that love it. (The franchise since I'm going to have to be more spacific for you)
Then again you must thing Halo is the greatest FPS on the market. I could name quite a few games that doesn't have problems, but you'd just go into a hole and try your best to attack me or the game. Twisted metal the modles are very different. Oh but you said game and not MMO so you're going to say I meant MMO. Engrosing stories? Well warcraft 3.
Actually I did mean MMO. But yes other games use repetitive models as well. Half-Life, Command and Conquer, Far-Cry. As for Twisted Metal I never played it. Engrossing stories yes I did say MMO. Now show me an MMO that has more then 8 basic stories. Or is this an attempt to dissuade the arguement because you know you cant show me an MMO that has more then 8 basic quest/mission types?
See then you should of been more spacific. And the modles in half-life yeah since it was released when now? Half-life 2 got better at different modles, but I mean when you have combine that are meant to wear a the same unifurm cause they are like the law infrocement you really can't deviate that much. And I know you said MMO for story. I wasn't agrueing anything from story until you again assumed and thought I was attacking WoW which I wasn't. Just saying you can't go and say X amount of people can't be wrong. And you can't say they are wrong. It is just a choice and I'm trying to make you see that, but I feel that its in vain.
That still doesn't screw up its own lore. Not to meantion there is FF6. But then again I didn't say anything about problems either. You just again assumed that.
Its own lore? So your saying that one of the reasons WoW is bad is because they mess up their own lore? Just want to be clear here. Because its THEIR lore. They can do whatever they want with it. If it had failed then you might have something to argue about. Enterprise messed up the ST lore and guess what it? It failed. SWG messed up SW lore and its failing. But WoW didnt fail. 5 Million means its a success. More successful then any other western MMO out there.
Do you like... Stop assuming shit? I mean could that possably happen. I never said WoW was shit or that its a bad game so stop making an ass outa yourself and me by assuming I'm bashing the game. ANd quit qouting numbers. Is that supposed to impress me that people other then me want to do something else? I don't care about those people cause I don't know them. I know.. Its very easy to do that. And, we'll see when the expasion rolls around. I know I don't like what they are doing to WoW thats why I stopped paying for it. OMG! Yeah I played the damn game get over yourself and your self-rightious crusade to protect this game though someone just called me out for just using numbers and opinions and thats all.
So JR. Numbers only make popularity. If you don't beleave me there is a great game that I bet you never heard of called Phantom Dust. Yeah its a great game with little reconition. Does it make it a bad game? NO! The game itself makes it a good game.
Phantom Dust on the Xbox? Yeah its cool. As long as you got an Xbox. Its great if you like the whole Pokemon, Card Captor kinda stuff. I dont care for that since the market is already so swamped with those types of shows, games, books etc. But of those types of games it is definately good. Especially in Asia where its a big success and the numbers once again prove a game's success. Try again Stimey.
Uh? Oh I get it you're trying to make me mad. Haha! Thats great I bet you don't even know what that game is about! You have no idea about this game and you again make generalizations. Well, boy how can I beat someone that just lies about everything and makes up fake problems. Well Mr.Emo I guess you win this round.
You can't convice me with numbers that WoW is fun cause thats impossable. I've actually played the game and I don't think its fun.
I dont think Counterstrike is fun but it was a good game for a long time. I was hoping you were smart enough to understand that. Guess not Sport. WoW may not be fun for you but its fun for 5 million others.
Again I never said I didn't think WoW wasn't a good game. You keep assuming and assuming. You said it was the best game. And I said it was your opinion of that. If you orginally said it was a good game I would of agreed. But, since you're trying to be smart by twisting your own words to help you that really doesn't matter anymore.
So go join your little scientology cult like I said and leave the actaul people that don't make random assumtions here to disscuss.
Tell me about attacking you yet here you are telling me I should join a cult. Hmmm. There is a word I am thinking about. Can you guess it? It starts with Hypo.........
Campus? I orginally was joking, but you wanted to make it personal so its your own fault.
THough I should speak in your native tonuge of Baahh. I really don't feel like it. You just agrued that numbers don't make people right with my example then you go and say it does with WoW. That makes no sense whatsoever.
No what I said does make sense. You just refuse to see it because you dont want to be proven wrong. But hey its ok. This is a forum and people think it really matters if they are wrong or right in a forum. So continue pretending to be stupid so you can act like your not wrong. Its cool there Tiger. I understand.
Awww.. See the whole trying to be surperior? Isn't it just so CUTE! >.< Come on give me a big ol hug you darn cutie. And you still can't be proven wrong. You say I'm the hypocrite, but you're the one that can't be proven wrong and assume I'm saying shit that I never was. I said hey these numbers right here they can't be wrong, and you said that numbers don't mean anything in real life, but tehy do in a game.So continue to stroke your own Epeen cause I bet you someone on the internet will think you're awesome for that. Personally I don't care.
XOXO - Kyo
BTW, You really should stop assuming cause thats bad for your health.
Siehst du mich Erkennst du mich Ganz tief in meinem Herz ist noch ein Platz f?r dich Ich suche dich Ich sehne mich nach dem was ich geliebt hab doch ich find es nicht
Originally posted by Xenduli Ahh the old analogy of comparing WoW to McDonalds. The analogy falls apart when you ask someone to think of a mmorpg that caters to a customers individual taste. I'm assuming that because McDonalds is synonymous with poor quality cheap food that WoW is itself poor quality and cheap. A dubious link at best, naive too. Both are very cleverly marketed which is why both have done very well. Is someone going to turn around and say that hey Everquest 2 is higher quality, because you pay more for it and hey it's exclusive because less people play it. That is just so dumb. quite frankly elitist too. Only the deluded would say another mmorpg is a "better" restaurant, they are both mass produced products. A bigmac is a mass produced product, World of Warcraft is a mass-produced product, Everquest 2 is a mass-produced product. If you go to an exclusive restaurant, the food there is exceptional because the chef didn't go to ASDA or Tesco or Walmart, hell no. Name me ONE mmorpg where the 'chef' caters to each individual, Saga of Ryzoms Ring is probably the closest. Bloody hell it's an oxymoron because mmorpg has MASSIVE in it for crying out loud. If anything McDonalds is superior to World of Warcraft, at least you get a choice and the queues are shorter. Stop the dumb analogy please everyone, just make yourselves sound like a retard. Air must be shit because 6 billion people breath it.
How about the other analogy someone posted in here about fat people and WoW? You dont choose to be fat but you choose to play WoW. I have yet to meet even one person who woke up one day and decided "Hey I am going to gain 200 pounds so I can have a risk at heart attacks and look like a slob.".
These guys are grasping at straws now. Compare the negative reactions of this game to any other and its quite surprising. Yet some hate WoW. But considering the positive comments versus the negative and you get a very low ratio. Then look at a game like SWG where all you have to do is start a post saying "SWG" on any open MMO forum and you get negative comment after negative comment.
I actually agree with some of the things in the OPs first thread. But he or anyone else has yet to offer up any MMO that doesnt do all those things. That too me is the big clincher. Everything he says that makes WoW bad is in all MMOs. Not just WoW. So he should have titled this thread "Why MMOs are bad" and put it in the general section.
basically blizzard had an idea..then looked at all the other games on the market..plastered wow in make up and whored the game out to the masses....losing their original idea.
Originally posted by ronan32 wow will have its day until WAR comes out...then blizzard will lose all their subs and start work on world of starcraft.
WoW is friggen Terrible! The biggest Noob MMO EVER! I'm sure that will flame some of ya.
but seriously! WAR will be the best quality to come out here soon! I mean Warhammer is what started it all! Its awesome. This game may not get as many subscribers, but We'll get enough.
World of Starcraft is gonna be terrible too.
-- Dont kill the starcraft franchise with a terrible mmo
Originally posted by asupermane Originally posted by ronan32 wow will have its day until WAR comes out...then blizzard will lose all their subs and start work on world of starcraft.
WoW is friggen Terrible! The biggest Noob MMO EVER! I'm sure that will flame some of ya.
but seriously! WAR will be the best quality to come out here soon! I mean Warhammer is what started it all! Its awesome. This game may not get as many subscribers, but We'll get enough.
World of Starcraft is gonna be terrible too.
-- Dont kill the starcraft franchise with a terrible mmo
See, if I actually said something remotely like that. Then I'd be able to get a "You said that WoW sucks" Comments, but I didn't. /tangent
Well, I mean it would almost be virually impossable to make a 1) Well blanaced Starcraft game 2)One that didn't completely buthcer the idea of starcraft. (Exaple... Say they made it also raid heavy... What would we be raiding? Carriors?) 3) We still have no idea what this 4th race is. So we would still need to get a starcraft 2 coming out... Not to meantion Ghost. 4)Because Blizzard North is virually no more, we can assume nothing of starcraft will be made anytime soon. (That includes Ghost. T_T Farwell Ghost, we hardly knew ye!)
Siehst du mich Erkennst du mich Ganz tief in meinem Herz ist noch ein Platz f?r dich Ich suche dich Ich sehne mich nach dem was ich geliebt hab doch ich find es nicht
In your first reply to one of my posts you made a very bad comparison. Trying to compare what I said "5 million people cant be wrong" to 60% of the people are fat so they cant be wrong is a very poor comparison. You choose to play WoW. You dont choose to be fat. Correct me if I am wrong here. But I never had some big mafiaso guy come to my door, shove WoW in my hands, and then tell me "If you dont play this game, I will come by everyday and smash your face in!". Also I never had anyone tell me "Hey I wanted to put on 300 pounds and get laughed at!".
When I said "5 million players cant be wrong." I meant, the success of the game. Not the popularity. There is a difference between popularity and success. Everquest is popular. May not have as many subs but I guaruntee its more popular. There are, as yet undiscovered, tribes in the Amazon that know what Everquest is. But not WoW. I talk to people in the real world about WoW all the time and alot of the time they dont know what WoW is. But once I say its like Everquest they understand what it is. However WoW is more successful then Everquest as WoW has what? 10 times the player base?
But you "assumed" I meant popularity didnt you? The samething you were chastizing me about in your last reply to my posts. Its bad enough you say I will "go into my hole" and try my best to attack you yet your the one attacking me. And for what? Because you said I assumed too much. Yet your the one assuming and attacking me from the get go. Way to go there genius. You even go further by saying its my fault because I wanted to make it personal. Yet who is the one saying I should go join a cult then when you find you cant win you resort to out right insults? Hmmmm.....Its you isnt it? Personally I dont care about winning or losing in an argument on a forum. Guess why... Because even if someone wins a forum argument they are still retarded.
Anyway thats neither here nor there. I am not going to continue to discuss this topic with someone who uses childish attacks. You go have fun with your Phantom Dust.
Oh on a side note. Phantom Dust is where you play a SP game and collect powers in your "Arsenal Case". You then take these powers and go online to fight. There are around 300 powers to collect and you can hold 30 at a time to fight with. Similiar to another concept where you collect monsters called Pokemons and then battle with others using these monsters. Also another one where you collect cards to fight your opponents with. Its quite a common game type in Japan and Asia in general. I lived in Asia for quite awhile including when Phantom Dust came out there. It is very popular in Japan with the 10 to 12 year olds. Again its a good game. I sent an Xbox to the Philippines for my family there. Last time I went back I took a copy of that game with me. Kept my 12 year old nephew occupied for weeks.
the Mc donalds analogy is a good one but as we have seen WOW supporters ahve either missunderstood it or delibertly misinterpreted its meaning.
Basically the guy using the Mc Donalds anology was saying that true a lot of people are palying WoW compared to other games because its easy to get into. And because of its simplicity its popular [like Big Macs are tasty and popular ] . Of course there are better and tastier foods you can buy but they do cost more.
However there are other games out there that dont have as many people playing them as WOW has but then again these games do have other things going for them that WOW doesant of course its these other things that make these games less aproachable to new players than WoW so they go to WoW if they cant get over these games learning curve. Of course if someone gets over the curve in these games you get Loyal game players [like me for example].
My personall saying tho is if you are having fun why not.
In your first reply to one of my posts you made a very bad comparison. Trying to compare what I said "5 million people cant be wrong" to 60% of the people are fat so they cant be wrong is a very poor comparison. You choose to play WoW. You dont choose to be fat. Correct me if I am wrong here. But I never had some big mafiaso guy come to my door, shove WoW in my hands, and then tell me "If you dont play this game, I will come by everyday and smash your face in!". Also I never had anyone tell me "Hey I wanted to put on 300 pounds and get laughed at!".
You were agruing nubmers though. That wasn't the only thing I was agruing with numbers. I could of gone into religion too with numbers, but that was too obvious and I like the abstract. I really don't get the whole mafia mentality referance to WoW but whatever.
When I said "5 million players cant be wrong." I meant, the success of the game. Not the popularity. There is a difference between popularity and success. Everquest is popular. May not have as many subs but I guaruntee its more popular. There are, as yet undiscovered, tribes in the Amazon that know what Everquest is. But not WoW. I talk to people in the real world about WoW all the time and alot of the time they dont know what WoW is. But once I say its like Everquest they understand what it is. However WoW is more successful then Everquest as WoW has what? 10 times the player base?
Success is just meeting or exceeding the numbers you planned. So any game that meets or exceeds that is in turn a success. I wasn't agruing that, but you keep making up these agruements. And I really don't know why. This was always about your opinion that you were trying to state as fact. Saying that this game is great because of the numbers. Greatness I feel can't be desribed on such a low level as a game. Thats like insulting everyone who actually whent out did something truely great in the world.
But you "assumed" I meant popularity didnt you? The samething you were chastizing me about in your last reply to my posts. Its bad enough you say I will "go into my hole" and try my best to attack you yet your the one attacking me. And for what? Because you said I assumed too much. Yet your the one assuming and attacking me from the get go. Way to go there genius. You even go further by saying its my fault because I wanted to make it personal. Yet who is the one saying I should go join a cult then when you find you cant win you resort to out right insults? Hmmmm.....Its you isnt it? Personally I dont care about winning or losing in an argument on a forum. Guess why... Because even if someone wins a forum argument they are still retarded.
No I didn't at all assume you meant popularity. You said that numbers made something great, and that is only in the eyes of the beholder. Good on the other had is less of an opinion and more of a solid truth. Cause you really can't have a bad game and be popular. Unless of-course you can't halo!
Anyway thats neither here nor there. I am not going to continue to discuss this topic with someone who uses childish attacks. You go have fun with your Phantom Dust.
Because calling someone childish deffinitly doesn't make you one at all. I'm not the one who made up agruements here. You're just upset that whenever you qoute numbers everyone is like "yeah... Who cares?" numbers don't mean anything if I don't like it.
Oh on a side note. Phantom Dust is where you play a SP game and collect powers in your "Arsenal Case". You then take these powers and go online to fight. There are around 300 powers to collect and you can hold 30 at a time to fight with. Similiar to another concept where you collect monsters called Pokemons and then battle with others using these monsters. Also another one where you collect cards to fight your opponents with. Its quite a common game type in Japan and Asia in general. I lived in Asia for quite awhile including when Phantom Dust came out there. It is very popular in Japan with the 10 to 12 year olds. Again its a good game. I sent an Xbox to the Philippines for my family there. Last time I went back I took a copy of that game with me. Kept my 12 year old nephew occupied for weeks.
I still don't see pokemon... But whatever you say. You think you're going to be right no matter what. Its more like a MTG game to me. Which I've been playing since I was 10. Lets see... You have 20hp Magic style (I don't dissagree that you collect 'cards') 5 different styles. Very much like R,g,bu,bk,w magic. I still see it as a game inspired by Magic the Gathering. I'm glad you nephew knows a good game when he sees it. I still think its very funny how you say you don't attack, but you've been trying to demean me the whole time. Saying a 12year old likes the game makes it for kids. News flash 8year olds play WOW. So great job there. You defeated whatever you were trying to prove. OMG! 12 year olds play GTA too! They're everywhere!We should do something about this. Like stop people from humping or something. This might be an epademic.
See yah sport. Kai
Siehst du mich Erkennst du mich Ganz tief in meinem Herz ist noch ein Platz f?r dich Ich suche dich Ich sehne mich nach dem was ich geliebt hab doch ich find es nicht
Originally posted by kaibigan34 Originally posted by Kyoruto Originally posted by kaibigan34 Now to my post. Why is WoW a GOOD game? 5 Million players cant be wrong! That is why.
Kai
If you beleave that I got a cult you can join. Its called Scientology. Celebs can't be wrong can they? They are better then normal people so they > normal people. Not to meantion the normal people that got douped... I mean found the light. 60% of americans are highly over wieght. They can't be wrong. Thats why they diet to get healthy and fit.
You can't say because of numbers that makes something good. It doesn't make sense. There are more nongamers then gamers. So the nongamers must be right.
No you dont get it. Total numbers compared to other games. Obviously WoW is doing something right. If they didnt then they would have alot less players. So they hit the right note. Hence having 5 million players proves they are doing something right.
Take alook at games like EQ2, SWG, AA, etc. Yah for some of the players in those games the game is good but it obviously isnt as good as WoW because WoW has up 50 times the total number of players.
Get it now sparky? You can say that game is good or this game is over there is good but it boils down to numbers. WoW has brought more then the market share of people into it. Far more. that in and of itself proves WoW is a good game. Yah it has problems but they are minimal at best. Show me a game without any problems. I dare you.
Oh no they use repetitive models. Again show me a game that doesnt use repetitive models.
Oh dear the quests are the same quests just different stories. Show me a game that doesnt do this. There are only 8 basic quest or mission types you can do in an MMO.
Doesn't mean there's much depth to it, it just means that there are a lot of mid to high school kids who enjoy simplistic "hack n slash - collect the loot" titles, and knew that Blizzard would deliver just that. They'll tire of it when there's a lack of adult and tolerant players to flaunt their farmed gear to. There's nothing left of the game once you've collected all there is to collect.
You'll also notice that World of Warcraft has the highest revenue from game time cards than any other MMO. Tells you a little something about the community, eh?
World of Warcraft made all the money they're going to get from the retail boxes (no new players, as they've attracted all the market they can at launch), and the monthly revenue will slim out over time. So they release an expansion pack to unlock some content that's already in the retail package to generate more some cash flow and give them more stalling time for them to cobble together their next expansion of already-present content. World of Warcraft is a fad, it will pass in time.
Name games that don't have repeated quests and uses a variety of models and environments? Games without problems related to exploits and community?
Graphical Variety: Any game, you say? Well, go to every single player game developer's website and list the names of their games from A - Z. Start with Atari and end with Vivendi Universal... every game they've made has more graphical variety than World of Warcraft. I am bold enough to say this because it's true.
Bug Free: There is not a single piece of software to this date that exists without any bug. Games without noteable exploits? Not World of Warcraft, the shamans can still use sentry totems for various ways of cheating, among other exploits related to toher classes and races, but that has been the most noteable even since beta, and has not been fixed. There are many problems with every game, but Blizzard is the worst about fixing them... rogues had to wait about a month to get their stealth/vanish fully functional again. How would you like it if you had to wait a month or two for Steam to make a patch where you can shoot a gun in CS? Yeah, it's that bad.
Community: As I hinted before, the community in World of Warcraft is mostly from Diablo 2. Did that have much depth or freedom? No. So an single/multiplayer audience is populating WoW. Technically, Wow is just a bigger version of D2 with two sides instead of one.
EVE Online, Star Wars Galaxies (pre-NGE), Saga of Ryzom, and EQ 1 and 2 each have a better community than WoW (even SWG after the NGE), but there's a smaller number. You know that over half of America's population has an IQ of 98 or lower? Here's a question: were a majority of America's people correct for voting for Clinton and Bush? They can't be wrong... look where they are now and tell me that over 51% of the US was not wrong.
"5 Million people can't be wrong", huh? I can safely say that 150,000,000 people were wrong in 1993 and up to today.
Originally posted by Plasuma!!! Originally posted by kaibigan34 Originally posted by Kyoruto Originally posted by kaibigan34 Now to my post. Why is WoW a GOOD game? 5 Million players cant be wrong! That is why.
Kai
If you beleave that I got a cult you can join. Its called Scientology. Celebs can't be wrong can they? They are better then normal people so they > normal people. Not to meantion the normal people that got douped... I mean found the light. 60% of americans are highly over wieght. They can't be wrong. Thats why they diet to get healthy and fit.
You can't say because of numbers that makes something good. It doesn't make sense. There are more nongamers then gamers. So the nongamers must be right.
No you dont get it. Total numbers compared to other games. Obviously WoW is doing something right. If they didnt then they would have alot less players. So they hit the right note. Hence having 5 million players proves they are doing something right.
Take alook at games like EQ2, SWG, AA, etc. Yah for some of the players in those games the game is good but it obviously isnt as good as WoW because WoW has up 50 times the total number of players.
Get it now sparky? You can say that game is good or this game is over there is good but it boils down to numbers. WoW has brought more then the market share of people into it. Far more. that in and of itself proves WoW is a good game. Yah it has problems but they are minimal at best. Show me a game without any problems. I dare you.
Oh no they use repetitive models. Again show me a game that doesnt use repetitive models.
Oh dear the quests are the same quests just different stories. Show me a game that doesnt do this. There are only 8 basic quest or mission types you can do in an MMO.
Doesn't mean there's much depth to it, it just means that there are a lot of mid to high school kids who enjoy simplistic "hack n slash - collect the loot" titles, and knew that Blizzard would deliver just that. They'll tire of it when there's a lack of adult and tolerant players to flaunt their farmed gear to. There's nothing left of the game once you've collected all there is to collect.
and as we both know, Diablo 2's online service is still running this day. see, not everybody is looking for depth. for some people depth is fun, for (obviously most) its just damn annoying.
You'll also notice that World of Warcraft has the highest revenue from game time cards than any other MMO. Tells you a little something about the community, eh?
I see you have a reliable source to back up this statement?
World of Warcraft made all the money they're going to get from the retail boxes (no new players, as they've attracted all the market they can at launch), and the monthly revenue will slim out over time. So they release an expansion pack to unlock some content that's already in the retail package to generate more some cash flow and give them more stalling time for them to cobble together their next expansion of already-present content. World of Warcraft is a fad, it will pass in time.
Name games that don't have repeated quests and uses a variety of models and environments? Games without problems related to exploits and community?
Graphical Variety: Any game, you say? Well, go to every single player game developer's website and list the names of their games from A - Z. Start with Atari and end with Vivendi Universal... every game they've made has more graphical variety than World of Warcraft. I am bold enough to say this because it's true.
Bug Free: There is not a single piece of software to this date that exists without any bug. Games without noteable exploits? Not World of Warcraft, the shamans can still use sentry totems for various ways of cheating, among other exploits related to toher classes and races, but that has been the most noteable even since beta, and has not been fixed. There are many problems with every game, but Blizzard is the worst about fixing them... rogues had to wait about a month to get their stealth/vanish fully functional again. How would you like it if you had to wait a month or two for Steam to make a patch where you can shoot a gun in CS? Yeah, it's that bad.
Compared to other MMO's, WoW is very bug free.
Community: As I hinted before, the community in World of Warcraft is mostly from Diablo 2. Did that have much depth or freedom? No. So an single/multiplayer audience is populating WoW. Technically, Wow is just a bigger version of D2 with two sides instead of one.
You have nothing to back up your statement, and your just assuming. from my experience, most people are still against a monthly fee. and the amount of children that are allowed to pay for a monthly fee is even lower.
EVE Online, Star Wars Galaxies (pre-NGE), Saga of Ryzom, and EQ 1 and 2 each have a better community than WoW (even SWG after the NGE), but there's a smaller number. You know that over half of America's population has an IQ of 98 or lower? Here's a question: were a majority of America's people correct for voting for Clinton and Bush? They can't be wrong... look where they are now and tell me that over 51% of the US was not wrong.
so we are going to compare politics to games now? do you start to get a clue how rediculous it sounds?
you know whats even more ignorant? Saying 6.5 million people ARE wrong, despite the fact WoW is the highest rated MMORPG according to reviews, and has more awards then all other MMO's together.
"5 Million people can't be wrong", huh? I can safely say that 150,000,000 people were wrong in 1993 and up to today.
Getting from level 60 to level 70 in Burning Crusade will take the same amount of time it took to get from 1-60 in the current game.
"release an expansion pack to unlock some content that's already in the retail package"
Would you like some more straws to clutch? I hear McDonalds give them away....
If you going to compare WoW to McDonalds at the very least put some effort into it.
Blizzard Entertainment was founded in 1991 headquartered in Irvine, California. McDonalds was founded in 1948 and is based in Oak Brook, Illinois.
The Blizzard research and development group is comprised of more than 250 designers, producers, programmers, artists, and sound engineers. As of July 14, 2006, McDonalds operates approximately 31,000 restaurants in 100 countries employing more than 1.5 million people.
Blizzard Entertainment has announced that they will be producing a Warcraft live-action movie. Super Size Me was "An irreverent look at obesity in America and one of its sources - fast food corporations."
McDonalds has assets worth almost $30,000 million, profits last year were $2,602 million. Vivendi enjoyed a 24 percent increase in revenues for the first half of the year compared to the same period last year, pulling in 296 million euros ($377.6 million).
Rob Pardo, the lead designer of World of Warcraft, is named one of the 100 most influential people in the world by Time Magazine.
Well, Gameloading, I'm sure you can back up your rebuttals. Any links? I gave one, at least.
You can ask gamestop.com yourself which time card product has the most sales. I'm not at liberty to give the email they sent due to an automatic electronic privacy contract.
Please give me proof that WoW is more bug free than other MMOs. From my experience of playing since launch, they have left many crippling bugs in the game which players take full advantage of. Let me know when you've played more than one MMO, then you can try to defend your precious game.
Where do you get "and the amount of children allowed to pay a monthly fee is even lower" from? You're assuming as well, or possibly your parents are a little more strict than others. Please give some evidence that you so much desire from me. Prove to me that you're a better person for explaining the state of World of Warcraft.
I can tell that you wouldn't understand a single shred of it anyway... "rediculous", it's spelled "ridiculous", by the way.
Tell me why 6 million people are not wrong, while during your elections since 1993, over 150 million have been wrong... 4 times, was it? You do realize that Clinton set up NAFTA? China's getting a hell of a deal out of it, matching their currency to the dollar; while your currency is worth less than the english pound as of today, and steadily dropping. Bush and his war doesn't help either.
You want proof? It's right in your face, you're too ignorant to look past your own veil of stupidity. I'll laugh when you try to defend World of Warcraft based on numbers again, you know very well it doesn't hold water. That said, would you like to further prove the state of intelligence in America with another response?
Originally posted by kaibigan34 Originally posted by damian7
Originally posted by kaibigan34
Now to my post. Why is WoW a GOOD game? 5 Million players cant be wrong! That is why.
Kai
how many asian mmo games are out that have several times as many players?
How many Western MMOs have 5 million or more? Heck how many have half that number or even 1/5th that number? Not counting WoW of course. Hmmm how many? Oh yeah NONE!!!!!!!!!!
Kai
i know, as long as we're limiting online games to just the western hemisphere, let's limit it to only online games that come out of kansas, usa~!! makes as much sense as your post.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
the topic is "why wow is a bad game". there are actually people that continue to post "wow can't be a bad game because it has X million subs". me, if i were going to defend wow, i would say something intelligent. something like, "wow is great because it has raids and i can spend hundreds of hours in the same dungeon without dying a lot".
not that i believe that loving raiding = intelligence. i think it = i am really bored and can't think of a better way to spend my life. or maybe it = i'm stupid. who knows.
at any rate. if all you can do is say "it's sold most copies" "it's got most subs" "it's got most awards".
then 1 - do your research. if you're going to say "it's got the most subs", then make that a TRUE statement. "it's got the most subs of any game based in the United States". i for one, find it rather offensive that people are willfully ignoring the east. if you're going to be a fanboy worshipper, then at least make truthful statements about your god.
for the record, you don't have to be activelly sub'd to a game to be a fanboy. all you have to do is act, and post like a fanboy. that's what makes a fanboy.
next, other than intentional trolling, how exactly is stating "it's sold most copies" "it's got most subs" "it's got most awards" doing anything for you? i mean, i can understand some people get their jollies from trolling. but come on now, the same exact, tired, WRONG "logic" behind this thinking two months ago, is the same WRONG "logic" behind it now.
there are many movies, singers/bands, actors, et cetera that have sold many millions of copies and won many awards. that means they're popular and/or a fad. only their groupies (fanbois) would argue that they are the best. yet, on a board where people compare thoughts, have INTELLIGENT discussion about games and claim to be over 13 years old, we have completely illogical foundations of arguments repeated ad nauseum.
why?
well, here's a link to britney spears' lecture on semiconductor physics:
i think it will explain the thinking behind the "it's sold most copies" "it's got most subs" "it's got most awards" iareafanboyandirefusetomakelogicalargumentsbaseduponanythoughtsotherthandemandingeveryonebealemmingandfollowmygod "logic" far better than i ever could.
so the next time you read someone's post about "wow is the best because it has the most subs", you just think back to the britney semiconductor physics lectures and you'll understand where they're coming from.
for now, just sit back, have a tall cold one, and enjoy the show.
here's a fact.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
Originally posted by Xenduli Cobble together an expansion eh? Getting from level 60 to level 70 in Burning Crusade will take the same amount of time it took to get from 1-60 in the current game. Now tell me, is this fact or an estimation? They originally thought level 60 would be achievable only in months of playing. You can hit 60 within two weeks. "release an expansion pack to unlock some content that's already in the retail package" The OP gives plenty of information about this. It's all there, the company wants to make some money by shafting the consumer. Would you like some more straws to clutch? I hear McDonalds give them away.... If you going to compare WoW to McDonalds at the very least put some effort into it. Blizzard Entertainment was founded in 1991 headquartered in Irvine, California. McDonald’s was founded in 1948 and is based in Oak Brook, Illinois. The Blizzard research and development group is comprised of more than 250 designers, producers, programmers, artists, and sound engineers. As of July 14, 2006, McDonalds operates approximately 31,000 restaurants in 100 countries employing more than 1.5 million people. Bioware had a development team of under 110 people work on Neverwinter Nights, I spent more time and had more fun getting to level 40 with one character in that game than I did getting to 60 twice in WoW. Blizzard Entertainment has announced that they will be producing a Warcraft live-action movie. Super Size Me was "An irreverent look at obesity in America and one of its sources - fast food corporations." McDonalds has assets worth almost $30,000 million, profits last year were $2,602 million. Vivendi enjoyed a 24 percent increase in revenues for the first half of the year compared to the same period last year, pulling in 296 million euros ($377.6 million). That they did, but what are the market standings now? There is no increase, and a hint of a slight decline. Rob Pardo, the lead designer of World of Warcraft, is named one of the 100 most influential people in the world by Time Magazine. Top 100 most influential. Out of 100 people, what number was he, by chance?
Very interesting you should choose to respond to multiple posts. I said not a word about McDonald's, if you recall.
Originally posted by Plasuma!!! Originally posted by Xenduli
"release an expansion pack to unlock some content that's already in the retail package" The OP gives plenty of information about this. It's all there, the company wants to make some money by shafting the consumer.
I'm going to have to agree with Plasuma. Its marketing. Which actually is used quite often in day to day life and such as that. People do use that stratagy quite often. So why wouldn't blizzard? Obviously the content was tweaked and thats fine. Why put all your cards on the table at once?
Siehst du mich Erkennst du mich Ganz tief in meinem Herz ist noch ein Platz f?r dich Ich suche dich Ich sehne mich nach dem was ich geliebt hab doch ich find es nicht
Comments
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
Nice, a burn out talks about WoW.
Everything looks the same huh?
http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/8184/nett2.gif
Skin tone, hair style, facial/eye expressions, facial hair
Professor Hubert Farnsworth - That question is less stupid but, you asked it in a profoundly stupid way.
Kai
how many asian mmo games are out that have several times as many players?
How many Western MMOs have 5 million or more? Heck how many have half that number or even 1/5th that number? Not counting WoW of course. Hmmm how many? Oh yeah NONE!!!!!!!!!!
Kai
Kai
How man restaurants have served as many customers as Mcdonalds? None. Does that mean they are the hieght of culinary delight? For some, perhaps, but not anyone with any tastebuds. Same goes for WoW. It's great in a pinch but there are just so many healthier choices out there.
Over 4 billion served.
Not a very good example. People eat McDonalds for many other reasons, becuase it tastes good, becuase its cheap, becuase its close to work/home, becuase its fast-served. Is it good for your health? No. But people often ignore that fact.
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
Healthier yes, but do people play WoW because its healthy? no, becuase its fun. McDonalds maybe very bad for your health, but it tastes GOOD and its fast served... you need to look beyond one reason and take into consideration other reasons.
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
Ahh the old analogy of comparing WoW to McDonalds. The analogy falls apart when you ask someone to think of a mmorpg that caters to a customers individual taste. I'm assuming that because McDonalds is synonymous with poor quality cheap food that WoW is itself poor quality and cheap. A dubious link at best, naive too.
Both are very cleverly marketed which is why both have done very well. Is someone going to turn around and say that hey Everquest 2 is higher quality, because you pay more for it and hey it's exclusive because less people play it. That is just so dumb. quite frankly elitist too. Only the deluded would say another mmorpg is a "better" restaurant, they are both mass produced products. A bigmac is a mass produced product, World of Warcraft is a mass-produced product, Everquest 2 is a mass-produced product.
If you go to an exclusive restaurant, the food there is exceptional because the chef didn't go to ASDA or Tesco or Walmart, hell no. Name me ONE mmorpg where the 'chef' caters to each individual, Saga of Ryzoms Ring is probably the closest. Bloody hell it's an oxymoron because mmorpg has MASSIVE in it for crying out loud.
If anything McDonalds is superior to World of Warcraft, at least you get a choice and the queues are shorter. Stop the dumb analogy please everyone, just make yourselves sound like a retard.
Air must be shit because 6 billion people breath it.
No annoying animated GIF here!
There are 3 reasons why WoW is so successful.
1. Its easy to get into and understand. The learning curve is almost nil. This is great for both hardcore and casual players. Personally I like extreme learning curve games like Pre-Cu SWG but doubt I will ever see something like that for many years. If a game did come out with a steep learning curve I would dump WoW in a heartbeat.
2. It has the best of other MMOs. They basically took things/ideas that worked from other MMOs and incorporated into theirs. You can see this when you play the game. And there were literally hundreds of thousands of players across the nation who wished for something like this. Most MMOs have a handful of features that attract players. WoW has many many more.
3. Finally the biggest reason is the game freaking works. I have been playing it since January and honestly have encountered zero bugs, issues, problems. I do know this game has them but I have yet to see even one.
Number 3 is the reason I play. I am tired of having to fight a game just to get it playable. And I shouldnt have too. No one should. Games should come out as bug free as possible. But we allow them greater freedom every year. Its getting so bad that one day a game will come out so bad and in such horrible shape yet everyone will buy it. Thankfully WoW is stopping that trend.
Is there things I would like to see in WoW? Of course. Housing is top of that list and more graveyards to respawn so you dont spend 20 minutes running. Is WoW perfect? No. But show me a MMO that is perfect in every way. I dare you or anyone. Because you cant please everyone. Its impossible. However I think WoW has gotten as close as you can get in that regard.
Kai
Numbers means they are doing something right. You can sit there and argue WoW sucks all you want but it definately doesnt suck compared to ALL the other MMOs out there since the thing has the most players out there.
Yeah It doesn't mean that to me. And you're trying to argue and opinion. Just cause X amount of people like playing the game thats their choice. And I never agrued the game was crap. I was agruing that you are just being opinionated. AT least when I agrue with GL he knows that its his opinion and doesn't force it on people. Its funny cause I never said this game was shit. You again ASSUME I said it. You really need to stop that.
Because yeah those millions of subs aren't just blizzard fans and the game doesn't have the words Diablo, starcraft, or warcraft in it. I'm sorry you obviously can't see that.
Actually I hate Diablo and everything else Blizzard puts out. But I enjoy WoW. Oh and with your reasoning why doesnt SWG have BILLIONS of subs since its got Star Wars on the title. UO doesnt have Millions. Neither does FFXI. All huge names but not major MMOs. I wonder why... Oh yeah because a name will only take a game just so far and your trying to grasp at straws now.
Really... No I'm not. Blizzard has always always had a strong fan base. I find more people that HATE what you just mentioned then I do people that love it. (The franchise since I'm going to have to be more spacific for you)
Then again you must thing Halo is the greatest FPS on the market. I could name quite a few games that doesn't have problems, but you'd just go into a hole and try your best to attack me or the game. Twisted metal the modles are very different. Oh but you said game and not MMO so you're going to say I meant MMO. Engrosing stories? Well warcraft 3.
Actually I did mean MMO. But yes other games use repetitive models as well. Half-Life, Command and Conquer, Far-Cry. As for Twisted Metal I never played it. Engrossing stories yes I did say MMO. Now show me an MMO that has more then 8 basic stories. Or is this an attempt to dissuade the arguement because you know you cant show me an MMO that has more then 8 basic quest/mission types?
See then you should of been more spacific. And the modles in half-life yeah since it was released when now? Half-life 2 got better at different modles, but I mean when you have combine that are meant to wear a the same unifurm cause they are like the law infrocement you really can't deviate that much. And I know you said MMO for story. I wasn't agrueing anything from story until you again assumed and thought I was attacking WoW which I wasn't. Just saying you can't go and say X amount of people can't be wrong. And you can't say they are wrong. It is just a choice and I'm trying to make you see that, but I feel that its in vain.
That still doesn't screw up its own lore. Not to meantion there is FF6. But then again I didn't say anything about problems either. You just again assumed that.
Its own lore? So your saying that one of the reasons WoW is bad is because they mess up their own lore? Just want to be clear here. Because its THEIR lore. They can do whatever they want with it. If it had failed then you might have something to argue about. Enterprise messed up the ST lore and guess what it? It failed. SWG messed up SW lore and its failing. But WoW didnt fail. 5 Million means its a success. More successful then any other western MMO out there.
Do you like... Stop assuming shit? I mean could that possably happen. I never said WoW was shit or that its a bad game so stop making an ass outa yourself and me by assuming I'm bashing the game. ANd quit qouting numbers. Is that supposed to impress me that people other then me want to do something else? I don't care about those people cause I don't know them. I know.. Its very easy to do that. And, we'll see when the expasion rolls around. I know I don't like what they are doing to WoW thats why I stopped paying for it. OMG! Yeah I played the damn game get over yourself and your self-rightious crusade to protect this game though someone just called me out for just using numbers and opinions and thats all.
So JR. Numbers only make popularity. If you don't beleave me there is a great game that I bet you never heard of called Phantom Dust. Yeah its a great game with little reconition. Does it make it a bad game? NO! The game itself makes it a good game.
Phantom Dust on the Xbox? Yeah its cool. As long as you got an Xbox. Its great if you like the whole Pokemon, Card Captor kinda stuff. I dont care for that since the market is already so swamped with those types of shows, games, books etc. But of those types of games it is definately good. Especially in Asia where its a big success and the numbers once again prove a game's success. Try again Stimey.
Uh? Oh I get it you're trying to make me mad. Haha! Thats great I bet you don't even know what that game is about! You have no idea about this game and you again make generalizations.
You can't convice me with numbers that WoW is fun cause thats impossable. I've actually played the game and I don't think its fun.
I dont think Counterstrike is fun but it was a good game for a long time. I was hoping you were smart enough to understand that. Guess not Sport. WoW may not be fun for you but its fun for 5 million others.
Again I never said I didn't think WoW wasn't a good game. You keep assuming and assuming. You said it was the best game. And I said it was your opinion of that. If you orginally said it was a good game I would of agreed. But, since you're trying to be smart by twisting your own words to help you that really doesn't matter anymore.
So go join your little scientology cult like I said and leave the actaul people that don't make random assumtions here to disscuss.
Tell me about attacking you yet here you are telling me I should join a cult. Hmmm. There is a word I am thinking about. Can you guess it? It starts with Hypo.........
Campus? I orginally was joking, but you wanted to make it personal so its your own fault.
THough I should speak in your native tonuge of Baahh. I really don't feel like it. You just agrued that numbers don't make people right with my example then you go and say it does with WoW. That makes no sense whatsoever.
No what I said does make sense. You just refuse to see it because you dont want to be proven wrong. But hey its ok. This is a forum and people think it really matters if they are wrong or right in a forum. So continue pretending to be stupid so you can act like your not wrong. Its cool there Tiger. I understand.
Awww.. See the whole trying to be surperior? Isn't it just so CUTE! >.< Come on give me a big ol hug you darn cutie. And you still can't be proven wrong. You say I'm the hypocrite, but you're the one that can't be proven wrong and assume I'm saying shit that I never was. I said hey these numbers right here they can't be wrong, and you said that numbers don't mean anything in real life, but tehy do in a game.
XOXO - Kyo
BTW, You really should stop assuming cause thats bad for your health.
Siehst du mich
Erkennst du mich
Ganz tief in meinem Herz
ist noch ein Platz f?r dich
Ich suche dich
Ich sehne mich
nach dem was ich geliebt hab
doch ich find es nicht
These guys are grasping at straws now. Compare the negative reactions of this game to any other and its quite surprising. Yet some hate WoW. But considering the positive comments versus the negative and you get a very low ratio. Then look at a game like SWG where all you have to do is start a post saying "SWG" on any open MMO forum and you get negative comment after negative comment.
I actually agree with some of the things in the OPs first thread. But he or anyone else has yet to offer up any MMO that doesnt do all those things. That too me is the big clincher. Everything he says that makes WoW bad is in all MMOs. Not just WoW. So he should have titled this thread "Why MMOs are bad" and put it in the general section.
Kai
basically blizzard had an idea..then looked at all the other games on the market..plastered wow in make up and whored the game out to the masses....losing their original idea.
WoW is friggen Terrible! The biggest Noob MMO EVER! I'm sure that will flame some of ya.
but seriously! WAR will be the best quality to come out here soon! I mean Warhammer is what started it all! Its awesome. This game may not get as many subscribers, but We'll get enough.
World of Starcraft is gonna be terrible too.
-- Dont kill the starcraft franchise with a terrible mmo
WoW is friggen Terrible! The biggest Noob MMO EVER! I'm sure that will flame some of ya.
but seriously! WAR will be the best quality to come out here soon! I mean Warhammer is what started it all! Its awesome. This game may not get as many subscribers, but We'll get enough.
World of Starcraft is gonna be terrible too.
-- Dont kill the starcraft franchise with a terrible mmo
See, if I actually said something remotely like that. Then I'd be able to get a "You said that WoW sucks" Comments, but I didn't. /tangent
Well, I mean it would almost be virually impossable to make a 1) Well blanaced Starcraft game 2)One that didn't completely buthcer the idea of starcraft. (Exaple... Say they made it also raid heavy... What would we be raiding? Carriors?) 3) We still have no idea what this 4th race is. So we would still need to get a starcraft 2 coming out... Not to meantion Ghost. 4)Because Blizzard North is virually no more, we can assume nothing of starcraft will be made anytime soon. (That includes Ghost. T_T Farwell Ghost, we hardly knew ye!)
Siehst du mich
Erkennst du mich
Ganz tief in meinem Herz
ist noch ein Platz f?r dich
Ich suche dich
Ich sehne mich
nach dem was ich geliebt hab
doch ich find es nicht
Kyoruto
In your first reply to one of my posts you made a very bad comparison. Trying to compare what I said "5 million people cant be wrong" to 60% of the people are fat so they cant be wrong is a very poor comparison. You choose to play WoW. You dont choose to be fat. Correct me if I am wrong here. But I never had some big mafiaso guy come to my door, shove WoW in my hands, and then tell me "If you dont play this game, I will come by everyday and smash your face in!". Also I never had anyone tell me "Hey I wanted to put on 300 pounds and get laughed at!".
When I said "5 million players cant be wrong." I meant, the success of the game. Not the popularity. There is a difference between popularity and success. Everquest is popular. May not have as many subs but I guaruntee its more popular. There are, as yet undiscovered, tribes in the Amazon that know what Everquest is. But not WoW. I talk to people in the real world about WoW all the time and alot of the time they dont know what WoW is. But once I say its like Everquest they understand what it is. However WoW is more successful then Everquest as WoW has what? 10 times the player base?
But you "assumed" I meant popularity didnt you? The samething you were chastizing me about in your last reply to my posts. Its bad enough you say I will "go into my hole" and try my best to attack you yet your the one attacking me. And for what? Because you said I assumed too much. Yet your the one assuming and attacking me from the get go. Way to go there genius. You even go further by saying its my fault because I wanted to make it personal. Yet who is the one saying I should go join a cult then when you find you cant win you resort to out right insults? Hmmmm.....Its you isnt it? Personally I dont care about winning or losing in an argument on a forum. Guess why... Because even if someone wins a forum argument they are still retarded.
Anyway thats neither here nor there. I am not going to continue to discuss this topic with someone who uses childish attacks. You go have fun with your Phantom Dust.
Oh on a side note. Phantom Dust is where you play a SP game and collect powers in your "Arsenal Case". You then take these powers and go online to fight. There are around 300 powers to collect and you can hold 30 at a time to fight with. Similiar to another concept where you collect monsters called Pokemons and then battle with others using these monsters. Also another one where you collect cards to fight your opponents with. Its quite a common game type in Japan and Asia in general. I lived in Asia for quite awhile including when Phantom Dust came out there. It is very popular in Japan with the 10 to 12 year olds. Again its a good game. I sent an Xbox to the Philippines for my family there. Last time I went back I took a copy of that game with me. Kept my 12 year old nephew occupied for weeks.
See yah sport.
Kai
the Mc donalds analogy is a good one but as we have seen WOW supporters ahve either missunderstood it or delibertly misinterpreted its meaning.
Basically the guy using the Mc Donalds anology was saying that true a lot of people are palying WoW compared to other games because its easy to get into. And because of its simplicity its popular [like Big Macs are tasty and popular
] . Of course there are better and tastier foods you can buy but they do cost more.
However there are other games out there that dont have as many people playing them as WOW has but then again these games do have other things going for them that WOW doesant of course its these other things that make these games less aproachable to new players than WoW so they go to WoW if they cant get over these games learning curve. Of course if someone gets over the curve in these games you get Loyal game players [like me for example].
My personall saying tho is if you are having fun why not.
Siehst du mich
Erkennst du mich
Ganz tief in meinem Herz
ist noch ein Platz f?r dich
Ich suche dich
Ich sehne mich
nach dem was ich geliebt hab
doch ich find es nicht
You can't say because of numbers that makes something good. It doesn't make sense. There are more nongamers then gamers. So the nongamers must be right.
No you dont get it. Total numbers compared to other games. Obviously WoW is doing something right. If they didnt then they would have alot less players. So they hit the right note. Hence having 5 million players proves they are doing something right.
Take alook at games like EQ2, SWG, AA, etc. Yah for some of the players in those games the game is good but it obviously isnt as good as WoW because WoW has up 50 times the total number of players.
Get it now sparky? You can say that game is good or this game is over there is good but it boils down to numbers. WoW has brought more then the market share of people into it. Far more. that in and of itself proves WoW is a good game. Yah it has problems but they are minimal at best. Show me a game without any problems. I dare you.
Oh no they use repetitive models. Again show me a game that doesnt use repetitive models.
Oh dear the quests are the same quests just different stories. Show me a game that doesnt do this. There are only 8 basic quest or mission types you can do in an MMO.
Kai
Diablo 2 sold 7 million copies. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diablo_2 .
Doesn't mean there's much depth to it, it just means that there are a lot of mid to high school kids who enjoy simplistic "hack n slash - collect the loot" titles, and knew that Blizzard would deliver just that. They'll tire of it when there's a lack of adult and tolerant players to flaunt their farmed gear to. There's nothing left of the game once you've collected all there is to collect.
You'll also notice that World of Warcraft has the highest revenue from game time cards than any other MMO. Tells you a little something about the community, eh?
World of Warcraft made all the money they're going to get from the retail boxes (no new players, as they've attracted all the market they can at launch), and the monthly revenue will slim out over time. So they release an expansion pack to unlock some content that's already in the retail package to generate more some cash flow and give them more stalling time for them to cobble together their next expansion of already-present content. World of Warcraft is a fad, it will pass in time.
Name games that don't have repeated quests and uses a variety of models and environments? Games without problems related to exploits and community?
Graphical Variety: Any game, you say? Well, go to every single player game developer's website and list the names of their games from A - Z. Start with Atari and end with Vivendi Universal... every game they've made has more graphical variety than World of Warcraft. I am bold enough to say this because it's true.
Bug Free: There is not a single piece of software to this date that exists without any bug. Games without noteable exploits? Not World of Warcraft, the shamans can still use sentry totems for various ways of cheating, among other exploits related to toher classes and races, but that has been the most noteable even since beta, and has not been fixed. There are many problems with every game, but Blizzard is the worst about fixing them... rogues had to wait about a month to get their stealth/vanish fully functional again. How would you like it if you had to wait a month or two for Steam to make a patch where you can shoot a gun in CS? Yeah, it's that bad.
Community: As I hinted before, the community in World of Warcraft is mostly from Diablo 2. Did that have much depth or freedom? No. So an single/multiplayer audience is populating WoW. Technically, Wow is just a bigger version of D2 with two sides instead of one.
EVE Online, Star Wars Galaxies (pre-NGE), Saga of Ryzom, and EQ 1 and 2 each have a better community than WoW (even SWG after the NGE), but there's a smaller number. You know that over half of America's population has an IQ of 98 or lower? Here's a question: were a majority of America's people correct for voting for Clinton and Bush? They can't be wrong... look where they are now and tell me that over 51% of the US was not wrong.
"5 Million people can't be wrong", huh? I can safely say that 150,000,000 people were wrong in 1993 and up to today.
You can't say because of numbers that makes something good. It doesn't make sense. There are more nongamers then gamers. So the nongamers must be right.
No you dont get it. Total numbers compared to other games. Obviously WoW is doing something right. If they didnt then they would have alot less players. So they hit the right note. Hence having 5 million players proves they are doing something right.
Take alook at games like EQ2, SWG, AA, etc. Yah for some of the players in those games the game is good but it obviously isnt as good as WoW because WoW has up 50 times the total number of players.
Get it now sparky? You can say that game is good or this game is over there is good but it boils down to numbers. WoW has brought more then the market share of people into it. Far more. that in and of itself proves WoW is a good game. Yah it has problems but they are minimal at best. Show me a game without any problems. I dare you.
Oh no they use repetitive models. Again show me a game that doesnt use repetitive models.
Oh dear the quests are the same quests just different stories. Show me a game that doesnt do this. There are only 8 basic quest or mission types you can do in an MMO.
Kai
Diablo 2 sold 7 million copies. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diablo_2 .
Doesn't mean there's much depth to it, it just means that there are a lot of mid to high school kids who enjoy simplistic "hack n slash - collect the loot" titles, and knew that Blizzard would deliver just that. They'll tire of it when there's a lack of adult and tolerant players to flaunt their farmed gear to. There's nothing left of the game once you've collected all there is to collect.
and as we both know, Diablo 2's online service is still running this day. see, not everybody is looking for depth. for some people depth is fun, for (obviously most) its just damn annoying.
You'll also notice that World of Warcraft has the highest revenue from game time cards than any other MMO. Tells you a little something about the community, eh?
I see you have a reliable source to back up this statement?
World of Warcraft made all the money they're going to get from the retail boxes (no new players, as they've attracted all the market they can at launch), and the monthly revenue will slim out over time. So they release an expansion pack to unlock some content that's already in the retail package to generate more some cash flow and give them more stalling time for them to cobble together their next expansion of already-present content. World of Warcraft is a fad, it will pass in time.
Name games that don't have repeated quests and uses a variety of models and environments? Games without problems related to exploits and community?
Graphical Variety: Any game, you say? Well, go to every single player game developer's website and list the names of their games from A - Z. Start with Atari and end with Vivendi Universal... every game they've made has more graphical variety than World of Warcraft. I am bold enough to say this because it's true.
Bug Free: There is not a single piece of software to this date that exists without any bug. Games without noteable exploits? Not World of Warcraft, the shamans can still use sentry totems for various ways of cheating, among other exploits related to toher classes and races, but that has been the most noteable even since beta, and has not been fixed. There are many problems with every game, but Blizzard is the worst about fixing them... rogues had to wait about a month to get their stealth/vanish fully functional again. How would you like it if you had to wait a month or two for Steam to make a patch where you can shoot a gun in CS? Yeah, it's that bad.
Compared to other MMO's, WoW is very bug free.
Community: As I hinted before, the community in World of Warcraft is mostly from Diablo 2. Did that have much depth or freedom? No. So an single/multiplayer audience is populating WoW. Technically, Wow is just a bigger version of D2 with two sides instead of one.
You have nothing to back up your statement, and your just assuming. from my experience, most people are still against a monthly fee. and the amount of children that are allowed to pay for a monthly fee is even lower.
EVE Online, Star Wars Galaxies (pre-NGE), Saga of Ryzom, and EQ 1 and 2 each have a better community than WoW (even SWG after the NGE), but there's a smaller number. You know that over half of America's population has an IQ of 98 or lower? Here's a question: were a majority of America's people correct for voting for Clinton and Bush? They can't be wrong... look where they are now and tell me that over 51% of the US was not wrong.
so we are going to compare politics to games now? do you start to get a clue how rediculous it sounds?
you know whats even more ignorant?
Saying 6.5 million people ARE wrong, despite the fact WoW is the highest rated MMORPG according to reviews, and has more awards then all other MMO's together.
"5 Million people can't be wrong", huh? I can safely say that 150,000,000 people were wrong in 1993 and up to today.
on a side note, the topic should be changed:
"Why MMO's are a bad genre"
Cobble together an expansion eh?
Getting from level 60 to level 70 in Burning Crusade will take the same amount of time it took to get from 1-60 in the current game.
"release an expansion pack to unlock some content that's already in the retail package"
Would you like some more straws to clutch? I hear McDonalds give them away....
If you going to compare WoW to McDonalds at the very least put some effort into it.
Blizzard Entertainment was founded in 1991 headquartered in Irvine, California.
McDonalds was founded in 1948 and is based in Oak Brook, Illinois.
The Blizzard research and development group is comprised of more than 250 designers, producers, programmers, artists, and sound engineers.
As of July 14, 2006, McDonalds operates approximately 31,000 restaurants in 100 countries employing more than 1.5 million people.
Blizzard Entertainment has announced that they will be producing a Warcraft live-action movie.
Super Size Me was "An irreverent look at obesity in America and one of its sources - fast food corporations."
McDonalds has assets worth almost $30,000 million, profits last year were $2,602 million.
Vivendi enjoyed a 24 percent increase in revenues for the first half of the year compared to the same period last year, pulling in 296 million euros ($377.6 million).
Rob Pardo, the lead designer of World of Warcraft, is named one of the 100 most influential people in the world by Time Magazine.
No annoying animated GIF here!
Well, Gameloading, I'm sure you can back up your rebuttals. Any links? I gave one, at least.
You can ask gamestop.com yourself which time card product has the most sales. I'm not at liberty to give the email they sent due to an automatic electronic privacy contract.
Please give me proof that WoW is more bug free than other MMOs. From my experience of playing since launch, they have left many crippling bugs in the game which players take full advantage of. Let me know when you've played more than one MMO, then you can try to defend your precious game.
Where do you get "and the amount of children allowed to pay a monthly fee is even lower" from? You're assuming as well, or possibly your parents are a little more strict than others. Please give some evidence that you so much desire from me. Prove to me that you're a better person for explaining the state of World of Warcraft.
I can tell that you wouldn't understand a single shred of it anyway... "rediculous", it's spelled "ridiculous", by the way.
Tell me why 6 million people are not wrong, while during your elections since 1993, over 150 million have been wrong... 4 times, was it? You do realize that Clinton set up NAFTA? China's getting a hell of a deal out of it, matching their currency to the dollar; while your currency is worth less than the english pound as of today, and steadily dropping. Bush and his war doesn't help either.
You want proof? It's right in your face, you're too ignorant to look past your own veil of stupidity. I'll laugh when you try to defend World of Warcraft based on numbers again, you know very well it doesn't hold water. That said, would you like to further prove the state of intelligence in America with another response?
Now to my post. Why is WoW a GOOD game? 5 Million players cant be wrong! That is why.
Kai
how many asian mmo games are out that have several times as many players?
How many Western MMOs have 5 million or more? Heck how many have half that number or even 1/5th that number? Not counting WoW of course. Hmmm how many? Oh yeah NONE!!!!!!!!!!
Kai
i know, as long as we're limiting online games to just the western hemisphere, let's limit it to only online games that come out of kansas, usa~!! makes as much sense as your post.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
not that i believe that loving raiding = intelligence. i think it = i am really bored and can't think of a better way to spend my life. or maybe it = i'm stupid. who knows.
at any rate. if all you can do is say "it's sold most copies" "it's got most subs" "it's got most awards".
then 1 - do your research. if you're going to say "it's got the most subs", then make that a TRUE statement. "it's got the most subs of any game based in the United States". i for one, find it rather offensive that people are willfully ignoring the east. if you're going to be a fanboy worshipper, then at least make truthful statements about your god.
for the record, you don't have to be activelly sub'd to a game to be a fanboy. all you have to do is act, and post like a fanboy. that's what makes a fanboy.
next, other than intentional trolling, how exactly is stating "it's sold most copies" "it's got most subs" "it's got most awards" doing anything for you? i mean, i can understand some people get their jollies from trolling. but come on now, the same exact, tired, WRONG "logic" behind this thinking two months ago, is the same WRONG "logic" behind it now.
there are many movies, singers/bands, actors, et cetera that have sold many millions of copies and won many awards. that means they're popular and/or a fad. only their groupies (fanbois) would argue that they are the best. yet, on a board where people compare thoughts, have INTELLIGENT discussion about games and claim to be over 13 years old, we have completely illogical foundations of arguments repeated ad nauseum.
why?
well, here's a link to britney spears' lecture on semiconductor physics:
http://britneyspears.ac/lasers.htm
i think it will explain the thinking behind the "it's sold most copies" "it's got most subs" "it's got most awards" iareafanboyandirefusetomakelogicalargumentsbaseduponanythoughtsotherthandemandingeveryonebealemmingandfollowmygod "logic" far better than i ever could.
so the next time you read someone's post about "wow is the best because it has the most subs", you just think back to the britney semiconductor physics lectures and you'll understand where they're coming from.
for now, just sit back, have a tall cold one, and enjoy the show.
here's a fact.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
I'm going to have to agree with Plasuma. Its marketing. Which actually is used quite often in day to day life and such as that. People do use that stratagy quite often. So why wouldn't blizzard? Obviously the content was tweaked and thats fine. Why put all your cards on the table at once?
Siehst du mich
Erkennst du mich
Ganz tief in meinem Herz
ist noch ein Platz f?r dich
Ich suche dich
Ich sehne mich
nach dem was ich geliebt hab
doch ich find es nicht