Originally posted by Salvatoris I will never understand the appeal of this game. I don't think the reviewer is giving us anything other than his honest opinion.... but he certainly isn't giving an objective view of the game either. People seem to either love this game or hate it. There isn't a lot of middle ground. The reviewer clearly falls in to the "loves it" category. Where he admits the games shortcomings, it doesn't seem to affect his score in the relevant category. I think a second opinion review would be more helpful if the two showed different opinions of the game. It really shouldn't be hard to find someone who doesn't like this game. I wish I had seen more information from the people who don't like it before I wasted my money on it.
Well I like it but I'll try to give you the bad aspects of the game...
No clear cut path to a end Possible to lose your equipment. Learn Curve is incredibly steep and little game source help Music does get repetative ( I turn it off, though on a plus side the client isn't effected by winamp running in the backgroud) Graphics are starting to show there age(getting upgraded early next year so hard to quote) up to 2-4 second lag in some of the heavier used systems/Mass PVP(though the combat system tends to still make it playable.) Skill system is real-time based... If you are the person who doesn't sleep and wants to be rewarded for it by your character skilling faster than anyone not happening. (you will gain money faster than anyone else) Missions are horrible repatative... ( about 100 missions that you get a random one to accomplish from mission agents)
I will say I wish this review would be done after the Kali set of additions as there is a entirely new client with graphics update and Several fixes to the some of the game systems. Hopefully that hits on some of the bad stuff. EVE does tend to be a Love or Hate game, Most of it does come from Bad advice and the lack of direction provided by the game. Hopefully taht gives you your couner point salvatoris
***new ships*** Destroyers, Battlecruisers, Faction ships and Mining barges!
starbases With the introduction of player owned Starbases, EVE will become a game of territorial conquest.
new multi-level scenarios These are massive multi-levelled space game arenas called Complexes commonly known as dungeons.
mining improvements Improvements to mining and new Ice field environments to harvest.
***alliance systems*** Alliances are a major part of EVE and with this system, all players of an alliance will be able to fly under the same flag
user interface improvement There will be a plethora of UI improvements to accommodate for new features and to lessen the learning curve for new players.
new agent functionality Level 4 agents will accept pilots if they have sufficient standing
***new aggression system*** Better handling of Aggression and the way it treats player ownership, which is a prerequisite for player owned structures is in EXODUS. Better visual display of an aggressing pilot and the repercussions of breaking the law are now more logical and extensive. As a result, a CONCORD Memorandum has been issued to clarify Empire laws.
new npc types
COLD WAR Expansion
***outposts*** Outpost: a compact, cheaper, effective alternative to stations.
***new world order*** old superhighways will shut down a new world order is forming. More than 30 new passageways into the deep space regions
***system sovereignty*** Sovereignty now allow Alliances to deploy player owned outposts and gives a 25% decrease to Starbase fuel consumption. Starbases in general are getting more efficient in reactions and require less fuel.
cosmos constellations Expansion of NPC content leadership overhaul More now than ever before, leadership will decide what the balance of power is, and who has the uncontested advantage in combat. As part of a general overhaul to fleet warfare, new skills and modules will improve your ability to defend and attack in groups.
new complexes Where there is ISK to be had, you can count on a number of people there to get their "fair" share. Of course, these gentle pilots utilize "fair" force to achieve what they consider "fair". Who came up with that word anyways? ***dreadnoughts & freighters*** Holy shit....big ass captial ships
***COMBAT IMPROVEMENTS*** - Missile Warfare - Logistics Cruisers: - Armor Plating, Shield Extenders, and Shield Boosters: Increases across the board to offer more strategies for combat setups - Mobile Warp Disruptors - Faction Ammunition - Cruisers: Faster, more agile, and more versatile than ever before - Drones: Tech Level 2 drones available - Player vs. Player logoff timer: When engaged with another player in combat, your ship will now stay in space considerably. Engaging an NPC is unchanged and warps your ship away as usual.
research breakthroughs & skills esearch Agents now give out Tech Level 2 Missile Launchers, Passive Shield and Armor Hardeners, Combat and Mining Drone. The corresponding skills to them use them all are also available on the market in addition to skills for the new ships and additional missile skills to allow further specialization.
RED MOON RISING Expansion
titans The largest spacefaring vessels ever created
***carriers & motherships*** Massive ships providing fighter coverage and support for fleets
***tech 2 ships*** Interdictors are elite destroyers with the ability to launch small anti-warp bubbles. Reconnaissance ships will come in two variants: Combat Recon and Force Recon. Command ships are elite battlecruisers that are also feature two variants.
Between the Tech II Mining Barges and race-specific variants, a total of 39 new ships are introduced in Red Moon Rising. ***bloodlines*** All races now have playable asian bloodlines
project rebirth woot! Jump clones!
***next-gen manufacturing & research facilities*** Mass manufacturing and remote management
***combat revisited*** Eight new skills are added to enhance damage-withstanding capabilities, and most ships received a 25% increase to overall hitpoints. Damage Controls give resistance bonuses to shields, armor and hull. Reinforced Bulkheads will further increase the defensive properties of the Damage Control module.
Some ships just don't have what it takes, are too limited, or too weak in their designed role. The Mk2 project will make a number of Tech 1 ships fit better into their existing roles and creates a role for ships that didn't have one.
The stacking penalty of modules has changed, decreasing the penalty for using two (2) or three (3) modules of the same type, but increasing the penalty for using four (4) or more modules of same type.
drones revisited The total number of drones that each pilot can control will be reduced; therefore the drone interfacing skill and ship bonuses will change accordingly to compensate. Overall drone damage output potential and hitpoints are unaffected.
New drones include four types of Electronic Warfare drones, a Stasis Webifying drone, a Cap Draining drone, a Repair Drone, and last but not least, an unmovable high-damage, long-range drone called the Sentry drone.
eye for an eye f you lose your ship within Empire space because of unsanctioned combat, you earn the right to revenge your loss for a limited time, and can kill the assailant on sight
jettison canister flagging If a pilot takes anything from your jettisoned canister, then your gang and/or your corporations will flag that pilot as a thief, and you are permitted to open fire on the pilot responsible for stealing your loot. CONCORD will neither enforce nor interfere with the matter, so it is up to the owner of the stolen property to exercise his or her right. Be warned that this could be used as a trap to lure smaller fleets into sanctioned engagements.
tractor beam The tractor beam is a short-range module that can tow loot and jettisoned containers to your ship's hold. They can only be used on canisters belonging to you, your gang, or your corporation.
Originally posted by Beatnik59 Originally posted by (MG)Toast
Originally posted by Beatnik59
EVE is essentially the same game as it was in 2004.
Patently untrue, unless you're talking in the most very basic sense of the phrase, in which case it doesn't support your assertion. Hell, it's not even the same game in review-score terms as it was when I started in early 2005.
The interface is the same, the gameplay is the same, and the backstory is the same. It has had things added to it, but it wasn't a wholesale redefinition of the entire gameplay like SWG was.
Basically, its still the same EVE that anybody who played EVE in 2003, 2004, 2005, and 2006 would understand and be able to play. Its not like SWG which redefined the entire way you play the game, and turning your rulebook into a coaster.
In the post above this, I compiled a list of all the new features that were added/modified by the three content expansion patches. Those features in red or labled in *** are those features that had a massive impact on the gameplay.
Compared to the launch release, today's EVE is a completely different beast. There's no way you can look at that list and say the interface, the gameplay, and the backstory is relatively the same as it was when EVE was launched.
BTW, the list was a compilation of E-ON's expansion features list. As I recall, the author did mention in a paragraph or 2 the difference between today's EVE and the launch version.
In the post above this, I compiled a list of all the new features that were added/modified by the three content expansion patches. Those features in red or labled in *** are those features that had a massive impact on the gameplay.
Compared to the launch release, today's EVE is a completely different beast. There's no way you can look at that list and say the interface, the gameplay, and the backstory is relatively the same as it was when EVE was launched.
BTW, the list was a compilation of E-ON's expansion features list. As I recall, the author did mention in a paragraph or 2 the difference between today's EVE and the launch version.
All of it is balancing, additions to content, and refining elements in the game. It happens in all games, like City of Heroes, or Everquest II. Yet not all of them get a second review, nor should they, because the fundamental concepts underpinning the game are the same, just as it is in EVE.
I don't see City of Heroes get a second review because they added in the new ATs, or changed around the costumes in Issue 7, or a second review of Lineage II because of Chronicle V (My mistake. Lineage II was re-reviewed, and I oppose that re-review on the same grounds). What would be the point though since CoH, and Lineage II, like EVE, were the same basic game with enhancements any subscription based game, provides?
What happened in Star Wars Galaxies was an entire reinvention of the fundamental concepts like, what it means to be a character, and how you interact with NPCs, and how you go about the game. A second review in that case was appropriate, because it was a whole new game.
This is not the case here though, and EVE is getting special treatment, and one might say, biased treatment for doing the same periodic updates every other game on this site does.
__________________________ "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it." --Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints." --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls." --Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
Originally posted by Beatnik59 Originally posted by (MG)Toast
Originally posted by Beatnik59 EVE is essentially the same game as it was in 2004.
Patently untrue, unless you're talking in the most very basic sense of the phrase, in which case it doesn't support your assertion. Hell, it's not even the same game in review-score terms as it was when I started in early 2005.
The interface is the same, the gameplay is the same, and the backstory is the same. It has had things added to it, but it wasn't a wholesale redefinition of the entire gameplay like SWG was.
Basically, its still the same EVE that anybody who played EVE in 2003, 2004, 2005, and 2006 would understand and be able to play. Its not like SWG which redefined the entire way you play the game, and turning your rulebook into a coaster.
And then you shot your own argument down. The interface is not the same. The gameplay has changed a lot. The backstory has evolved. Are you saying you want a wholesale change of gameplay like SWG? For a rabid eve hateboi, you could atleast get your facts right. BTW anyone who played in 2003 or 2004 would be completely lost if they got into eve now. Nothings the same.
1. The interface is completely different.
2. The gameplay is completelt different especially the realationships between the various sizes and classes of ships. Combat has been changed a lot and its completely different from 2003.
3. The backstory has evolved. What exactly do you want the eve devs to do? Would you like them to change the settings to Norrath one fine day and claim they have a totally new backstory? Thats prolly the dumbest statement in your post. The rest is just all based on ignorance.
Ps. I've played eve since 2003. I know better than you. So shutup before you shove more of your foot up your mouth.
Pps. I also played AC2, wOW, DDO, EQ2, Coh and I can see the good and bad points. You dont see me slating them for things I dont like about them.
Seems odd when an advertising campaign is followed by a re-review of a game noone cares about, or at least a game long past it's.....I would say prime but it never reached that high. Also how a crappy game got such high scores leaves me doubting in the validity of the review. The player ratings on mmorpg.com are suspect at best since it's easy to abuse the system. It is just another sign that there is no place where gaming journalism isn't corrupt and in the pocket of the highest bidder.
It's better be hated for who you are, than loved for who you aren't.
And then you shot your own argument down. The interface is not the same. The gameplay has changed a lot. The backstory has evolved. Are you saying you want a wholesale change of gameplay like SWG? For a rabid eve hateboi, you could atleast get your facts right. BTW anyone who played in 2003 or 2004 would be completely lost if they got into eve now. Nothings the same.
The interface for Matrix Online was improved to handle Customer Service better, yet it doesn't get a second review. I also don't know of any game that hasn't progressed in terms of the storyline, but they don't get re-reviewed every time something progresses or doesn't (and by the way, the storyline in EVE is progressing very slowly in things like the Gallente elections and the Amarr succession).
Do I want wholesale change like SWG on EVE? I wouldn't wish that on anyone. I still play EVE, and I like EVE. Its because I like EVE that I wish MMORPG.com would give it an honest rating in a fair way, so they don't look like they are polishing an Icelandic turd to all of those that are getting sick of the EVE hype at a time when EVE is behind schedule with Kali, and has issues with CS.
I just want some fairness, equity, and honesty in the process, and a little bit of thought into exactly why the categories have been improved or demoted based upon the precedent of the previous reviewer. If that makes me a "rabid EVE hateboi," so be it, but I want the process to be fair, and based on a compelling reason that is applicable to all.
If EVE is a good game that can stand toe to toe with the rest here, then it shouldn't require special treatment just to satisfy the EVE players.
__________________________ "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it." --Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints." --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls." --Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
Originally posted by Beatnik59 Originally posted by Datcyde I came back like 3 months ago and sooooooo much has changed and the game is like 7X better im so glad ccp kept my charcter so i save like 2 months.
That's great, but what specifically has changed that has made your particular experience better today than it was when you started?
If you could explain fully, and in detail in your experience before, and your experience now, as made possible by the game changes, it will better help us grasp exactly why its better to get into EVE now than at any other point.
Before when i played i messed around a lil tried mining and some ratting. We had mining ops for the corp but just so we can buy ships for our leaders ect nothing special. All there was to do then is mine the few types of ores or go PvP in 0.0 and make alliances there was nothing in empire.Now you can build your own stations in empire or 0.0 and build your corporation however you see fit
Ok before when i played there were only haulers- frigates - cruisers - and battleships not counting shuttles Now you have somany more ships you can fly and each has its own purpose i realy dont feel like putting evary class and ship on here if your intrested go look it all up at www.eve-online.com. Having many more ships to me means alot more fun PvP styles and if you wanna go industrial you can work for a mining barge which is dedicated for mining which eve didnt have before also they have a new class for haulers i forgot what its called but they are made for traders so they can haul a huge capacity of stuf.
Jump clones - Now there are jump clones which means u can jump to the opposite side of space without having to go like 40 system jumps or more plus another benefit to this is if you have Expensive implants on your skill clone and if u wanna pvp for a time you can just change to your jump clone and not have to worry about the huge loss- for those who dont know what Implants do they give you attribute boosts which means you can learn your skills faster , like if a skill takes 2 days with a implant it could take 1 day and 5 hours.
Missions - before they didnt have this variety of missions ,they were boring and you didnt have the LOYALITY point gain which is huge they have made this better by adding more variations but it still need more work imo. There are skill books now which boost loyality point gain with an agent. At 60 k lp i got a offer for 4 +3 attribute implants which were worth 25-30 mil each and at 120k lp i got 8 besides the lp gain u get bounty from rats, Story line missions < huge,missions rewards and bonuses which can be altered based on skill , and nice drops if u check your cans. So befor when i played missions wasnt worth it and u realy had 2 choices for making ISK - mine - hunt rats in dangerous 0.0 now u can safely make money as a fighter.
Complexes-Before you didnt have complexes but now u do ......bling...... they have diffrent difficulties for complexes and you can take your crew and try them out hoping for big faction drops from tough rats which will make you rich.
Ore- Before you had only plaq - veld - omber ect but now you have like 3 diffrent variations of each ore which makes it more intresting while mining if you like to mine plus i saw a ore called dark orche which i didnt see when i played over 2 years ago i bet there are even more types of ores.
Wardeck - This means you can declare war on a corporation if u want. You can even make your own corp and put an alt in it and wardeck anyone you want before you couldnt wardeck but now u can which means no one is safe LoL i think thats the coolest and you dont have to be in 0.0 if u wanna PvP.
There are alot more skills then before and more stuf i can post if i go deeper but truely im still a noob but like a stage 5 noob with it goes up to 10 lol I bet a person that has stayed for years can explain all the changes better but i hope this helps.
Originally posted by Nicoli As a suggestion to all in future life... Read behind the numbers. Read what the reviewer said in the article about his justifications for why he put what he did. And for the comment about the support petition anything truly serious is handled quickly. That includes the I can't finish a mission, I'm stuck, holy exploit Batman!! types. The "I want a new ship because my screen lagged in a fleet battle as 100 Battleships and 15 Dreads opened fire on me" tend to cause the serious loss petitions to take longer and they are filed by some players left and right. CCP does look into the loss alot, and often when I have had to use the system I have gotten a reason behind the problem with it.
Now as for the New player being able to fight in PVP I just happened to be Cussing left and right at 2 new guys who blew me out of my ship (note my character is 1.5 years old). Stupid noobs using tactics... and that is it. Most players can start to provide a serious roll in combat by the end of the first week if not sooner.
Ok you said 15 dreads........... im not even sure if any alliance actuly EVER flew with 15 dreads in a system at once but if they did it would be happening often. Im not sure if your complainign or what but ive never seen a exploit yet but i know that people that try to flood the system with shuttles or bantams can get banned from the game.
I have been playing the game for over 2 years now with multiple accounts. This game is well worth the time to learn and have fun with. If you are looking for a challenge that is not the normal grind then Eve Online is for you.
Originally posted by Darkentwo And then you shot your own argument down. The interface is not the same. The gameplay has changed a lot. The backstory has evolved. Are you saying you want a wholesale change of gameplay like SWG? For a rabid eve hateboi, you could atleast get your facts right. BTW anyone who played in 2003 or 2004 would be completely lost if they got into eve now. Nothings the same.
The interface for Matrix Online was improved to handle Customer Service better, yet it doesn't get a second review. I also don't know of any game that hasn't progressed in terms of the storyline, but they don't get re-reviewed every time something progresses or doesn't (and by the way, the storyline in EVE is progressing very slowly in things like the Gallente elections and the Amarr succession).
Do I want wholesale change like SWG on EVE? I wouldn't wish that on anyone. I still play EVE, and I like EVE. Its because I like EVE that I wish MMORPG.com would give it an honest rating in a fair way, so they don't look like they are polishing an Icelandic turd to all of those that are getting sick of the EVE hype at a time when EVE is behind schedule with Kali, and has issues with CS.
I just want some fairness, equity, and honesty in the process, and a little bit of thought into exactly why the categories have been improved or demoted based upon the precedent of the previous reviewer. If that makes me a "rabid EVE hateboi," so be it, but I want the process to be fair, and based on a compelling reason that is applicable to all.
If EVE is a good game that can stand toe to toe with the rest here, then it shouldn't require special treatment just to satisfy the EVE players.
I don't know about MxO, but then again I'm noyt the one that claimed that Eve's interface hasn't changed. The fact that MxO didnt get a second review, doesnt disprove the fact that you lied about eve's interface being the same as 2003.
The storyline progress is slow is it? Better than a lot of games where the storyline doesnt progress at all.
Yes the roleplaying value has gone up. Mainly because there are more subscribers and more roleplayers. That would ofcourse improve the rolepalying aspect of the game.
The game does not lag as much as you claim. It only lags a bit in really high density systems. Its def better than WoW or EQ2.
You claim you're not an eve hateboi and you like the game....yet you call it an icelandic turd in the very same sentence. Are you suffering from dual personalities or sumin.
Horizons got rereviewed a long time ago. Didnt see you scream and shout about it.
The MMORPG guys say they are going to rereview EQ2 as well. I hope you'll be there to show us why it doesnt need to be rereviewed. Just because you suck at eve doesnt make teh game bad. It just means you suck at eve.
I understand your points and I welcome the debate. However, I think we simply have different views on how things should be done. In my opinion, MMORPGs - unlike single player games - are always growing and changing. That is why I want to do new reviews. The latest one obviously becomes our official score. The old one still exists simply for housekeeping.
The key is, whatever your policy may be, to be consistent. For me, it would be a greater injustice to pick and choose which games you re-review. Then, we have companies asking us for re-reviews at opportune times. Having a blanket one year policy (in theory at least, availability of writers changes that) makes sure every game knows it gets looked at each year. So long as we do it for everyone, it works. EVE just happened to be one of the first ones we went back to. Next week, you'll see the WoW re-review, for example.
Someone else mentioned having the original writer re-review. I agree, in a perfect world that is what we will do, but it is the nature of these things that that is not always possible. For example, Richard Duffek did a good number of our early reviews. We cannot very well have a guy who is now a community rep for Mythic Entertainment doing our reviews, can we? That said, whenever possible, we will do that.
Originally posted by Gorukha Seems odd when an advertising campaign is followed by a re-review of a game noone cares about, or at least a game long past it's.....I would say prime but it never reached that high. Also how a crappy game got such high scores leaves me doubting in the validity of the review. The player ratings on mmorpg.com are suspect at best since it's easy to abuse the system. It is just another sign that there is no place where gaming journalism isn't corrupt and in the pocket of the highest bidder.
Again, the conspiracy theories. I am sure if you ask around, people will tell you there have been EVE ads on this site more or less constantly for years. And honestly, the review changed the overall score of the game by .1. There is no nefarious agenda here, I simply had an interested writer and thought it was time to look at the game again. If we didn't cover games that bought ads on the site, we would only have articles about WoW and indy games.
Dana Massey Formerly of MMORPG.com Currently Lead Designer for Bit Trap Studios
I think it's a fair review overall but it doesn't touch on some negative aspects of the design.
First off I played EVE Online when it was first released and it had major problems with some of it's design and bugged features that took too long to fix from my perspective, most of which have been fixed since but not soon enough to keep me playing, and some still impact the game negatively today.
The main problem with the game currently is the real world time based skill learning system. It doesn't reward those who spend more time in the virtual world, rewards those who pay more in terms of subscription fees, and thus will always maintain an advantage for veterans. This is undeniable even if it's a small percentage. This makes the game unfriendly to newcomers who are willing to work harder at developing their skills than a veteran player and establishes an aura of unfairness because it is not based on merit.
This also dampens immersion, because a virtual world should not have obvious ties to the real world. Skill development is supposed to be relative to what transpires in the virtual world only, otherwise the premsie of such a virtual world is destroyed.
EVE Online is a world based on power structure, and manufacturing is one of the core aspects of the game for creating wealth and along with it, power. Many newer players may not know of the original nerf that moved high quality rare ores from secure space to unsecure space which allowed those early veterans prior to the nerf to gain a huge advantage in jump starting their manufacturing and establishing a power base. This is an imbalance which exists today because it is what made many of the powerful corporations what they are. This was a huge mistake because of improper testing and demanded a rollback which didn't transpire.
Gamers expect to have to play catch up when joining a pre existing virtual world, wether it be developing your character's skills or pursuing crafting/manufacturing for trade, but the expectation is that with added effort, one can do so thru merit, which is not the case in EVE Online.
Another negative aspect is solo play vs group/corporation play. You can solo in EVE Online, but it is certainly geared for group play so it should be noted in any review that this is not a game that will appeal to most soloers, who do have a large presence in the MMOG genre. I don't believe all MMOGs should try to be everything for everybody, which is why EVE Online is and will be a niche game, but that is fine.
"We feel gold selling and websites that promote it damage games like Vanguard and will do everything possible to combat it." Brad McQuaid Chairman & CEO, Sigil Games Online, Inc. Executive Producer, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes www.vanguardsoh
EQ II: Kingdom of the Sky EQ II: Desert of Flames EQ II: Splitpaw Saga
DAoC: New Frontiers DAoC: Trials of Atlantis DAoC: Darkness Rising
SWG: NGE
The re-reviews for EVE, Ryzome, and Lineage 2 occured within the last 2 months.
The point I wanted to make is that with the typical business model of releasing optional expansion packs for profit, it is very easy for journalists to review or re-review a MMO along the lines defined by the expansion packs. But what about those MMO's that have expanded their gameplay via frequent patches or by non-optional expansion patches? There's no clearly defined line that says this MMO has evolved to a point such that our orginal review of the product is no longer accurate. This is a delimmea faced by MMO companies and game journalists.
If I recall correctly, IGN has a policy of not re-reviewing MMOs unless a commercial expansion pack is being released. Their arguement is that IGN's service is to educate and and provide insight to potential game purchasers...basicly giving the gamers a tool to help them decide where to spend their money. Therefore a free, mandatory expansion download is not sufficient for IGN to re-review the game, even if the expansion increases the game by several orders of magnitude.
Originally posted by Jorev I think it's a fair review overall but it doesn't touch on some negative aspects of the design. First off I played EVE Online when it was first released and it had major problems with some of it's design and bugged features that took too long to fix from my perspective, most of which have been fixed since but not soon enough to keep me playing, and some still impact the game negatively today. The main problem with the game currently is the real world time based skill learning system. It doesn't reward those who spend more time in the virtual world, rewards those who pay more in terms of subscription fees, and thus will always maintain an advantage for veterans. This is undeniable even if it's a small percentage. This makes the game unfriendly to newcomers who are willing to work harder at developing their skills than a veteran player and establishes an aura of unfairness because it is not based on merit. This also dampens immersion, because a virtual world should not have obvious ties to the real world. Skill development is supposed to be relative to what transpires in the virtual world only, otherwise the premsie of such a virtual world is destroyed. EVE Online is a world based on power structure, and manufacturing is one of the core aspects of the game for creating wealth and along with it, power. Many newer players may not know of the original nerf that moved high quality rare ores from secure space to unsecure space which allowed those early veterans prior to the nerf to gain a huge advantage in jump starting their manufacturing and establishing a power base. This is an imbalance which exists today because it is what made many of the powerful corporations what they are. This was a huge mistake because of improper testing and demanded a rollback which didn't transpire. Gamers expect to have to play catch up when joining a pre existing virtual world, wether it be developing your character's skills or pursuing crafting/manufacturing for trade, but the expectation is that with added effort, one can do so thru merit, which is not the case in EVE Online. Another negative aspect is solo play vs group/corporation play. You can solo in EVE Online, but it is certainly geared for group play so it should be noted in any review that this is not a game that will appeal to most soloers, who do have a large presence in the MMOG genre. I don't believe all MMOGs should try to be everything for everybody, which is why EVE Online is and will be a niche game, but that is fine.
dont be so quick to call problems. for me the skill training is perfect, the best so far i have seen. IMHO it is just fair to reward veteran players not because they have paid more, but because they have been on the game more time, and real time training is the most elegant way to do that. and at the same time it takes away the grind.
and of course, you should know that the only reason you are able to catch up veterans on any other MMORPG is because they are capped at a pointless, stupid and artificial level limit. if it werent for that crappy feature veterans would be ahead on every game.
meanwhile, EVE accepts this, and decided to not have a level limit. instead there is a limit to every skill, so that you can only train to level 5. that, and the 300 different skills make it so that veterans can not be the best at everything and any new player can be the best at any single thing within 5 or 6 months, and be just as good as a 3 year old player.
i starte 1 year ago, and i am already wining a lot of money producing ships and modules, competing with 3 year vets on the same ground. at the same time i am a very good miner, and a decent mision runner and pvper. in fact, i am as good with the dominix as anybody can be. so i dont care if a veteran has 15 million skill points more than i do. when fighting on a domi nobody can have more skills than me.
Very good review. I really wish I liked this game, but I found it very boring. I hope another company makes a ground version or even a space/ground version soon.
The web-site is devoted to process of creation multiuser online game (MMORPG) on motives of product of Andrey Livadnyy, entering in a series to " History of the Galaxy " http://www.livadnyy.ru/angl.htm
This project commercial, is supposed that "client" of game will be free-of-charge, freely loaded of the Internet, and here " the life inside " - on a paid basis (a monthly subscription) about "trial" the period in some days - that could be understood " as it there inside ".
Game is constructed by a principle of "free world", i.e. the Player can simply hang in space though month and to do is nothing its right. It is planned to allow " to do all ", but in the basic systems presence of "Military-space Forces of Confederation of the Sun" (MFCS) will be felt and Patrol of Secutiry council of the Worlds - will disassemble on atoms especially cocky quickly and effectively. We think of an opportunity for players "to sign" the contract on service in MFCS for concrete game time, with reception of additional experience at participation in operations MFCS and patroling.
As is planned to resolve joint operations "space + a surface of planets", - i.e. at landing of troops on an another's planet players can support from an orbit fire the landing - the rockets which have been let out from an orbit, can amaze the purposes on a surface. It will be possible to land on a planet, to leave the ship and there "to live", or to construct the base and Cosmoport, to erect in ore places own factories on extraction and processing, to start processes terraforming (the majority of the worlds initially are not suitable for a life - the oxygen worlds - a greater rarity).
One of serious questions whom we now discuss, is an application of modules " ALON " (A.I.). We plan to enable the Player to buy and apply modules, as replacement of "pilot" by technics which it wishes to operate. Not the secret, that in others MMORPG the Player is compelled to pay for one more account, and on it to do to itself "assistant" (transportations, manufacture, protection) - i.e. it turns out that 6 players who have gathered in one place - actually are 2 alive persons :)
We initially plan presence of set of "unopened" planets (hundred thousand), which players will open and investigate. The general number of stars in a game Galaxy - nearby 1'000'000'000... And in general, - the card of hypersphere in it of 100% a kind will be not not seen by anybody Has begun is only the "marked" lines of Hypersphere (HS), leaders to the basic worlds of the Manned Galaxy, and many not studied branchings. As game begins with a word "Expansion..." We consider necessary that to enable players to search to ourselves for interesting places we Assume that in a consequence " the market of safe HS-routes " will be rather developed, i.e. more skilled players can create the routes and sell them. Well and if someone will put station HyperTransmitters in the star system found by it - that the way to it becomes marked and accessible to all other players - but (to attention of pirates!) On an output in new system " undesirable visitors " can get in a sight of batteries of planetary defense of the one who "has lead" this route to the planet - all as to lives
On the technical moments of realization the information while has the status "confidentially" as we shall approach to release - we shall announce that will be possible - meanwhile the general phrases: a server on UNIX to a platform, experts on multiline network processing as the big number (tens thousand) simultaneously playing is supposed are involved. The primary goal of "network interaction" it "local features of Russia and Ukraine" - i.e. to enable to play and to users from the modem in 28kbit speeds (dialup), at least in variants with a small amount of the ships in "visible" the Player of a part. For this purpose there are ideas - but the final result will show beta-testing.
The command for today consists of three programmers (the basic work), two artists (frilancer), three modellers (frilancer). Special thanks to Andrey Livadnyy for its participation by "word" - we try to correspond as much as possible "on spirit and a kind" to those objects which descriptions are given in products, but also there will be also new ideas, what - while a secret
Development of Game is conducted by Kiev company "S_V_R" (http://www.svr.ua) The company earlier was not engaged in games, and is known for the advanced development in the field of complex IT-systems. Our company works in the market of telecommunications since 1995. Since February, 1998 we are the official partner of company Lucent Technologies (nowadays AVAYA Communication), the USA...
Yes, I did read the first review and I thought it was very well thought out. I thought it spent a lot of time describing the gameplay and backstory. Being as this was a re-review I decided to use my space to focus on the gameplay elements that stood out to me personally rather then simply repeating the previous review.
Looking back I wish I would have gone into detail about all the elements that changed since the first review, but nonetheless it give an accurate picture of my take on the game. My opinion doesn't count for more just because it's published and it is silly to think I chose to do it for any other reason then it was available and needed another look. Obviously not everyone will agree with me, even the people who enjoy it for different reasons or have had different experiences in the game. That's the great thing about the forums: You are free to disagree.
Until next time
Notice: The views expressed in this post are solely those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the reviews of MMORPG.com or its management.
Originally posted by ssstupido dont be so quick to call problems. for me the skill training is perfect, the best so far i have seen. IMHO it is just fair to reward veteran players not because they have paid more, but because they have been on the game more time, and real time training is the most elegant way to do that. and at the same time it takes away the grind.
and of course, you should know that the only reason you are able to catch up veterans on any other MMORPG is because they are capped at a pointless, stupid and artificial level limit. if it werent for that crappy feature veterans would be ahead on every game.
meanwhile, EVE accepts this, and decided to not have a level limit. instead there is a limit to every skill, so that you can only train to level 5. that, and the 300 different skills make it so that veterans can not be the best at everything and any new player can be the best at any single thing within 5 or 6 months, and be just as good as a 3 year old player.
i starte 1 year ago, and i am already wining a lot of money producing ships and modules, competing with 3 year vets on the same ground. at the same time i am a very good miner, and a decent mision runner and pvper. in fact, i am as good with the dominix as anybody can be. so i dont care if a veteran has 15 million skill points more than i do. when fighting on a domi nobody can have more skills than me.
I am not surprised you like the real world time based skill system and that you happen to be from Europe.
The real world time based skill system is a socialist one, as it rewards and protects veterans and doesn't emphasize merit which would be more capitalistic.
I think the design stems from CCP's Icelandic/Scandinavian orientation. Most Scandinavian and some European countries are socialists, especially in regards to the workplace, protecting jobs regardless of productivity and offering rewards mainly based on seniority. To some extent you see that here in America in the "old boys network" but certainly to a lesser extent than our European and Scandinavian counterparts.
Veterans would not be ahead of all players all the time in an open ended leveling-skill raising system. Obviously it would be based on an individuals participation in the virtual world. Newcomers who are more active will catch up and even surpass some veterans and that is fair.
"We feel gold selling and websites that promote it damage games like Vanguard and will do everything possible to combat it." Brad McQuaid Chairman & CEO, Sigil Games Online, Inc. Executive Producer, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes www.vanguardsoh
Originally posted by FragManDan One of the most mature communitys Iv ever had the pleasure to be apart of.
I wholly agree with you on this one. I feel this is a function of the steep learning curve, in that it filters out some of the younger, more impatient crowd. I don't think CCP has data available, but I'd bet the average age of the EVE player is older than most other MMORPGs. It's style seems to be more compatable with someone who is more of a part-time gamer, maybe logging on for an hour or two, once every couple days. I play in this way, and am able to run a nice small scale industrial operation, by myself.
Originally posted by Archebald most of the review is great, but i have to agree, when you begin, it is hard to pvp effectively agains older player because skills are real time based.
When you first begin, yes. But it's a misconception that you can never match someone who's played longer than you. This isn't a level-based game. Just because someone has 10 million more skillpoints than you, it doesn't mean they're invincible to your attacks. A person's abilities is dictated by what ship and modules they're currently using. Skills only add small percentages and allow you to use more modules but they are not uber-powerful style buffs.
Id also like to add that everything is achievable, so lets take WoW as an example there is no way me being a casual player after 6-12 months of play and gaining level 60 able to compete against a player thats fully Tier 3 EPIC gear and belongs to a Tier 2-3 guild! i WILL NEVER see that gear. Now as for Eve-Online its a matter of time, remember there are ONLY 5 levels per catagory thus no matter how long the player has been in Eve-Online about all they will TRUELY have over you (aside from ingame skill/knowledge of PvP) is variety either way he will ONLY have Frigate 5 and all related skills for Frigate as 5 which is attainable by ANYONE over time.
I hope i made my point, im not very good expressing my self on forums.
I am a true fan of s&f. spaces operas and all. First time I played EVE I was so excited I forgot to eat for a day, playing it. But, 6 months later, all that magic dissapeared. Why?
1. The most important thing to me: No Big Spaceships Battles. Not even "medium". I dont know if its the client or the server side, but if there are more then 15-20 ships in the same area in fight things go slow. And, its so fast paced that you are destroyed in a blink of eyes. Even more, you can jump into a trap and with a big armoured battleship you can survive 3-5 seconds before explode, because some pirates blocked the jump gate. So, big, intense, lasting space pvp battles are INEXISTENT. So, I dont agree with the Lag=10 score. Obviously, you didnt try to have a decent space battle. For me, lag=6 (server or client, I dont care).
2. PvE is a joke. The missions are so dumb you actually do the same mission over and over in order to gain reputation with the agent and get some reward.
3. Lack of multiplayer ships. That I think is VERY IMPORTANT to feel a real space opera environment. Ships with 3,6, or even more players, each one taking a role in it, like gunners, engineers, tactics... man, this should be FUN!. And that also would make a great cooperative, real party oriented game.
4. You cant respecc. Thats the major flaw of the "open" skill, time based. The days you spent learning to drive big cargo vessels for example cant be refunded. So, if you wanted to be a trader, but later you want to fly that superb interceptor thingy, you have to train the skills and wait endless days, even months. You cant forget your learning like other mmorpgs and respecc your skills. That is demoralizing, even more when you see "26 days" to learn the 5th level skill needed to drive that kind of ships.
5. You are not "free" to do whatever you want. 0.0 space, where you have to go if you want real isk, is owned by players corps. So, you HAVE TO join a corp and depend on players decisions. That isn't so bad as you have more fun if you get involved in corp wars, but you cant avoid it
And there are some more I dont mention. I know there is some fun in EVE, like a very good player driven economy, stunning graphics, wise module system, great environment... but EVE is far from being an intense, deep space experience. Simply, it lacks the basics of the great s&f moments.
Ship replavment always take time, as so many people tend todo it, often when its clearly there own fault they exploded. so have some patiants, if they rushed it many people would be having ships and isk replaced that didnt deserve it.
Also i feel you might have wanted to metion Kali and the new client and graphic updates, eve will soon be a much more shiny place to play
Other than that all good, just wish they would balance t2 bpo's these just too few resulting in a small number of tor ich for there won good players.
Comments
No clear cut path to a end
Possible to lose your equipment.
Learn Curve is incredibly steep and little game source help
Music does get repetative ( I turn it off, though on a plus side the client isn't effected by winamp running in the backgroud)
Graphics are starting to show there age(getting upgraded early next year so hard to quote)
up to 2-4 second lag in some of the heavier used systems/Mass PVP(though the combat system tends to still make it playable.)
Skill system is real-time based... If you are the person who doesn't sleep and wants to be rewarded for it by your character skilling faster than anyone not happening. (you will gain money faster than anyone else)
Missions are horrible repatative... ( about 100 missions that you get a random one to accomplish from mission agents)
I will say I wish this review would be done after the Kali set of additions as there is a entirely new client with graphics update and Several fixes to the some of the game systems. Hopefully that hits on some of the bad stuff. EVE does tend to be a Love or Hate game, Most of it does come from Bad advice and the lack of direction provided by the game. Hopefully taht gives you your couner point salvatoris
Destroyers, Battlecruisers, Faction ships and Mining barges!
starbases
With the introduction of player owned Starbases, EVE will become a game of territorial conquest.
new multi-level scenarios
These are massive multi-levelled space game arenas called Complexes commonly known as dungeons.
mining improvements
Improvements to mining and new Ice field environments to harvest.
***alliance systems***
Alliances are a major part of EVE and with this system, all players of an alliance will be able to fly under the same flag
user interface improvement
There will be a plethora of UI improvements to accommodate for new features and to lessen the learning curve for new players.
new agent functionality
Level 4 agents will accept pilots if they have sufficient standing
***new aggression system***
Better handling of Aggression and the way it treats player ownership,
which is a prerequisite for player owned structures is in EXODUS.
Better visual display of an aggressing pilot and the repercussions of
breaking the law are now more logical and extensive. As a result, a
CONCORD Memorandum has been issued to clarify Empire laws.
new npc types
***outposts***
Outpost: a compact, cheaper, effective alternative to stations.
***new world order***
old superhighways will shut down a new world order is forming. More than 30 new passageways into the deep space regions
***system sovereignty***
Sovereignty now allow Alliances to deploy player owned outposts and
gives a 25% decrease to Starbase fuel consumption. Starbases in general
are getting more efficient in reactions and require less fuel.
cosmos constellations
Expansion of NPC content
leadership overhaul
More now than ever before, leadership will decide what the balance of
power is, and who has the uncontested advantage in combat. As part of a
general overhaul to fleet warfare, new skills and modules will improve
your ability to defend and attack in groups.
new complexes
Where there is ISK to be had, you can count on a number of people there
to get their "fair" share. Of course, these gentle pilots utilize
"fair" force to achieve what they consider "fair". Who came up with
that word anyways?
***dreadnoughts & freighters***
Holy shit....big ass captial ships
***COMBAT IMPROVEMENTS***
- Missile Warfare
- Logistics Cruisers:
- Armor Plating, Shield Extenders, and Shield Boosters: Increases across the board to offer more strategies for combat setups
- Mobile Warp Disruptors
- Faction Ammunition
- Cruisers: Faster, more agile, and more versatile than ever before
- Drones: Tech Level 2 drones available
- Player vs. Player logoff timer: When engaged with another player in
combat, your ship will now stay in space considerably. Engaging an NPC
is unchanged and warps your ship away as usual.
research breakthroughs & skills
esearch Agents now give out Tech Level 2 Missile Launchers, Passive
Shield and Armor Hardeners, Combat and Mining Drone. The corresponding
skills to them use them all are also available on the market in
addition to skills for the new ships and additional missile skills to
allow further specialization.
titans
The largest spacefaring vessels ever created
***carriers & motherships***
Massive ships providing fighter coverage and support for fleets
***tech 2 ships***
Interdictors are elite destroyers with the ability to launch small anti-warp bubbles.
Reconnaissance ships will come in two variants: Combat Recon and Force Recon.
Command ships are elite battlecruisers that are also feature two variants.
Between the Tech II Mining Barges and race-specific variants, a total of 39 new ships are introduced in Red Moon Rising.
***bloodlines***
All races now have playable asian bloodlines
project rebirth
woot! Jump clones!
***next-gen manufacturing & research facilities***
Mass manufacturing and remote management
***combat revisited***
Eight new skills are added to enhance damage-withstanding capabilities,
and most ships received a 25% increase to overall hitpoints. Damage
Controls give resistance bonuses to shields, armor and hull. Reinforced
Bulkheads will further increase the defensive properties of the Damage
Control module.
Some ships just don't have what it takes, are too limited, or too weak
in their designed role. The Mk2 project will make a number of Tech 1
ships fit better into their existing roles and creates a role for ships
that didn't have one.
The stacking penalty of modules has changed, decreasing the penalty for
using two (2) or three (3) modules of the same type, but increasing the
penalty for using four (4) or more modules of same type.
drones revisited
The total number of drones that each pilot can control will be reduced;
therefore the drone interfacing skill and ship bonuses will change
accordingly to compensate. Overall drone damage output potential and
hitpoints are unaffected.
New drones include four types of Electronic Warfare drones, a Stasis
Webifying drone, a Cap Draining drone, a Repair Drone, and last but not
least, an unmovable high-damage, long-range drone called the Sentry
drone.
eye for an eye
f you lose your ship within Empire space because of unsanctioned
combat, you earn the right to revenge your loss for a limited time, and
can kill the assailant on sight
jettison canister flagging
If a pilot takes anything from your jettisoned canister, then your gang
and/or your corporations will flag that pilot as a thief, and you are
permitted to open fire on the pilot responsible for stealing your loot.
CONCORD will neither enforce nor interfere with the matter, so it is up
to the owner of the stolen property to exercise his or her right. Be
warned that this could be used as a trap to lure smaller fleets into
sanctioned engagements.
tractor beam
The tractor beam is a short-range module that can tow loot and
jettisoned containers to your ship's hold. They can only be used on
canisters belonging to you, your gang, or your corporation.
The interface is the same, the gameplay is the same, and the backstory is the same. It has had things added to it, but it wasn't a wholesale redefinition of the entire gameplay like SWG was.
Basically, its still the same EVE that anybody who played EVE in 2003, 2004, 2005, and 2006 would understand and be able to play. Its not like SWG which redefined the entire way you play the game, and turning your rulebook into a coaster.
In the post above this, I compiled a list of all the new features that were added/modified by the three content expansion patches. Those features in red or labled in *** are those features that had a massive impact on the gameplay.
Compared to the launch release, today's EVE is a completely different beast. There's no way you can look at that list and say the interface, the gameplay, and the backstory is relatively the same as it was when EVE was launched.
BTW, the list was a compilation of E-ON's expansion features list. As I recall, the author did mention in a paragraph or 2 the difference between today's EVE and the launch version.
My opinion, if you're going to re-review something, if at all possible have the original reviewer do it.
All of it is balancing, additions to content, and refining elements in the game. It happens in all games, like City of Heroes, or Everquest II. Yet not all of them get a second review, nor should they, because the fundamental concepts underpinning the game are the same, just as it is in EVE.
I don't see City of Heroes get a second review because they added in the new ATs, or changed around the costumes in Issue 7, or a second review of Lineage II because of Chronicle V (My mistake. Lineage II was re-reviewed, and I oppose that re-review on the same grounds). What would be the point though since CoH, and Lineage II, like EVE, were the same basic game with enhancements any subscription based game, provides?
What happened in Star Wars Galaxies was an entire reinvention of the fundamental concepts like, what it means to be a character, and how you interact with NPCs, and how you go about the game. A second review in that case was appropriate, because it was a whole new game.
This is not the case here though, and EVE is getting special treatment, and one might say, biased treatment for doing the same periodic updates every other game on this site does.
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
The interface is the same, the gameplay is the same, and the backstory is the same. It has had things added to it, but it wasn't a wholesale redefinition of the entire gameplay like SWG was.
Basically, its still the same EVE that anybody who played EVE in 2003, 2004, 2005, and 2006 would understand and be able to play. Its not like SWG which redefined the entire way you play the game, and turning your rulebook into a coaster.
And then you shot your own argument down. The interface is not the same. The gameplay has changed a lot. The backstory has evolved. Are you saying you want a wholesale change of gameplay like SWG? For a rabid eve hateboi, you could atleast get your facts right. BTW anyone who played in 2003 or 2004 would be completely lost if they got into eve now. Nothings the same.
1. The interface is completely different.
2. The gameplay is completelt different especially the realationships between the various sizes and classes of ships. Combat has been changed a lot and its completely different from 2003.
3. The backstory has evolved. What exactly do you want the eve devs to do? Would you like them to change the settings to Norrath one fine day and claim they have a totally new backstory? Thats prolly the dumbest statement in your post. The rest is just all based on ignorance.
Ps. I've played eve since 2003. I know better than you. So shutup before you shove more of your foot up your mouth.
Pps. I also played AC2, wOW, DDO, EQ2, Coh and I can see the good and bad points. You dont see me slating them for things I dont like about them.
It's better be hated for who you are, than loved for who you aren't.
The interface for Matrix Online was improved to handle Customer Service better, yet it doesn't get a second review. I also don't know of any game that hasn't progressed in terms of the storyline, but they don't get re-reviewed every time something progresses or doesn't (and by the way, the storyline in EVE is progressing very slowly in things like the Gallente elections and the Amarr succession).
Do I want wholesale change like SWG on EVE? I wouldn't wish that on anyone. I still play EVE, and I like EVE. Its because I like EVE that I wish MMORPG.com would give it an honest rating in a fair way, so they don't look like they are polishing an Icelandic turd to all of those that are getting sick of the EVE hype at a time when EVE is behind schedule with Kali, and has issues with CS.
I just want some fairness, equity, and honesty in the process, and a little bit of thought into exactly why the categories have been improved or demoted based upon the precedent of the previous reviewer. If that makes me a "rabid EVE hateboi," so be it, but I want the process to be fair, and based on a compelling reason that is applicable to all.
If EVE is a good game that can stand toe to toe with the rest here, then it shouldn't require special treatment just to satisfy the EVE players.
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
That's great, but what specifically has changed that has made your particular experience better today than it was when you started?
If you could explain fully, and in detail in your experience before, and your experience now, as made possible by the game changes, it will better help us grasp exactly why its better to get into EVE now than at any other point.
Before when i played i messed around a lil tried mining and some ratting. We had mining ops for the corp but just so we can buy ships for our leaders ect nothing special. All there was to do then is mine the few types of ores or go PvP in 0.0 and make alliances there was nothing in empire.Now you can build your own stations in empire or 0.0 and build your corporation however you see fit
Ok before when i played there were only haulers- frigates - cruisers - and battleships not counting shuttles Now you have somany more ships you can fly and each has its own purpose i realy dont feel like putting evary class and ship on here if your intrested go look it all up at www.eve-online.com.
Having many more ships to me means alot more fun PvP styles and if you wanna go industrial you can work for a mining barge which is dedicated for mining which eve didnt have before also they have a new class for haulers i forgot what its called but they are made for traders so they can haul a huge capacity of stuf.
Jump clones - Now there are jump clones which means u can jump to the opposite side of space without having to go like 40 system jumps or more plus another benefit to this is if you have Expensive implants on your skill clone and if u wanna pvp for a time you can just change to your jump clone and not have to worry about the huge loss- for those who dont know what Implants do they give you attribute boosts which means you can learn your skills faster , like if a skill takes 2 days with a implant it could take 1 day and 5 hours.
Missions - before they didnt have this variety of missions ,they were boring and you didnt have the LOYALITY point gain which is huge they have made this better by adding more variations but it still need more work imo. There are skill books now which boost loyality point gain with an agent. At 60 k lp i got a offer for 4 +3 attribute implants which were worth 25-30 mil each and at 120k lp i got 8 besides the lp gain u get bounty from rats, Story line missions < huge,missions rewards and bonuses which can be altered based on skill , and nice drops if u check your cans. So befor when i played missions wasnt worth it and u realy had 2 choices for making ISK - mine - hunt rats in dangerous 0.0 now u can safely make money as a fighter.
Complexes-Before you didnt have complexes but now u do ......bling...... they have diffrent difficulties for complexes and you can take your crew and try them out hoping for big faction drops from tough rats which will make you rich.
Ore- Before you had only plaq - veld - omber ect but now you have like 3 diffrent variations of each ore which makes it more intresting while mining if you like to mine plus i saw a ore called dark orche which i didnt see when i played over 2 years ago i bet there are even more types of ores.
Wardeck - This means you can declare war on a corporation if u want. You can even make your own corp and put an alt in it and wardeck anyone you want
There are alot more skills then before and more stuf i can post if i go deeper but truely im still a noob but like a stage 5 noob with it goes up to 10 lol I bet a person that has stayed for years can explain all the changes better but i hope this helps.
Datcyde.
Ok you said 15 dreads........... im not even sure if any alliance actuly EVER flew with 15 dreads in a system at once but if they did it would be happening often. Im not sure if your complainign or what but ive never seen a exploit yet but i know that people that try to flood the system with shuttles or bantams can get banned from the game.
I have been playing the game for over 2 years now with multiple accounts. This game is well worth the time to learn and have fun with. If you are looking for a challenge that is not the normal grind then Eve Online is for you.
Maurauder - CEO - Orion's Forge http://orionsforge.guildportal.com
The interface for Matrix Online was improved to handle Customer Service better, yet it doesn't get a second review. I also don't know of any game that hasn't progressed in terms of the storyline, but they don't get re-reviewed every time something progresses or doesn't (and by the way, the storyline in EVE is progressing very slowly in things like the Gallente elections and the Amarr succession).
Do I want wholesale change like SWG on EVE? I wouldn't wish that on anyone. I still play EVE, and I like EVE. Its because I like EVE that I wish MMORPG.com would give it an honest rating in a fair way, so they don't look like they are polishing an Icelandic turd to all of those that are getting sick of the EVE hype at a time when EVE is behind schedule with Kali, and has issues with CS.
I just want some fairness, equity, and honesty in the process, and a little bit of thought into exactly why the categories have been improved or demoted based upon the precedent of the previous reviewer. If that makes me a "rabid EVE hateboi," so be it, but I want the process to be fair, and based on a compelling reason that is applicable to all.
If EVE is a good game that can stand toe to toe with the rest here, then it shouldn't require special treatment just to satisfy the EVE players.
I don't know about MxO, but then again I'm noyt the one that claimed that Eve's interface hasn't changed. The fact that MxO didnt get a second review, doesnt disprove the fact that you lied about eve's interface being the same as 2003.
The storyline progress is slow is it? Better than a lot of games where the storyline doesnt progress at all.
Yes the roleplaying value has gone up. Mainly because there are more subscribers and more roleplayers. That would ofcourse improve the rolepalying aspect of the game.
The game does not lag as much as you claim. It only lags a bit in really high density systems. Its def better than WoW or EQ2.
You claim you're not an eve hateboi and you like the game....yet you call it an icelandic turd in the very same sentence. Are you suffering from dual personalities or sumin.
Horizons got rereviewed a long time ago. Didnt see you scream and shout about it.
The MMORPG guys say they are going to rereview EQ2 as well. I hope you'll be there to show us why it doesnt need to be rereviewed. Just because you suck at eve doesnt make teh game bad. It just means you suck at eve.
Beatnik59,
I understand your points and I welcome the debate. However, I think we simply have different views on how things should be done. In my opinion, MMORPGs - unlike single player games - are always growing and changing. That is why I want to do new reviews. The latest one obviously becomes our official score. The old one still exists simply for housekeeping.
The key is, whatever your policy may be, to be consistent. For me, it would be a greater injustice to pick and choose which games you re-review. Then, we have companies asking us for re-reviews at opportune times. Having a blanket one year policy (in theory at least, availability of writers changes that) makes sure every game knows it gets looked at each year. So long as we do it for everyone, it works. EVE just happened to be one of the first ones we went back to. Next week, you'll see the WoW re-review, for example.
Someone else mentioned having the original writer re-review. I agree, in a perfect world that is what we will do, but it is the nature of these things that that is not always possible. For example, Richard Duffek did a good number of our early reviews. We cannot very well have a guy who is now a community rep for Mythic Entertainment doing our reviews, can we?
Dana Massey
Formerly of MMORPG.com
Currently Lead Designer for Bit Trap Studios
I think it's a fair review overall but it doesn't touch on some negative aspects of the design.
First off I played EVE Online when it was first released and it had major problems with some of it's design and bugged features that took too long to fix from my perspective, most of which have been fixed since but not soon enough to keep me playing, and some still impact the game negatively today.
The main problem with the game currently is the real world time based skill learning system. It doesn't reward those who spend more time in the virtual world, rewards those who pay more in terms of subscription fees, and thus will always maintain an advantage for veterans. This is undeniable even if it's a small percentage. This makes the game unfriendly to newcomers who are willing to work harder at developing their skills than a veteran player and establishes an aura of unfairness because it is not based on merit.
This also dampens immersion, because a virtual world should not have obvious ties to the real world. Skill development is supposed to be relative to what transpires in the virtual world only, otherwise the premsie of such a virtual world is destroyed.
EVE Online is a world based on power structure, and manufacturing is one of the core aspects of the game for creating wealth and along with it, power. Many newer players may not know of the original nerf that moved high quality rare ores from secure space to unsecure space which allowed those early veterans prior to the nerf to gain a huge advantage in jump starting their manufacturing and establishing a power base. This is an imbalance which exists today because it is what made many of the powerful corporations what they are. This was a huge mistake because of improper testing and demanded a rollback which didn't transpire.
Gamers expect to have to play catch up when joining a pre existing virtual world, wether it be developing your character's skills or pursuing crafting/manufacturing for trade, but the expectation is that with added effort, one can do so thru merit, which is not the case in EVE Online.
Another negative aspect is solo play vs group/corporation play. You can solo in EVE Online, but it is certainly geared for group play so it should be noted in any review that this is not a game that will appeal to most soloers, who do have a large presence in the MMOG genre. I don't believe all MMOGs should try to be everything for everybody, which is why EVE Online is and will be a niche game, but that is fine.
"We feel gold selling and websites that promote it damage games like Vanguard and will do everything possible to combat it."
Brad McQuaid
Chairman & CEO, Sigil Games Online, Inc.
Executive Producer, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes
www.vanguardsoh
Here's an interesting tidbit I dug up:
Ryzome
Lineage 2
Horizon
EQ II: Desert of Flames
EQ II: Splitpaw Saga
DAoC: New Frontiers
DAoC: Trials of Atlantis
DAoC: Darkness Rising
SWG: NGE
The point I wanted to make is that with the typical business model of releasing optional expansion packs for profit, it is very easy for journalists to review or re-review a MMO along the lines defined by the expansion packs. But what about those MMO's that have expanded their gameplay via frequent patches or by non-optional expansion patches? There's no clearly defined line that says this MMO has evolved to a point such that our orginal review of the product is no longer accurate. This is a delimmea faced by MMO companies and game journalists.
If I recall correctly, IGN has a policy of not re-reviewing MMOs unless a commercial expansion pack is being released. Their arguement is that IGN's service is to educate and and provide insight to potential game purchasers...basicly giving the gamers a tool to help them decide where to spend their money. Therefore a free, mandatory expansion download is not sufficient for IGN to re-review the game, even if the expansion increases the game by several orders of magnitude.
dont be so quick to call problems. for me the skill training is perfect, the best so far i have seen. IMHO it is just fair to reward veteran players not because they have paid more, but because they have been on the game more time, and real time training is the most elegant way to do that. and at the same time it takes away the grind.
and of course, you should know that the only reason you are able to catch up veterans on any other MMORPG is because they are capped at a pointless, stupid and artificial level limit. if it werent for that crappy feature veterans would be ahead on every game.
meanwhile, EVE accepts this, and decided to not have a level limit. instead there is a limit to every skill, so that you can only train to level 5. that, and the 300 different skills make it so that veterans can not be the best at everything and any new player can be the best at any single thing within 5 or 6 months, and be just as good as a 3 year old player.
i starte 1 year ago, and i am already wining a lot of money producing ships and modules, competing with 3 year vets on the same ground. at the same time i am a very good miner, and a decent mision runner and pvper. in fact, i am as good with the dominix as anybody can be. so i dont care if a veteran has 15 million skill points more than i do. when fighting on a domi nobody can have more skills than me.
Russian team - work in
New MMORPG Game "EXPANSION: History of Galaxy"
http://www.expansion.net.ua
Thanks for all the replies guys.
Yes, I did read the first review and I thought it was very well thought out. I thought it spent a lot of time describing the gameplay and backstory. Being as this was a re-review I decided to use my space to focus on the gameplay elements that stood out to me personally rather then simply repeating the previous review.
Looking back I wish I would have gone into detail about all the elements that changed since the first review, but nonetheless it give an accurate picture of my take on the game. My opinion doesn't count for more just because it's published and it is silly to think I chose to do it for any other reason then it was available and needed another look. Obviously not everyone will agree with me, even the people who enjoy it for different reasons or have had different experiences in the game. That's the great thing about the forums: You are free to disagree.
Until next time
Notice: The views expressed in this post are solely those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the reviews of MMORPG.com or its management.
and of course, you should know that the only reason you are able to catch up veterans on any other MMORPG is because they are capped at a pointless, stupid and artificial level limit. if it werent for that crappy feature veterans would be ahead on every game.
meanwhile, EVE accepts this, and decided to not have a level limit. instead there is a limit to every skill, so that you can only train to level 5. that, and the 300 different skills make it so that veterans can not be the best at everything and any new player can be the best at any single thing within 5 or 6 months, and be just as good as a 3 year old player.
i starte 1 year ago, and i am already wining a lot of money producing ships and modules, competing with 3 year vets on the same ground. at the same time i am a very good miner, and a decent mision runner and pvper. in fact, i am as good with the dominix as anybody can be. so i dont care if a veteran has 15 million skill points more than i do. when fighting on a domi nobody can have more skills than me.
I am not surprised you like the real world time based skill system and that you happen to be from Europe.
The real world time based skill system is a socialist one, as it rewards and protects veterans and doesn't emphasize merit which would be more capitalistic.
I think the design stems from CCP's Icelandic/Scandinavian orientation. Most Scandinavian and some European countries are socialists, especially in regards to the workplace, protecting jobs regardless of productivity and offering rewards mainly based on seniority. To some extent you see that here in America in the "old boys network" but certainly to a lesser extent than our European and Scandinavian counterparts.
Veterans would not be ahead of all players all the time in an open ended leveling-skill raising system. Obviously it would be based on an individuals participation in the virtual world. Newcomers who are more active will catch up and even surpass some veterans and that is fair.
"We feel gold selling and websites that promote it damage games like Vanguard and will do everything possible to combat it."
Brad McQuaid
Chairman & CEO, Sigil Games Online, Inc.
Executive Producer, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes
www.vanguardsoh
A well compiled Re-Review.
Every game has the Pros & Cons.
I found Eve to be very entertaining for the 4 months that I let myself loose into the Universe.
It has a very steep learning curve which too me... is nice, you either love it or hate it.
The Tutorial is a very nice, normaly gets rid of all the Idiots you would rather not have to listen to.
One of the most mature communitys Iv ever had the pleasure to be apart of.
I wholly agree with you on this one. I feel this is a function of the steep learning curve, in that it filters out some of the younger, more impatient crowd. I don't think CCP has data available, but I'd bet the average age of the EVE player is older than most other MMORPGs. It's style seems to be more compatable with someone who is more of a part-time gamer, maybe logging on for an hour or two, once every couple days. I play in this way, and am able to run a nice small scale industrial operation, by myself.
CraziFuzzy
When you first begin, yes. But it's a misconception that you can never match someone who's played longer than you. This isn't a level-based game. Just because someone has 10 million more skillpoints than you, it doesn't mean they're invincible to your attacks. A person's abilities is dictated by what ship and modules they're currently using. Skills only add small percentages and allow you to use more modules but they are not uber-powerful style buffs.
Id also like to add that everything is achievable, so lets take WoW as an example there is no way me being a casual player after 6-12 months of play and gaining level 60 able to compete against a player thats fully Tier 3 EPIC gear and belongs to a Tier 2-3 guild! i WILL NEVER see that gear. Now as for Eve-Online its a matter of time, remember there are ONLY 5 levels per catagory thus no matter how long the player has been in Eve-Online about all they will TRUELY have over you (aside from ingame skill/knowledge of PvP) is variety either way he will ONLY have Frigate 5 and all related skills for Frigate as 5 which is attainable by ANYONE over time.
I hope i made my point, im not very good expressing my self on forums.
1. The most important thing to me: No Big Spaceships Battles. Not even "medium". I dont know if its the client or the server side, but if there are more then 15-20 ships in the same area in fight things go slow. And, its so fast paced that you are destroyed in a blink of eyes. Even more, you can jump into a trap and with a big armoured battleship you can survive 3-5 seconds before explode, because some pirates blocked the jump gate. So, big, intense, lasting space pvp battles are INEXISTENT. So, I dont agree with the Lag=10 score. Obviously, you didnt try to have a decent space battle. For me, lag=6 (server or client, I dont care).
2. PvE is a joke. The missions are so dumb you actually do the same mission over and over in order to gain reputation with the agent and get some reward.
3. Lack of multiplayer ships. That I think is VERY IMPORTANT to feel a real space opera environment. Ships with 3,6, or even more players, each one taking a role in it, like gunners, engineers, tactics... man, this should be FUN!. And that also would make a great cooperative, real party oriented game.
4. You cant respecc. Thats the major flaw of the "open" skill, time based. The days you spent learning to drive big cargo vessels for example cant be refunded. So, if you wanted to be a trader, but later you want to fly that superb interceptor thingy, you have to train the skills and wait endless days, even months. You cant forget your learning like other mmorpgs and respecc your skills. That is demoralizing, even more when you see "26 days" to learn the 5th level skill needed to drive that kind of ships.
5. You are not "free" to do whatever you want. 0.0 space, where you have to go if you want real isk, is owned by players corps. So, you HAVE TO join a corp and depend on players decisions. That isn't so bad as you have more fun if you get involved in corp wars, but you cant avoid it
And there are some more I dont mention. I know there is some fun in EVE, like a very good player driven economy, stunning graphics, wise module system, great environment... but EVE is far from being an intense, deep space experience. Simply, it lacks the basics of the great s&f moments.
Ship replavment always take time, as so many people tend todo it, often when its clearly there own fault they exploded. so have some patiants, if they rushed it many people would be having ships and isk replaced that didnt deserve it.
Also i feel you might have wanted to metion Kali and the new client and graphic updates, eve will soon be a much more shiny place to play
Other than that all good, just wish they would balance t2 bpo's these just too few resulting in a small number of tor ich for there won good players.
WE RODE ON THE WINDS OF THE RISING STORM,
WE RAN TO THE SOUNDS OF THE THUNDER.
WE DANCED AMOUG THE LIGHTNING BOLTS,
WE TORE THE WORLD ASUNDER.
- The Dragon ReBorn