The most important thing about the new features is not their individual content, it's the fact that they're simple often but fundamental changes to a complex] system, and as such their impact is usually far more profound than their simple descriptions suggest. POS and sov have, for example, completely changed the nature of Alliance combat, along with the attendant dreadnaughts and other captials. The addtion of Tech 2 (since release IIRC) has fundamentally changed the economy. Some of the new ships (in particular Covert Ops ship and Interdictors) have again caused huge sweeping changes to the way PvP plays out. Similarly the simple addition of mobile war disruptors had major knock-on changes to how well you could control travel routes and thus interfere with combat and logistics efforts.
In any case, that's all secondary stuff. The important thing about Eve is the way the mechanics and tools allow player groups to interact. I fly with RAZOR, part of the "northern block" comprising half a dozen or so alliances in the north of the map, and I've been at war for going on two months now. At the beginning of July the map looked like this: http://dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/CRII/01.07.108.jpg
The main northern block at the time was Dusk and Dawn (D2), ourselves, CDC, Guard and RAWR, with FLA Sparta and NFC at a somewhat uneasy peace in Dek. As you can see, Cloud Ring was contested by the Goons, an alliance made up mainly of thousands of new players from the SomethingAwful forums who managed to gain a foothold in CR due to, basically, sloppy admin work. We decided we didn't really want them there and started our war to evict them from our borderlands. The initial attack underestimated their strength and was repulsed, causing command staff to reduce the intensity of the conflict while they figured out a better second strike. This lead to several weeks of fighting in the contested area while things were sorted out.
Then chaos broke out in Deklein. IRON moved in to reclaim their former territory, and NFC resisted. FLA pitched in on the side of IRON as they'd recently fought a bloody civil war with former allies NFC, while Sparta remained wisely neutral. The other northern powers held back from intervening, as they had NAPs with all parties involved, IRON being very old friends of D2. Then an NFC fleet commander was caught actively helping the Goons move capital ships through Branch and several other events caused the remaining neutral parties in the north to side with IRON and FLA. NFC rapidly collapsed but many of their former corps (guilds) joined Sparta, who tried to retain NFC's hold on key systems. Everyone summarily declared war on Sparta, who hired in mercenaries Burn Eden and publically enlisted the Goons to help them. FLA replied by hiring Mercenary Coalition (after outbidding Sparta for their services) and the other northern alliances, determined to stop the Goons gaining a foothold in their heartlands, quickly shifted focus to Dek.
After a short but decisive war which saw the Goons unable or unwilling to lend the necessary support, Sparta collapsed and D2 took over their former territory. The strategic focus then went back to the Cloud Ring conflict, where the northern allies struck a fierce blow to the Goons, erecting thirty starbases in the key system over two nights, significantly outnumbering the Goon starbases and thus guaranteeing them control of the station after the five-day timer elapsed. The Goons responded with a call to arms from their leader, declaring their intention to bring in several large southern alliances, lock down the system and destroy the newly-erected starbases.
The first night of their seige went badly, with only two starbase towers damaged and none destroyed, and their overnight lockdown of the only stargate into the system swiftly dismantled as european-time forces came back online in the morning. It looked unlikely that they were going to succeed in their goal even then, but then a further blow came: due to a controversial forum signature (involving a dead player and SomethingAwful "humour") Band of Brothers, widely regarded as the strongest alliance in the cluster, declared a holy war on the Goons and vowed to destroy them utterly. Their expected strike against the Goon assets in Cloud Ring never came, but neither did the Goons' allies, many citing recent events as the reason for changing their mind. Unprecedented (and thus far unexplained) levels of system lag made the fighting on friday night near-impossible, but the Goons were faced with a herculean task anyway, one which they clearly didn't have the infrastructure to complete. Instead, they pulled their remaining assets out using jump-capable carriers and retreated to defend their homelands and wage war on their enemies in Empire space.
While we were busy in CR, the forces of the Tau Ceti Federation, a French-speaking alliance based in the no-man's-land of Venal, seized the opportunity to attack RAWR in Tribute. Unfortunately for them, the western front collapsed far more quickly than they'd predicted and allied forces piled back east to remove this latest threat. While smaller than the Goons, TCF are far more experienced fighters and the war thus far has been hard and bloody, with one engagement seeing both sides lose seven dreadnaught-class starbase-busters apiece. The first of the two contested systems has now returned to friendly hands but D7 still remains a contested system, sitting astride a vital travel corridor and thus being a key system to control. We're confident that we will eventually evict the squatters - their botched diplomacy means a settlement is unlikely at this stage - but we're expecting the war to go on for a while yet.
Cloud Ring is now in the hands of RISE, who took ownership from D2 once the Goons were cleared out. Dek is now split between D2, FLA and IRON. And, although it's not shown (the map is produced by Joshua Foiritain, who's just another player and thus not always 100% accurate), Tribute is still disputed.
That is why a lot of us play Eve. Not because of the graphics or the mechanics or how many points it gets in a poxy review. If you want to go on bashing NPCs in WoW, be my guest. We're busy fighting a full-scale galactic war, with multiple fronts, a huge logistics chain, politics, drama, territory changing hands, and people losing days or weeks of work in a single ill-judged engagement against superior forces. I can go out there in my little frigate that I could fly when I was three weeks old and play an important role (yes, really) in a key battle which helps decide the fate of a thousand stars and ten thousand space pilots. At the end of the war, one side will win and the other side will lose in a real and tangible way, and as a result all this stuff matters. There aren't that many games out there that can make the same claim.
Originally posted by (MG)Toast ...... <SNIP> That is why a lot of us play Eve. Not because of the graphics or the mechanics or how many points it gets in a poxy review. If you want to go on bashing NPCs in WoW, be my guest. We're busy fighting a full-scale galactic war, with multiple fronts, a huge logistics chain, politics, drama, territory changing hands, and people losing days or weeks of work in a single ill-judged engagement against superior forces. I can go out there in my little frigate that I could fly when I was three weeks old and play an important role (yes, really) in a key battle which helps decide the fate of a thousand stars and ten thousand space pilots. At the end of the war, one side will win and the other side will lose in a real and tangible way, and as a result all this stuff matters. There aren't that many games out there that can make the same claim.
Amen brother, you explained very well the fact that the PvP is really incredible -- not so much in a BattleField2/TomClancy/FPS type way (i.e. shoot/die/respawn rinse repeat) but in a OMFG I just lost a ship/outpost/station that took me/us 1 week/month/year to build.
The "losses" hurt so f....g badly I've had to get up walk around the block, lay down and watch TV to cool off, consider quiting this f....g game, then inevitibly come back for more.
The "adrenelin" rush can be second to none when you know that "respawning" will cost you dearly.
The alliances mentioned by Toast are the warriors in the game. I belonged to an "industrial/carebear" alliance "The Big Blue" whose mission was to build and sell the Titans/Dreadnoughts and other capital ships while remainng neutral and "opening up 0.0 space to the beginning pilots".....well our mission (undertaken in late fall 2005) was also quashed in the past 30 days. But the two primary corps in the alliance - my 600 man corporation Eve Univeristy, and the Tech 2 builders in NAGA remain fairly strong and committed to important elements of thier mission.
Even as a "CareBear" you have to respect the warriors....the stuff they blow up is the stuff I build and sell to them.
Toast just hit the nail on the head right there, that is THE draw of the game and that is what makes it special. The players are given such a fantastic groundwork to build our own stories from. This is what we mean by the players make the content. Anyone who comes into this game and does not get involved in the world is completely missing the point of the game in the first place.
As all the skills are time based (real world time) im not seeing how you were able to compete or achieve the skills necessary to do so.
[snip] Also, im not sure how you can rate PvP so high in a game that you basically Pay to become more powerful. The real world time based skill system means you abilities and power increase the longer you have an account, as opposed to the achievement model of most other games ( you do something you get better, skill or level based games, how ever long it takes you).
Just to address these points, let me first say that EVE is a fully skill based game. That takes a moment to sink in, unless you've played one before. The implications are not just that there are no classes, but that there are no levels either, and no single player can ever become the best at everything. Folks have calculated out that to learn every single skill in the game to max levels would take something like 20 years of real time! That is how a new player can compete and even do quite well against veterans who've played since day one. Sure, you'll never "catch up" and be as all-around powerful as one of the old timers, but you can be just as good at flying a frigate in a month. Before you dismiss that, remember that EVE is a multiplayer game, and frigates serve an important role in fleet combat. Unless you're just being a gate ganker, or a POS killer, you can always PvP in frigates, and honestly they're fun to fly. Added bonus that if you lose, you're probably only out a few million... losing a battleship hurts!
It's also quite possible to be an effective trader in only a month. You won't be flying the billion ISK freighter, but you can move an impressive amount of refined minerals in even a small industrial ship. Buying low in one region and selling in another is a good way to make money. Hauling for mining corporations is another.
Unlike other games out there, EVE doesn't hold your hand and lead you from point to point in your career. You really have to get in there and figure things out, and IMHO that's half the fun of it.
I love how people mention the steep learning curve and brag about it as if it was a game feature. Most of the time a steep learning curve derives from bad planning or lasiness of the programmers to educate the newbies on how to play the game through in-game help. A game being hard to get into is a minus since it drives people away, and I'm pretty sure that's not a good strategy in designing a game financially speaking.
Another thing that will decrease the player base is this great feature you fine folks flaunt. I am referring to the fact you will NEVER EVER catch up to an active older player. Yes this is a great feature. I will always be inferior , that is the selling point of EVE to new players GENIUS
But wait there's more. Once you get into the meat and potatoes of the game aka PvP yaaaaaay, there's a steep penalty for death....boooooooo. Yes this is what will make anyone want to play EVE, especially considering that death hurts players with alot less resources more aka newers players. BRILLIANCE
The strategy of the EVE makers is obviously simple. They have made a game which only veteran players aka fanbois would want to buy. Now this is great dog gone way to get asses in seats.
It's better be hated for who you are, than loved for who you aren't.
I have never had a high respect for this site as a professional gaming website anyways, but the info here is often good.
EvE is a boring game if you dont like every single aspect of it. Very boring.
Being totally honest and generous i give EVE a total rating of 6. Fun factor a 3.
MMORPGs are going to be split into more accurate categories in the near future or even get another name. Over 90% of the games covered on this website are extremely boring to play, except wow but im burnt out on it and cant enjoy it anymore. But games like SUN, Hellgate London and Huxley are on the horizon and there is a huge demand for such games. Action packed and fast.
I have a 22m eve char still in trainig so i have played for more than just the trial. (im not paying for it and my friend is training it)
As people have stated before the real time learning system does heavily favor veteran players. I agree that time spent in game should relate to how much a person gains skill wise and item wise. However, there is one aspect people seem to be forgeting in that this game does take some merit of skill. Of course you will never know the same amount of skills as other pilots who started before you, but that doesn't mean they will blow you out of the water everytime you cross paths. What will put off most people about this game is the simple fact that there is some actual thought and skill involved when it comes to making your choices, and this doesn't come when you get to a certain level. It is thrown at you the minute you create your character. Like I have stated before I agree that players who actually play more should recieve better turn outs than those who don't. However games that work in this manner have their downfalls as well. It shouldn't be enough that since you play more than one person you should be better than he or she is. To many games are designed poorly in this way. Ultimately when it comes down to it a players worth isn't measured by their skills and actual knowledge of the game, but by pure time spent online. While Eve works in the same way by favoring those who have been with the game longer than others. Good Arguements have been made to suggest that with the right forethought and skill a player who has started later than another stands a good chance. This does not negate the fact that their real time based skill system was a poor design element in the overall scheme of things. It simply contradicts the statement that those who have played longer or payed more will always win because there are other variables such as the intelligence and skill each individual player has.
I think Eve was a fun game while I played it, but it is not a game for those who are simply looking for the next run of the mill MMORPG. Create your character, pick a class, kill mobs to level up. The road isn't that simple, and I think those who expect it to be will find themselves going nowhere.
Eve is my current game of choice and while I enjoy it with minimal complaint I can see what others take issue with. However I can't see what others enjoy about games such as WoW do fair dos.
My point is that EVE isn't a game for everyone. You need patience and some maturity to enjoy it and many players have been trained to expect shallow instant gratification and a long steady grind. That didn't come out right but never mind. There is no grind in EVE unless that's what you're after. Yeah missions get repetitive but what game's don't?
So if you don't like EVE it's because you're not the sort of person its geared towards. That doesn't mean there's anything wrong with it or you, just that your tastes are different. Go find your game and play it and stop criticising those who disagree with you already.
"Two roads diverged in a wood, and I-- I took the one less traveled by, And that has made all the difference." -- The Road Not Taken by Robert Frost
I have played EVE off and on for years now and this re-review is fairly decent but there are 2 categories, in particular, that I dissagree with. The rest really are pretty good.
The first category I have a problem with is the rating of 10 for "Lag/Performance" This is an utter crime. I'm sorry... EVE is many things but it is NOT lag free. This should have been about a 7 or 8 rating, still above average, but not nearly a 10. There are MANY occasions within the game where you will lag (especially in crowded sectors). And, no, sorry... with today's technology that is NOT excuseable.
The second category I had a problem with is the rating of 9 for customer support. I don't know how the reviewer came up with the '9' but I would rate EVE's customer support as 'average'... around a 5 or 6.
Other than that I would say the review was dead on.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sig image Pending Still in: A couple Betas
Originally posted by Gorukha I love how people mention the steep learning curve and brag about it as if it was a game feature. Most of the time a steep learning curve derives from bad planning or lasiness of the programmers to educate the newbies on how to play the game through in-game help. A game being hard to get into is a minus since it drives people away, and I'm pretty sure that's not a good strategy in designing a game financially speaking.
It can and Alot of the people play EVE admits that it weeds out players pretty early which at least saves them money. Some of us my self included don't like games where everything is shoved at us. What turned me off from WoW and CoH was that with in the first hour of so I had figured pretty much everything to know it the game. For me a WoW and CoH didn't have a long lifespan as they werer simple games that didn't have that many aspects to enjoy. Looking at Single player games just for the fact that they've been around longer, the more complex games tend to have a longer shelf life and are played longer. 2 prime examples of this are SimCity and Civilization, Both series of games have been around for 15+ years and neither is what you would consider a simple game. From my experience in WoW, CoH, and EVE I'd say that EVE players tend to be more tolerant of a new player asking questions, since in WoW and CoH you are expected to know alot more because it has a simple game. The new tutorial in EVE does help people get into the base knowledge to play the game, and thats it. The player who spends more time figuring out the in depth information to become good at something is going to win out.
Another thing that will decrease the player base is this great feature you fine folks flaunt. I am referring to the fact you will NEVER EVER catch up to an active older player. Yes this is a great feature. I will always be inferior , that is the selling point of EVE to new players GENIUS
This is bringing the "level" mentality to judge EVE. I have to explain this to most of the newer players who join my corp in EVE and its easy to get a misunderstanding. NEVER will all of your skillpoints be in use at any given time. I know a Guy with 3 times(30million SP or about 3years) the Skill points I have and he can't even fly a cruiser. He spent most of his early days skilling manufacturing and research related skills. After that he never wanted to risk anything big so he flys nothing but T2 frigates and Destroyers. While he plays a significant role in combat most of new players can be flying a larger ship in about a week to 2 weeks.
its all because of the fact that instead of 1 master level that dictates how good you are each skill has a level. And only a certain skills levels are figured in at one time. Think of it in this Fantasy style. You have a healing spell skill, When your in a Priest mode you get all sorts of bonuses to this skill, Your a healing machine. if your in Paladin mode your a decient healer but now you have bonuses going towards Armor and Damage. Last you Have Warrior mode... You can't even cast a heal spell as the armor your wearing prevents you from doing it. Thats how EVE skill systems work. having multiple skills maxed out gives you more OPTIONS not make you a better player.
That all said when you look at the training time in EVE it perfectly matches the other MMOs. I have 12 months in EVE about. My character is equivlant to having 6 LvL 50 Characters of different classes. If I wanted to and I'm slowly doing I'll be training additional skills to be able to get ONE aspect of my character to the equivlant of a LVL60 with Tier 2 gear(Using the WoW equivlant as its a game I know some about and most people do know a little). Most players have 1 character in EVE which they can train in as many roles as you you want or as few. In WoW/EQ/CoH when your playing one character in a class NONE of your other characters are improving, which is not nessicarily the case in EVE. Since EVE does not have a linear system of training certain skills are used in multiple places, For instance a BIG hurdle for me is the 21 day skill of Cruiser 5. Cruiser 5 will open the door for T2 Damage ships, T2 Healing ships, and T2 Recon Ships. Effectively a single 21 day skill Allows my character to unlock the ability to spend a hour training into the equivlant of a Tier 2 equiped Priest, Warrior, and Rogue. Most people who start EVE don't realize the above which is fine as you don't really run into it till you start thinking about how your character is going to train out which well tends to not happen till after your trial.
But wait there's more. Once you get into the meat and potatoes of the game aka PvP yaaaaaay, there's a steep penalty for death....boooooooo. Yes this is what will make anyone want to play EVE, especially considering that death hurts players with alot less resources more aka newers players. BRILLIANCE
Not as much as you'd think. As EVE is very heavily group oriented its not uncommon for say a new player in a tackler (ship equiped to lock a ship in one place so others and obliterate it) to have any repairs or replacements payed for by a older player. I do this all the time. Most experienced players have no trouble doing it. As a tackler or Electronic Warfare ship you are going to be EXTREMLY important for the enemy to kill so hey guess who's going to die. Also guess what the NEW player was in many ways MORE important then me in my Battleship. So when they die my response once things cool down is usually, "You need any isk to fully insure your replacement ship? don't forget grab the stockpiled mods from the Corp hanger and let me know if you needed to buy anything so I can reimburse you." Its the group strategy wins and New players can play a vital role in the course of a 2 days training. You can Solo PVP but you have to know when to cut and run. the solo pirates are some of the Smartest people in the game as they weigh odds I don't even think about half the time, so although I hate it when I lose a ship to them I at least respect them for the person behind the ship.
The strategy of the EVE makers is obviously simple. They have made a game which only veteran players aka fanbois would want to buy. Now this is great dog gone way to get asses in seats.
No they built a game where you have to do some thinking to figure out whats going on and how to stab someone in the back to take advantage of. They made a game that would NOT be for everyone but the people who like it will stay in the game for a long time. EVE's a niche game, and I agree it will never have Millions of players... frankly I'm not sad. Put EVE in the catagory of the War sims like Silent Hunter, Panzer general, or Battlegrounds. Most people wouldn't argue if you gave those games High scores in a review and most people hate them. They score High because they did what they set out to do and they did it Amazingly.
If you want a Complex Space MMO game where what you do matters and a screw up can REALLY hurt you, in a enviroment that makes you truely wonder what you missed when you logged off... EVE is for you. If the the above is not true then don't play it.
I agree that WoW, EQ2, and CoH/V (The only games I've played and can comment on) also deserve to be in 8.0-8.9 bracket. They all did what they tried to do Pretty damn well. WoW became the Gateway drug into the MMO world. It has very little long term playability... but, ALOT of people(espicially the targetted 14-20 age group) will find it fun for at least a few months. EQ2 still maintains the version of the die hard fantasy MMORPG (though I give it the lowest of all of them because it has had several bumps in trying to accomplish its goal). CoH/V became the superhero game and the meccah for the hundred of thousands of comic book fans. All of them deserve thier due as great games for what they set out to be but NONE of them deserve the 9.0+ Of games that truely have everything and you need to try them.
Some times I wonder if I speak english I see so many grammer errors
Oh c'mon, admit CCP has payed MMORPG.com for this review, how else could you give this game an 9 to graphics? (ok, graphics are nice but I think you should take into account how much effort they needed to draw some ships), an 8 to sound? why? it's very repetitive and it has nothing special, but the worst part is the 8 given to fun... do you really have played this game? I tried to play it... 4 times! and all of them ended the same way, I stopped playing after 1 month because this game is completely unbearable, could you tell me how could you have fun when increasing your skills? when doing the same missions again and again? or better, when mining asteroids?? PVP is fun, and that's the only reason for which they shouldn't deserve a 1, but neither an 8, you are cheating future customers with this review
LOL I saw so many fanbois preaching about how fun this game is....so I tried it AGAIN after a long time.....after 4 hours I can honestly say this is one of the most boring games EVER. I agree with yah 100%, this game is for some wierd people who like alot of downtime during play and have absolutely no taste whatsoever . For someone to give this game anything more than a 2 or 3 in the fun factor category is an insult to my tiny intelligence.
It's better be hated for who you are, than loved for who you aren't.
Originally posted by Gorukha LOL I saw so many fanbois preaching about how fun this game is....so I tried it AGAIN after a long time.....after 4 hours I can honestly say this is one of the most boring games EVER. I agree with yah 100%, this game is for some wierd people who like alot of downtime during play and have absolutely no taste whatsoever . For someone to give this game anything more than a 2 or 3 in the fun factor category is an insult to my tiny intelligence.
(Parody: Not to be taken seriously)
Nooooooooooooooooo! You don't understaaand!
If you can't enjoy EVE then you need more Ritalin!!
The in-play down time is so I can go cook supper for my kids without dying or being eaten by a giant space goat on steroids!
Its not meant for the likes of you youngsters, with your single digit attention spans and your atari gametoys. Its for grown-up adults, like me.
(End of Parody)
But seriously, each to their own; if you don't like EVE then fair doos, but please recognise that it appeals to a particular target audience and that isn't you. Yet, good things come to those who wait
"Two roads diverged in a wood, and I-- I took the one less traveled by, And that has made all the difference." -- The Road Not Taken by Robert Frost
Alright, I got tired of reading the fan posts versus the non-fan posts. I will start off by saying that I started playing this game in 2002 as part of the closed beta. Much has changed in the universe of Eve-Online. So much so that I hold a huge regret about not having stayed subscribed the entirety of the time. In the last stages of beta, there were still many problems with the game, they removed alot of features that would cause problems later on, and added a few that seemed somewhat stupid in my own opinion. The day of the global release, there were numerous problems ingame that rendered it unplayable to a vast majority.
There has been much debate on whether the content has changed enough to warrant a re-review of the game in its whole. I would have to say that yes, a review of the game at release does not do any good justice to the game at its present state. That being said, many other games would also warrant a re-review.
Content has changed massively since the dawn of Eve-Online. Tech 2 modules and ships, huge change in the gameplay and skill requirements for usage. Hundreds of skills to choose from, only the basics were available when I started playing. Player Owned Structures/Alliances/System Sovereignty, all hugely important features that were added later. The much dreaded and infamous redistribution of ore, one of the largest changes to shape the universe of Eve. For those that do not know about it, there was once high-end ore in as high as .7 (Crokite etc.). Capital Ships, long awaited since the dawn of time. We were promised Titans as a future ship class before we left beta.
For those that dispute the "Fun" value given by the reviewer, they must realise that Eve-Online is a sandbox game. The fun is what fun you create for yourself. Recent events revealed a scammer that walked away with something like 490billion isk, I'm pretty sure he perceived that as fun . The world is a big place, and you are more than welcome to commit piracy, become a merchant, forge your way as an industrial powerhouse, defend (and sieze) space that you call your own.
In my opinion Eve-Online is one of the best MMORPGs out there, one that allows you to forge your own destiny and make a name for yourself in a community of thousands.
[quote]My only gripes in this category are the strange ability for you to be able to see the sun though completely solid matter like planets, moons or your own ship. [/quote]
If you would have done a little more research, you would have found out that this is simply a graphics option you had turned off. I'm not sure what it is right now, but when turned off it allows you to see the sun through solid objects. Otherwise the sun acts normally and is obscured by solid objects. Try changing your graphics options and rethink this comment. It makes you look rather silly and ignorant in your review.
If this was already mentioned, my apologies. It had to be said though since it is misleading and false for many players who have all their graphics turned up. (Not hard with the game's requirement being so low)
"this game is nothing more then spent money = skill"
You come on here , saying that skills are not all that important to be something in EvE but as soon as something is mentioned about changing the skill learning your all against it because you put in "your own time and money in it" so why should the new guy get any advantages?... I find this line of thinking funny when u say skills are not all that important..
"The monster created isn't by the company that makes the game, it's by the fans that make it something it never was"
Originally posted by Gorukha I love how people mention the steep learning curve and brag about it as if it was a game feature. Most of the time a steep learning curve derives from bad planning or lasiness of the programmers to educate the newbies on how to play the game through in-game help. A game being hard to get into is a minus since it drives people away, and I'm pretty sure that's not a good strategy in designing a game financially speaking.
Another thing that will decrease the player base is this great feature you fine folks flaunt. I am referring to the fact you will NEVER EVER catch up to an active older player. Yes this is a great feature. I will always be inferior , that is the selling point of EVE to new players GENIUS
But wait there's more. Once you get into the meat and potatoes of the game aka PvP yaaaaaay, there's a steep penalty for death....boooooooo. Yes this is what will make anyone want to play EVE, especially considering that death hurts players with alot less resources more aka newers players. BRILLIANCE
The strategy of the EVE makers is obviously simple. They have made a game which only veteran players aka fanbois would want to buy. Now this is great dog gone way to get asses in seats.
First -- the learning curve isn't so much steep as it is deep. The tutorial gets you going, but if you need to understand the entire game and strategies in 3 hours or 3 days go back to WoW.
As stated earlier you can quickly contribute and be on par in any chosen area, if you need to be "equal" to the veterans go back to Guild Wars.
The steep "death penalt" is very manageable, insurance, corp mates etc...if you need to respawn go back to Half Life.
Despite everything you suggest the funny thing is you are proven wrong by the numbers the game has grown from about 30,000 subscribers at release to 125,000 in June 2006 http://www.mmogchart.com/ and more than doubled in the past 12 months, i.e. the rate of growth is accelerating.
So I guess some new subscribers are finding it interesting, as they appear to be getting "asses in seats." So next time you flame a game for being universally unattractive check your facts. But then that would take time and you probably don't have a lot of time between your middle school detentions and Ritalin injections.
Never try to use that ghetto site to prove subsciption numbers again. It is admittengly wrong on many occastions, it is incomplete, and relies heavily on what companies tell him.
From what I was told by a dedicated player you need about 6 months to compete in PvP and have realistic hopes of doing something worthwhile.
I think I agree with you. If someone doesn't want to waste their time on crappy EVe they should go back to whatever game they came from.
It's better be hated for who you are, than loved for who you aren't.
Cool at least we agree there are a other lot of games out there for people who don't want to play crappy Eve!!
As far as that "ghetto site" -- You didn't offer an alternative for subscriber counts? I guess you are the expert? How many subscribers do you believe in?
IMHO I still think the 120,000 number seems about right as recently there are usually about 15-25,000 people online at any given time, about 2-4,000 are usually trial accounts...so that's only about 1/8 of the total subscribers...makes sense to me.
Comments
The most important thing about the new features is not their individual content, it's the fact that they're simple often but fundamental changes to a complex] system, and as such their impact is usually far more profound than their simple descriptions suggest. POS and sov have, for example, completely changed the nature of Alliance combat, along with the attendant dreadnaughts and other captials. The addtion of Tech 2 (since release IIRC) has fundamentally changed the economy. Some of the new ships (in particular Covert Ops ship and Interdictors) have again caused huge sweeping changes to the way PvP plays out. Similarly the simple addition of mobile war disruptors had major knock-on changes to how well you could control travel routes and thus interfere with combat and logistics efforts.
In any case, that's all secondary stuff. The important thing about Eve is the way the mechanics and tools allow player groups to interact. I fly with RAZOR, part of the "northern block" comprising half a dozen or so alliances in the north of the map, and I've been at war for going on two months now. At the beginning of July the map looked like this: http://dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/CRII/01.07.108.jpg
The main northern block at the time was Dusk and Dawn (D2), ourselves, CDC, Guard and RAWR, with FLA Sparta and NFC at a somewhat uneasy peace in Dek. As you can see, Cloud Ring was contested by the Goons, an alliance made up mainly of thousands of new players from the SomethingAwful forums who managed to gain a foothold in CR due to, basically, sloppy admin work. We decided we didn't really want them there and started our war to evict them from our borderlands. The initial attack underestimated their strength and was repulsed, causing command staff to reduce the intensity of the conflict while they figured out a better second strike. This lead to several weeks of fighting in the contested area while things were sorted out.
Then chaos broke out in Deklein. IRON moved in to reclaim their former territory, and NFC resisted. FLA pitched in on the side of IRON as they'd recently fought a bloody civil war with former allies NFC, while Sparta remained wisely neutral. The other northern powers held back from intervening, as they had NAPs with all parties involved, IRON being very old friends of D2. Then an NFC fleet commander was caught actively helping the Goons move capital ships through Branch and several other events caused the remaining neutral parties in the north to side with IRON and FLA. NFC rapidly collapsed but many of their former corps (guilds) joined Sparta, who tried to retain NFC's hold on key systems. Everyone summarily declared war on Sparta, who hired in mercenaries Burn Eden and publically enlisted the Goons to help them. FLA replied by hiring Mercenary Coalition (after outbidding Sparta for their services) and the other northern alliances, determined to stop the Goons gaining a foothold in their heartlands, quickly shifted focus to Dek.
After a short but decisive war which saw the Goons unable or unwilling to lend the necessary support, Sparta collapsed and D2 took over their former territory. The strategic focus then went back to the Cloud Ring conflict, where the northern allies struck a fierce blow to the Goons, erecting thirty starbases in the key system over two nights, significantly outnumbering the Goon starbases and thus guaranteeing them control of the station after the five-day timer elapsed. The Goons responded with a call to arms from their leader, declaring their intention to bring in several large southern alliances, lock down the system and destroy the newly-erected starbases.
The first night of their seige went badly, with only two starbase towers damaged and none destroyed, and their overnight lockdown of the only stargate into the system swiftly dismantled as european-time forces came back online in the morning. It looked unlikely that they were going to succeed in their goal even then, but then a further blow came: due to a controversial forum signature (involving a dead player and SomethingAwful "humour") Band of Brothers, widely regarded as the strongest alliance in the cluster, declared a holy war on the Goons and vowed to destroy them utterly. Their expected strike against the Goon assets in Cloud Ring never came, but neither did the Goons' allies, many citing recent events as the reason for changing their mind. Unprecedented (and thus far unexplained) levels of system lag made the fighting on friday night near-impossible, but the Goons were faced with a herculean task anyway, one which they clearly didn't have the infrastructure to complete. Instead, they pulled their remaining assets out using jump-capable carriers and retreated to defend their homelands and wage war on their enemies in Empire space.
While we were busy in CR, the forces of the Tau Ceti Federation, a French-speaking alliance based in the no-man's-land of Venal, seized the opportunity to attack RAWR in Tribute. Unfortunately for them, the western front collapsed far more quickly than they'd predicted and allied forces piled back east to remove this latest threat. While smaller than the Goons, TCF are far more experienced fighters and the war thus far has been hard and bloody, with one engagement seeing both sides lose seven dreadnaught-class starbase-busters apiece. The first of the two contested systems has now returned to friendly hands but D7 still remains a contested system, sitting astride a vital travel corridor and thus being a key system to control. We're confident that we will eventually evict the squatters - their botched diplomacy means a settlement is unlikely at this stage - but we're expecting the war to go on for a while yet.
The map currently looks like this: http://dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/crii/10.08.108.jpg
Cloud Ring is now in the hands of RISE, who took ownership from D2 once the Goons were cleared out. Dek is now split between D2, FLA and IRON. And, although it's not shown (the map is produced by Joshua Foiritain, who's just another player and thus not always 100% accurate), Tribute is still disputed.
That is why a lot of us play Eve. Not because of the graphics or the mechanics or how many points it gets in a poxy review. If you want to go on bashing NPCs in WoW, be my guest. We're busy fighting a full-scale galactic war, with multiple fronts, a huge logistics chain, politics, drama, territory changing hands, and people losing days or weeks of work in a single ill-judged engagement against superior forces. I can go out there in my little frigate that I could fly when I was three weeks old and play an important role (yes, really) in a key battle which helps decide the fate of a thousand stars and ten thousand space pilots. At the end of the war, one side will win and the other side will lose in a real and tangible way, and as a result all this stuff matters. There aren't that many games out there that can make the same claim.
^ and that is exactly why i play eve.
toast whats ur nick in game ;p
-GNW vet.
HOO.
The "losses" hurt so f....g badly I've had to get up walk around the block, lay down and watch TV to cool off, consider quiting this f....g game, then inevitibly come back for more.
The "adrenelin" rush can be second to none when you know that "respawning" will cost you dearly.
The alliances mentioned by Toast are the warriors in the game. I belonged to an "industrial/carebear" alliance "The Big Blue" whose mission was to build and sell the Titans/Dreadnoughts and other capital ships while remainng neutral and "opening up 0.0 space to the beginning pilots".....well our mission (undertaken in late fall 2005) was also quashed in the past 30 days. But the two primary corps in the alliance - my 600 man corporation Eve Univeristy, and the Tech 2 builders in NAGA remain fairly strong and committed to important elements of thier mission.
Even as a "CareBear" you have to respect the warriors....the stuff they blow up is the stuff I build and sell to them.
Most of the time a steep learning curve derives from bad planning or lasiness of the programmers to educate the newbies on how to play the game through in-game help. A game being hard to get into is a minus since it drives people away, and I'm pretty sure that's not a good strategy in designing a game financially speaking.
Another thing that will decrease the player base is this great feature you fine folks flaunt. I am referring to the fact you will NEVER EVER catch up to an active older player. Yes this is a great feature. I will always be inferior , that is the selling point of EVE to new players GENIUS
But wait there's more. Once you get into the meat and potatoes of the game aka PvP yaaaaaay, there's a steep penalty for death....boooooooo. Yes this is what will make anyone want to play EVE, especially considering that death hurts players with alot less resources more aka newers players. BRILLIANCE
The strategy of the EVE makers is obviously simple. They have made a game which only veteran players aka fanbois would want to buy. Now this is great dog gone way to get asses in seats.
It's better be hated for who you are, than loved for who you aren't.
I have never had a high respect for this site as a professional gaming website anyways, but the info here is often good.
EvE is a boring game if you dont like every single aspect of it. Very boring.
Being totally honest and generous i give EVE a total rating of 6. Fun factor a 3.
MMORPGs are going to be split into more accurate categories in the near future or even get another name. Over 90% of the games covered on this website are extremely boring to play, except wow but im burnt out on it and cant enjoy it anymore. But games like SUN, Hellgate London and Huxley are on the horizon and there is a huge demand for such games. Action packed and fast.
I have a 22m eve char still in trainig so i have played for more than just the trial. (im not paying for it and my friend is training it)
As people have stated before the real time learning system does heavily favor veteran players. I agree that time spent in game should relate to how much a person gains skill wise and item wise. However, there is one aspect people seem to be forgeting in that this game does take some merit of skill. Of course you will never know the same amount of skills as other pilots who started before you, but that doesn't mean they will blow you out of the water everytime you cross paths. What will put off most people about this game is the simple fact that there is some actual thought and skill involved when it comes to making your choices, and this doesn't come when you get to a certain level. It is thrown at you the minute you create your character. Like I have stated before I agree that players who actually play more should recieve better turn outs than those who don't. However games that work in this manner have their downfalls as well. It shouldn't be enough that since you play more than one person you should be better than he or she is. To many games are designed poorly in this way. Ultimately when it comes down to it a players worth isn't measured by their skills and actual knowledge of the game, but by pure time spent online. While Eve works in the same way by favoring those who have been with the game longer than others. Good Arguements have been made to suggest that with the right forethought and skill a player who has started later than another stands a good chance. This does not negate the fact that their real time based skill system was a poor design element in the overall scheme of things. It simply contradicts the statement that those who have played longer or payed more will always win because there are other variables such as the intelligence and skill each individual player has.
I think Eve was a fun game while I played it, but it is not a game for those who are simply looking for the next run of the mill MMORPG. Create your character, pick a class, kill mobs to level up. The road isn't that simple, and I think those who expect it to be will find themselves going nowhere.
Cekar
Eve is my current game of choice and while I enjoy it with minimal complaint I can see what others take issue with. However I can't see what others enjoy about games such as WoW do fair dos.
My point is that EVE isn't a game for everyone. You need patience and some maturity to enjoy it and many players have been trained to expect shallow instant gratification and a long steady grind. That didn't come out right but never mind. There is no grind in EVE unless that's what you're after. Yeah missions get repetitive but what game's don't?
So if you don't like EVE it's because you're not the sort of person its geared towards. That doesn't mean there's anything wrong with it or you, just that your tastes are different. Go find your game and play it and stop criticising those who disagree with you already.
"Two roads diverged in a wood, and I--
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference."
-- The Road Not Taken by Robert Frost
The first category I have a problem with is the rating of 10 for "Lag/Performance"
This is an utter crime. I'm sorry... EVE is many things but it is NOT lag free. This should have been about a 7 or 8 rating, still above average, but not nearly a 10. There are MANY occasions within the game where you will lag (especially in crowded sectors). And, no, sorry... with today's technology that is NOT excuseable.
The second category I had a problem with is the rating of 9 for customer support.
I don't know how the reviewer came up with the '9' but I would rate EVE's customer support as 'average'... around a 5 or 6.
Other than that I would say the review was dead on.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
its all because of the fact that instead of 1 master level that dictates how good you are each skill has a level. And only a certain skills levels are figured in at one time. Think of it in this Fantasy style. You have a healing spell skill, When your in a Priest mode you get all sorts of bonuses to this skill, Your a healing machine. if your in Paladin mode your a decient healer but now you have bonuses going towards Armor and Damage. Last you Have Warrior mode... You can't even cast a heal spell as the armor your wearing prevents you from doing it. Thats how EVE skill systems work. having multiple skills maxed out gives you more OPTIONS not make you a better player.
That all said when you look at the training time in EVE it perfectly matches the other MMOs. I have 12 months in EVE about. My character is equivlant to having 6 LvL 50 Characters of different classes. If I wanted to and I'm slowly doing I'll be training additional skills to be able to get ONE aspect of my character to the equivlant of a LVL60 with Tier 2 gear(Using the WoW equivlant as its a game I know some about and most people do know a little). Most players have 1 character in EVE which they can train in as many roles as you you want or as few. In WoW/EQ/CoH when your playing one character in a class NONE of your other characters are improving, which is not nessicarily the case in EVE. Since EVE does not have a linear system of training certain skills are used in multiple places, For instance a BIG hurdle for me is the 21 day skill of Cruiser 5. Cruiser 5 will open the door for T2 Damage ships, T2 Healing ships, and T2 Recon Ships. Effectively a single 21 day skill Allows my character to unlock the ability to spend a hour training into the equivlant of a Tier 2 equiped Priest, Warrior, and Rogue. Most people who start EVE don't realize the above which is fine as you don't really run into it till you start thinking about how your character is going to train out which well tends to not happen till after your trial. Not as much as you'd think. As EVE is very heavily group oriented its not uncommon for say a new player in a tackler (ship equiped to lock a ship in one place so others and obliterate it) to have any repairs or replacements payed for by a older player. I do this all the time. Most experienced players have no trouble doing it. As a tackler or Electronic Warfare ship you are going to be EXTREMLY important for the enemy to kill so hey guess who's going to die. Also guess what the NEW player was in many ways MORE important then me in my Battleship. So when they die my response once things cool down is usually, "You need any isk to fully insure your replacement ship? don't forget grab the stockpiled mods from the Corp hanger and let me know if you needed to buy anything so I can reimburse you." Its the group strategy wins and New players can play a vital role in the course of a 2 days training. You can Solo PVP but you have to know when to cut and run. the solo pirates are some of the Smartest people in the game as they weigh odds I don't even think about half the time, so although I hate it when I lose a ship to them I at least respect them for the person behind the ship. No they built a game where you have to do some thinking to figure out whats going on and how to stab someone in the back to take advantage of. They made a game that would NOT be for everyone but the people who like it will stay in the game for a long time. EVE's a niche game, and I agree it will never have Millions of players... frankly I'm not sad. Put EVE in the catagory of the War sims like Silent Hunter, Panzer general, or Battlegrounds. Most people wouldn't argue if you gave those games High scores in a review and most people hate them. They score High because they did what they set out to do and they did it Amazingly.
If you want a Complex Space MMO game where what you do matters and a screw up can REALLY hurt you, in a enviroment that makes you truely wonder what you missed when you logged off... EVE is for you. If the the above is not true then don't play it.
I agree that WoW, EQ2, and CoH/V (The only games I've played and can comment on) also deserve to be in 8.0-8.9 bracket. They all did what they tried to do Pretty damn well. WoW became the Gateway drug into the MMO world. It has very little long term playability... but, ALOT of people(espicially the targetted 14-20 age group) will find it fun for at least a few months. EQ2 still maintains the version of the die hard fantasy MMORPG (though I give it the lowest of all of them because it has had several bumps in trying to accomplish its goal). CoH/V became the superhero game and the meccah for the hundred of thousands of comic book fans. All of them deserve thier due as great games for what they set out to be but NONE of them deserve the 9.0+ Of games that truely have everything and you need to try them.
Some times I wonder if I speak english I see so many grammer errors
It's better be hated for who you are, than loved for who you aren't.
If you can't enjoy EVE then you need more Ritalin!!
The in-play down time is so I can go cook supper for my kids without dying or being eaten by a giant space goat on steroids!
Its not meant for the likes of you youngsters, with your single digit attention spans and your atari gametoys. Its for grown-up adults, like me.
(End of Parody)
But seriously, each to their own; if you don't like EVE then fair doos, but please recognise that it appeals to a particular target audience and that isn't you. Yet, good things come to those who wait
"Two roads diverged in a wood, and I--
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference."
-- The Road Not Taken by Robert Frost
I find it amazing that by 2020 first world countries will be competing to get immigrants.
Alright, I got tired of reading the fan posts versus the non-fan posts. I will start off by saying that I started playing this game in 2002 as part of the closed beta. Much has changed in the universe of Eve-Online. So much so that I hold a huge regret about not having stayed subscribed the entirety of the time. In the last stages of beta, there were still many problems with the game, they removed alot of features that would cause problems later on, and added a few that seemed somewhat stupid in my own opinion. The day of the global release, there were numerous problems ingame that rendered it unplayable to a vast majority.
There has been much debate on whether the content has changed enough to warrant a re-review of the game in its whole. I would have to say that yes, a review of the game at release does not do any good justice to the game at its present state. That being said, many other games would also warrant a re-review.
Content has changed massively since the dawn of Eve-Online. Tech 2 modules and ships, huge change in the gameplay and skill requirements for usage. Hundreds of skills to choose from, only the basics were available when I started playing. Player Owned Structures/Alliances/System Sovereignty, all hugely important features that were added later. The much dreaded and infamous redistribution of ore, one of the largest changes to shape the universe of Eve. For those that do not know about it, there was once high-end ore in as high as .7 (Crokite etc.). Capital Ships, long awaited since the dawn of time. We were promised Titans as a future ship class before we left beta.
For those that dispute the "Fun" value given by the reviewer, they must realise that Eve-Online is a sandbox game. The fun is what fun you create for yourself. Recent events revealed a scammer that walked away with something like 490billion isk, I'm pretty sure he perceived that as fun
. The world is a big place, and you are more than welcome to commit piracy, become a merchant, forge your way as an industrial powerhouse, defend (and sieze) space that you call your own.
In my opinion Eve-Online is one of the best MMORPGs out there, one that allows you to forge your own destiny and make a name for yourself in a community of thousands.
You can turn that on and off in the graphics menu.
Yea I think he is pretty much the designated "winner" of EVE.
Now, who wants second place?
[quote]My only gripes in this category are the strange ability for you to be able to see the sun though completely solid matter like planets, moons or your own ship. [/quote]
If you would have done a little more research, you would have found out that this is simply a graphics option you had turned off. I'm not sure what it is right now, but when turned off it allows you to see the sun through solid objects. Otherwise the sun acts normally and is obscured by solid objects. Try changing your graphics options and rethink this comment. It makes you look rather silly and ignorant in your review.
If this was already mentioned, my apologies. It had to be said though since it is misleading and false for many players who have all their graphics turned up. (Not hard with the game's requirement being so low)
"this game is nothing more then spent money = skill"
You come on here , saying that skills are not all that important to be something in EvE but as soon as something is mentioned about changing the skill learning your all against it because you put in "your own time and money in it" so why should the new guy get any advantages?... I find this line of thinking funny when u say skills are not all that important..
"The monster created isn't by the company that makes the game, it's by the fans that make it something it never was"
As stated earlier you can quickly contribute and be on par in any chosen area, if you need to be "equal" to the veterans go back to Guild Wars.
The steep "death penalt" is very manageable, insurance, corp mates etc...if you need to respawn go back to Half Life.
Despite everything you suggest the funny thing is you are proven wrong by the numbers the game has grown from about 30,000 subscribers at release to 125,000 in June 2006 http://www.mmogchart.com/ and more than doubled in the past 12 months, i.e. the rate of growth is accelerating.
So I guess some new subscribers are finding it interesting, as they appear to be getting "asses in seats." So next time you flame a game for being universally unattractive check your facts. But then that would take time and you probably don't have a lot of time between your middle school detentions and Ritalin injections.
From what I was told by a dedicated player you need about 6 months to compete in PvP and have realistic hopes of doing something worthwhile.
I think I agree with you. If someone doesn't want to waste their time on crappy EVe they should go back to whatever game they came from.
It's better be hated for who you are, than loved for who you aren't.
As far as that "ghetto site" -- You didn't offer an alternative for subscriber counts? I guess you are the expert? How many subscribers do you believe in?
IMHO I still think the 120,000 number seems about right as recently there are usually about 15-25,000 people online at any given time, about 2-4,000 are usually trial accounts...so that's only about 1/8 of the total subscribers...makes sense to me.