Originally posted by Jazia It does seem there are way more PvE fans than PvP. Which is why a fake PvP real PvE game like WOW has so many people. But then again, WOW's PvE has no real difference compare to the rest MMO games out there.
The real reason for PvE is more popular for now is really because most of these people have never experienced a real good PvP. To tell the truth, I was once considered a carebear too. Until I experienced the Castle Siege of Lineage 2. There is no going back. Once you experienced what true PvP is. It is NOT random ganking, it is NOT silly duels, it is NOT pointless meaningless fight and die repeatly in battleground. Player side organized large scaled war is the way to go.
Amen
What deserves to be done, deserves to be "well" done...
Cheesy old boy, you sure seem to go a long way to prove your maturity for someone that needs no validation. And another thing, can you please stop spaming this thread with empty phrases and stereotypes!
Originally posted by Gameloading Originally posted by Steelarm011 Originally posted by Chessack Originally posted by Steelarm011
I honestly dont get why people love to play against an AI, when they are there to play MULTIPLAYER. YOU COME TO PLAY MMO'S TO PLAY WITH OTHER PEOPLE, YET EVERYONE WANTS TO PLAY AGAINST A COMPUTER.
I can explain it to ya in one simple sentence: The AI plays fair.
For the most part, the AI does not cheat. It does not "gank" you. It does not dupe money to buy gear no one of its level should have. It does not use exploits to get unfair advantage and then use that advantage to go after people playing the game by the rules.
Many people who have had unpleasant experiences have had them in the context of the other guy using some sort of an exploit to get an unfair advantage, and win the fight by not playing fair and square. There are a lot of people who will do things like "duel" other players, but don't want open PVP. I knew a bunch of folks in SWG when I played it, who never went "overt" to do PVP, but dueled a lot. It wasn't that they opposed PVP... it's that by dueling they could ensure that the fight was fair, that their opponent was honorable, and that if they lost, they lost fair and square to a legitimately better player... not to some guy who had used a login/logout exploit to dupe resources and build an item nobody playing the game honestly could get. Some of these folks were quite good at PVP. It wasn't about "will I lose?" (they lost duels plenty of times), but about, "Will it be a fair fight?"
Too often in these games, in an open or "free for all" setting, what happens is the gankers are going around looking, not for a fair fight, but for a way to lord it over someone else and beat up on a weaker player. There's a term for this kind of behavior in the real world: BULLY.
People do not like bullies. They do not like being bullied. Read the posts on this thread and you will see the mentality. There are a handful of loud bullies here asking for the equivalent of an unpoliced schoolyard so they can go around beating up weaker kids and taking their lunch money.
In the real world an "open bullying" schoolyard does not exist because the bullies are in the vast minority... and the majority will not permit them (legally or by local rules like "school policy") to push other people around without consequences. In the real world, bullies are stopped by the authorities sooner or later, and it's never the case that the rules permit bullying. Bullies do what they do against the rules, and if they get caught, they are punished.
In the online world it is the same way -- since the population of gamers is drawn from the real population. Just like most people in the real world do not like being bullied, most people in the gamer world (being a subpopulation of that) also do not like being bullied. Open PVP, free for all, whatever you want to call it, means "open season for bullies", and most people don't want to live in a world dominated by bullies.
Remember, computer games are recreation. Most of us play them, in part, to escape from the unpleasantness of the real world. Bullies are an unpleasant element of reality... Why would anyone but a bully expect the gamer population to want to have that unpleasant element incorporated into the game world?
I already predicted a reponse like this way before you even posted it. Its the same song, same tune being sung. If I got 100 bucks for every time someone said "People dont like PvP because of gankers ruining the fun" I would be rich.
Again like I said before, it saddens me to see players out here with this sense of mentality. Wheres your backbone? Is it cool to not be tough?
Yes, FFA PvP does include gankers. Hell even in a "PvP zone" as you like to put it, you get ganked as well. It happens everywhere you go. Its a fact of life in the game and the real world. Get over it.
first of all, don't bring the real world in gaming world. not going to work, period. next, nobody would really quit because of gankers. its annoying, yes, but it wouldn't make people quit. this is WITHOUT item. loot. getting ganked in a game with no playerloot is not a big deal. getting ganked by a higher level player/person with higher skills and lose all your stuff, Now a big deal. and the sad part is, this is what happens most.
Whoever said that you lose all of your stuff? Maybe it can be 1 or two items. Maybe you dont lose some of your expierience at all. Just a little incentive for PvP and to add fun and excitement to the fight.
Ive never seen such a pampered group of gamers in my life. Okay, you get ganked, you die. Guess what? You get to play again, and now you have the chance to get revenge. Its the spirit of playing a game. When youre playing an FPS, is it any different? No. When youre playing teams in an FPS and two players gang on you, its no different. Its a freakin game here. Where is your spirit?
it doesn't really work like that. it is diffrent in a FPS. in a FPS, you fight a completely fair fight, both players characters are even and just as strong. not the case with MMO pvp. can you take revenge? yeah, in 2 months when you HOPE to reach the same level/same abilities as the player who ganked you
It does work like that. In an FPS, the person who ganked you is wearing a rocket launcher and youre using a pistol. And the person who is hitting you from behind always has the advtange of surprise. Yes, they may not be level based in FPS, but thats my argument - remove levels and the game could truly be fun. The bottom line is its NOT a perfect world and there is NEVER a fair fight.
Alright, you get ganked. How many times do I have to say this....get over it. You have levels too, and the fun part is you also can go do the same thing to another player. Its something that youre taking away from yourselves and thats called freedom. Youre taking away the freedom to do what you want in an MMO, and thats what you come to do to play...to escape the real world.
Second, MMO's nowadays are so highly monitired exploiting usually get you banned within a day. So dont even give me that "AI doesnt cheat" crap. And even if players did exploit on a regular basis, its far better than playing with something that doesnt have a personality and doesnt think and has scripted moves. Ive come to play multiplayer, not against a stupid computer.
Second, MMO's nowadays are so highly monitired exploiting usually get you banned within a day. So dont even give me that "AI doesnt cheat" crap. And even if players did exploit on a regular basis, its far better than playing with something that doesnt have a personality and doesnt think and has scripted moves. Ive come to play multiplayer, not against a stupid computer.
Second, MMO's nowadays are so highly monitired exploiting usually get you banned within a day. So dont even give me that "AI doesnt cheat" crap. And even if players did exploit on a regular basis, its far better than playing with something that doesnt have a personality and doesnt think and has scripted moves. Ive come to play multiplayer, not against a stupid computer.
Second, MMO's nowadays are so highly monitired exploiting usually get you banned within a day. So dont even give me that "AI doesnt cheat" crap. And even if players did exploit on a regular basis, its far better than playing with something that doesnt have a personality and doesnt think and has scripted moves. Ive come to play multiplayer, not against a stupid computer.
Second, MMO's nowadays are so highly monitired exploiting usually get you banned within a day. So dont even give me that "AI doesnt cheat" crap. And even if players did exploit on a regular basis, its far better than playing with something that doesnt have a personality and doesnt think and has scripted moves. Ive come to play multiplayer, not against a stupid computer.
Second, MMO's nowadays are so highly monitired exploiting usually get you banned within a day. So dont even give me that "AI doesnt cheat" crap. And even if players did exploit on a regular basis, its far better than playing with something that doesnt have a personality and doesnt think and has scripted moves. Ive come to play multiplayer, not against a stupid computer.
Second, MMO's nowadays are so highly monitired exploiting usually get you banned within a day. So dont even give me that "AI doesnt cheat" crap. And even if players did exploit on a regular basis, its far better than playing with something that doesnt have a personality and doesnt think and has scripted moves. Ive come to play multiplayer, not against a stupid computer.
if you don't want to play against a computer, why the heck are you playing an mmorpg!? the whole goal about mmorpgs are taking on dungeons and whatnot. if you want to pvp that badly, why don't you just go play a FPS? at least you can play FAIR then.
Ahahahaha! "If you dont want to play against a computer, why the heck are you playing a MASSIVLEY MULTIPLAYER ONLINE RPG!?" Hahaha. I honestly wonder what you guys are smoking sometimes when you write this. Its in the title dude...I come to play MMORPGS BECAUSE theyre multiplayer, and I want the biggest character interaction as possible.
My theory of why there are so many PvE supporters out there is the fact that they are pandered and are grown into the sense of mentality that PvP is too "brutal" and "Not fun" yet you see so many people complaining about how boring it is. Guess what folks - you got what you wished for. Additionally, alot of new people to the MMO world have begun by playing WoW which is the standard PvE game based on leveling and items. This is sadly the only type of game that they know about, which is terrible.
Addressing Chessack -
Originally posted by Chessack Originally posted by Steelarm011Again like I said before, it saddens me to see players out here with this sense of mentality. Wheres your backbone? Is it cool to not be tough?
"Where's my backbone?" What does that have to do with anything?
We're talking about GAMES here. The one and ONLY purpose of playing a game is TO HAVE FUN.
If I tell you, "This is not fun for me," then that's all that needs to be said. Whether it's fun for YOU is not relevant to me, because you having fun cannot cause me to have fun.
The fact that you discuss backbone with reference to video games just shows how messed up is the perspective many gamers. You want to talk about backbone? Backbone is the mother of 3 who raises her kids all by herself, working 2 jobs and manging to keep a family life. Backbone is the guy with cancer knowing he is dying but fighting for every day of his life. Backbone is the fireman who runs into the burning building to save a little kid. That's courage... that's backbone. Watching a bunch of pixels on a screen and listening to some cool sound FX does not involve anything remotely akin to courage.
Sorry, it does not wash. Playing a video game does not involve backbone. It is a recreational activity. Rational, well balanced people play for fun, not to prove anything. If you need to use a video game to prove something to anyone, I submit that you might want to think about why that is.
C
Originally posted by Steelarm011
Again like I said before, it saddens me to see players out here with this sense of mentality. Wheres your backbone? Is it cool to not be tough? "Where's my backbone?" What does that have to do with anything?
We're talking about GAMES here. The one and ONLY purpose of playing a game is TO HAVE FUN.
If I tell you, "This is not fun for me," then that's all that needs to be said. Whether it's fun for YOU is not relevant to me, because you having fun cannot cause me to have fun.
The fact that you discuss backbone with reference to video games just shows how messed up is the perspective many gamers. You want to talk about backbone? Backbone is the mother of 3 who raises her kids all by herself, working 2 jobs and manging to keep a family life. Backbone is the guy with cancer knowing he is dying but fighting for every day of his life. Backbone is the fireman who runs into the burning building to save a little kid. That's courage... that's backbone. Watching a bunch of pixels on a screen and listening to some cool sound FX does not involve anything remotely akin to courage.
Sorry, it does not wash. Playing a video game does not involve backbone. It is a recreational activity. Rational, well balanced people play for fun, not to prove anything. If you need to use a video game to prove something to anyone, I submit that you might want to think about why that is.
C
How dare you bring up the stereotypes of people having "backbone". I wasnt reffering to REAL LIFE, cause god then all of us are real shallow people. I really cant see a grown man to bring up such a serious topic to argue his point....but I guess all things are possible. Bringing up people struggling with life and death is just ridiculous so I wont even address that. Thats just wrong. You have the maturity know that wasnt the type of backbone that I was talking about.
In fact, Chessak, congratulations! You just contradicted yourself. You say videogames dont require backbone. Alright, so they dont require backbone, so why do you cry all over your corpse when you get ganked in Pvp? You cry over when you get "bullied". Why do you whine constantly when someone hits you from behind when killing those AI mobs that you so dearly love (because the AI doesnt cheat....ahaha, good one :P ). They do require backbone man, they do require some amount of toughness that everyone should have when playing games. If they didnt require backbone, then you wouldnt be whining right now, would you?
Videogames are meant to be challenging, thats why people play them. If they made videogames so easy, then why would people play them? There would be no point. Then you add the multiplayer aspect in. You are even competing with people of your own alliegience for things in the game everyone wants. How about when you missed that roll for that epic purple in WoW? Yep, I'm sorry....not everything can be given to you 100% garunteed. Thank God they didnt go that far and give everyone the same item instantanously...instead it takes you a couple runs before youre dressing in the Robes of Arugal that every other 26 spellcaster wears. (This even seems like we're talking about communisim - a perfect utopia. Everyone wants things perfect and fair).
Playing a videogame especially with other people does require backbone, and alot of it.
Originally posted by Roin
You are doing the same thing that keeps PvPers in the minority, Steelarm. You are passing off Chessack opinion without actually understanding his position. You are reading it I have no doubt about that. You just aren't allowing it to sink in. He makes a few very valid points about the PvP situation.
And btw Roin, I think its YOU who needs to stop passing off my opinion. You bothered to quote my whole post yet you have no argument to base it on. Its YOU who needs to stop and listen and realize what youre doing to yourself - you are chaining yourself to gaming with restrictions and no freedom.
- Steelarm
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Steelarm, Doctor of MMO gaming, ethics, and ideas.
Originally posted by Steelarm011 In fact, Chessak, congratulations! You just contradicted yourself. You say videogames dont require backbone. Alright, so they dont require backbone, so why do you cry all over your corpse when you get ganked in Pvp? You cry over when you get "bullied". Why do you whine constantly when someone hits you from behind when killing those AI mobs that you so dearly love (because the AI doesnt cheat....ahaha, good one :P ). They do require backbone man, they do require some amount of toughness that everyone should have when playing games.
How do you know I have ever done this? In fact I have not ever freaked out over being hit from behind in a game, because as I say, it's just a game. If you look up the thread, you asked what seemed like a serious quesiton. To sum it up, it was why do people play an onilne game with multiple other players, but not want to fight those players? Why prefer to fight the AI? And my answer was, without regard to my own personal behavior, that most people prefer this because the AI fights fair. I did not say anything about crying over corpses... You are making that assumption of not just me but anyone who disagrees with you. You say "I" make generalizations? Are you not generalizing, that anyone who doesn't like PVP, must be someone who whines constantly and cries over their corpses?
As I said, and as you have ignored, I play games to have fun. I don't happen to enjoy PVP, for a variety of reasons that have very little to do with being shot in the back of the head. Since I play games to have fun and I don't find PVP to be, I don't do it, and I don't subscribe to games where I can't avoid it. That's my call, just like enjoying open PVP is your call.
You are the one generalizing that people who don't PVP "don't have a backbone" (in whatever sense you want to state it), and that they whine and cry.
Videogames are meant to be challenging, thats why people play them. No... all games, video or otherwise, are meant to be fun. Now, I will grant you that for myself, and for most players, a good challenge is part of what makes it fun. But challenges can come in all shapes and sizes. I know crafters who find making that perfect crafted item to be a challenge. It may not be my cup of tea, but the fact that it is not PVP-oriented does not mean it cannot be fun and a challenge to some players.
Then you add the multiplayer aspect in. You are competing even with people of your own alliegience for things in the game everyone wants. How about when you missed that roll for that epic purple in WoW? Yea, I'm sorry....not everything can be given to you 100% garunteed. What does guaranteed success have to do with PVP? A fair fight does not mean an automatic win. How is it a challenge to that PVPer who is 50 levels above you and ganks you from behind while you're harvesting crops? If you REALLY wanted a challenge why would you be arguing in favor of open, unrestricted PVP? Instead, you should be after arenas that pit you against the toughest opponent possible, such as Guild Wars does. And in fact a lot of people DO want real challenges which is why GW is so popular -- there's no possible way to gank people in that game yet a lot of PVPers love it. Why? Because it pits them in league-style competition against the best other players in the field, and thus it is a true challenge.
Originally posted by Gameloading I really don't understand how those so called "hardcore" pvpers first need all kinds of consequences and item loss before they even consider to start pvp. I completely fail to understand what is so fun about losing your items to a person much higher level/must stronger then myself, because fair fights are rare. very rare. don't get me wrong, I love pvp. and if a game doesn't have pvp, then chances are I won't stick around for long. but for me, its the pvp itself that I enjoy, not the consequences, item loss or even reward.
The point is, in games like UO it wasn't a case of getting killed by someone with a much better character than yourself, it was about losing to someone with more SKILL than yourself. This is what hardcore PVPers miss now.
I've never had as much fun in PvP as I had in UO, purely because, as the OP has stated, games seem to be rather carebarefied now. You NEED to have extreme risk involved in PvP for it to work properly, you also need to have extreme reward in play to balance it out. In UO, people risked PKing others because the potential rewards were so massive it was worth the risk of death, and losing everything on your body.
Originally posted by Steelarm011 Originally posted by Gameloading Originally posted by Steelarm011 Originally posted by Chessack Originally posted by Steelarm011
I honestly dont get why people love to play against an AI, when they are there to play MULTIPLAYER. YOU COME TO PLAY MMO'S TO PLAY WITH OTHER PEOPLE, YET EVERYONE WANTS TO PLAY AGAINST A COMPUTER.
I can explain it to ya in one simple sentence: The AI plays fair.
For the most part, the AI does not cheat. It does not "gank" you. It does not dupe money to buy gear no one of its level should have. It does not use exploits to get unfair advantage and then use that advantage to go after people playing the game by the rules.
Many people who have had unpleasant experiences have had them in the context of the other guy using some sort of an exploit to get an unfair advantage, and win the fight by not playing fair and square. There are a lot of people who will do things like "duel" other players, but don't want open PVP. I knew a bunch of folks in SWG when I played it, who never went "overt" to do PVP, but dueled a lot. It wasn't that they opposed PVP... it's that by dueling they could ensure that the fight was fair, that their opponent was honorable, and that if they lost, they lost fair and square to a legitimately better player... not to some guy who had used a login/logout exploit to dupe resources and build an item nobody playing the game honestly could get. Some of these folks were quite good at PVP. It wasn't about "will I lose?" (they lost duels plenty of times), but about, "Will it be a fair fight?"
Too often in these games, in an open or "free for all" setting, what happens is the gankers are going around looking, not for a fair fight, but for a way to lord it over someone else and beat up on a weaker player. There's a term for this kind of behavior in the real world: BULLY.
People do not like bullies. They do not like being bullied. Read the posts on this thread and you will see the mentality. There are a handful of loud bullies here asking for the equivalent of an unpoliced schoolyard so they can go around beating up weaker kids and taking their lunch money.
In the real world an "open bullying" schoolyard does not exist because the bullies are in the vast minority... and the majority will not permit them (legally or by local rules like "school policy") to push other people around without consequences. In the real world, bullies are stopped by the authorities sooner or later, and it's never the case that the rules permit bullying. Bullies do what they do against the rules, and if they get caught, they are punished.
In the online world it is the same way -- since the population of gamers is drawn from the real population. Just like most people in the real world do not like being bullied, most people in the gamer world (being a subpopulation of that) also do not like being bullied. Open PVP, free for all, whatever you want to call it, means "open season for bullies", and most people don't want to live in a world dominated by bullies.
Remember, computer games are recreation. Most of us play them, in part, to escape from the unpleasantness of the real world. Bullies are an unpleasant element of reality... Why would anyone but a bully expect the gamer population to want to have that unpleasant element incorporated into the game world?
I already predicted a reponse like this way before you even posted it. Its the same song, same tune being sung. If I got 100 bucks for every time someone said "People dont like PvP because of gankers ruining the fun" I would be rich.
Again like I said before, it saddens me to see players out here with this sense of mentality. Wheres your backbone? Is it cool to not be tough?
Yes, FFA PvP does include gankers. Hell even in a "PvP zone" as you like to put it, you get ganked as well. It happens everywhere you go. Its a fact of life in the game and the real world. Get over it.
first of all, don't bring the real world in gaming world. not going to work, period. next, nobody would really quit because of gankers. its annoying, yes, but it wouldn't make people quit. this is WITHOUT item. loot. getting ganked in a game with no playerloot is not a big deal. getting ganked by a higher level player/person with higher skills and lose all your stuff, Now a big deal. and the sad part is, this is what happens most.
Whoever said that you lose all of your stuff? Maybe it can be 1 or two items. Maybe you dont lose some of your expierience at all. Just a little incentive for PvP and to add fun and excitement to the fight.
umm...its what this topic is all about=
Ive never seen such a pampered group of gamers in my life. Okay, you get ganked, you die. Guess what? You get to play again, and now you have the chance to get revenge. Its the spirit of playing a game. When youre playing an FPS, is it any different? No. When youre playing teams in an FPS and two players gang on you, its no different. Its a freakin game here. Where is your spirit?
it doesn't really work like that. it is diffrent in a FPS. in a FPS, you fight a completely fair fight, both players characters are even and just as strong. not the case with MMO pvp. can you take revenge? yeah, in 2 months when you HOPE to reach the same level/same abilities as the player who ganked you
It does work like that. In an FPS, the person who ganked you is wearing a rocket launcher and youre using a pistol. And the person who is hitting you from behind always has the advtange of surprise. Yes, they may not be level based in FPS, but thats my argument - remove levels and the game could truly be fun. The bottom line is its NOT a perfect world and there is NEVER a fair fight.
Both players can pick up the rocket launcher or the pistol. not the case with MMORPG´s, as there is a drop % or time requirement. it simply doesn´t work like a FPS. if you remove any kind of character development you get a game that already exists: Battlefield.
Alright, you get ganked. How many times do I have to say this....get over it. You have levels too, and the fun part is you also can go do the same thing to another player. Its something that youre taking away from yourselves and thats called freedom. Youre taking away the freedom to do what you want in an MMO, and thats what you come to do to play...to escape the real world.
Second, MMO's nowadays are so highly monitired exploiting usually get you banned within a day. So dont even give me that "AI doesnt cheat" crap. And even if players did exploit on a regular basis, its far better than playing with something that doesnt have a personality and doesnt think and has scripted moves. Ive come to play multiplayer, not against a stupid computer.
Second, MMO's nowadays are so highly monitired exploiting usually get you banned within a day. So dont even give me that "AI doesnt cheat" crap. And even if players did exploit on a regular basis, its far better than playing with something that doesnt have a personality and doesnt think and has scripted moves. Ive come to play multiplayer, not against a stupid computer.
Second, MMO's nowadays are so highly monitired exploiting usually get you banned within a day. So dont even give me that "AI doesnt cheat" crap. And even if players did exploit on a regular basis, its far better than playing with something that doesnt have a personality and doesnt think and has scripted moves. Ive come to play multiplayer, not against a stupid computer.
Second, MMO's nowadays are so highly monitired exploiting usually get you banned within a day. So dont even give me that "AI doesnt cheat" crap. And even if players did exploit on a regular basis, its far better than playing with something that doesnt have a personality and doesnt think and has scripted moves. Ive come to play multiplayer, not against a stupid computer.
Second, MMO's nowadays are so highly monitired exploiting usually get you banned within a day. So dont even give me that "AI doesnt cheat" crap. And even if players did exploit on a regular basis, its far better than playing with something that doesnt have a personality and doesnt think and has scripted moves. Ive come to play multiplayer, not against a stupid computer.
Second, MMO's nowadays are so highly monitired exploiting usually get you banned within a day. So dont even give me that "AI doesnt cheat" crap. And even if players did exploit on a regular basis, its far better than playing with something that doesnt have a personality and doesnt think and has scripted moves. Ive come to play multiplayer, not against a stupid computer.
Second, MMO's nowadays are so highly monitired exploiting usually get you banned within a day. So dont even give me that "AI doesnt cheat" crap. And even if players did exploit on a regular basis, its far better than playing with something that doesnt have a personality and doesnt think and has scripted moves. Ive come to play multiplayer, not against a stupid computer.
if you don't want to play against a computer, why the heck are you playing an mmorpg!? the whole goal about mmorpgs are taking on dungeons and whatnot. if you want to pvp that badly, why don't you just go play a FPS? at least you can play FAIR then.
Ahahahaha! "If you dont want to play against a computer, why the heck are you playing a MASSIVLEY MULTIPLAYER ONLINE RPG!?" Hahaha. I honestly wonder what you guys are smoking sometimes when you write this. Its in the title dude...I come to play MMORPGS BECAUSE theyre multiplayer, and I want the biggest character interaction as possible.
Geuss what sherlock. taking on a dungeon, trading, raiding is all Multiplayer in a massive world. notice that the genre is called MMORPG, not MMOPVPG.
My theory of why there are so many PvE supporters out there is the fact that they are pandered and are grown into the sense of mentality that PvP is too "brutal" and "Not fun" yet you see so many people complaining about how boring it is. Guess what folks - you got what you wished for. Additionally, alot of new people to the MMO world have begun by playing WoW which is the standard PvE game based on leveling and items. This is sadly the only type of game that they know about, which is terrible.
Originally posted by Chessack Originally posted by Steelarm011 In fact, Chessak, congratulations! You just contradicted yourself. You say videogames dont require backbone. Alright, so they dont require backbone, so why do you cry all over your corpse when you get ganked in Pvp? You cry over when you get "bullied". Why do you whine constantly when someone hits you from behind when killing those AI mobs that you so dearly love (because the AI doesnt cheat....ahaha, good one :P ). They do require backbone man, they do require some amount of toughness that everyone should have when playing games. How do you know I have ever done this? In fact I have not ever freaked out over being hit from behind in a game, because as I say, it's just a game. If you look up the thread, you asked what seemed like a serious quesiton. To sum it up, it was why do people play an onilne game with multiple other players, but not want to fight those players? Why prefer to fight the AI? And my answer was, without regard to my own personal behavior, that most people prefer this because the AI fights fair. I did not say anything about crying over corpses... You are making that assumption of not just me but anyone who disagrees with you. You say "I" make generalizations? Are you not generalizing, that anyone who doesn't like PVP, must be someone who whines constantly and cries over their corpses? As I said, and as you have ignored, I play games to have fun. I don't happen to enjoy PVP, for a variety of reasons that have very little to do with being shot in the back of the head. Since I play games to have fun and I don't find PVP to be, I don't do it, and I don't subscribe to games where I can't avoid it. That's my call, just like enjoying open PVP is your call.
You are the one generalizing that people who don't PVP "don't have a backbone" (in whatever sense you want to state it), and that they whine and cry. First of all I have not ignored that you play games to have fun. I acknowledge that. And thats great, we all do. However.... I may not have been there in the game to see how you reacted over when you got ganked. I'm not generilizing with you because I already have the proof in your past posts. The fact that you automatically dismiss getting ganked and the whole FFA PvP expierience as "not fun" shows me that you cant take getting your pixel beaten. You can remove all the emotion that you can from your post, but it still hits home when your playing. And therefore its not fun. I understand. Yes, it is a matter of opinion, but everyone is close minded to the fact that FFA pvP is all bad and that bullies run about wanting to hurt everyone. But its JUST A VIDEOGAME. You can do that too and have fun. All your doing is restricting yourself. I make generalizations becuase I have the proof of so many posts of people being bored with the tediousness of PvE. They say its like a job. Hell, theres a post atm that I responded to on here about a guy who is sick of playing WoW becuase of the heavy grind and PvE. There are tons of posts asking for "More than a life of PvE and raiding" so I can make my generalizations, because theyre true.
Videogames are meant to be challenging, thats why people play them. No... all games, video or otherwise, are meant to be fun. Now, I will grant you that for myself, and for most players, a good challenge is part of what makes it fun. But challenges can come in all shapes and sizes. I know crafters who find making that perfect crafted item to be a challenge. It may not be my cup of tea, but the fact that it is not PVP-oriented does not mean it cannot be fun and a challenge to some players. And how are they fun? By being challenging. Its not the other way around -" by being fun they are challenging." its "by being challenging, they are fun." I have never seen 1 game than doesnt have some sort of challenge in it. If there was no challenge in videogames, then there is no point in playing one. I never said that crafting is not a challenge, but PvP is.
Then you add the multiplayer aspect in. You are competing even with people of your own alliegience for things in the game everyone wants. How about when you missed that roll for that epic purple in WoW? Yea, I'm sorry....not everything can be given to you 100% garunteed. What does guaranteed success have to do with PVP? A fair fight does not mean an automatic win. How is it a challenge to that PVPer who is 50 levels above you and ganks you from behind while you're harvesting crops? If you REALLY wanted a challenge why would you be arguing in favor of open, unrestricted PVP? Instead, you should be after arenas that pit you against the toughest opponent possible, such as Guild Wars does. And in fact a lot of people DO want real challenges which is why GW is so popular -- there's no possible way to gank people in that game yet a lot of PVPers love it. Why? Because it pits them in league-style competition against the best other players in the field, and thus it is a true challenge.
Garunteed success has to do with what you stated before. Prefferring to play against a computer (in an MMO game) rather than other players. With playing against an AI, you have your garunteed success. Garunteed success goes along with my challenge argument, that essentially there is NO CHALLENGE in fighting against an AI. Sure, they have the raid bosses, but they get boring too...after all, thats all I see on the forums. Comparing MMO's to GW is like comparing apples to oranges. GW is made specifically for PvP. But GW isnt perfectly balanced, because you can get paired up with people that are not on your same skill level and you may have picked the totally wrong build for the situation. Its random. So no, no game is fair.
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Steelarm, Doctor of MMO gaming, ethics, and ideas.
Open pvp provides for a richer set of tactics that you can use to defeat foes.
Dueling is not PVP, dueling is dueling.
PVP without loss is not PVP.
As far as PVP goes, Eve is the perfect game, I love it, its ruthless.
Hey, I, a carebear, happen to want those things. The only problem is their hard to impliment. In fact, there is a game coming out soon, a carebear game, that will have the first manual aiming in a MMO. I think you need to get a new scape goat or at least aknowlege that games are never going to be exactly what you want.
Well like I said if you remove character levels and classes the game can be much more fun and player skill based rather than based on how much you farm and spend time getting the best items.
And fizzle is right, PvP does give you a broader range of interaction with your fellow players becuase the things your playing against arent scripted. It gives you excitement, adrenaline, that PvE simply cant give you.
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Steelarm, Doctor of MMO gaming, ethics, and ideas.
Originally posted by Steelarm011 Well like I said if you remove character levels and classes the game can be much more fun and player skill based rather than based on how much you farm and spend time getting the best items. And fizzle is right, PvP does give you a broader range of interaction with your fellow players becuase the things your playing against arent scripted. It gives you excitement, adrenaline, that PvE simply cant give you.
Originally posted by ValiumSummer There is a hardcore PvP game out there now. I'm not sure if you have heard of it. I won't mention its name but there are 3 letters in the title. Starts with E and ends with E. I will never mention its name again on this website as it has been BEATEN TO DEATH.
EvE is not a good example of a hardcore PvP game. I have a 30+ mil full PvP spec character and I have spent 95% of my in game time in 0.0 -> 0.4 sec space. I have killed a LOT of things in the time I have played EVE, however most of the time it has been alts in shuttles/noobships or people that didn't know what had hit them before they woke up needing a new clone. I have beaten some very competant PvP'ers also...but there are so many ways and mechanics that allow players to AVOID combat in EVE, once a player becomes reasonably knowledgeable they are more or less immune to anything but getting ganked by gatecamps...which is why 99% of PvP in EVE is just cheap ganks and blob warfare.
The problem nowadays is that the term "PvP" is so incredibly vague and unspecific and has come to mean many different things. I love logging on and finding out my corp has a new merc contract, a war or that we are going back to our 0.0 hunting grounds, but every one of us knows that it will inevitably degenerate into our enemies hiding themselves safely in dock or just plain logging off. Safe zones, Warp Core Stabs, abundant use of cheesy, skilless jamming modules and largely item based combat are just some of the factors that make EvE PvP incredibly flawed for me. You may ask "why do I still play?"...because there is very little alternative in the RPG genre worth mentioning at present for PvP'ers.
EvE is a fantastic game in many respects and is truly a league above the vast majority of MMO's, but it will NEVER fill the gap in the market for the type of player skill based, FFA Open PvP that old school UO players talk about and that a good niche of gamers crave and sorely miss.
Open pvp provides for a richer set of tactics that you can use to defeat foes.
Dueling is not PVP, dueling is dueling.
PVP without loss is not PVP.
As far as PVP goes, Eve is the perfect game, I love it, its ruthless.
You seem pretty full of yourself. "people don't like to lose items because higher level players kill them, which is the result of pvp with open loot system, so they don't have backbone and are cowards". its just sad. its also nice how you create such a lovely story about how open pvp works, its just sad the truth is far from that. THIS is what happens in open pvp with player loot most of the time: Player A, High level, runs up to player B,low level, kills him in 1~2 blows, takes all the stuff and simply laughs. no bushes. no backshoot. plain ganking, which happens in pvp MOST OF THE TIME.
Open pvp provides for a richer set of tactics that you can use to defeat foes.
Dueling is not PVP, dueling is dueling.
PVP without loss is not PVP.
As far as PVP goes, Eve is the perfect game, I love it, its ruthless.
You seem pretty full of yourself. "people don't like to lose items because higher level players kill them, which is the result of pvp with open loot system, so they don't have backbone and are cowards". its just sad. its also nice how you create such a lovely story about how open pvp works, its just sad the truth is far from that. THIS is what happens in open pvp with player loot most of the time: Player A, High level, runs up to player B,low level, kills him in 1~2 blows, takes all the stuff and simply laughs. no bushes. no backshoot. plain ganking, which happens in pvp MOST OF THE TIME.
This argument has been sung so many times it makes my ears sore. Please...spare us. Come on...please? I guess not, since thats the only argument you have against this.
The scenario you give us is something that happens in PvP. But it doesnt happen most of the time. In reality, there are probably more fair fights because people reach max level. Not only that, but its only the bad fights that are remembered.
Its people like you who simply cant take getting ganked. Youve lost the spirit of gaming, and I feel sorry for you. I dont know what happened to you, but its a sad lot. Okay, so they killed you...get over it. There are PLENTY of fair fights out there that ive had in AC, DAOC, and WoW. And Im NOT going to sacrifice it because some player like you cant take seeing his character killed by a high level. Toughen up - alright your character died. Big deal.
PvP gives a higher dynamic to the game and is the true nature of multiplayer. It gives you tactics, it forces you to group up for defense and offense, and it gives you a thrill that a computer cant give you. It forces you to move and travel in directions that are not normally thought of in the game. It makes the game an adventure. I'll definitly trade that for a couple bad kills by a high level once in awhile.
You enjoy farming and raiding over and over? You enjoy getting killed and killing with no consequences? Fine go ahead, live in your utopia, but then dont cry that the game gets boring. Because it does....most people eventually figure out theres more to gaming than clicking on fireball shooting down a raid boss over and over.
By my book, fizzle is 100% correct. PvP without conseuqences is not really PvP, its a utopia. And we all know a utopia gets boring real fast.
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Steelarm, Doctor of MMO gaming, ethics, and ideas.
..THIS is what happens in open pvp with player loot most of the time: Player A, High level, runs up to player B,low level, kills him in 1~2 blows, takes all the stuff and simply laughs. no bushes. no backshoot. plain ganking, which happens in pvp MOST OF THE TIME..
I totally agree that with a level based PvP system that will happen most of the time in an open PvP environment. This is why PLAYER SKILL based PvP systems are so appealing to hardcore PvP'ers. I meet a suprising amount of old school UO players when I play FPS games, because they are sick of the watered down, boring PvP systems that most MMO's now offer. Defeating someone because you have a bigger imaginary sword means absolutely nothing, but defeating them because you played the game better and earnt the win is what it is all about.
It's the reason that the hardcore PvP community has been following Darkfall like a fat man eyeing up a fillet steak covered in blue cheese for years now.
The reason why FFA PVP fails is because there's no penalty for random ganking and bullying lower-leveled people. In real life, if you die, you die for good. If you break the law, you get arrested and are FORCED to stay in prison. In a MMORPG, if a ganker gets killed, he just resurrects and spends some time getting properly equipped to do more ganking. If he gets banned, he just creates a new account. There really is no system in place in FFA PVP to prevent this person from ruining the game for everyone else. Essentially, the penalties are not strict enough to prevent against a small select group of people from ruining the games for others. Hence why we'll never see a truly open game where you can steal any item, kill any NPC, etc. etc.
As for the current FFA PVP games out there right now, I don't know about your experiences, but from mine, I'm tired of the random gankings by level-capped players killing me when I'm low-level. Even similarily-leveled players will try and attack you when you're low on health after you killed a mob, or gang up on you and then run away when others come to help you out. In actuality, even fights are always rare because the opponent will always try to take any advantage they can, whether it be the element of surprise, superiority of numbers, or simply a level advantage. It might be fun for those who are dishing it out, but it's definitely not fun for those who have no choice but to take it. If I want to play a PVP game, I'll play a FPS. A MMORPG, in my opinion, is for teamwork and the social network, NOT random gankings and unfair battles.
Open pvp provides for a richer set of tactics that you can use to defeat foes.
Dueling is not PVP, dueling is dueling.
PVP without loss is not PVP.
As far as PVP goes, Eve is the perfect game, I love it, its ruthless.
You seem pretty full of yourself. "people don't like to lose items because higher level players kill them, which is the result of pvp with open loot system, so they don't have backbone and are cowards". its just sad. its also nice how you create such a lovely story about how open pvp works, its just sad the truth is far from that. THIS is what happens in open pvp with player loot most of the time: Player A, High level, runs up to player B,low level, kills him in 1~2 blows, takes all the stuff and simply laughs. no bushes. no backshoot. plain ganking, which happens in pvp MOST OF THE TIME.
This argument has been sung so many times it makes my ears sore. Please...spare us. Come on...please? I guess not, since thats the only argument you have against this.
The scenario you give us is something that happens in PvP. But it doesnt happen most of the time. In reality, there are probably more fair fights because people reach max level. Not only that, but its only the bad fights that are remembered.
Have you even PLAYED games with player looting? fair fights, my ass. fairs fights are rare, very rare. maybe in games like WoW, Daoc and AO, which don't contain player looting. the fights in Pre-Trammel UO, Runescape, EVE, Lineage 2 and more games with player looting sure as hell aren't fair fights most of the time. high level ganking low levels is simply what happens most.
Its people like you who simply cant take getting ganked. Youve lost the spirit of gaming, and I feel sorry for you. I dont know what happened to you, but its a sad lot. Okay, so they killed you...get over it. There are PLENTY of fair fights out there that ive had in AC, DAOC, and WoW. And Im NOT going to sacrifice it because some player like you cant take seeing his character killed by a high level. Toughen up - alright your character died. Big deal.
You need to buy yourself some glasses. like I said in previous posts, I don't mind pvp ganking in the games you mentioned because they DON'T have playerlooting. I said, and this time read carefully, that I dislike ganking in game that has heavy consequences such as player looting. get it? alright your character died. big deal, thats how I feel exactly. alright, your character died and lost all the stuff you worked hard for. suddenly it does gets annoying when your character dies.
PvP gives a higher dynamic to the game and is the true nature of multiplayer. It gives you tactics, it forces you to group up for defense and offense, and it gives you a thrill that a computer cant give you. It forces you to move and travel in directions that are not normally thought of in the game. It makes the game an adventure. I'll definitly trade that for a couple bad kills by a high level once in awhile.
Please speak for yourself.
You enjoy farming and raiding over and over? You enjoy getting killed and killing with no consequences? Fine go ahead, live in your utopia, but then dont cry that the game gets boring. Because it does....most people eventually figure out theres more to gaming than clicking on fireball shooting down a raid boss over and over.
yeah, for example I can go pvp in the game which is unbalanced and most of the time leads to frustration, or I can load up Battlefield 2 or Counterstrike and actually have fair fights.
By my book, fizzle is 100% correct. PvP without conseuqences is not really PvP, its a utopia. And we all know a utopia gets boring real fast.
pvp stands for player vs player. no mention of consequences or item looting. its a FACT pvp without consequences is still pvp.
2) I was pvping from day 3, I have more kills than ship losses. Got my first kill at 5 days old. Ppl play that game for 2 years and be whinin like "omg you need 20 million sp to be competative in pvp" f*ckin clowns.
People like to use skillpoints as a scapegoat, "you were lucky you have more SP than me" or "you were lucky you had stabs" or "you were lucky you had ECM."
It all comes down to, one of us was better prepared.
PVP is a skilll.
3) Theres many type of skills. Hand-eye coordination. Intelligence to use the proper fittings. Teamwork to team up 2-3 players to your 1.
What does "ganking" mean?
Ganking = Ambush
One person was prepared and the other person was not.
Ambush = Good tactics.
Tactics = Good use of scouting. Knowing where you are, hiding in the bushes ready to jump you. Using my strong force vs your weak force.
Fizzle, thats not how pvp in mmorpg works. there is simply no such thing as skill in pvp mmorpgs of today. there is no "hiding in the bushes", because in close to every mmorpg you can just tab around, not to mention there is a big shiny name tag above your head. hand eye coordination. well I see your a pretty old guy of 35, so for you probably consider it hand-eye coordination, but hitting keys 1-9 then sit back and see how your character defeat the oponont is not really high usage of hand eye coordination in my book.
maybe your ultimate dream mmorpg works like the story you just posted, but it sure as hell doesn't happen in the released pvp mmo's.
the only game that makes a small use of skill is EVE, it requires some strategy, but thats about it.
Open pvp provides for a richer set of tactics that you can use to defeat foes.
Dueling is not PVP, dueling is dueling.
PVP without loss is not PVP.
As far as PVP goes, Eve is the perfect game, I love it, its ruthless.
You seem pretty full of yourself. "people don't like to lose items because higher level players kill them, which is the result of pvp with open loot system, so they don't have backbone and are cowards". its just sad. its also nice how you create such a lovely story about how open pvp works, its just sad the truth is far from that. THIS is what happens in open pvp with player loot most of the time: Player A, High level, runs up to player B,low level, kills him in 1~2 blows, takes all the stuff and simply laughs. no bushes. no backshoot. plain ganking, which happens in pvp MOST OF THE TIME.
This argument has been sung so many times it makes my ears sore. Please...spare us. Come on...please? I guess not, since thats the only argument you have against this.
The scenario you give us is something that happens in PvP. But it doesnt happen most of the time. In reality, there are probably more fair fights because people reach max level. Not only that, but its only the bad fights that are remembered.
Have you even PLAYED games with player looting? fair fights, my ass. fairs fights are rare, very rare. maybe in games like WoW, Daoc and AO, which don't contain player looting. the fights in Pre-Trammel UO, Runescape, EVE, Lineage 2 and more games with player looting sure as hell aren't fair fights most of the time. high level ganking low levels is simply what happens most.
Of course I have, thats why I support it. Ive had my share of plenty fair fights in those games, and then I had my plenty share of fights that werent so fair. But they were still fun. Sometimes I would gank people lower in then level than me...so what? Its the spirit of the game.
And now youre saying theres a difference between games with looting and no looting? The fights in Runescape and EVE and whatnot are JUST AS FAIR as those in WoW and DAOC. People still gank you, people still come out of nowhere as high levels and gank you. The only difference is that your dropping items. Saying that all high levels gank low levels on a regular basis is a generalization thats simply not true. Its more of a 50/50, because I see plenty of high levels fighting high levels out there. The only reason you think that theres more high levels ganking lowbies is because everyone whines about it.
Its people like you who simply cant take getting ganked. Youve lost the spirit of gaming, and I feel sorry for you. I dont know what happened to you, but its a sad lot. Okay, so they killed you...get over it. There are PLENTY of fair fights out there that ive had in AC, DAOC, and WoW. And Im NOT going to sacrifice it because some player like you cant take seeing his character killed by a high level. Toughen up - alright your character died. Big deal.
You need to buy yourself some glasses. like I said in previous posts, I don't mind pvp ganking in the games you mentioned because they DON'T have playerlooting. I said, and this time read carefully, that I dislike ganking in game that has heavy consequences such as player looting. get it? alright your character died. big deal, thats how I feel exactly. alright, your character died and lost all the stuff you worked hard for. suddenly it does gets annoying when your character dies.
Oh so now its about the looting. If your not allowed to loot, where the hell is the adrenaline? Wheres the excitement? Knowing that if you kill someone you may just get a great item. You forget that it works both ways, and thats what makes the game so exicting. I KNOW that you dont mind ganking without playlooting/heacy consequences becuase I KNOW you like the games that are utopias. And who said you lost ALL your stuff? I dont know any game except one or two than did that or plan on doing that. On DT on AC (Probably the best gaming expierience Ive ever had - ask anyone) even there wasnt full looting in that game and its considered the most brutal FFA PvP server in the world. And it didnt get annoying when my char died back then, cause I got used to it. I'd say to myself "Okay man, I gotta toughen up - ok, I died. I'll get even better items next time and work harder". Are you afraid to do that?
PvP gives a higher dynamic to the game and is the true nature of multiplayer. It gives you tactics, it forces you to group up for defense and offense, and it gives you a thrill that a computer cant give you. It forces you to move and travel in directions that are not normally thought of in the game. It makes the game an adventure. I'll definitly trade that for a couple bad kills by a high level once in awhile.
Please speak for yourself.
No, I'll speak for the majority.
You enjoy farming and raiding over and over? You enjoy getting killed and killing with no consequences? Fine go ahead, live in your utopia, but then dont cry that the game gets boring. Because it does....most people eventually figure out theres more to gaming than clicking on fireball shooting down a raid boss over and over.
yeah, for example I can go pvp in the game which is unbalanced and most of the time leads to frustration, or I can load up Battlefield 2 or Counterstrike and actually have fair fights.
You cant have fair fights in them either, cause no matter what someone is gonna attack you first and someone is gonna have a better weapon. There is no such thing as a fair fight. If your looking for a fair fight then MMO's certainly arent it. You do it not for the fair fight, but for the multiplayer aspect of it. Your answer means nothing.
By my book, fizzle is 100% correct. PvP without conseuqences is not really PvP, its a utopia. And we all know a utopia gets boring real fast.
pvp stands for player vs player. no mention of consequences or item looting. its a FACT pvp without consequences is still pvp.
Okay fine, get all technical on me. You know what I mean. I hope.
btw, I already wear glasses
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Steelarm, Doctor of MMO gaming, ethics, and ideas.
Originally posted by rpgmachine Originally posted by Ranma13 The reason why FFA PVP fails is because there's no penalty for random ganking and bullying lower-leveled people. ...Which is why it's time for player skill based MMORPG's with no levels
Well, what do you mean by skill-based? If you're talking about Ultima Online where you grind out skills instead of levels, you're just replacing one grind with another. If you're talking about EVE Online, it's more about knowing how to set up your ship than really anything you do during combat. It's an undisputable fact that current MMORPGs are more about equipment and levels rather than skills. Once people get a hang of the game, they pretty much know how to use their skills as well as the next person. There might be some differences, like one person who casts skills in a better order than another person, or casts them faster, but for the most part they are minor compared to how big equipment and skills come into play.
You telling me Mute (the main character in the movies) had no skills?
Theres different kind of skills. Theres no AIMING in MMORPG's, its all about your UI, your key layout, your build, your strategy.
I used to play WoW, I was fairly happy with it except for having to grind for gear. That was just annoying and I had to give that game up.
Yes, I think carebears should be able to play in a PVP game, they should not be totally safe but they should be able to avoid MOST fights. I want all players to be exposed to a PVP environment, to whet their appetite, and EASE them into PVP while at the same time letting them carebear MOST of the time without too much hassle.
I think theres alot of people out there who are downright TERRIFIED of PVP.
If that describes you, I don't hate you. I don't think you're a pussy, I don't want you to "cry more noob."
The problem is most people have not been exposed to a GOOD pvp experience
It only takes 1 heart pounding experience to get you hooked. Once you get that one experience, its all over, you won't play PVE ever again.
I know Ranma prolly hates Eve, he had a schitty experience, his corp moved to 0.0, left him in empire. See, he's scarred for life, had 1 crappy PVP experience, now he'll prolly be a carebear for the rest of his life.
Me I had just the opposite.
I had the good fortune of making a good friend early in the game, we were miners, would hang out every day and just mine and sip tea and chat.
Then one day some guy came into our belt with 4 mining barges, and proceeded to strip it clean.
Man we were MAD.
We started stealing his ore, bumping his miners, yelling at him in local. No reaction. It was a macro miner.
I purchased a hauler, and my friend bought a Rifter, he would steal ore, drop it into a jet can, and my hauler would grab the contents of the jet can and take it back to the station.
We musta stole 100 mil worth of Omber from this guy before he came to his keyboard and saw what happened.
He brought his Ferox, me and my friend docked.
15 minutes passed, we went back to the belt, my friend fitted a snowball launcher to his ship.
There was the Ferox waiting for us to steal something so he could blast us.
My friend launches a snowball at him, which is NOT considered a hostile act. This guy apparently felt it was, and fires back. Suddenly Concord warps in and owns him.
1 Fully fitted Ferox : 50 mil A shitload of Omber : 100 mil ================== A couple of 3-day old newbs owning a 2 year old Macrominer : Priceless
After that I could not bring myself to mine or carebear. From then on it was only PVP and I was hooked.
We need more people getting a taste of PVP, once you have a GOOD experience, you will pursue the PVP high.
Just to bassically be silly. (Personally I wouldn't mind losing one item. Just losing everything everytime would get really annoying) I'm going to go on a roleplay factor. Say... If you were actually your character mind you... Well, ok so you fight someone. They eventually die after a long hard battle. Well, I garentee you that almost 90% of the time their armor is going to be beat to hell and not worth even salvaging. The only spoils in the fight are the stead, and any pocket change. Why would one grab a weapon that is obviously inferrior to yours? Since you won. I mean taking the weapon as a thropy is possable and really doesn't bother the whole ideal of it.
Siehst du mich Erkennst du mich Ganz tief in meinem Herz ist noch ein Platz f?r dich Ich suche dich Ich sehne mich nach dem was ich geliebt hab doch ich find es nicht
Comments
What deserves to be done, deserves to be "well" done...
Cheesy old boy, you sure seem to go a long way to prove your maturity for someone that needs no validation. And another thing, can you please stop spaming this thread with empty phrases and stereotypes!
I already predicted a reponse like this way before you even posted it. Its the same song, same tune being sung. If I got 100 bucks for every time someone said "People dont like PvP because of gankers ruining the fun" I would be rich.
Again like I said before, it saddens me to see players out here with this sense of mentality. Wheres your backbone? Is it cool to not be tough?
Yes, FFA PvP does include gankers. Hell even in a "PvP zone" as you like to put it, you get ganked as well. It happens everywhere you go. Its a fact of life in the game and the real world. Get over it.
first of all, don't bring the real world in gaming world. not going to work, period. next, nobody would really quit because of gankers. its annoying, yes, but it wouldn't make people quit. this is WITHOUT item. loot. getting ganked in a game with no playerloot is not a big deal. getting ganked by a higher level player/person with higher skills and lose all your stuff, Now a big deal. and the sad part is, this is what happens most.
Whoever said that you lose all of your stuff? Maybe it can be 1 or two items. Maybe you dont lose some of your expierience at all. Just a little incentive for PvP and to add fun and excitement to the fight.
Ive never seen such a pampered group of gamers in my life. Okay, you get ganked, you die. Guess what? You get to play again, and now you have the chance to get revenge. Its the spirit of playing a game. When youre playing an FPS, is it any different? No. When youre playing teams in an FPS and two players gang on you, its no different. Its a freakin game here. Where is your spirit?
it doesn't really work like that. it is diffrent in a FPS. in a FPS, you fight a completely fair fight, both players characters are even and just as strong. not the case with MMO pvp. can you take revenge? yeah, in 2 months when you HOPE to reach the same level/same abilities as the player who ganked you
Addressing Chessack -
Originally posted by Chessack
Originally posted by Steelarm011Again like I said before, it saddens me to see players out here with this sense of mentality. Wheres your backbone? Is it cool to not be tough?
"Where's my backbone?" What does that have to do with anything?
We're talking about GAMES here. The one and ONLY purpose of playing a game is TO HAVE FUN.
If I tell you, "This is not fun for me," then that's all that needs to be said. Whether it's fun for YOU is not relevant to me, because you having fun cannot cause me to have fun.
The fact that you discuss backbone with reference to video games just shows how messed up is the perspective many gamers. You want to talk about backbone? Backbone is the mother of 3 who raises her kids all by herself, working 2 jobs and manging to keep a family life. Backbone is the guy with cancer knowing he is dying but fighting for every day of his life. Backbone is the fireman who runs into the burning building to save a little kid. That's courage... that's backbone. Watching a bunch of pixels on a screen and listening to some cool sound FX does not involve anything remotely akin to courage.
Sorry, it does not wash. Playing a video game does not involve backbone. It is a recreational activity. Rational, well balanced people play for fun, not to prove anything. If you need to use a video game to prove something to anyone, I submit that you might want to think about why that is.
C
Again like I said before, it saddens me to see players out here with this sense of mentality. Wheres your backbone? Is it cool to not be tough?
"Where's my backbone?" What does that have to do with anything?
We're talking about GAMES here. The one and ONLY purpose of playing a game is TO HAVE FUN.
If I tell you, "This is not fun for me," then that's all that needs to be said. Whether it's fun for YOU is not relevant to me, because you having fun cannot cause me to have fun.
The fact that you discuss backbone with reference to video games just shows how messed up is the perspective many gamers. You want to talk about backbone? Backbone is the mother of 3 who raises her kids all by herself, working 2 jobs and manging to keep a family life. Backbone is the guy with cancer knowing he is dying but fighting for every day of his life. Backbone is the fireman who runs into the burning building to save a little kid. That's courage... that's backbone. Watching a bunch of pixels on a screen and listening to some cool sound FX does not involve anything remotely akin to courage.
Sorry, it does not wash. Playing a video game does not involve backbone. It is a recreational activity. Rational, well balanced people play for fun, not to prove anything. If you need to use a video game to prove something to anyone, I submit that you might want to think about why that is.
C
How dare you bring up the stereotypes of people having "backbone". I wasnt reffering to REAL LIFE, cause god then all of us are real shallow people. I really cant see a grown man to bring up such a serious topic to argue his point....but I guess all things are possible. Bringing up people struggling with life and death is just ridiculous so I wont even address that. Thats just wrong. You have the maturity know that wasnt the type of backbone that I was talking about.
In fact, Chessak, congratulations! You just contradicted yourself. You say videogames dont require backbone. Alright, so they dont require backbone, so why do you cry all over your corpse when you get ganked in Pvp? You cry over when you get "bullied". Why do you whine constantly when someone hits you from behind when killing those AI mobs that you so dearly love (because the AI doesnt cheat....ahaha, good one :P ). They do require backbone man, they do require some amount of toughness that everyone should have when playing games. If they didnt require backbone, then you wouldnt be whining right now, would you?
Videogames are meant to be challenging, thats why people play them. If they made videogames so easy, then why would people play them? There would be no point. Then you add the multiplayer aspect in. You are even competing with people of your own alliegience for things in the game everyone wants. How about when you missed that roll for that epic purple in WoW? Yep, I'm sorry....not everything can be given to you 100% garunteed. Thank God they didnt go that far and give everyone the same item instantanously...instead it takes you a couple runs before youre dressing in the Robes of Arugal that every other 26 spellcaster wears. (This even seems like we're talking about communisim - a perfect utopia. Everyone wants things perfect and fair).
Playing a videogame especially with other people does require backbone, and alot of it.
And btw Roin, I think its YOU who needs to stop passing off my opinion. You bothered to quote my whole post yet you have no argument to base it on. Its YOU who needs to stop and listen and realize what youre doing to yourself - you are chaining yourself to gaming with restrictions and no freedom.
- Steelarm
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Steelarm, Doctor of MMO gaming, ethics, and ideas.
Haha, easy there champ, you could pop a vein if you continue like that, I know people like Cheesy there, and they are just baloons of hot air.
Some people hide behind the rules and some break them...
C
The point is, in games like UO it wasn't a case of getting killed by someone with a much better character than yourself, it was about losing to someone with more SKILL than yourself. This is what hardcore PVPers miss now.
I've never had as much fun in PvP as I had in UO, purely because, as the OP has stated, games seem to be rather carebarefied now. You NEED to have extreme risk involved in PvP for it to work properly, you also need to have extreme reward in play to balance it out. In UO, people risked PKing others because the potential rewards were so massive it was worth the risk of death, and losing everything on your body.
For the most part, the AI does not cheat. It does not "gank" you. It does not dupe money to buy gear no one of its level should have. It does not use exploits to get unfair advantage and then use that advantage to go after people playing the game by the rules.
Many people who have had unpleasant experiences have had them in the context of the other guy using some sort of an exploit to get an unfair advantage, and win the fight by not playing fair and square. There are a lot of people who will do things like "duel" other players, but don't want open PVP. I knew a bunch of folks in SWG when I played it, who never went "overt" to do PVP, but dueled a lot. It wasn't that they opposed PVP... it's that by dueling they could ensure that the fight was fair, that their opponent was honorable, and that if they lost, they lost fair and square to a legitimately better player... not to some guy who had used a login/logout exploit to dupe resources and build an item nobody playing the game honestly could get. Some of these folks were quite good at PVP. It wasn't about "will I lose?" (they lost duels plenty of times), but about, "Will it be a fair fight?"
Too often in these games, in an open or "free for all" setting, what happens is the gankers are going around looking, not for a fair fight, but for a way to lord it over someone else and beat up on a weaker player. There's a term for this kind of behavior in the real world: BULLY.
People do not like bullies. They do not like being bullied. Read the posts on this thread and you will see the mentality. There are a handful of loud bullies here asking for the equivalent of an unpoliced schoolyard so they can go around beating up weaker kids and taking their lunch money.
In the real world an "open bullying" schoolyard does not exist because the bullies are in the vast minority... and the majority will not permit them (legally or by local rules like "school policy") to push other people around without consequences. In the real world, bullies are stopped by the authorities sooner or later, and it's never the case that the rules permit bullying. Bullies do what they do against the rules, and if they get caught, they are punished.
In the online world it is the same way -- since the population of gamers is drawn from the real population. Just like most people in the real world do not like being bullied, most people in the gamer world (being a subpopulation of that) also do not like being bullied. Open PVP, free for all, whatever you want to call it, means "open season for bullies", and most people don't want to live in a world dominated by bullies.
Remember, computer games are recreation. Most of us play them, in part, to escape from the unpleasantness of the real world. Bullies are an unpleasant element of reality... Why would anyone but a bully expect the gamer population to want to have that unpleasant element incorporated into the game world?
I already predicted a reponse like this way before you even posted it. Its the same song, same tune being sung. If I got 100 bucks for every time someone said "People dont like PvP because of gankers ruining the fun" I would be rich.
Again like I said before, it saddens me to see players out here with this sense of mentality. Wheres your backbone? Is it cool to not be tough?
Yes, FFA PvP does include gankers. Hell even in a "PvP zone" as you like to put it, you get ganked as well. It happens everywhere you go. Its a fact of life in the game and the real world. Get over it.
first of all, don't bring the real world in gaming world. not going to work, period. next, nobody would really quit because of gankers. its annoying, yes, but it wouldn't make people quit. this is WITHOUT item. loot. getting ganked in a game with no playerloot is not a big deal. getting ganked by a higher level player/person with higher skills and lose all your stuff, Now a big deal. and the sad part is, this is what happens most.
Whoever said that you lose all of your stuff? Maybe it can be 1 or two items. Maybe you dont lose some of your expierience at all. Just a little incentive for PvP and to add fun and excitement to the fight.
umm...its what this topic is all about=
Ive never seen such a pampered group of gamers in my life. Okay, you get ganked, you die. Guess what? You get to play again, and now you have the chance to get revenge. Its the spirit of playing a game. When youre playing an FPS, is it any different? No. When youre playing teams in an FPS and two players gang on you, its no different. Its a freakin game here. Where is your spirit?
it doesn't really work like that. it is diffrent in a FPS. in a FPS, you fight a completely fair fight, both players characters are even and just as strong. not the case with MMO pvp. can you take revenge? yeah, in 2 months when you HOPE to reach the same level/same abilities as the player who ganked you
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Steelarm, Doctor of MMO gaming, ethics, and ideas.
Basically its true, PVE players have no backbone.
They are essentially cowardly souls who need govt or game-mechanics to protect them, instead of being responsible for themself.
Fair play? pfft
I dont play games to have a duel at 20 paces. I play to hide in the bushes and shoot you in the back.
Cover, concealment, intelligence, scouting, sniping.
Open pvp provides for a richer set of tactics that you can use to defeat foes.
Dueling is not PVP, dueling is dueling.
PVP without loss is not PVP.
As far as PVP goes, Eve is the perfect game, I love it, its ruthless.
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Steelarm, Doctor of MMO gaming, ethics, and ideas.
*caught*WAR*caught**hack*TCoS*hack*hack*
EvE is not a good example of a hardcore PvP game. I have a 30+ mil full PvP spec character and I have spent 95% of my in game time in 0.0 -> 0.4 sec space. I have killed a LOT of things in the time I have played EVE, however most of the time it has been alts in shuttles/noobships or people that didn't know what had hit them before they woke up needing a new clone. I have beaten some very competant PvP'ers also...but there are so many ways and mechanics that allow players to AVOID combat in EVE, once a player becomes reasonably knowledgeable they are more or less immune to anything but getting ganked by gatecamps...which is why 99% of PvP in EVE is just cheap ganks and blob warfare.
The problem nowadays is that the term "PvP" is so incredibly vague and unspecific and has come to mean many different things. I love logging on and finding out my corp has a new merc contract, a war or that we are going back to our 0.0 hunting grounds, but every one of us knows that it will inevitably degenerate into our enemies hiding themselves safely in dock or just plain logging off. Safe zones, Warp Core Stabs, abundant use of cheesy, skilless jamming modules and largely item based combat are just some of the factors that make EvE PvP incredibly flawed for me. You may ask "why do I still play?"...because there is very little alternative in the RPG genre worth mentioning at present for PvP'ers.
EvE is a fantastic game in many respects and is truly a league above the vast majority of MMO's, but it will NEVER fill the gap in the market for the type of player skill based, FFA Open PvP that old school UO players talk about and that a good niche of gamers crave and sorely miss.
Player A, High level, runs up to player B,low level, kills him in 1~2 blows, takes all the stuff and simply laughs. no bushes. no backshoot. plain ganking, which happens in pvp MOST OF THE TIME.
"cover, concealment,inteligence,scouting,sniping"?
oh, you mean
level,equipment,time invested,connection speed,items?
pvp without loss is pvp, sorry.
Player A, High level, runs up to player B,low level, kills him in 1~2 blows, takes all the stuff and simply laughs. no bushes. no backshoot. plain ganking, which happens in pvp MOST OF THE TIME.
"cover, concealment,inteligence,scouting,sniping"?
oh, you mean
level,equipment,time invested,connection speed,items?
pvp without loss is pvp, sorry.
Another $100 in my bank. Man, Im gonna be rich!
This argument has been sung so many times it makes my ears sore. Please...spare us. Come on...please? I guess not, since thats the only argument you have against this.
The scenario you give us is something that happens in PvP. But it doesnt happen most of the time. In reality, there are probably more fair fights because people reach max level. Not only that, but its only the bad fights that are remembered.
Its people like you who simply cant take getting ganked. Youve lost the spirit of gaming, and I feel sorry for you. I dont know what happened to you, but its a sad lot. Okay, so they killed you...get over it. There are PLENTY of fair fights out there that ive had in AC, DAOC, and WoW. And Im NOT going to sacrifice it because some player like you cant take seeing his character killed by a high level. Toughen up - alright your character died. Big deal.
PvP gives a higher dynamic to the game and is the true nature of multiplayer. It gives you tactics, it forces you to group up for defense and offense, and it gives you a thrill that a computer cant give you. It forces you to move and travel in directions that are not normally thought of in the game. It makes the game an adventure. I'll definitly trade that for a couple bad kills by a high level once in awhile.
You enjoy farming and raiding over and over? You enjoy getting killed and killing with no consequences? Fine go ahead, live in your utopia, but then dont cry that the game gets boring. Because it does....most people eventually figure out theres more to gaming than clicking on fireball shooting down a raid boss over and over.
By my book, fizzle is 100% correct. PvP without conseuqences is not really PvP, its a utopia. And we all know a utopia gets boring real fast.
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Steelarm, Doctor of MMO gaming, ethics, and ideas.
The reason why FFA PVP fails is because there's no penalty for random ganking and bullying lower-leveled people. In real life, if you die, you die for good. If you break the law, you get arrested and are FORCED to stay in prison. In a MMORPG, if a ganker gets killed, he just resurrects and spends some time getting properly equipped to do more ganking. If he gets banned, he just creates a new account. There really is no system in place in FFA PVP to prevent this person from ruining the game for everyone else. Essentially, the penalties are not strict enough to prevent against a small select group of people from ruining the games for others. Hence why we'll never see a truly open game where you can steal any item, kill any NPC, etc. etc.
As for the current FFA PVP games out there right now, I don't know about your experiences, but from mine, I'm tired of the random gankings by level-capped players killing me when I'm low-level. Even similarily-leveled players will try and attack you when you're low on health after you killed a mob, or gang up on you and then run away when others come to help you out. In actuality, even fights are always rare because the opponent will always try to take any advantage they can, whether it be the element of surprise, superiority of numbers, or simply a level advantage. It might be fun for those who are dishing it out, but it's definitely not fun for those who have no choice but to take it. If I want to play a PVP game, I'll play a FPS. A MMORPG, in my opinion, is for teamwork and the social network, NOT random gankings and unfair battles.
Player A, High level, runs up to player B,low level, kills him in 1~2 blows, takes all the stuff and simply laughs. no bushes. no backshoot. plain ganking, which happens in pvp MOST OF THE TIME.
"cover, concealment,inteligence,scouting,sniping"?
oh, you mean
level,equipment,time invested,connection speed,items?
pvp without loss is pvp, sorry.
Another $100 in my bank. Man, Im gonna be rich!
This argument has been sung so many times it makes my ears sore. Please...spare us. Come on...please? I guess not, since thats the only argument you have against this.
The scenario you give us is something that happens in PvP. But it doesnt happen most of the time. In reality, there are probably more fair fights because people reach max level. Not only that, but its only the bad fights that are remembered.
Have you even PLAYED games with player looting? fair fights, my ass. fairs fights are rare, very rare. maybe in games like WoW, Daoc and AO, which don't contain player looting. the fights in Pre-Trammel UO, Runescape, EVE, Lineage 2 and more games with player looting sure as hell aren't fair fights most of the time. high level ganking low levels is simply what happens most.
Its people like you who simply cant take getting ganked. Youve lost the spirit of gaming, and I feel sorry for you. I dont know what happened to you, but its a sad lot. Okay, so they killed you...get over it. There are PLENTY of fair fights out there that ive had in AC, DAOC, and WoW. And Im NOT going to sacrifice it because some player like you cant take seeing his character killed by a high level. Toughen up - alright your character died. Big deal.
You need to buy yourself some glasses. like I said in previous posts, I don't mind pvp ganking in the games you mentioned because they DON'T have playerlooting. I said, and this time read carefully, that I dislike ganking in game that has heavy consequences such as player looting. get it? alright your character died. big deal, thats how I feel exactly. alright, your character died and lost all the stuff you worked hard for. suddenly it does gets annoying when your character dies.
PvP gives a higher dynamic to the game and is the true nature of multiplayer. It gives you tactics, it forces you to group up for defense and offense, and it gives you a thrill that a computer cant give you. It forces you to move and travel in directions that are not normally thought of in the game. It makes the game an adventure. I'll definitly trade that for a couple bad kills by a high level once in awhile.
Please speak for yourself.
You enjoy farming and raiding over and over? You enjoy getting killed and killing with no consequences? Fine go ahead, live in your utopia, but then dont cry that the game gets boring. Because it does....most people eventually figure out theres more to gaming than clicking on fireball shooting down a raid boss over and over.
yeah, for example I can go pvp in the game which is unbalanced and most of the time leads to frustration, or I can load up Battlefield 2 or Counterstrike and actually have fair fights.
By my book, fizzle is 100% correct. PvP without conseuqences is not really PvP, its a utopia. And we all know a utopia gets boring real fast.
pvp stands for player vs player. no mention of consequences or item looting. its a FACT pvp without consequences is still pvp.
1) Theres no levels in Eve.
2) I was pvping from day 3, I have more kills than ship losses. Got my first kill at 5 days old. Ppl play that game for 2 years and be whinin like "omg you need 20 million sp to be competative in pvp" f*ckin clowns.
People like to use skillpoints as a scapegoat, "you were lucky you have more SP than me" or "you were lucky you had stabs" or "you were lucky you had ECM."
It all comes down to, one of us was better prepared.
PVP is a skilll.
3) Theres many type of skills. Hand-eye coordination. Intelligence to use the proper fittings. Teamwork to team up 2-3 players to your 1.
What does "ganking" mean?
Ganking = Ambush
One person was prepared and the other person was not.
Ambush = Good tactics.
Tactics = Good use of scouting. Knowing where you are, hiding in the bushes ready to jump you. Using my strong force vs your weak force.
Get with it guys, this was all in Sun Tzu.
Fizzle, thats not how pvp in mmorpg works. there is simply no such thing as skill in pvp mmorpgs of today. there is no "hiding in the bushes", because in close to every mmorpg you can just tab around, not to mention there is a big shiny name tag above your head. hand eye coordination. well I see your a pretty old guy of 35, so for you probably consider it hand-eye coordination, but hitting keys 1-9 then sit back and see how your character defeat the oponont is not really high usage of hand eye coordination in my book.
maybe your ultimate dream mmorpg works like the story you just posted, but it sure as hell doesn't happen in the released pvp mmo's.
the only game that makes a small use of skill is EVE, it requires some strategy, but thats about it.
Another $100 in my bank. Man, Im gonna be rich!
This argument has been sung so many times it makes my ears sore. Please...spare us. Come on...please? I guess not, since thats the only argument you have against this.
The scenario you give us is something that happens in PvP. But it doesnt happen most of the time. In reality, there are probably more fair fights because people reach max level. Not only that, but its only the bad fights that are remembered.
Have you even PLAYED games with player looting? fair fights, my ass. fairs fights are rare, very rare. maybe in games like WoW, Daoc and AO, which don't contain player looting. the fights in Pre-Trammel UO, Runescape, EVE, Lineage 2 and more games with player looting sure as hell aren't fair fights most of the time. high level ganking low levels is simply what happens most.
Of course I have, thats why I support it. Ive had my share of plenty fair fights in those games, and then I had my plenty share of fights that werent so fair. But they were still fun. Sometimes I would gank people lower in then level than me...so what? Its the spirit of the game.
And now youre saying theres a difference between games with looting and no looting? The fights in Runescape and EVE and whatnot are JUST AS FAIR as those in WoW and DAOC. People still gank you, people still come out of nowhere as high levels and gank you. The only difference is that your dropping items. Saying that all high levels gank low levels on a regular basis is a generalization thats simply not true. Its more of a 50/50, because I see plenty of high levels fighting high levels out there. The only reason you think that theres more high levels ganking lowbies is because everyone whines about it.
Its people like you who simply cant take getting ganked. Youve lost the spirit of gaming, and I feel sorry for you. I dont know what happened to you, but its a sad lot. Okay, so they killed you...get over it. There are PLENTY of fair fights out there that ive had in AC, DAOC, and WoW. And Im NOT going to sacrifice it because some player like you cant take seeing his character killed by a high level. Toughen up - alright your character died. Big deal.
You need to buy yourself some glasses. like I said in previous posts, I don't mind pvp ganking in the games you mentioned because they DON'T have playerlooting. I said, and this time read carefully, that I dislike ganking in game that has heavy consequences such as player looting. get it? alright your character died. big deal, thats how I feel exactly. alright, your character died and lost all the stuff you worked hard for. suddenly it does gets annoying when your character dies.
Oh so now its about the looting. If your not allowed to loot, where the hell is the adrenaline? Wheres the excitement? Knowing that if you kill someone you may just get a great item. You forget that it works both ways, and thats what makes the game so exicting. I KNOW that you dont mind ganking without playlooting/heacy consequences becuase I KNOW you like the games that are utopias. And who said you lost ALL your stuff? I dont know any game except one or two than did that or plan on doing that. On DT on AC (Probably the best gaming expierience Ive ever had - ask anyone) even there wasnt full looting in that game and its considered the most brutal FFA PvP server in the world. And it didnt get annoying when my char died back then, cause I got used to it. I'd say to myself "Okay man, I gotta toughen up - ok, I died. I'll get even better items next time and work harder". Are you afraid to do that?
PvP gives a higher dynamic to the game and is the true nature of multiplayer. It gives you tactics, it forces you to group up for defense and offense, and it gives you a thrill that a computer cant give you. It forces you to move and travel in directions that are not normally thought of in the game. It makes the game an adventure. I'll definitly trade that for a couple bad kills by a high level once in awhile.
Please speak for yourself.
No, I'll speak for the majority.
You enjoy farming and raiding over and over? You enjoy getting killed and killing with no consequences? Fine go ahead, live in your utopia, but then dont cry that the game gets boring. Because it does....most people eventually figure out theres more to gaming than clicking on fireball shooting down a raid boss over and over.
yeah, for example I can go pvp in the game which is unbalanced and most of the time leads to frustration, or I can load up Battlefield 2 or Counterstrike and actually have fair fights.
You cant have fair fights in them either, cause no matter what someone is gonna attack you first and someone is gonna have a better weapon. There is no such thing as a fair fight. If your looking for a fair fight then MMO's certainly arent it. You do it not for the fair fight, but for the multiplayer aspect of it. Your answer means nothing.
By my book, fizzle is 100% correct. PvP without conseuqences is not really PvP, its a utopia. And we all know a utopia gets boring real fast.
pvp stands for player vs player. no mention of consequences or item looting. its a FACT pvp without consequences is still pvp.
Okay fine, get all technical on me. You know what I mean. I hope.
btw, I already wear glasses
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Steelarm, Doctor of MMO gaming, ethics, and ideas.
Well, what do you mean by skill-based? If you're talking about Ultima Online where you grind out skills instead of levels, you're just replacing one grind with another. If you're talking about EVE Online, it's more about knowing how to set up your ship than really anything you do during combat. It's an undisputable fact that current MMORPGs are more about equipment and levels rather than skills. Once people get a hang of the game, they pretty much know how to use their skills as well as the next person. There might be some differences, like one person who casts skills in a better order than another person, or casts them faster, but for the most part they are minor compared to how big equipment and skills come into play.
Did you watch the World of Roguecraft videos?
You telling me Mute (the main character in the movies) had no skills?
Theres different kind of skills. Theres no AIMING in MMORPG's, its all about your UI, your key layout, your build, your strategy.
I used to play WoW, I was fairly happy with it except for having to grind for gear. That was just annoying and I had to give that game up.
Yes, I think carebears should be able to play in a PVP game, they should not be totally safe but they should be able to avoid MOST fights. I want all players to be exposed to a PVP environment, to whet their appetite, and EASE them into PVP while at the same time letting them carebear MOST of the time without too much hassle.
I think theres alot of people out there who are downright TERRIFIED of PVP.
If that describes you, I don't hate you. I don't think you're a pussy, I don't want you to "cry more noob."
The problem is most people have not been exposed to a GOOD pvp experience
It only takes 1 heart pounding experience to get you hooked. Once you get that one experience, its all over, you won't play PVE ever again.
I know Ranma prolly hates Eve, he had a schitty experience, his corp moved to 0.0, left him in empire. See, he's scarred for life, had 1 crappy PVP experience, now he'll prolly be a carebear for the rest of his life.
Me I had just the opposite.
I had the good fortune of making a good friend early in the game, we were miners, would hang out every day and just mine and sip tea and chat.
Then one day some guy came into our belt with 4 mining barges, and proceeded to strip it clean.
Man we were MAD.
We started stealing his ore, bumping his miners, yelling at him in local. No reaction. It was a macro miner.
I purchased a hauler, and my friend bought a Rifter, he would steal ore, drop it into a jet can, and my hauler would grab the contents of the jet can and take it back to the station.
We musta stole 100 mil worth of Omber from this guy before he came to his keyboard and saw what happened.
He brought his Ferox, me and my friend docked.
15 minutes passed, we went back to the belt, my friend fitted a snowball launcher to his ship.
There was the Ferox waiting for us to steal something so he could blast us.
My friend launches a snowball at him, which is NOT considered a hostile act. This guy apparently felt it was, and fires back. Suddenly Concord warps in and owns him.
1 Fully fitted Ferox : 50 mil
A shitload of Omber : 100 mil
==================
A couple of 3-day old newbs owning a 2 year old Macrominer : Priceless
After that I could not bring myself to mine or carebear. From then on it was only PVP and I was hooked.
We need more people getting a taste of PVP, once you have a GOOD experience, you will pursue the PVP high.
Siehst du mich
Erkennst du mich
Ganz tief in meinem Herz
ist noch ein Platz f?r dich
Ich suche dich
Ich sehne mich
nach dem was ich geliebt hab
doch ich find es nicht