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What carebears have "won" and what they've "lost"
BurningPain
Member Posts: 68
Before I begin note that there are three different types of players.
Evil Players (The Wolves)
- Evil players kill for loot, greed and enjoy watching other players suffer. These players are totally chaotic.
Good Players (The Grizzly Bears)
- Good players have witnessed the suffering of others at the hands of evil players. These good players have chosen to protect the weaker ones against the evil. They focus on hunting down evil players, kiilling them, returning loot back to the weak in some cases. They uphold law & order.
Citizen (Aka Carebear, The Sheep)
- The citizens aka carebears are the peasents. The ones who don't know how to choose or how to react. Too afraid to take risk and worthless on the battlefield. The citizen contributes nothing. Unfortunately the way MMORPG's are now, there are too many citizens and not enough players sworn to good or evil.
"What did carebears lose?"
Carebears have lost the choice to choose between "Good" & "Evil". What mmorpg in today's market allows you to truly be evil & truly be good? In World of warcraft there is no "evil". Everyone is of good alignment. If you kill a so called enemy player they can come back into combat 30 seconds later and they lose absolutely nothing. This is no war, this is not controversey. Good & Evil are not present, only citizens (aka carebears). Most mmorpgs now a days you can't even message your enemy. What hollywood movie have you seen where the good guy doesn't speak with the bad guy? It's almost unheard of.
"What did carebears win?"
Carebears won peace of mind. Safety. Citizens aka carebears can venture into so called dangerous territory and not have to worry about other players killing them and taking all their loot. Citizens aka carebears need no longer worry about a "Deadly" adversary. The carebears are weak, but the problem is they are many.
So carebears, how does it feel to be "Satisfied" but not truly happy with the mmorpg you are playing?
World of warcraft for example = millions of "Satisfied" customers who are not really happy with the game but satisfied.
Humans are meant to experience controversey, anger, the sweet taste of revenge, the spoils of war (looting an enemy player) etc........
So carebears have you truly won?
I don't think so........
Luzarius
Comments
It's true but sad. The whole reason I started to play MMORPGs was the pure fun I had going out, and not knowing what will happen. Always on the look out, couldn't go hit "Auto Attack Macro" and watch a movie, eat some sandwiches and come back in 20 minutes. You actually had to be on your toes or someone would come by and take advantage of you.
That's why I liked the "hide" feature in UO. Everyone pretty much learned it because there was that fear of someone walking by and killing you at any given point. Did it happen? Yes, but most the time people just ran by each other and didn't pay any attention.
So open PvP wasn't that bad. Of course you're going to have a few people who will PvP anyone they see, but isn't that how it goes anywhere? Just a few days ago in real life, someone hit 24 people in a car. That's called life. Shouldn't be any different in a MMORPG. PvP should be more open then anything. And remember that there's always going to be more good then evil. So if there was someone who was just running around ganking everyone, word would get out and a search party would be formed and that player would be found and killed.
So what's so bad about that? Oh yes... Carebears are still playing with their rainbows...
Until you cancel your subscription, you are only helping to continue the cycle of mediocrity.
Being Pkd and PvP are two different things. I don't think anyone really enjoys the fruits of being PKd, but if it's PvP and it's pretty even, then you die and bitch, you're a carebear.
So cute and fuzzy.
______________________________________________________________________
Lend a hand and break the chains of regularity you lean so closely upon
I agree that PvP is awesome, I never said anything about ganking people, I find that to be below human and just annoying.
I remember when playing Lineage II, there were a few high end level people camping the exits of this one newbie town killing everyone who tried to leave. That was bullshit. And the people that were killing everyone was calling everyone names. I don't find that to be fun.
Is it me or is this SWG past and present????
lol -- I mean man, this just has SWG all over it...
______________________________
I usually picture the Career builder commercial with the room full of monkeys and upside down sales chart when thinking about the SOE/SWG decision making process.....
SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes." Ref NGE
Winner of the worst MMOS goes to.... the NGE and SWG..!!! http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadFeature=1034&bhcp=1
______________________________________________________________________
Lend a hand and break the chains of regularity you lean so closely upon
Baaaaaaah... Call me a sheep because I am happy with the game I am playing, and I don't need for anyone around me to be fighting each other, oddly. Somehow, fighting the game is good enough to keep me happy and satisfied. I don't need real people to be "the enemy".
I mean, there's no "bravery" involved in PvP either. It's not like someone's going to break down your door and beat you with a lead pipe if you lose. I love how everyone accuses the "carebears" of being weak and cowardly, when, in the end, there's no real gain or loss in a game, just whether or not you had a good time. Why is it so hard to believe that other people really, truly ARE coughing up $15 a month because THEY LIKE WHAT THEY ARE DOING? Honestly, it's not a crime to stop playing mmorpgs. Do you honestly think that *all* those hordes of carebears out there are so stupid that they are paying money to play a game that doesn't make them happy? HA!
There's no battle between PvPers and non-PvPers. If devs don't make PvP games that satisfy you, then complain to them, but I can tell you they're just following the money.
...
This is where I draw the line: __________________.
Yet another tiresome post.
oh look! another anti - PVE player post made by top-ganker BurningPain.
"the carebears are weak" yes, totally. that must be it. nevermind the fact that most find it just damn annoying getting killed & looted by someone who played 3 months more then they did. PVE players are just weak for not allowing themself to be looted by higher level players
so we "lost" a few people who will gank & loot other players. geuss what, no er.."carebear" like how the children like to call PVE players, gives a DAMN if we lost a few 1337 kids
"Humans are meant to experience controversey, anger, the sweet taste of
revenge, the spoils of war (looting an enemy player) etc........"
oh that explains it, your mentally Ill.
I seriously recommend you get yourself checked, because that sure isn't normal.
altough I have to say it is quite pathetic you need to get those feelings trough a GAME.
GBTCS.
The care bears had style. One alone is weak, but when they did that 5-4-3-2-1 count down and all shot out their rainbows, they were unstopable!
To each there own. Why do you think there's almost 200 MMORPGs out there? THere's one for everyone. If you don't like WoW, don't play it, if you don't like EVE, don't play it. So on and so forth.
It's a very simple formula. I understand that people will "cross" over because it's the hyped up thing to do, and when the game isn't just like what they were playing, or it's a little harder/easier, they start to bash it.
Why else would they make the best command in any MMORPG... /ignore playername
PS. I'm a grizzly bear.
The reality of hardcore PvP as people say it is not really the same thing I experienced from my time in UO.
No, in UO anti-pk guilds were just as bad as the reds they went after, and they never seemed all that concerned with actually protecting people so much as hunting down reds. I suppose they felt better because the people they zerged were reds, but it created an asinine system really. The fact that one or two people might have actually been doing some good for the sheep does not counteract the fact that anti-pk guilds consisted of lowbies who wanted to PvP but couldn't go it alone. I've been a red and have also been a part of anti-PK guilds and will say without a doubt that it got old once the coolness of being an MMO and the PvP wore off.
Thus we get the reason why hardcore PvP doesn't bring in enough people for it to work. You can pretty much cut it down to two people. You've got people who want to participate in PvP, and those who don't. If you mash them together, the PvEers walk off and play their own MMOs(UO was failing before Trammel). With just PvPers around, they aren't going to stick around, either, as the FPS types don't want to play hardcore PvP and the hardcore PvPers simply aren't numerous enough to make money for any company.
Think about like a developer. Do I want to cater to hardcore PvPers and maybe break even? Or do I want to cater to PvEers, who've proven they can make a company money on their own? Do you think EvE would be where it is right now if the devs just decided to get rid of secured space?
BTW, I get a laugh when people say that most miners actually like open PvP. I highly doubt the sheep are masochists.
You just can't mix the current PvP and PvE MMORPG crowds and make it work. This isn't the era where UO's the only thing around.
All we can do is hope for some nice pvp game which sells good.
well, usually when I say how it looks, I'm not only talking about the graphics
to the poster above me: In a developers interview at IGN ( the video one) the developer says it takes about 10 to 15 hours to go trough the single player part.
It is funny, because I don't see this "good" and "evil" have much to do with PvP.
I think that before we start labelling people as "good" or "evil," we must first define what is "right," what is "wrong," and who is the one to decide what is right and wrong.
These "citizens" place right and wrong where it rightfully belongs: the provider. What the provider says is right, is considered "good." What the provider considers to be wrong, is considered "evil." Therefore, players have no business enforcing what is "good" and "evil," because if it were truly evil, like hacking, the provider would have kicked the player out.
If players are left to decide what is right and what is wrong, then whatever they like is "right," and therefore, "good," or "noble." Also, whatever they don't like is "wrong," and considered "evil," or "bad."
This is where these "wolves" and these "grizzly bears" fit into. In fact, I see the "good players" as worse than the "bad players." At least the "bad players" recognize that nobody is worth more or less than anyone else, and that there is nothing intrinsically noble or ignoble about playing an online game.
I can't say the same about these "good players." They don't care about the "carebears," or "sheep," or "citizens," or whatever you want to call them, as much as they care about what they like, at the expense of what they don't like. They don't pwn people that are a detriment to the game as much as they pwn people that they perceive to be a "detriment to the community," brag about it on the forums, and proceed to pwn everyone who doesn't agree with them.
Of course, to the "good players," there is only one community that matters, and that is the community of them and those they prefer. In fact, they like the "evil players" more than they like the "citizens," because you can't fight for what the "good player" wants, if you are unwilling to PvP for the things the "good player" wants, and what they want usually has to do with Ventrillo, TeamSpeak, DKPs, buffbots, camping, raiding, catassing, begging the devs to reward the things they are good at and like, fighting people who are perceived to be "evil doers," flaming all of those who don't do what they consider good, and doing what they consider to be good. Everyone else is worse than "evil," because the only person they hate more than the ones they view as "evil," are the ones who rightfully claim that there are no "good" and "evil" players, only paying ones, and ones that the provider allowed to play. They are people that are seen as unfit to play, let alone they pay the same fee, and contribute the same amount.
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
Siehst du mich
Erkennst du mich
Ganz tief in meinem Herz
ist noch ein Platz f?r dich
Ich suche dich
Ich sehne mich
nach dem was ich geliebt hab
doch ich find es nicht
"Evil" as the opening post suggest can never be done. It will be abused, always abused by players no matter what type of deterents are placed in the game. People are selfish and that differs in degree from person to person. There will always be people that will get their enjoyment by making the play time of other people a horrible experience.
Because of this, defined and structured PvP, is the only thing that is going to solve that problem. Players can not and some will not control themselves in a completely open environment I feel.
"Carebears" as some put it aren't afraid of risk. The thing is as I see it is they want to choice to decide for themselves if they want to take part in PvP or not and not have it ruin their gaming experience. Games like Anarchy Online, Everquest 2, Dark Age of Camelot understand this aspect of the player base it seems. Especailly Dark Age of Camelot where you have an entire world to quest, adventure, and group with players. You never have to go into the Frontier where the PvP (Realm vs. Realm) combat is if you don't want to. YOu have the choice to take part in it if you want. That's what it comes down to I think.
I don't see it as "carebears" wanting to do away with PvP, they simply rather not take part in it if they don't want to. If a person likes PvP that's fine but I don't think people should at all think that because a perosn likes PvP that they accept PKing or ignore that it takes place or try to downplay it. I like PvP but refuse to take part in a lot of times because I know people abuse the system, so I stick to structured PvP games.
Players will never be "happy". For a player to be "happy" in a true sense with a game, the game would have to be a LOT, LOT, LOT more then what they are now.
This whole situaton of winning or losing. I think "carebears' have won all around. They get the peace of knowing their play time isn't going to be ruined by another player that feels the urge to kill them and take what they earned. They have the choice to take part in PvP in majority of games if they want to and it isn't forced upon them.
The lost of "Good & Evil" I don't see as a lost to "carebears" but more of a lost to Pkers. Many like to hide behind the idea that they are playing an "evil" character and expect people to accept it. Sorry I don't buy that. I see it as players abusing the system and then getting upset when their prey are gone. They can't abuse the system the way they want to and are only left with each other and that isn't fun because the real fun for Pkers are picking on those that don't want to be bothered by them. If these people were so concerned about the testing their skills or playing against real thinking players then they wouldn't be so dismissive of structured PvP games where they actually have to go up against similar skilled and level players, players that have the same desire as they do, players that are ready for the challenge brought to them. Instead they go around calling people "carebears" or saying those that don't want to take part in PvP are weak or scared or don't know how to take risk or play the game or know how to have fun. That isn't the case for those players, they simply don't want to deal with pkers and the excuses they try to hide behind. It is many of those pkers that turn off people from PvP. Some pkers simply don't want to accept that some players just have no desire to play against other players but with them. It's nothing about not wanting to take risk, etc... It's as simple as that at times.