Originally posted by BurningPain Before I begin note that there are three different types of players.
Evil Players (The Wolves) - Evil players kill for loot, greed and enjoy watching other players suffer. These players are totally chaotic.
Good Players (The Grizzly Bears) - Good players have witnessed the suffering of others at the hands of evil players. These good players have chosen to protect the weaker ones against the evil. They focus on hunting down evil players, kiilling them, returning loot back to the weak in some cases. They uphold law & order.
Citizen (Aka Carebear, The Sheep) - The citizens aka carebears are the peasents. The ones who don't know how to choose or how to react. Too afraid to take risk and worthless on the battlefield. The citizen contributes nothing. Unfortunately the way MMORPG's are now, there are too many citizens and not enough players sworn to good or evil.
"What did carebears lose?" Carebears have lost the choice to choose between "Good" & "Evil". What mmorpg in today's market allows you to truly be evil & truly be good? In World of warcraft there is no "evil". Everyone is of good alignment. If you kill a so called enemy player they can come back into combat 30 seconds later and they lose absolutely nothing. This is no war, this is not controversey. Good & Evil are not present, only citizens (aka carebears). Most mmorpgs now a days you can't even message your enemy. What hollywood movie have you seen where the good guy doesn't speak with the bad guy? It's almost unheard of.
"What did carebears win?" Carebears won peace of mind. Safety. Citizens aka carebears can venture into so called dangerous territory and not have to worry about other players killing them and taking all their loot. Citizens aka carebears need no longer worry about a "Deadly" adversary. The carebears are weak, but the problem is they are many.
So carebears, how does it feel to be "Satisfied" but not truly happy with the mmorpg you are playing?
World of warcraft for example = millions of "Satisfied" customers who are not really happy with the game but satisfied.
Humans are meant to experience controversey, anger, the sweet taste of revenge, the spoils of war (looting an enemy player) etc........
So carebears have you truly won?
I don't think so........
Luzarius
Can we start calling the non-"carebears" crybabies? Apparently the can't stop whining and crying about noy getting their way for two minutes.
Why don't we just stop calling people names all together? Well, unless you really enjoy that sort of thing, in which case... carry on. You're all doing a bang up job!
Originally posted by neschria Do you honestly think that *all* those hordes of carebears out there are so stupid that they are paying money to play a game that doesn't make them happy?
"Carebears have lost the choice to choose between "Good" & "Evil". What mmorpg in today's market allows you to truly be evil & truly be good? In World of warcraft there is no "evil". Everyone is of good alignment. If you kill a so called enemy player they can come back into combat 30 seconds later and they lose absolutely nothing. This is no war, this is not controversey. Good & Evil are not present, only citizens (aka carebears). Most mmorpgs now a days you can't even message your enemy. What hollywood movie have you seen where the good guy doesn't speak with the bad guy? It's almost unheard of."
Posts like yours really boggle me. Its the total shall we say part of ignoring what got us where we are thing..
What you describe as losing or what might be "best" sounds pretty much like old school UO.
Why did we lose old school UO?
Was it because of the little bands of people running around using UI bugs to cast on people 3 screens away (all names bug).
Was it the people that used UO Extreme to find the little miners that could hide. Or to steal your house key and put it in the bank (from your house). So that even when you killed them you couldn't get the key back.. so you knew you were going to get looted.l
Or any various other exploit..
The same bunch that move from game to game to use every exploit or hack they can find (almost always pvp games). Like the speedhack/radar users from DAoC that still use the crap even tho mythic says they ban bunches..
The problem is you describe the people that really shall we say "pvp". That didn't want to chase a miner and shoot them in the back. They actually wanted a challenge.
What was lost.. wasn't lost due to carebears.
It was lost due to little exploit/cheaters that ruined it for YOU and the "carebears" that might have pvp'd.
Everyone I knew in UO except one person left for EQ... without exception they all left due to no non-consenual pvp. (as trammel wasn't out then).
I mean seriously if you want to blame someone for what anyone lost...
You need look no further than those people who claim to be "pvp'rs" but really are just little griefing cheats.
They brought you the murder system... the penalties and finally trammel to UO.
Then changed every pvp based game into what you see today.
(carebears have their own version that are the class envy people.. that cry nerf any time their class seems to suck more than another).
I think it's funny the whole idea of being truly "good" or "evil" in a freaking video game. In real life I consider myself a contributing member of society but in games I like to play "evil" classes like necromancers in GW or the foresaken in "WOW." Likewise, I've met plenty of total asshats in real life who pretend to be noble paladins or whatever so people in-game think of them as worthy human beings.
The truth is there is almost nothing you can do in a game that makes you a hero or a villian. Even the worst ganker is at most an irritant. These players will never live up to the juvenile fantasy of being a super-villian or avenging rebel without a cause. Likewise, being the nice guy and "saving" other players really isn't that heroic because all you're really doing is playing a role IN A GAME.
It's the equivalent of some sports star being the ultimate teamplayer and class act on the court/field but who beats his wife and kids when he comes home. Nothing he does in game will make up for how he acts in real life. Or what if a player throws a temper tantrum and punches another player in a game (like Zidane in the World Cup)? Most fans don't look at such players as badass villians worthy of fear and respect - rather they see them as poor losers and babies.
As a "carebear" I don't think I lose anything at all in my game. I'm decent at organized PVP and get a rush when I win a close match against well-known guilds. Somehow I think that rush would be greatly diminished if I was minding my own business only to be one-shotted from behind by some ganker. Being a carebear doesn't mean you don't take chances or compete with other players - it just means you want at least some buffer from the stupidity and petty bullying that happens too often in real life.
No we have not lost anything, lets take world of warcraft for example.
Evil : High lvls ganking lowbies trying to quest
Good : Protectors come on call when lowbies are in danger and defeat the evil
Same shit another day, this scenerio runs different ways.
If you wanna play your little good vs evil fantasy world, than take horde vs alliance horde being evil or alliance whichever way your little fruity self wants to roleplay it.
The FACT IS PEOPLE DONT LIKE TO LOSE HARD EARNED LOOT it ends up one uber ganking ( Probbly hacker ) having all the fun and everyone else getting ganked, we don't want to play in a world of top results of the best only being the best and the poor having to struggle we want equality all having a chance to being the best, you given us the name as carebears but I see us as smart players the old ways are gone for a reason, because of PERSONAL ENJOYMENT. On a little sidenote, I've played games as far back as the non carebear days and I must say Their was WAY more Wolves than your so called " grizzles " Becuase most high lvl people tend to turn out to be ignorant no life jerks who just gank for a living.- Topic Closed ( my 0.02$ )
On a little sidenote, I've played games as far back as the non carebear days and I must say Their was WAY more Wolves than your so called " grizzles " Becuase most high lvl people tend to turn out to be ignorant no life jerks who just gank for a living.- Topic Closed ( my 0.02$ )
Well said Arcticwolf - I never played UO but from what I've seen even in WOW few high ranking people ever respond when lowbies are getting ganked unless
A. you have a close friend with equivalent gear to ganker (passer-bys almost never help)
B. said friend is in the area
and
C. said friend is not in a mission/battleground/raiding/farming
Forget about anyone coming to your aid out of a sense of heroics or the common cause.
Just as my own aside - I saw too many Diablo anti-pkers use hacks and even send viruses to other players' e-mail accounts all in the name of "avenging pkers and protecting the little guy." A former friend committed borderline criminal activities by hacking/crashing PK guild websites.
...what's stopping somebody from coming up to you in real life and killing you on the spot? You certainly won't have a restricted zone there. Sure, they'll be dealt with in due time by the authorities, but shouldn't this be the best way to do PvP? Look to History or Modern Day. I like to think of MMORPGs not as games, but different worlds we the players get to explore.
"Games shouldn't be like real life, I don't play them to do what I could do in real life and make actual progress."
Well, think of it this way. Could you slay a dragon in real life? Could you become a legendary hero in real life? Could you kill somebody in real life without ruining everything forever?
Originally posted by parrotpholk Speaking of AoC which I also am looking forward to. Have they actually said from a pure time standpoint how long the first 20 lvls of single player action will take
I think they said in the lines of 20+ hours. It's a one time thing too. Once you complete it, you never have to do it again, not even for a newly rolled character.
perhaps i'm a rare case but i enjoyed what UO had - you had to make important decisions of where to go - it created sort of a big community of people watching out for other people - "There is Reds at the X cross road" usually you wouldnt see them because they would be hiding in the bushes..you never did have the advantage of looking all around you..like you do now with 3D games.....im not a pker but i can enjoy what both elements offer having to much of one can just element the fun factor
nowadays i dont care about dying because i can do it over and over again...the old way i had to think of other ways to accomplish goals taking different directions..being aware of who is inside from human to AI controlled enemies...good times
Qoute: "I neva *ucked anybody over in my life, who didn't have it comin' to 'im, you got that? All I have in this world is my balls, and my word, and I don't break 'em for no one, jou understand?" Tony Montana
Originally posted by BurningPain Before I begin note that there are three different types of players.
Evil Players (The Wolves) - Evil players kill for loot, greed and enjoy watching other players suffer. These players are totally chaotic.
Good Players (The Grizzly Bears) - Good players have witnessed the suffering of others at the hands of evil players. These good players have chosen to protect the weaker ones against the evil. They focus on hunting down evil players, kiilling them, returning loot back to the weak in some cases. They uphold law & order.
Citizen (Aka Carebear, The Sheep) - The citizens aka carebears are the peasents. The ones who don't know how to choose or how to react. Too afraid to take risk and worthless on the battlefield. The citizen contributes nothing. Unfortunately the way MMORPG's are now, there are too many citizens and not enough players sworn to good or evil.
"What did carebears lose?" Carebears have lost the choice to choose between "Good" & "Evil". What mmorpg in today's market allows you to truly be evil & truly be good? In World of warcraft there is no "evil". Everyone is of good alignment. If you kill a so called enemy player they can come back into combat 30 seconds later and they lose absolutely nothing. This is no war, this is not controversey. Good & Evil are not present, only citizens (aka carebears). Most mmorpgs now a days you can't even message your enemy. What hollywood movie have you seen where the good guy doesn't speak with the bad guy? It's almost unheard of.
"What did carebears win?" Carebears won peace of mind. Safety. Citizens aka carebears can venture into so called dangerous territory and not have to worry about other players killing them and taking all their loot. Citizens aka carebears need no longer worry about a "Deadly" adversary. The carebears are weak, but the problem is they are many.
So carebears, how does it feel to be "Satisfied" but not truly happy with the mmorpg you are playing?
World of warcraft for example = millions of "Satisfied" customers who are not really happy with the game but satisfied.
Humans are meant to experience controversey, anger, the sweet taste of revenge, the spoils of war (looting an enemy player) etc........
So carebears have you truly won?
I don't think so........
Luzarius
A Fing Men!!!!
Let me buy you a beer!! Couldn't have said it better myself!!
Carebears do NOT know what a true MMO is.....Fact!
Risk vs Reward?? ROFL..What risk? "Think I'll go kill this dragon tonight with my guild..yawn..Hope I dont fall asleep" Riiiiight *cough*
If Developers could see through the Carebear BullS**T maybe they can make a game for us NON-Carebears since we are paying customers too.
Originally posted by Synyster777 My post wasn't directed towards you or anyone really I was just saying how I feel lol and yes campers/gankers are frustrating to the core. I love when they go it is a PvP game noob deal with it. Then I am like you call that PvP? Wow that was some crazy PvP I almost had you there. Synyster takes 4763234 damage from Gankers Ice Blast.
The point is: No Developers are making Open PvP games for those who enjoy it. Why? Because people like you come here and cry about getting ganked..So what??
Learn to play..You getting ganked makes you mad, but also makes your blood flow. Move on, goto another area. Eventually you will get stronger to deal with that ganker(Alone or with friends). Your not in a rush, you only cry because getting ganked is taking away from you? SO WHAT? Move on!
You in a rush to reach endgame? Why? So you can be safe? Gank others? What?
Bottom line is: Developers need to make Open PvP/Loot Systems for those that enjoy that gamestyle! We had that gamestyle until people started complaining and whining (Carebear) and it went away or was changed into easy-mode! Carebears got what they wanted. Give us what we want. If you dont like "Our" style of play...Stick with your Carebear game your currently in!
What upsets me is that people KNOW what type of game they are getting into before they start playing (YES, YOU DO KNOW) and then decide to try and "Kiddie-fy" it away from us. Those people I wish I could punch in the mouth thru their screen lol
When you learn about a game and you see "Open PvP/Loot..ect" in the description, just look the other way, because there is nothing to see here for Carebears.
Originally posted by Zaradis perhaps i'm a rare case but i enjoyed what UO had - you had to make important decisions of where to go - it created sort of a big community of people watching out for other people - "There is Reds at the X cross road" usually you wouldnt see them because they would be hiding in the bushes..you never did have the advantage of looking all around you..like you do now with 3D games.....im not a pker but i can enjoy what both elements offer having to much of one can just element the fun factor nowadays i dont care about dying because i can do it over and over again...the old way i had to think of other ways to accomplish goals taking different directions..being aware of who is inside from human to AI controlled enemies...good times
Good ol' Cross Roads. Next to Vesper. I remember getting jumped there a ton of times by the PK guild "Smurfs". That would suck hardcore.
Originally posted by Laneo Originally posted by Synyster777 My post wasn't directed towards you or anyone really I was just saying how I feel lol and yes campers/gankers are frustrating to the core. I love when they go it is a PvP game noob deal with it. Then I am like you call that PvP? Wow that was some crazy PvP I almost had you there. Synyster takes 4763234 damage from Gankers Ice Blast.
The point is: No Developers are making Open PvP games for those who enjoy it. Why? Because people like you come here and cry about getting ganked..So what??
Learn to play..You getting ganked makes you mad, but also makes your blood flow. Move on, goto another area. Eventually you will get stronger to deal with that ganker(Alone or with friends). Your not in a rush, you only cry because getting ganked is taking away from you? SO WHAT? Move on!
You in a rush to reach endgame? Why? So you can be safe? Gank others? What?
Bottom line is: Developers need to make Open PvP/Loot Systems for those that enjoy that gamestyle! We had that gamestyle until people started complaining and whining (Carebear) and it went away or was changed into easy-mode! Carebears got what they wanted. Give us what we want. If you dont like "Our" style of play...Stick with your Carebear game your currently in!
What upsets me is that people KNOW what type of game they are getting into before they start playing (YES, YOU DO KNOW) and then decide to try and "Kiddie-fy" it away from us. Those people I wish I could punch in the mouth thru their screen lol
When you learn about a game and you see "Open PvP/Loot..ect" in the description, just look the other way, because there is nothing to see here for Carebears.
/end rant
Thats exactly what we did. We left and went to our own game and lo and behold there wasn't enough of you to make your game last. The developers are business people. They will not design a game to fail. They see that (so far anyway) there are not enough or your type of player to justify spending millions of dollars to make your game, let alone having that game create a reasonable profit, but there is enough of our kind.
Venge Sunsoar
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
Originally posted by BurningPain They uphold law & order...
Citizen (Aka Carebear, The Sheep) - The citizens aka carebears are the peasents. The ones who don't know how to choose or how to react. Too afraid to take risk and worthless on the battlefield. The citizen contributes nothing. Unfortunately the way MMORPG's are now, there are too many citizens and not enough players sworn to good or evil...
Carebears won peace of mind. The carebears are weak, but the problem is they are many...how does it feel to be "Satisfied" but not truly happy with the mmorpg you are playing?
Humans are meant to experience controversey, anger, the sweet taste of revenge, the spoils of war (looting an enemy player) etc...
So carebears have you truly won?
I don't think so........
Luzarius
It's quite evident from your post that you're not a fan of these "carebears", as you so lovingly refer to them. It's also evident that for you to emphasize your position that you have decided to degrade anyone with a playstyle that differs from your own...be they evil, or carebear (I assume that you're of that "law and order" crowd, because it is the one in which you probably feel most full of yourself, and your post comes across as such).
You have this view of yourself as the equalizer...the great cowboy who is out there policing the game world, and meting out justice. However, I'd be inclined to ask, "Who made you the judge?" If you exist to maintain this so-called "law and order", then surely evil must exist right there with you. And were evil not to exist, then there is no need for this "law", to combat a foe that is nonexistant. And so are born "citizens" as you would call them...or your derogatory term, "carebears." Carebears, who do not require a lawman because evil is not allowed to run rampant. Satisified, but not happy? Again, thank you for judging what makes an individual happy and what does not. I would be led to believe that freedom of choice makes one happy, and consequently leads to satisfaction. However, you would have us believe that their happiness is false...because it is not your belief, because it is you who is unhappy and unsatisfied.
If I had to choose one of your "categories" to which I belong, I would say that I belong to all three because I have the choice to be good, evil, or neutral. The decision is left to me, and to no one else. And whatever my decision, if you feel that somehow your playstyle is affected, then I believe it is you who will have to change or adapt, not me. Perhaps the carebear is really the winner because they are self-governing.
And so, feel proud of yourself as self-appointed protector of the "weak", and the glorious defender of what is good. But really, you're simply a warmonger who is not satisified with who you are unless you're attacking someone else. In my eyes, you're the "wolf".
Originally posted by BurningPain Before I begin note that there are three different types of players.
Evil Players (The Wolves) - Evil players kill for loot, greed and enjoy watching other players suffer. These players are totally chaotic.
Good Players (The Grizzly Bears) - Good players have witnessed the suffering of others at the hands of evil players. These good players have chosen to protect the weaker ones against the evil. They focus on hunting down evil players, kiilling them, returning loot back to the weak in some cases. They uphold law & order.
Citizen (Aka Carebear, The Sheep) - The citizens aka carebears are the peasents. The ones who don't know how to choose or how to react. Too afraid to take risk and worthless on the battlefield. The citizen contributes nothing. Unfortunately the way MMORPG's are now, there are too many citizens and not enough players sworn to good or evil.
"What did carebears lose?" Carebears have lost the choice to choose between "Good" & "Evil". What mmorpg in today's market allows you to truly be evil & truly be good? In World of warcraft there is no "evil". Everyone is of good alignment. If you kill a so called enemy player they can come back into combat 30 seconds later and they lose absolutely nothing. This is no war, this is not controversey. Good & Evil are not present, only citizens (aka carebears). Most mmorpgs now a days you can't even message your enemy. What hollywood movie have you seen where the good guy doesn't speak with the bad guy? It's almost unheard of.
"What did carebears win?" Carebears won peace of mind. Safety. Citizens aka carebears can venture into so called dangerous territory and not have to worry about other players killing them and taking all their loot. Citizens aka carebears need no longer worry about a "Deadly" adversary. The carebears are weak, but the problem is they are many.
So carebears, how does it feel to be "Satisfied" but not truly happy with the mmorpg you are playing?
World of warcraft for example = millions of "Satisfied" customers who are not really happy with the game but satisfied.
Humans are meant to experience controversey, anger, the sweet taste of revenge, the spoils of war (looting an enemy player) etc........
So carebears have you truly won?
I don't think so........
Luzarius
excellent post. puts everything in perspective. Unfortunatley for the OP, Vertex and whoever else is supporting this post, I have some bad news to tell you. They wont listen. Ive tried it before, and they resort to the same argument over and over.
There are two arguments that carebears cling to.
The first and foremost that is usually posted in these forums is the "People dont think its fun" argument. They say that since your able to kill someone in FFA PvP it isnt "fun". Ganking people isnt fun. Getting killed with consequences isnt fun.
This has been proven wrong time and time again and they dont listen. The way a game is "fun" is because it is challenging, and once you complete that challenge, you get rewarded, thus its pretty fun. In these new MMO's, there is no challenge. There is NO CHALLENGE in fighting against a bot. As the person before me posted, he doesnt know why people pay to fight against a bot. I dont know either. The majority of players Ive talked to hate playing against bots and hate PvE in general because there is no challenge, thus it isnt fun.
In FFA PvP, it gets your adrenaline pumping, your playing against real people (multiplayer?) and you have to watch your back. It forces players into special tactics and makes each gaming expierience unique. Your not running the same boss a billion times. There is purpose to it - to stay alive. And most people ive talked to find PvP alot more fun than clicking on a bunch of bots.
The next argument is something even less full of substance, called the "your insulting us cause you support PvP, so your a brutal barbarian that doesnt care about people's feelings:"
For example, the first paragraph:
Originally posted by vortigen7 Originally posted by BurningPain They uphold law & order...
Citizen (Aka Carebear, The Sheep) - The citizens aka carebears are the peasents. The ones who don't know how to choose or how to react. Too afraid to take risk and worthless on the battlefield. The citizen contributes nothing. Unfortunately the way MMORPG's are now, there are too many citizens and not enough players sworn to good or evil...
Carebears won peace of mind. The carebears are weak, but the problem is they are many...how does it feel to be "Satisfied" but not truly happy with the mmorpg you are playing?
Humans are meant to experience controversey, anger, the sweet taste of revenge, the spoils of war (looting an enemy player) etc...
So carebears have you truly won?
I don't think so........
Luzarius
It's quite evident from your post that you're not a fan of these "carebears", as you so lovingly refer to them. It's also evident that for you to emphasize your position that you have decided to degrade anyone with a playstyle that differs from your own...be they evil, or carebear (I assume that you're of that "law and order" crowd, because it is the one in which you probably feel most full of yourself, and your post comes across as such).
You have this view of yourself as the equalizer...the great cowboy who is out there policing the game world, and meting out justice. However, I'd be inclined to ask, "Who made you the judge?" If you exist to maintain this so-called "law and order", then surely evil must exist right there with you. And were evil not to exist, then there is no need for this "law", to combat a foe that is nonexistant. And so are born "citizens" as you would call them...or your derogatory term, "carebears." Carebears, who do not require a lawman because evil is not allowed to run rampant. Satisified, but not happy? Again, thank you for judging what makes an individual happy and what does not. I would be led to believe that freedom of choice makes one happy, and consequently leads to satisfaction. However, you would have us believe that their happiness is false...because it is not your belief, because it is you who is unhappy and unsatisfied.
This is a common tactic used on these forums. Saying that the PvP supporter is degrading anyone that doesnt agree with him sometimes even claiming because he likes to grief in game. Aboslutely stupid and hilarious.
The OP did not degrade anyone, he simply spoke the truth. The truth is, Carebears dont like challenges, they want IMMEDIATE satisfaction of becoming "the best", and are afraid of anything that may threaten that, including dying. Carebears promote ignorance, meaningless gameplay, a utopia world (there are no enemies, no looting, no death penalties), restricted game mechanics, and repetitve gaming. I will even daresay they promote grinding. They are paying to play with bots.
An insult is only taken not given. Think of it carebears....is it really insulting to say that carebears dont like to fight? It may be blunt, but its the truth...carebears dont like to fight, they want to be secure in their grinding for power, and call anyone "aggressive" or "mean" if they dont think otherwise. This is not an insult. It is just truth.
However you take it as insult. So what does that tell us?
You realize that you are the ones that truly lost. Youve lost the freedom of gaming to development companies that stick you in instances and say "okay kids, play with the bots" ALL THE TIME. That is what WoW is the culmination of - the carebears whining so much they made a utopia game. A game with no challenges and no point. Dare I say...boring? How many players have said that WoW is boring? Quite a bit.
So keep on throwing that cash away. Cause im keeping my money, thank you
-------------------------------------------
Steelarm, Doctor of MMO gaming, ethics, and ideas.
"...what's stopping somebody from coming up to you in real life and killing you on the spot? You certainly won't have a restricted zone there. Sure, they'll be dealt with in due time by the authorities, but shouldn't this be the best way to do PvP? Look to History or Modern Day. I like to think of MMORPGs not as games, but different worlds we the players get to explore."
Please to the person that posted this.. what I'm about to say isn't directed at you .. but at the idea.
This has got to be the dumbest thing I ever heard.
There isn't a hell of a lot that stops anyone from killing somebody. I mean you can be a 10th degree black belt in every martial arts style on the planet.. some guy with a rifle can still shoot you.. or run you down with a car.
The idea is more to the point..
How many murder say happen in the average year in the US.. compared to how many murders happened the first year in Ultima Online. You would see a pretty big lead to the UO murders.
In real life as the example given by you..
Someone kills my father (an example).
My father doesn't respawn at some shrine to get revenge.
I go kill not only the guy that kill him but his entire family (an example).
None of them are gonna respawn or get raised from the dead to get back at me.
In a "game" like UO the people die.. they respawn (as a generic term) and go right back to it. Even if you had perma death they would just start over and be back at it.
Yes you could be looted in UO... not only by players but by mobs. I had no less than 5 exact sets of the gear I used in my bank at all times. I always had crafters and I always used the stuff I made. If I found a nice magic item I sold it to another player. Money was never a problem and I always had vendor(s) up at my house.
Truthfully in UO if I died and got looted I lost nothing. I just got to the bank and resupplied myself and was good to go a few minutes later.
On a lucky day I'd kill the guy who looted me a bit later and get all my stuff back and his.
I loved when T2A opened because when I killed titans it was about a 50/50 chance to find a chest full of somebody elses gear. (remember people carried crap in a chest so theif wouldn't be able to take it. Just opened it on the side of the screen to access your stuff and magic locked it in your bag..)
Anyway...
The problem with games is that the "community" never has any real way to deal with griefers. Game companies mostly want us to govern ourselves. In the real world if you go on a murder spree and get caught... most likely you're not gonna respawn a few hours later to do it again.
Unless the glove doesn't fit of course (har har).
I don't think you can really compare games to real life. Most people want to be entertained. The issue is when someone else wants to inflict their entertainment on someone that isn't being entertained by it..
BurningPain and Steelarm, if you are not open for other people's views, then maybe you should not post here.
as I and other have told you many times before, NOT everybody is like you. diffrent people enjoy diffrent things. WE decide what we think is fun, not you. and we have decided, and we do NOT enjoy your hardcore pvp style.
Nothing has been proven wrong, stop making things up to "prove" your point steelarm. not everybody is like you, far from it. and thats the only thing that has been proven.
Originally posted by BurningPain Before I begin note that there are three different types of players.
Evil Players (The Wolves) - Evil players kill for loot, greed and enjoy watching other players suffer. These players are totally chaotic.
Evil means that you do wrong doings on purpose, The so called "Evil" players your talking about aren't evil there just childish
Chaotic means you do things withouth purpose, "just because", There a rarity in mmorpg to much structure needed to set up an account and level
Good Players (The Grizzly Bears) - Good players have witnessed the suffering of others at the hands of evil players. These good players have chosen to protect the weaker ones against the evil. They focus on hunting down evil players, kiilling them, returning loot back to the weak in some cases. They uphold law & order.
Lol "they uphold law & order". So basically your saying that players not game mechanics should uphold the "law". So shouldn't there be rulling, goverment and voting on new laws be there ??? as long as there no court to punish peeps law & order are meaningless. Those "good" players are judge, jury and excutioner in one and inforce them as they see fit.
Citizen (Aka Carebear, The Sheep) - The citizens aka carebears are the peasents. The ones who don't know how to choose or how to react. Too afraid to take risk and worthless on the battlefield. The citizen contributes nothing. Unfortunately the way MMORPG's are now, there are too many citizens and not enough players sworn to good or evil.- The citizens aka carebears are the peasents. The ones who don't know how to choose or how to react. Too afraid to take risk and worthless on the battlefield. The citizen contributes nothing. Unfortunately the way MMORPG's are now, there are too many citizens and not enough players sworn to good or evil. The carebears are they ones that still know what REAL LIFE is and that there just playing a game they should be able to enjoy to the fullniss not at the beg and call of some nitwit that has too much time on his hand already is allot higher level then them and also going to slow the progress down in his already PRECIOUS game time. Thos griefing bastards that want open PvP should go out in reall life and experience it so when there playing again they realize not everybosy got 40+ time to play. People have work, have childeren raise them, help the RL community be of help of other people and they MAY not know how to act in a MMORPG to the standards of open PVP creaving FREAKS but they probably know 10 thimes as well to act in REAL LIFE. for the peeps wanting open PVP there only one thing worth saying GET A LIFE!!!!!!!!!!
"What did carebears lose?" Carebears have lost the choice to choose between "Good" & "Evil". What mmorpg in today's market allows you to truly be evil & truly be good? In World of warcraft there is no "evil". Everyone is of good alignment. If you kill a so called enemy player they can come back into combat 30 seconds later and they lose absolutely nothing. This is no war, this is not controversey. Good & Evil are not present, only citizens (aka carebears). Most mmorpgs now a days you can't even message your enemy. What hollywood movie have you seen where the good guy doesn't speak with the bad guy? It's almost unheard of.
What a bull. Carebears didn't lost any choice over good and evil the gained the option to make that choice at the moment they want. This is not the fault of the carebears they didn't "invent" the exp grind they just want to get the exp grind over with withouth interuption and more time los. Most people do some PvPing even these "carebears" but most people like to choice the time but more important the level at which they do so.
As for not being able to speak to each other that maybe unheard of in hollywood movies. BUT in real life HISTORY this has been a very common thing mostly peeps of DIFFERENT nations and LANGAUGES fight each other so assuming you want more reality. This is it.
"What did carebears win?" Carebears won peace of mind. Safety. Citizens aka carebears can venture into so called dangerous territory and not have to worry about other players killing them and taking all their loot. Citizens aka carebears need no longer worry about a "Deadly" adversary. The carebears are weak, but the problem is they are many.
The carebears know there playing a game. that carebear you call weak could be a 2 meter powerhouse in real life. Your sense of reality is deteriating because of too much mmorpg playing
So carebears, how does it feel to be "Satisfied" but not truly happy with the mmorpg you are playing?
It feels great not to be interupted by freaks for which the world of the mmorpg there playing has become more important then RL
World of warcraft for example = millions of "Satisfied" customers who are not really happy with the game but satisfied.
Only satified because blizzard is freaking slow with adding content and expansion. We are still VERY HAPPY about the fact you freaks can't kill us every where you want.
Humans are meant to experience controversey, anger, the sweet taste of revenge, the spoils of war (looting an enemy player) etc........
And after that they go play games so the can feel happy. There's enouf controversy, anger and sweet taste of revenge in real life if you don't spend 40 hours just playing mmorpg's. Go out and experiences it yourself
So carebears have you truly won?
The won and will keep winning because the games get programmed by adults that know the differents between Real life and games
Originally posted by BurningPain Before I begin note that there are three different types of players.
Evil Players (The Wolves) - Evil players kill for loot, greed and enjoy watching other players suffer. These players are totally chaotic.
Good Players (The Grizzly Bears) - Good players have witnessed the suffering of others at the hands of evil players. These good players have chosen to protect the weaker ones against the evil. They focus on hunting down evil players, kiilling them, returning loot back to the weak in some cases. They uphold law & order.
Citizen (Aka Carebear, The Sheep) - The citizens aka carebears are the peasents. The ones who don't know how to choose or how to react. Too afraid to take risk and worthless on the battlefield. The citizen contributes nothing. Unfortunately the way MMORPG's are now, there are too many citizens and not enough players sworn to good or evil.
"What did carebears lose?" Carebears have lost the choice to choose between "Good" & "Evil". What mmorpg in today's market allows you to truly be evil & truly be good? In World of warcraft there is no "evil". Everyone is of good alignment. If you kill a so called enemy player they can come back into combat 30 seconds later and they lose absolutely nothing. This is no war, this is not controversey. Good & Evil are not present, only citizens (aka carebears). Most mmorpgs now a days you can't even message your enemy. What hollywood movie have you seen where the good guy doesn't speak with the bad guy? It's almost unheard of.
"What did carebears win?" Carebears won peace of mind. Safety. Citizens aka carebears can venture into so called dangerous territory and not have to worry about other players killing them and taking all their loot. Citizens aka carebears need no longer worry about a "Deadly" adversary. The carebears are weak, but the problem is they are many.
So carebears, how does it feel to be "Satisfied" but not truly happy with the mmorpg you are playing?
World of warcraft for example = millions of "Satisfied" customers who are not really happy with the game but satisfied.
Humans are meant to experience controversey, anger, the sweet taste of revenge, the spoils of war (looting an enemy player) etc........
So carebears have you truly won?
I don't think so........
Luzarius
That's a very good analogy, if you don't mind I'll just shamlessly copy it and use it to explain to my EVE corp members what makes EVE so good. I'm running a small corp to help out the younger players getting to grips with EVE and this will help a lot.
Originally posted by Gameloading as I and other have told you many times before, NOT everybody is like you. diffrent people enjoy diffrent things. WE decide what we think is fun, not you. and we have decided, and we do NOT enjoy your hardcore pvp style.
I promise Gameloading, that if you listen to your own advice you would see that what those two are saying is the same thing I quoted from you.
Originally posted by Gameloading BurningPain and Steelarm, if you are not open for other people's views, then maybe you should not post here.
heed your own words.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
Originally posted by damian7 Originally posted by Gameloading BurningPain and Steelarm, if you are not open for other people's views, then maybe you should not post here.
heed your own words.
I am open to other people's views and opinions, thank you.
Comments
member of imminst.org
"Carebears have lost the choice to choose between "Good" & "Evil". What mmorpg in today's market allows you to truly be evil & truly be good? In World of warcraft there is no "evil". Everyone is of good alignment. If you kill a so called enemy player they can come back into combat 30 seconds later and they lose absolutely nothing. This is no war, this is not controversey. Good & Evil are not present, only citizens (aka carebears). Most mmorpgs now a days you can't even message your enemy. What hollywood movie have you seen where the good guy doesn't speak with the bad guy? It's almost unheard of."
Posts like yours really boggle me. Its the total shall we say part of ignoring what got us where we are thing..
What you describe as losing or what might be "best" sounds pretty much like old school UO.
Why did we lose old school UO?
Was it because of the little bands of people running around using UI bugs to cast on people 3 screens away (all names bug).
Was it the people that used UO Extreme to find the little miners that could hide. Or to steal your house key and put it in the bank (from your house). So that even when you killed them you couldn't get the key back.. so you knew you were going to get looted.l
Or any various other exploit..
The same bunch that move from game to game to use every exploit or hack they can find (almost always pvp games). Like the speedhack/radar users from DAoC that still use the crap even tho mythic says they ban bunches..
The problem is you describe the people that really shall we say "pvp". That didn't want to chase a miner and shoot them in the back. They actually wanted a challenge.
What was lost.. wasn't lost due to carebears.
It was lost due to little exploit/cheaters that ruined it for YOU and the "carebears" that might have pvp'd.
Everyone I knew in UO except one person left for EQ... without exception they all left due to no non-consenual pvp. (as trammel wasn't out then).
I mean seriously if you want to blame someone for what anyone lost...
You need look no further than those people who claim to be "pvp'rs" but really are just little griefing cheats.
They brought you the murder system... the penalties and finally trammel to UO.
Then changed every pvp based game into what you see today.
(carebears have their own version that are the class envy people.. that cry nerf any time their class seems to suck more than another).
I think it's funny the whole idea of being truly "good" or "evil" in a freaking video game. In real life I consider myself a contributing member of society but in games I like to play "evil" classes like necromancers in GW or the foresaken in "WOW." Likewise, I've met plenty of total asshats in real life who pretend to be noble paladins or whatever so people in-game think of them as worthy human beings.
The truth is there is almost nothing you can do in a game that makes you a hero or a villian. Even the worst ganker is at most an irritant. These players will never live up to the juvenile fantasy of being a super-villian or avenging rebel without a cause. Likewise, being the nice guy and "saving" other players really isn't that heroic because all you're really doing is playing a role IN A GAME.
It's the equivalent of some sports star being the ultimate teamplayer and class act on the court/field but who beats his wife and kids when he comes home. Nothing he does in game will make up for how he acts in real life. Or what if a player throws a temper tantrum and punches another player in a game (like Zidane in the World Cup)? Most fans don't look at such players as badass villians worthy of fear and respect - rather they see them as poor losers and babies.
As a "carebear" I don't think I lose anything at all in my game. I'm decent at organized PVP and get a rush when I win a close match against well-known guilds. Somehow I think that rush would be greatly diminished if I was minding my own business only to be one-shotted from behind by some ganker. Being a carebear doesn't mean you don't take chances or compete with other players - it just means you want at least some buffer from the stupidity and petty bullying that happens too often in real life.
D&D Home Page - What Class Are You? - Build A Character - D&D Compendium
No we have not lost anything, lets take world of warcraft for example.
Evil : High lvls ganking lowbies trying to quest
Good : Protectors come on call when lowbies are in danger and defeat the evil
Same shit another day, this scenerio runs different ways.
If you wanna play your little good vs evil fantasy world, than take horde vs alliance horde being evil or alliance whichever way your little fruity self wants to roleplay it.
The FACT IS PEOPLE DONT LIKE TO LOSE HARD EARNED LOOT it ends up one uber ganking ( Probbly hacker ) having all the fun and everyone else getting ganked, we don't want to play in a world of top results of the best only being the best and the poor having to struggle we want equality all having a chance to being the best, you given us the name as carebears but I see us as smart players the old ways are gone for a reason, because of PERSONAL ENJOYMENT. On a little sidenote, I've played games as far back as the non carebear days and I must say Their was WAY more Wolves than your so called " grizzles " Becuase most high lvl people tend to turn out to be ignorant no life jerks who just gank for a living.- Topic Closed ( my 0.02$ )
-ArcticWolf
Well said Arcticwolf - I never played UO but from what I've seen even in WOW few high ranking people ever respond when lowbies are getting ganked unless
A. you have a close friend with equivalent gear to ganker (passer-bys almost never help)
B. said friend is in the area
and
C. said friend is not in a mission/battleground/raiding/farming
Forget about anyone coming to your aid out of a sense of heroics or the common cause.
Just as my own aside - I saw too many Diablo anti-pkers use hacks and even send viruses to other players' e-mail accounts all in the name of "avenging pkers and protecting the little guy." A former friend committed borderline criminal activities by hacking/crashing PK guild websites.
D&D Home Page - What Class Are You? - Build A Character - D&D Compendium
About non-consensual PvP/PK...
...what's stopping somebody from coming up to you in real life and killing you on the spot? You certainly won't have a restricted zone there. Sure, they'll be dealt with in due time by the authorities, but shouldn't this be the best way to do PvP? Look to History or Modern Day. I like to think of MMORPGs not as games, but different worlds we the players get to explore.
"Games shouldn't be like real life, I don't play them to do what I could do in real life and make actual progress."
Well, think of it this way. Could you slay a dragon in real life? Could you become a legendary hero in real life? Could you kill somebody in real life without ruining everything forever?
No.
It's about doing things without consequence.
perhaps i'm a rare case but i enjoyed what UO had - you had to make important decisions of where to go - it created sort of a big community of people watching out for other people - "There is Reds at the X cross road" usually you wouldnt see them because they would be hiding in the bushes..you never did have the advantage of looking all around you..like you do now with 3D games.....im not a pker but i can enjoy what both elements offer having to much of one can just element the fun factor
nowadays i dont care about dying because i can do it over and over again...the old way i had to think of other ways to accomplish goals taking different directions..being aware of who is inside from human to AI controlled enemies...good times
Qoute: "I neva *ucked anybody over in my life, who didn't have it comin' to 'im, you got that? All I have in this world is my balls, and my word, and I don't break 'em for no one, jou understand?" Tony Montana
Let me buy you a beer!! Couldn't have said it better myself!!
Carebears do NOT know what a true MMO is.....Fact!
Risk vs Reward?? ROFL..What risk?
"Think I'll go kill this dragon tonight with my guild..yawn..Hope I dont fall asleep" Riiiiight *cough*
If Developers could see through the Carebear BullS**T maybe they can make a game for us NON-Carebears since we are paying customers too.
Time will tell
Nobody is perfect...My name is Nobody
Because people like you come here and cry about getting ganked..So what??
Learn to play..You getting ganked makes you mad, but also makes your blood flow. Move on, goto another area.
Eventually you will get stronger to deal with that ganker(Alone or with friends). Your not in a rush, you only cry because getting ganked is taking away from you? SO WHAT? Move on!
You in a rush to reach endgame? Why? So you can be safe? Gank others? What?
Bottom line is: Developers need to make Open PvP/Loot Systems for those that enjoy that gamestyle!
We had that gamestyle until people started complaining and whining (Carebear) and it went away or was changed into easy-mode! Carebears got what they wanted. Give us what we want. If you dont like "Our" style of play...Stick with your Carebear game your currently in!
What upsets me is that people KNOW what type of game they are getting into before they start playing (YES, YOU DO KNOW) and then decide to try and "Kiddie-fy" it away from us. Those people I wish I could punch in the mouth thru their screen lol
When you learn about a game and you see "Open PvP/Loot..ect" in the description, just look the other way, because there is nothing to see here for Carebears.
/end rant
Nobody is perfect...My name is Nobody
Because people like you come here and cry about getting ganked..So what??
Learn to play..You getting ganked makes you mad, but also makes your blood flow. Move on, goto another area.
Eventually you will get stronger to deal with that ganker(Alone or with friends). Your not in a rush, you only cry because getting ganked is taking away from you? SO WHAT? Move on!
You in a rush to reach endgame? Why? So you can be safe? Gank others? What?
Bottom line is: Developers need to make Open PvP/Loot Systems for those that enjoy that gamestyle!
We had that gamestyle until people started complaining and whining (Carebear) and it went away or was changed into easy-mode! Carebears got what they wanted. Give us what we want. If you dont like "Our" style of play...Stick with your Carebear game your currently in!
What upsets me is that people KNOW what type of game they are getting into before they start playing (YES, YOU DO KNOW) and then decide to try and "Kiddie-fy" it away from us. Those people I wish I could punch in the mouth thru their screen lol
When you learn about a game and you see "Open PvP/Loot..ect" in the description, just look the other way, because there is nothing to see here for Carebears.
/end rant
Thats exactly what we did. We left and went to our own game and lo and behold there wasn't enough of you to make your game last. The developers are business people. They will not design a game to fail. They see that (so far anyway) there are not enough or your type of player to justify spending millions of dollars to make your game, let alone having that game create a reasonable profit, but there is enough of our kind.
Venge Sunsoar
Carebears have already lost the most important thing there is for a gamer.
A reason to play.
Can't believe people actually pay money to kill bots.
It's quite evident from your post that you're not a fan of these "carebears", as you so lovingly refer to them. It's also evident that for you to emphasize your position that you have decided to degrade anyone with a playstyle that differs from your own...be they evil, or carebear (I assume that you're of that "law and order" crowd, because it is the one in which you probably feel most full of yourself, and your post comes across as such).
You have this view of yourself as the equalizer...the great cowboy who is out there policing the game world, and meting out justice. However, I'd be inclined to ask, "Who made you the judge?" If you exist to maintain this so-called "law and order", then surely evil must exist right there with you. And were evil not to exist, then there is no need for this "law", to combat a foe that is nonexistant. And so are born "citizens" as you would call them...or your derogatory term, "carebears." Carebears, who do not require a lawman because evil is not allowed to run rampant. Satisified, but not happy? Again, thank you for judging what makes an individual happy and what does not. I would be led to believe that freedom of choice makes one happy, and consequently leads to satisfaction. However, you would have us believe that their happiness is false...because it is not your belief, because it is you who is unhappy and unsatisfied.
If I had to choose one of your "categories" to which I belong, I would say that I belong to all three because I have the choice to be good, evil, or neutral. The decision is left to me, and to no one else. And whatever my decision, if you feel that somehow your playstyle is affected, then I believe it is you who will have to change or adapt, not me. Perhaps the carebear is really the winner because they are self-governing.
And so, feel proud of yourself as self-appointed protector of the "weak", and the glorious defender of what is good. But really, you're simply a warmonger who is not satisified with who you are unless you're attacking someone else. In my eyes, you're the "wolf".
(edited only for spelling corrections)
excellent post.
puts everything in perspective. Unfortunatley for the OP, Vertex and whoever else is supporting this post, I have some bad news to tell you. They wont listen. Ive tried it before, and they resort to the same argument over and over.
There are two arguments that carebears cling to.
The first and foremost that is usually posted in these forums is the "People dont think its fun" argument. They say that since your able to kill someone in FFA PvP it isnt "fun". Ganking people isnt fun. Getting killed with consequences isnt fun.
This has been proven wrong time and time again and they dont listen. The way a game is "fun" is because it is challenging, and once you complete that challenge, you get rewarded, thus its pretty fun. In these new MMO's, there is no challenge. There is NO CHALLENGE in fighting against a bot. As the person before me posted, he doesnt know why people pay to fight against a bot. I dont know either. The majority of players Ive talked to hate playing against bots and hate PvE in general because there is no challenge, thus it isnt fun.
In FFA PvP, it gets your adrenaline pumping, your playing against real people (multiplayer?) and you have to watch your back. It forces players into special tactics and makes each gaming expierience unique. Your not running the same boss a billion times. There is purpose to it - to stay alive. And most people ive talked to find PvP alot more fun than clicking on a bunch of bots.
The next argument is something even less full of substance, called the "your insulting us cause you support PvP, so your a brutal barbarian that doesnt care about people's feelings:"
For example, the first paragraph:
It's quite evident from your post that you're not a fan of these "carebears", as you so lovingly refer to them. It's also evident that for you to emphasize your position that you have decided to degrade anyone with a playstyle that differs from your own...be they evil, or carebear (I assume that you're of that "law and order" crowd, because it is the one in which you probably feel most full of yourself, and your post comes across as such).
You have this view of yourself as the equalizer...the great cowboy who is out there policing the game world, and meting out justice. However, I'd be inclined to ask, "Who made you the judge?" If you exist to maintain this so-called "law and order", then surely evil must exist right there with you. And were evil not to exist, then there is no need for this "law", to combat a foe that is nonexistant. And so are born "citizens" as you would call them...or your derogatory term, "carebears." Carebears, who do not require a lawman because evil is not allowed to run rampant. Satisified, but not happy? Again, thank you for judging what makes an individual happy and what does not. I would be led to believe that freedom of choice makes one happy, and consequently leads to satisfaction. However, you would have us believe that their happiness is false...because it is not your belief, because it is you who is unhappy and unsatisfied.
This is a common tactic used on these forums. Saying that the PvP supporter is degrading anyone that doesnt agree with him sometimes even claiming because he likes to grief in game. Aboslutely stupid and hilarious.
The OP did not degrade anyone, he simply spoke the truth. The truth is, Carebears dont like challenges, they want IMMEDIATE satisfaction of becoming "the best", and are afraid of anything that may threaten that, including dying. Carebears promote ignorance, meaningless gameplay, a utopia world (there are no enemies, no looting, no death penalties), restricted game mechanics, and repetitve gaming. I will even daresay they promote grinding. They are paying to play with bots.
An insult is only taken not given. Think of it carebears....is it really insulting to say that carebears dont like to fight? It may be blunt, but its the truth...carebears dont like to fight, they want to be secure in their grinding for power, and call anyone "aggressive" or "mean" if they dont think otherwise. This is not an insult. It is just truth.
However you take it as insult. So what does that tell us?
You realize that you are the ones that truly lost. Youve lost the freedom of gaming to development companies that stick you in instances and say "okay kids, play with the bots" ALL THE TIME. That is what WoW is the culmination of - the carebears whining so much they made a utopia game. A game with no challenges and no point. Dare I say...boring? How many players have said that WoW is boring? Quite a bit.
So keep on throwing that cash away. Cause im keeping my money, thank you
-------------------------------------------
Steelarm, Doctor of MMO gaming, ethics, and ideas.
Oh no, Steelarm is here, get ready for epic quotes and bickering to the end of time with no end and purpose...yaaawn.....
We were zergrushed, thats what we were!
"...what's stopping somebody from coming up to you in real life and killing you on the spot? You certainly won't have a restricted zone there. Sure, they'll be dealt with in due time by the authorities, but shouldn't this be the best way to do PvP? Look to History or Modern Day. I like to think of MMORPGs not as games, but different worlds we the players get to explore."
Please to the person that posted this.. what I'm about to say isn't directed at you .. but at the idea.
This has got to be the dumbest thing I ever heard.
There isn't a hell of a lot that stops anyone from killing somebody. I mean you can be a 10th degree black belt in every martial arts style on the planet.. some guy with a rifle can still shoot you.. or run you down with a car.
The idea is more to the point..
How many murder say happen in the average year in the US.. compared to how many murders happened the first year in Ultima Online. You would see a pretty big lead to the UO murders.
In real life as the example given by you..
Someone kills my father (an example).
My father doesn't respawn at some shrine to get revenge.
I go kill not only the guy that kill him but his entire family (an example).
None of them are gonna respawn or get raised from the dead to get back at me.
In a "game" like UO the people die.. they respawn (as a generic term) and go right back to it. Even if you had perma death they would just start over and be back at it.
Yes you could be looted in UO... not only by players but by mobs. I had no less than 5 exact sets of the gear I used in my bank at all times. I always had crafters and I always used the stuff I made. If I found a nice magic item I sold it to another player. Money was never a problem and I always had vendor(s) up at my house.
Truthfully in UO if I died and got looted I lost nothing. I just got to the bank and resupplied myself and was good to go a few minutes later.
On a lucky day I'd kill the guy who looted me a bit later and get all my stuff back and his.
I loved when T2A opened because when I killed titans it was about a 50/50 chance to find a chest full of somebody elses gear. (remember people carried crap in a chest so theif wouldn't be able to take it. Just opened it on the side of the screen to access your stuff and magic locked it in your bag..)
Anyway...
The problem with games is that the "community" never has any real way to deal with griefers. Game companies mostly want us to govern ourselves. In the real world if you go on a murder spree and get caught... most likely you're not gonna respawn a few hours later to do it again.
Unless the glove doesn't fit of course (har har).
I don't think you can really compare games to real life. Most people want to be entertained. The issue is when someone else wants to inflict their entertainment on someone that isn't being entertained by it..
BurningPain and Steelarm, if you are not open for other people's views, then maybe you should not post here.
as I and other have told you many times before, NOT everybody is like you. diffrent people enjoy diffrent things. WE decide what we think is fun, not you. and we have decided, and we do NOT enjoy your hardcore pvp style.
Nothing has been proven wrong, stop making things up to "prove" your point steelarm. not everybody is like you, far from it. and thats the only thing that has been proven.
enjoy your games, we will enjoy ours.
That's a very good analogy, if you don't mind I'll just shamlessly copy it and use it to explain to my EVE corp members what makes EVE so good. I'm running a small corp to help out the younger players getting to grips with EVE and this will help a lot.
heed your own words.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
heed your own words.
I am open to other people's views and opinions, thank you.