Homosexuality IS NOT a sin.

Aelfinn · September 2006

Originally posted by OneMuslim

But according to you and nasica, here's what i have understood.
Einstien is a myth, he's a fairytale of the books.
Science is but a fairytale, and all of the researches done by scientists, recorded into books are tales told by fairies.
The only objection here is UNVERIFIABLE sources, well researched documents from a trusted source can be taken for fact. Nearly all of the manuscripts you are reffering to at this point pass that test
planes don't exist, because alot of people never saw planes.
you don't exist, because i never saw you, you're a fairytale on the intarweb.
No, because one or the other can go whatever the distance is neccesary and meet each other, you can go and see the planes yourself. Seeing something is not the only proof of existance in any case, on that note im dropping the subject.
evolution cannot exist, because no one can prove it, because no one saw anything evolving into something, different beaks = deafness as you describe it.
Wrong, we are having problems with it every single day Microorganisms evolve at a much faster pace than megacellular life. In fact, for the flu virus, it only takes a year to evolve into a new form resistant to last years vaccines
fossils explain nothing, because many people die while bending their knees to their chests, thus looking like cavemen, so fossils can explain nothing but a man dying from hunger probably.
You cannot mistake someone in that posture for a protohuman, the bone structure in the earlier cases make it difficult to impossible to stand up. And in the later ones, certain extreme differences are still prevalent.
at the end, evolution cannot be proven, and it can be disproven easily, how? like this.
evolution depends on random chance for anything to exist, in real life, there's nothing called random chance, why? look at it this way, how many times do you have to throw a glass of water on the ground for it to form 10 orgenized small glasses of water? 0% where's the random chance now?
You show that there is no random chance in one example, then declare that there is no random chance anywhere at all? That is far from reasonable.
Here's a better one, set a flat hard surface at a high angle. Drip a drop of water onto a particular spot and watch it run down. Wipe it dry and drip onto the same spot again. Ill bet you everything I own that you cannot make it go the same exact path twice, theres random chance for you.
that's only one example that totally destroys the evolution theory.
another one? you don't have a brain, because neither you not me have felt, tasted, touched, saw or heared your brain, you're brainless, therefore anything you think of or see cannot exist anyway.
As stated before, its not necessary for everyone in the world to have seen something. Millions have seen a persons brain located in the appropriate place in an organisms skull. He (i hope) is human, and therefore it is logical that he too will have a brain located inside of his head, just like every single other example of a human.
Before I go, heres something to think about, a scientist duplicated the conditions we believed Earth to be under billions of years ago, no oxygen, high concentrations of sulphur, etc. He was rewarded when basic protiens formed, protiens that form the basis of DNA in all modern life. Said protiens bonded with each other randomly when they got close, but of course none of these pairings had any meaning to them. When you have a billion or so years to wait though, random chance can come up with something.
Someone said to me once that god loves to work through others. Why can't evolution simply be the mechanism used to form us all, with HIM guiding every step? Heck, the creation stories in the old testament of the Bible are eerily close to the order in which life was supposedly created through evolution.

Unknown · September 2006

Originally posted by Gameloading
Word traveled fast in those times. Not to mention that obvious a lot of time is put in the Qur'an.

yes, the Qur'an was revleared piece by piece, for 23 years.

Also, as soon as you find the remains of the burning bush, as soon as you find the proof that a staff can turn into a snake, as soon as you can proof to me that water can split with magic, come back here.

these are part of something very old, they no longer exist to this day, but they have happened in the past, and that's it, but their effects still exist.

the archeologists have discovered the remains of the pharoa's army under the sea, and the body of the pharoa who drowned in the water, and both have confirmed the truth in the bible and the Qur'an.

ofcourse a lot of events are written in the Qur'an, it has a big part of history as well.

of course, but you on the other hand don't know what are the events written in the Qur'an :}

lets not forget the city that got destroyed because of homosexuality. there was a volcano close by, but no, it must have been god!

yes, and in the Qur'an it is said that it was destroyed by a Vulcano, and no one from that region has traveled there, so how did the prophet mohammad know about it? he never set foot in that area, in fact, he never traveled beyond the arabian peninsula, it must have been from God himself, because God has revealed how he exactly destroyed it, and the archeologists have confirmed it, and their leader, i forgot his name since european names are realy hard to remember hehe, he had the Qur'an with him, and he himself agreed with it.

also you have skipped one important point i have mentioned, forget about the history, what about the amound of science the Qur'an contains? you never replied to that, if you actually know any bit of the Qur'an, you will know what the Qur'an have said 1400 years ago, and what the advanced technologies have discovered, and both comply with each others, you can't deny it :} because it is Allah was the one who created you, it is Allah the one who gave you your mind and abilities, and it is Allah the one who blessed you with these resources, and it is you, the one who misuse these items to destroy and mislead.

Aelfinn · September 2006

Originally posted by ob1sr

Also, as soon as you find the remains of the burning bush, as soon as you find the proof that a staff can turn into a snake, as soon as you can proof to me that water can split with magic, come back here.
these are part of something very old, they no longer exist to this day, but they have happened in the past, and that's it, but their effects still exist.
the archeologists have discovered the remains of the pharoa's army under the sea, and the body of the pharoa who drowned in the water, and both have confirmed the truth in the bible and the Qur'an.

They found the remains of a couple of ships that sank carrying supplies, not any army and certainly no pharoah.

As to the rest of it, I regret I do not know enough about the Qu'ran to comment. Good luck anyways

Unknown · September 2006

Originally posted by Aelfinn

Originally posted by OneMuslim

But according to you and nasica, here's what i have understood.
Einstien is a myth, he's a fairytale of the books.
Science is but a fairytale, and all of the researches done by scientists, recorded into books are tales told by fairies.
The only objection here is UNVERIFIABLE sources, well researched documents from a trusted source can be taken for fact. Nearly all of the manuscripts you are reffering to at this point pass that test
a well researched document ( the Qur'an ) proves the existance of God :}
planes don't exist, because alot of people never saw planes.
you don't exist, because i never saw you, you're a fairytale on the intarweb.
No, because one or the other can go whatever the distance is neccesary and meet each other, you can go and see the planes yourself. Seeing something is not the only proof of existance in any case, on that note im dropping the subject.
why don't you go to the distance necessary to know God then?
evolution cannot exist, because no one can prove it, because no one saw anything evolving into something, different beaks = deafness as you describe it.
Wrong, we are having problems with it every single day Microorganisms evolve at a much faster pace than megacellular life. In fact, for the flu virus, it only takes a year to evolve into a new form resistant to last years vaccines
yes, but the flu virus doesn't grow more limbs, it just remains as it is, only changes shape to fool the vaccine, and i said before, this don't prove the evolution you believe in, this proves the evolution of Allah
fossils explain nothing, because many people die while bending their knees to their chests, thus looking like cavemen, so fossils can explain nothing but a man dying from hunger probably.
You cannot mistake someone in that posture for a protohuman, the bone structure in the earlier cases make it difficult to impossible to stand up. And in the later ones, certain extreme differences are still prevalent.
and at the same time, fossils of the same age were found to be standing stright.
at the end, evolution cannot be proven, and it can be disproven easily, how? like this.
evolution depends on random chance for anything to exist, in real life, there's nothing called random chance, why? look at it this way, how many times do you have to throw a glass of water on the ground for it to form 10 orgenized small glasses of water? 0% where's the random chance now?
You show that there is no random chance in one example, then declare that there is no random chance anywhere at all? That is far from reasonable.
Here's a better one, set a flat hard surface at a high angle. Drip a drop of water onto a particular spot and watch it run down. Wipe it dry and drip onto the same spot again. Ill bet you everything I own that you cannot make it go the same exact path twice, theres random chance for you.
no it's not random :} if you drop the droplets, by the same angle, by the same stability, it will walk the same path again.
besides this has nothing to do with the randomness i'm talking about, it is the randomness of the existance of things, not things walking on this.
that's only one example that totally destroys the evolution theory.
another one? you don't have a brain, because neither you not me have felt, tasted, touched, saw or heared your brain, you're brainless, therefore anything you think of or see cannot exist anyway.
As stated before, its not necessary for everyone in the world to have seen something. Millions have seen a persons brain located in the appropriate place in an organisms skull. He (i hope) is human, and therefore it is logical that he too will have a brain located inside of his head, just like every single other example of a human.
so why do all humans have brains? (with some abnormal conditions of course), where's the randomness into this?
Before I go, heres something to think about, a scientist duplicated the conditions we believed Earth to be under billions of years ago, no oxygen, high concentrations of sulphur, etc. He was rewarded when basic protiens formed, protiens that form the basis of DNA in all modern life. Said protiens bonded with each other randomly when they got close, but of course none of these pairings had any meaning to them. When you have a billion or so years to wait though, random chance can come up with something.
no meaning? who said DNA pairings has no meanings? go back to biology and see, as for the earth being high on sulphur, how did he know? did he see it? then how did it absorb the oxygen? how come you believe someone who has seen nothing, and has not been there, and yet he is just in books maybe, how come?
Someone said to me once that god loves to work through others. Why can't evolution simply be the mechanism used to form us all, with HIM guiding every step? Heck, the creation stories in the old testament of the Bible are eerily close to the order in which life was supposedly created through evolution.
thank you man, this is what the Qur'an teaches, [24] He is Allâh, the Creator, the Inventor of all things, the Bestower of forms. To Him belong the Best Names. All that is in the heavens and the earth glorify Him. And He is the All-Mighty, the All-Wise.
the inventor can also mean the evolver :} because in arabic, the word has few meanings.
so basically, he is the one, Allah, who creates things, and then maintain them, and form them to whatever they are, basically, he allows them to evolve, but in his way, not in darwin's way, we have been created humans, but we evolve based on the environment we live in.

Unknown · September 2006

Originally posted by Aelfinn

Originally posted by ob1sr

Also, as soon as you find the remains of the burning bush, as soon as you find the proof that a staff can turn into a snake, as soon as you can proof to me that water can split with magic, come back here.
these are part of something very old, they no longer exist to this day, but they have happened in the past, and that's it, but their effects still exist.
the archeologists have discovered the remains of the pharoa's army under the sea, and the body of the pharoa who drowned in the water, and both have confirmed the truth in the bible and the Qur'an.

They found the remains of a couple of ships that sank carrying supplies, not any army and certainly no pharoah.

As to the rest of it, I regret I do not know enough about the Qu'ran to comment. Good luck anyways

they found chariots, and the drawned pharoa, mummified, the chariots were at the bottom of the sea, why would they be there?

and the army certainly was eaten by fish and dissolved from the intense salt, and was brought ashore to be carried and mummified too.

Gameloading · September 2006

Originally posted by ob1sr

Originally posted by Gameloading
Word traveled fast in those times. Not to mention that obvious a lot of time is put in the Qur'an.
yes, the Qur'an was revleared piece by piece, for 23 years.

Also, as soon as you find the remains of the burning bush, as soon as you find the proof that a staff can turn into a snake, as soon as you can proof to me that water can split with magic, come back here.
these are part of something very old, they no longer exist to this day, but they have happened in the past, and that's it, but their effects still exist.
the archeologists have discovered the remains of the pharoa's army under the sea, and the body of the pharoa who drowned in the water, and both have confirmed the truth in the bible and the Qur'an.

their effects still exist? Nobody ever confirmed that it happened the way it is discribed in religion.

ofcourse a lot of events are written in the Qur'an, it has a big part of history as well.
of course, but you on the other hand don't know what are the events written in the Qur'an :}

but I do know things that can happend and don't happend.

lets not forget the city that got destroyed because of homosexuality. there was a volcano close by, but no, it must have been god!
yes, and in the Qur'an it is said that it was destroyed by a Vulcano, and no one from that region has traveled there, so how did the prophet mohammad know about it? he never set foot in that area, in fact, he never traveled beyond the arabian peninsula, it must have been from God himself, because God has revealed how he exactly destroyed it, and the archeologists have confirmed it, and their leader, i forgot his name since european names are realy hard to remember hehe, he had the Qur'an with him, and he himself agreed with it.
as I said, word travelled fast in that days. its obvious that the prophet heards word of the destroyed city. that seems a lot more likely to me then that god destroyed a city because of homosexuality. in fact, I find it very unlikely that an ENTIRE city is full of homosexuals.

also you have skipped one important point i have mentioned, forget about the history, what about the amound of science the Qur'an contains? you never replied to that, if you actually know any bit of the Qur'an, you will know what the Qur'an have said 1400 years ago, and what the advanced technologies have discovered, and both comply with each others, you can't deny it :} because it is Allah was the one who created you, it is Allah the one who gave you your mind and abilities, and it is Allah the one who blessed you with these resources, and it is you, the one who misuse these items to destroy and mislead.

Unknown · September 2006

Originally posted by Gameloading

Originally posted by ob1sr

Originally posted by Gameloading
Word traveled fast in those times. Not to mention that obvious a lot of time is put in the Qur'an.
yes, the Qur'an was revleared piece by piece, for 23 years.

Also, as soon as you find the remains of the burning bush, as soon as you find the proof that a staff can turn into a snake, as soon as you can proof to me that water can split with magic, come back here.
these are part of something very old, they no longer exist to this day, but they have happened in the past, and that's it, but their effects still exist.
the archeologists have discovered the remains of the pharoa's army under the sea, and the body of the pharoa who drowned in the water, and both have confirmed the truth in the bible and the Qur'an.

their effects still exist? Nobody ever confirmed that it happened the way it is discribed in religion.

ofcourse a lot of events are written in the Qur'an, it has a big part of history as well.
of course, but you on the other hand don't know what are the events written in the Qur'an :}

but I do know things that can happend and don't happend.
what?

lets not forget the city that got destroyed because of homosexuality. there was a volcano close by, but no, it must have been god!
yes, and in the Qur'an it is said that it was destroyed by a Vulcano, and no one from that region has traveled there, so how did the prophet mohammad know about it? he never set foot in that area, in fact, he never traveled beyond the arabian peninsula, it must have been from God himself, because God has revealed how he exactly destroyed it, and the archeologists have confirmed it, and their leader, i forgot his name since european names are realy hard to remember hehe, he had the Qur'an with him, and he himself agreed with it.
as I said, word travelled fast in that days. its obvious that the prophet heards word of the destroyed city. that seems a lot more likely to me then that god destroyed a city because of homosexuality. in fact, I find it very unlikely that an ENTIRE city is full of homosexuals.
believe it or not, they were a city full of homosexuals, because that was their life, also as words spreading, do you have absolutely no idea of the time between sodom's destruction and the existance of the porphets jesus or Mohammad? it's alot, hundreds, if not thousands of years, you simply can't rely on words, specially that only very few people were saved by Allah from that destruction, and they wrote nothing about it, if they did, they were surely lost, and the city was buried under the earth, then how come the word spread? from where? how? when?

also you have skipped one important point i have mentioned, forget about the history, what about the amound of science the Qur'an contains? you never replied to that, if you actually know any bit of the Qur'an, you will know what the Qur'an have said 1400 years ago, and what the advanced technologies have discovered, and both comply with each others, you can't deny it :} because it is Allah was the one who created you, it is Allah the one who gave you your mind and abilities, and it is Allah the one who blessed you with these resources, and it is you, the one who misuse these items to destroy and mislead.

yes, and in the Qur'an it is said that it was destroyed by a Vulcano, and no one from that region has traveled there, so how did the prophet mohammad know about it? he never set foot in that area, in fact, he never traveled beyond the arabian peninsula, it must have been from God himself, because God has revealed how he exactly destroyed it, and the archeologists have confirmed it, and their leader, i forgot his name since european names are realy hard to remember hehe, he had the Qur'an with him, and he himself agreed with it.
as I said, word travelled fast in that days. its obvious that the prophet heards word of the destroyed city. that seems a lot more likely to me then that god destroyed a city because of homosexuality. in fact, I find it very unlikely that an ENTIRE city is full of homosexuals.
believe it or not, they were a city full of homosexuals, because that was their life, also as words spreading, do you have absolutely no idea of the time between sodom's destruction and the existance of the porphets jesus or Mohammad? it's alot, hundreds, if not thousands of years, you simply can't rely on words, specially that only very few people were saved by Allah from that destruction, and they wrote nothing about it, if they did, they were surely lost, and the city was buried under the earth, then how come the word spread? from where? how? when?

also you have skipped one important point i have mentioned, forget about the history, what about the amound of science the Qur'an contains? you never replied to that, if you actually know any bit of the Qur'an, you will know what the Qur'an have said 1400 years ago, and what the advanced technologies have discovered, and both comply with each others, you can't deny it :} because it is Allah was the one who created you, it is Allah the one who gave you your mind and abilities, and it is Allah the one who blessed you with these resources, and it is you, the one who misuse these items to destroy and mislead.

Aelfinn · September 2006

Originally posted by ob1sr

they found chariots, and the drawned pharoa, mummified, the chariots were at the bottom of the sea, why would they be there?
and the army certainly was eaten by fish and dissolved from the intense salt, and was brought ashore to be carried and mummified too.

You cannot possibly find anything mummified underwater, mummification is the removal of all liquids! High salt concentration additionally acts as a preservative, its not going to dissolve anything. As to the chariots, Like I said they found supply ships, the chariots were being transported in pieces. to where? who knows. The bodies of the army would have left bones, lots of them, no matter how many were carried ashore.

Now if your saying they found a pharoah who had drowned to death but was then mummified, he could have drowned anywhere. Heck, he might have choked to death on a piece of food and with the dessication of the body, they wouldnt have been able to tell the difference!

Gameloading · September 2006

Originally posted by ob1sr

Originally posted by Gameloading

Originally posted by ob1sr

Originally posted by Gameloading
Word traveled fast in those times. Not to mention that obvious a lot of time is put in the Qur'an.
yes, the Qur'an was revleared piece by piece, for 23 years.

Also, as soon as you find the remains of the burning bush, as soon as you find the proof that a staff can turn into a snake, as soon as you can proof to me that water can split with magic, come back here.
these are part of something very old, they no longer exist to this day, but they have happened in the past, and that's it, but their effects still exist.
the archeologists have discovered the remains of the pharoa's army under the sea, and the body of the pharoa who drowned in the water, and both have confirmed the truth in the bible and the Qur'an.

their effects still exist? Nobody ever confirmed that it happened the way it is discribed in religion.

ofcourse a lot of events are written in the Qur'an, it has a big part of history as well.
of course, but you on the other hand don't know what are the events written in the Qur'an :}

but I do know things that can happend and don't happend.
what?

lets not forget the city that got destroyed because of homosexuality. there was a volcano close by, but no, it must have been god!

yes, and in the Qur'an it is said that it was destroyed by a Vulcano, and no one from that region has traveled there, so how did the prophet mohammad know about it? he never set foot in that area, in fact, he never traveled beyond the arabian peninsula, it must have been from God himself, because God has revealed how he exactly destroyed it, and the archeologists have confirmed it, and their leader, i forgot his name since european names are realy hard to remember hehe, he had the Qur'an with him, and he himself agreed with it.
as I said, word travelled fast in that days. its obvious that the prophet heards word of the destroyed city. that seems a lot more likely to me then that god destroyed a city because of homosexuality. in fact, I find it very unlikely that an ENTIRE city is full of homosexuals.
believe it or not, they were a city full of homosexuals, because that was their life, also as words spreading, do you have absolutely no idea of the time between sodom's destruction and the existance of the porphets jesus or Mohammad? it's alot, hundreds, if not thousands of years, you simply can't rely on words, specially that only very few people were saved by Allah from that destruction, and they wrote nothing about it, if they did, they were surely lost, and the city was buried under the earth, then how come the word spread? from where? how? when?

also you have skipped one important point i have mentioned, forget about the history, what about the amound of science the Qur'an contains? you never replied to that, if you actually know any bit of the Qur'an, you will know what the Qur'an have said 1400 years ago, and what the advanced technologies have discovered, and both comply with each others, you can't deny it :} because it is Allah was the one who created you, it is Allah the one who gave you your mind and abilities, and it is Allah the one who blessed you with these resources, and it is you, the one who misuse these items to destroy and mislead.

yes, and in the Qur'an it is said that it was destroyed by a Vulcano, and no one from that region has traveled there, so how did the prophet mohammad know about it? he never set foot in that area, in fact, he never traveled beyond the arabian peninsula, it must have been from God himself, because God has revealed how he exactly destroyed it, and the archeologists have confirmed it, and their leader, i forgot his name since european names are realy hard to remember hehe, he had the Qur'an with him, and he himself agreed with it.
as I said, word travelled fast in that days. its obvious that the prophet heards word of the destroyed city. that seems a lot more likely to me then that god destroyed a city because of homosexuality. in fact, I find it very unlikely that an ENTIRE city is full of homosexuals.
believe it or not, they were a city full of homosexuals, because that was their life, also as words spreading, do you have absolutely no idea of the time between sodom's destruction and the existance of the porphets jesus or Mohammad? it's alot, hundreds, if not thousands of years, you simply can't rely on words, specially that only very few people were saved by Allah from that destruction, and they wrote nothing about it, if they did, they were surely lost, and the city was buried under the earth, then how come the word spread? from where? how? when?

also you have skipped one important point i have mentioned, forget about the history, what about the amound of science the Qur'an contains? you never replied to that, if you actually know any bit of the Qur'an, you will know what the Qur'an have said 1400 years ago, and what the advanced technologies have discovered, and both comply with each others, you can't deny it :} because it is Allah was the one who created you, it is Allah the one who gave you your mind and abilities, and it is Allah the one who blessed you with these resources, and it is you, the one who misuse these items to destroy and mislead.

Look at what you just said.

but it would be very likely that people escaped the volcano corruption, and that they brough out word. also, don't bring in allah/god created us people, that has never been proven.

Unknown · September 2006

Originally posted by Gameloading

Look at what you just said.

but it would be very likely that people escaped the volcano corruption, and that they brough out word. also, don't bring in allah/god created us people, that has never been proven.

as i said, no one escaped the erruption except the prophet Lut and whoever was with him, and they were very few people, between 30-70, no one else made it, and the difference of years between the prophet Lut and Jesus or mohammad is hundreds if not thousands of years.

but forget about that, this kind of history is argueable, but what about the science that exists within the Qur'an? why are you ignoring this point? why do you keep running away from answering this one?

as i said, no one escaped the erruption except the prophet Lut and whoever was with him, and they were very few people, between 30-70, no one else made it, and the difference of years between the prophet Lut and Jesus or mohammad is hundreds if not thousands of years.

but forget about that, this kind of history is argueable, but what about the science that exists within the Qur'an? why are you ignoring this point? why do you keep running away from answering this one?

Unknown · September 2006

Originally posted by Aelfinn

Originally posted by ob1sr

they found chariots, and the drawned pharoa, mummified, the chariots were at the bottom of the sea, why would they be there?
and the army certainly was eaten by fish and dissolved from the intense salt, and was brought ashore to be carried and mummified too.

You cannot possibly find anything mummified underwater, mummification is the removal of all liquids! High salt concentration additionally acts as a preservative, its not going to dissolve anything. As to the chariots, Like I said they found supply ships, the chariots were being transported in pieces. to where? who knows. The bodies of the army would have left bones, lots of them, no matter how many were carried ashore.

Now if your saying they found a pharoah who had drowned to death but was then mummified, he could have drowned anywhere. Heck, he might have choked to death on a piece of food and with the dessication of the body, they wouldnt have been able to tell the difference!

then you know nothing of what has actually been discovered, you're saying ships, but i've never heared of any ships, i think you're mixing the story of the prophet Noah and Moses here.

please do more research before you spread misinformation, this is my last arguement with you.

Unknown · September 2006

http://www.arkdiscovery.com/red_sea_crossing.htm

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=33168

http://www.seriouslythough.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=486

confirmed?

Cause

“We find evidence, believe it or not, on the deep ocean floor. The tsunamis actually scraped across the bottom of the ocean floor in the Mediterranean and disturbed the sediment. We can find that sediment. That gives us some indication of the directions they went. The computer model showed us waves radiating out all over the Mediterranean, reaching the Nile Delta.”

A Tsunami or Megatsunami would cause water from the sea, and from connecting rivers and lakes to recede temporarily, see Signs of an approaching tsunami. The Israelites could not at all easily have crossed the Red Sea in the two hours that the waters would have receded. In any case Santorini is in the Mediterranean, and the Red Sea is not. They could however have crossed a smaller inlet, cove, lake or river. Later the returning wave would easily have had the force to destroy the Egyptian army. A Tsunami at Mindoro in 1994 entered a lake roughly a mile inland proving this is possible.^[8]

^{that was from WIKI}

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passage_of_the_Red_Sea

Adreal · September 2006

I choose freedom from guilt and intimidation.

Fear is to keep us from pain. Pain is to keep us or others from destroying our bodies. Guilt is to keep us from destroying others as well as ourselves. Some say ignorance is bliss; that may be because with knowledge comes the awareness of the path of destruction you are being led down and the obligation to act.

It's a bit more believable then appearing out of thin air...

You're trying to simplify the matter which is exactly what OneMuslim did to you. Never oversimplify; I doubt that there is a simple explanation for the formation of the universe either way. Of course I'm perfect, so I can dictate what you can or can't do. Jk. Just pointing something out in all my self-righteousness.

what about the amound of science the Qur'an contains?

Like what?

Gameloading · September 2006

Originally posted by ob1sr

Originally posted by Gameloading

Look at what you just said.

but it would be very likely that people escaped the volcano corruption, and that they brough out word. also, don't bring in allah/god created us people, that has never been proven.

as i said, no one escaped the erruption except the prophet Lut and whoever was with him, and they were very few people, between 30-70, no one else made it, and the difference of years between the prophet Lut and Jesus or mohammad is hundreds if not thousands of years.
but forget about that, this kind of history is argueable, but what about the science that exists within the Qur'an? why are you ignoring this point? why do you keep running away from answering this one?

as i said, no one escaped the erruption except the prophet Lut and whoever was with him, and they were very few people, between 30-70, no one else made it, and the difference of years between the prophet Lut and Jesus or mohammad is hundreds if not thousands of years.

You have NO proof that nobody escaped the erruption, in fact, you have no proof that the prophet lut ever came to that city. it doesn't matter if there was a diffrence of years between the eruption and Jesus/Mohammed, we also know what happened thousands of years ago. in fact, whole religion should prove my point. todays religion is also nothing more then word of mouth.

but forget about that, this kind of history is argueable, but what about the science that exists within the Qur'an? why are you ignoring this point? why do you keep running away from answering this one?

I'm ignoring it, because I don't know what your talking about. if you mean the civilizations had advanced technology which has been written about in the Qur'An, then sure, why not? I never said everything in the Qur'an is fake, I said the part where those miricales happen are fake, and some rules (not all, I personally think many of the rules of the Qur'An are good) should not be taken serious, which I explained in another thread.

methane47 · September 2006

Originally posted by paade
be great to live with your head up in your spiritual ass. I wish I could blindly believe 2000+ yr old fairytale but sadly I believe more what I can actually see or experience myself.

Really? You've Seen or experienced Evolution? REALLY?! wow... So was it bobo the monkies uncle that turned into your father? or was it Kong?

MAN someone who has experienced Evolution... STOP THE PRESSES!!!

Tamalan · September 2006

Ok Methane, this is interesting...

Your always the first to post links to new science/technology stuff, but you dont believe in science when it comes to evolution?

hmmm... :P

Khuzarrz · September 2006

Woah... I'm resigning from trying to read through this thread... I leave you guys for TWO days and the post count has more than doubled -_-

methane47 · September 2006

Originally posted by Tamalan

Ok Methane, this is interesting...
Your always the first to post links to new science/technology stuff, but you dont believe in science when it comes to evolution?
hmmm... :P

Cuz I love science... Loved it since the day I was born... Love biology, physics... Chem makes me puke when you reach the bio-chem stage but on a whole Science is really interesting to me...

It's just when people accuse religious people of blindly following religion when they dont even realize that is exactly what they are doing with Science...

People dont realize that Science isn't truth It's the "Best explanation" of natural phenomenon... Humans could be completely wrong with everything... But that doesn't matter... People still say OMG religious people are just simple/closed minded fools who dont know anythhing.. When that is exactly what They are as well...

Example: I look in my pocket and My wallet is gone... Science will tell you you forgot it, Religion will tell you someone stole it... Both are possible but Since science is the word of man... they believe it without question..

The problem with science is that SCIENCE ITSELF VALIDATes itself.. Science says something is true because Science says it's true.... It could possibly be wrong but people dont think that way... Because a man in a white suit told them so.....

I have no problem with Science because Science is just another religion... The only thing i disagree with is blind belief in bigbang and primordial soup.....

Tamalan · September 2006

You see, I have trouble with blind belief in anything, be it science or religion, but i as a non-religious, unbaptised 'heathan' always fall to the side that makes the most practical sense (to me).

Evolution just makes more sense (in my opinion) than a big invisible man in a nightshirt wiggling his fingers.

But im always prepared to be wrong

on a side note, which is amusingly nearer the original subject of this thread, isnt the basis for most if not all religions love, tolerance and compassion? meaning all the religion based gay bashers are pretty much crapping on their own belief system?

The clouds part and God finally appears to speak to mankind...

"You did WHAT in may name? you arseholes, you got it all wrong"

Tam

Gameloading · September 2006

Originally posted by Tamalan

You see, I have trouble with blind belief in anything, be it science or religion, but i as a non-religious, unbaptised 'heathan' always fall to the side that makes the most practical sense (to me).
Evolution just makes more sense (in my opinion) than a big invisible man in a nightshirt wiggling his fingers.
But im always prepared to be wrong
on a side note, which is amusingly nearer the original subject of this thread, isnt the basis for most if not all religions love, tolerance and compassion? meaning all the religion based gay bashers are pretty much crapping on their own belief system?
The clouds part and God finally appears to speak to mankind...
"You did WHAT in may name? you arseholes, you got it all wrong"
Tam

that would actually look pretty funny!

methane47 · September 2006

Originally posted by Tamalan

You see, I have trouble with blind belief in anything, be it science or religion, but i as a non-religious, unbaptised 'heathan' always fall to the side that makes the most practical sense (to me).
Evolution just makes more sense (in my opinion) than a big invisible man in a nightshirt wiggling his fingers.
But im always prepared to be wrong
on a side note, which is amusingly nearer the original subject of this thread, isnt the basis for most if not all religions love, tolerance and compassion? meaning all the religion based gay bashers are pretty much crapping on their own belief system?
The clouds part and God finally appears to speak to mankind...
"You did WHAT in may name? you arseholes, you got it all wrong"
Tam

I actually wouldn't be suprised at all if that happened... The bible for one teaches us to hate the sin but love the sinner... Which atheist can truthfully disagree with that? Religion does teach us love, tolerance, and compassion but sadly Religious people are still just "people" they are in no way perfect and are subject to the same trials, troubles, pressures, problems, conflicts as everyone else...

I for one have yet to meet a "gay basher" or actually see any "gay bashing" That is probably since I'm not gay and i also dont really fraternize with people who aren't tolerant to everyone..... (EDIT: I'm not saying it doesn't happen... Just saying those aren't the type of people I hang around with) But I have seen first hand atheists physically attacking religious people and I have also see some atheists do some very bad things... Like we were having a march along a road and some guy comes and spits in the pasters face...

And I dont know if you noticed But This thread wasn't about Religious people bashing gay people.. .This thread was about one guy saying that what we believe in Is wrong and bashing our religions....

Tamalan · September 2006

yup i did notice, but that is why i said my sidetrack was nearer the original subject, its just that most of the more aggressive and intolerant posters have been, ironically, by the people who say they follow a religion.

Hence my post about Gods appearance.

Peace

Tam

freethinker · September 2006

It's just when people accuse religious people of blindly following religion when they dont even realize that is exactly what they are doing with Science...

lets see if this is the case by examining both science and religion.

Science is knowledge or system of knowledge, attained by verifiable means.

Religion is a system of social coherence based on a common group of beliefs

right away we can tell the two aren't even comparable since they don't address the same thing.

People dont realize that Science isn't truth It's the "Best explanation" of natural phenomenon... Humans could be completely wrong with everything...
exactly.

But that doesn't matter... People still say OMG religious people are just simple/closed minded fools who dont know anythhing.. When that is exactly what They are as well...

but here's the difference ....and why people who use science aren't as simple/close minded as those who use religion when it comes to finding truth. Religous people start out with a preconceived belief of god, at this point they look for explanations based on god. However, god is not a belief gained by examining the evidence.

Above you correctly stated that science is only the best explanation of a phenomenon...not absolute truth. However, religion (or more specifically, god belief) IS an absolute statement of truth. Believing in god is the bedrock of religious belief and it must remain true, otherwise most conclusions drawn from that premise will collapse.

In short, God Must Exist Absolutley.

This is why religous thought is actually more close minded than scientific thought which does not claim to hold a monopoly on truth.

Example: I look in my pocket and My wallet is gone... Science will tell you you forgot it, Religion will tell you someone stole it...

Not necessarily. If you bumped into someone in a crowded mall, then notice your wallet missiong, then science (more precisely, inductive reasoning) will lead you to believe someone stole it.

The problem with science is that SCIENCE ITSELF VALIDATes itself.. Science says something is true because Science says it's true.... It could possibly be wrong but people dont think that way...

I'm not sure which people you're talking about, so I'll just stay with the facts.
Science is validated by empirical evidence, demonstration, induction, etc...
Religion validates itself because rests on the foundation of something that is neither explainable, demonstratable, etc...

I have no problem with Science because Science is just another religion... The only thing i disagree with is blind belief in bigbang and primordial soup.....

See above why science is not a religion.

paade · September 2006

Originally posted by methane47

Originally posted by paade
be great to live with your head up in your spiritual ass. I wish I could blindly believe 2000+ yr old fairytale but sadly I believe more what I can actually see or experience myself.

Really? You've Seen or experienced Evolution? REALLY?! wow... So was it bobo the monkies uncle that turned into your father? or was it Kong?

MAN someone who has experienced Evolution... STOP THE PRESSES!!!

wow, your stupidity really shines through here. And yes, in a way i have experienced evolution, in a small scale. Ive worked in a bio-lab with micro-organisms and seen the evolution in practice, when microbes develop a resistance to some element, or in another words adapt to a changing environment. No, i havent seen monkey turn into a man, but im willing to accept what scientist have come to realise by studying the world around us.

Its just that you religious people will never accept the notion that people might be just another animal, just one with larger brains. Noooo, you have to come up with some bearded dude sitting on a cloud making galaxies. I know its hard to accept that just maybe youre nothing special in the universe.

Science is not a religion, science is based on results, results that can be repeated anytime. Thats the beauty of it, if im sceptic about anything that some science guy in white jacket tells, i can always try to find whether it is true or false. Religion is based on rumours, ancient writings and more than anything, imagination. You cant prove shit about it.
Please stop comparing science as just another religion, it really doesnt make you look good.

Zerogenum · September 2006

Originally posted by reavo

Homosexuality IS NOT a sin.

My religion (Unitarian/Universalist) does not say homosexuality is a sin.
Unitarian Universalist Association
So if there are any homosexuals who are finding the Christian/Muslim religions to be bit abusive, I welcome you to read about what we stand for and believe.
We are the religion that such great thinkers as Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin, John Q. Adams, Paul Revere, Ralph W. Emerson, T.S. Eliot, Alexander Graham Bell, and Isaac Newton chose to follow.
As a matter of fact, if you want to see more great Unitarian/Universalists, check out this list...
[ American Politics ] [ Arts & Humanities ] [ Education ] [ More Politics ] [ Humanitarians ] [ Philosophy ] [ Science, Medicine ] [ Social Reform ] [ UU Builders ] [ And More ] [ Women ]
Don't let these people with their "hell/damnation" and stories of ancient times and manuscripts scare you into a life of guilt and loneliness. You are a good person and you deserve the love and companionship that God put you on your path to pursue. You are a welcome in my church and you are welcome in my community of forward thinking folk.
Also, anyone feeling the constraints of ancient religions and their lack of applicability to modern times whether in politics, philosophy, or personal growth, I also invite you to look into our religion. We welcome all ideas and encourage self growth and personal spiritual realization. We also welcome the freedom of ideas and the practice of independence and self determination. You're free to be you and be proud of who you are with us. And we will help you by promoting you on your journey and show you the encouragement you deserve to find your own way to God.
Live in freedom from fear with us.

Do not make any mistake of this propaganda piece folks. STUDIES HAVE PROVEN THAT WHEN HOMO MARRIAGE IS MADE LEGAL people STOP getting MARRIED. KIDS FORGET what MARRIAGE is for. They LOVE TO TALK WITH EMOTION AND NEVER DEAL WITH FACTS, thats how propaganda works. Its a CULTURAL CANCER of DEVIANTS who are PERVERSE as it has been taught for MILENNIA for GOOD REASON.

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Homosexuality IS NOT a sin.

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