Nasa analyzed the facts down to a 1% margain of error. Its about 13.7 billion years old.
Creation happened.
Thanks to nasa and Wernher von Braun helping us get to space we figured a lot out.
Space travel is so badass.
Not necessarily, the mass that composes the galaxies around us didnt always exist in its current form. We have no way whatsoever at this point to tell what happened before then. What we do know is that the matter in question is arranged in the form of a hollow sphere, constantly expanding. This leaves us with a couple of options:
1. classic big bang: One massive explosion several billion years ago, once the matter from it has cooled off, thats it
2. closed universe: At some point in the future, matter will be pulled back to the center where it came from. Followed by another big bang and the repeat of a cycle.
3. rippling universe: The universe always existed and had no true beginning. An infinite number of expansions of mass have already happened, and its not going to end either. Each "big bang"occured inside of the other, the matter formed by each constantly expands, looking a bit like ripples in a pond.
#3 is the only one we might be able to confirm for absolutely certain before we all die, by looking outwards for signs of the last expanding ring of matter, if its there, it wont be easy to spot. The distances alone are an issue, but by now every single source of light (stars) would have long burned out.
No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee. Hemingway
Originally posted by //\//\oo Yeah, let's assume somebody did something for us and neglect the need to research and understand the universe ourselves. People shouldn't humor these idiots: Their "it is too complex, therefore something else created it and we don't need to undertsand it" drivel is like a child's "just cause" rationalization; it is a copout for lacking the necessary mental capacity to construct the universe and a rationalization for their own ignorance. Ever seen a physicist that believed entirely in creationism? Kids should neither be taught evolution nor creationism, but given the bases for chemistry, physics and some rudimentary biological properties of organisms; intelligence will lead them to their own conjectures and maybe the inductive idiocy keeping creationism afloat will die with rational choice.
This is the most ignorant statement I have seen by someone trying to be smart. It shows a complete lack of comprehension when it comes to understanding how and why people believe in religeon. Blatently stating that you must be an idiot to believe anything outside the realm of science is your own "copout." And then your solution is to only teach science in school so that you can eradicate creationism? That's an interesting concept, maybe we could eliminate a lot of other things we don't like too while we're at it. Maybe, in your school, we could teach only math and science. Forget those pesky arts and humanities, they don't provide any substantial benefit to child development or society.
Originally posted by Nihilanth If this is true, and this absolute power (God) can manifest itself from nothing, then why can't a universe? Why must "God" manifest itself first, and then create the universe? Why can't the universe itself spring forth from nothing?
Because the universe is around us, and we can understand many things about it by studying it.
God however is not around us, but his creation is :} therefore we can't study God himself, but we can study his creation, therefore understand the power of God.
And for a universe to create itself, it needs power to control itself, the universe can't control itself, why would there be space explosions if it can control itself? therefore someone has purposely placed the universe around us so we would be stunned by it's beauty, and no, all of these explosions are not random :} they are yet another small bangs to make beautiful scenes for NASA to take screens of.
Religions like christianity Tell you that our minds arnt made to think outside of the box, like that verse that says right now we see dimly like through a window but after we die we we see it as it is.
Basicaly to me thats kinda logical for agnostics and would have to be something to consider - If God is real then he can do what he wants right? Including not alowing us to understand evarything.
Well, God indeed allowed you to only understand what you and your mind's capacity can understand, if you understood everything, why would you need God anymore?
as for christianity, don't forget that the bible has undergone many language translations, you're not sure if that verse was written like that or not
But you dont realy need to study hardcore to try to understand the simple truth , all you have to do is look outside
true
and see that evarything has inteligent desighn in it. I'm agnostic right now that may change in the future i dont know but all I know is i want to be free, i dont want be bound by a God who would take away my choice's God didn't take away your choices, the best example is that you are agnostic right now, and you said yourself, you might change, that's your choice, binding yourself to God doesn't limit your choices at all, but increase them :} because you will understand many other things, things that you never knew or heared about.
and not allow me to understand the total truth about evarything and follow him by blind faith. I've used faith and seen some small miricles but if God is that kind of God which makes us feel like hes not there then i can use logic like - Faith -Hope- Dreams - are these connected Somehow? Are the secret truths in this ? Yes, take it as simple as this, what does it say in the bible, old and new testiments, and the Qur'an, and the Zaboor ( what's left of it ) ? This life is but a test, it's limited, if you worship God and be Good, in all it's meaning, you'll be rewarded with Paradise, a place in which you'll understand everything you couldn't, and live eternally enjoying yourself and your surroundings, and have kids wives and gardens etc etc, so why would i want to throw something like this, for trying to understand something i cannot? of course science is important, because God obliges us to learn, in the Qur'an, and if you go back a thousand years in history, the makers of chemistry, biology, math and physics were muslims, people who were so religious, people who understood the purpose of their lives and were very devout, those were the creators of science.
Originally posted by OneMuslim Because the universe is around us, and we can understand many things about it by studying it. God however is not around us, but his creation is :} therefore we can't study God himself, but we can study his creation, therefore understand the power of God. And for a universe to create itself, it needs power to control itself, the universe can't control itself, why would there be space explosions if it can control itself? therefore someone has purposely placed the universe around us so we would be stunned by it's beauty, and no, all of these explosions are not random :} they are yet another small bangs to make beautiful scenes for NASA to take screens of.
How do you know that the universe needs controll for something to appear? You are assuming something fundamental that no human being can possibly know for sure one way or the other.
Bear in mind, Im not knocking your beliefs, simply making a point. In fact, I wish I still could believe in the religion I grew up with, I'd be happier with myself and the world around me.
No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee. Hemingway
Originally posted by baff If you are trying to rationalise faith, you have missed the point already. Faith is belief without evidence.
In Islam, there's no faith or belief without evidence.
[22] Had there been therein (in the heavens and the earth) âlihah (gods) besides Allâh, then verily both would have been ruined. Glorified is Allâh, the Lord of the Throne, (High is He) above all that (evil) they associate with Him! - Chapter 21
[24] Or have they taken for worship (other) âlihah (gods) besides Him? Say: "Bring your proof: " This (the Qur'ân) is the Reminder for those with me and the Reminder for those before me. But most of them know not the Truth, so they are averse. - Chapter 21
[75] And We shall take out from every nation a witness, and We shall say: "Bring your proof." Then they shall know that the truth is with Allâh (Alone), and the lies (false gods) which they invented will disappear from them. - Chaptre 28
These are 2 examples only, So bring your proof :}
In Islam, there's no faith without proof my friends, that's in christianity only.
Originally posted by Aelfinn Originally posted by OneMuslim Because the universe is around us, and we can understand many things about it by studying it. God however is not around us, but his creation is :} therefore we can't study God himself, but we can study his creation, therefore understand the power of God. And for a universe to create itself, it needs power to control itself, the universe can't control itself, why would there be space explosions if it can control itself? therefore someone has purposely placed the universe around us so we would be stunned by it's beauty, and no, all of these explosions are not random :} they are yet another small bangs to make beautiful scenes for NASA to take screens of.
How do you know that the universe needs controll for something to appear? You are assuming something fundamental that no human being can possibly know for sure one way or the other.
Bear in mind, Im not knocking your beliefs, simply making a point. In fact, I wish I still could believe in the religion I grew up with, I'd be happier with myself and the world around me.
I'm gonna ask you something simple, can anything you know, have experienced, felt, touched, exist without someone creating it? or placing it there?
if your answer is No, then there you go, who placed the universe? considering that the universe don't talk to us, can't think for itself, and can't comprehend and what's happening, proof is? if it can, it would avoid more explosions.
But, you'll ask me, then who placed God there? my answer is, God is omnipotent, he is the one with super power beyond your comprehension, how he existed we can never know, but he promised to tell us if we worship him with the way he want us to wroship him with, and after entering paradise too.
Originally posted by OneMuslim in the Qur'an, and if you go back a thousand years in history, the makers of chemistry, biology, math and physics were muslims,
I think you gave too much credit to islam there Onemuslim..... The first scientists and scholors were no doubt Religious priests, monks, shamen.. so forth.. But to say that the first were muslims is asking for a foot and taking an island..
What's your Wu Name? Donovan --> Wu Name = Violent Knight Methane47 --> Wu Name = Thunderous Leader "Some people call me the walking plank, 'cuz any where you go... Death is right behind you.." <i>ME<i>
Originally posted by methane47 Originally posted by OneMuslim in the Qur'an, and if you go back a thousand years in history, the makers of chemistry, biology, math and physics were muslims,
I think you gave too much credit to islam there Onemuslim..... The first scientists and scholors were no doubt Religious priests, monks, shamen.. so forth.. But to say that the first were muslims is asking for a foot and taking an island..
The creator of Aljebra, Al-Khawarezmy, a Muslim mathmatician.
The creator of Biology, Jaber Bin Hayyan, a Muslim Doctor.
There are a lot more whom i don't know or remember.
Even back before the Americas was discovered, europeans sent their children to study in the muslims' universities, and they were so proud when their children spoke arabic, ask any well informed fair european.
That concern of yours, Nihilanth, isn't anything new as far as I'm concerned. Someone already answered it for me, and whether or not it is a copout (Mod), the point of God - the Creator of the universe - existing outside of his creation is logically infallible unless science rightfully then moves to discount the presence of time as a dimension of this universe.
I have a question though - not rhetorical but a real one which I'd like to be answered. Maybe a few questions actually. How large was our sun at the formation of the earth 1.5bil years ago or so? What was the nature of our sun - did it give off more radiation then? Was it larger than it is now? Was it smaller? Was its gravity greater at all? How close was it to the earth and what affect would this have on the planet so many years ago? Was it closer? Was it further away?
Anyone know?
"Put your foot where your mouth is." - Wisdom from my grandfather "Paper or plastic? ... because I'm afraid I'll have to suffocate you unless you put this bag on your head..." - Ethnitrek AC1: Wierding from Harvestgain
Originally posted by methane47 Originally posted by OneMuslim in the Qur'an, and if you go back a thousand years in history, the makers of chemistry, biology, math and physics were muslims,
I think you gave too much credit to islam there Onemuslim..... The first scientists and scholors were no doubt Religious priests, monks, shamen.. so forth.. But to say that the first were muslims is asking for a foot and taking an island..
Actually he has right. Untill 500 years ago Islam and the Islamic countries where the leading in the world. After that it has gone up with the west, or those who realized that religion can't be that central anymore, and Islam where religion stands strong fell behind.
The creator of Aljebra, Al-Khawarezmy, a Muslim mathmatician. He didn't create algebra. Algebra (of course not under that name) was being used long before Islam was founded. From ancient Babylonians, Indians, Hellenistic cultures, etc. Now he did produce an extremely important book and work on the subject, from which Algebra derives it's name. And much of his work is still used. Very important to the development of algeberic theory. But, it wasn't the effort of one people and one time period, but many. Diophantus is a also refered to as the father of algebra, by the way.
The creator of Biology, Jaber Bin Hayyan, a Muslim Doctor. Again, he didn't start or create biology. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_biology Muslims didn't create biology. Their very important contributions added greatly to biology.
There are a lot more whom i don't know or remember.
Even back before the Americas was discovered, europeans sent their children to study in the muslims' universities, and they were so proud when their children spoke arabic, ask any well informed fair european.
Now, to be sure, extremely importants contributions have come from Islamic scholars, researchers, etc that helped advance the sciences and math greatly. I do not belittle that at all. I just wanted to point out that it took alot of cultures and peoples to make those contributions. Knowledge has come from compounding one contribution after another, from many sources.
But...the watch is manmade, non organic. We are organic life.
so who created this organic life? did it make itself?
As far as the universe goes, nasa figured out its age at 13.7 billion years old.
please do tell me how on earth did they figure out that number, reversing the universe doesn't give that exact number, because things expand at different speeds
As the romans developed and slowly built archetecture the city became bigger, cleaner, more advanced technologically, just as life on earth started out most likely, changing and adapting (As evidence of pygmy humanoid fossils suggests).
the romans were normal human beings just like you and me, and they were mentioned in the Qur'an as well.
*I say most likely and suggest because its not necessarily fact just my point of view.
alot of people don't understand what is the true meaning of a FACT, my friend says your existance is not a fact, since you die, you no longer exist, this is not true imo, since records will exist about you :}
Originally posted by methane47 Originally posted by OneMuslim in the Qur'an, and if you go back a thousand years in history, the makers of chemistry, biology, math and physics were muslims,
I think you gave too much credit to islam there Onemuslim..... The first scientists and scholors were no doubt Religious priests, monks, shamen.. so forth.. But to say that the first were muslims is asking for a foot and taking an island..
Time for another history lesson it looks like.
Onemuslim is right, the doctrines he mentioned were first established and used by the Islamic people. At the time, the study of just about anything except religous doctrines had been all but outright banned by the Catholic church. During the crusades, many things changed.
For one thing, the muslim state was weakened to a point that it never really recovered from, what we now call the middle east might have become the center of power in this world left on its own. It might still become that of course, just not soon.
For another, the europeans learned from the Islamic people even as they fought them, gaining technological advances that lifted them out of the so called dark ages the collapse of the Roman Empire had left them in.
Because of that long series of bloody wars, one power rose and usurped the place of another. And people wonder why some around the world hate western society.
Originally posted by OneMuslim
Originally posted by Zerogenum As far as the universe goes, nasa figured out its age at 13.7 billion years old. please do tell me how on earth did they figure out that number, reversing the universe doesn't give that exact number, because things expand at different speeds Because, everything we can see around us is all moving away from a center point. We can calculate the speed at which each stellar object is moving. That speed is still the same, nothing can possibly accellerate, or decellerate in empty space without some other force. Calculate enough of the vectors, and you find the center point they all came from, from there its simple enough to find out how long the galaxies we can observe would have taken to get from that point to where it is at its current speed. Different speeds dont matter one bit, as long as all the other factors are constant, which in this case it is.
No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee. Hemingway
in the Qur'an, and if you go back a thousand years in history, the makers of chemistry, biology, math and physics were muslims,
I think you gave too much credit to islam there Onemuslim..... The first scientists and scholors were no doubt Religious priests, monks, shamen.. so forth.. But to say that the first were muslims is asking for a foot and taking an island..
Time for another history lesson it looks like.
Onemuslim is right, the doctrines he mentioned were first established and used by the Islamic people. At the time, the study of just about anything except religous doctrines had been all but outright banned by the Catholic church. During the crusades, many things changed. What about the Greeks and Chinese? The Islamic people did not "invent" these sciences. Theydidcontibute greatly to them, but they did not create them.
For one thing, the muslim state was weakened to a point that it never really recovered from, what we now call the middle east might have become the center of power in this world left on its own. It might still become that of course, just not soon.
For another, the europeans learned from the Islamic people even as they fought them, gaining technological advances that lifted them out of the so called dark ages the collapse of the Roman Empire had left them in.
Because of that long series of bloody wars, one power rose and usurped the place of another. And people wonder why some around the world hate western society.
I shoot for the curve... anything above that is gravy.
Originally posted by OneMuslim The creator of Aljebra, Al-Khawarezmy, a Muslim mathmatician. The creator of Biology, Jaber Bin Hayyan, a Muslim Doctor. There are a lot more whom i don't know or remember.
This is actually incorrect. Anaximander was the first in recorded in history to perfom biological experiments. He was a Greek philosopher in 600 BCE.
Aristotle wrote a book pertaining to Physics.
The Ancient Egyptians, and even the Mayans, used Algebra 2000 years before Islam was concieved.
This is no means a stab at Islam or Muslims, just a fact correction.
This is the most ignorant statement I have seen by someone trying to be smart. It shows a complete lack of comprehension when it comes to understanding how and why people believe in religeon. Blatently stating that you must be an idiot to believe anything outside the realm of science is your own "copout." And then your solution is to only teach science in school so that you can eradicate creationism? That's an interesting concept, maybe we could eliminate a lot of other things we don't like too while we're at it. Maybe, in your school, we could teach only math and science. Forget those pesky arts and humanities, they don't provide any substantial benefit to child development or society.
I'm glad you agree. It's a shame they never taught you how to spell religion in your school.
Yeah, you must be an idiot to accept anything that simple without empirical proof or at least creating a rational system to juxtapose it to other physical phenomenon.
Where is the consistent system of axioms from your creationists? Oh, that's right: Most of them don't have the necessary education in physics to propound one.
You people crack me up.
This is a sequence of characters intended to produce some profound mental effect, but it has failed.
Originally posted by daeandor Originally posted by //\//\oo Yeah, let's assume somebody did something for us and neglect the need to research and understand the universe ourselves. People shouldn't humor these idiots: Their "it is too complex, therefore something else created it and we don't need to undertsand it" drivel is like a child's "just cause" rationalization; it is a copout for lacking the necessary mental capacity to construct the universe and a rationalization for their own ignorance. Ever seen a physicist that believed entirely in creationism? Kids should neither be taught evolution nor creationism, but given the bases for chemistry, physics and some rudimentary biological properties of organisms; intelligence will lead them to their own conjectures and maybe the inductive idiocy keeping creationism afloat will die with rational choice.
This is the most ignorant statement I have seen by someone trying to be smart. It shows a complete lack of comprehension when it comes to understanding how and why people believe in religeon. Blatently stating that you must be an idiot to believe anything outside the realm of science is your own "copout." And then your solution is to only teach science in school so that you can eradicate creationism? That's an interesting concept, maybe we could eliminate a lot of other things we don't like too while we're at it. Maybe, in your school, we could teach only math and science. Forget those pesky arts and humanities, they don't provide any substantial benefit to child development or society.
Where is his post does he suggest that art and humanities not be taught? From what I got from his post, he is simply saying that we give the kids the tools to find out for themselves. Religious beliefs need to be kept in church and out of the schools.
I shoot for the curve... anything above that is gravy.
Why is it nescarry for you to attack Daeandors beliefs Moo? A axiom is simply a idea which is believed by a portion of people to have merit. Certainly you have the right to dissagree. To make small and ideocencratic attacks on spelling seems ... juivenie at best. Sadly it must be noted that the current educational standards so common among the United States of America are degrading at best. Just last week a teacher in a local school in the area I live quite when he was told he couldnt teach fuzzy math. Nor could he teach phonics. The schoolboard said he was making the rest of the schools students look stupid. Why so? His students scored so much better. I for one stand for creationism and the understanding of the laws which the creator used. Not blind faith. To stop childern from learning to allow a status quo... aggivating. How the heck are you supposed to understand god if you cant even add 1 plus 1?!
But...the watch is manmade, non organic. We are organic life. so who created this organic life? did it make itself?
As far as the universe goes, nasa figured out its age at 13.7 billion years old. please do tell me how on earth did they figure out that number, reversing the universe doesn't give that exact number, because things expand at different speeds
As the romans developed and slowly built archetecture the city became bigger, cleaner, more advanced technologically, just as life on earth started out most likely, changing and adapting (As evidence of pygmy humanoid fossils suggests). the romans were normal human beings just like you and me, and they were mentioned in the Qur'an as well.
*I say most likely and suggest because its not necessarily fact just my point of view. alot of people don't understand what is the true meaning of a FACT, my friend says your existance is not a fact, since you die, you no longer exist, this is not true imo, since records will exist about you :}
In the creation of a planet meteors landing carrying water, life is supposed to have started from that. It goes with the big bang.
I know the romans were human beings thats why it is a good look at watching life advance. I guess what i'm saying is I believe in a creator, but not of man more like the entire universe. It is highly unlikely we are the only intelligent beings in the universe.
As far as death, I believe we all live and die and its about what we do that matters.
What does the Qur'an say about the romans?
Heres what I do know about the romans, they died from corruption immorality and immigration.
Zerogenum - MixMatched BH Carbineer Template of the Gods, Kettemoor PRE CU SWG.
Comments
But the universe DIDNT always exist.
http://map.gsfc.nasa.gov/m_mm/mr_age.html
Nasa analyzed the facts down to a 1% margain of error. Its about 13.7 billion years old.
Creation happened.
Thanks to nasa and Wernher von Braun helping us get to space we figured a lot out.
Space travel is so badass.
Not necessarily, the mass that composes the galaxies around us didnt always exist in its current form. We have no way whatsoever at this point to tell what happened before then. What we do know is that the matter in question is arranged in the form of a hollow sphere, constantly expanding. This leaves us with a couple of options:
1. classic big bang: One massive explosion several billion years ago, once the matter from it has cooled off, thats it
2. closed universe: At some point in the future, matter will be pulled back to the center where it came from. Followed by another big bang and the repeat of a cycle.
3. rippling universe: The universe always existed and had no true beginning. An infinite number of expansions of mass have already happened, and its not going to end either. Each "big bang"occured inside of the other, the matter formed by each constantly expands, looking a bit like ripples in a pond.
#3 is the only one we might be able to confirm for absolutely certain before we all die, by looking outwards for signs of the last expanding ring of matter, if its there, it wont be easy to spot. The distances alone are an issue, but by now every single source of light (stars) would have long burned out.
No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.
Hemingway
Because the universe is around us, and we can understand many things about it by studying it.
God however is not around us, but his creation is :} therefore we can't study God himself, but we can study his creation, therefore understand the power of God.
And for a universe to create itself, it needs power to control itself, the universe can't control itself, why would there be space explosions if it can control itself? therefore someone has purposely placed the universe around us so we would be stunned by it's beauty, and no, all of these explosions are not random :} they are yet another small bangs to make beautiful scenes for NASA to take screens of.
How do you know that the universe needs controll for something to appear? You are assuming something fundamental that no human being can possibly know for sure one way or the other.
Bear in mind, Im not knocking your beliefs, simply making a point. In fact, I wish I still could believe in the religion I grew up with, I'd be happier with myself and the world around me.
No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.
Hemingway
If you are trying to rationalise faith, you have missed the point already.
Faith is belief without evidence.
In Islam, there's no faith or belief without evidence.
[22] Had there been therein (in the heavens and the earth) âlihah (gods) besides Allâh, then verily both would have been ruined. Glorified is Allâh, the Lord of the Throne, (High is He) above all that (evil) they associate with Him! - Chapter 21
[24] Or have they taken for worship (other) âlihah (gods) besides Him? Say: "Bring your proof: " This (the Qur'ân) is the Reminder for those with me and the Reminder for those before me. But most of them know not the Truth, so they are averse. - Chapter 21
[75] And We shall take out from every nation a witness, and We shall say: "Bring your proof." Then they shall know that the truth is with Allâh (Alone), and the lies (false gods) which they invented will disappear from them. - Chaptre 28
These are 2 examples only, So bring your proof :}
In Islam, there's no faith without proof my friends, that's in christianity only.
How do you know that the universe needs controll for something to appear? You are assuming something fundamental that no human being can possibly know for sure one way or the other.
Bear in mind, Im not knocking your beliefs, simply making a point. In fact, I wish I still could believe in the religion I grew up with, I'd be happier with myself and the world around me.
I'm gonna ask you something simple, can anything you know, have experienced, felt, touched, exist without someone creating it? or placing it there?
if your answer is No, then there you go, who placed the universe? considering that the universe don't talk to us, can't think for itself, and can't comprehend and what's happening, proof is? if it can, it would avoid more explosions.
But, you'll ask me, then who placed God there? my answer is, God is omnipotent, he is the one with super power beyond your comprehension, how he existed we can never know, but he promised to tell us if we worship him with the way he want us to wroship him with, and after entering paradise too.
I think you gave too much credit to islam there Onemuslim..... The first scientists and scholors were no doubt Religious priests, monks, shamen.. so forth.. But to say that the first were muslims is asking for a foot and taking an island..
What's your Wu Name?
Donovan --> Wu Name = Violent Knight
Methane47 --> Wu Name = Thunderous Leader
"Some people call me the walking plank, 'cuz any where you go... Death is right behind you.."
<i>ME<i>
I think you gave too much credit to islam there Onemuslim..... The first scientists and scholors were no doubt Religious priests, monks, shamen.. so forth.. But to say that the first were muslims is asking for a foot and taking an island..
The creator of Aljebra, Al-Khawarezmy, a Muslim mathmatician.
The creator of Biology, Jaber Bin Hayyan, a Muslim Doctor.
There are a lot more whom i don't know or remember.
Even back before the Americas was discovered, europeans sent their children to study in the muslims' universities, and they were so proud when their children spoke arabic, ask any well informed fair european.
That concern of yours, Nihilanth, isn't anything new as far as I'm concerned. Someone already answered it for me, and whether or not it is a copout (Mod), the point of God - the Creator of the universe - existing outside of his creation is logically infallible unless science rightfully then moves to discount the presence of time as a dimension of this universe.
I have a question though - not rhetorical but a real one which I'd like to be answered. Maybe a few questions actually. How large was our sun at the formation of the earth 1.5bil years ago or so? What was the nature of our sun - did it give off more radiation then? Was it larger than it is now? Was it smaller? Was its gravity greater at all? How close was it to the earth and what affect would this have on the planet so many years ago? Was it closer? Was it further away?
Anyone know?
"Put your foot where your mouth is." - Wisdom from my grandfather
"Paper or plastic? ... because I'm afraid I'll have to suffocate you unless you put this bag on your head..." - Ethnitrek
AC1: Wierding from Harvestgain
I think you gave too much credit to islam there Onemuslim..... The first scientists and scholors were no doubt Religious priests, monks, shamen.. so forth.. But to say that the first were muslims is asking for a foot and taking an island..
Actually he has right. Untill 500 years ago Islam and the Islamic countries where the leading in the world. After that it has gone up with the west, or those who realized that religion can't be that central anymore, and Islam where religion stands strong fell behind.
The creator of Aljebra, Al-Khawarezmy, a Muslim mathmatician. He didn't create algebra. Algebra (of course not under that name) was being used long before Islam was founded. From ancient Babylonians, Indians, Hellenistic cultures, etc. Now he did produce an extremely important book and work on the subject, from which Algebra derives it's name. And much of his work is still used. Very important to the development of algeberic theory. But, it wasn't the effort of one people and one time period, but many. Diophantus is a also refered to as the father of algebra, by the way.
The creator of Biology, Jaber Bin Hayyan, a Muslim Doctor. Again, he didn't start or create biology. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_biology Muslims didn't create biology. Their very important contributions added greatly to biology.
There are a lot more whom i don't know or remember.
Even back before the Americas was discovered, europeans sent their children to study in the muslims' universities, and they were so proud when their children spoke arabic, ask any well informed fair european.
Now, to be sure, extremely importants contributions have come from Islamic scholars, researchers, etc that helped advance the sciences and math greatly. I do not belittle that at all. I just wanted to point out that it took alot of cultures and peoples to make those contributions. Knowledge has come from compounding one contribution after another, from many sources.
I think you gave too much credit to islam there Onemuslim..... The first scientists and scholors were no doubt Religious priests, monks, shamen.. so forth.. But to say that the first were muslims is asking for a foot and taking an island..
Time for another history lesson it looks like.
Onemuslim is right, the doctrines he mentioned were first established and used by the Islamic people. At the time, the study of just about anything except religous doctrines had been all but outright banned by the Catholic church. During the crusades, many things changed.
For one thing, the muslim state was weakened to a point that it never really recovered from, what we now call the middle east might have become the center of power in this world left on its own. It might still become that of course, just not soon.
For another, the europeans learned from the Islamic people even as they fought them, gaining technological advances that lifted them out of the so called dark ages the collapse of the Roman Empire had left them in.
Because of that long series of bloody wars, one power rose and usurped the place of another. And people wonder why some around the world hate western society.
No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.
Hemingway
Intelligent design.... what if we were really the product of something like a Homer Simpson beer fart?
Guess the intelligent design folks are hopefully optimistic that that ain't so...
I shoot for the curve... anything above that is gravy.
This is actually incorrect. Anaximander was the first in recorded in history to perfom biological experiments. He was a Greek philosopher in 600 BCE.
Aristotle wrote a book pertaining to Physics.
The Ancient Egyptians, and even the Mayans, used Algebra 2000 years before Islam was concieved.
This is no means a stab at Islam or Muslims, just a fact correction.
I'm glad you agree. It's a shame they never taught you how to spell religion in your school.
Yeah, you must be an idiot to accept anything that simple without empirical proof or at least creating a rational system to juxtapose it to other physical phenomenon.
Where is the consistent system of axioms from your creationists? Oh, that's right: Most of them don't have the necessary education in physics to propound one.
You people crack me up.
This is a sequence of characters intended to produce some profound mental effect, but it has failed.
Where is his post does he suggest that art and humanities not be taught? From what I got from his post, he is simply saying that we give the kids the tools to find out for themselves. Religious beliefs need to be kept in church and out of the schools.
I shoot for the curve... anything above that is gravy.
Why is it nescarry for you to attack Daeandors beliefs Moo? A axiom is simply a idea which is believed by a portion of people to have merit. Certainly you have the right to dissagree. To make small and ideocencratic attacks on spelling seems ... juivenie at best. Sadly it must be noted that the current educational standards so common among the United States of America are degrading at best. Just last week a teacher in a local school in the area I live quite when he was told he couldnt teach fuzzy math. Nor could he teach phonics. The schoolboard said he was making the rest of the schools students look stupid. Why so? His students scored so much better. I for one stand for creationism and the understanding of the laws which the creator used. Not blind faith. To stop childern from learning to allow a status quo... aggivating. How the heck are you supposed to understand god if you cant even add 1 plus 1?!
Could somebody please translate that into English?
This is a sequence of characters intended to produce some profound mental effect, but it has failed.
In the creation of a planet meteors landing carrying water, life is supposed to have started from that. It goes with the big bang.
I know the romans were human beings thats why it is a good look at watching life advance. I guess what i'm saying is I believe in a creator, but not of man more like the entire universe. It is highly unlikely we are the only intelligent beings in the universe.
As far as death, I believe we all live and die and its about what we do that matters.
What does the Qur'an say about the romans?
Heres what I do know about the romans, they died from corruption immorality and immigration.
Zerogenum - MixMatched BH Carbineer Template of the Gods, Kettemoor PRE CU SWG.