Originally posted by Phoenixs The USA isn't the number 1 country in the world, neither is any other.Except Norway, ofcourse
Norway rocks, I know many good people there...
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
Originally posted by Tamalan Originally posted by Fadeus Perhaps you should try using some credible and accurate sources if you are going to try to make a point against US Citizens, Dinivan. What your point is other then the fact that you hate the USA is beyond me. However considering the quality of your post I really don't care at this point either. Maybe he is right, maybe he is wrong.But if you are going to just dismiss his post by disputing the information provided and its source, wouldnt it be wise to supply your own data and its source to prove why it is inaccurate?
because arugeing fact for fact is pointless. Some of those polls are just rediculous. Some of them are European publications stating poll numbers on american citizens. How did they get those numbers, did they actually come over here and interview? How many people did they poll. I could go on forever.
Using the New York Times as a source for anything is just stupid, I thought everyone already learned how legitimate they were over a year ago.
Some of those numbers go back to the recession of the 80's, why?
All of his points put one country against a Union of 20ish. How is that even an apples for apples comparison or even humored?
Several points use our unemployment as a number but he doesn't bother to cite the EU's own unemployment numbers. Our unemployment rate is currently 4.7 which is a record low. How is Frances these days?
Why is Germany excluded from all the data he provided to back ONE of his sources?
All of the data that was thrown out was very skewed and presented in a way to support his point and only limited information was given to lead the reader.
There is nothing to argue on it, there has to be something tangible to start with. His post was about as accurate and fair as a New York Times Editorial.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
Originally posted by baff It is that easy. America can give one ecomonic, military and foreign policy. The EU cannot. Half went to Iraq, half didn't. Half wanted to stop Israel, half didn't. Half are in Afghanistna, half aren't. Half want to block shoe imports from China, half don't. Half want to ban trade with Canada and New Zealand, half don't. Half send aid to Mugabe, half don't. Half want Gibralter to be handed over to the Spanish, half don't. Your fantasies of EU federalism are nothing more than that. Fantasy. America is different, like Russia it can mobilse almost the same number of resources as everyone in the EU zone combined, but unlike the EU, Russia and America can do so with uninamity. Federal law suprcedes state law. They are United as a people where the EU is not. EU power does not match the power of the Russian and American federations. It is not a unified people with common intrests and goals.
The EU is a trade and diplomatic consortium, it is no more a country than the Arab league or the United Nations. EU policies are not law in any country. Each country choses to adopt them as it pleases and then votes oin them via it's own parliamentry process. National law supercedes EU law. It has no citizens as it is not a nation. The EU rapid reaction force is no more an army than the NATO is. Any such army will not be under control of the EU, but rather under the invidual control of any countries willing to provide them. A coalition. It might be lost on you, but many of the countries in the EU gave their citizens a vote to see if they wished for it to become a political union, a federal Europe and amost every single one of them resoundingly voted "no". The EU is not a country or a federation. There is a long history of very violent resistance to any attempt to make it one throughout Europe history. As for superior public transport in Europe, I'll keep using my car thanks.
Hm, I think you haven't read much about the EU right? First, the EU has a single voice over economic policies at the world stage, there's no possible discussion about that. It's right there are some disagreements over military and foreign policies between member states, but we've realized about that and we are working on it. How? for example by creating the foreign minister proposed in the EU constitution, which was not "rejected by almost every single one of them", just by France and the NL (and 15 have approved it), and in my opinion it failed because the ratification process was too state-centered instead of making one single referendum for all of the EU, so citizens in France for example voted based on state issues. Okay, it's not just my opinion, many people think the same, including for example Sarkozy.
Second, EU policies are law both through regulations (that are automatically considered national law) and through directives (they MUST be adopted as national law, if you do not, you'll be fined by the european court). So this law suprecedes the state law.
Third, as I said, the EU has citizens because in the Maastricht treaty it was granted to us the european citizenship.
Fourth, the EURRF will be controlled by the EU once it's deployed, although each member state can still decide wether to participate or not, but once they decide they do participate then they lose control over the troops.
And please, even your government says the EU is no comparable to any kind of international organization... (look at CIA world factbook)
Originally posted by seabass2003 I notice you keep mentioning the European Union. That is 25 countries vs. 1 country. I would hope 25 countries put together would be better than the U.S. Also I could post ugly shit about every country in the world but what is the point other than to incite hate?
If you want to be fair, either we compare the US to the EU or we compare the 25 vs the 50 states each one has
Originally posted by Dinivan Originally posted by seabass2003 I notice you keep mentioning the European Union. That is 25 countries vs. 1 country. I would hope 25 countries put together would be better than the U.S. Also I could post ugly shit about every country in the world but what is the point other than to incite hate?If you want to be fair, either we compare the US to the EU or we compare the 25 vs the 50 states each one has
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
Originally posted by Dinivan Originally posted by WantsumBierWhat you say is very true, but IMHO you are still comparing apples to oranges. If you want to be accurate divide the total contributions by the member nations, then compare them to the U.S. individually. You are right, my comparison wasn't good. I should have compared the sum of the contributions from the EU itself + what gives each state, with what gives the US itself + what gives each state... but I couldn't find any data about the aid that California gave so I thought it (and the rest of states) didn't give any aid. Correct me if I'm wrong, cos it's always a pleasure to learn something new.
You really have no comprehension of the states if you think that. Sorry, uncomparable. Keep talking though, you may your point look worse and worse every time you do.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
Wtf is this mania Americans seem to have with disqualification, like really?
s: "Guild Wars is #1" r: "Guild Wars is not an MMORPG!"
s: "The EU has a better something-or-other than the USA" r: "The EU is not a country!"
s: "The New York Times stated that..." r: "The New York Times is not a valid source!"
...adament disqualification or discreditation without supporting evidence is not a counterargument, friends. And really, its annoying as hell, because all it really does is kill intelligent discussion and debate.
"Speaking haygywaygy or some other gibberish with your mum doesn't make you foreign." -baff
Originally posted by Theodoryk Wtf is this mania Americans seem to have with disqualification, like really?s: "Guild Wars is #1"r: "Guild Wars is not an MMORPG!"s: "The EU has a better something-or-other than the USA"r: "The EU is not a country!"s: "The New York Times stated that..."r: "The New York Times is not a valid source!"...adament disqualification or discreditation without supporting evidence is not a counterargument, friends. And really, its annoying as hell, because all it really does is kill intelligent discussion and debate.
You are kidding me right? You have never heard of the Jayson Blair and Judith Miller scandals? I am sorry but if I have to provide you with every little tid bit because you don't do any indepenant investigation on your own then really why are you here?
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
Originally posted by Dinivan Originally posted by seabass2003 I notice you keep mentioning the European Union. That is 25 countries vs. 1 country. I would hope 25 countries put together would be better than the U.S. Also I could post ugly shit about every country in the world but what is the point other than to incite hate?
If you want to be fair, either we compare the US to the EU or we compare the 25 vs the 50 states each one has
Dinivan, they have a point. The EU is not counted as one country, it's a bunch of countries. In the end the countries in the EU are still independent countries. They are in no way as submissive to the EU administration, like american states are to Washington and the White House.
Originally posted by Phoenixs Originally posted by Dinivan Originally posted by seabass2003 I notice you keep mentioning the European Union. That is 25 countries vs. 1 country. I would hope 25 countries put together would be better than the U.S. Also I could post ugly shit about every country in the world but what is the point other than to incite hate?If you want to be fair, either we compare the US to the EU or we compare the 25 vs the 50 states each one has Dinivan, they have a point. The EU is not counted as one country, it's a bunch of countries. In the end the countries in the EU are still independent countries. They are in no way as submissive to the EU administration, like american states are to Washington and the White House.
The EU is 25 seperate political bodies. The US is one political body, the civil war clarified that.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
Haha... go look at the number of Chinese in American graduate programs and ask yourself: If it's so f***ing horrible here in the United States, then why are all of these international students vying for our grad schools?
This is just another "let's bash Americans" thread that was created to inspire flaming. I've lived in Europe: Whenever you cowards make generalizations about Americans it's with the security of anonymity.
Why must everybody bash America? Everybody is allowed to be proud of their country, but not us: Patriotism is regarded as arrogance and we are to deem ourselves inferior, because our government has aggressive international policies.
F*** that: I'm not responsible for my entire country, I'm not illiterate and if you ever make derogatory remarks about me because of my country in my face, then I'll f*** you up.
This is a sequence of characters intended to produce some profound mental effect, but it has failed.
You are kidding me right? You have never heard of the Jayson Blair and Judith Miller scandals? I am sorry but if I have to provide you with every little tid bit because you don't do any indepenant investigation on your own then really why are you here?
My post was about a mania for disqualification, if you're going to argue against something, argue against the actual subject matter I addressed. You seem to specialise in fighting windmills, really quite cute, to be sure. If you are incapable of conducting an intelligent and logical debate, why are you here?
"Speaking haygywaygy or some other gibberish with your mum doesn't make you foreign." -baff
Originally posted by Theodoryk You are kidding me right? You have never heard of the Jayson Blair and Judith Miller scandals? I am sorry but if I have to provide you with every little tid bit because you don't do any indepenant investigation on your own then really why are you here?My post was about a mania for disqualification, if you're going to argue against something, argue against the actual subject matter I addressed. You seem to specialise in fighting windmills, really quite cute, to be sure. If you are incapable of conducting an intelligent and logical debate, why are you here?
I have, I even asked some questions for the OP. All I have seen you do thus far is nit pit everyone else's arguements.
Perhaps you should consider posting something about the actual debate.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
Whenever you cowards make generalizations about Americans it's with the security of anonymity.
So I guess then that this also makes you a coward for bashing religious people in general "with the security of anonymity". I've noticed in my time here that to you, anyone that holds an opinion you disagree with is either a coward, an idiot, or some other pathetic example of human life. Say anything anti-American, and its seems most Americans are reduced dumb, blind, patriotic drones, marching along to the beat of some "#1" drum and spitting out the same tired old slogans. No one cares about your patriotism. No one cares about your insults and your bravado. The outside world sees the USA as a retarded bear smashing its way around the woods with no real sense of purpose or direction. The statements I've read in this thread seem to reinforce this position.
"Speaking haygywaygy or some other gibberish with your mum doesn't make you foreign." -baff
Originally posted by Theodoryk Whenever you cowards make generalizations about Americans it's with the security of anonymity.So I guess then that this also makes you a coward for bashing religious people in general "with the security of anonymity". I've noticed in my time here that to you, anyone that holds an opinion you disagree with is either a coward, an idiot, or some other pathetic example of human life. Say anything anti-American, and its seems most Americans are reduced dumb, blind, patriotic drones, marching along to the beat of some "#1" drum and spitting out the same tired old slogans. No one cares about your patriotism. No one cares about your insults and your bravado. The outside world sees the USA as a retarded bear smashing its way around the woods with no real sense of purpose or direction. The statements I've read in this thread seem to reinforce this position.
I beleive you missed something called "irony".
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
Perhaps you should consider posting something about the actual debate.
Perhaps you should realise that you are in no position to decide for me what part of a thread I will address. If you can't come up with a valid counterargument to my statement, then just don't bother replying. Resist the urge to blindly lash out at anyone you think may be on the "opposite side" of the debate, you'll get better results that way.
"Speaking haygywaygy or some other gibberish with your mum doesn't make you foreign." -baff
Originally posted by //\//\oo This is just another "let's bash Americans" thread that was created to inspire flaming. I've lived in Europe: Whenever you cowards make generalizations about Americans it's with the security of anonymity.
so you just called me, a european, a coward... utilising 'the security of anonymity'
pot, kettle, black?
plus one of the biggest criticisms of americans are their over aggressive attitudes, which you sadly demonstrated by your threat to "f*** you up*
Hm, I think you haven't read much about the EU right? First, the EU has a single voice over economic policies at the world stage, there's no possible discussion about that. It's right there are some disagreements over military and foreign policies between member states, but we've realized about that and we are working on it. How? for example by creating the foreign minister proposed in the EU constitution, which was not "rejected by almost every single one of them", just by France and the NL (and 15 have approved it), and in my opinion it failed because the ratification process was too state-centered instead of making one single referendum for all of the EU, so citizens in France for example voted based on state issues. Okay, it's not just my opinion, many people think the same, including for example Sarkozy.
Second, EU policies are law both through regulations (that are automatically considered national law) and through directives (they MUST be adopted as national law, if you do not, you'll be fined by the european court). So this law suprecedes the state law.
Third, as I said, the EU has citizens because in the Maastricht treaty it was granted to us the european citizenship.
Fourth, the EURRF will be controlled by the EU once it's deployed, although each member state can still decide wether to participate or not, but once they decide they do participate then they lose control over the troops.
And please, even your government says the EU is no comparable to any kind of international organization... (look at CIA world factbook)
My government didn't write the CIA factbook. My government says EU law does not supercede our own laws. It says the EU is not a federal body and never will be so long as we are a part of it. "You" maybe working on a single foreign policy, but we are working against that.
No one who was offered a vote approved it. No one.
Ireland, when offered a vote rejected it, but was made to vote again. My country wasn't offered the vote at all, because they new they couldn't win it. If only 1 country refuses, it isn't ratified.
They had a vote, and you don't like the results, so you choose to ignore them. Luckily, our Army is MUCH bigger than yours, so there isn't much you can do about it is there?
War is the only way you will unite the EU, the only way it has ever been united before and it's the same way all the other federations managed to unite. The only problem is Britain and France are nuclear powers, so you can't fight them at all. And they are both utterly unable to agree with eachother about anything. Their national intrests are too conficted.
EU does not supercede national law, they are not automatically adopted in my country or even yours. You will notice that many EU directives are not made law in any number of countries. (Example: Digital Rights Copywright Laws). You will also note that EU fines go unpaid. If that country is France, Germany or Italy, you can whistle for the money, as we have seen over monetary Union. The EU doesn't have the authority to fine people. When push came to shove all it had was bark and no bite.
Mandelson may speak for the EU council about trade, but he doesn't speak for the individual nations. They still speak for themselves.
Certain diplomatic agreements are legally binding. These are called Treaties. A country signed up to a treaty must ratify it or risk losing any benefits offered by it. However the countries are still sovergein nations and may break or withdraw from any treaty they wish at any time. National Law supercedes international treaties. The American and Russian States do not have that privilage. For them to do so is to trigger a civil war automatically.
No nation will ever lose control of it's own troops, not to Nato and not to the EU. Nice fantasy. All that will happen is that no one will deploy under an EU mandate. They will still operate together in all the same conflicts, but under the guise of NATO or the "Coalition of the Willling" or some other name invented for the specific campaign. The country who provides the largest contingent of troops will take overall control of any operation, business as usual. No one in the EU will ever have a say, until the EU raises it's own EU army and contributes the largest force to an operation.
Nice EU fantasy you have there. Shame it doesn't mirror reality. Or rather, a massive releif as that would undoubtably trigger WW3. We don't want a federal Europe. Too many of our family members have died to prevent it. It will never be so. If you try and force it, you will die.
Originally posted by Theodoryk Perhaps you should consider posting something about the actual debate.Perhaps you should realise that you are in no position to decide for me what part of a thread I will address. If you can't come up with a valid counterargument to my statement, then just don't bother replying. Resist the urge to blindly lash out at anyone you think may be on the "opposite side" of the debate, you'll get better results that way.
I did realize, hence it being a suggestion instead of an order.
What am I supposed to be counter-argueing exactly?
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
I believe that believe is not spelled beleive. I believe that you yourself have missed quite a bit of irony in this very thread. I believe that you believe that using words such as "believe" and "perhaps" makes your one sentence statements sound clever, or perhaps even intelligent. I believe that you really have nothing of worth to contribute whatsoever. I believe I now understand your mania for disqualification. I believe I'll be sorely disapointed by the lack of wit in your response to this post.
"Speaking haygywaygy or some other gibberish with your mum doesn't make you foreign." -baff
I believe that believe is not spelled beleive. I believe that you yourself have missed quite a bit of irony in this very thread. I believe that you believe that using words such as "believe" and "perhaps" makes your one sentence statements sound clever, or perhaps even intelligent. I believe that you really have nothing of worth to contribute whatsoever. I believe I now understand your mania for disqualification. I believe I'll be sorely disapointed by the lack of wit in your response to this post.
I believe that you need to smoke some pot, chill out and buy a new goddam headset.
Originally posted by Theodoryk I beleive you missed something called "irony".I believe that believe is not spelled beleive. I believe that you yourself have missed quite a bit of irony in this very thread. I believe that you believe that using words such as "believe" and "perhaps" makes your one sentence statements sound clever, or perhaps even intelligent. I believe that you really have nothing of worth to contribute whatsoever. I believe I now understand your mania for disqualification. I believe I'll be sorely disapointed by the lack of wit in your response to this post.
Thanks for the spell check their cheif
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
I believe that believe is not spelled beleive. I believe that you yourself have missed quite a bit of irony in this very thread. I believe that you believe that using words such as "believe" and "perhaps" makes your one sentence statements sound clever, or perhaps even intelligent. I believe that you really have nothing of worth to contribute whatsoever. I believe I now understand your mania for disqualification. I believe I'll be sorely disapointed by the lack of wit in your response to this post.
I believe comaparing America to a conglomerate of countries is a wee bit lopsided. I believe this topic was created for the sole purpse of inciting flames. I believe the facts stated were conveniently one sided against the US as well.
Comments
Except Norway, ofcourse
Norway rocks, I know many good people there...
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
because arugeing fact for fact is pointless. Some of those polls are just rediculous. Some of them are European publications stating poll numbers on american citizens. How did they get those numbers, did they actually come over here and interview? How many people did they poll. I could go on forever.
Using the New York Times as a source for anything is just stupid, I thought everyone already learned how legitimate they were over a year ago.
Some of those numbers go back to the recession of the 80's, why?
All of his points put one country against a Union of 20ish. How is that even an apples for apples comparison or even humored?
Several points use our unemployment as a number but he doesn't bother to cite the EU's own unemployment numbers. Our unemployment rate is currently 4.7 which is a record low. How is Frances these days?
Why is Germany excluded from all the data he provided to back ONE of his sources?
All of the data that was thrown out was very skewed and presented in a way to support his point and only limited information was given to lead the reader.
There is nothing to argue on it, there has to be something tangible to start with. His post was about as accurate and fair as a New York Times Editorial.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
First, the EU has a single voice over economic policies at the world stage, there's no possible discussion about that. It's right there are some disagreements over military and foreign policies between member states, but we've realized about that and we are working on it. How? for example by creating the foreign minister proposed in the EU constitution, which was not "rejected by almost every single one of them", just by France and the NL (and 15 have approved it), and in my opinion it failed because the ratification process was too state-centered instead of making one single referendum for all of the EU, so citizens in France for example voted based on state issues. Okay, it's not just my opinion, many people think the same, including for example Sarkozy.
Second, EU policies are law both through regulations (that are automatically considered national law) and through directives (they MUST be adopted as national law, if you do not, you'll be fined by the european court). So this law suprecedes the state law.
Third, as I said, the EU has citizens because in the Maastricht treaty it was granted to us the european citizenship.
Fourth, the EURRF will be controlled by the EU once it's deployed, although each member state can still decide wether to participate or not, but once they decide they do participate then they lose control over the troops.
And please, even your government says the EU is no comparable to any kind of international organization... (look at CIA world factbook)
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
You really have no comprehension of the states if you think that. Sorry, uncomparable. Keep talking though, you may your point look worse and worse every time you do.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
s: "Guild Wars is #1"
r: "Guild Wars is not an MMORPG!"
s: "The EU has a better something-or-other than the USA"
r: "The EU is not a country!"
s: "The New York Times stated that..."
r: "The New York Times is not a valid source!"
...adament disqualification or discreditation without supporting evidence is not a counterargument, friends. And really, its annoying as hell, because all it really does is kill intelligent discussion and debate.
"Speaking haygywaygy or some other gibberish with your mum doesn't make you foreign."
-baff
You are kidding me right? You have never heard of the Jayson Blair and Judith Miller scandals? I am sorry but if I have to provide you with every little tid bit because you don't do any indepenant investigation on your own then really why are you here?
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
Dinivan, they have a point. The EU is not counted as one country, it's a bunch of countries. In the end the countries in the EU are still independent countries. They are in no way as submissive to the EU administration, like american states are to Washington and the White House.
The EU is 25 seperate political bodies. The US is one political body, the civil war clarified that.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
{(RIP)} SWG
Haha... go look at the number of Chinese in American graduate programs and ask yourself: If it's so f***ing horrible here in the United States, then why are all of these international students vying for our grad schools?
This is just another "let's bash Americans" thread that was created to inspire flaming. I've lived in Europe: Whenever you cowards make generalizations about Americans it's with the security of anonymity.
Why must everybody bash America? Everybody is allowed to be proud of their country, but not us: Patriotism is regarded as arrogance and we are to deem ourselves inferior, because our government has aggressive international policies.
F*** that: I'm not responsible for my entire country, I'm not illiterate and if you ever make derogatory remarks about me because of my country in my face, then I'll f*** you up.
This is a sequence of characters intended to produce some profound mental effect, but it has failed.
My post was about a mania for disqualification, if you're going to argue against something, argue against the actual subject matter I addressed. You seem to specialise in fighting windmills, really quite cute, to be sure. If you are incapable of conducting an intelligent and logical debate, why are you here?
"Speaking haygywaygy or some other gibberish with your mum doesn't make you foreign."
-baff
I have, I even asked some questions for the OP. All I have seen you do thus far is nit pit everyone else's arguements.
Perhaps you should consider posting something about the actual debate.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
So I guess then that this also makes you a coward for bashing religious people in general "with the security of anonymity". I've noticed in my time here that to you, anyone that holds an opinion you disagree with is either a coward, an idiot, or some other pathetic example of human life. Say anything anti-American, and its seems most Americans are reduced dumb, blind, patriotic drones, marching along to the beat of some "#1" drum and spitting out the same tired old slogans. No one cares about your patriotism. No one cares about your insults and your bravado. The outside world sees the USA as a retarded bear smashing its way around the woods with no real sense of purpose or direction. The statements I've read in this thread seem to reinforce this position.
"Speaking haygywaygy or some other gibberish with your mum doesn't make you foreign."
-baff
I beleive you missed something called "irony".
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
Perhaps you should realise that you are in no position to decide for me what part of a thread I will address. If you can't come up with a valid counterargument to my statement, then just don't bother replying. Resist the urge to blindly lash out at anyone you think may be on the "opposite side" of the debate, you'll get better results that way.
"Speaking haygywaygy or some other gibberish with your mum doesn't make you foreign."
-baff
so you just called me, a european, a coward... utilising 'the security of anonymity'
pot, kettle, black?
plus one of the biggest criticisms of americans are their over aggressive attitudes, which you sadly demonstrated by your threat to "f*** you up*
hehehe....
Peace
Tam
Hm, I think you haven't read much about the EU right?
First, the EU has a single voice over economic policies at the world stage, there's no possible discussion about that. It's right there are some disagreements over military and foreign policies between member states, but we've realized about that and we are working on it. How? for example by creating the foreign minister proposed in the EU constitution, which was not "rejected by almost every single one of them", just by France and the NL (and 15 have approved it), and in my opinion it failed because the ratification process was too state-centered instead of making one single referendum for all of the EU, so citizens in France for example voted based on state issues. Okay, it's not just my opinion, many people think the same, including for example Sarkozy.
Second, EU policies are law both through regulations (that are automatically considered national law) and through directives (they MUST be adopted as national law, if you do not, you'll be fined by the european court). So this law suprecedes the state law.
Third, as I said, the EU has citizens because in the Maastricht treaty it was granted to us the european citizenship.
Fourth, the EURRF will be controlled by the EU once it's deployed, although each member state can still decide wether to participate or not, but once they decide they do participate then they lose control over the troops.
And please, even your government says the EU is no comparable to any kind of international organization... (look at CIA world factbook)
My government didn't write the CIA factbook. My government says EU law does not supercede our own laws. It says the EU is not a federal body and never will be so long as we are a part of it. "You" maybe working on a single foreign policy, but we are working against that.
No one who was offered a vote approved it. No one.
Ireland, when offered a vote rejected it, but was made to vote again. My country wasn't offered the vote at all, because they new they couldn't win it. If only 1 country refuses, it isn't ratified.
They had a vote, and you don't like the results, so you choose to ignore them. Luckily, our Army is MUCH bigger than yours, so there isn't much you can do about it is there?
War is the only way you will unite the EU, the only way it has ever been united before and it's the same way all the other federations managed to unite. The only problem is Britain and France are nuclear powers, so you can't fight them at all. And they are both utterly unable to agree with eachother about anything. Their national intrests are too conficted.
EU does not supercede national law, they are not automatically adopted in my country or even yours. You will notice that many EU directives are not made law in any number of countries. (Example: Digital Rights Copywright Laws). You will also note that EU fines go unpaid. If that country is France, Germany or Italy, you can whistle for the money, as we have seen over monetary Union. The EU doesn't have the authority to fine people. When push came to shove all it had was bark and no bite.
Mandelson may speak for the EU council about trade, but he doesn't speak for the individual nations. They still speak for themselves.
Certain diplomatic agreements are legally binding. These are called Treaties. A country signed up to a treaty must ratify it or risk losing any benefits offered by it. However the countries are still sovergein nations and may break or withdraw from any treaty they wish at any time. National Law supercedes international treaties. The American and Russian States do not have that privilage. For them to do so is to trigger a civil war automatically.
No nation will ever lose control of it's own troops, not to Nato and not to the EU. Nice fantasy. All that will happen is that no one will deploy under an EU mandate. They will still operate together in all the same conflicts, but under the guise of NATO or the "Coalition of the Willling" or some other name invented for the specific campaign. The country who provides the largest contingent of troops will take overall control of any operation, business as usual. No one in the EU will ever have a say, until the EU raises it's own EU army and contributes the largest force to an operation.
Nice EU fantasy you have there. Shame it doesn't mirror reality. Or rather, a massive releif as that would undoubtably trigger WW3. We don't want a federal Europe. Too many of our family members have died to prevent it. It will never be so. If you try and force it, you will die.
I did realize, hence it being a suggestion instead of an order.
What am I supposed to be counter-argueing exactly?
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
I believe that believe is not spelled beleive.
I believe that you yourself have missed quite a bit of irony in this very thread.
I believe that you believe that using words such as "believe" and "perhaps" makes your one sentence statements sound clever, or perhaps even intelligent.
I believe that you really have nothing of worth to contribute whatsoever.
I believe I now understand your mania for disqualification.
I believe I'll be sorely disapointed by the lack of wit in your response to this post.
"Speaking haygywaygy or some other gibberish with your mum doesn't make you foreign."
-baff
I believe that believe is not spelled beleive.
I believe that you yourself have missed quite a bit of irony in this very thread.
I believe that you believe that using words such as "believe" and "perhaps" makes your one sentence statements sound clever, or perhaps even intelligent.
I believe that you really have nothing of worth to contribute whatsoever.
I believe I now understand your mania for disqualification.
I believe I'll be sorely disapointed by the lack of wit in your response to this post.
I believe that you need to smoke some pot, chill out and buy a new goddam headset.
Thanks for the spell check their cheif
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
I believe this topic was created for the sole purpse of inciting flames.
I believe the facts stated were conveniently one sided against the US as well.
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