Originally posted by Techleo The russians were occupying the germans while the americans took advantage of the situation and dealt necessary deathblows from the otherside. Neither side could have acheived victory without the other. Althought if the americans hadnt succeded at certain points it could have ended with berlin being nuked by the russians or the germans nuking the russians. It was more or less a race to see who could deal the deathblow.
This I find interesting... I wonder how they would have done that with no nukes :P Either way with how history played out the U.S. was the FIRST country with nukes... So its likely we would have just nuked Germany too and still won.
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Originally posted by Redslayer Originally posted by Techleo The russians were occupying the germans while the americans took advantage of the situation and dealt necessary deathblows from the otherside. Neither side could have acheived victory without the other. Althought if the americans hadnt succeded at certain points it could have ended with berlin being nuked by the russians or the germans nuking the russians. It was more or less a race to see who could deal the deathblow.
This I find interesting... I wonder how they would have done that with no nukes :P Either way with how history played out the U.S. was the FIRST country with nukes... So its likely we would have just nuked Germany too and still won. Russians did get their hands on nuclear technology before the end of the war, and the Germans were pushing their behinds to get their own research through. Niether had the time to get to a working version though.
No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee. Hemingway
Originally posted by AelfinnRussians did get their hands on nuclear technology before the end of the war, and the Germans were pushing their behinds to get their own research through. Niether had the time to get to a working version though.
My point exactly... They didn't have nukes... They can have the technoligy as much as they like,but if you don't have a working version does it matter?
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Originally posted by Redslayer My point exactly... They didn't have nukes... They can have the technoligy as much as they like,but if you don't have a working version does it matter?
If it wasn't for the manner in which the US and Russia squeezed Germany like a ripe melon, the war would likely have dragged on for years. There would have been time to develop.
No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee. Hemingway
Originally posted by Aelfinn If it wasn't for the manner in which the US and Russia squeezed Germany like a ripe melon, the war would likely have dragged on for years. There would have been time to develop.
Or... The US would have just nuked Germany once we developed nukes and it would have ended anyway. I Do see what you are saying... But the way it went the US still would have had nukes first and as shown in Japan would have used them.
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Originally posted by YuckYuck America = Number 1! And I'm 100% supportive of it.
Number 1 in all negative aspects of life. And Just what are those? Number 1 in acting powerful when so many other countries are more powerful. Please name a country that would beat the US atm one vs one,Because I can only think of one that could probably stand against it alone,and it would be a long and terrible war. Number 1 in thinking she's God. lol,I don't think that. Number 1 in trying to influence others based on their own cultures. Yes it does seem the goevernment is doing that stupid sht atm... Hopefully after the next elections things will get better. Number 1 in making people think its number 1. lol, Doesn't seem to be working a whole lot now does it?
Just curious as to what your opinion is... or if that was just trolling.
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Russians did get their hands on nuclear technology before the end of the war, and the Germans were pushing their behinds to get their own research through. Niether had the time to get to a working version though.
The germans abandoned their project in 1943 after a series of Commando raids in Norway.
Please name a country that would beat the US atm one vs one,Because I can only think of one that could probably stand against it alone,and it would be a long and terrible war.
Originally posted by baff Originally posted by Redslayer
Please name a country that would beat the US atm one vs one,Because I can only think of one that could probably stand against it alone,and it would be a long and terrible war.
About 15 minutes long.
lol... Acually after thinking it over... The war would last about that long :P (or however long it would take nukes to reach eachother). Hope I die before that tho!
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Originally posted by Redslayer Originally posted by baff Originally posted by Redslayer
Please name a country that would beat the US atm one vs one,Because I can only think of one that could probably stand against it alone,and it would be a long and terrible war.
About 15 minutes long.
lol... Acually after thinking it over... The war would last about that long :P (or however long it would take nukes to reach eachother). Hope I die before that tho!
Depending on the distance, its a matter of an hour or so usually. Unfortunately, most countries with nukes have blast bunkers attached to the launch sites, which are also heavily protected, pretty much impossible to take them out. Generals can sit in there for a long time, with nothing living on the surface, launching missile after missile at each other.
No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee. Hemingway
Banking is our largest revenue stream. The city. The stock exchange. Currency exchange. Lloyds of London. Insurance. Underwriting. Investment funds. Pensions. Futures. Bonds. you get the idea. We are not a big exporter or manufacturer of anything. Maybe a hundred years ago.......
Of course manufacturing is our largest export. No one buys British Beef. Least of all Europeans. With the common agricultural policy as it is, our farmers can't compete in the European market. The fisheries policy penalises our fishermen also.
So here's a little experiment I want you to do for me, to demonstrate the level of British exports in Europe. Count how many British made products you own personally. When you drive to work tomorrow, count the number of foreign cars you see, and then count which ones are British.
Hmf ok, I thought you had some notions on economy, but seems not so I'll explain you something. All those services you mention can already be exported and in fact are counted as exports. Look at the webpage I provided you. Of the 347bn $ of merchandise exports, 80.8% are manufactures, that's 280bn. Of the 184bn of services exports, only a maximum of 68.6% can be those services you mention, that's 126bn. Oh and I don't need to go very far to look for a UK product, my car (nissan) has been made there
You might notice from that webpage you provided, that Britain imports more from Europe than it exports. With the EU, we make a net loss. Excuse me if I don't fall over myself with you to be in business there. In 2004, we exported $200,851,532,000 to the EU, and imported $260,730,128,000 (figures from your given link). Which means we would be a staggering $60 billion richer if we stopped trading with Europe entirely. That's a $1,000 extra a year for every citizen in the land.
That's not the fault of the EU. You have 123bn of deficit, and half of it is produced with the EU. But the EU share over imports and exports of the UK is roughly half. That means that the proportions are mantained quite well, so you simply have a larger deficit with the EU than with anyone because the EU is your largest trading partner, not because we are cheating on you. Basically that means that the problem with your deficit is caused by you, maybe you've had too much inflation over the past years, you've lost productivity, the pound is overvalued or whatever.
You need us more than we need you. So you aren't really in too strong a bargaining position. We could always decide to pay less or no tax, we could set up trade tariffs, demand goods imported to the U.K. meet our own already existing strict standards, be measured by our own system of wieghts and measures. No loss to us. Might even turn out to be profitable.
We pay you tribute to keep you quiet and not start any wars, so that we can get on with our lives and business without interruption. If the money isn't working and you are still unable to do that, we might as well stop now. We could treble our army in a year with the money the EU costs us.
We need you more than you need us because you have a trade deficit? man, don't you understand that if you have a deficit its because it's better to buy products from outside the UK?. Try and quit the EU and the WTO and increase your tariffs, the UK's economy is relatively small so there's no way the country can gain from increasing the tariffs even if you consider that the other countries will remain quiet and will not raise their tariffs against the UK products. You know why the 1929 crisis was so bad? because the US increased the tariffs, and the rest of countries did the same against the US, so they had to increase the tariffs again, and again and again... everyone lost. And about the second paragraph... maybe I should remind you that we didn't ask you to get in the EEC so you could pay us to maintain the peace in Europe, it was you that begged us to get in the EEC, begged because there were many europeans that didn't want you to get in for fears that you would boycott the organization from inside by not letting it advance, something you've finally done.
"What is true, at this very moment, from the economic standpoint, would also be true, eventually, from the political standpoint. The idea, the hope which, from the beginning, led the Six continental countries to unite, tended without any doubt toward the formation of a unit which would be European in all respects, and, because of this would become capable not only of carrying its own weight in production and trade, but also of acting one day politically by itself and for itself toward anyone. Considering the special relations that tic the British to America, with the advantage and also the dependence that results for them; considering the existence of the Commonwealth and their preferential relations with it; considering the special commitment that they still have in various parts of the world and which, basically, distinguishes them from the continentals, we see that the policy of the latter, as soon as they have one, would undoubtedly concur, in certain cases, with the policy of the former. But we cannot see how both policies could merge, unless the British assumed again, particularly as regards defense, complete command of themselves, or else if the continentals renounced forever a European Europe." Comment by Charles de Gaulle.
In fact, de Gaulle vetoed the entry of Britain in the EEC the first two times that you tried to get in, and he was not alone, even Konrad Adenauer (Germany) backed De Gaulle in his decision. But finally when De Gaulle felt from power, you tried again to get in the EEC and your entry was approved.
We signed up for the E.E.C. when our economy was struggling, we desperately needed new markets. It's never worked for us. And now the E.E.C. wants to be the EU and not only sell us all it's goods (made to it's own standards and no longer ours), but tax us for the priviliage and then tell us what to do.
Do you really think what you write? you got in the EEC when your economy was struggling and lagged behind most of the european economies, now you are doing fairly well and even catched France... but of course it never worked for you, right?
Originally posted by RK-Mara Redslayer, it seems like you think that nukes and war are the most important things in the world?
No acually I hate the thought of war and anyone being killed... But just looking at history(unless you just want to pretend history never happened) I don't see Europe becoming all one country without war(basicly Germany tried once)... I have spoken with some friends from over there and they all laugh at the concept.
And do you think that any huge war that could end the U.S. is going to happen without any nukes flying? I mean seriously. If you do think that then I wish I could live so blissfully unaware of facts...
But, If there is war,and I believed in the cause I would join the military and fight.
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Firstly, foreign investments are not calculated in GDP. Any calcutaion of GDP alone will not give you a clear or balanced understanding of the U.K.s revenue.
Arguably, banking provides 30% of national GVA. That's where the money is made.
I can also provide internet sources to refute yours and state that 75% of UK GDP in 2004 was produced by services and 20% manufacturing. I'll spare you that game of Google tennis. Even the briefest of Google searches would furnish you with a litany of economists agreeing with me that financial sector is the U.K.'s primary source of income. My own sources of course are the ones I go by, not anything I find on the internet. I prefer the real ones that put the money in my bank account.
EU heads always have difficulty swallowing the banking>trade thing. Switzerland makes it's money the same way. Our economies do not function the same way as other European nations, we are in a different line of work. You may have profited from reduced European trade barriers over the last 30 years, but that doesn't mean everyone else has.
While it's not the fault of the EU that the U.K. has a trade defecit with Europe, The EU isn't especially helping. Fault is irrelevant. A loss is a loss. The U.K. makes one on Europe. It's got nothing to do with cheating, respecting or liking eachother as brothers, it's simple maths. We make a loss from trading with you, you make a profit from trading with us. We can afford a trade war with Europe. In fact it would directly benefit us. Obviously the failed Euro federalists aren't exactly in any position to isolate us, but given our circumstance it's never been a threat that has carried any weight. Empty words. It you want to bargain, you have to bring something to the table.
Joining the EEC hasn't proved to be profitable. Our reasons for wanting to join have proved irrelevant. Whether we begged to join, begged you to join, or not, it still hasn't benefited us. Should we lose our membership, there wouldn't be so many tears round here.
Unlike with the EU, Our Trade with the U.S. and the Commonwealth however is very profitable. If your aim, as De Gualles was, is to isolate us from our biggest source of revenue and our cultural heritage and overseas family ties, you are going to have to fight us, and you are going to have to fight us without the profits and taxation you have been making from us. There is no other way. If you wish on the other hands just to sign closer political agreements amongst yourselves and the other federalists, please do. It's not for us to stand between you and something you want. I think, however, you will find it's not just the U.K. that won't be signing up.
Our country has increased in GDP since we joined the Euro, but not through European trade, in spite of it. That has been slowing us down overall, and been directly responsable for the nations largest financial crash in modern history.
I completely Agree with De Gualle, both policies can't merge. Europe will never peacefully unite in the way that you wish for.
But we cannot see how both policies could merge, unless the British assumed again, particularly as regards defense, complete command of themselves, or else if the continentals renounced forever a European Europe.
The people of Europe have voted to renounce it. You can renounce it, or you can keep pushing. I suggest, and hope, you will remember your ancestors.
its not a contest, sure we have issues and its mostly the culture. parents now days aren't raising their children right. i agree we have governmental problems, but what country doesn't? I'm a citizen of the United States of America, i'm free to choose whatever doctor i want, i'm free to choose my healthcare i'm free to be and become whatever i want. I'm Proud to be a Citizen and i wouldn't give it up for anything in the world.
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Russians did get their hands on nuclear technology before the end of the war, and the Germans were pushing their behinds to get their own research through. Niether had the time to get to a working version though.
No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.
Hemingway
My point exactly... They didn't have nukes... They can have the technoligy as much as they like,but if you don't have a working version does it matter?
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No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.
Hemingway
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America = Number 1!
And I'm 100% supportive of it.
Number 1 in all negative aspects of life.
Number 1 in acting powerful when so many other countries are more powerful.
Number 1 in thinking she's God.
Number 1 in trying to influence others based on their own cultures.
Number 1 in making people think its number 1.
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The germans abandoned their project in 1943 after a series of Commando raids in Norway.
About 15 minutes long.
lol... Acually after thinking it over... The war would last about that long :P (or however long it would take nukes to reach eachother). Hope I die before that tho!
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About 15 minutes long.
lol... Acually after thinking it over... The war would last about that long :P (or however long it would take nukes to reach eachother). Hope I die before that tho!
Depending on the distance, its a matter of an hour or so usually. Unfortunately, most countries with nukes have blast bunkers attached to the launch sites, which are also heavily protected, pretty much impossible to take them out. Generals can sit in there for a long time, with nothing living on the surface, launching missile after missile at each other.
No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.
Hemingway
All those services you mention can already be exported and in fact are counted as exports. Look at the webpage I provided you. Of the 347bn $ of merchandise exports, 80.8% are manufactures, that's 280bn. Of the 184bn of services exports, only a maximum of 68.6% can be those services you mention, that's 126bn.
Oh and I don't need to go very far to look for a UK product, my car (nissan) has been made there
That's not the fault of the EU. You have 123bn of deficit, and half of it is produced with the EU. But the EU share over imports and exports of the UK is roughly half. That means that the proportions are mantained quite well, so you simply have a larger deficit with the EU than with anyone because the EU is your largest trading partner, not because we are cheating on you. Basically that means that the problem with your deficit is caused by you, maybe you've had too much inflation over the past years, you've lost productivity, the pound is overvalued or whatever.
We need you more than you need us because you have a trade deficit? man, don't you understand that if you have a deficit its because it's better to buy products from outside the UK?. Try and quit the EU and the WTO and increase your tariffs, the UK's economy is relatively small so there's no way the country can gain from increasing the tariffs even if you consider that the other countries will remain quiet and will not raise their tariffs against the UK products. You know why the 1929 crisis was so bad? because the US increased the tariffs, and the rest of countries did the same against the US, so they had to increase the tariffs again, and again and again... everyone lost. And about the second paragraph... maybe I should remind you that we didn't ask you to get in the EEC so you could pay us to maintain the peace in Europe, it was you that begged us to get in the EEC, begged because there were many europeans that didn't want you to get in for fears that you would boycott the organization from inside by not letting it advance, something you've finally done."What is true, at this very moment, from the economic standpoint, would also be true, eventually, from the political standpoint. The idea, the hope which, from the beginning, led the Six continental countries to unite, tended without any doubt toward the formation of a unit which would be European in all respects, and, because of this would become capable not only of carrying its own weight in production and trade, but also of acting one day politically by itself and for itself toward anyone. Considering the special relations that tic the British to America, with the advantage and also the dependence that results for them; considering the existence of the Commonwealth and their preferential relations with it; considering the special commitment that they still have in various parts of the world and which, basically, distinguishes them from the continentals, we see that the policy of the latter, as soon as they have one, would undoubtedly concur, in certain cases, with the policy of the former. But we cannot see how both policies could merge, unless the British assumed again, particularly as regards defense, complete command of themselves, or else if the continentals renounced forever a European Europe." Comment by Charles de Gaulle.
In fact, de Gaulle vetoed the entry of Britain in the EEC the first two times that you tried to get in, and he was not alone, even Konrad Adenauer (Germany) backed De Gaulle in his decision. But finally when De Gaulle felt from power, you tried again to get in the EEC and your entry was approved.
Do you really think what you write? you got in the EEC when your economy was struggling and lagged behind most of the european economies, now you are doing fairly well and even catched France... but of course it never worked for you, right?No acually I hate the thought of war and anyone being killed... But just looking at history(unless you just want to pretend history never happened) I don't see Europe becoming all one country without war(basicly Germany tried once)... I have spoken with some friends from over there and they all laugh at the concept.
And do you think that any huge war that could end the U.S. is going to happen without any nukes flying? I mean seriously. If you do think that then I wish I could live so blissfully unaware of facts...
But, If there is war,and I believed in the cause I would join the military and fight.
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Arguably, banking provides 30% of national GVA. That's where the money is made.
I can also provide internet sources to refute yours and state that 75% of UK GDP in 2004 was produced by services and 20% manufacturing. I'll spare you that game of Google tennis. Even the briefest of Google searches would furnish you with a litany of economists agreeing with me that financial sector is the U.K.'s primary source of income. My own sources of course are the ones I go by, not anything I find on the internet. I prefer the real ones that put the money in my bank account.
EU heads always have difficulty swallowing the banking>trade thing. Switzerland makes it's money the same way. Our economies do not function the same way as other European nations, we are in a different line of work. You may have profited from reduced European trade barriers over the last 30 years, but that doesn't mean everyone else has.
Joining the EEC hasn't proved to be profitable. Our reasons for wanting to join have proved irrelevant. Whether we begged to join, begged you to join, or not, it still hasn't benefited us. Should we lose our membership, there wouldn't be so many tears round here.
Unlike with the EU, Our Trade with the U.S. and the Commonwealth however is very profitable. If your aim, as De Gualles was, is to isolate us from our biggest source of revenue and our cultural heritage and overseas family ties, you are going to have to fight us, and you are going to have to fight us without the profits and taxation you have been making from us. There is no other way. If you wish on the other hands just to sign closer political agreements amongst yourselves and the other federalists, please do. It's not for us to stand between you and something you want. I think, however, you will find it's not just the U.K. that won't be signing up.
Our country has increased in GDP since we joined the Euro, but not through European trade, in spite of it. That has been slowing us down overall, and been directly responsable for the nations largest financial crash in modern history.
I completely Agree with De Gualle, both policies can't merge. Europe will never peacefully unite in the way that you wish for.
But we cannot see how both policies could merge, unless the British assumed again, particularly as regards defense, complete command of themselves, or else if the continentals renounced forever a European Europe.
The people of Europe have voted to renounce it. You can renounce it, or you can keep pushing. I suggest, and hope, you will remember your ancestors.
its not a contest, sure we have issues and its mostly the culture. parents now days aren't raising their children right. i agree we have governmental problems, but what country doesn't? I'm a citizen of the United States of America, i'm free to choose whatever doctor i want, i'm free to choose my healthcare i'm free to be and become whatever i want. I'm Proud to be a Citizen and i wouldn't give it up for anything in the world.
Gelasius