Originally posted by IdesofMarch Originally posted by Minsc The PVE content in WoW is bland. They use 3 or 4 different quest types over and over and just change the mobs and reward, that's not good content IMO. I can't speak for the PVE in Ryzom as I've never played the game, but yes the PVE in EVE is weak, but it is improving over time and it's not the focus of the game anyways, so it's really not worth focusing on that much because the game is very PVP-centric.
TBH Gameloading, you put far too much stock in what reviewers say, they are just people with opinions, many of them DON'T know wth they are talking about. 9 times out of 10 they are just journalists with absolutely no experience developing games. Like I said, just people with opinions. The only people that I feel have a valid view of what is good game design and what is not is other developers, for everyone else it's just a layman's opinion.
For a good example of a reviewer who doesn't know wtf he's talking about, Roger Ebert actually thought the Star Wars Prequels were good movies when in reality they're just a special effects showcase with bad acting and weak dialogue.
So you're saying you have no valid view of what is good game design and what is not?
Many of us have valid views. They're called opinions. Agree. Disagree. Take em or leave em.
I don't even need to comment on your last paragraph. You have your opinion (which I disagree with) and I have mine. I'll leave it at that instead of telling you that your comments of the movie sound exactly like some negative reviews that I read for Revenge of the Sith.
You're trying to tell me that you though the dialogue in RotS was good, please I'd like to hear this. I saw the movie in the theatre, I was cringing at the horrid dialogue and wooden acting throughout the whole damn movie, and so was everyone else in the theatre. Especially at the ending part. Many of my friends who were die-hard Star Wars fanbois agreed that the movie sucked.
Originally posted by Copeland McDonald's has sold over 20 billion hamburgers. Clearly McDonalds has the best tasting hamburgers. How is it they aren't a 5 star restaurant? Maybe it's because although millions of people will eat a Mcdonalds hamburger because it's easy and familiar they don't feel it's fine dining.
I hate when someone else uses the McDonalds analogy before I get a chance to.
Curse you Copeland. Curse you.
---------------------------------------------- "Some days you just can't get rid of a bomb." -- Batman
Originally posted by Gameloading Originally posted by gestalt11 Originally posted by Gameloading Its the most popular, so its hated the most. its that simple. WoW truly is the mmorpg today with the highest quality. this is proven by the facts its the mmorpg with the highest reviews, most awards, and biggest subscriber base.
Highest quality? That is certainly not proven and is certainly quite debatable. I think reasonable poeple can agree that parts of it are quite high quality for an MMO. But there really are a number of other games that have just as high or higher quality in other aspects. And there are a few games that rival it quality wise in areas where it is strong.
Eve and Ryzom certainly have higher quality Sandbox elements. And, in my opinion, EQ2 is a higher quality game with more features as things currently stand as far as the treadmill instance run games like WoW/EQ2 go.
I don't play either WoW or EQ2 anymore, but I had fun with both. I think EQ2 is all around a higher quality game. Its pvp is also much more thrilling than WoW's.
It has been given these ratings for a reason. lets start with the fact that every mmorpg has downpoints. sure WoW might not give you as much freedom as EVE or Ryzom, but it really makes up for that with the PVE content. not to mention there is plenty of content. EVE and Ryzom might give more freedom, but the PVE, to say it boldly, downright sucks. then, as a reviewer, you have to make a decision what is more important. PVE gameplay (which makes up for a large portion of every mmorpg) or Freedom that is not that great if you take a closer look at it.
reviewers know what the heck they are talking about. same for the award givers. the 7 million subscriber base proves that those reviewers were right. sure you might enjoy game A more then WoW, or maybe you prefer game B, but that is all opinion. reviewers have to look at the quality parts of the game.
So my review is opinion, but the reviewers who agree with you are right because a lot of people bought it. That is silly on many levels.
Secondly it should be obvious that you can't make a blanket statement about quality. Comparing Eve and WoW is apples and orange and if you really want to say one is higher wuality than the other you will have a really really hard time shwoing it. Eve is very high quality. Very high. Both art/design and techinically. The integration of web browser tech and player web pages is really high quality elegant design. WoW's got nothing like it.
Look, I played both EQ2 and WoW for months. I have no axe to grind. EQ2 is a better game in both PvE and PvP. Better graphics, better community, better response from developers, better trends in development, better guild features (levels, banks etc), tons of content, way way way better crafting. The only thing WoW beats it on is the quest system and some better humor (like mechanical yeti quest).
EQ2 is objectively a better game on many levels as it currently stands. And the reviews you mention are not exactly all reliable look at the recent WoW endgame review on this site and then read the comments. Its sad.
People on this boards don't play/like wow so u compare foood with a video-game ...wow u are smart ! 7milion subs ...can't your read ....asia has the same sub plan as eu and us ...yes .the guys who play in inet cafes have acc's just like me ..some people here play wow from a inet cafe and they pay every hour they play + ACCount+ the monthly fee
now for my personal opinion on the matter : Eve online is a screensaver with a monthly fee/ L2P and try not to flame wow because it's more popular then the game u are playing
KTHXBAI & L2FACEtehFACTS
sry for the trash talk but im actualy trying to point out that comparing eve to wow is like comparing wow to mcdonald's
Originally posted by KillerJimmy Originally posted by Souldrainer Because a lot of us have gotten to 60, and feel that although 1-59 game is good, the suck that is 60 and the lack of decent PVP are enough to bring a good game down.
Here, here! lol It's so true it hurts. I had so much fun 1-59, I still say it was one of the most complete feeling MMOs I've ever played in that respect. I raided a lot, got my teir 1 set and my guild was first on our server for almost all MC encounters. But that all was such weak content, that I ended up with 3 level 60 characters (and a 40 and a couple 20s). "PvP" grind? Did that too, got the big mace of doom for my main. Got the black dagger for my rogue alt...
If you really are honest and look at the ratings, it is doing really well. I mean: 8.8 graphics?! Are you kidding me?! 8.8 10 years ago, sure...freaking 1-2 now. Performance/Lag 7.9?! huh? Did these people play on heavy or full servers? Clunky kid graphics and good systems lag so bad they fall into a pit in IF? Little character customization and that is the lag? 7.9 nothing. Community 7.3? lol The WoW community is the worst, most self-destructive/self-hating mmo community I have seen. If I ever see another one like it, I'll probably quit on those grounds alone. Sure there are great guilds and people in the game, but the it's still hard to get past the...the overwhelming crowd attitude. Fun 8.6? I guess I can let that go, since it was such a great game pre-60 and pre-BG. I just the the design evolution has been a downward spiral. I could go on...
Also, the rest of the WoW "community" (i.e. the ones who like raiding or faction grinding) are still playing and probably can't be bothered to come rate it "uber 10" accross the board.
In point of fact, this is in fac the major things. Although I do feel that EQ2 is a superior quality game I think that but for the above statement WoW would still be rated higher than EQ2.
Once upon a time when WoW was new and no one cared too much abotu end game, it was rated quite high on this site, higher than EQ2. About 1.2 years after release, right about when a lot of players became fed up with the end game, and also at the same time EQ2 went through a lot of changes as WoW pummeled it in sales. EQ2 ratings crept up and WoW ratings crept down. At this point in time they have essentially switched places in the ranking from about 1.5 years ago.
If you gauge the atmosphere of the WoW community and community of former WoW player it is easy to see. Many people view of the game chagned to be more negative after experience the WoW endgame. In fact it was so hostile for a while that they actually pretty much forced a chagne in the Expansion (in my opinion). And although that change annoucement caused a drastic drop in the forum whining, many people are still quite pessimistic and unethusiastic.
Many people are and were very fond of WoW, I believe they would have ranked it higher than EQ2 just for that reason whether justified or not. But the end game issues turned many fans away from the game or made downright enemies of some.
Originally posted by gestalt11 Originally posted by Gameloading Originally posted by gestalt11 Originally posted by Gameloading Its the most popular, so its hated the most. its that simple. WoW truly is the mmorpg today with the highest quality. this is proven by the facts its the mmorpg with the highest reviews, most awards, and biggest subscriber base.
Highest quality? That is certainly not proven and is certainly quite debatable. I think reasonable poeple can agree that parts of it are quite high quality for an MMO. But there really are a number of other games that have just as high or higher quality in other aspects. And there are a few games that rival it quality wise in areas where it is strong.
Eve and Ryzom certainly have higher quality Sandbox elements. And, in my opinion, EQ2 is a higher quality game with more features as things currently stand as far as the treadmill instance run games like WoW/EQ2 go.
I don't play either WoW or EQ2 anymore, but I had fun with both. I think EQ2 is all around a higher quality game. Its pvp is also much more thrilling than WoW's.
It has been given these ratings for a reason. lets start with the fact that every mmorpg has downpoints. sure WoW might not give you as much freedom as EVE or Ryzom, but it really makes up for that with the PVE content. not to mention there is plenty of content. EVE and Ryzom might give more freedom, but the PVE, to say it boldly, downright sucks. then, as a reviewer, you have to make a decision what is more important. PVE gameplay (which makes up for a large portion of every mmorpg) or Freedom that is not that great if you take a closer look at it.
reviewers know what the heck they are talking about. same for the award givers. the 7 million subscriber base proves that those reviewers were right. sure you might enjoy game A more then WoW, or maybe you prefer game B, but that is all opinion. reviewers have to look at the quality parts of the game.
So my review is opinion, but the reviewers who agree with you are right because a lot of people bought it. That is silly on many levels.
Secondly it should be obvious that you can't make a blanket statement about quality. Comparing Eve and WoW is apples and orange and if you really want to say one is higher wuality than the other you will have a really really hard time shwoing it. Eve is very high quality. Very high. Both art/design and techinically. The integration of web browser tech and player web pages is really high quality elegant design. WoW's got nothing like it.
Look, I played both EQ2 and WoW for months. I have no axe to grind. EQ2 is a better game in both PvE and PvP. Better graphics, better community, better response from developers, better trends in development, better guild features (levels, banks etc), tons of content, way way way better crafting. The only thing WoW beats it on is the quest system and some better humor (like mechanical yeti quest).
EQ2 is objectively a better game on many levels as it currently stands. And the reviews you mention are not exactly all reliable look at the recent WoW endgame review on this site and then read the comments. Its sad.
You are a fan. its their job. go figure.
even IF a proffesional reviewer don't like the game because its not for him (or her) he still has to give it a high rating and point out the good points, because its his/her JOB. WoW is the ONLY mmorpg that has been praised to heaven in about every magazine/website/program dedicated to games. the majority has spoken, World of Warcraft is number one.
reviews and subscriber base is currently the only way to compare the quality of games. diffrent people like diffrent things, its that simple.
For me it comes down to this. I like to play games for fun. Not for the sense of accomplishment. Fun means different things to different people, of course, but by the time I had reached my mid 40’s in WoW I felt like the whole thing was a big gear / level grindfest. The missions were not compelling enough to keep me running missions, the PvP was not great and instances make baby jesus cry.
I did the level grind thing back in the day when DAoC was new and fresh. The difference being that DAoC has awesome PvP (to this day I understand, though the population has taken a huge hit). In WoW I was left wondering “I’m grinding the next 15 levels for what now? Raids?”
Originally posted by battleaxe22 People on this boards don't play/like wow so u compare foood with a video-game ...wow u are smart ! 7milion subs ...can't your read ....asia has the same sub plan as eu and us ...yes .the guys who play in inet cafes have acc's just like me ..some people here play wow from a inet cafe and they pay every hour they play + ACCount+ the monthly fee
now for my personal opinion on the matter : Eve online is a screensaver with a monthly fee/ L2P and try not to flame wow because it's more popular then the game u are playing
KTHXBAI & L2FACEtehFACTS
sry for the trash talk but im actualy trying to point out that comparing eve to wow is like comparing wow to mcdonald's
Actually I would venture a guess that 50% of the posters on this board played WoW for at least a month.
Originally posted by Gameloading Originally posted by gestalt11 Originally posted by Gameloading Originally posted by gestalt11 Originally posted by Gameloading Its the most popular, so its hated the most. its that simple. WoW truly is the mmorpg today with the highest quality. this is proven by the facts its the mmorpg with the highest reviews, most awards, and biggest subscriber base.
Highest quality? That is certainly not proven and is certainly quite debatable. I think reasonable poeple can agree that parts of it are quite high quality for an MMO. But there really are a number of other games that have just as high or higher quality in other aspects. And there are a few games that rival it quality wise in areas where it is strong.
Eve and Ryzom certainly have higher quality Sandbox elements. And, in my opinion, EQ2 is a higher quality game with more features as things currently stand as far as the treadmill instance run games like WoW/EQ2 go.
I don't play either WoW or EQ2 anymore, but I had fun with both. I think EQ2 is all around a higher quality game. Its pvp is also much more thrilling than WoW's.
It has been given these ratings for a reason. lets start with the fact that every mmorpg has downpoints. sure WoW might not give you as much freedom as EVE or Ryzom, but it really makes up for that with the PVE content. not to mention there is plenty of content. EVE and Ryzom might give more freedom, but the PVE, to say it boldly, downright sucks. then, as a reviewer, you have to make a decision what is more important. PVE gameplay (which makes up for a large portion of every mmorpg) or Freedom that is not that great if you take a closer look at it.
reviewers know what the heck they are talking about. same for the award givers. the 7 million subscriber base proves that those reviewers were right. sure you might enjoy game A more then WoW, or maybe you prefer game B, but that is all opinion. reviewers have to look at the quality parts of the game.
So my review is opinion, but the reviewers who agree with you are right because a lot of people bought it. That is silly on many levels.
Secondly it should be obvious that you can't make a blanket statement about quality. Comparing Eve and WoW is apples and orange and if you really want to say one is higher wuality than the other you will have a really really hard time shwoing it. Eve is very high quality. Very high. Both art/design and techinically. The integration of web browser tech and player web pages is really high quality elegant design. WoW's got nothing like it.
Look, I played both EQ2 and WoW for months. I have no axe to grind. EQ2 is a better game in both PvE and PvP. Better graphics, better community, better response from developers, better trends in development, better guild features (levels, banks etc), tons of content, way way way better crafting. The only thing WoW beats it on is the quest system and some better humor (like mechanical yeti quest).
EQ2 is objectively a better game on many levels as it currently stands. And the reviews you mention are not exactly all reliable look at the recent WoW endgame review on this site and then read the comments. Its sad.
You are a fan. its their job. go figure.
even IF a proffesional reviewer don't like the game because its not for him (or her) he still has to give it a high rating and point out the good points, because its his/her JOB. WoW is the ONLY mmorpg that has been praised to heaven in about every magazine/website/program dedicated to games. the majority has spoken, World of Warcraft is number one.
reviews and subscriber base is currently the only way to compare the quality of games.f diffrent people like diffrent things, its that simple.
First off. I am not a fan. I do not root for any of these games. I don't care.
Secondly you assume I am a layman. I am not. I am a professional.
Third you need to either take or retake a course on economics and markets if you think such thigns are indicative of quality.
It loses points for Customer service, community and Role-playing. I think is important people aren't really ranking the game, but ranking according to this criteria. Those who do better in the criteria are the ones that are top. Guild Wars, for instance has a massive gain of 0.6 just due to graphics.
Not defending WoW but as I said earlier I think if you look at the top games list it doesn't include any of the other classics thereby not really being a definitive top 10 ranked mmorpgs, but more because of the rankings will be more likely the newer offerings which to be fair should probably include WoW.
Originally posted by sly220 Let me give you my take on WoW its WoW this and WoW that alot of ppl are tired of all this WoW stuff.... WOW the inavator of MMOs or how about WoW this many ppl on at one time just gets kinda old.. thats Y its not one of the BEST MMOs is the easiest MMO
There are a lot of people tired of Eve fanbois, but it didn't take the hit that WoW did over the last year. I will grant you that Blizzard fanbois are one of the most hated kinds of fanbois. But it would seem to have to be more than just a war of fanbois.
Originally posted by gestalt11 Originally posted by Gameloading Originally posted by gestalt11 Originally posted by Gameloading Originally posted by gestalt11 Originally posted by Gameloading Its the most popular, so its hated the most. its that simple. WoW truly is the mmorpg today with the highest quality. this is proven by the facts its the mmorpg with the highest reviews, most awards, and biggest subscriber base.
Highest quality? That is certainly not proven and is certainly quite debatable. I think reasonable poeple can agree that parts of it are quite high quality for an MMO. But there really are a number of other games that have just as high or higher quality in other aspects. And there are a few games that rival it quality wise in areas where it is strong.
Eve and Ryzom certainly have higher quality Sandbox elements. And, in my opinion, EQ2 is a higher quality game with more features as things currently stand as far as the treadmill instance run games like WoW/EQ2 go.
I don't play either WoW or EQ2 anymore, but I had fun with both. I think EQ2 is all around a higher quality game. Its pvp is also much more thrilling than WoW's.
It has been given these ratings for a reason. lets start with the fact that every mmorpg has downpoints. sure WoW might not give you as much freedom as EVE or Ryzom, but it really makes up for that with the PVE content. not to mention there is plenty of content. EVE and Ryzom might give more freedom, but the PVE, to say it boldly, downright sucks. then, as a reviewer, you have to make a decision what is more important. PVE gameplay (which makes up for a large portion of every mmorpg) or Freedom that is not that great if you take a closer look at it.
reviewers know what the heck they are talking about. same for the award givers. the 7 million subscriber base proves that those reviewers were right. sure you might enjoy game A more then WoW, or maybe you prefer game B, but that is all opinion. reviewers have to look at the quality parts of the game.
So my review is opinion, but the reviewers who agree with you are right because a lot of people bought it. That is silly on many levels.
Secondly it should be obvious that you can't make a blanket statement about quality. Comparing Eve and WoW is apples and orange and if you really want to say one is higher wuality than the other you will have a really really hard time shwoing it. Eve is very high quality. Very high. Both art/design and techinically. The integration of web browser tech and player web pages is really high quality elegant design. WoW's got nothing like it.
Look, I played both EQ2 and WoW for months. I have no axe to grind. EQ2 is a better game in both PvE and PvP. Better graphics, better community, better response from developers, better trends in development, better guild features (levels, banks etc), tons of content, way way way better crafting. The only thing WoW beats it on is the quest system and some better humor (like mechanical yeti quest).
EQ2 is objectively a better game on many levels as it currently stands. And the reviews you mention are not exactly all reliable look at the recent WoW endgame review on this site and then read the comments. Its sad.
You are a fan. its their job. go figure.
even IF a proffesional reviewer don't like the game because its not for him (or her) he still has to give it a high rating and point out the good points, because its his/her JOB. WoW is the ONLY mmorpg that has been praised to heaven in about every magazine/website/program dedicated to games. the majority has spoken, World of Warcraft is number one.
reviews and subscriber base is currently the only way to compare the quality of games.f diffrent people like diffrent things, its that simple.
First off. I am not a fan. I do not root for any of these games. I don't care.
Secondly you assume I am a layman. I am not. I am a professional.
Third you need to either take or retake a course on economics and markets if you think such thigns are indicative of quality.
Really? I was under the impression you were a fan of MMORPG gaming?
Well mr Professional, I geuss you would be happy to show me some of your professional reviews?
Oh, I have to re-take a course on economics and markets? sure mate, sure.
I think it would be better if you learned the diffrence between "Not so good game" and "Not for me". there is a huge diffrence. If you have any better ways to prove that a diffrent MMO then WoW is the best, then by all means, post it here. although I seriously doubt it will be more then: "I don't like this and I like that feature in game A better"
Anyway my point was that the rankings system according to mmorpg.com is based around criteria rather than users ranking. Its which mmorpgs gain the most points in different criteria that will do better, Guild Wars for instance takes a gain of 0.6 over WoW for graphics.
Not defending WoW but I think the list doesn't really present a definitive list of the top ranked mmorpgs, but a list which is more likely to put the most popular played mmorpgs of the moment of which should probably include WoW. In fact, it is there really as it has a score of 8.1 which is enough to put it in.
As to reviews and the biggest subscriber base, the biggest subscriber base could simply be because of it's fun element and Blizzard brandname which has done enough to pull in a lot of usual console players. And reviews, I think WoW should be given some credit because it had a very good launch. Other mmorpgs may have had a bad launch and lost some credibility to potential reviewers, not only that I don't think many reviewers would have played the mmorpg all the way through which to be fair is in my opinion a better reflection of a score a mmorpg should get.
imo wow isnt rated high on mmorpg because the people that play it plain and simple, just dont care. They have so many people playing the game, why try to boost its rateing to get it on top? look at all the games on top, they arent most populated games, but people in those games vote, because they want more players. Those people will also vote against wow or any other game to lower its rateing, but thats just my opinion
Originally posted by Gameloading Originally posted by gestalt11 First off. I am not a fan. I do not root for any of these games. I don't care.
Secondly you assume I am a layman. I am not. I am a professional.
Third you need to either take or retake a course on economics and markets if you think such thigns are indicative of quality.
Really? I was under the impression you were a fan of MMORPG gaming?
Well mr Professional, I geuss you would be happy to show me some of your professional reviews?
Oh, I have to re-take a course on economics and markets? sure mate, sure.
I think it would be better if you learned the diffrence between "Not so good game" and "Not for me". there is a huge diffrence. If you have any better ways to prove that a diffrent MMO then WoW is the best, then by all means, post it here. although I seriously doubt it will be more then: "I don't like this and I like that feature in game A better"
You may take the economics quip as insulting, but it is the truth. What you are doing is a classic mistake in economics. Something that any half way decent teacher always warns students about and usually spends at least one classes going over.
Originally posted by gestalt11 Originally posted by Gameloading Originally posted by gestalt11 First off. I am not a fan. I do not root for any of these games. I don't care.
Secondly you assume I am a layman. I am not. I am a professional.
Third you need to either take or retake a course on economics and markets if you think such thigns are indicative of quality.
Really? I was under the impression you were a fan of MMORPG gaming?
Well mr Professional, I geuss you would be happy to show me some of your professional reviews?
Oh, I have to re-take a course on economics and markets? sure mate, sure.
I think it would be better if you learned the diffrence between "Not so good game" and "Not for me". there is a huge diffrence. If you have any better ways to prove that a diffrent MMO then WoW is the best, then by all means, post it here. although I seriously doubt it will be more then: "I don't like this and I like that feature in game A better"
You may take the economics quip as insulting, but it is the truth. What you are doing is a classic mistake in economics. Something that any half way decent teacher always warns students about and usually spends at least one classes going over.
I made a classic mistake in economics, sure thing.
but the thing is, I am NOT talking about economics. I am talking about the quality of the game. and I wonder what this decent teacher wil tell me. "Look son, millions of people love to play WoW, it received the highest ratings, the most awards, and the most players, but its not the best game, because I say so"
It is not rated higher becaues the hardcore game players that come to this site won't give it a high rating. This is because it is popular with the masses. And anything that is popular with the masses isn't cool. Therefore, the ratings are lowered as a result.
PvE content in EVE is non-existant. The game, however, is hardcore and this means a lot of people from mmorpg (hardcore gamers) are attracted to it thus its high rating.
Guild Wars while a good game really isn't even an MMOG so I'm not sure why its even listed. It is a fun game however.
Ryzom has no PvE and no meaninful PvP. It is a "sandbox" game. Its a sit and chat type of game. Its a niche game and attracts more of the role players. A more mature audience that is likely to frequent this web site and thus drive up the score.
EQII and DAoC are both good games. However, the PvP in EQII is not good. When you look at the top 100 PvP list and over 85% are from the scout class you may have a balance problem. In this game a single class type, the scout, is given access to not only stealth but also tracking and the ability to evac out of a fight if its not going well. The ultimate ganking class with no real counterpart. Also the PvP lacks any real meaning. Its just a run around and kill people type of PvP that brings little to the table. I'm getting off topic a bit but the PvP in this game is probably what is driving up the score among the MMORPG crowd.
DAoC is flat out good. Good PvE and good PvP. One of the best MMOG's ever made. It has attractive PvP to hardcore gamers and deserves to be even higher on the list.
CoV and CoV are really fun games. The PvE is thin and the PvP is fairly unbalanced but the game itself is pretty fun. I would imagine if it was more of a success (not to say its unsuccessful) then it would fall off the top 7 list. It is just unpopular enough to stay trendy with the MMORPG crowd.
Originally posted by Jade6 Originally posted by Shrimp10 And it isn't one of the best either, really.
Hey Shrimp, just a little observation - your own signature says: "Best MMOs - RuneScape and WoW".
I know this wast posted ages ago, but I'll respond anyway.
RS and WoW are the best MMO's I've played SO FAR, so saying that in my sig doesn't exactly mean I think they are the best MMO's out there.
Best MMOs - RuneScape and WoW Crappiest MMOs - Hero Online, SWG, DDO MMO's played - RS, WoW, GW, EVE, AO, PlanetSide, Jumpgate, Face of Mankind, MapleStory, SO, Liniege 1 & 2, City of Villains, Flyff, Realm Online, SWG, Seed, Sims Online, City of Heroes.
98% of the teenage population does or has tried smoking pot. If you're one of the 2% who hasn't, copy & paste this in your signature. ----
Originally posted by PB&J It is not rated higher becaues the hardcore game players that come to this site won't give it a high rating. This is because it is popular with the masses. And anything that is popular with the masses isn't cool. Therefore, the ratings are lowered as a result.
PvE content in EVE is non-existant. The game, however, is hardcore and this means a lot of people from mmorpg (hardcore gamers) are attracted to it thus its high rating.
Guild Wars while a good game really isn't even an MMOG so I'm not sure why its even listed. It is a fun game however.
Ryzom has no PvE and no meaninful PvP. It is a "sandbox" game. Its a sit and chat type of game. Its a niche game and attracts more of the role players. A more mature audience that is likely to frequent this web site and thus drive up the score.
EQII and DAoC are both good games. However, the PvP in EQII is not good. When you look at the top 100 PvP list and over 85% are from the scout class you may have a balance problem. In this game a single class type, the scout, is given access to not only stealth but also tracking and the ability to evac out of a fight if its not going well. The ultimate ganking class with no real counterpart. Also the PvP lacks any real meaning. Its just a run around and kill people type of PvP that brings little to the table. I'm getting off topic a bit but the PvP in this game is probably what is driving up the score among the MMORPG crowd.
DAoC is flat out good. Good PvE and good PvP. One of the best MMOG's ever made. It has attractive PvP to hardcore gamers and deserves to be even higher on the list.
CoV and CoV are really fun games. The PvE is thin and the PvP is fairly unbalanced but the game itself is pretty fun. I would imagine if it was more of a success (not to say its unsuccessful) then it would fall off the top 7 list. It is just unpopular enough to stay trendy with the MMORPG crowd.
I don't think your characterization of Eve as a hardcore game is accurate. At least in the sense people use "hardcore" when talking about say Vanguard.
You could never login to Eve except to assign training (literally maybe 5 hours of time over a year) and have a pretty good skill set going, and with those skills you could run missions for a fairly negligible amount of time to get a pretty well tricked out ship wise.
I'm not saying this is good or bad, but a lot of Eve people actually play the game because it can be done non-hardcore and still be quite competitive. That doesn't mean going all hardcore doesn't have its advantages etc. And Eve may attract a hardcore crowd as well. But I think games like Vanguard are more of a magnet for the crowd you are talking about.
"but the thing is, I am NOT talking about economics. I am talking about the quality of the game. and I wonder what this decent teacher wil tell me. "Look son, millions of people love to play WoW, it received the highest ratings, the most awards, and the most players, but its not the best game, because I say so"
Good thing you think Harry Potter is the best book eh. And most awards? Your source?
I think the reason for that is most of the people like wow when they start playing. but they get bored of it as soon as they level up. So lots ot people rate it but for a sort period of time.
Originally posted by nomadian "but the thing is, I am NOT talking about economics. I am talking about the quality of the game. and I wonder what this decent teacher wil tell me. "Look son, millions of people love to play WoW, it received the highest ratings, the most awards, and the most players, but its not the best game, because I say so"
Good thing you think Harry Potter is the best book eh. And most awards? Your source?
Not much point it arguing with him. He talks about sales and consumer choice proving quality and then tries to say he is not talking about economic principles.
Comments
So you're saying you have no valid view of what is good game design and what is not?
Many of us have valid views. They're called opinions. Agree. Disagree. Take em or leave em.
I don't even need to comment on your last paragraph. You have your opinion (which I disagree with) and I have mine. I'll leave it at that instead of telling you that your comments of the movie sound exactly like some negative reviews that I read for Revenge of the Sith.
You're trying to tell me that you though the dialogue in RotS was good, please I'd like to hear this. I saw the movie in the theatre, I was cringing at the horrid dialogue and wooden acting throughout the whole damn movie, and so was everyone else in the theatre. Especially at the ending part. Many of my friends who were die-hard Star Wars fanbois agreed that the movie sucked.
I hate when someone else uses the McDonalds analogy before I get a chance to.
Curse you Copeland. Curse you.
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"Some days you just can't get rid of a bomb." -- Batman
Highest quality? That is certainly not proven and is certainly quite debatable. I think reasonable poeple can agree that parts of it are quite high quality for an MMO. But there really are a number of other games that have just as high or higher quality in other aspects. And there are a few games that rival it quality wise in areas where it is strong.
Eve and Ryzom certainly have higher quality Sandbox elements. And, in my opinion, EQ2 is a higher quality game with more features as things currently stand as far as the treadmill instance run games like WoW/EQ2 go.
I don't play either WoW or EQ2 anymore, but I had fun with both. I think EQ2 is all around a higher quality game. Its pvp is also much more thrilling than WoW's.
It has been given these ratings for a reason. lets start with the fact that every mmorpg has downpoints. sure WoW might not give you as much freedom as EVE or Ryzom, but it really makes up for that with the PVE content. not to mention there is plenty of content. EVE and Ryzom might give more freedom, but the PVE, to say it boldly, downright sucks. then, as a reviewer, you have to make a decision what is more important. PVE gameplay (which makes up for a large portion of every mmorpg) or Freedom that is not that great if you take a closer look at it.
reviewers know what the heck they are talking about. same for the award givers. the 7 million subscriber base proves that those reviewers were right. sure you might enjoy game A more then WoW, or maybe you prefer game B, but that is all opinion. reviewers have to look at the quality parts of the game.
So my review is opinion, but the reviewers who agree with you are right because a lot of people bought it. That is silly on many levels.
Secondly it should be obvious that you can't make a blanket statement about quality. Comparing Eve and WoW is apples and orange and if you really want to say one is higher wuality than the other you will have a really really hard time shwoing it. Eve is very high quality. Very high. Both art/design and techinically. The integration of web browser tech and player web pages is really high quality elegant design. WoW's got nothing like it.
Look, I played both EQ2 and WoW for months. I have no axe to grind. EQ2 is a better game in both PvE and PvP. Better graphics, better community, better response from developers, better trends in development, better guild features (levels, banks etc), tons of content, way way way better crafting. The only thing WoW beats it on is the quest system and some better humor (like mechanical yeti quest).
EQ2 is objectively a better game on many levels as it currently stands. And the reviews you mention are not exactly all reliable look at the recent WoW endgame review on this site and then read the comments. Its sad.
People on this boards don't play/like wow
so u compare foood with a video-game ...wow u are smart !
7milion subs ...can't your read ....asia has the same sub plan as eu and us ...yes .the guys who play in inet cafes have acc's just like me ..some people here play wow from a inet cafe and they pay every hour they play + ACCount+ the monthly fee
now for my personal opinion on the matter : Eve online is a screensaver with a monthly fee/
L2P and try not to flame wow because it's more popular then the game u are playing
KTHXBAI & L2FACEtehFACTS
sry for the trash talk but im actualy trying to point out that comparing eve to wow is like comparing wow to mcdonald's
Here, here! lol It's so true it hurts. I had so much fun 1-59, I still say it was one of the most complete feeling MMOs I've ever played in that respect. I raided a lot, got my teir 1 set and my guild was first on our server for almost all MC encounters. But that all was such weak content, that I ended up with 3 level 60 characters (and a 40 and a couple 20s). "PvP" grind? Did that too, got the big mace of doom for my main. Got the black dagger for my rogue alt...
If you really are honest and look at the ratings, it is doing really well. I mean: 8.8 graphics?! Are you kidding me?! 8.8 10 years ago, sure...freaking 1-2 now. Performance/Lag 7.9?! huh? Did these people play on heavy or full servers? Clunky kid graphics and good systems lag so bad they fall into a pit in IF? Little character customization and that is the lag? 7.9 nothing. Community 7.3? lol The WoW community is the worst, most self-destructive/self-hating mmo community I have seen. If I ever see another one like it, I'll probably quit on those grounds alone. Sure there are great guilds and people in the game, but the it's still hard to get past the...the overwhelming crowd attitude. Fun 8.6? I guess I can let that go, since it was such a great game pre-60 and pre-BG. I just the the design evolution has been a downward spiral. I could go on...
Also, the rest of the WoW "community" (i.e. the ones who like raiding or faction grinding) are still playing and probably can't be bothered to come rate it "uber 10" accross the board.
In point of fact, this is in fac the major things. Although I do feel that EQ2 is a superior quality game I think that but for the above statement WoW would still be rated higher than EQ2.
Once upon a time when WoW was new and no one cared too much abotu end game, it was rated quite high on this site, higher than EQ2. About 1.2 years after release, right about when a lot of players became fed up with the end game, and also at the same time EQ2 went through a lot of changes as WoW pummeled it in sales. EQ2 ratings crept up and WoW ratings crept down. At this point in time they have essentially switched places in the ranking from about 1.5 years ago.
If you gauge the atmosphere of the WoW community and community of former WoW player it is easy to see. Many people view of the game chagned to be more negative after experience the WoW endgame. In fact it was so hostile for a while that they actually pretty much forced a chagne in the Expansion (in my opinion). And although that change annoucement caused a drastic drop in the forum whining, many people are still quite pessimistic and unethusiastic.
Many people are and were very fond of WoW, I believe they would have ranked it higher than EQ2 just for that reason whether justified or not. But the end game issues turned many fans away from the game or made downright enemies of some.
Let me give you my take on WoW its WoW this and WoW that alot of ppl are tired of all this WoW stuff....
WOW the inavator of MMOs or how about WoW this many ppl on at one time just gets kinda old.. thats Y its not one of the BEST MMOs is the easiest MMO
Highest quality? That is certainly not proven and is certainly quite debatable. I think reasonable poeple can agree that parts of it are quite high quality for an MMO. But there really are a number of other games that have just as high or higher quality in other aspects. And there are a few games that rival it quality wise in areas where it is strong.
Eve and Ryzom certainly have higher quality Sandbox elements. And, in my opinion, EQ2 is a higher quality game with more features as things currently stand as far as the treadmill instance run games like WoW/EQ2 go.
I don't play either WoW or EQ2 anymore, but I had fun with both. I think EQ2 is all around a higher quality game. Its pvp is also much more thrilling than WoW's.
It has been given these ratings for a reason. lets start with the fact that every mmorpg has downpoints. sure WoW might not give you as much freedom as EVE or Ryzom, but it really makes up for that with the PVE content. not to mention there is plenty of content. EVE and Ryzom might give more freedom, but the PVE, to say it boldly, downright sucks. then, as a reviewer, you have to make a decision what is more important. PVE gameplay (which makes up for a large portion of every mmorpg) or Freedom that is not that great if you take a closer look at it.
reviewers know what the heck they are talking about. same for the award givers. the 7 million subscriber base proves that those reviewers were right. sure you might enjoy game A more then WoW, or maybe you prefer game B, but that is all opinion. reviewers have to look at the quality parts of the game.
So my review is opinion, but the reviewers who agree with you are right because a lot of people bought it. That is silly on many levels.
Secondly it should be obvious that you can't make a blanket statement about quality. Comparing Eve and WoW is apples and orange and if you really want to say one is higher wuality than the other you will have a really really hard time shwoing it. Eve is very high quality. Very high. Both art/design and techinically. The integration of web browser tech and player web pages is really high quality elegant design. WoW's got nothing like it.
Look, I played both EQ2 and WoW for months. I have no axe to grind. EQ2 is a better game in both PvE and PvP. Better graphics, better community, better response from developers, better trends in development, better guild features (levels, banks etc), tons of content, way way way better crafting. The only thing WoW beats it on is the quest system and some better humor (like mechanical yeti quest).
EQ2 is objectively a better game on many levels as it currently stands. And the reviews you mention are not exactly all reliable look at the recent WoW endgame review on this site and then read the comments. Its sad.
You are a fan. its their job. go figure.
even IF a proffesional reviewer don't like the game because its not for him (or her) he still has to give it a high rating and point out the good points, because its his/her JOB. WoW is the ONLY mmorpg that has been praised to heaven in about every magazine/website/program dedicated to games. the majority has spoken, World of Warcraft is number one.
reviews and subscriber base is currently the only way to compare the quality of games. diffrent people like diffrent things, its that simple.
For me it comes down to this. I like to play games for fun. Not for the sense of accomplishment. Fun means different things to different
people, of course, but by the time I had reached my mid 40’s in WoW I felt like
the whole thing was a big gear / level grindfest. The missions were not compelling enough to
keep me running missions, the PvP was not great and instances make baby jesus
cry.
I did the level grind thing back in the day when DAoC was
new and fresh. The difference being that
DAoC has awesome PvP (to this day I understand, though the population has taken
a huge hit). In WoW I was left wondering
“I’m grinding the next 15 levels for what now?
Raids?”
No thanks.Highest quality? That is certainly not proven and is certainly quite debatable. I think reasonable poeple can agree that parts of it are quite high quality for an MMO. But there really are a number of other games that have just as high or higher quality in other aspects. And there are a few games that rival it quality wise in areas where it is strong.
Eve and Ryzom certainly have higher quality Sandbox elements. And, in my opinion, EQ2 is a higher quality game with more features as things currently stand as far as the treadmill instance run games like WoW/EQ2 go.
I don't play either WoW or EQ2 anymore, but I had fun with both. I think EQ2 is all around a higher quality game. Its pvp is also much more thrilling than WoW's.
It has been given these ratings for a reason. lets start with the fact that every mmorpg has downpoints. sure WoW might not give you as much freedom as EVE or Ryzom, but it really makes up for that with the PVE content. not to mention there is plenty of content. EVE and Ryzom might give more freedom, but the PVE, to say it boldly, downright sucks. then, as a reviewer, you have to make a decision what is more important. PVE gameplay (which makes up for a large portion of every mmorpg) or Freedom that is not that great if you take a closer look at it.
reviewers know what the heck they are talking about. same for the award givers. the 7 million subscriber base proves that those reviewers were right. sure you might enjoy game A more then WoW, or maybe you prefer game B, but that is all opinion. reviewers have to look at the quality parts of the game.
So my review is opinion, but the reviewers who agree with you are right because a lot of people bought it. That is silly on many levels.
Secondly it should be obvious that you can't make a blanket statement about quality. Comparing Eve and WoW is apples and orange and if you really want to say one is higher wuality than the other you will have a really really hard time shwoing it. Eve is very high quality. Very high. Both art/design and techinically. The integration of web browser tech and player web pages is really high quality elegant design. WoW's got nothing like it.
Look, I played both EQ2 and WoW for months. I have no axe to grind. EQ2 is a better game in both PvE and PvP. Better graphics, better community, better response from developers, better trends in development, better guild features (levels, banks etc), tons of content, way way way better crafting. The only thing WoW beats it on is the quest system and some better humor (like mechanical yeti quest).
EQ2 is objectively a better game on many levels as it currently stands. And the reviews you mention are not exactly all reliable look at the recent WoW endgame review on this site and then read the comments. Its sad.
You are a fan. its their job. go figure.
even IF a proffesional reviewer don't like the game because its not for him (or her) he still has to give it a high rating and point out the good points, because its his/her JOB. WoW is the ONLY mmorpg that has been praised to heaven in about every magazine/website/program dedicated to games. the majority has spoken, World of Warcraft is number one.
reviews and subscriber base is currently the only way to compare the quality of games.f diffrent people like diffrent things, its that simple.
First off. I am not a fan. I do not root for any of these games. I don't care.
Secondly you assume I am a layman. I am not. I am a professional.
Third you need to either take or retake a course on economics and markets if you think such thigns are indicative of quality.
It loses points for Customer service, community and Role-playing. I think is important people aren't really ranking the game, but ranking according to this criteria. Those who do better in the criteria are the ones that are top. Guild Wars, for instance has a massive gain of 0.6 just due to graphics.
Not defending WoW but as I said earlier I think if you look at the top games list it doesn't include any of the other classics thereby not really being a definitive top 10 ranked mmorpgs, but more because of the rankings will be more likely the newer offerings which to be fair should probably include WoW.
Highest quality? That is certainly not proven and is certainly quite debatable. I think reasonable poeple can agree that parts of it are quite high quality for an MMO. But there really are a number of other games that have just as high or higher quality in other aspects. And there are a few games that rival it quality wise in areas where it is strong.
Eve and Ryzom certainly have higher quality Sandbox elements. And, in my opinion, EQ2 is a higher quality game with more features as things currently stand as far as the treadmill instance run games like WoW/EQ2 go.
I don't play either WoW or EQ2 anymore, but I had fun with both. I think EQ2 is all around a higher quality game. Its pvp is also much more thrilling than WoW's.
It has been given these ratings for a reason. lets start with the fact that every mmorpg has downpoints. sure WoW might not give you as much freedom as EVE or Ryzom, but it really makes up for that with the PVE content. not to mention there is plenty of content. EVE and Ryzom might give more freedom, but the PVE, to say it boldly, downright sucks. then, as a reviewer, you have to make a decision what is more important. PVE gameplay (which makes up for a large portion of every mmorpg) or Freedom that is not that great if you take a closer look at it.
reviewers know what the heck they are talking about. same for the award givers. the 7 million subscriber base proves that those reviewers were right. sure you might enjoy game A more then WoW, or maybe you prefer game B, but that is all opinion. reviewers have to look at the quality parts of the game.
So my review is opinion, but the reviewers who agree with you are right because a lot of people bought it. That is silly on many levels.
Secondly it should be obvious that you can't make a blanket statement about quality. Comparing Eve and WoW is apples and orange and if you really want to say one is higher wuality than the other you will have a really really hard time shwoing it. Eve is very high quality. Very high. Both art/design and techinically. The integration of web browser tech and player web pages is really high quality elegant design. WoW's got nothing like it.
Look, I played both EQ2 and WoW for months. I have no axe to grind. EQ2 is a better game in both PvE and PvP. Better graphics, better community, better response from developers, better trends in development, better guild features (levels, banks etc), tons of content, way way way better crafting. The only thing WoW beats it on is the quest system and some better humor (like mechanical yeti quest).
EQ2 is objectively a better game on many levels as it currently stands. And the reviews you mention are not exactly all reliable look at the recent WoW endgame review on this site and then read the comments. Its sad.
You are a fan. its their job. go figure.
even IF a proffesional reviewer don't like the game because its not for him (or her) he still has to give it a high rating and point out the good points, because its his/her JOB. WoW is the ONLY mmorpg that has been praised to heaven in about every magazine/website/program dedicated to games. the majority has spoken, World of Warcraft is number one.
reviews and subscriber base is currently the only way to compare the quality of games.f diffrent people like diffrent things, its that simple.
First off. I am not a fan. I do not root for any of these games. I don't care.
Secondly you assume I am a layman. I am not. I am a professional.
Third you need to either take or retake a course on economics and markets if you think such thigns are indicative of quality.
Really? I was under the impression you were a fan of MMORPG gaming?
Well mr Professional, I geuss you would be happy to show me some of your professional reviews?
Oh, I have to re-take a course on economics and markets? sure mate, sure.
I think it would be better if you learned the diffrence between "Not so good game" and "Not for me". there is a huge diffrence. If you have any better ways to prove that a diffrent MMO then WoW is the best, then by all means, post it here. although I seriously doubt it will be more then: "I don't like this and I like that feature in game A better"
Anyway my point was that the rankings system according to mmorpg.com is based around criteria rather than users ranking. Its which mmorpgs gain the most points in different criteria that will do better, Guild Wars for instance takes a gain of 0.6 over WoW for graphics.
Not defending WoW but I think the list doesn't really present a definitive list of the top ranked mmorpgs, but a list which is more likely to put the most popular played mmorpgs of the moment of which should probably include WoW. In fact, it is there really as it has a score of 8.1 which is enough to put it in.
As to reviews and the biggest subscriber base, the biggest subscriber base could simply be because of it's fun element and Blizzard brandname which has done enough to pull in a lot of usual console players. And reviews, I think WoW should be given some credit because it had a very good launch. Other mmorpgs may have had a bad launch and lost some credibility to potential reviewers, not only that I don't think many reviewers would have played the mmorpg all the way through which to be fair is in my opinion a better reflection of a score a mmorpg should get.
Well mr Professional, I geuss you would be happy to show me some of your professional reviews?
Oh, I have to re-take a course on economics and markets? sure mate, sure.
I think it would be better if you learned the diffrence between "Not so good game" and "Not for me". there is a huge diffrence. If you have any better ways to prove that a diffrent MMO then WoW is the best, then by all means, post it here. although I seriously doubt it will be more then: "I don't like this and I like that feature in game A better"
You may take the economics quip as insulting, but it is the truth. What you are doing is a classic mistake in economics. Something that any half way decent teacher always warns students about and usually spends at least one classes going over.
Well mr Professional, I geuss you would be happy to show me some of your professional reviews?
Oh, I have to re-take a course on economics and markets? sure mate, sure.
I think it would be better if you learned the diffrence between "Not so good game" and "Not for me". there is a huge diffrence. If you have any better ways to prove that a diffrent MMO then WoW is the best, then by all means, post it here. although I seriously doubt it will be more then: "I don't like this and I like that feature in game A better"
You may take the economics quip as insulting, but it is the truth. What you are doing is a classic mistake in economics. Something that any half way decent teacher always warns students about and usually spends at least one classes going over.
I made a classic mistake in economics, sure thing.
but the thing is, I am NOT talking about economics. I am talking about the quality of the game. and I wonder what this decent teacher wil tell me. "Look son, millions of people love to play WoW, it received the highest ratings, the most awards, and the most players, but its not the best game, because I say so"
gg teacher.
PvE content in EVE is non-existant. The game, however, is hardcore and this means a lot of people from mmorpg (hardcore gamers) are attracted to it thus its high rating.
Guild Wars while a good game really isn't even an MMOG so I'm not sure why its even listed. It is a fun game however.
Ryzom has no PvE and no meaninful PvP. It is a "sandbox" game. Its a sit and chat type of game. Its a niche game and attracts more of the role players. A more mature audience that is likely to frequent this web site and thus drive up the score.
EQII and DAoC are both good games. However, the PvP in EQII is not good. When you look at the top 100 PvP list and over 85% are from the scout class you may have a balance problem. In this game a single class type, the scout, is given access to not only stealth but also tracking and the ability to evac out of a fight if its not going well. The ultimate ganking class with no real counterpart. Also the PvP lacks any real meaning. Its just a run around and kill people type of PvP that brings little to the table. I'm getting off topic a bit but the PvP in this game is probably what is driving up the score among the MMORPG crowd.
DAoC is flat out good. Good PvE and good PvP. One of the best MMOG's ever made. It has attractive PvP to hardcore gamers and deserves to be even higher on the list.
CoV and CoV are really fun games. The PvE is thin and the PvP is fairly unbalanced but the game itself is pretty fun. I would imagine if it was more of a success (not to say its unsuccessful) then it would fall off the top 7 list. It is just unpopular enough to stay trendy with the MMORPG crowd.
I know this wast posted ages ago, but I'll respond anyway.
RS and WoW are the best MMO's I've played SO FAR, so saying that in my sig doesn't exactly mean I think they are the best MMO's out there.
Best MMOs - RuneScape and WoW
Crappiest MMOs - Hero Online, SWG, DDO
MMO's played - RS, WoW, GW, EVE, AO, PlanetSide, Jumpgate, Face of Mankind, MapleStory, SO, Liniege 1 & 2, City of Villains, Flyff, Realm Online, SWG, Seed, Sims Online, City of Heroes.
98% of the teenage population does or has tried smoking pot. If you're one of the 2% who hasn't, copy & paste this in your signature.
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You could never login to Eve except to assign training (literally maybe 5 hours of time over a year) and have a pretty good skill set going, and with those skills you could run missions for a fairly negligible amount of time to get a pretty well tricked out ship wise.
I'm not saying this is good or bad, but a lot of Eve people actually play the game because it can be done non-hardcore and still be quite competitive. That doesn't mean going all hardcore doesn't have its advantages etc. And Eve may attract a hardcore crowd as well. But I think games like Vanguard are more of a magnet for the crowd you are talking about.
the quality of the game. and I wonder what this decent teacher wil tell
me. "Look son, millions of people love to play WoW, it received the
highest ratings, the most awards, and the most players, but its not the
best game, because I say so"
Good thing you think Harry Potter is the best book eh. And most awards? Your source?
I think the reason for that is most of the people like wow when they start playing. but they get bored of it as soon as they level up. So lots ot people rate it but for a sort period of time.