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What do you think of the "monster" PvP thing?
Domenicus
Member UncommonPosts: 290
I think that Turbine has proven that they *really* dont know what a player want. Now to make PvP you need to transform yourself in a ....'monster'? Well, I am not even start to mention how short-sighted it is to call Orcs, Trolls, etc... 'monsters''' in a complex world like Tolkien's reakm. And EVERY PvPer like to play his character, to test it against others, I do not want to became a 'monster' to PvP. I want my Elf, my Dwarf, to fight on PvP...
Is there any way to get the wonderful Tolkien world out of turbine's hand?
Is there any way to get the wonderful Tolkien world out of turbine's hand?
Comments
I personally think its a good medium for Carebears and "Hardcore players"
Carebears dont want PvP and you do so no you have to transform into a monster... sux huh.. i think its very innovating its new and you cant sit in a lower lvl zone and just pick off lower lvl players you accually have to go a PvP spacific zone and try you hand when ppl are looking for it no backstabbing them sorry had some bad exsperiances so you know were i sit 
... just my thoughts though i personally like it 
I disagree with you. It is a good system that will prevent the fighting in the community on which class is best and which class needs balancing. We also know how the story ends and how each battle turns out by reading the books. It would be against Tolkien lore to have Orcs and what not sacking villages and winning battles that never even occured during the timeline.
PvP out right ruins a game, because people end up name calling and smack talking and it turns into a competition to max out your character. There are plenty of games out there to where you can do that. This game is centered around providing a LOTR experience, so that you can immerse yourself in the world...not pwn the Hobbit or Orc.
so now this system let us really to have a PvP between us and not a high lvl party in a killin spree all around the newbies areas. of course is a new system so lets hope it works....
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But all the PVE vs PVP discussions/arguments in these forums are really nutty imo.
The answer seems simple enough to me. Just do what WoW did... have PVE servers, and PVP servers. walla. done. easy. People pick which one they like. end of discussion...
NOTE: I am implementing the "modus ponens de WoW" arguement here; a WoW specific implementation of modus ponens built on the concept of a free market: IF you sell lots of copies, THEN you know what you are doing. WoW has sold lots of copies, THEREFORE blizz knows what they are doing. How many copies have you sold?
The only issue I have with the system that NIk described is that people who play as monsters earn "Monster Points" (for lack of an official term) which can be cashed in to buy beneficial upgrades for their "real" characters. These benefits can be used in regular PvE from my understanding, which in essence forces people who don't want to PvP to engage in PvP to get those buffs to use in PvE.
Forcing people to participate in that part of the game will not make it a successfull system. A successfull system draws people in to it without a condition such as if you don't engage in it you won't have access to all the upgrades that can benefit you in PvE.
Course we still have to wait and see what exactly those benefits are, but based on what we know now the above is my stance.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
As I have said, I didnt like it at all, it totally kills the immersion of the game (and a Tolkien game should be all about immersion).
I can imagine my Elf, with all the RP charge that I put on it and then I meet someone and say "hey, hey!! I will became a munster so we can fight, ok? Then you became a munster and we fight, ok? Lets see which munster is uglier?"
Thats not PvP, it kills the core of PvP objective. As someone well put, if you are afraid of ganking, PvP, etc... Then put PvE servers. Do not spoil the PvP and immersion faking the game like this. It looks like children game this thing on 'becaming a musnter so we can fight!!!', its too coward to not face the problemas of PvP like this. It seens like Turbine dont know (or want) to face the BIGGER problem on a MMORPG which is the balancing of the game (PvE and PvP), avoiding real PvP, and making this 'munster' thing. What is Tolkien now? "Dr. Jekyl and Mister Hyde"?
It doesnt make sense to have PvP then, its simple a duel thing which you take Dr. Jekyl potion and became Mr. Hyde. good for kids, bad for Tolkien and immersion and complexity.
I can see PvErs supporting this, but I dont see real PvPers which like the immersion and the purpose of the battle enjoying this.
It's like watching a chick flick if you don't have a girlfriend and hate chick flicks. Or like watching a Steven Seigal movie when you can't stand him.
There's no point in it. Go play something that will suit your style instead of trying to force other people to live with what YOU want and they don't.
Well, I will have to see how the monster play works out. May be fun ...different anyway. Since there is no playable race of orcs......like others have said, pvp really doesnt fit. If for some reason they did introduce playable orcs in an expansion or what have you...then yes ...maybe introduce pvp in certain zones on pvp only servers.
Of course any time you mention pvp on the boards....some lore junky/rp junky has an aneurysm. There is actually a lot of good ideas that are brought up other than pvp....only to watch some guy try to squash it before his precious idea of what the game should be is ruined. Its almost sickening. Thats why I dont hold out to much hope for this game. I see people sucking the life and fun out of it before it even starts.
I miss DAoC
The point is very clear - Tolkien states that evil races are the minons of Sauron (or an evil lord) and thus have "no intelligence". Now we could discuss the term "intelligence" because they would apply to the user but I would rather leave that out and concerntrate on the main aspect of the game - PvE.
As I stated above i think this monster play could add some spice to the game - if it is done correctly. I guess we will have to see and wait till release to really judge it.
I disagree with you. It is a good system that will prevent the fighting in the community on which class is best and which class needs balancing. We also know how the story ends and how each battle turns out by reading the books. It would be against Tolkien lore to have Orcs and what not sacking villages and winning battles that never even occured during the timeline.
PvP out right ruins a game, because people end up name calling and smack talking and it turns into a competition to max out your character. There are plenty of games out there to where you can do that. This game is centered around providing a LOTR experience, so that you can immerse yourself in the world...not pwn the Hobbit or Orc.
Depending on how they implement the storyline into the context of the game. This could be very boring, or not follow the storyline. One of those two is what i'm most worried about. Although with enough innovation, it may just be what every Tolkien fan always dreamed.
Another question is, what do they do, after the story has been told? What is the end-game going to be like... Will they make up their own tales? Or just make you endlessly search for better gear and more money?
I disagree with you. It is a good system that will prevent the fighting in the community on which class is best and which class needs balancing. We also know how the story ends and how each battle turns out by reading the books. It would be against Tolkien lore to have Orcs and what not sacking villages and winning battles that never even occured during the timeline.
PvP out right ruins a game, because people end up name calling and smack talking and it turns into a competition to max out your character. There are plenty of games out there to where you can do that. This game is centered around providing a LOTR experience, so that you can immerse yourself in the world...not pwn the Hobbit or Orc.
Depending on how they implement the storyline into the context of the game. This could be very boring, or not follow the storyline. One of those two is what i'm most worried about. Although with enough innovation, it may just be what every Tolkien fan always dreamed.
Another question is, what do they do, after the story has been told? What is the end-game going to be like... Will they make up their own tales? Or just make you endlessly search for better gear and more money?
Last time it was discussed Turbine had some room to create ancillary content that would be looked over by the Tolkien powers that be. This does not mean that they could vastly change existing lore, however. It does give them the flexibility should they progress the story to the point the ring is destroyed to have content after that.
Keep this [b]very[/b] big point in mind: Advancing the story to the point the ring is destroyed will most probably take 6-7 real years or longer.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
About using "Monster Points" for buying better gear. They have made it so very clear what they are tyring to do without a direct quote. There will be 5 ways to advance yourself at "End Game" if you want to raid. great. never see pvp in you life. if you want to craft. great...do it.
All avenue of end game will have access to gear with similar stats.
So if you pvp and enjoy it, you can use that to buy some great gear for your normal character, and if you'd rather use it to buy access to a higher level monster, then so be it.
I've been reading about 25,000 posts a month and everything the Devs have said (including the now missing public discussion of beta forum) They have some great plans, and love the game. If you want to be part of the dicussion that the devs actually read, come on over and let them know how you feel.
btw, don't tell me you're in beta...I don't want to know.
You obviously have no clue what you are talking about. Monster PvP is not you turning into a monster. It is you spawning as a monster in a designated area, where no one will know if you are a monster or a NPC. You just get to control the monsters that normally are NPC's.
For example: There is a Spider lair in a particular area and many players go there on quests and what not. You could go be a spider for a little while and fight against other players and they wouldn't realize that you are in fact a real person and not a NPC.
Do you have no idea how MMO's work? The story is never really told. The Ring will NEVER reach the fires of Mount Doom. By it's very nature, this game is going to be a static game.
Thus, the game will never end because the story will never end. That's the way things work in MMO's. Please quit asking that question.
Heh, this is the first time I've disagreed with you on something. On something like this I would never say never. Remember "PvP is not a feature"? I would say 6-7 years down the road, once all the book related expansions are done, Turbine may take the game to a time shortly after the ring is destroyed and the lands start to rebuild/recover from the war. All done in the interest to provide new content.
I say this not able to remember a dev quote on the officals that said the game would be static in time always. The thing is, the amount of years that have to pass to get to this point, I don't see those people asking the question you indicate having the attention span to stick around that long. I mean, the game isn't even out and their already talking about what they are going to do 6+ years from now???
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
I thought I was pretty clear in expressing my concerns. My fault. If the benefits bought from MP points enhance PvE and MP is the only way to get said benefits, the PvE preferred players will have to engage in MP to get those benefits for use in PvE. Let's not be naive here. Everyone wants to be good at what they do and if those benefits take you to that "next gear", then PvE preferred players are going to want them, with the only way of getting them being MP.
All that said, I refer back to the last sentence in the paragraph of mine that was quoted.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
rofl Yet another reason to expect about as much out of this game as DDO delivered.
Do the money grubbers really think we are that attached to movie titles? I loved Matrix, I haven't even considered playing "Matrix Online". I loved this movie even more, not a chance I will play it.
Over 1 Billion served.
/sarcasm
How many burgers have you sold! Your burgers may taste good but they suck because you did not sell over one billion of em!
/end sarcasm
Sure Blizzard knows what they are doing, making money, not making a GREAT MMORPG.
--When you resubscribe to SWG, an 18 yearold Stripper finds Jesus, gives up stripping, and moves with a rolex reverend to Hawaii.
--In MMORPG's l007 is the opiate of the masses.
--The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence!
--CCP could cut off an Eve player's fun bits, and that player would say that it was good CCP did that.
How about you PvP fanboys realize, that its PERFECTLY ACCEPTABLE for a game to exist and be non PvP. Go play something else, the entire MMO industry does not have to cater to your every whim with each game.
I thought I was pretty clear in expressing my concerns. My fault. If the benefits bought from MP points enhance PvE and MP is the only way to get said benefits, the PvE preferred players will have to engage in MP to get those benefits for use in PvE. Let's not be naive here. Everyone wants to be good at what they do and if those benefits take you to that "next gear", then PvE preferred players are going to want them, with the only way of getting them being MP.
All that said, I refer back to the last sentence in the paragraph of mine that was quoted.
I don't think you understand what is going on here. All you get from Monster PvP is a special buff and such. The LOTRO community is different from what you are used to. People aren't going to want to be maxed out just for the sake of being maxed out. There are a lot more RP oriented folks that are going to play and that care more about looking different and playing their roles. As long as you can complete the content in the gear you have, there is no reason other than greed to compete with the Jones'es.