Originally posted by nthnaoun Originally posted by Khalathwyr Originally posted by nthnaoun Originally posted by Khalathwyr The only issue I have with the system that NIk described is that people who play as monsters earn "Monster Points" (for lack of an official term) which can be cashed in to buy beneficial upgrades for their "real" characters. These benefits can be used in regular PvE from my understanding, which in essence forces people who don't want to PvP to engage in PvP to get those buffs to use in PvE. Forcing people to participate in that part of the game will not make it a successfull system. A successfull system draws people in to it without a condition such as if you don't engage in it you won't have access to all the upgrades that can benefit you in PvE. Course we still have to wait and see what exactly those benefits are, but based on what we know now the above is my stance.
Why would you be forced to do Monster PvP? There is no reason to be competitive with abilities if you are not PvPing.
I thought I was pretty clear in expressing my concerns. My fault. If the benefits bought from MP points enhance PvE and MP is the only way to get said benefits, the PvE preferred players will have to engage in MP to get those benefits for use in PvE. Let's not be naive here. Everyone wants to be good at what they do and if those benefits take you to that "next gear", then PvE preferred players are going to want them, with the only way of getting them being MP.
All that said, I refer back to the last sentence in the paragraph of mine that was quoted.
I don't think you understand what is going on here. All you get from Monster PvP is a special buff and such. The LOTRO community is different from what you are used to. People aren't going to want to be maxed out just for the sake of being maxed out. There are a lot more RP oriented folks that are going to play and that care more about looking different and playing their roles. As long as you can complete the content in the gear you have, there is no reason other than greed to compete with the Jones'es.
You have an idealistic view of things, I'll give you that. As for understanding, believe me, I understand better than you can imagine . I've been a part of the LOTRO community for about as long as Turbine has had forums up and I spent a brief time involved when Sierra was creating MEO. I think what you are not understanding is that many people don't want to have MP as the only means to get these special buffs.
Sure, I can see where you'd hope for that, but the cold reality is there aren't many people who will "gimp" themselves or that will not make use of something that is potentially beneficial to them. I mean, and take no personal offense as I'm using this only as an example, but if you told me you'd take a +2 sword over a +5 sword of Orc slaying, I'd call you a liar. And let's not argue the magical qualities I just outlined. Those where just easy to use for the purposes of my illustration.
Bottom line is you can take a look at every game out there and sample the players and in every one of them the majority of folks always take weapons/gear/buffs that benefit them the most in whatever their interest is. THe realistic view is that this game will be the same. That's not to say it won't be a great game, by any means. No one knows what exactly will be the benefits for MP other than "buffs", a term used loosely, that can be used in PvE. If comparable buffs that don't stack with MP buffs can't be earned outside of MP, then PvErs that would like those benefits will have have to PvP in MP. I don't want to have to PvP to get buffs to make me better at MP. That is my stance. Now, when Turbine reveals more about the MP systems, what buffs are granted, and hopefully that comparable/non-stackable buffs can be earned elsewhere (from raiding or questing, for example), then I know I and others won't have anything against the MP system.
In honesty, the MP system should only grant benefits/options for MP, in my opinion.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
it's pretty obvious some of the people posting here need to go over and read the FAQ's at the official site. You know who you are, no need to name names. It's going top be a good game at the minimum, maybe even great one. I have never been a big Turbine fan, never even subbed to or bought a Turbine game, but I think they have their stuff together here.
This monster play to me looks as if it will be like playing non persistant toon liek almost a FPS but with MMORPG style combat for a while with the added bonus you get some kind of points to spend on some kind of reward for either your monster play or main toon. I'd kill for a beta key to this one.
Originally posted by KillerJimmy rofl Yet another reason to expect about as much out of this game as DDO delivered. Do the money grubbers really think we are that attached to movie titles? I loved Matrix, I haven't even considered playing "Matrix Online". I loved this movie even more, not a chance I will play it.
Luckily this game has nothing to do with a movie title.
Originally posted by Khalathwyr You have an idealistic view of things, I'll give you that. As for understanding, believe me, I understand better than you can imagine . I've been a part of the LOTRO community for about as long as Turbine has had forums up and I spent a brief time involved when Sierra was creating MEO. I think what you are not understanding is that many people don't want to have MP as the only means to get these special buffs. For arguments sake, can you prove that many people do not want to MP in this game and have a problem with MP being the only way to gain the abilities? Because I read the forums and stuff too and I have yet to see the negativity that you are presenting us with. I have heard of some PvP fans not liking it, because they want a more hardcore system, but I have never heard a PvE or RP fan complain about this system. In this case, I don't believe you and I would need proof that there is a substantial amount of players that do not want MP. Sure, I can see where you'd hope for that, but the cold reality is there aren't many people who will "gimp" themselves or that will not make use of something that is potentially beneficial to them. I mean, and take no personal offense as I'm using this only as an example, but if you told me you'd take a +2 sword over a +5 sword of Orc slaying, I'd call you a liar. And let's not argue the magical qualities I just outlined. Those where just easy to use for the purposes of my illustration. I've played over 11+ MMORPG's. Most of them have players that like to min/max themselves. One thing that each of those games had in common was PvP. Because I am against min/max a toon just for competition, I have asked many players and have argued with many of them about why the min/max their characters, instead of playing them the way they want. The only response I have ever gotten was related to PvP. They didn't want to gimp themselves for PvP. They expected that group leaders would only invite those that are maxed out. Again, in most games I have played, this has been true and hardcore PvP leaders would discriminate against such practices. However, PvEers I have played with and have known for the past 4 yrs of online game playing have not cared all that much about maxing their characters out. They mainly chose the gear that looked the best on their character in their opinions and that was most easily gotten. They weren't in any competition with anyone and they also were never gimp in PvE. That's where I got my opinion on this and this is why I think that if a player doesn't want to MP, they won't and will probably care less if the MPers get buffs from it. Because no matter what, it is not hard to beat NPC's in a PvE game and you do not need to be maxed out. About the question on whether or not I would take the lower magical sword over the higher one, my answer would be, "I would," if I didn't like the alternative of getting the higher magical item. Again, I know plenty of people, even in WoW that did not Raid or PvP for better gear, because they didn't want to Raid or PvP. Speaking of Raiding, there has been a greater outcry on the LOTRO boards about having raiding in this game. Most don't want anything to do with raiding and especially do not want raids to drop gear that only raiders can get. Bottom line is you can take a look at every game out there and sample the players and in every one of them the majority of folks always take weapons/gear/buffs that benefit them the most in whatever their interest is. THe realistic view is that this game will be the same. That's not to say it won't be a great game, by any means. No one knows what exactly will be the benefits for MP other than "buffs", a term used loosely, that can be used in PvE. If comparable buffs that don't stack with MP buffs can't be earned outside of MP, then PvErs that would like those benefits will have have to PvP in MP. I don't want to have to PvP to get buffs to make me better at MP. That is my stance. Now, when Turbine reveals more about the MP systems, what buffs are granted, and hopefully that comparable/non-stackable buffs can be earned elsewhere (from raiding or questing, for example), then I know I and others won't have anything against the MP system. In most games with PvP, this is true, but games with only PvE, people gear up with whatever they get from doing whatever it is they want. I'm not saying there won't be people like you say, but my money is laying on the fact that being maxed out in this game is not going to matter and also that the community is made up of a different breed of gamers than you are used to. In honesty, the MP system should only grant benefits/options for MP, in my opinion. We are still in Beta. Things can change and will change. They might make this so to accomodate those that feel as you do.
Luckily this game has nothing to do with a movie title.
Right. It has to do with a set of books that were made into a movie and [the game] would never have been released without the movie making the books mainstream. Now that we've cleared that up.
I think the biggest thing that this game has going for it are the people. If the community is heavily RP (as some here have said they are) the game will be a ton of fun for years to come. Look at the shell of a game SWG was, I still had the most fun of any MMORPG in that game because of what the people who played made it. All you need is a half decent sandbox where you can build your sand castle and meet/make your friends.
Originally posted by nthnaoun Originally posted by Khalathwyr You have an idealistic view of things, I'll give you that. As for understanding, believe me, I understand better than you can imagine . I've been a part of the LOTRO community for about as long as Turbine has had forums up and I spent a brief time involved when Sierra was creating MEO. I think what you are not understanding is that many people don't want to have MP as the only means to get these special buffs. For arguments sake, can you prove that many people do not want to MP in this game and have a problem with MP being the only way to gain the abilities? Because I read the forums and stuff too and I have yet to see the negativity that you are presenting us with. I have heard of some PvP fans not liking it, because they want a more hardcore system, but I have never heard a PvE or RP fan complain about this system. In this case, I don't believe you and I would need proof that there is a substantial amount of players that do not want MP. Quite true. I post on those forums and I'm one of those vehemently fighting the inception of PvP. But even I don't mind MP. The only people complaining about it are the hardcore PvP'rs.
Sure, I can see where you'd hope for that, but the cold reality is there aren't many people who will "gimp" themselves or that will not make use of something that is potentially beneficial to them. I mean, and take no personal offense as I'm using this only as an example, but if you told me you'd take a +2 sword over a +5 sword of Orc slaying, I'd call you a liar. And let's not argue the magical qualities I just outlined. Those where just easy to use for the purposes of my illustration. I've played over 11+ MMORPG's. Most of them have players that like to min/max themselves. One thing that each of those games had in common was PvP. Because I am against min/max a toon just for competition, I have asked many players and have argued with many of them about why the min/max their characters, instead of playing them the way they want. The only response I have ever gotten was related to PvP. They didn't want to gimp themselves for PvP. They expected that group leaders would only invite those that are maxed out. Again, in most games I have played, this has been true and hardcore PvP leaders would discriminate against such practices. However, PvEers I have played with and have known for the past 4 yrs of online game playing have not cared all that much about maxing their characters out. They mainly chose the gear that looked the best on their character in their opinions and that was most easily gotten. They weren't in any competition with anyone and they also were never gimp in PvE. That's where I got my opinion on this and this is why I think that if a player doesn't want to MP, they won't and will probably care less if the MPers get buffs from it. Because no matter what, it is not hard to beat NPC's in a PvE game and you do not need to be maxed out. About the question on whether or not I would take the lower magical sword over the higher one, my answer would be, "I would," if I didn't like the alternative of getting the higher magical item. Again, I know plenty of people, even in WoW that did not Raid or PvP for better gear, because they didn't want to Raid or PvP. Speaking of Raiding, there has been a greater outcry on the LOTRO boards about having raiding in this game. Most don't want anything to do with raiding and especially do not want raids to drop gear that only raiders can get.Well said. I completely agree. Bottom line is you can take a look at every game out there and sample the players and in every one of them the majority of folks always take weapons/gear/buffs that benefit them the most in whatever their interest is. THe realistic view is that this game will be the same. That's not to say it won't be a great game, by any means. No one knows what exactly will be the benefits for MP other than "buffs", a term used loosely, that can be used in PvE. If comparable buffs that don't stack with MP buffs can't be earned outside of MP, then PvErs that would like those benefits will have have to PvP in MP. I don't want to have to PvP to get buffs to make me better at MP. That is my stance. Now, when Turbine reveals more about the MP systems, what buffs are granted, and hopefully that comparable/non-stackable buffs can be earned elsewhere (from raiding or questing, for example), then I know I and others won't have anything against the MP system. In most games with PvP, this is true, but games with only PvE, people gear up with whatever they get from doing whatever it is they want. I'm not saying there won't be people like you say, but my money is laying on the fact that being maxed out in this game is not going to matter and also that the community is made up of a different breed of gamers than you are used to. I'd have to say this is true as well. It's not about the max gear. To the original poster of this, I think that it's YOU that cares. Again, I post on the forums every day and few people are complaining like you are.
In honesty, the MP system should only grant benefits/options for MP, in my opinion. We are still in Beta. Things can change and will change. They might make this so to accomodate those that feel as you do.
They might change, yes. But, it would seem they are using such things as an incentive to try to get people to play.
If you read the boards people were complaining about gaining nothing for MP. This seems to be there answer for it.
If I had my way, they'd remove any form of PvP whatsoever. This is not a competition. I wish some people would understand that.
The problem with pvp games isnt that there is a lack of them its that the pvp has no meaning. The only way pvp has any meaning is from full looting. I dont mean just open pvp either, I mean when guilds declare war on other guilds they can loot each other. Anyone not in a war guild could not even be attacked so as not to ruin a pve'rs game expierence.
Originally posted by Beldwyn Luckily this game has nothing to do with a movie title.
Right. It has to do with a set of books that were made into a movie and [the game] would never have been released without the movie making the books mainstream. Now that we've cleared that up.
I think the biggest thing that this game has going for it are the people. If the community is heavily RP (as some here have said they are) the game will be a ton of fun for years to come. Look at the shell of a game SWG was, I still had the most fun of any MMORPG in that game because of what the people who played made it. All you need is a half decent sandbox where you can build your sand castle and meet/make your friends.
I disagree, LOTR has been the strongest fantasy story for 50 years, the most read book in the world except the Bible Ive heard say. To make a MMO of it seems pretty natural to me, the fact that they started developing the game before the movies came also makes me belive this more.
Originally posted by havocthefirs The problem with pvp games isnt that there is a lack of them its that the pvp has no meaning. The only way pvp has any meaning is from full looting. I dont mean just open pvp either, I mean when guilds declare war on other guilds they can loot each other. Anyone not in a war guild could not even be attacked so as not to ruin a pve'rs game expierence.
No, the problem is not the "no meaning". The problem is the people that participate. The ganking, the corpse camping, the theft, the leetspeakers that like to brag themselves up. The problem is the behavior that it initiates. Yes, some people are well behaved. The problem is that they are a minority of PvP'rs.
The problem has nothing at all to do with whether the PvP has meaning or not. Did you honestly think the reason I loath PvP is because it has no meaning? Come on now, think a little.
Originally posted by Pietoro Originally posted by airhead pve .... YAWN... it's unbelievably boring imo; i'm amazed people can play non pvp games anymore.
You must live in a constant state of amazement, everytime you see someone play a genre of game you personally don't like. It must be a strange feeling for you. How could anyone have different taste they yours, it must mean they are inferior/incapable of understanding what's good.... right?
How about you PvP fanboys realize, that its PERFECTLY ACCEPTABLE for a game to exist and be non PvP. Go play something else, the entire MMO industry does not have to cater to your every whim with each game.
LOL... such raking venom. More salve please! Sounds to me like you would make a great pvp player; too bad you stay within your anti-competitive click-and-grind viewpoint.
But no matter... all this hoopla and I even got quoted twice, and STILL... no reply to my POINT: - Just do what WoW did... create PVP servers (make them free-for-all for that matter... many would love it, including me).... AND.... create PVE servers. Everybody is happy, sales increase, maybe Turbine stays in business. No arguements needed...
But as it is, LOTR will flop, and Turbine will go bankrupt. AC2 was a PR nightmare. DDO was insane (trying to charge 15/mo for LESS funcitonality than GW?), and next will be LOTR... 3 strikes and you are out.
Originally posted by nthnaoun Originally posted by Khalathwyr You have an idealistic view of things, I'll give you that. As for understanding, believe me, I understand better than you can imagine . I've been a part of the LOTRO community for about as long as Turbine has had forums up and I spent a brief time involved when Sierra was creating MEO. I think what you are not understanding is that many people don't want to have MP as the only means to get these special buffs. For arguments sake, can you prove that many people do not want to MP in this game and have a problem with MP being the only way to gain the abilities? Because I read the forums and stuff too and I have yet to see the negativity that you are presenting us with. I have heard of some PvP fans not liking it, because they want a more hardcore system, but I have never heard a PvE or RP fan complain about this system. In this case, I don't believe you and I would need proof that there is a substantial amount of players that do not want MP. Yes, I can. Here. This link should take you to the official forums and directly to a quote by Mithril_Miser, aka Nik Davidson. Even he, the Lead Game Designer for LOTRO, acknowledges the concern of "many people" about the types of buffs earned. Even he can't guarantee MP "buffs" won't have a feel such that they are "required" for PvE. Please give special note to the last paragraph. If you aren't registered on the official forums I would highly recommend it. Sure, I can see where you'd hope for that, but the cold reality is there aren't many people who will "gimp" themselves or that will not make use of something that is potentially beneficial to them. I mean, and take no personal offense as I'm using this only as an example, but if you told me you'd take a +2 sword over a +5 sword of Orc slaying, I'd call you a liar. And let's not argue the magical qualities I just outlined. Those where just easy to use for the purposes of my illustration. I've played over 11+ MMORPG's. Most of them have players that like to min/max themselves. One thing that each of those games had in common was PvP. Because I am against min/max a toon just for competition, I have asked many players and have argued with many of them about why the min/max their characters, instead of playing them the way they want. The only response I have ever gotten was related to PvP. They didn't want to gimp themselves for PvP. They expected that group leaders would only invite those that are maxed out. Again, in most games I have played, this has been true and hardcore PvP leaders would discriminate against such practices. However, PvEers I have played with and have known for the past 4 yrs of online game playing have not cared all that much about maxing their characters out. They mainly chose the gear that looked the best on their character in their opinions and that was most easily gotten. They weren't in any competition with anyone and they also were never gimp in PvE. That's where I got my opinion on this and this is why I think that if a player doesn't want to MP, they won't and will probably care less if the MPers get buffs from it. Because no matter what, it is not hard to beat NPC's in a PvE game and you do not need to be maxed out. About the question on whether or not I would take the lower magical sword over the higher one, my answer would be, "I would," if I didn't like the alternative of getting the higher magical item. Again, I know plenty of people, even in WoW that did not Raid or PvP for better gear, because they didn't want to Raid or PvP. Speaking of Raiding, there has been a greater outcry on the LOTRO boards about having raiding in this game. Most don't want anything to do with raiding and especially do not want raids to drop gear that only raiders can get. There really isn't a point to debate this particular issue. You've had your experiences, I've had mine and I have seen countless arguments and debates by PvErs on which items are "optimal" (for the record I hate that word in the context of MMOs) for PvE play. Heck, message boards for most games have thread after thread about which items are the "best". Sure, PvPrs want the best items too, I'm not saying they don't. But in every game I've played since launch week of Ultima Online there have been plenty of PvE discussion on which items are the best. Bottom line is you can take a look at every game out there and sample the players and in every one of them the majority of folks always take weapons/gear/buffs that benefit them the most in whatever their interest is. THe realistic view is that this game will be the same. That's not to say it won't be a great game, by any means. No one knows what exactly will be the benefits for MP other than "buffs", a term used loosely, that can be used in PvE. If comparable buffs that don't stack with MP buffs can't be earned outside of MP, then PvErs that would like those benefits will have have to PvP in MP. I don't want to have to PvP to get buffs to make me better at MP. That is my stance. Now, when Turbine reveals more about the MP systems, what buffs are granted, and hopefully that comparable/non-stackable buffs can be earned elsewhere (from raiding or questing, for example), then I know I and others won't have anything against the MP system. In most games with PvP, this is true, but games with only PvE, people gear up with whatever they get from doing whatever it is they want. I'm not saying there won't be people like you say, but my money is laying on the fact that being maxed out in this game is not going to matter and also that the community is made up of a different breed of gamers than you are used to. If this were true, then there would be no need for player crafting, heck, there wouldn't even be a need for magical items at all. I mean, what would it matter? People don't want better items, right? About this "different breed" of gamers, as I've stated before, it's a very idealistic thought. Just know that yes, there will be some folks of the ilk you mention, yet, there are going to be many, many, many more people who see this as just the next MMOG to play and will only be concerned with advancing their character. There have been plenty of folks who have stated the same point as you about the "calibre" of player for DDO. "Only real roleplayers will come here" they said. I know, because I was one of them. I still play pencil and paper DnD to this day. If you have not already, go take a look at that game. While I met many, many good people there, they weren't concerned with RP all that much. They wanted the next quest, the next best item. This, in a computer game that was based on the penultimate RP table-top game. In honesty, the MP system should only grant benefits/options for MP, in my opinion. We are still in Beta. Things can change and will change. They might make this so to accomodate those that feel as you do. Yep, and I hope so. I'm not one that doesn't want those in MP to not get any rewards, as I've stated many times. I just don't want those rewards to put me in a position to where I have to consider engaging in it to achieve a reward that is desirable in PvE play.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Originally posted by airhead Originally posted by Pietoro Originally posted by airhead pve .... YAWN... it's unbelievably boring imo; i'm amazed people can play non pvp games anymore.
You must live in a constant state of amazement, everytime you see someone play a genre of game you personally don't like. It must be a strange feeling for you. How could anyone have different taste they yours, it must mean they are inferior/incapable of understanding what's good.... right?
How about you PvP fanboys realize, that its PERFECTLY ACCEPTABLE for a game to exist and be non PvP. Go play something else, the entire MMO industry does not have to cater to your every whim with each game.
LOL... such raking venom. More salve please! Sounds to me like you would make a great pvp player; too bad you stay within your anti-competitive click-and-grind viewpoint.
But no matter... all this hoopla and I even got quoted twice, and STILL... no reply to my POINT: - Just do what WoW did... create PVP servers (make them free-for-all for that matter... many would love it, including me).... AND.... create PVE servers. Everybody is happy, sales increase, maybe Turbine stays in business. No arguements needed...
But as it is, LOTR will flop, and Turbine will go bankrupt. AC2 was a PR nightmare. DDO was insane (trying to charge 15/mo for LESS funcitonality than GW?), and next will be LOTR... 3 strikes and you are out.
Sounds stupid to me, if LotRO was just a wow clone it would draw no sales what so ever, why? Because WoW exist, nobody want a new wow when there is 6 million people on the old one. To make a game like Turbine is doing is to fill a spot on the market, a game for all those who didnt like WOW, and there are a lot more of those than there are of those who are playing WoW that want to change to LOTRO. Here is the perfect game for those who dont like all the negative sides of a raid centric, faction based PvP game. Its a good way to make money, specially if they truely succede, because then they will loyal Tolkien fans, and movie fans and some general PvE fans as subscribers for years to come, instead of a some players that leave after 6 months to get the next big game at the market.
Originally posted by havocthefirs The problem with pvp games isnt that there is a lack of them its that the pvp has no meaning. The only way pvp has any meaning is from full looting. I dont mean just open pvp either, I mean when guilds declare war on other guilds they can loot each other. Anyone not in a war guild could not even be attacked so as not to ruin a pve'rs game expierence.
Why does full looting equal meaningful PvP? I played meaningful PvP games like DAoC and there wasn't any looting. We found meaning behind defending our realm. You had Castles to defend and take, that can actually be razed. Controlling these actually has an impact on the PvE part of the game. It also controls who has access to Darkness Falls, a PvP dungeon.
Full loot is just a money sink and a well designed MMO that implements a good economy system does not need a money sink. Besides, if you've played UO and other full loot games, no one runs around with special gear on. They just run around in crafted gear that are a dime a dozen.
LOL... such raking venom. More salve please! Sounds to me like you would make a great pvp player; too bad you stay within your anti-competitive click-and-grind viewpoint.
But no matter... all this hoopla and I even got quoted twice, and STILL... no reply to my POINT: - Just do what WoW did... create PVP servers (make them free-for-all for that matter... many would love it, including me).... AND.... create PVE servers. Everybody is happy, sales increase, maybe Turbine stays in business. No arguements needed...
But as it is, LOTR will flop, and Turbine will go bankrupt. AC2 was a PR nightmare. DDO was insane (trying to charge 15/mo for LESS funcitonality than GW?), and next will be LOTR... 3 strikes and you are out.
What you fail to realize is that classes aren't balanced and aren't meant to be in a PvE game. If you implement PvP servers, the Devs will have to balance the classes out and will piss off all the PvE players and the PvE players are the ones who are really going to stick with this game. There are many PvP games on the way that would blow LOTRO PvP servers out of the water. Also, the forums would go from mature, well thought out posts, to immature, trash talking egotistic fools.
In short...PvP servers would do more harm than good. Every MMORPG does not need to cater to the PvPer, just like every single one doesn't have to cater to the PvEer. You need to just write this game off as a PvE MMO and move on. LOTRO will make plenty of money to stay alive from the LOTR die hards and enthusiasts.
Originally posted by nthnaoun Originally posted by Domenicus I think that Turbine has proven that they *really* dont know what a player want. Now to make PvP you need to transform yourself in a ....'monster'? Well, I am not even start to mention how short-sighted it is to call Orcs, Trolls, etc... 'monsters''' in a complex world like Tolkien's reakm. And EVERY PvPer like to play his character, to test it against others, I do not want to became a 'monster' to PvP. I want my Elf, my Dwarf, to fight on PvP...
Is there any way to get the wonderful Tolkien world out of turbine's hand?
I disagree with you. It is a good system that will prevent the fighting in the community on which class is best and which class needs balancing. We also know how the story ends and how each battle turns out by reading the books. It would be against Tolkien lore to have Orcs and what not sacking villages and winning battles that never even occured during the timeline.
PvP out right ruins a game, because people end up name calling and smack talking and it turns into a competition to max out your character. There are plenty of games out there to where you can do that. This game is centered around providing a LOTR experience, so that you can immerse yourself in the world...not pwn the Hobbit or Orc.
In any sport, smack talking is just part of it... You try to sike the other person out.
I don't think PvP ruins a game, it just makes all the carebears like yourself cry and cut their emo self.
Originally posted by Khalathwyr Originally posted by nthnaoun Originally posted by Khalathwyr You have an idealistic view of things, I'll give you that. As for understanding, believe me, I understand better than you can imagine . I've been a part of the LOTRO community for about as long as Turbine has had forums up and I spent a brief time involved when Sierra was creating MEO. I think what you are not understanding is that many people don't want to have MP as the only means to get these special buffs. For arguments sake, can you prove that many people do not want to MP in this game and have a problem with MP being the only way to gain the abilities? Because I read the forums and stuff too and I have yet to see the negativity that you are presenting us with. I have heard of some PvP fans not liking it, because they want a more hardcore system, but I have never heard a PvE or RP fan complain about this system. In this case, I don't believe you and I would need proof that there is a substantial amount of players that do not want MP. Yes, I can. Here. This link should take you to the official forums and directly to a quote by Mithril_Miser, aka Nik Davidson. Even he, the Lead Game Designer for LOTRO, acknowledges the concern of "many people" about the types of buffs earned. Even he can't guarantee MP "buffs" won't have a feel such that they are "required" for PvE. Please give special note to the last paragraph. If you aren't registered on the official forums I would highly recommend it. You should reread that paragraph. He flat out said that you can gain equal rewards by doing whatever it is you like doing. I could easily buy a good sword from a Crafter, while you gain yours from PvP. Sure, I can see where you'd hope for that, but the cold reality is there aren't many people who will "gimp" themselves or that will not make use of something that is potentially beneficial to them. I mean, and take no personal offense as I'm using this only as an example, but if you told me you'd take a +2 sword over a +5 sword of Orc slaying, I'd call you a liar. And let's not argue the magical qualities I just outlined. Those where just easy to use for the purposes of my illustration. I've played over 11+ MMORPG's. Most of them have players that like to min/max themselves. One thing that each of those games had in common was PvP. Because I am against min/max a toon just for competition, I have asked many players and have argued with many of them about why the min/max their characters, instead of playing them the way they want. The only response I have ever gotten was related to PvP. They didn't want to gimp themselves for PvP. They expected that group leaders would only invite those that are maxed out. Again, in most games I have played, this has been true and hardcore PvP leaders would discriminate against such practices. However, PvEers I have played with and have known for the past 4 yrs of online game playing have not cared all that much about maxing their characters out. They mainly chose the gear that looked the best on their character in their opinions and that was most easily gotten. They weren't in any competition with anyone and they also were never gimp in PvE. That's where I got my opinion on this and this is why I think that if a player doesn't want to MP, they won't and will probably care less if the MPers get buffs from it. Because no matter what, it is not hard to beat NPC's in a PvE game and you do not need to be maxed out. About the question on whether or not I would take the lower magical sword over the higher one, my answer would be, "I would," if I didn't like the alternative of getting the higher magical item. Again, I know plenty of people, even in WoW that did not Raid or PvP for better gear, because they didn't want to Raid or PvP. Speaking of Raiding, there has been a greater outcry on the LOTRO boards about having raiding in this game. Most don't want anything to do with raiding and especially do not want raids to drop gear that only raiders can get. There really isn't a point to debate this particular issue. You've had your experiences, I've had mine and I have seen countless arguments and debates by PvErs on which items are "optimal" (for the record I hate that word in the context of MMOs) for PvE play. Heck, message boards for most games have thread after thread about which items are the "best". Sure, PvPrs want the best items too, I'm not saying they don't. But in every game I've played since launch week of Ultima Online there have been plenty of PvE discussion on which items are the best. Bottom line is you can take a look at every game out there and sample the players and in every one of them the majority of folks always take weapons/gear/buffs that benefit them the most in whatever their interest is. THe realistic view is that this game will be the same. That's not to say it won't be a great game, by any means. No one knows what exactly will be the benefits for MP other than "buffs", a term used loosely, that can be used in PvE. If comparable buffs that don't stack with MP buffs can't be earned outside of MP, then PvErs that would like those benefits will have have to PvP in MP. I don't want to have to PvP to get buffs to make me better at MP. That is my stance. Now, when Turbine reveals more about the MP systems, what buffs are granted, and hopefully that comparable/non-stackable buffs can be earned elsewhere (from raiding or questing, for example), then I know I and others won't have anything against the MP system. In most games with PvP, this is true, but games with only PvE, people gear up with whatever they get from doing whatever it is they want. I'm not saying there won't be people like you say, but my money is laying on the fact that being maxed out in this game is not going to matter and also that the community is made up of a different breed of gamers than you are used to. If this were true, then there would be no need for player crafting, heck, there wouldn't even be a need for magical items at all. I mean, what would it matter? People don't want better items, right? About this "different breed" of gamers, as I've stated before, it's a very idealistic thought. Just know that yes, there will be some folks of the ilk you mention, yet, there are going to be many, many, many more people who see this as just the next MMOG to play and will only be concerned with advancing their character. There have been plenty of folks who have stated the same point as you about the "calibre" of player for DDO. "Only real roleplayers will come here" they said. I know, because I was one of them. I still play pencil and paper DnD to this day. If you have not already, go take a look at that game. While I met many, many good people there, they weren't concerned with RP all that much. They wanted the next quest, the next best item. This, in a computer game that was based on the penultimate RP table-top game. In honesty, the MP system should only grant benefits/options for MP, in my opinion. We are still in Beta. Things can change and will change. They might make this so to accomodate those that feel as you do. Yep, and I hope so. I'm not one that doesn't want those in MP to not get any rewards, as I've stated many times. I just don't want those rewards to put me in a position to where I have to consider engaging in it to achieve a reward that is desirable in PvE play.
Originally posted by Moirae Originally posted by havocthefirs The problem with pvp games isnt that there is a lack of them its that the pvp has no meaning. The only way pvp has any meaning is from full looting. I dont mean just open pvp either, I mean when guilds declare war on other guilds they can loot each other. Anyone not in a war guild could not even be attacked so as not to ruin a pve'rs game expierence.
No, the problem is not the "no meaning". The problem is the people that participate. The ganking, the corpse camping, the theft, the leetspeakers that like to brag themselves up. The problem is the behavior that it initiates. Yes, some people are well behaved. The problem is that they are a minority of PvP'rs.
The problem has nothing at all to do with whether the PvP has meaning or not. Did you honestly think the reason I loath PvP is because it has no meaning? Come on now, think a little.
I was'nt responding to anything you said at all I was stating my own opinion, I'm afraid whatever you wrote did'nt seem particlarly interesting enough to read, but since your ranting at my post for some reason I will reply.
If your dumb enough to get ressed and run back to your corpse that you know has already been looted you deserve to get wacked again. As far as leetspeakers as you call them (I'm afraid I dont speak leet), if a few bad words from a 12 year old gets your panties ina bunch well thats just a sign of your own insecurites.
Finally I made it perfectly clear to avoid being traumatized by the nasty pvpers just dont join a war guild and you can blissfully go your merry way.
Originally posted by havocthefirs Originally posted by Moirae Originally posted by havocthefirs The problem with pvp games isnt that there is a lack of them its that the pvp has no meaning. The only way pvp has any meaning is from full looting. I dont mean just open pvp either, I mean when guilds declare war on other guilds they can loot each other. Anyone not in a war guild could not even be attacked so as not to ruin a pve'rs game expierence.
No, the problem is not the "no meaning". The problem is the people that participate. The ganking, the corpse camping, the theft, the leetspeakers that like to brag themselves up. The problem is the behavior that it initiates. Yes, some people are well behaved. The problem is that they are a minority of PvP'rs.
The problem has nothing at all to do with whether the PvP has meaning or not. Did you honestly think the reason I loath PvP is because it has no meaning? Come on now, think a little.
I was'nt responding to anything you said at all I was stating my own opinion, I'm afraid whatever you wrote did'nt seem particlarly interesting enough to read, but since your ranting at my post for some reason I will reply.
If your dumb enough to get ressed and run back to your corpse that you know has already been looted you deserve to get wacked again. As far as leetspeakers as you call them (I'm afraid I dont speak leet), if a few bad words from a 12 year old gets your panties ina bunch well thats just a sign of your own insecurites.
Finally I made it perfectly clear to avoid being traumatized by the nasty pvpers just dont join a war guild and you can blissfully go your merry way.
And be forced to live the smack talking, constant nerfing, having the devs focus more on the never satisfied PvP crowd than to add real content to the game etc.
Originally posted by nthnaoun Originally posted by airhead LOL... such raking venom. More salve please! Sounds to me like you would make a great pvp player; too bad you stay within your anti-competitive click-and-grind viewpoint.
But no matter... all this hoopla and I even got quoted twice, and STILL... no reply to my POINT: - Just do what WoW did... create PVP servers (make them free-for-all for that matter... many would love it, including me).... AND.... create PVE servers. Everybody is happy, sales increase, maybe Turbine stays in business. No arguements needed...
But as it is, LOTR will flop, and Turbine will go bankrupt. AC2 was a PR nightmare. DDO was insane (trying to charge 15/mo for LESS funcitonality than GW?), and next will be LOTR... 3 strikes and you are out.
What you fail to realize is that classes aren't balanced and aren't meant to be in a PvE game. If you implement PvP servers, the Devs will have to balance the classes out and will piss off all the PvE players and the PvE players are the ones who are really going to stick with this game. There are many PvP games on the way that would blow LOTRO PvP servers out of the water. Also, the forums would go from mature, well thought out posts, to immature, trash talking egotistic fools.
In short...PvP servers would do more harm than good. Every MMORPG does not need to cater to the PvPer, just like every single one doesn't have to cater to the PvEer. You need to just write this game off as a PvE MMO and move on. LOTRO will make plenty of money to stay alive from the LOTR die hards and enthusiasts.
1. Class balancing. There may be a little truth in that statement. Balancing for PvE vs balancing for PvP can be slightly different. I think of eq2 for example. They really had stuck with the dps heirarchy (mage, scout, fighter, priest) so that groups had need for all... and it worked good in their pve. But when they added pvp, the game is not really balanced for it. After 6 months of pve in that game, i tried their pvp, and it was 'ok', semi-fun, but not great like wow or gw where the classes were a little more similar, everyone had a way out generally, etc.
But the other stuff you are saying... disagree.
2. Devs will not HAVE to balance classes out, aka eq2. They added pvp and now those servers are more crowded than the pve, even without the classes being that balanced. It's not great pvp, but it's not that bad either. pvp along with the 2+ xpacks has breathed a little life into the game. And it didn't piss off the PvE people at all... it's a different server. And a little balancing (which they did a little i think) did NOT piss off the pve players as you are saying.
3. If LOTRO added PVP servers, it does not mean that lotro-pvp must be better than all other pvp games on the market.
4. All PvPers are NOT "egotistical trash talking fools". I'm not, and i enjoy pvp, because it adds a level of unpredictability that can not be achieved with current AI.... no trash talking involved there. I just get a little bored with killing the same bear over and over... he spawns, he faces east for 10 seconds, he turns to the north, he walks 20 feet, etc. I enjoy having to look over my shoulder sometimes.... nothing egotistical about that.
5. I don't want to write off LOTRO as a pve-only game. I want to fuss at Turbine, and get them to add pvp. I read LOTR over 30 years ago, read it many times, enjoyed it, feel I have just as much right to enjoy the genre as the next person. And so do you. We all get to vote. We all pay taxes. We all die. AND the most frustrating point is there is nothing to "move on to".... The only part of your point I might agree on in this regard is that I'm 100% sure no one at Turbine is reading this, so any fussing done here is a complete waste of time. For that matter, I would be shocked if anyone at Turbine ever read any user forum about what their games should contain...
6. And so ... LOTRO will flop and Turbine will most likely go out of business. It's hard to argue about future predictions, but this is I see it going: The license will make a good initial surge, but once people realize this is yet another everquest, and the boredom of killing the same old bear over and over gets to them, then subs will drop. If it was backed by a company with tons of money (soe) then they could keep it going at some lower sub level. But it's backed by Turbine, who has failed miserably in their latest 2 MMO attempts. This will be strike 3... it MUST be a big hit, or they will probably go under.
1. Class balancing. There may be a little truth in that statement. Balancing for PvE vs balancing for PvP can be slightly different. I think of eq2 for example. They really had stuck with the dps heirarchy (mage, scout, fighter, priest) so that groups had need for all... and it worked good in their pve. But when they added pvp, the game is not really balanced for it. After 6 months of pve in that game, i tried their pvp, and it was 'ok', semi-fun, but not great like wow or gw where the classes were a little more similar, everyone had a way out generally, etc.
But the other stuff you are saying... disagree.
2. Devs will not HAVE to balance classes out, aka eq2. They added pvp and now those servers are more crowded than the pve, even without the classes being that balanced. It's not great pvp, but it's not that bad either. pvp along with the 2+ xpacks has breathed a little life into the game. And it didn't piss off the PvE people at all... it's a different server. And a little balancing (which they did a little i think) did NOT piss off the pve players as you are saying.
3. If LOTRO added PVP servers, it does not mean that lotro-pvp must be better than all other pvp games on the market.
4. All PvPers are NOT "egotistical trash talking fools". I'm not, and i enjoy pvp, because it adds a level of unpredictability that can not be achieved with current AI.... no trash talking involved there. I just get a little bored with killing the same bear over and over... he spawns, he faces east for 10 seconds, he turns to the north, he walks 20 feet, etc. I enjoy having to look over my shoulder sometimes.... nothing egotistical about that.
5. I don't want to write off LOTRO as a pve-only game. I want to fuss at Turbine, and get them to add pvp. I read LOTR over 30 years ago, read it many times, enjoyed it, feel I have just as much right to enjoy the genre as the next person. And so do you. We all get to vote. We all pay taxes. We all die. AND the most frustrating point is there is nothing to "move on to".... The only part of your point I might agree on in this regard is that I'm 100% sure no one at Turbine is reading this, so any fussing done here is a complete waste of time. For that matter, I would be shocked if anyone at Turbine ever read any user forum about what their games should contain...
6. And so ... LOTRO will flop and Turbine will most likely go out of business. It's hard to argue about future predictions, but this is I see it going: The license will make a good initial surge, but once people realize this is yet another everquest, and the boredom of killing the same old bear over and over gets to them, then subs will drop. If it was backed by a company with tons of money (soe) then they could keep it going at some lower sub level. But it's backed by Turbine, who has failed miserably in their latest 2 MMO attempts. This will be strike 3... it MUST be a big hit, or they will probably go under.
Like you said, it's your opinion. I don't agree with it and there's no reason to argue with you over it further. We will just have to wait and see.
seems to me that there are two distinct groups of people complaining about the MPvP.
The ones who do not think that playing a a non persistent character in the MPvP will give them whatever challenge they are looking for. It's kind of funny how they determined that this will not give them that challenge since they have not even played the game yet isn't it? I cannot predict how challenging it will be but I can for darn sure tell that it will insulate me from trash talking power leveling kiddies whose big thrill comes from attacking characters a dozen levels lower and then spamming obscene emotes and colorful phrases such as I pwned joo noob bitch.
The other group are the players that are scared crap less that someone might lvl faster or get some bennie from the MPvP that they cannot get from sitting around the Prancing Pony and quaffing virtual ales and telling tales of their brave deeds.
<looks in pocket for symapthy>...... so sorry seems as if I am all out there is none to be found
look for me ingame, I will be that orc that just smashed your punkin head with the big club
Originally posted by nthnaoun Originally posted by Khalathwyr Originally posted by nthnaoun Originally posted by Khalathwyr You have an idealistic view of things, I'll give you that. As for understanding, believe me, I understand better than you can imagine . I've been a part of the LOTRO community for about as long as Turbine has had forums up and I spent a brief time involved when Sierra was creating MEO. I think what you are not understanding is that many people don't want to have MP as the only means to get these special buffs. For arguments sake, can you prove that many people do not want to MP in this game and have a problem with MP being the only way to gain the abilities? Because I read the forums and stuff too and I have yet to see the negativity that you are presenting us with. I have heard of some PvP fans not liking it, because they want a more hardcore system, but I have never heard a PvE or RP fan complain about this system. In this case, I don't believe you and I would need proof that there is a substantial amount of players that do not want MP. Yes, I can. Here. This link should take you to the official forums and directly to a quote by Mithril_Miser, aka Nik Davidson. Even he, the Lead Game Designer for LOTRO, acknowledges the concern of "many people" about the types of buffs earned. Even he can't guarantee MP "buffs" won't have a feel such that they are "required" for PvE. Please give special note to the last paragraph. If you aren't registered on the official forums I would highly recommend it. You should reread that paragraph. He flat out said that you can gain equal rewards by doing whatever it is you like doing. I could easily buy a good sword from a Crafter, while you gain yours from PvP. If MP allows you access to a buff that grants +5 to orc slaying and by doing a quest you can achieve a +5 buff to orc slaying that does not stack with the buff from MP, then no harm no foul. The system is good. Now, through questing, if you can only achieve a +4 non-stackable buff, then this is where I have issue. This example demonstrates an attempt to funnel players to MP because the only way to get the +5 is via MP. It is if (and we should all be able to agree that everything is in "ifs" right now) one of the 5 types of play Nik listed grants a buff better than what can be achieved than the other 4 methods OR if said buffs are stackable that is the concern. If a MP player gets a +5 orc slaying buff from MP and a +5 Axe of Orc slaying from questing (for a total bonus of +10) whereas a PvE preferred player has only access (due to playstyle) to the +5 Axe from questing and no other option as MP and questing are the only ways to get the +5 Orc slaying bonus, then it is a bad system in my opinion. Now, if the total max orc slaying bonus a player can have is +10 and you can get the +5 bonus via all 5 play types (but are capped at +10 bonus so only effectively being able to use 2 of the 5 bonuses at a given time), then kudos, it's a good system. The stackability of the character buffs with and without potential weapon buffs for me and others is an area where we can see the system being less than desirable. Additionally, Nik never mentions the word "equal" in that post. If he did and stated that like bonuses (i.e., a bonus of +5 orc slaying) from two of the 5 play types are not stackable, then I know alot of us could breathe a collective sigh of relief. Sure, I can see where you'd hope for that, but the cold reality is there aren't many people who will "gimp" themselves or that will not make use of something that is potentially beneficial to them. I mean, and take no personal offense as I'm using this only as an example, but if you told me you'd take a +2 sword over a +5 sword of Orc slaying, I'd call you a liar. And let's not argue the magical qualities I just outlined. Those where just easy to use for the purposes of my illustration. I've played over 11+ MMORPG's. Most of them have players that like to min/max themselves. One thing that each of those games had in common was PvP. Because I am against min/max a toon just for competition, I have asked many players and have argued with many of them about why the min/max their characters, instead of playing them the way they want. The only response I have ever gotten was related to PvP. They didn't want to gimp themselves for PvP. They expected that group leaders would only invite those that are maxed out. Again, in most games I have played, this has been true and hardcore PvP leaders would discriminate against such practices. However, PvEers I have played with and have known for the past 4 yrs of online game playing have not cared all that much about maxing their characters out. They mainly chose the gear that looked the best on their character in their opinions and that was most easily gotten. They weren't in any competition with anyone and they also were never gimp in PvE. That's where I got my opinion on this and this is why I think that if a player doesn't want to MP, they won't and will probably care less if the MPers get buffs from it. Because no matter what, it is not hard to beat NPC's in a PvE game and you do not need to be maxed out. About the question on whether or not I would take the lower magical sword over the higher one, my answer would be, "I would," if I didn't like the alternative of getting the higher magical item. Again, I know plenty of people, even in WoW that did not Raid or PvP for better gear, because they didn't want to Raid or PvP. Speaking of Raiding, there has been a greater outcry on the LOTRO boards about having raiding in this game. Most don't want anything to do with raiding and especially do not want raids to drop gear that only raiders can get. There really isn't a point to debate this particular issue. You've had your experiences, I've had mine and I have seen countless arguments and debates by PvErs on which items are "optimal" (for the record I hate that word in the context of MMOs) for PvE play. Heck, message boards for most games have thread after thread about which items are the "best". Sure, PvPrs want the best items too, I'm not saying they don't. But in every game I've played since launch week of Ultima Online there have been plenty of PvE discussion on which items are the best. Bottom line is you can take a look at every game out there and sample the players and in every one of them the majority of folks always take weapons/gear/buffs that benefit them the most in whatever their interest is. THe realistic view is that this game will be the same. That's not to say it won't be a great game, by any means. No one knows what exactly will be the benefits for MP other than "buffs", a term used loosely, that can be used in PvE. If comparable buffs that don't stack with MP buffs can't be earned outside of MP, then PvErs that would like those benefits will have have to PvP in MP. I don't want to have to PvP to get buffs to make me better at MP. That is my stance. Now, when Turbine reveals more about the MP systems, what buffs are granted, and hopefully that comparable/non-stackable buffs can be earned elsewhere (from raiding or questing, for example), then I know I and others won't have anything against the MP system. In most games with PvP, this is true, but games with only PvE, people gear up with whatever they get from doing whatever it is they want. I'm not saying there won't be people like you say, but my money is laying on the fact that being maxed out in this game is not going to matter and also that the community is made up of a different breed of gamers than you are used to. If this were true, then there would be no need for player crafting, heck, there wouldn't even be a need for magical items at all. I mean, what would it matter? People don't want better items, right? About this "different breed" of gamers, as I've stated before, it's a very idealistic thought. Just know that yes, there will be some folks of the ilk you mention, yet, there are going to be many, many, many more people who see this as just the next MMOG to play and will only be concerned with advancing their character. There have been plenty of folks who have stated the same point as you about the "calibre" of player for DDO. "Only real roleplayers will come here" they said. I know, because I was one of them. I still play pencil and paper DnD to this day. If you have not already, go take a look at that game. While I met many, many good people there, they weren't concerned with RP all that much. They wanted the next quest, the next best item. This, in a computer game that was based on the penultimate RP table-top game. In honesty, the MP system should only grant benefits/options for MP, in my opinion. We are still in Beta. Things can change and will change. They might make this so to accomodate those that feel as you do. Yep, and I hope so. I'm not one that doesn't want those in MP to not get any rewards, as I've stated many times. I just don't want those rewards to put me in a position to where I have to consider engaging in it to achieve a reward that is desirable in PvE play.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
To everyone who is whining about keeping to the lore of the book/movie, what would be the point? All you would get is a game where we all know exactly what and where to go, who does what, blah, blah, blah. All you would have is a stand alone game where everyone knows the ending.
Comments
I thought I was pretty clear in expressing my concerns. My fault. If the benefits bought from MP points enhance PvE and MP is the only way to get said benefits, the PvE preferred players will have to engage in MP to get those benefits for use in PvE. Let's not be naive here. Everyone wants to be good at what they do and if those benefits take you to that "next gear", then PvE preferred players are going to want them, with the only way of getting them being MP.
All that said, I refer back to the last sentence in the paragraph of mine that was quoted.
I don't think you understand what is going on here. All you get from Monster PvP is a special buff and such. The LOTRO community is different from what you are used to. People aren't going to want to be maxed out just for the sake of being maxed out. There are a lot more RP oriented folks that are going to play and that care more about looking different and playing their roles. As long as you can complete the content in the gear you have, there is no reason other than greed to compete with the Jones'es.
You have an idealistic view of things, I'll give you that. As for understanding, believe me, I understand better than you can imagine . I've been a part of the LOTRO community for about as long as Turbine has had forums up and I spent a brief time involved when Sierra was creating MEO. I think what you are not understanding is that many people don't want to have MP as the only means to get these special buffs.
Sure, I can see where you'd hope for that, but the cold reality is there aren't many people who will "gimp" themselves or that will not make use of something that is potentially beneficial to them. I mean, and take no personal offense as I'm using this only as an example, but if you told me you'd take a +2 sword over a +5 sword of Orc slaying, I'd call you a liar. And let's not argue the magical qualities I just outlined. Those where just easy to use for the purposes of my illustration.
Bottom line is you can take a look at every game out there and sample the players and in every one of them the majority of folks always take weapons/gear/buffs that benefit them the most in whatever their interest is. THe realistic view is that this game will be the same. That's not to say it won't be a great game, by any means. No one knows what exactly will be the benefits for MP other than "buffs", a term used loosely, that can be used in PvE. If comparable buffs that don't stack with MP buffs can't be earned outside of MP, then PvErs that would like those benefits will have have to PvP in MP. I don't want to have to PvP to get buffs to make me better at MP. That is my stance. Now, when Turbine reveals more about the MP systems, what buffs are granted, and hopefully that comparable/non-stackable buffs can be earned elsewhere (from raiding or questing, for example), then I know I and others won't have anything against the MP system.
In honesty, the MP system should only grant benefits/options for MP, in my opinion.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
So true!
*shudder* @ nasty burgers and terrible MMO development.
it's pretty obvious some of the people posting here need to go over and read the FAQ's at the official site. You know who you are, no need to name names. It's going top be a good game at the minimum, maybe even great one. I have never been a big Turbine fan, never even subbed to or bought a Turbine game, but I think they have their stuff together here.
This monster play to me looks as if it will be like playing non persistant toon liek almost a FPS but with MMORPG style combat for a while with the added bonus you get some kind of points to spend on some kind of reward for either your monster play or main toon. I'd kill for a beta key to this one.
I miss DAoC
Right. It has to do with a set of books that were made into a movie and [the game] would never have been released without the movie making the books mainstream. Now that we've cleared that up.
I think the biggest thing that this game has going for it are the people. If the community is heavily RP (as some here have said they are) the game will be a ton of fun for years to come. Look at the shell of a game SWG was, I still had the most fun of any MMORPG in that game because of what the people who played made it. All you need is a half decent sandbox where you can build your sand castle and meet/make your friends.
Right. It has to do with a set of books that were made into a movie and [the game] would never have been released without the movie making the books mainstream. Now that we've cleared that up.
I think the biggest thing that this game has going for it are the people. If the community is heavily RP (as some here have said they are) the game will be a ton of fun for years to come. Look at the shell of a game SWG was, I still had the most fun of any MMORPG in that game because of what the people who played made it. All you need is a half decent sandbox where you can build your sand castle and meet/make your friends.
I disagree, LOTR has been the strongest fantasy story for 50 years, the most read book in the world except the Bible Ive heard say. To make a MMO of it seems pretty natural to me, the fact that they started developing the game before the movies came also makes me belive this more.
The problem has nothing at all to do with whether the PvP has meaning or not. Did you honestly think the reason I loath PvP is because it has no meaning? Come on now, think a little.
How about you PvP fanboys realize, that its PERFECTLY ACCEPTABLE for a game to exist and be non PvP. Go play something else, the entire MMO industry does not have to cater to your every whim with each game.
LOL... such raking venom. More salve please! Sounds to me like you would make a great pvp player; too bad you stay within your anti-competitive click-and-grind viewpoint.
But no matter... all this hoopla and I even got quoted twice, and STILL... no reply to my POINT:
- Just do what WoW did... create PVP servers (make them free-for-all for that matter... many would love it, including me).... AND.... create PVE servers. Everybody is happy, sales increase, maybe Turbine stays in business. No arguements needed...
But as it is, LOTR will flop, and Turbine will go bankrupt. AC2 was a PR nightmare. DDO was insane (trying to charge 15/mo for LESS funcitonality than GW?), and next will be LOTR... 3 strikes and you are out.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
How about you PvP fanboys realize, that its PERFECTLY ACCEPTABLE for a game to exist and be non PvP. Go play something else, the entire MMO industry does not have to cater to your every whim with each game.
LOL... such raking venom. More salve please! Sounds to me like you would make a great pvp player; too bad you stay within your anti-competitive click-and-grind viewpoint.
But no matter... all this hoopla and I even got quoted twice, and STILL... no reply to my POINT:
- Just do what WoW did... create PVP servers (make them free-for-all for that matter... many would love it, including me).... AND.... create PVE servers. Everybody is happy, sales increase, maybe Turbine stays in business. No arguements needed...
But as it is, LOTR will flop, and Turbine will go bankrupt. AC2 was a PR nightmare. DDO was insane (trying to charge 15/mo for LESS funcitonality than GW?), and next will be LOTR... 3 strikes and you are out.
Sounds stupid to me, if LotRO was just a wow clone it would draw no sales what so ever, why? Because WoW exist, nobody want a new wow when there is 6 million people on the old one. To make a game like Turbine is doing is to fill a spot on the market, a game for all those who didnt like WOW, and there are a lot more of those than there are of those who are playing WoW that want to change to LOTRO. Here is the perfect game for those who dont like all the negative sides of a raid centric, faction based PvP game. Its a good way to make money, specially if they truely succede, because then they will loyal Tolkien fans, and movie fans and some general PvE fans as subscribers for years to come, instead of a some players that leave after 6 months to get the next big game at the market.
Why does full looting equal meaningful PvP? I played meaningful PvP games like DAoC and there wasn't any looting. We found meaning behind defending our realm. You had Castles to defend and take, that can actually be razed. Controlling these actually has an impact on the PvE part of the game. It also controls who has access to Darkness Falls, a PvP dungeon.
Full loot is just a money sink and a well designed MMO that implements a good economy system does not need a money sink. Besides, if you've played UO and other full loot games, no one runs around with special gear on. They just run around in crafted gear that are a dime a dozen.
But no matter... all this hoopla and I even got quoted twice, and STILL... no reply to my POINT:
- Just do what WoW did... create PVP servers (make them free-for-all for that matter... many would love it, including me).... AND.... create PVE servers. Everybody is happy, sales increase, maybe Turbine stays in business. No arguements needed...
But as it is, LOTR will flop, and Turbine will go bankrupt. AC2 was a PR nightmare. DDO was insane (trying to charge 15/mo for LESS funcitonality than GW?), and next will be LOTR... 3 strikes and you are out.
What you fail to realize is that classes aren't balanced and aren't meant to be in a PvE game. If you implement PvP servers, the Devs will have to balance the classes out and will piss off all the PvE players and the PvE players are the ones who are really going to stick with this game. There are many PvP games on the way that would blow LOTRO PvP servers out of the water. Also, the forums would go from mature, well thought out posts, to immature, trash talking egotistic fools.
In short...PvP servers would do more harm than good. Every MMORPG does not need to cater to the PvPer, just like every single one doesn't have to cater to the PvEer. You need to just write this game off as a PvE MMO and move on. LOTRO will make plenty of money to stay alive from the LOTR die hards and enthusiasts.
I disagree with you. It is a good system that will prevent the fighting in the community on which class is best and which class needs balancing. We also know how the story ends and how each battle turns out by reading the books. It would be against Tolkien lore to have Orcs and what not sacking villages and winning battles that never even occured during the timeline.
PvP out right ruins a game, because people end up name calling and smack talking and it turns into a competition to max out your character. There are plenty of games out there to where you can do that. This game is centered around providing a LOTR experience, so that you can immerse yourself in the world...not pwn the Hobbit or Orc.
In any sport, smack talking is just part of it... You try to sike the other person out.
I don't think PvP ruins a game, it just makes all the carebears like yourself cry and cut their emo self.
The problem has nothing at all to do with whether the PvP has meaning or not. Did you honestly think the reason I loath PvP is because it has no meaning? Come on now, think a little.
I was'nt responding to anything you said at all I was stating my own opinion, I'm afraid whatever you wrote did'nt seem particlarly interesting enough to read, but since your ranting at my post for some reason I will reply.
If your dumb enough to get ressed and run back to your corpse that you know has already been looted you deserve to get wacked again. As far as leetspeakers as you call them (I'm afraid I dont speak leet), if a few bad words from a 12 year old gets your panties ina bunch well thats just a sign of your own insecurites.
Finally I made it perfectly clear to avoid being traumatized by the nasty pvpers just dont join a war guild and you can blissfully go your merry way.
The problem has nothing at all to do with whether the PvP has meaning or not. Did you honestly think the reason I loath PvP is because it has no meaning? Come on now, think a little.
I was'nt responding to anything you said at all I was stating my own opinion, I'm afraid whatever you wrote did'nt seem particlarly interesting enough to read, but since your ranting at my post for some reason I will reply.
If your dumb enough to get ressed and run back to your corpse that you know has already been looted you deserve to get wacked again. As far as leetspeakers as you call them (I'm afraid I dont speak leet), if a few bad words from a 12 year old gets your panties ina bunch well thats just a sign of your own insecurites.
Finally I made it perfectly clear to avoid being traumatized by the nasty pvpers just dont join a war guild and you can blissfully go your merry way.
And be forced to live the smack talking, constant nerfing, having the devs focus more on the never satisfied PvP crowd than to add real content to the game etc.
What you fail to realize is that classes aren't balanced and aren't meant to be in a PvE game. If you implement PvP servers, the Devs will have to balance the classes out and will piss off all the PvE players and the PvE players are the ones who are really going to stick with this game. There are many PvP games on the way that would blow LOTRO PvP servers out of the water. Also, the forums would go from mature, well thought out posts, to immature, trash talking egotistic fools.
In short...PvP servers would do more harm than good. Every MMORPG does not need to cater to the PvPer, just like every single one doesn't have to cater to the PvEer. You need to just write this game off as a PvE MMO and move on. LOTRO will make plenty of money to stay alive from the LOTR die hards and enthusiasts.
1. Class balancing. There may be a little truth in that statement. Balancing for PvE vs balancing for PvP can be slightly different. I think of eq2 for example. They really had stuck with the dps heirarchy (mage, scout, fighter, priest) so that groups had need for all... and it worked good in their pve. But when they added pvp, the game is not really balanced for it. After 6 months of pve in that game, i tried their pvp, and it was 'ok', semi-fun, but not great like wow or gw where the classes were a little more similar, everyone had a way out generally, etc.
But the other stuff you are saying... disagree.
2. Devs will not HAVE to balance classes out, aka eq2. They added pvp and now those servers are more crowded than the pve, even without the classes being that balanced. It's not great pvp, but it's not that bad either. pvp along with the 2+ xpacks has breathed a little life into the game. And it didn't piss off the PvE people at all... it's a different server. And a little balancing (which they did a little i think) did NOT piss off the pve players as you are saying.
3. If LOTRO added PVP servers, it does not mean that lotro-pvp must be better than all other pvp games on the market.
4. All PvPers are NOT "egotistical trash talking fools". I'm not, and i enjoy pvp, because it adds a level of unpredictability that can not be achieved with current AI.... no trash talking involved there. I just get a little bored with killing the same bear over and over... he spawns, he faces east for 10 seconds, he turns to the north, he walks 20 feet, etc. I enjoy having to look over my shoulder sometimes.... nothing egotistical about that.
5. I don't want to write off LOTRO as a pve-only game. I want to fuss at Turbine, and get them to add pvp. I read LOTR over 30 years ago, read it many times, enjoyed it, feel I have just as much right to enjoy the genre as the next person. And so do you. We all get to vote. We all pay taxes. We all die. AND the most frustrating point is there is nothing to "move on to".... The only part of your point I might agree on in this regard is that I'm 100% sure no one at Turbine is reading this, so any fussing done here is a complete waste of time. For that matter, I would be shocked if anyone at Turbine ever read any user forum about what their games should contain...
6. And so ... LOTRO will flop and Turbine will most likely go out of business. It's hard to argue about future predictions, but this is I see it going: The license will make a good initial surge, but once people realize this is yet another everquest, and the boredom of killing the same old bear over and over gets to them, then subs will drop. If it was backed by a company with tons of money (soe) then they could keep it going at some lower sub level. But it's backed by Turbine, who has failed miserably in their latest 2 MMO attempts. This will be strike 3... it MUST be a big hit, or they will probably go under.
But the other stuff you are saying... disagree.
2. Devs will not HAVE to balance classes out, aka eq2. They added pvp and now those servers are more crowded than the pve, even without the classes being that balanced. It's not great pvp, but it's not that bad either. pvp along with the 2+ xpacks has breathed a little life into the game. And it didn't piss off the PvE people at all... it's a different server. And a little balancing (which they did a little i think) did NOT piss off the pve players as you are saying.
3. If LOTRO added PVP servers, it does not mean that lotro-pvp must be better than all other pvp games on the market.
4. All PvPers are NOT "egotistical trash talking fools". I'm not, and i enjoy pvp, because it adds a level of unpredictability that can not be achieved with current AI.... no trash talking involved there. I just get a little bored with killing the same bear over and over... he spawns, he faces east for 10 seconds, he turns to the north, he walks 20 feet, etc. I enjoy having to look over my shoulder sometimes.... nothing egotistical about that.
5. I don't want to write off LOTRO as a pve-only game. I want to fuss at Turbine, and get them to add pvp. I read LOTR over 30 years ago, read it many times, enjoyed it, feel I have just as much right to enjoy the genre as the next person. And so do you. We all get to vote. We all pay taxes. We all die. AND the most frustrating point is there is nothing to "move on to".... The only part of your point I might agree on in this regard is that I'm 100% sure no one at Turbine is reading this, so any fussing done here is a complete waste of time. For that matter, I would be shocked if anyone at Turbine ever read any user forum about what their games should contain...
6. And so ... LOTRO will flop and Turbine will most likely go out of business. It's hard to argue about future predictions, but this is I see it going: The license will make a good initial surge, but once people realize this is yet another everquest, and the boredom of killing the same old bear over and over gets to them, then subs will drop. If it was backed by a company with tons of money (soe) then they could keep it going at some lower sub level. But it's backed by Turbine, who has failed miserably in their latest 2 MMO attempts. This will be strike 3... it MUST be a big hit, or they will probably go under.
Like you said, it's your opinion. I don't agree with it and there's no reason to argue with you over it further. We will just have to wait and see.
seems to me that there are two distinct groups of people complaining about the MPvP.
The ones who do not think that playing a a non persistent character in the MPvP will give them whatever challenge they are looking for. It's kind of funny how they determined that this will not give them that challenge since they have not even played the game yet isn't it? I cannot predict how challenging it will be but I can for darn sure tell that it will insulate me from trash talking power leveling kiddies whose big thrill comes from attacking characters a dozen levels lower and then spamming obscene emotes and colorful phrases such as I pwned joo noob bitch.
The other group are the players that are scared crap less that someone might lvl faster or get some bennie from the MPvP that they cannot get from sitting around the Prancing Pony and quaffing virtual ales and telling tales of their brave deeds.
<looks in pocket for symapthy>...... so sorry seems as if I am all out there is none to be found
look for me ingame, I will be that orc that just smashed your punkin head with the big club
I miss DAoC
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez