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Vanguard is not a game for Raiders.
ste2000
Member EpicPosts: 6,194
I had to open this thread, because I am increasingly getting frustrated about people saying that Vanguard is a raid game, because in order to get a portion of your uber equipment you need to raid.
True, you will have to.
But what about flipping the coin the other side?
Using the same logic, on the raider point of view, Vanguard should be a solo game and against raiders, because in order to get all the best equiment you are forced to solo, even if you don't like it.
I mean why raiders should put up with hours of boring solo play just to get their last piece of armor? (that's what solo people is complaining about, but on the opposite perspective).
Reality is that Vanguard is not only for Soloers, is not only for Groupers and is not only for Raiders.
This is a game for all round players who enjoy all the 3 gameplays together, and if you can't stand 1 of the different game modes than it ain't for you.
But stop saying that Vanguard is only for raiders because your reasons don't have any solid base and can be steered in the opposite direction fairly easily.
True, you will have to.
But what about flipping the coin the other side?
Using the same logic, on the raider point of view, Vanguard should be a solo game and against raiders, because in order to get all the best equiment you are forced to solo, even if you don't like it.
I mean why raiders should put up with hours of boring solo play just to get their last piece of armor? (that's what solo people is complaining about, but on the opposite perspective).
Reality is that Vanguard is not only for Soloers, is not only for Groupers and is not only for Raiders.
This is a game for all round players who enjoy all the 3 gameplays together, and if you can't stand 1 of the different game modes than it ain't for you.
But stop saying that Vanguard is only for raiders because your reasons don't have any solid base and can be steered in the opposite direction fairly easily.
Comments
There is one clear reality the people complaining about Raiding don't get: Who says there isn't similar or BETTER Non-Raid Loot?
It's simple: 20% of the End Game Loot will be attached to Raiding... ok, that means that 80% of the End Game Loot is NOT Raid related... so, considering there are over 40k items in the game, and a HUGE number of variations of those items, how many End Game items to Loot will there be? Thousands of different Variations is my guess, but lets consider this... Does anyone really think that there will be one Uber Helemt in this game, and you can only get it by Raiding? Come on, there will be HUNDREDS of Helms, and who's to say the non-Raid ones won't be better?
The funniest fact is this: If Raiding End Game Loot is about 20% of all End Game Loot, who really thinks they can get it all, or even the other 80%? Please, a gamer will be lucky to see 1% of this Loot, and Hardcore Gamers won't see much more... For example, look at Mando Armor in SWG... it's been there for almost 2 years, but how many Hardcore Gamers have/had it? Not many, but it was there the whole time. Was that unbalancing? No, because there was other Great Armor out there, it was just different... Just because it's Raid Loot, doesn't mean it will be better than the non-Raid Loot, and Brad himself has said that...
I'll start my own SWG... with Black Jack... and Hookers!!!
In fact, forget the SWG!!!!
Can we talk for a moment about what people mean when they complain about raiding?
In a lot of games raiding consists of going into dungeons and fighting boss mobs that require a significant number of people to kill, for which they are rewarded with the best loot available in the game. Some people don't like this either because they can't make the time commitment raiding takes, or because they prefer smaller, more intimate groups to large raid focused guilds, or because they just find it boring. For whatever reason they just don't like it.
Sigil, to its credit, has done a lot of things to make their game less large raid focused and also to make raiding more assessible. You can complete a raid in stages, which (theoretically at least) opens it up to people who can't play for large chuncks of time at a sitting. There is more group content than raid content. The raid force sizes are smaller. So to be fair, Sigil has attempted to make the game less raid focused and more raid assessible (in some ways) if that is something you want to do.
But there's a catch ...
Stop and ask yourself, why do people raid in the first place? Some of them actually enjoy dungeon encounters, large group tactics, and being part of a small army, etc. But as anyone who has spent meaningful time raiding knows, most of them are there for the drops. I can't tell you how many complaints I have heard over the years from people whose guilds are returning to a dungeon for the upteenth time just because it takes that many times to get everyone the drops they need.
And if you don't believe me, suggest on any message board of any game that has raiding that they should not get the best treasure, and should just raid for raidings sake and see how they react.
Once you realize that a lot of the people on raids are just there to get the loot that will distinguish their character from other people's characters, you can design a game where that is still the case without it coming from raiding. In other words, you will have the same uber versus gimp hierarchies, only you put things out of the average person's reach one way versus another. Which is precisely what Vanguard has done.
Brad has figured out that he can sate the raider mentality without actually having to make as many large scale encounters by providing them an opportunity to be much better than everyone else through other means. That's how you make raiders happy without making the game raid heavy. As long as they can stand in the newbie yard and show off their stuff, and as long as that stuff is somehow out of reach for the average player, they're going to be happy whether that stuff came from a raid or fell off a sod truck.
So yes, Vanguard is less raid oriented than, say, EQ, but not only have they kept the same powergamer versus casual gear disparity, they have amplified it.
The bottom line is that unless you are a certain kind of player you are still going to have sucktastic gear, no different than games that are heavily raid oriented. Don't believe me? Read what Brad wrote about solo and casual gear in his post on the "truth." So for people whose objections to raiding were that it put certain gear out of reach, it's still out of your reach lol.
Now you might ask, if the best loot comes from raiding, and if raiding is more assessible, then why am I not gonna get it? Thanks for asking! It's because it is one thing to GO to a dungeon, and it's quite another thing not to get SPANKED in that dungeon. And what is the big difference maker in an ultra item centric game on whether you get spanked or not? Your gear! What is the big difference maker on whether you get invited to a raid at all? Your gear. So we are back to unless you have the good gear you aren't getting the better gear, which means you are right smack dab where you would have been in a game like EQ, or worse.
So yes, Vanguard (for now, stand by for expansions) is less raid focused, and no, it doesn't change a thing.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
=====================
-Just My Thoughts-
Max
Currently playing: Nothing
Nice essay, pity you missed the point once again.
Ok let's be fair on everyone, and let's try to see the issue from the other point of view pls.
People keep going on with the same old and tired issue, which is that most of people raid because of loot.
I said in my OP that is true so don't try to make a big deal out of it, because we know that.
The real issue here is that you guys seems not to grasps the fact that there are people who don't like solo and will be forced to solo just the way people who don't like raiding will be forced to raid.
So both solo and raiders are damaged, in that sense.
Vanguard has around 60% group content because it is the most neutral game style, which mean that 60% of your time will be spend doing something that you enjoy.
Then if you cannot bare to spend 20% of your time either raiding or soloing, well go and find yourself another game.
I think Sigil has adopted the best compromise, and suggesting that raiding should be scrapped all together is totally unthinkeable, because is part of MMORPGs, like solo content.
What I am saying is, if Raiders are making an effort not to moan about solo content, soloers should do the bloody same, does it make sense?
Again, Vanguard is a game of all rounders, it will require that you play all the different play styles in order to get the best out of it.
If you cannot bare to raid at all, the game is definetly not for you, but stop picking on raiders as if they were the cause of all evil in the world, you need to be more tollerant and acknowledge that there are other people that like different play style than yours, and they need to be taken care of as well.
I don't want to make this a non raider vs raider thread, well maybe I want to.
My question is, why a non raider would like raid oriented gear, when they clearly are not going to need it for non raid quests, solo and group content?
Amathe the raid gear is not out of the reach of anyone, if you want to raid and don't have enough time you can join a casual raiding guild or a not mandatory raiding guild or alliance is your choice. The raid gear need to be the best even if the assigned is only a 20%, why? because monsters tend to be harder, requires a coordination from more than just one group.
Ok, something in which I agree and this will depend of the way devs do this. Is to let the casual / non raid gear to be good enough to try any group zone with the raid geared players. A good example of a zone that should not exist in Vanguard are zones like Riftseekers sanctum.
Dimitrio Darkblade
Founder Leader of Vitae Essentia
http://www.veguild.org
Sometimes he's a bit angry and sarcastic but here is amathe's point in a nutshell.
Start from here:
Say you hate raiding...by hate I mean you will simply puke on your keyboard if you try it. You just really REALLY friggin can't stand it. OK?
On the flip side:
Being in the ultimate doom squad group of butt kicking fools is your cup of tea. So much so that you are pretty darn confident you will play though all the group content and get all the gear sets from it well before the next expansion comes out.
And here in lies the problem for amathe:
At this point, he has already collected the group drops he needs, this means litterally THE ONLY WAY HE CAN FURTHER ADVANCE HIS CHARACTER is by raiding. And that would be absolutely true. And in fact, if he want's to be the MOST diversified grouping character with THE MOST complete set of gear it is the only way he will be able to accomplish this, thus he is litterally FORCED to raid to advance his character.
Now my opinion is that so long as raiding is not an actual bottleneck to content *choke* EQ1 flagging *choke* it really won't be an issue for most people. But for someone like amathe who does in fact truelly need to be the best and most capable grouper possible? Yeah its a deal breaker for him. His reasoning is completely fair. Granted I don't think many people hate raiding quite as much as he does. I also personally feel the route the VG devs are taking will actually make for a more open and free flowing game experience in terms of play style, BUT for someone who fits amathe's personal profile and there certainly are people who do:
1) HATE HATE HATE raiding
and
2) MUST have every possible tool available to group or won't be happy
Then yeah...pretty much any game that has raid drops usable for grouping is going to wreck their day at some point, even if they are essentially = in power to group drops.
If you understand it from that point of view then his posts make more sense, the part that is in actual conflict is "how many people does his argument apply to?" Good friggin luck getting a tangible answer. I know that I actually like the idea of the setup the devs are shooting for, but then I am unlikely to finish all the group content before the first expansion is out so go figure. Raiding won't ever be a bottleneck for me, its just something on the side I could try my hand at periodically if I see fit to do so. So to me the model implies open ness of play style which I really like, will it work well in practice? We'll have to wait and see of course.
There is nothing in this game that says you must solo, or raid.
It is there because not everyone can find a group the second they log on. So would you rather stand in town picking your butt and wait for someone to invite you to a group, or would you rather step outside bash in a few skulls on your own while you wait?
Raiding? Well, I doubt I will ever be in a raid, I would like to be in one every now and then, but rarely do I find the time to do it. The only thing raiding will get you is a better chance at some of the best loot.
Well, so will crafting, they have said in a few diffrent areas the crafting system has a generator in it, that will on occassion give you the oppurtunity to turn your item your crafting into a very rare item. Not sure how it will work, but going to assume it's something set up random and spontaneous to make it so botters will never accomplish it.
Point being you can go through and play this game 100% groups and never raid or solo if you wish. The only thing you will miss out on is the chance to kill some uber boss that it takes a raid party to do. It doesn't mean you will not be able to get some of the best gear.
Not so nice guy!
I agree with you 100%.
But it doesn't change the point that if you somehow manage to pound through all non raid end game content and are at level cap, then the only options left to advance your character will be raiding.
For people who fit amathe's profile that's a deal breaker.
But I believe for most people the setup the devs are shooting for will be just fine. I like it (on paper) and hope it works out just how they seem to want it to.
So then the relevance of the argument comes back to "how many people are serious hard core groupers that will manage to hit all non raid end game content before an expansion and absolutely loathe raiding?"
No clue. My personal opinion is not that many, but without seeing the game out for a year running? It's all total speculation.
I don't think you have even been paying attention. Lots of uber gear will come from group encounters, and there will even be some from solo encounters. And let's face it, even WoW requires at least a group to get anything truly decent. You are now truly grasping at straws.
If you refuse to group your gear will suck, but then you'd be retarded so I don't think you'd notice anyway.
I have to disagree with that... you won't have as many options on high-level gear, but there should be more than enough to completely equip a player...
I'll start my own SWG... with Black Jack... and Hookers!!!
In fact, forget the SWG!!!!
I don't think you have even been paying attention. Lots of uber gear will come from group encounters, and there will even be some from solo encounters. And let's face it, even WoW requires at least a group to get anything truly decent. You are now truly grasping at straws.
People like Amathe knows that 80% of his armor will come from group and solo drops.
The point is that they can't be bothered to try and play some raids to win the other 20%.
That's what pissed me off of all this matter.
If raiders can put up with soloing in order to get a full set, why can't solo people can't make an effort?
Also you don't necessarily have to raid in order to have a set of uber armor.
If your missing Helm and the Boots are found in a raid encounter, and you don't wanna raid, you can always find a similar kind of Helm and Boots in a group/solo encounter.
So theoretically you don't have to raid to have a complete set of fine Armor, unless you want your armor to look the same from head to toe.
I think this is a pretty reasonable compromise, don't you think?
Well to answer that think of it this way. Most people that solo the majority of their play time is because their play time is sporadic, or short. For exsample...
My average schedule:
6am to 7am preparing for work
7am to 6pm working
6pm to 8pm my only time to spend with my daughter, have dinner, go over her homerwork, etc...
8pm to 9:30pm usually my game time
9:30pm to 11 pm my time with my wife.
11pm to 6am trying to get sleep.
That is a casual day for me, then add in various other content, educational meetings <I have 2 to 4 a month.>
daughters Karate class is once a week.
Wifes bowling night
My reef club meetings
My own homework
anyways, I'm sure you get the idea. Peoples lives usually consist of more then the game. We play as much as we possibly can, and while that manages time to get some good groups going, there is no way some of us can spend, 5 or 6 hours putting tof=gether and engageing in a raid.
Don't get me wrong, I am completely satisfied with what Vanguard has made us assume about the game. I don't need uber equipment, I can make up for the lack of equipment with my uber skills!
I was just answering why solo player can't raid, while raid players can solo.
Not so nice guy!
The OP seems to be spouting the party line, which is fine...but this flys in the face of what the Devs seem to be talking about. Generally, when the Devs talk about the game, raiding makes a pronounced and detailed apperance. It just seems like more skull sweat is going into the raiding system and how other systems relate to the raid than anything else. Even the positive beta reviews mention that Diplomacy and crafting are underdevloped ATM. This worries me.
Dont get me wrong, no matter what is said, Brad gets basicly a free shot to try and entertain me again, EQ earned him that. But I am worried about the direction that this game may go. Guess we will have to wait and see.
I'm going to be blunt.
Dude, your a retard. Vanguard will not "require" anything from you. You'll be able to solo and group all you want. Armor and items will be craft-centric. Almost EVERTHING is craftable and "uber equipment" might come from dropping a Goblin King or Dragon... but it also might come from your home town Dwarven King whom seems to like your diplomatic skillz.
Point is... the reason a a society of Goblins protect their king is because he's their leader. He will most likely have the weath of that nation near him and is probably wearing some of the finest gems and jewely that race has found. Does is sound out of reach that when a raiding party finally conquers him that he has common houshold items on him.....?
Your point is backwards.... it follows no logic and your comprehension of whats going on around you is nill ..!
-Zvorak
Well to answer that think of it this way. Most people that solo the majority of their play time is because their play time is sporadic, or short. For exsample...
My average schedule:
6am to 7am preparing for work
7am to 6pm working
6pm to 8pm my only time to spend with my daughter, have dinner, go over her homerwork, etc...
8pm to 9:30pm usually my game time
9:30pm to 11 pm my time with my wife.
11pm to 6am trying to get sleep.
That is a casual day for me, then add in various other content, educational meetings <I have 2 to 4 a month.>
daughters Karate class is once a week.
Wifes bowling night
My reef club meetings
My own homework
anyways, I'm sure you get the idea. Peoples lives usually consist of more then the game. We play as much as we possibly can, and while that manages time to get some good groups going, there is no way some of us can spend, 5 or 6 hours putting tof=gether and engageing in a raid.
Don't get me wrong, I am completely satisfied with what Vanguard has made us assume about the game. I don't need uber equipment, I can make up for the lack of equipment with my uber skills!
I was just answering why solo player can't raid, while raid players can solo.
So, we all must suffer because you won't make a sacrifice like the rest of us have. You simply don't want to develop your character and your whinning because other have made the choice..?
When you dedicate 4 hours of every nite to something... other things have to give. Whatever that cause is. You cannot goto a Gym and demand that you look as fit as all the people who send 20 hours a week there because you really don't have time to work out....! LAZY..!
-Zvorak
The problem has been raiders being awarded gear 400% better then groups and dominating group play with raid gear and groups no longer accepting groupers because new expansions required raid gear for group content. Or it rewarded raiders so unfairly (esp tank classes) to the point group characters just sat "lfg" for hours on end because they couldn't earn experience nearly as fast in group play and thats what players demanded even if designers didn't mean for that to happen. Then the devs responded with "then tank classes are not for you, start over", so drop a character you love with 100 days+ played because the devs are to lazy to fix the problem>? Better fix, player finds a new game!
If you have any questions please ask. I have moved on to WoW from eq and no longer have any desire to play a dead game. Thank you. (posted by another selling his account in EQ1)
So, we all must suffer because you won't make a sacrifice like the rest of us have. You simply don't want to develop your character and your whinning because other have made the choice..?
When you dedicate 4 hours of every nite to something... other things have to give. Whatever that cause is. You cannot goto a Gym and demand that you look as fit as all the people who send 20 hours a week there because you really don't have time to work out....! LAZY..!
-Zvorak
Bad analogy, working out more then an hour or two a day does not give you superior results. It is over-training and actually impedes progress. Arnold may have done it that way but Dorian Yates came in at 300 pounds in around 1990 and blew everyone away. He got that way by intensity, not long hours. Raiders are also not devoting 20 hours a week, they are devoting unhealthy amounts of time and believe me, I can link some times played (and have) proving this.
The problem has been raiders being awarded gear 400% better then groups and dominating group play with raid gear and groups no longer accepting groupers because new expansions required raid gear for group content. Or it rewarded raiders so unfairly (esp tank classes) to the point group characters just sat "lfg" for hours on end because they couldn't earn experience nearly as fast in group play and thats what players demanded even if designers didn't mean for that to happen. Then the devs responded with "then tank classes are not for you, start over", so drop a character you love with 100 days+ played because the devs are to lazy to fix the problem>? Better fix, player finds a new game!
If you have any questions please ask. I have moved on to WoW from eq and no longer have any desire to play a dead game. Thank you. (posted by another selling his account in EQ1)
The point is that they can't be bothered to try and play some raids to win the other 20%.
That's what pissed me off of all this matter.
If raiders can put up with soloing in order to get a full set, why can't solo people can't make an effort?
Also you don't necessarily have to raid in order to have a set of uber armor.
If your missing Helm and the Boots are found in a raid encounter, and you don't wanna raid, you can always find a similar kind of Helm and Boots in a group/solo encounter.
So theoretically you don't have to raid to have a complete set of fine Armor, unless you want your armor to look the same from head to toe.
I think this is a pretty reasonable compromise, don't you think?
You miss the whole point completely. Solo vs Raid is generally a 'how much free time do I have' issue. People who have 5 hours a day to waste on a game CAN get the gear that they want. People who do not have the time to raid CAN NOT.
It's really that simple.
Some, such as myself, fall outside of this. I just hate BEING FORCED to set aside 4-5 hours of my time for a raid in order to get a piece of gear that I would like. For that reason also (being forced) is why I may not play -- it all depends, of course if I am able to 'hire' a raid party to go and get a particular item for me...
=====================
-Just My Thoughts-
Max
Currently playing: Nothing
Well to answer that think of it this way. Most people that solo the majority of their play time is because their play time is sporadic, or short. For exsample...
My average schedule:
6am to 7am preparing for work
7am to 6pm working
6pm to 8pm my only time to spend with my daughter, have dinner, go over her homerwork, etc...
8pm to 9:30pm usually my game time
9:30pm to 11 pm my time with my wife.
11pm to 6am trying to get sleep.
That is a casual day for me, then add in various other content, educational meetings <I have 2 to 4 a month.>
daughters Karate class is once a week.
Wifes bowling night
My reef club meetings
My own homework
anyways, I'm sure you get the idea. Peoples lives usually consist of more then the game. We play as much as we possibly can, and while that manages time to get some good groups going, there is no way some of us can spend, 5 or 6 hours putting tof=gether and engageing in a raid.
Don't get me wrong, I am completely satisfied with what Vanguard has made us assume about the game. I don't need uber equipment, I can make up for the lack of equipment with my uber skills!
I was just answering why solo player can't raid, while raid players can solo.
Nice try but you got everything wrong.
Solo doesn't mean casual in my books.
Casual is the people who hasn't got time, while the solo player is the one who like play by himself.
Vanguard is not a game for casual players anyway, so the problem doesn't even arise for them, since they shouldn' t play this game in the first place.
We are talking here about people who has a good amount of time to dedicate to this game, and this kind of player can be either Solo or Raid oriented.
Just forget about the equation Casual=Solo, because in Vanguard the solo player needs to dedicate the same amount of time as a raider.
So you missed an opportunity to shut you gob.
Although I understand that you needed to show off your funny side..........you are splitting my sides..........
Serious death penalties makes every close call an adrenaline rush, and every minor achievement a major victory. This alternative rule-set should be in all MMORPGs.
to be honest, from what i have read in vanguard you will be "forced" to spend that same 4-5 hours if you want to complete a small group dungeon as well.
I'm sure not all of them are like that, and on the days you cannot spend a few hours in a group there are other things to do like crafting and diplomacy and what not.
from what i have seen from most the people that complain about raiding it has nothing to do with the amount of time they play, sure everyone is different and yeah some people don't have the time for it or the grouping either.
but i see people that just don't like the raids themselves but still spend alot of time playing the game. some people have had bad experiences with guilds/raids in the past and now refuse to raid in any game.
some people hated raiding in eq1 (and i cant say that i blame them that much) because it was just a huge zerg fest and at one point it was literally the only thing you could do if you wanted to get upgrades for your character.
so i think it is alot more than just not having the time to raid, overall....some people seem to want it all and they want it all by not having to raid.
i like your new style of posting that doesn't always end up as flame bait or generalizing people, i am not being sarcastic either....im glad we can discuss vanguard in a civilized manner finally.
anyways you bring up some great points, all that stuff you mention was true in eq1 alot of people spent ungodly amounts of time to get all those AA's and raid gear that they just zerg with alot more people than the content was meant for.
however i am confident that they will learn from their mistakes that they made with eq1 and they have already proven some of that with having raid caps (even though alot of the ex eq1 players complain about it) that in it self is the best thing they can do to improve raiding from eq1 IMO.
if they can balance a raid encounter for 40 people and only allow 40 people to participate in that raid, that will be huge and it will make raids in vanguard alot more fun and challenging than they were in eq1.
i still feel that they should make some of the raid encounters instances (IMO raids that are instances does not hurt the community like small group dungeons would) that way they can be more dynamic.
i also hope they keep the raid/group/solo/crafted gear closer to each other as far as quality, they have said that all the best items in the game will come from all those areas but they have not got into specifics yet.
but anyways, i think if they stick to their promises and keep small group content at 80% regardless of lvl range, and make soloing/raiding a fun alternative to grouping people wont mind raiding so much in vanguard.
Proof raiders playing unhealthy amounts of time:
Hit level 75 at 1:23PM central time on Wednesday, Sept 20, 2006!! Total time since first server up was 19h43m with total play time of ~16h15m. This was quickly followed by fellow teammates and guildies:
for your viewing pleasure posted by Final Door members on Stromm server boards
If you have any questions please ask. I have moved on to WoW from eq and no longer have any desire to play a dead game. Thank you. (posted by another selling his account in EQ1)
We are talking here about people who has a good amount of time to dedicate to this game, and this kind of player can be either Solo or Raid oriented.
Just forget about the equation Casual=Solo, because in Vanguard the solo player needs to dedicate the same amount of time as a raider.
So you missed an opportunity to shut you gob.
Although I understand that you needed to show off your funny side..........you are splitting my sides..........
Great we won't play, then Brad can stop the lies and you can suffer the consequences of a piss poor small player base! Thanks for clearing it up casuals aren't wanted!
If you have any questions please ask. I have moved on to WoW from eq and no longer have any desire to play a dead game. Thank you. (posted by another selling his account in EQ1)
Well to answer that think of it this way. Most people that solo the majority of their play time is because their play time is sporadic, or short. For exsample...
My average schedule:
6am to 7am preparing for work
7am to 6pm working
6pm to 8pm my only time to spend with my daughter, have dinner, go over her homerwork, etc...
8pm to 9:30pm usually my game time
9:30pm to 11 pm my time with my wife.
11pm to 6am trying to get sleep.
That is a casual day for me, then add in various other content, educational meetings <I have 2 to 4 a month.>
daughters Karate class is once a week.
Wifes bowling night
My reef club meetings
My own homework
anyways, I'm sure you get the idea. Peoples lives usually consist of more then the game. We play as much as we possibly can, and while that manages time to get some good groups going, there is no way some of us can spend, 5 or 6 hours putting tof=gether and engageing in a raid.
Don't get me wrong, I am completely satisfied with what Vanguard has made us assume about the game. I don't need uber equipment, I can make up for the lack of equipment with my uber skills!
I was just answering why solo player can't raid, while raid players can solo.
So, we all must suffer because you won't make a sacrifice like the rest of us have. You simply don't want to develop your character and your whinning because other have made the choice..?
When you dedicate 4 hours of every nite to something... other things have to give. Whatever that cause is. You cannot goto a Gym and demand that you look as fit as all the people who send 20 hours a week there because you really don't have time to work out....! LAZY..!
-Zvorak
So I am supposed to sacrafice what? Job, family? lol, I make enough sacrafice by playing a game with the likes of you.
What makes you think the game should cater to you, but not me? What makes you feel like you rate higher then I do?
Not so nice guy!
Well to answer that think of it this way. Most people that solo the majority of their play time is because their play time is sporadic, or short. For exsample...
My average schedule:
6am to 7am preparing for work
7am to 6pm working
6pm to 8pm my only time to spend with my daughter, have dinner, go over her homerwork, etc...
8pm to 9:30pm usually my game time
9:30pm to 11 pm my time with my wife.
11pm to 6am trying to get sleep.
That is a casual day for me, then add in various other content, educational meetings <I have 2 to 4 a month.>
daughters Karate class is once a week.
Wifes bowling night
My reef club meetings
My own homework
anyways, I'm sure you get the idea. Peoples lives usually consist of more then the game. We play as much as we possibly can, and while that manages time to get some good groups going, there is no way some of us can spend, 5 or 6 hours putting tof=gether and engageing in a raid.
Don't get me wrong, I am completely satisfied with what Vanguard has made us assume about the game. I don't need uber equipment, I can make up for the lack of equipment with my uber skills!
I was just answering why solo player can't raid, while raid players can solo.
Nice try but you got everything wrong.
Solo doesn't mean casual in my books.
Casual is the people who hasn't got time, while the solo player is the one who like play by himself.
Vanguard is not a game for casual players anyway, so the problem doesn't even arise for them, since they shouldn' t play this game in the first place.
We are talking here about people who has a good amount of time to dedicate to this game, and this kind of player can be either Solo or Raid oriented.
Just forget about the equation Casual=Solo, because in Vanguard the solo player needs to dedicate the same amount of time as a raider.
So you missed an opportunity to shut you gob.
Although I understand that you needed to show off your funny side..........you are splitting my sides..........
so, you feel the game should cater to you, but I shouldn't even be a concern to the developers? What makes you think you rate higher then I do?
And your wrong, a casual player is someone who plays at their own pace, he can play 12 hours a day and still take a week to get to level 10.
I am usually a solo player, because with my limited time, I don't chose to stand around for 35 minutes of my two hour session with my LFG on waiting for someone to invite me. I choose to do my own thing in my time, and a lot of times that leads to playing solo.
Why would I want to waste the time of setting a group for 45 minutes just to get half way through a dungeon and say, "Sorry guy I gotta go." ? I don't if I only have 2 hours to play, I will go kill stuff on my own without inconvienceing other people, if I can I will turn on my LFG and hope a group comes a long.
Not so nice guy!