Originally posted by BlazinBlades Okay well I appreciate what you just posted, basically form your post I get the understanding from your line of thinking as to how SOE is being affected by SWG former players. Well I have few simple questions, what happens if Vanguard turns into a huge success? What happens if SOEs next game turns into being a create game and is a huge success? What happens then? Bring it on down now.
Monkeys will quite literally fly out my ass.
And Wildcat... where was the fun in EQ2? I've played both and WoW was a ton of fun, while EQ was a chore that required grouping to scratch your ass.
Ofc since nearly all your posts are anti-SoE i highly doubt you have a non biased view towards EQ2.So i think the question should be reversed to you first.Where is NOT fun in EQ2 as compared to other mmropgs?
Even many former players will buy another SOE game, if the game is good and people are playing it, many of them will buy it, you can mark that down that I said that, for future reference. You do not have to let yourself lose though, the game is gone, and it wont be back. SOE will make many more games and be very successful, they may even make SWG2, and if they do, it will be successful as well; there is nothing that any of you can do about that.
I, and many others, disagree.
Vanguard had gotten as much bad press over $OE's involvement as good press. People still fear Star Trek will be gobbled up by $OE. There is damage being done to Sony every day because of what they did to SWG to the point that they're now the #4 online game company out there.
Yes, many will buy another $OE product, but far more won't because of this debacle.
I have to respectfully disagree with you, as many others do. Vanguard has most certainly received some bad press; however it has by far received more positive press then bad by a long shot. As for SOE themselves, I have seen things like this happen far too many times in a wide varied of companies who have done far worst then SOE could ever do and have turned around and become king of the hill the following quarter. But only time will tell who is wrong and who is right. Bring it on down now.
Lol I guess we know now after seeing SONY ONLINE's report of major loss for the quater..lol
They are losing money and cutting jobs as we speak I think.
Oh well, you can't be right ... some of the time I guess...lol
______________________________ I usually picture the Career builder commercial with the room full of monkeys and upside down sales chart when thinking about the SOE/SWG decision making process..... SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes." Ref NGE Winner of the worst MMOS goes to.... the NGE and SWG..!!! http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadFeature=1034&bhcp=1
And if the DC Comics MMO is a success they will get some subs back but sadly the DC MMO is a stacked deck against them. You already have CoX out there now that has a large chunk of the super hero MMO fans. Then you will have Marvel's hat in the ring around the sametime as the DC MMO. So not only is the DC MMO gonna get compared to CoX, its going to get compared to the Marvel one as well. If it doesnt make number 1 in that list then SOE will lose even more face. Even if the game is stable.
Again Blaz dont hold your breath. And stop counting the eggs as chickens.
Kai
Not to mention that the same geniuses who created CoX is making Marvel. $OE has nothing on Cryptic as far as fun, stable and bug free games.
DC doesn't have a chance... especially since Marvel will be cross platform as well.
Shayde - SWG (dead) Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled - Some deluded SWG fanboi who pities me. I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too. 09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
Originally posted by hercules Originally posted by Shayde Originally posted by BlazinBlades Okay well I appreciate what you just posted, basically form your post I get the understanding from your line of thinking as to how SOE is being affected by SWG former players. Well I have few simple questions, what happens if Vanguard turns into a huge success? What happens if SOEs next game turns into being a create game and is a huge success? What happens then? Bring it on down now.
Monkeys will quite literally fly out my ass.
And Wildcat... where was the fun in EQ2? I've played both and WoW was a ton of fun, while EQ was a chore that required grouping to scratch your ass. Ofc since nearly all your posts are anti-SoE i highly doubt you have a non biased view towards EQ2.So i think the question should be reversed to you first.Where is NOT fun in EQ2 as compared to other mmropgs? Played it when I had Station Pass. Forced grouping, grind insanity and I hated how the classes were set up. That, and the questing felt lame and uninvolved.
Biggest thing was the fact you needed a group to scratch your own ass. They really focused on the grind of the game instead of the fun. WoW is the opposite, and that's one big reason why they have over 20 times EQ2's subscribers.
Shayde - SWG (dead) Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled - Some deluded SWG fanboi who pities me. I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too. 09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
And if the DC Comics MMO is a success they will get some subs back but sadly the DC MMO is a stacked deck against them. You already have CoX out there now that has a large chunk of the super hero MMO fans. Then you will have Marvel's hat in the ring around the sametime as the DC MMO. So not only is the DC MMO gonna get compared to CoX, its going to get compared to the Marvel one as well. If it doesnt make number 1 in that list then SOE will lose even more face. Even if the game is stable.
Again Blaz dont hold your breath. And stop counting the eggs as chickens.
Kai
Not to mention that the same geniuses who created CoX is making Marvel. $OE has nothing on Cryptic as far as fun, stable and bug free games.
DC doesn't have a chance... especially since Marvel will be cross platform as well.
It really goes to illustrate how poorly SOE is managed. They're jumping headlong into a subgenre space that's already covered, and has other competitors on the way. They keep gobbling up big IP (SWG, MxO, DC etc) seemingly more interested in swinging for the big home run rather than in focusing on making great games and taking good care of existing customers.
DC looks great to the CEO right now, with him gushing over it's combat mechanics in his blog. Any guessers on how soon he'll be ordering up the combat revamp on this one too? I say six months into live.
The MMO industry is still young, and the Pre-CU fans of SWG were causualities in a struggle no-one won.
Originally posted by Fishermage That's the SOE spin on things. SOE, not LA, is at least 98% at fault. I give LA 2% because they trusted SOE and believed their lies. here is my evidence: So a few months ago The Man comes along and says "What can we do to make this the most fun game it can possibly be?" It was the lead designer who holed-up in his office for a few days and then said, "Hey, come look at this." There's no way we can do that. There's no way we should do that. Man that's fun. The Man will never let us get away with doing that. We can't do it. We shouldn't do it. Oh man that is fun. When an executive producer sees something that is impossible to do, but which is too fun not to do, he makes a noise like "Hoooooooooph". My job was to be the guy to say, "Yes we can do that." I had to say this about forty times a day for two months. Lead Designer said it too, of course, but no one believed him, because he's crazy. Obviously. And they would only believe me for a few minutes at a time. It's frustrating to see the posts about Raph rolling over in his grave, crying himself to sleep, seeing all his design thrown out the window, etc. The notion seems to be that Raph's game is slow-paced, deliberate, social, "worldy", and in no case ever "fun" vs. this change which tosses-out everything Koster-esque about Galaxies. Specifically, that 'removing the Raph' is what makes it fun. First off, Star Wars Galaxies is already a whole lot of fun for a whole lot of people. And it was very successful. And Fast Action Combat and the introduction of classes based on iconic Star Wars character archtypes doesn't toss-out everything Koster-esque about Galaxies. Far from it. The social elements of Galaxies' design remain, and for good reason. MMOs must be MMOs and not just big single-player games that everyone just happens to play all at once. We wouldn't have gotten things like player cities, entertainers and so on without Raph, and I wouldn't want Galaxies to be without them. Simply removing them wouldn't make the game more fun anyway. There's a lot of cool in Galaxies. We're making all of it easier to see, easier to get to. """ That was from JFreeman's own blod about how He and lordPall (both SOE people) developed and then SOLD IT UPSTAIRS. Now on to Brenlo of SOE: """So, I wanted to clarify that we did, here at SOE conceive and develop the NGE. We did so with the best of intentions, to try and make a better game. No blame or buck is being passed. We can, and I am sure many of us will, debate for years on end whether this was a good idea. Personally, I believe the concept of the NGE was sound. Some smart guys had some good ideas to make the game better, Jeff being one of them, and they went for it. A bold move and honestly, I am happy to be a part of a company that is not afraid to try something different. Where did we go wrong? Delivery, we failed in our timing and communication. That is where we let you down most, SWG faithful, and for that I truly apologize. """" So there ya go. The NGE came 100% from SOE, and not LA. The SOE spinmeisters have fake people posting all day and night on websites to blame LA for this, but when push comes to shove they have to admit it was their fault, their doing, and THEY CONVINCED LA IT WAS THE DIRECTION TO TAKE. Even prior to the NGE it was Smedley's mismanagaement of the greatest license in the history of licensing and made it a mediocre product by refusing to fix what was wrong. Okay, I showed you mine, now where is YOUR evidence that LA is at fault?
Oh come off it. Seriously, think about this for one minute. Think about it. All the other MMO companies are drooling at World of Warcrafts numbers right? Now SOE has a few games they could try to turn into World of Warcraft, see if they couldn't get some of those numbers. They coudl have done it to EverQuest 2, a game that was still fairly new and was fantasy based. OR They could have done it with SWG/MxO/PlanetSide etc..
Now I don't know the numbers, but if I was a betting man, I'd say SWG would have a better subscription rate then EQ2 because it has no big competition. EQ2 on the other hand had to battle against World of Warcfrat. Now they would have known this was a risk, so what game do you think they would have tinkered with? SWG which was doing fine on it's own, or EQ2 which is still doing fine but maybe might have the potential to stand up against World of Warcraft. And if that worked they could think about doing that with their other games. Remember, this is still just an experiment, they don't know how it will turn out.
So if you were SOE, which game would you choose? That's right, you would pick EQ2. If it failed you could at least fall back on to SWG which was a much safer move then falling back onto EQ2.
But wait.. MAYBE. The guys over at LA said hey.. we want the numbers Blizzard is getting, do what they do! Since LA only has influence on SWG.. that's the only one which could change. I got just as burned by the NGE. But it's pointless to sit there blaming SOE. Because you are nothing then a LA fanboi if you think they haven't released bombs or made games worse with patches.
And for the record, if you really are going to hate SOE, blame the devs and upper management. I don't think the devs for the other games had any idea and deserve harsh words.
I personally believe $OE looked at WoW's numbers and thought that the only property that could come close was SWG. EQ2 was just a more polished version of the same old shit. It didn't have the draw "Star Wars" has.
Sure, everyone talks a mean game with "Everquest".. but it was just the most successful niche game for the time. Like saying Guitar Hero is the best Guitar-simulation game. Yeah, it is popular, but only a small portion of the TOTAL market. At it's HIGHEST point, EQ had 500k. That's 1/14th WoW.
So they took the greed route. They picked the horse they thought would bring them to WoW, and beat it to death.
Shayde - SWG (dead) Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled - Some deluded SWG fanboi who pities me. I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too. 09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
Originally posted by Shayde I personally believe $OE looked at WoW's numbers and thought that the only property that could come close was SWG. EQ2 was just a more polished version of the same old shit. It didn't have the draw "Star Wars" has.
Sure, everyone talks a mean game with "Everquest".. but it was just the most successful niche game for the time. Like saying Guitar Hero is the best Guitar-simulation game. Yeah, it is popular, but only a small portion of the TOTAL market. At it's HIGHEST point, EQ had 500k. That's 1/14th WoW.
So they took the greed route. They picked the horse they thought would bring them to WoW, and beat it to death.
I thought they has a press release, several years ago, that said EQ had reached 750k subscribers. Currently, SOE has fewer subscribers across all their games combined, than they had with EQ at its peak.
They have also changed EQ2 to be much more like WoW than EQ since it was released. You can now solo most of the game and the crafting system has been simplified. They have made the changes over time, instead of all at once. It has still pissed off some customers, but many fewer than the NGE did.
Comments
And Wildcat... where was the fun in EQ2? I've played both and WoW was a ton of fun, while EQ was a chore that required grouping to scratch your ass.
Ofc since nearly all your posts are anti-SoE i highly doubt you have a non biased view towards EQ2.So i think the question should be reversed to you first.Where is NOT fun in EQ2 as compared to other mmropgs?
Vanguard had gotten as much bad press over $OE's involvement as good press. People still fear Star Trek will be gobbled up by $OE. There is damage being done to Sony every day because of what they did to SWG to the point that they're now the #4 online game company out there.
Yes, many will buy another $OE product, but far more won't because of this debacle.
I have to respectfully disagree with you, as many others do. Vanguard has most certainly received some bad press; however it has by far received more positive press then bad by a long shot. As for SOE themselves, I have seen things like this happen far too many times in a wide varied of companies who have done far worst then SOE could ever do and have turned around and become king of the hill the following quarter. But only time will tell who is wrong and who is right. Bring it on down now.
Lol I guess we know now after seeing SONY ONLINE's report of major loss for the quater..lol
They are losing money and cutting jobs as we speak I think.
Oh well, you can't be right ... some of the time I guess...lol
______________________________
I usually picture the Career builder commercial with the room full of monkeys and upside down sales chart when thinking about the SOE/SWG decision making process.....
SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes." Ref NGE
Winner of the worst MMOS goes to.... the NGE and SWG..!!! http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadFeature=1034&bhcp=1
DC doesn't have a chance... especially since Marvel will be cross platform as well.
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
And Wildcat... where was the fun in EQ2? I've played both and WoW was a ton of fun, while EQ was a chore that required grouping to scratch your ass.
Ofc since nearly all your posts are anti-SoE i highly doubt you have a non biased view towards EQ2.So i think the question should be reversed to you first.Where is NOT fun in EQ2 as compared to other mmropgs?
Played it when I had Station Pass. Forced grouping, grind insanity and I hated how the classes were set up. That, and the questing felt lame and uninvolved.
Biggest thing was the fact you needed a group to scratch your own ass. They really focused on the grind of the game instead of the fun. WoW is the opposite, and that's one big reason why they have over 20 times EQ2's subscribers.
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
DC doesn't have a chance... especially since Marvel will be cross platform as well.
It really goes to illustrate how poorly SOE is managed. They're jumping headlong into a subgenre space that's already covered, and has other competitors on the way. They keep gobbling up big IP (SWG, MxO, DC etc) seemingly more interested in swinging for the big home run rather than in focusing on making great games and taking good care of existing customers.
DC looks great to the CEO right now, with him gushing over it's combat mechanics in his blog. Any guessers on how soon he'll be ordering up the combat revamp on this one too? I say six months into live.
The MMO industry is still young, and the Pre-CU fans of SWG were causualities in a struggle no-one won.
SWG Team Mtg.
Oh come off it. Seriously, think about this for one minute. Think about it. All the other MMO companies are drooling at World of Warcrafts numbers right? Now SOE has a few games they could try to turn into World of Warcraft, see if they couldn't get some of those numbers. They coudl have done it to EverQuest 2, a game that was still fairly new and was fantasy based. OR They could have done it with SWG/MxO/PlanetSide etc..
Now I don't know the numbers, but if I was a betting man, I'd say SWG would have a better subscription rate then EQ2 because it has no big competition. EQ2 on the other hand had to battle against World of Warcfrat. Now they would have known this was a risk, so what game do you think they would have tinkered with? SWG which was doing fine on it's own, or EQ2 which is still doing fine but maybe might have the potential to stand up against World of Warcraft. And if that worked they could think about doing that with their other games. Remember, this is still just an experiment, they don't know how it will turn out.
So if you were SOE, which game would you choose? That's right, you would pick EQ2. If it failed you could at least fall back on to SWG which was a much safer move then falling back onto EQ2.
But wait.. MAYBE. The guys over at LA said hey.. we want the numbers Blizzard is getting, do what they do! Since LA only has influence on SWG.. that's the only one which could change. I got just as burned by the NGE. But it's pointless to sit there blaming SOE. Because you are nothing then a LA fanboi if you think they haven't released bombs or made games worse with patches.
And for the record, if you really are going to hate SOE, blame the devs and upper management. I don't think the devs for the other games had any idea and deserve harsh words.
only property that could come close was SWG. EQ2 was just a more
polished version of the same old shit. It didn't have the draw "Star
Wars" has.
Sure, everyone talks a mean game with "Everquest".. but it was just the
most successful niche game for the time. Like saying Guitar Hero is the
best Guitar-simulation game. Yeah, it is popular, but only a small
portion of the TOTAL market. At it's HIGHEST point, EQ had 500k. That's
1/14th WoW.
So they took the greed route. They picked the horse they thought would bring them to WoW, and beat it to death.
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
reached 750k subscribers. Currently, SOE has fewer subscribers
across all their games combined, than they had with EQ at its peak.
They have also changed EQ2 to be much more like WoW than EQ since it
was released. You can now solo most of the game and the crafting
system has been simplified. They have made the changes over time,
instead of all at once. It has still pissed off some customers,
but many fewer than the NGE did.