The editorial makes a good point. But if you really think about it, I think there can be little debate that women are portrayed in a way that objectifies them much more frequeuntly than men in MMORPGs, and in video games in general. I think there can also be little debate that female gamers have to put up with a lot of crap that they shouldn't from immature male gamers when they go online. Why sexism is considered more acceptable than racism or other forms of bigotry I can't say, but in terms of how GMs and other moderaters rsepond to offenses and also in terms of how frequently you encounter it...it seems that it is. I suspect that things will naturally improve as female gamers become more common, but if you think that there isn't currently a problem you are deluding yourself.
I don't want to write this, and you don't want to read it. But now it's too late for both of us.
Originally posted by korvass perhaps women of the world should perhaps be using these stereotypes, and this power that they can so easily wield over man to better their collective lot in life,
What did you think they have been doing since the beginning of time? In the past, it was said that men rule the world, but women rule men. Women will always have more power in the sexual arena, and sex controls everything.
There certainly is sexism, but it's in the clothing, rather than the body type of avatars. Males are usually fully armoured, while females are scantily-clad - even if they're both wearing the exact same item. World of Warcraft is a particularly good example of this.
However, I like it when the game allow some place for the grotesteque as well. I understand that we can't play bad-looking avatars...but grotesteque are fun. Some games forget that grostesteque part completely...shouldn't be overlooked, nobody can even remotedly look as bad as these toons, and they are great fun to.
You know...there were females trolls in EQ, just as there was male-gnomes! I think that they add a lot to the FUN factor of the game.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
"The reality is, the ideals of beauty are hardwired into our brains. It's in our programming. So it makes sense to me that when we develop the capacity to create virtual worlds, we incorporate those ideals into its programming."
It's not hardwired in our brains. It's only a ideal of modern western society. You don't need to go so far back in time where the female attributes were the exact opposite of today. And if you look at other cultures, especially old tribal ones you notice it's far from the ideals of western society.
Are "beautiful" people victims? Yes in fact they are, because they are judged by their looks and are also more often subjects of sexual harrassments. But even more harrassed are the ones not reaching the standards, which is more the issue. And is it fit for a modern democratic society that a person has an advantage over another based purely on looks? No.
So why should we incorporate ideals in games? Why are ideals good? We shouldn't cause they aren't good as far as I'm concerned. I'm not saying it directly makes a gamer anorectic to run around in a thin, big breasted elf or a muscular blond paladin, but it even more sets an image of the "ideal" body as a norm in our sub-consioussnes, something our society don't need any more than it already has.
I agree that it's not strange that the ideals are over-represented in games considering games are fantasy worlds where we can be those ideals. And we should be able to be those ideals aswell, among other ideals.
But that doesn't mean that the developers have to create games that even more sexualises women and normalises gender prejudices, both male and female, does it?
Sexism sells. And people, especially women suffer from it. If the gaming community wants more women in it, game developers and comercialists have to rethink instead of further playing on the sexist norms.
Originally posted by shae BUT, take it one step further and I think it starts to become clear that the gaming industry is clearly sending a signal that, while it may also apply to men now and again, the over sexualization of the female persona is what they are going for.
Unfortunately you have cause and effect completely in reverse. Game companies are, let me say again, commercial companies. They will do what ever it takes to sell more games, and the fact that they use female rather than male models in their ad campaigns proves exactly one thing: it sells better. That's the only signal they are really sending.
Well obviously enough, I don't agree with you. Yes game companies are indeed commercial companies and not once in my first post did I say it does not sell better? Which still does NOT change the fact of what they are doing, does it? Because it makes them more money, should it be ok, where do I as a female consumer of these products draw the line. Well the obvious answer is, wherever the hell I want, I'm a consumer and that's my right. It's also my right to point out exactly what it is, over sexualization of the female gender. Right or wrong, that's just what it is.
By the way, care to explain why all women's magazines have female models at the cover? All men's magazines have female models at the cover too - so logically, using female models is the best way to sell games to both sexes, no?
Absolutely, I'd be more then happy to explain why. Because they're fashion magazines, period! lol. I mean thats like saying: "Well playboy has a naked girls on it's cover every week, and they sell well, so logically it's the best way to sell game boxes too?"
No, no, no. That's the entire point, the market, the promotional content and the in game content is NOT proportional to the markets current demographic because it excludes, belittles and demeans an entire section of the play base within the gaming community, women. I'm not saying it's the end and be all, I'm not saying millions of women in the world care about all that much, I'm just saying it exists. It's in the gaming industry, it's on these boards and it's in the games themselves.
This isn't the fashion industry, this isn't the make-up or clothing industry, this is a commercial industry in gaming, for everyone!
Many of the views on this thread, while understandable, seem strange to me; for example, "protecting" young girls from "unrealistic ideals" seems counter-productive since those who conform will nevertheless be the ones with the most success in life, no matter how unrealistic the standards may seem. Yes, beauty ideals have changed from time to time, usually in response to changing health norms; but it's not like the opposite sex would just suddenly go, "gosh, we were wrong all along, lets go for fat women from now on".
This I agree with you on. Personally, I think a girls (or a boys) oppinion of themselves should come from themselves, their parents, brothers, sisters, friends. Yes magazines, TV, Movies and now video games set unrealistic ideals but personally I've never looked at Laura Croft and thought to myself: "Yeah, I'm supposed to look like that".
I think and hope most younger people are smarter then that but at the same time I think we need to be reasonable, I think we need to at least show an option, show some diversity. I enjoy looking at good looking guy just as much as the next girl but do I want to see one half naked on every game box I buy? Yeah... uh, not so much.
It's not hardwired in our brains. It's only a ideal of modern western society.
Unless you know how to change those ideals really fast, it hardly makes any difference. I for one am a bit hesitant in believing that you could somehow convince me to start preferring fatties. The ideal tends to go hand in hand with health norms, so what we have now seems more natural to me in the sense that you will survive regardless of body type, whereas in the past you were either fat or dead.
Are "beautiful" people victims? Yes in fact they are, because they are judged by their looks and are also more often subjects of sexual harrassments.
By that logic, we would have to conclude that anyone who does better than others in anything is a victim. So I guess all I can do is hope that I too will one day become a victim.
But even more harrassed are the ones not reaching the standards, which is more the issue.
But what meaning does the term "victim" have once you have so neatly included every person who ever lived in the victim category? If we are all victims anyway, clearly nothing can be done about it.
And is it fit for a modern democratic society that a person has an advantage over another based purely on looks? No.
Do you really believe that the current social system can change human nature? I mean, good luck with that, considering that human nature hasn't changed one bit for the last million years or so...
it even more sets an image of the "ideal" body as a norm in our sub-consioussnes, something our society don't need any more than it already has.
The image is in our heads already, and so we prefer to play games that live up to it.
But that doesn't mean that the developers have to create games that even more sexualises women and normalises gender prejudices, both male and female, does it?
Yes they do if they want someone to actually buy their game.
Sexism sells.
No, sex sells. Sexism, at least in this context, is simply confusion about which came first, cause or effect.
If the gaming community wants more women in it, game developers and comercialists have to rethink instead of further playing on the sexist norms.
If this is what it took to get more women to play, don't you think everyone and his dog was already doing it? That's the great thing about free market economy, discrimination has no place in it because money is always good no matter who you get it from.
I have to disagree with some of the other posts here. I personally am looking for a gritty hard world which has no room for this manga bikini crap. Nothing ruins emmersion more for me than this issue. Unfortunately I'm not in the majority.
Which still does NOT change the fact of what they are doing, does it?
Sexism refers to a motive to discriminate against a certain gender. The only motive game companies have is to make money, so it can't have anything to do with sexism. I guess I can agree on over-sexualisation, but without any negative connotations. Yeah, I like sexy female avatars and big bouncing boobs (if done tastefully), nothing wrong with that.
I get the sense that, well this is kinda hard to explain, but what you seem to be worried about is a message which the game company isn't actually sending. Does that make any sense? I mean, often when men and women talk, men tend to say something and mean it literally, while women tend to read more into it than was intended. Like the man says, "hey you look good today!", and the woman goes, "what, you think I look like a cow on other days?", and so on... that's why I'm focusing on the motive, because it seems that the over-sexualisation is just a side effect and not intended for sending sexist message or anything. I mean, I'm good at finding sinister implications, but assigning blame in absence of motive tends to do more harm than good, and lets the real culprits off the hook.
thats like saying: "Well playboy has a naked girls on it's cover every week, and they sell well, so logically it's the best way to sell game boxes too?"
You realise of course that it may in fact be true?
That's the entire point, the market, the promotional content and the in game content is NOT proportional to the markets current demographic because it excludes, belittles and demeans an entire section of the play base within the gaming community, women.
Promotional content doesn't really need to have anything to do with the demographic anyway; it's a marketing tool, not a statistics service. While there may be lots of female gamers, what you would actually need to establish is that having hunks or whatever in game covers can dramatically increase overall revenue. That's the only reason to have a marketing campaign in the first place after all. But hey, if it works, it works.
This I agree with you on. Personally, I think a girls (or a boys) oppinion of themselves should come from themselves, their parents, brothers, sisters, friends.
My view is that the main job of a parent is to present options and to help the child to understand the positive and negative sides of each, so that he can make an informed decision on his own; this way the child takes responsibility for his own actions, and is also warned against dangers which he would otherwise be unprepared for. It is said that if you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, but if you teach him to fish, you feed him for a lifetime; and I believe the same is true of children. Parents should not "protect" children from the world, they should prepare them for it, since they will not be there forever. And the only way to prepare someone for something is to let him come in contact with it, in a safe environment hopefully. Perhaps you had something similar in mind?
I enjoy looking at good looking guy just as much as the next girl but do I want to see one half naked on every game box I buy? Yeah... uh, not so much.
Yes, this one goes back to my earlier point - in order to focus their ad campaigns and box covers to women, they would first need to figure out what sorts of images make women buy as much as men do when they use images of scantily clad women.
It amazes me those with "chips on their shoulders" find a way to spew their load on all of as if we would swallow it so easily. Isn't portraying a man with broad shoulders and bulging muscles also sexist? This article missed the mark. You need to step back and look at the big picture of things. Don't look at the things that just hurt your feelings by uncovering an insecurity. This article is so wrong, its just so wrong.
finally a good article that's worth reading and isn't meant to stir up forum rants
but it is *sorta* possible for a man to reach the idealistic vision, all you have to do is work out to get the "chiseled abs"...the height thing is a different story. with the women, they can work out just to keep slim, but the idealistic vision isn't a muscular woman either....and again the height and breast size is impossible to change without plastic surgery. so women do have it a bit harder than men, but women are the biggest complainers because they are by nature. when do you ever hear a man say "man i just hate my body i feel so fat and it's all because of this unrealistic cartoon image"?
Currently Playing: Tabula Rasa Gaming History: EQ, EQ2, SWG, EVE, Anarchy Online, CoX, GW, SRO, Rakion, Ryzom, WoW, Rappelz, Shadowbane, 9Dragons, DAoC, Dungeon Runners, DnD Online, Space Cowboy, LotRO, Vanguard, Fury, Hellgate Wanting to Play: WAR, TCoS, Darkfall, Aion
Developers tend to go over the line of "decency", when creating female avatars. I think it could be toned down abit. The games that do this tend to be mostly korean. The Western games arent too bad.
Well there are plenty of fully armoured female warriors in Guild Wars. But then on the flip side - the elementalists wear skimpy silken belly dancer outfits - whats with that?
Which is why I am waiting for Hero's Journey where you will be able to customize your character to look as you want, and wear whatever clothes you want irrespective of class. So you could have a fully armoured wizard, or a knight wearing silk pyjamas if you want.
If people are this worried about what thair avatars look like or the "stereotypes" being promoted, it seems they have 2 options. One, find a game that suits your overly sensitive sensibilities... or, you can find a game like SWG (or at least before it was ruined by the NGE) that has a highly developed character creation mechanism. In that game, sliders allowed you to make youself ugly, fat, short, bald with no chin if you so chose. (male and female had the opportunity to be fugly)
You could create a good looking toon or a butt ugly toon, just depnded on what you wanted to do...
Altre Monserrat - MBH/MP Aaden Monserrat - Elder Jedi Starsider - <DFC> - Dark Force Clan
I will say what has already been said all too much. Men don't complain because we don't typically care about being overobsessed with our looks. Women are constantly jealous and worried about their appearance. Ask a girl what is truthfully one of the first things she does when she walks into a club, she looks to see who is better looking than she is. Its a fact of life women are much more self conscious than men.
So we are never going to hear the end of it. But guess what happens if a developer puts tons of money into character models so that they can have this overweight, flat chested, pimple infested woman that they want so much. It will be a waste of money because there will not be hardly one person who will play it. It is a fantasy game, who the heck dreams about being ugly? It's ludicrous people complain because they are too insecure time to step up to reality and stop being angry at the cards you were dealt.
News Editor Jon Wood pens this week's editorial. He looks at sexism in MMORPGs and whether or not it is limited to just the way developers create female avatars. Wood argues, men too are affected by it.
"The portrayal of women in video games is disgusting." That's a quotation I've heard many times, from both men and women alike. The truth is that they have a point. Most of the time, female avatars are portrayed with large breasts, small waistlines and finely toned bodies all around. Commonly, the blame for this is put on the fact that "sex sells" and game development is a male dominated industry. You can read more here.
Sexism is MMORPG's is completely absent. Sure the female avatars look beautiful, but then the male avatars all look like bodybuilders (many of them).
Bottom line: a female character has the same potential as a male character in nearly all MMORPG's. She can be the sword-wielding, steel-thewed warrior or the brilliant spellcaster. There usually are no gender limitations.
Someday the real world will catch up to MMORPG's in its treatment of women.
But having women in MMORPG's look voluptuous or beautiful is not sexist.
It's really clear when you look at the dwarven and gnomish males in WOW, for example, that the male avatars are not all ideals. But then, some of the female dwarves and gnomes aren't centerfolds either.
I think the greatest criticism in MMOs in terms of gender discrimination (and I say this as a 47 year old life-long wargamer of the female persuasion IRL) is more the homophobia of many gamers. I have a lot of friends who are queer, and I just cringe every time someone asks if my female toon represents my RL gender, because I assume I'm either going to get hit on, or someone's going sigh in relief that I'm not one of those gender-spoofing "fags."
On the other hand, when I play a male character (I'm sorry, sometimes it's just FUN to be a barbarian hunky tank -- remember, I'm watching that butt run all over Norrath or wherever...:) people always wonder why a female would want to roleplay a guy. Well, it's performance and role playing as much as anything. I spent a lot of my childhood in the Vermont woods -- I wanted to be Aragorn. Gender wasn't as important as skill. I admire heroes (literature and real life) of all genders (and orientations!).
There are a lot of sexist folks in MMOs, and I've never been sure if it reflects society or if there are more geeky guys who game and have no clue about healthy gender relationships...
Great article. I also enjoyed the variety offered in the SWG avatar creation system. I modelled my character after Leon from Bladerunner (i.e., mullet, receding chin, very overweight, and not pretty at all). I actually liked having hm as a character as he was unique to look at and recognizable from a distance. Pterry charcaters were pretty much ten a penny and kinda dull. I also had a jet black wookie called snowball or snowflake or something but had to ditch him as it became impossible to find myself in the dark.
I am a female gamer. And though in RL I do keep active and so am hardly fat .. I am fairly small chested and would say the word average .. applies to me. I like that in games I am able to be concidered pretty and have a body ..I have NO CHANCE of having in real life. I do try to stay on the fairly demure side of things in the way my characters dress .. and in fact in games like Star Wars galaxies I play a wookiee... but I always do play attractive avatars and enjoy the attention it brings. Yes some games go over the top with this .. Lineage and City of Heroes in the early days (not so much now with the body sliders) being two of the best examples .. but I think as a whole the ideal is changing and I dont at all feel insulted by the way females are visually portrayed. Now they way some guys roleplay them .. *growl*
hmm the point i'd like to bring up about women avatars looking "ideal" is that most women who play games it seems aren't ideal but are very far from it. Most i'd say are not good looking or near the very sexy. So the attention they get while in the game having a sexy avatar with guys being sweet b/c they know its a real life woman on the other side. This in itself gives these types of women the attention they want, something they aren't getting in real life. I know personally some women who are just unsexy, plain and simple, who play games and love the attention they get from the male players. its a double edge sword, just the feminist are vocal about how its discriminatory, not the ones who are enjoying the attention.
I never ever saw a game where men are dressed in clothes which are so small, that you can see their dicks.
But I always see games, where female chars are dressed in clothes where you can see their boobs and their ass. In some games you are able to look under the skirt.
People need to get over the fact that women with big breast and small waist are attractive. There is nothing sexist about it. Just like men that are tall, wide shoulders, nice pecs with chisled abs is attractive. There is nothing demeaning about having attractive models, male or female, in your game. Most people aim to be attractive. This is the way it should be.
Society will never find obesity attractive. There will always be a trait that people find attractive that others will strive for. Whether its big breast, a slim waist, or nice a hair-do and intelligence. The fact is society values physical attractiveness. Society also values intelligence, but that is harder to demonstrate when customizing your cartoon model.
This is after all a fantasy game. I would say 99% of the things in these games don't reflect reality.
Comments
The editorial makes a good point. But if you really think about it, I think there can be little debate that women are portrayed in a way that objectifies them much more frequeuntly than men in MMORPGs, and in video games in general. I think there can also be little debate that female gamers have to put up with a lot of crap that they shouldn't from immature male gamers when they go online. Why sexism is considered more acceptable than racism or other forms of bigotry I can't say, but in terms of how GMs and other moderaters rsepond to offenses and also in terms of how frequently you encounter it...it seems that it is. I suspect that things will naturally improve as female gamers become more common, but if you think that there isn't currently a problem you are deluding yourself.
I don't want to write this, and you don't want to read it. But now it's too late for both of us.
What did you think they have been doing since the beginning of time?
In the past, it was said that men rule the world, but women rule men. Women will always have more power in the sexual arena, and sex controls everything.
Interesting...
However, I like it when the game allow some place for the grotesteque as well. I understand that we can't play bad-looking avatars...but grotesteque are fun. Some games forget that grostesteque part completely...shouldn't be overlooked, nobody can even remotedly look as bad as these toons, and they are great fun to.
You know...there were females trolls in EQ, just as there was male-gnomes!
I think that they add a lot to the FUN factor of the game.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Unfortunately you have cause and effect completely in reverse. Game companies are, let me say again, commercial companies. They will do what ever it takes to sell more games, and the fact that they use female rather than male models in their ad campaigns proves exactly one thing: it sells better. That's the only signal they are really sending.
Well obviously enough, I don't agree with you. Yes game companies are indeed commercial companies and not once in my first post did I say it does not sell better? Which still does NOT change the fact of what they are doing, does it? Because it makes them more money, should it be ok, where do I as a female consumer of these products draw the line. Well the obvious answer is, wherever the hell I want, I'm a consumer and that's my right. It's also my right to point out exactly what it is, over sexualization of the female gender. Right or wrong, that's just what it is.
By the way, care to explain why all women's magazines have female models at the cover? All men's magazines have female models at the cover too - so logically, using female models is the best way to sell games to both sexes, no?
Absolutely, I'd be more then happy to explain why. Because they're fashion magazines, period! lol. I mean thats like saying: "Well playboy has a naked girls on it's cover every week, and they sell well, so logically it's the best way to sell game boxes too?"
No, no, no. That's the entire point, the market, the promotional content and the in game content is NOT proportional to the markets current demographic because it excludes, belittles and demeans an entire section of the play base within the gaming community, women. I'm not saying it's the end and be all, I'm not saying millions of women in the world care about all that much, I'm just saying it exists. It's in the gaming industry, it's on these boards and it's in the games themselves.
This isn't the fashion industry, this isn't the make-up or clothing industry, this is a commercial industry in gaming, for everyone!
Many of the views on this thread, while understandable, seem strange to me; for example, "protecting" young girls from "unrealistic ideals" seems counter-productive since those who conform will nevertheless be the ones with the most success in life, no matter how unrealistic the standards may seem. Yes, beauty ideals have changed from time to time, usually in response to changing health norms; but it's not like the opposite sex would just suddenly go, "gosh, we were wrong all along, lets go for fat women from now on".
This I agree with you on. Personally, I think a girls (or a boys) oppinion of themselves should come from themselves, their parents, brothers, sisters, friends. Yes magazines, TV, Movies and now video games set unrealistic ideals but personally I've never looked at Laura Croft and thought to myself: "Yeah, I'm supposed to look like that".
I think and hope most younger people are smarter then that but at the same time I think we need to be reasonable, I think we need to at least show an option, show some diversity. I enjoy looking at good looking guy just as much as the next girl but do I want to see one half naked on every game box I buy? Yeah... uh, not so much.
Important Information regarding Posting and You
I have to disagree with some of the other posts here. I personally am looking for a gritty hard world which has no room for this manga bikini crap. Nothing ruins emmersion more for me than this issue. Unfortunately I'm not in the majority.
but it is *sorta* possible for a man to reach the idealistic vision, all you have to do is work out to get the "chiseled abs"...the height thing is a different story. with the women, they can work out just to keep slim, but the idealistic vision isn't a muscular woman either....and again the height and breast size is impossible to change without plastic surgery. so women do have it a bit harder than men, but women are the biggest complainers because they are by nature. when do you ever hear a man say "man i just hate my body i feel so fat and it's all because of this unrealistic cartoon image"?
Currently Playing: Tabula Rasa
Gaming History: EQ, EQ2, SWG, EVE, Anarchy Online, CoX, GW, SRO, Rakion, Ryzom, WoW, Rappelz, Shadowbane, 9Dragons, DAoC, Dungeon Runners, DnD Online, Space Cowboy, LotRO, Vanguard, Fury, Hellgate
Wanting to Play: WAR, TCoS, Darkfall, Aion
Look you wanna play a fat small breasted woman, be my guest.
---
Well there are plenty of fully armoured female warriors in Guild Wars. But then on the flip side - the elementalists wear skimpy silken belly dancer outfits - whats with that?
Which is why I am waiting for Hero's Journey where you will be able to customize your character to look as you want, and wear whatever clothes you want irrespective of class. So you could have a fully armoured wizard, or a knight wearing silk pyjamas if you want.
If people are this worried about what thair avatars look like or the "stereotypes" being promoted, it seems they have 2 options. One, find a game that suits your overly sensitive sensibilities... or, you can find a game like SWG (or at least before it was ruined by the NGE) that has a highly developed character creation mechanism. In that game, sliders allowed you to make youself ugly, fat, short, bald with no chin if you so chose. (male and female had the opportunity to be fugly)
You could create a good looking toon or a butt ugly toon, just depnded on what you wanted to do...
Altre Monserrat - MBH/MP
Aaden Monserrat - Elder Jedi
Starsider - <DFC> - Dark Force Clan
I will say what has already been said all too much. Men don't complain because we don't typically care about being overobsessed with our looks. Women are constantly jealous and worried about their appearance. Ask a girl what is truthfully one of the first things she does when she walks into a club, she looks to see who is better looking than she is. Its a fact of life women are much more self conscious than men.
So we are never going to hear the end of it. But guess what happens if a developer puts tons of money into character models so that they can have this overweight, flat chested, pimple infested woman that they want so much. It will be a waste of money because there will not be hardly one person who will play it. It is a fantasy game, who the heck dreams about being ugly? It's ludicrous people complain because they are too insecure time to step up to reality and stop being angry at the cards you were dealt.
Sexism is MMORPG's is completely absent. Sure the female avatars look beautiful, but then the male avatars all look like bodybuilders (many of them).
Bottom line: a female character has the same potential as a male character in nearly all MMORPG's. She can be the sword-wielding, steel-thewed warrior or the brilliant spellcaster. There usually are no gender limitations.
Someday the real world will catch up to MMORPG's in its treatment of women.
But having women in MMORPG's look voluptuous or beautiful is not sexist.
I think the greatest criticism in MMOs in terms of gender discrimination (and I say this as a 47 year old life-long wargamer of the female persuasion IRL) is more the homophobia of many gamers. I have a lot of friends who are queer, and I just cringe every time someone asks if my female toon represents my RL gender, because I assume I'm either going to get hit on, or someone's going sigh in relief that I'm not one of those gender-spoofing "fags."
On the other hand, when I play a male character (I'm sorry, sometimes it's just FUN to be a barbarian hunky tank -- remember, I'm watching that butt run all over Norrath or wherever...:) people always wonder why a female would want to roleplay a guy. Well, it's performance and role playing as much as anything. I spent a lot of my childhood in the Vermont woods -- I wanted to be Aragorn. Gender wasn't as important as skill. I admire heroes (literature and real life) of all genders (and orientations!).
There are a lot of sexist folks in MMOs, and I've never been sure if it reflects society or if there are more geeky guys who game and have no clue about healthy gender relationships...
Shava
i think this just highlights the fact that MMOs need some more variation when it comes to character creation.
enabling characters to be customized with bellies, making them ultra skinny, short, ugly etc. adds all to realism.
the question then would be though - who would really go for that?
how many people would create the good looking male/female character rather then choose an ugly, fat one on purpose?
if your bored, visit my blog at:
http://craylon.wordpress.com/ dealing with the look of mmos with the nvidia 3d vision glasses
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Final Fantasy 7
I never ever saw a game where men are dressed in clothes which are so small, that you can see their dicks.
But I always see games, where female chars are dressed in clothes where you can see their boobs and their ass. In some games you are able to look under the skirt.
What else can it be than sexism?
Society will never find obesity attractive. There will always be a trait that people find attractive that others will strive for. Whether its big breast, a slim waist, or nice a hair-do and intelligence. The fact is society values physical attractiveness. Society also values intelligence, but that is harder to demonstrate when customizing your cartoon model.
This is after all a fantasy game. I would say 99% of the things in these games don't reflect reality.