Originally posted by thomas.hart The point brad is making is you will have fun playing the game solo. If you think having fun as solo means you will be better than ppl that work harder in raids/group then i think mmorpg are the wrong game for you.
See thats the big misconseption IMO, simply because 2 or more people are teamed up together, doesnt mean they are working harder. Unless ofcourse if the game is designed for this kind of thing, like this game might be from the sounds of it by having "combo" attacks and "responsive" options based on what your teammate is doing.
In SWG for example, where it wasent loot based, or atleast loot rewards where too few and far between that made crafted items the norm that people used, well in that game a soloer was just as good in PvP then a raider. PvE dint determine the outcome of PvP. In WoW though, the best PvPer is the best PvEer and I hated that. Some people will say NO, its skills above all and that was wrong. Cause when someone using a bow is shooting arrows at you doing triple the damage then your bow, you have no chance, skills or not.
What SWG did that was awsome, was this: They made "dungeons" where the loot form "bosses" was really awsome but dint gimp the crafted items. For example, the reward was a "new" set of armor but the stats on it was just as good as the best crafted or so it was suppose to be. This way, people that wanted to look different or wanted to do PvE and be rewared had the option to do the dungeon, and in the same time people like me that wanted to prepare for PvP, I simply went shopping, bought me a set of good crafted armor and I was good to go. So everyone was happy like that, PvEer, PvPer, soloer, raider, crafter....everyone.
Another thing I dont like is class based, but thats another topic, but in a nutshell, people will say a class system is the only way to balance classes and I say to you, no, go play Matrix Online and you will find something new. Matrix I believe started a good idea and I believe it can be very awsome and can really become the "next generation" if done well. This is how it would work:
You have "classes" but you start from scratch, so as you "grind" or quest you learn boxes or skills from your class, now the moment you decide "hey I dont like this class" you can unload that class and load a new class BUT you start from scratch that new class. Anytime you decide, hey I dont like that class you can unload it and load the previous class you had and continue from where you left off, so this way, people can experience all the classes with their character, people arent stuck with one class, and assuming you sit down and work hard on creating a balance, you can then split the classes in two or three and load and unload parts of one class while loading parts of another class making it seem like you are picking your own skills from the list of classes. Similarly to SWG. Matrix did that cause it fitted well with the concept of loading any skill into your memory, but any other game can do that by using differnet ideas like if your holding a one handed sword then you can only use Fencer skills, if you are holding a Two-handed Mace then you can only be a warrior or whatever, if you are holding a wand then you can only use spells.... anyways, thats just an idea based on the Matrix Online concept that I found originally effective and fun.
But back to my original point PvE shouldnt determine who isbetter at PvP.
the red would be freagin awesome, if done right. btw, i played Matrix, and that was me fav. part as well.
Originally posted by sebbonx Go give WAR a look, I think you will like what you see. BTW, the poster who replied is typical of Vanguard posters, they will drive most players from the game with their nasty attitude. Yea you will be missed! These same nasty people will whine when this game gets cancelled, and it will. None of the groupers or soloers believe a word of spin coming from Brad. <snip>
I agree: If the loot based game isn't enough to drive you off, the community just might be.
Originally posted by thomas.hart Soloer will never have the same chance at a 1v1 in a item based game. It's the simple fact that groups can work more effiectant than soloers. If you want to beat ppl in a 1v1 in this game you ahve to work harder. There will alway be ppl better than you.
I am more a grouper than a soloer myself. But an item centric game CAN give better rewards to soloers, in instanced or solo-focused challenges. Saying that no item centric game CAN be solo-oriented is a lie, it is easy to have challenges that can be undertaken alone only. However, Brad will never make a nice solo experience and this is something I can deal with, as anyway, I am a grouper.
The point is, Vanguard flaws doesn't means that every game has to be developped with the same flaws. Best groupers deserve to be groupers, best soloers deserve to be soloers. This is a rather basic and true logic, and if some devs can't get it, other will. Having a solo-friendly game and a group-friendly game isn't exclusive, no matter how hard Brad may try to convince you, it isn't. Happy soloers are easier to tame into becoming groupers. Unhappy soloers nearly never make a for good grouping experience, I dunno what is going in these devs mind...and I honestly don't care. They are dumb on this point, let's look at others. It is pointless to overkill a teams on it worst weakness, rather try to find the positive. Hopefully, they will get the raid-free servers.
Solo is, after grouping, the single most important point any MMO should focus on if they plan to be successfull. Soloers are the second biggest, if not the biggest, player-group. Trying to appeal to 20 minorities isn't going to be as successfull as appealing to both, soloers and groupers, which are the main...the strong player-base.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
I didn't bother reading much past here, because you have completely contradicted yourself, which bodes ill for the rest of your post. You're really picky? Uh huh. You've played half the games out there for many months each, some for years. And then you say player housing is an absolute "MUST" and yes, you did capitalize it. Yet you played WoW for 2 years, Motor City Online for 1 1/2 years, and a couple of others for a few months that have, let's see, NO player housing. Looks to me like you went fishing for reasons to dislike Vanguard and this was the best you could come up with, even though player housing very obviously has nothing to do with which games you are happy to play for years and years.
And no, I'm not a fanboy. I think this is my first post in the Vanguard forums and I've only been peripherally aware of the game. But the glaring contradiction in this post caught my eye.
kk, by your own admonition, you didnt read anymore of the thread. then you admitted that this is your first post in the Vanguard forum. and worst of all, you completely missed what the guy/girl was saying. he/she NOTICED that Vanguard had player housing, thats what drew him/her in. therefore, your entire arguement is based on a falsehood and is completely thrown out of the thread. great first post. learning point: read entire thread before posting. if you dont, you just make yourself look stupid. btw, your first thread in this forum, and you decide to make it a flame? why? wouldnt it make more sense for you to have made it a helpful or insightful post?
I didn't bother reading much past here, because you have completely contradicted yourself, which bodes ill for the rest of your post. You're really picky? Uh huh. You've played half the games out there for many months each, some for years. And then you say player housing is an absolute "MUST" and yes, you did capitalize it. Yet you played WoW for 2 years, Motor City Online for 1 1/2 years, and a couple of others for a few months that have, let's see, NO player housing. Looks to me like you went fishing for reasons to dislike Vanguard and this was the best you could come up with, even though player housing very obviously has nothing to do with which games you are happy to play for years and years.
And no, I'm not a fanboy. I think this is my first post in the Vanguard forums and I've only been peripherally aware of the game. But the glaring contradiction in this post caught my eye.
kk, by your own admonition, you didnt read anymore of the thread. then you admitted that this is your first post in the Vanguard forum. and worst of all, you completely missed what the guy/girl was saying. he/she NOTICED that Vanguard had player housing, thats what drew him/her in. therefore, your entire arguement is based on a falsehood and is completely thrown out of the thread. great first post. learning point: read entire thread before posting. if you dont, you just make yourself look stupid. btw, your first thread in this forum, and you decide to make it a flame? why? wouldnt it make more sense for you to have made it a helpful or insightful post? OK, for one, you don't know what admonition means. Look it up. You meant to say, "by your own admission". Secondly, as I quoted, he/she did not say that they noticed player housing and that's what drew them in. They said, and I quoted it, they MUST have player housing to play a game, yet they list many games that they played for years that don't have player housing. Third, it was not a flame. I pointed out the hypocrisy of their own post. I did not call them stupid or retarded or whatever.
Originally posted by Anofalye However, Brad will never make a nice solo experience...
All I can say is I think you will be eating those words when Vanguard releases.
Are the best soloers; soloers?
If the answer is no, he understand nothing about soloers. (MANY of my friends are soloers that I try to turn into groupers...and Brad's games aren't exactly helping me about this, they are hindering me...but that would be another topic)
Brad, and Sigil, have a multidisciplinary approach (Saga of Ryzom think that way to), where you have to do everything if you want to excell in anything. Although this is appealing to a few peoples and to the peoples who play the "rarest" activities (raiding in the current example), it is aggravating the majority. As a grouper I could dig into this mentality, as long as it is on a raid-free server, since the activities are all accessibles and I am willing to play them all, but again, you talk with a grouper, not with a soloer.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
I didn't bother reading much past here, because you have completely contradicted yourself, which bodes ill for the rest of your post. You're really picky? Uh huh. You've played half the games out there for many months each, some for years. And then you say player housing is an absolute "MUST" and yes, you did capitalize it. Yet you played WoW for 2 years, Motor City Online for 1 1/2 years, and a couple of others for a few months that have, let's see, NO player housing. Looks to me like you went fishing for reasons to dislike Vanguard and this was the best you could come up with, even though player housing very obviously has nothing to do with which games you are happy to play for years and years.
And no, I'm not a fanboy. I think this is my first post in the Vanguard forums and I've only been peripherally aware of the game. But the glaring contradiction in this post caught my eye.
kk, by your own admonition, you didnt read anymore of the thread. then you admitted that this is your first post in the Vanguard forum. and worst of all, you completely missed what the guy/girl was saying. he/she NOTICED that Vanguard had player housing, thats what drew him/her in. therefore, your entire arguement is based on a falsehood and is completely thrown out of the thread. great first post. learning point: read entire thread before posting. if you dont, you just make yourself look stupid. btw, your first thread in this forum, and you decide to make it a flame? why? wouldnt it make more sense for you to have made it a helpful or insightful post? OK, for one, you don't know what admonition means. Look it up. You meant to say, "by your own admission". Secondly, as I quoted, he/she did not say that they noticed player housing and that's what drew them in. They said, and I quoted it, they MUST have player housing to play a game, yet they list many games that they played for years that don't have player housing. Third, it was not a flame. I pointed out the hypocrisy of their own post. I did not call them stupid or retarded or whatever.
yes, sorry. youre right, i did mean "admission", not admonition. secondly, you quoted partof the post. leaving out several key facts. direct quote from OP:
So I had my hopes up for this game when I heard that player houses was available. <---see
and lastly, who put you in charge of pointing out the hypocrisies in a post? unasked for critizism is usually taken as a flame. ask anyone. and i know that youre going to ask me the same question, so ill answer you before you do. noone put me in charge of anything. i just dont like for people to treat others badly for no good reason.
Originally posted by PlanoMM yes, sorry. youre right, i did mean "admission", not admonition. secondly, you quoted partof the post. leaving out several key facts. direct quote from OP: So I had my hopes up for this game when I heard that player houses was available. <---see and lastly, who put you in charge of pointing out the hypocrisies in a post? unasked for critizism is usually taken as a flame. ask anyone. and i know that youre going to ask me the same question, so ill answer you before you do. noone put me in charge of anything. i just dont like for people to treat others badly for no good reason.
Jorev is kinda a flamer, but I think he understand many points on these aspects. I see him bringing contradiction from the devs team, which say exactly the opposite than what Brad was saying. You might want to send him a personnal message, he might know more on this, and not all may be negative. Housing and player-run economy ain't really my focus in these games...but it is certainly for him.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
different people with different playstyles have different opinions on what "solo friendly" really means. personnally, i solo about 70% of the time. in a raiding game. i have no problems with that. doesnt bother me at all that i dont have the uber raiding only gear. because i know that if i want it, all i gotta do is get it. i like options. raiding is one of them. soloing is another.
whether or not Vanguard is solo friendly is going to be based on personnal preferances no matter how they make the game. youre always going to have the people that think that its not solo friendly, and youre always going to have people that argue that it is. its going to be all up to you in the end. so.....why are we having this arguement again?
Originally posted by PlanoMM yes, sorry. youre right, i did mean "admission", not admonition. secondly, you quoted partof the post. leaving out several key facts. direct quote from OP: So I had my hopes up for this game when I heard that player houses was available. <---see and lastly, who put you in charge of pointing out the hypocrisies in a post? unasked for critizism is usually taken as a flame. ask anyone. and i know that youre going to ask me the same question, so ill answer you before you do. noone put me in charge of anything. i just dont like for people to treat others badly for no good reason.
Jorev is kinda a flamer, but I think he understand many points on these aspects. I see him bringing contradiction from the devs team, which say exactly the opposite than what Brad was saying. You might want to send him a personnal message, he might know more on this, and not all may be negative. whos Jorev? this reply is in response to elvigy.
Originally posted by PlanoMMwhos Jorev? this reply is in response to elvigy.
Jorev is another user.
Well, I suggest this, since your topic discuss about housing and player run economy...and I know Jorev dig a lot of stuff about these topics, he is kinda negative, but he might give you some info, or bump into your thread. Otherwise he might miss it and just do whatever he is doing.
I just think he might give you some *insight* or point of view, that IMO, would be "interesting" for you, no idea if you will like or dislike him, or think like him, but well, it is a player that dig info about these stuff, just like you.
I feel like a matching agency atm!
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Originally posted by PlanoMMwhos Jorev? this reply is in response to elvigy.
Jorev is another user.
Well, I suggest this, since your topic discuss about housing and player run economy...and I know Jorev dig a lot of stuff about these topics, he is kinda negative, but he might give you some info, or bump into your thread. Otherwise he might miss it and just do whatever he is doing.
I just think he might give you some *insight* or point of view, that IMO, would be "interesting" for you, no idea if you will like or dislike him, or think like him, but well, it is a player that dig info about these stuff, just like you.
I feel like a matching agency atm!
ah, ok, thank you. i was just kinda trying to figure out where the name Jorev came from is all, lol. np.
I didn't bother reading much past here, because you have completely contradicted yourself, which bodes ill for the rest of your post. You're really picky? Uh huh. You've played half the games out there for many months each, some for years. And then you say player housing is an absolute "MUST" and yes, you did capitalize it. Yet you played WoW for 2 years, Motor City Online for 1 1/2 years, and a couple of others for a few months that have, let's see, NO player housing. Looks to me like you went fishing for reasons to dislike Vanguard and this was the best you could come up with, even though player housing very obviously has nothing to do with which games you are happy to play for years and years.
And no, I'm not a fanboy. I think this is my first post in the Vanguard forums and I've only been peripherally aware of the game. But the glaring contradiction in this post caught my eye.
kk, by your own admonition, you didnt read anymore of the thread. then you admitted that this is your first post in the Vanguard forum. and worst of all, you completely missed what the guy/girl was saying. he/she NOTICED that Vanguard had player housing, thats what drew him/her in. therefore, your entire arguement is based on a falsehood and is completely thrown out of the thread. great first post. learning point: read entire thread before posting. if you dont, you just make yourself look stupid. btw, your first thread in this forum, and you decide to make it a flame? why? wouldnt it make more sense for you to have made it a helpful or insightful post? OK, for one, you don't know what admonition means. Look it up. You meant to say, "by your own admission". Secondly, as I quoted, he/she did not say that they noticed player housing and that's what drew them in. They said, and I quoted it, they MUST have player housing to play a game, yet they list many games that they played for years that don't have player housing. Third, it was not a flame. I pointed out the hypocrisy of their own post. I did not call them stupid or retarded or whatever.
yes, sorry. youre right, i did mean "admission", not admonition. secondly, you quoted partof the post. leaving out several key facts. direct quote from OP:
So I had my hopes up for this game when I heard that player houses was available. <---see
and lastly, who put you in charge of pointing out the hypocrisies in a post? unasked for critizism is usually taken as a flame. ask anyone. and i know that youre going to ask me the same question, so ill answer you before you do. noone put me in charge of anything. i just dont like for people to treat others badly for no good reason.
OK, I'll explain in simple terms. Read and follow the logic.
This was his very first post ever. It was a troll-ish post about the game Vanguard. Rather than just jump in and start trolling the Vanguard board, which would have been too obvious, it's clear that he/she had to have some reason for doing so that would be taken somewhat seriously. So the excuse that hey, this game has housing, which is an absolute MUST for me, so that's why I took a look at it. However, now that I've taken a look, I'm going to trash the entire game and the game's developer, Brad.
My point to the rest of this community, which I thought was pretty clear, was that this guy should not be taken seriously because he contradicts his own reasons for even looking into Vanguard right there in his very first paragraph. Player housing is clearly NOT the make or break issue for playing a game that he/she claims it is. So then one must ask oneself what is the real motivation for this post? Why is this guy trashing Vanguard? Clearly, looking deeper and seeing that this was his/her first post ever, there was some other motivation. I don't know what it was, and I don't care. You can argue with me and him all day long if you like, but my point stands. This guy (gal) is clearly making sh** up for some reason in order to make a lengthy, negative post about Vanguard. My point is only that there is no reason at all to take him/her seriously because of the self-contradiction.
As for putting anyone in charge, omg what are you, like 7 years old? This is a public forum. Whether it's my first post or my 10,000th, I'm free to respond where and when I want, within the rules.
OK, I'll explain in simple terms. Read and follow the logic.
This was his very first post ever. It was a troll-ish post about the game Vanguard. Rather than just jump in and start trolling the Vanguard board, which would have been too obvious, it's clear that he/she had to have some reason for doing so that would be taken somewhat seriously. So the excuse that hey, this game has housing, which is an absolute MUST for me, so that's why I took a look at it. However, now that I've taken a look, I'm going to trash the entire game and the game's developer, Brad.
My point to the rest of this community, which I thought was pretty clear, was that this guy should not be taken seriously because he contradicts his own reasons for even looking into Vanguard right there in his very first paragraph. Player housing is clearly NOT the make or break issue for playing a game that he/she claims it is. So then one must ask oneself what is the real motivation for this post? Why is this guy trashing Vanguard? Clearly, looking deeper and seeing that this was his/her first post ever, there was some other motivation. I don't know what it was, and I don't care. You can argue with me and him all day long if you like, but my point stands. This guy (gal) is clearly making sh** up for some reason in order to make a lengthy, negative post about Vanguard. My point is only that there is no reason at all to take him/her seriously because of the self-contradiction.
As for putting anyone in charge, omg what are you, like 7 years old? This is a public forum. Whether it's my first post or my 10,000th, I'm free to respond where and when I want, within the rules.
and you got that he/she was trolling from.........not even half a post? you do know that he/she posted several times in this very thread. and not once has he/she insulted the game, Brad, or anyone else for that matter. so im having trouble understanding your logic. and yes im 7 yrs old. Oo and likewise, sorry you dont like it.
and you got that he/she was trolling from.........not even half a post? you do know that he/she posted several times in this very thread. and not once has he/she insulted the game, Brad, or anyone else for that matter. so im having trouble understanding your logic. and yes im 7 yrs old. Oo and likewise, sorry you dont like it.
Yeah, I did get that he was starting a troll post from just the first paragraph or two. Maybe I'm just smart.
Besides, I believe my words were that it was "troll-ish". I'll grant you he did not use any insulting terms. In fact, the only person in this thread who has used insulting terminology was you, in calling another troll a dumbass.
And I didn't say I don't like this back and forth. I'm sitting at work bored out of my skull waiting for the 4 day holiday. This has been the most fun part of my day.
Housing is a really funney thing to ask for in a game. I mean, many times it doesn't fit the premise. It's not about laying around a house arranging furiture, it's about action and adventure. To try to help you out though WAR won't have housing, it'll has lateral advancement though more like SWG had. The game is about RvR though, instead of housing, you have capitials. It's not just YOUR home, it's your entire faction's home. It seems to be trying to get the iconicness of classes(By having things like Squig Hearders) and the diversity of skills. In WAR instances are called 'scenarios'. They're used for PvP so you can have an equal fight. To prevent the ques that plague WoW, NPCs will be used to balence Scenarios.
Another option might be TCoS. They have housing but at launch it's going to be more like a bank than a toontown style house a launch. It also has classes but your playstyle is depenedent on your skills. It uses concepts similar to Guild Wars but will jopefully haver better implimentation. Instances are only used when it makes sense. Most often they're used in 'Ansester Quests'. In AQs you are sent back in time to learn about the anchient world. Hopefully this will give you knowlege about the world is today. The eventual goal of AQ is to find more shards(the floating continents that the People of spell born live on) to conquer and populate.
Both WAR and TCoS are anti-raiding. Like I said TCoS has classes but your skills aren't locked in, your skill-deck is supposed to determen your playstyle. Also both games are anti-loot, pro-player skill and tactics.
Also, if it means anything, WAR and TCoS seem to have nicer communities rather then elititists.
PS: 'Trolling'!? Are you kidding me? You guy need to learn what trolling is. "It look like this game isn't going to live up to all my hopes :sigh:" isn't trolling, it's venting! Go over to WAR and see how much "This game is going to be WoW because they both have Orcs! LOL" bullshit that gets posted on our boards.
PS: 'Trolling'!? Are you kidding me? You guy need to learn what trolling is. "It look like this game isn't going to live up to all my hopes :sigh:" isn't trolling, it's venting! Go over to WAR and see how much "This game is going to be WoW because they both have Orcs! LOL" bullshit that gets posted on our boards.
exactly.
and since youre wrong about whether he/she was trolling.........youre smart? and calling a troll a dumbass is.....bad? thats what most people think of trolls. btw, i dont think of you as a troll, just think that you were kinda quick with the trigger is all.
and im glad you were entertained. thats what we are all here for after all. your entertainment. j/k, lol. no, i dont have a problem with this either. what i have a problem with is the true to life trolls that come in, start a flame war and leave with, "omg, ur so pwned, lolorz".
Dear friend elvigy, let me help you out a bit, when I said "player houses is a MUST" I wasent saying its a must for every MMO, I was saying it's a MUST for me for my next MMO. When I listed all the MMO's I played I wasent trying to prove that all the games I played had all the elements I really want for my NEXT MMO. I was just pointing out that I have played many MMO's that had many different elements and the ones I am looking forward for my NEXT MMO are the ones I mentioned in some earlier post.
There is no contradiction, there is no attempt to destroy Vanguard or Brad or Sigil or SOE or anyone.
Brad said in one of the stickies in this forum that, new people looking at Vanguard should go look at the FAQ's on the official site along with some other info regarding this game in other official sites before deciding whether to play or skip this game. And so I did. I took him up on his offer and I read. Then I came here to discuss my what I read about the game in a hope that someone would bring some new information to my attention that would perhaps attract me to this game.
So far I have found some nice information and some nice videos about this game that Im really liking. There are things though that Im finding not so much to my taste though and one of them is solo oriented game versus raid oriented game. And thus brings us to this discussion.
I hope this clarifies to you that I am not here to destroy or attack anyone unlike you who is telling people not to take me serious.
I hope you have a nice day at work, I personally play an online Web based game at work sometimes when I have a little time to waiste, Im not sure if Im a loud to mention it or not cause I dont know if that would constitute advertisment for the game or not, anyway, Im not trying to advertise but the game is called Torn City. You will find it fun for times at work when you are bored, or there are plainty of other Web based games that are perfect to play at work during brakes cause they only take like 2-5 minutes every few hours.
Originally posted by glim3mer I think elvigy is confused, that's all. Dear friend elvigy, let me help you out a bit, when I said "player houses is a MUST" I wasent saying its a must for every MMO, I was saying it's a MUST for me for my next MMO. When I listed all the MMO's I played I wasent trying to prove that all the games I played had all the elements I really want for my NEXT MMO. I was just pointing out that I have played many MMO's that had many different elements and the ones I am looking forward for my NEXT MMO are the ones I mentioned in some earlier post. There is no contradiction, there is no attempt to destroy Vanguard or Brad or Sigil or SOE or anyone. Brad said in one of the stickies in this forum that, new people looking at Vanguard should go look at the FAQ's on the official site along with some other info regarding this game in other official sites before deciding whether to play or skip this game. And so I did. I took him up on his offer and I read. Then I came here to discuss my what I read about the game in a hope that someone would bring some new information to my attention that would perhaps attract me to this game. So far I have found some nice information and some nice videos about this game that Im really liking. There are things though that Im finding not so much to my taste though and one of them is solo oriented game versus raid oriented game. And thus brings us to this discussion. I hope this clarifies to you that I am not here to destroy or attack anyone unlike you who is telling people not to take me serious. I hope you have a nice day at work, I personally play an online Web based game at work sometimes when I have a little time to waiste, Im not sure if Im a loud to mention it or not cause I dont know if that would constitute advertisment for the game or not, anyway, Im not trying to advertise but the game is called Torn City. You will find it fun for times at work when you are bored, or there are plainty of other Web based games that are perfect to play at work during brakes cause they only take like 2-5 minutes every few hours.
Sounds good to me.
And to clarify, again, I did not try to say you were trolling. I pointed out the selfl-contradictions in your post and then, when I "got into it" with Plano, I said your post was troll-ish (since you did bash pretty much every feature of the game.) I then used trolling as shorthand terminology in referring to it. Not sure what a better term would have been-"self-contradictory and overly negative" is a bit much to continue typing, lol.
Anyway, I'm out now. Time to go home, happy Thanksgiving to those who celebrate it!
As an end game FFXI player I have seen the worst case of forced grouping. But as a well rounded gamer, someone that played WoW to end game and has also played EQ2... I am not interested in games LIKE WoW.
WoW has a very poor community because of its solo nature, because it allows n00bs to pass through the game untested and unchecked. The point is, Vanguard needs to encourage grouping but not require it in order for me to progress towards something when my homies arent online. I believe support classes should not exist in these games, that you should not need a certain class to ungimp an archtype (as i have seen in many mmos). But I do not worry about that because of what brad did in past mmos, even games like EQOA got the balance right.
Bottom line, i dont want to have to wait 2 hours for a red mage to logon. Crafting for me, is going to me a major piece of the pie. For me, i am very interested in the world building aspects. if they make good on the crafting sphere, they got me for a long time... well they got me because i cant deal with FFXI for much more and all the "other" mmos flat out suck.
Originally posted by wyzwun As an end game FFXI player I have seen the worst case of forced grouping. But as a well rounded gamer, someone that played WoW to end game and has also played EQ2... I am not interested in games LIKE WoW. WoW has a very poor community because of its solo nature, because it allows n00bs to pass through the game untested and unchecked. The point is, Vanguard needs to encourage grouping but not require it in order for me to progress towards something when my homies arent online. I believe support classes should not exist in these games, that you should not need a certain class to ungimp an archtype (as i have seen in many mmos). But I do not worry about that because of what brad did in past mmos, even games like EQOA got the balance right. Bottom line, i dont want to have to wait 2 hours for a red mage to logon. Crafting for me, is going to me a major piece of the pie. For me, i am very interested in the world building aspects. if they make good on the crafting sphere, they got me for a long time... well they got me because i cant deal with FFXI for much more and all the "other" mmos flat out suck.
If you are truly looking for a game that is more solo oriented, than MMORPGs arent for you. There are plenty of single player RPGs out there-try Elder Scrolls 3 & 4 for instance. What differentiates these from the MMORPGs is the mass world of people in game.
So what you are saying is you want a single player RPG in a world of other people also going on solo? Doesn't make much sense. If you are saying that soloing should be just as accomadating as grouping, well again, thats not what an MMORPG is supposed to be....its an MMO.
Originally posted by tomfred81 If you are truly looking for a game that is more solo oriented, than MMORPGs arent for you. There are plenty of single player RPGs out there-try Elder Scrolls 3 & 4 for instance. What differentiates these from the MMORPGs is the mass world of people in game.
So what you are saying is you want a single player RPG in a world of other people also going on solo? Doesn't make much sense. If you are saying that soloing should be just as accomadating as grouping, well again, thats not what an MMORPG is supposed to be....its an MMO.
DDO found out the hard way, that solo content is a neccesity. I solo 99% of the time in mmos. I like the evolving world of an mmo that single player games don't have. It is just the way I play and I have fun doing it. I find most single player games lacking now.
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See thats the big misconseption IMO, simply because 2 or more people are teamed up together, doesnt mean they are working harder. Unless ofcourse if the game is designed for this kind of thing, like this game might be from the sounds of it by having "combo" attacks and "responsive" options based on what your teammate is doing.
In SWG for example, where it wasent loot based, or atleast loot rewards where too few and far between that made crafted items the norm that people used, well in that game a soloer was just as good in PvP then a raider. PvE dint determine the outcome of PvP. In WoW though, the best PvPer is the best PvEer and I hated that. Some people will say NO, its skills above all and that was wrong. Cause when someone using a bow is shooting arrows at you doing triple the damage then your bow, you have no chance, skills or not.
What SWG did that was awsome, was this: They made "dungeons" where the loot form "bosses" was really awsome but dint gimp the crafted items. For example, the reward was a "new" set of armor but the stats on it was just as good as the best crafted or so it was suppose to be. This way, people that wanted to look different or wanted to do PvE and be rewared had the option to do the dungeon, and in the same time people like me that wanted to prepare for PvP, I simply went shopping, bought me a set of good crafted armor and I was good to go. So everyone was happy like that, PvEer, PvPer, soloer, raider, crafter....everyone.
Another thing I dont like is class based, but thats another topic, but in a nutshell, people will say a class system is the only way to balance classes and I say to you, no, go play Matrix Online and you will find something new. Matrix I believe started a good idea and I believe it can be very awsome and can really become the "next generation" if done well. This is how it would work:
You have "classes" but you start from scratch, so as you "grind" or quest you learn boxes or skills from your class, now the moment you decide "hey I dont like this class" you can unload that class and load a new class BUT you start from scratch that new class. Anytime you decide, hey I dont like that class you can unload it and load the previous class you had and continue from where you left off, so this way, people can experience all the classes with their character, people arent stuck with one class, and assuming you sit down and work hard on creating a balance, you can then split the classes in two or three and load and unload parts of one class while loading parts of another class making it seem like you are picking your own skills from the list of classes. Similarly to SWG. Matrix did that cause it fitted well with the concept of loading any skill into your memory, but any other game can do that by using differnet ideas like if your holding a one handed sword then you can only use Fencer skills, if you are holding a Two-handed Mace then you can only be a warrior or whatever, if you are holding a wand then you can only use spells.... anyways, thats just an idea based on the Matrix Online concept that I found originally effective and fun.
But back to my original point PvE shouldnt determine who is better at PvP.
the red would be freagin awesome, if done right. btw, i played Matrix, and that was me fav. part as well.
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I agree: If the loot based game isn't enough to drive you off, the community just might be.
Interest in game failing....failing...
I am more a grouper than a soloer myself. But an item centric game CAN give better rewards to soloers, in instanced or solo-focused challenges. Saying that no item centric game CAN be solo-oriented is a lie, it is easy to have challenges that can be undertaken alone only. However, Brad will never make a nice solo experience and this is something I can deal with, as anyway, I am a grouper.
The point is, Vanguard flaws doesn't means that every game has to be developped with the same flaws. Best groupers deserve to be groupers, best soloers deserve to be soloers. This is a rather basic and true logic, and if some devs can't get it, other will. Having a solo-friendly game and a group-friendly game isn't exclusive, no matter how hard Brad may try to convince you, it isn't. Happy soloers are easier to tame into becoming groupers. Unhappy soloers nearly never make a for good grouping experience, I dunno what is going in these devs mind...and I honestly don't care. They are dumb on this point, let's look at others. It is pointless to overkill a teams on it worst weakness, rather try to find the positive. Hopefully, they will get the raid-free servers.
Solo is, after grouping, the single most important point any MMO should focus on if they plan to be successfull. Soloers are the second biggest, if not the biggest, player-group. Trying to appeal to 20 minorities isn't going to be as successfull as appealing to both, soloers and groupers, which are the main...the strong player-base.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
I didn't bother reading much past here, because you have completely contradicted yourself, which bodes ill for the rest of your post. You're really picky? Uh huh. You've played half the games out there for many months each, some for years. And then you say player housing is an absolute "MUST" and yes, you did capitalize it. Yet you played WoW for 2 years, Motor City Online for 1 1/2 years, and a couple of others for a few months that have, let's see, NO player housing. Looks to me like you went fishing for reasons to dislike Vanguard and this was the best you could come up with, even though player housing very obviously has nothing to do with which games you are happy to play for years and years.
And no, I'm not a fanboy. I think this is my first post in the Vanguard forums and I've only been peripherally aware of the game. But the glaring contradiction in this post caught my eye.
kk, by your own admonition, you didnt read anymore of the thread. then you admitted that this is your first post in the Vanguard forum. and worst of all, you completely missed what the guy/girl was saying. he/she NOTICED that Vanguard had player housing, thats what drew him/her in. therefore, your entire arguement is based on a falsehood and is completely thrown out of the thread. great first post. learning point: read entire thread before posting. if you dont, you just make yourself look stupid. btw, your first thread in this forum, and you decide to make it a flame? why? wouldnt it make more sense for you to have made it a helpful or insightful post?
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I didn't bother reading much past here, because you have completely contradicted yourself, which bodes ill for the rest of your post. You're really picky? Uh huh. You've played half the games out there for many months each, some for years. And then you say player housing is an absolute "MUST" and yes, you did capitalize it. Yet you played WoW for 2 years, Motor City Online for 1 1/2 years, and a couple of others for a few months that have, let's see, NO player housing. Looks to me like you went fishing for reasons to dislike Vanguard and this was the best you could come up with, even though player housing very obviously has nothing to do with which games you are happy to play for years and years.
And no, I'm not a fanboy. I think this is my first post in the Vanguard forums and I've only been peripherally aware of the game. But the glaring contradiction in this post caught my eye.
kk, by your own admonition, you didnt read anymore of the thread. then you admitted that this is your first post in the Vanguard forum. and worst of all, you completely missed what the guy/girl was saying. he/she NOTICED that Vanguard had player housing, thats what drew him/her in. therefore, your entire arguement is based on a falsehood and is completely thrown out of the thread. great first post. learning point: read entire thread before posting. if you dont, you just make yourself look stupid. btw, your first thread in this forum, and you decide to make it a flame? why? wouldnt it make more sense for you to have made it a helpful or insightful post?
OK, for one, you don't know what admonition means. Look it up. You meant to say, "by your own admission". Secondly, as I quoted, he/she did not say that they noticed player housing and that's what drew them in. They said, and I quoted it, they MUST have player housing to play a game, yet they list many games that they played for years that don't have player housing. Third, it was not a flame. I pointed out the hypocrisy of their own post. I did not call them stupid or retarded or whatever.
Are the best soloers; soloers?
If the answer is no, he understand nothing about soloers. (MANY of my friends are soloers that I try to turn into groupers...and Brad's games aren't exactly helping me about this, they are hindering me...but that would be another topic)
Brad, and Sigil, have a multidisciplinary approach (Saga of Ryzom think that way to), where you have to do everything if you want to excell in anything. Although this is appealing to a few peoples and to the peoples who play the "rarest" activities (raiding in the current example), it is aggravating the majority. As a grouper I could dig into this mentality, as long as it is on a raid-free server, since the activities are all accessibles and I am willing to play them all, but again, you talk with a grouper, not with a soloer.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Indeed, It seems to be to much EverQuest about Vanguard.
rly, and im not the only one.
Starwars Galaxies, An Empier Diveded, That's what it says on my box anyway.
I didn't bother reading much past here, because you have completely contradicted yourself, which bodes ill for the rest of your post. You're really picky? Uh huh. You've played half the games out there for many months each, some for years. And then you say player housing is an absolute "MUST" and yes, you did capitalize it. Yet you played WoW for 2 years, Motor City Online for 1 1/2 years, and a couple of others for a few months that have, let's see, NO player housing. Looks to me like you went fishing for reasons to dislike Vanguard and this was the best you could come up with, even though player housing very obviously has nothing to do with which games you are happy to play for years and years.
And no, I'm not a fanboy. I think this is my first post in the Vanguard forums and I've only been peripherally aware of the game. But the glaring contradiction in this post caught my eye.
kk, by your own admonition, you didnt read anymore of the thread. then you admitted that this is your first post in the Vanguard forum. and worst of all, you completely missed what the guy/girl was saying. he/she NOTICED that Vanguard had player housing, thats what drew him/her in. therefore, your entire arguement is based on a falsehood and is completely thrown out of the thread. great first post. learning point: read entire thread before posting. if you dont, you just make yourself look stupid. btw, your first thread in this forum, and you decide to make it a flame? why? wouldnt it make more sense for you to have made it a helpful or insightful post?
OK, for one, you don't know what admonition means. Look it up. You meant to say, "by your own admission". Secondly, as I quoted, he/she did not say that they noticed player housing and that's what drew them in. They said, and I quoted it, they MUST have player housing to play a game, yet they list many games that they played for years that don't have player housing. Third, it was not a flame. I pointed out the hypocrisy of their own post. I did not call them stupid or retarded or whatever.
yes, sorry. youre right, i did mean "admission", not admonition. secondly, you quoted part of the post. leaving out several key facts. direct quote from OP:
So I had my hopes up for this game when I heard that player houses was available. <---see
and lastly, who put you in charge of pointing out the hypocrisies in a post? unasked for critizism is usually taken as a flame. ask anyone. and i know that youre going to ask me the same question, so ill answer you before you do. noone put me in charge of anything. i just dont like for people to treat others badly for no good reason.
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- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
different people with different playstyles have different opinions on what "solo friendly" really means. personnally, i solo about 70% of the time. in a raiding game. i have no problems with that. doesnt bother me at all that i dont have the uber raiding only gear. because i know that if i want it, all i gotta do is get it. i like options. raiding is one of them. soloing is another.
whether or not Vanguard is solo friendly is going to be based on personnal preferances no matter how they make the game. youre always going to have the people that think that its not solo friendly, and youre always going to have people that argue that it is. its going to be all up to you in the end. so.....why are we having this arguement again?
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whos Jorev? this reply is in response to elvigy.
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Jorev is another user.
Well, I suggest this, since your topic discuss about housing and player run economy...and I know Jorev dig a lot of stuff about these topics, he is kinda negative, but he might give you some info, or bump into your thread. Otherwise he might miss it and just do whatever he is doing.
I just think he might give you some *insight* or point of view, that IMO, would be "interesting" for you, no idea if you will like or dislike him, or think like him, but well, it is a player that dig info about these stuff, just like you.
I feel like a matching agency atm!
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Jorev is another user.
Well, I suggest this, since your topic discuss about housing and player run economy...and I know Jorev dig a lot of stuff about these topics, he is kinda negative, but he might give you some info, or bump into your thread. Otherwise he might miss it and just do whatever he is doing.
I just think he might give you some *insight* or point of view, that IMO, would be "interesting" for you, no idea if you will like or dislike him, or think like him, but well, it is a player that dig info about these stuff, just like you.
I feel like a matching agency atm!
ah, ok, thank you. i was just kinda trying to figure out where the name Jorev came from is all, lol. np.
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I didn't bother reading much past here, because you have completely contradicted yourself, which bodes ill for the rest of your post. You're really picky? Uh huh. You've played half the games out there for many months each, some for years. And then you say player housing is an absolute "MUST" and yes, you did capitalize it. Yet you played WoW for 2 years, Motor City Online for 1 1/2 years, and a couple of others for a few months that have, let's see, NO player housing. Looks to me like you went fishing for reasons to dislike Vanguard and this was the best you could come up with, even though player housing very obviously has nothing to do with which games you are happy to play for years and years.
And no, I'm not a fanboy. I think this is my first post in the Vanguard forums and I've only been peripherally aware of the game. But the glaring contradiction in this post caught my eye.
kk, by your own admonition, you didnt read anymore of the thread. then you admitted that this is your first post in the Vanguard forum. and worst of all, you completely missed what the guy/girl was saying. he/she NOTICED that Vanguard had player housing, thats what drew him/her in. therefore, your entire arguement is based on a falsehood and is completely thrown out of the thread. great first post. learning point: read entire thread before posting. if you dont, you just make yourself look stupid. btw, your first thread in this forum, and you decide to make it a flame? why? wouldnt it make more sense for you to have made it a helpful or insightful post?
OK, for one, you don't know what admonition means. Look it up. You meant to say, "by your own admission". Secondly, as I quoted, he/she did not say that they noticed player housing and that's what drew them in. They said, and I quoted it, they MUST have player housing to play a game, yet they list many games that they played for years that don't have player housing. Third, it was not a flame. I pointed out the hypocrisy of their own post. I did not call them stupid or retarded or whatever.
yes, sorry. youre right, i did mean "admission", not admonition. secondly, you quoted part of the post. leaving out several key facts. direct quote from OP:
So I had my hopes up for this game when I heard that player houses was available. <---see
and lastly, who put you in charge of pointing out the hypocrisies in a post? unasked for critizism is usually taken as a flame. ask anyone. and i know that youre going to ask me the same question, so ill answer you before you do. noone put me in charge of anything. i just dont like for people to treat others badly for no good reason.
OK, I'll explain in simple terms. Read and follow the logic.
This was his very first post ever. It was a troll-ish post about the game Vanguard. Rather than just jump in and start trolling the Vanguard board, which would have been too obvious, it's clear that he/she had to have some reason for doing so that would be taken somewhat seriously. So the excuse that hey, this game has housing, which is an absolute MUST for me, so that's why I took a look at it. However, now that I've taken a look, I'm going to trash the entire game and the game's developer, Brad.
My point to the rest of this community, which I thought was pretty clear, was that this guy should not be taken seriously because he contradicts his own reasons for even looking into Vanguard right there in his very first paragraph. Player housing is clearly NOT the make or break issue for playing a game that he/she claims it is. So then one must ask oneself what is the real motivation for this post? Why is this guy trashing Vanguard? Clearly, looking deeper and seeing that this was his/her first post ever, there was some other motivation. I don't know what it was, and I don't care. You can argue with me and him all day long if you like, but my point stands. This guy (gal) is clearly making sh** up for some reason in order to make a lengthy, negative post about Vanguard. My point is only that there is no reason at all to take him/her seriously because of the self-contradiction.
As for putting anyone in charge, omg what are you, like 7 years old? This is a public forum. Whether it's my first post or my 10,000th, I'm free to respond where and when I want, within the rules.
OK, I'll explain in simple terms. Read and follow the logic.
This was his very first post ever. It was a troll-ish post about the game Vanguard. Rather than just jump in and start trolling the Vanguard board, which would have been too obvious, it's clear that he/she had to have some reason for doing so that would be taken somewhat seriously. So the excuse that hey, this game has housing, which is an absolute MUST for me, so that's why I took a look at it. However, now that I've taken a look, I'm going to trash the entire game and the game's developer, Brad.
My point to the rest of this community, which I thought was pretty clear, was that this guy should not be taken seriously because he contradicts his own reasons for even looking into Vanguard right there in his very first paragraph. Player housing is clearly NOT the make or break issue for playing a game that he/she claims it is. So then one must ask oneself what is the real motivation for this post? Why is this guy trashing Vanguard? Clearly, looking deeper and seeing that this was his/her first post ever, there was some other motivation. I don't know what it was, and I don't care. You can argue with me and him all day long if you like, but my point stands. This guy (gal) is clearly making sh** up for some reason in order to make a lengthy, negative post about Vanguard. My point is only that there is no reason at all to take him/her seriously because of the self-contradiction.
As for putting anyone in charge, omg what are you, like 7 years old? This is a public forum. Whether it's my first post or my 10,000th, I'm free to respond where and when I want, within the rules.
and you got that he/she was trolling from.........not even half a post? you do know that he/she posted several times in this very thread. and not once has he/she insulted the game, Brad, or anyone else for that matter. so im having trouble understanding your logic. and yes im 7 yrs old.
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Yeah, I did get that he was starting a troll post from just the first paragraph or two. Maybe I'm just smart.
Besides, I believe my words were that it was "troll-ish". I'll grant you he did not use any insulting terms. In fact, the only person in this thread who has used insulting terminology was you, in calling another troll a dumbass.
And I didn't say I don't like this back and forth. I'm sitting at work bored out of my skull waiting for the 4 day holiday. This has been the most fun part of my day.
Housing is a really funney thing to ask for in a game. I mean, many times it doesn't fit the premise. It's not about laying around a house arranging furiture, it's about action and adventure. To try to help you out though WAR won't have housing, it'll has lateral advancement though more like SWG had. The game is about RvR though, instead of housing, you have capitials. It's not just YOUR home, it's your entire faction's home. It seems to be trying to get the iconicness of classes(By having things like Squig Hearders) and the diversity of skills. In WAR instances are called 'scenarios'. They're used for PvP so you can have an equal fight. To prevent the ques that plague WoW, NPCs will be used to balence Scenarios.
Another option might be TCoS. They have housing but at launch it's going to be more like a bank than a toontown style house a launch. It also has classes but your playstyle is depenedent on your skills. It uses concepts similar to Guild Wars but will jopefully haver better implimentation. Instances are only used when it makes sense. Most often they're used in 'Ansester Quests'. In AQs you are sent back in time to learn about the anchient world. Hopefully this will give you knowlege about the world is today. The eventual goal of AQ is to find more shards(the floating continents that the People of spell born live on) to conquer and populate.
Both WAR and TCoS are anti-raiding. Like I said TCoS has classes but your skills aren't locked in, your skill-deck is supposed to determen your playstyle. Also both games are anti-loot, pro-player skill and tactics.
Also, if it means anything, WAR and TCoS seem to have nicer communities rather then elititists.
PS: 'Trolling'!? Are you kidding me? You guy need to learn what trolling is. "It look like this game isn't going to live up to all my hopes :sigh:" isn't trolling, it's venting! Go over to WAR and see how much "This game is going to be WoW because they both have Orcs! LOL" bullshit that gets posted on our boards.
PS: 'Trolling'!? Are you kidding me? You guy need to learn what trolling is. "It look like this game isn't going to live up to all my hopes :sigh:" isn't trolling, it's venting! Go over to WAR and see how much "This game is going to be WoW because they both have Orcs! LOL" bullshit that gets posted on our boards.
exactly.
and since youre wrong about whether he/she was trolling.........youre smart? and calling a troll a dumbass is.....bad? thats what most people think of trolls. btw, i dont think of you as a troll, just think that you were kinda quick with the trigger is all.
and im glad you were entertained. thats what we are all here for after all. your entertainment. j/k, lol. no, i dont have a problem with this either. what i have a problem with is the true to life trolls that come in, start a flame war and leave with, "omg, ur so pwned, lolorz".
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I think elvigy is confused, that's all.
Dear friend elvigy, let me help you out a bit, when I said "player houses is a MUST" I wasent saying its a must for every MMO, I was saying it's a MUST for me for my next MMO. When I listed all the MMO's I played I wasent trying to prove that all the games I played had all the elements I really want for my NEXT MMO. I was just pointing out that I have played many MMO's that had many different elements and the ones I am looking forward for my NEXT MMO are the ones I mentioned in some earlier post.
There is no contradiction, there is no attempt to destroy Vanguard or Brad or Sigil or SOE or anyone.
Brad said in one of the stickies in this forum that, new people looking at Vanguard should go look at the FAQ's on the official site along with some other info regarding this game in other official sites before deciding whether to play or skip this game. And so I did. I took him up on his offer and I read. Then I came here to discuss my what I read about the game in a hope that someone would bring some new information to my attention that would perhaps attract me to this game.
So far I have found some nice information and some nice videos about this game that Im really liking. There are things though that Im finding not so much to my taste though and one of them is solo oriented game versus raid oriented game. And thus brings us to this discussion.
I hope this clarifies to you that I am not here to destroy or attack anyone unlike you who is telling people not to take me serious.
I hope you have a nice day at work, I personally play an online Web based game at work sometimes when I have a little time to waiste, Im not sure if Im a loud to mention it or not cause I dont know if that would constitute advertisment for the game or not, anyway, Im not trying to advertise but the game is called Torn City. You will find it fun for times at work when you are bored, or there are plainty of other Web based games that are perfect to play at work during brakes cause they only take like 2-5 minutes every few hours.
Sounds good to me.
And to clarify, again, I did not try to say you were trolling. I pointed out the selfl-contradictions in your post and then, when I "got into it" with Plano, I said your post was troll-ish (since you did bash pretty much every feature of the game.) I then used trolling as shorthand terminology in referring to it. Not sure what a better term would have been-"self-contradictory and overly negative" is a bit much to continue typing, lol.
Anyway, I'm out now. Time to go home, happy Thanksgiving to those who celebrate it!
As an end game FFXI player I have seen the worst case of forced grouping. But as a well rounded gamer, someone that played WoW to end game and has also played EQ2... I am not interested in games LIKE WoW.
WoW has a very poor community because of its solo nature, because it allows n00bs to pass through the game untested and unchecked. The point is, Vanguard needs to encourage grouping but not require it in order for me to progress towards something when my homies arent online. I believe support classes should not exist in these games, that you should not need a certain class to ungimp an archtype (as i have seen in many mmos). But I do not worry about that because of what brad did in past mmos, even games like EQOA got the balance right.
Bottom line, i dont want to have to wait 2 hours for a red mage to logon. Crafting for me, is going to me a major piece of the pie. For me, i am very interested in the world building aspects. if they make good on the crafting sphere, they got me for a long time... well they got me because i cant deal with FFXI for much more and all the "other" mmos flat out suck.
Rites of the Four Horsemen
http://www.rotfh.com
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So what you are saying is you want a single player RPG in a world of other people also going on solo? Doesn't make much sense. If you are saying that soloing should be just as accomadating as grouping, well again, thats not what an MMORPG is supposed to be....its an MMO.