As for the claim that five years ago that 80GB drives weren't average insomuch being below average is completely untrue due to the fact that the average HDD in 2003 for a out of the box PC was about 40 GB per drive [that's for the $600 to $1200 brands of the day]. So, please stop exaggerating the OP's problem.
What I will say is that the game is huge, but not abnormally huge for what it does. In fact, I believe my copy of UT2004 is literally 6.4gigs in size, and that is without the mod files and my own personal player model [which kicks it up to about 7 gigs]. And I have about 160GB of space and I still wouldn't feel that much of a pinch on this game since I keep a tidy file system. If you're running out of space, please try any of the tools in the trial copies of any of your favorite utility suites, which can find all the bloated temp files.
But on a side note, HDDs are at rock bottom prices right now and it's a prime time to get them, if you have an older system [ATA family] before they dry up. If you got a newer HDD interface, the prices are still below average for the market, so soak up what you can, storage is cheap, your pulled out hair because of frustration isn't.
*clears his throat and begins to speak in an elderly ..scratchy voice* ..why.. In my time each year a new ground breaking game came out we would have to upgrade our hardware. soon, games became bigger and hard drives came out. Yay for hard drives and no more swapping floppy drves! You needed to upgrade hard drives what seemed at the release of every major game. When that wasnt enough, games started coming out on CD and most games where larger than the actual hard drive itself. I remember how pissed my mom would get every time I would buy a new game and it wouldnt load on to the hard drive. so be glad you dont live back when the Home PC was being pioneered and upgrading hardware was very common. It wasnt too long ago when upgrading video boards alone was standard practice just to be able to play or load the game. Now we just do it for the most part, for better FPS this cost $2500 bux when I was 16 8MHz proc
256 KB RAM
one 5 1/4" floppy drives
NO hard drive
4 color CGA graphics
so hey..screw you and you 23 gig beta :P
Actually, back in those days developers were professional and artistic. They were true professionals compared to some of the hacks that call themselves programmers today. Back in those days developers squeezed every ounce of power out of currently available machines and optimized the hell out of their code. Not today, because they and the hardware companie know that there are suckers out there that are dumb enough to go out and buy a $500.00 graphics card every year while playing a game with the exact same gameplay that was available a decade ago.
Lol at most of you guys with your "its big because of more detailed animations and graphics etc etc etc". I really can not wait for the NDA to be lifted and for all you guys to get into beta and come here telling your stories of the *cough* game.
i admit it is alot of hd space but if its free whats the prob, u can just delete it again if you dont like it, the point is, if you have anything bigger than a 40GB drive which lets face it most people do, what else are you going have on it that takes up alot of room?
I think that in many beta releases game developers put many more things in the code to ensure that if something goes wrong they will be able to easily track the problem and fix it. But if even that happens i am amazed of how big is the installation of Vanguard since the biggest installation of a modern MMO requires mostly about 8-9 giga of disk space. I think it was Eq2 since most of the npcs were really talking.
I don't care much though if the game requires a "lot" of hard disk space. I have just a 80 giga HD and whenever i really want to install something new i find a lot of crap i don't use
I wish that size matters in computer games so vanguard will be the next game i will play.
*clears his throat and begins to speak in an elderly ..scratchy voice* ..why.. In my time each year a new ground breaking game came out we would have to upgrade our hardware. soon, games became bigger and hard drives came out. Yay for hard drives and no more swapping floppy drves! You needed to upgrade hard drives what seemed at the release of every major game. When that wasnt enough, games started coming out on CD and most games where larger than the actual hard drive itself. I remember how pissed my mom would get every time I would buy a new game and it wouldnt load on to the hard drive. so be glad you dont live back when the Home PC was being pioneered and upgrading hardware was very common. It wasnt too long ago when upgrading video boards alone was standard practice just to be able to play or load the game. Now we just do it for the most part, for better FPS this cost $2500 bux when I was 16 8MHz proc
256 KB RAM
one 5 1/4" floppy drives
NO hard drive
4 color CGA graphics
so hey..screw you and you 23 gig beta :P
Actually, back in those days developers were professional and artistic. They were true professionals compared to some of the hacks that call themselves programmers today. Back in those days developers squeezed every ounce of power out of currently available machines and optimized the hell out of their code. Not today, because they and the hardware companie know that there are suckers out there that are dumb enough to go out and buy a $500.00 graphics card every year while playing a game with the exact same gameplay that was available a decade ago.
not to mention the users themselves had to learn the science of creating boot disks and loading certain things into "high memory" and REM'ng out QEMM or "smartdrive"
we had to tweak boot disks constantly to squeeze out more memory, more cache, removing certain things and adding certain things from our systems as opposed to snatching up another 1 gig stick of ram (or, I should say 64 KB of RAM)
so ya I agree, programming and users themselves both have become a bit sloppy
"If you want a picture of the future, imagine a robot foot stomping on a human face -- forever."
The 20 gigs isn't actually squeezing in detail. It should be for offering enough variations to let more people run it. Infact it would be impractical to use large enough texture maps to fill 20 gigs since the real limiting factor in texture size are the amount of textures being used at any given time, and the target memory usage of both the system and the video card. I am pretty sure the size comes from the LODs and the MipMaps, as well as just the sheer size of the terrain.
I think the size is big... but most games increase in size. Around 5 years ago, games were lik 700 mB.. now it's around 4gB. In the future I wouldn't be surprised with games over 20gB or more. There are even harddisks on the market with 1tB (1000gB) nowadays. That's the process of technology, it increases in size, but the hardware follows it.
To me it's all a bit exxagarated, it's just the natural process of computers, while I agree it looks alot now.. it may be normal in the near future.. perhaps even on release.
Originally posted by shae Ugh, I must have missed the earlier post where you explained how someone was holding you hostage at home with a gun to your head, forcing you to download Vanguard Beta. Seriously, do you need us to call the police or something. Give us a sign... anything.
LMAO!
10/10
Every time I read your post, I die a little inside...
I knew Id be needing a new rig for VG and am planning for one first thing in the new year. My old one is 4 yrs old now and alot of the specs just barely make the minimums. But I didnt even look at the hard drive spec because in all the years Ive been playing games the hard drive has NEVER been an issue, specwise. I have 2 40 gig drives and the C drive was pretty full with just normal windows stuff, NWN2 and some other beta. I was able to clear out enough for this beta (if/when I get in) but its pretty close. So yea, Im not compaining, but just surprised.
I knew Id be needing a new rig for VG and am planning for one first thing in the new year. My old one is 4 yrs old now and alot of the specs just barely make the minimums. But I didnt even look at the hard drive spec because in all the years Ive been playing games the hard drive has NEVER been an issue, specwise. I have 2 40 gig drives and the C drive was pretty full with just normal windows stuff, NWN2 and some other beta. I was able to clear out enough for this beta (if/when I get in) but its pretty close. So yea, Im not compaining, but just surprised.
lol my machine is the same way. But the new system I am building is pretty kick ass.
Originally posted by clragon the size itself doesn't matter too much to me. But from my experience an oversized game often means a badly coded game...lets hope vanguard is not the case..
I think this is the point most were trying to make. It's not a matter of space being an issue, as most computers nowadays have at least 40gb-80gb of HD space. The big question here is "Why does it NEED to be that big?"
I've played some pretty big games, but none of them have ever come anywhere close to 23gb at all. I think the largest I've seen was around 7 or 8gb.
Originally posted by clragon ...from my experience an oversized game often means a badly coded game...
lets hope vanguard is not the case..
OMG, you have got to be kidding right? Code has nothing to do with the size of the game install. The install size has EVERYTHING to do with the content packages not being compressed yet because it's still in development. It's easier to work with your assets when they're not compressed; so in its non-compressed format a file that would normaly be 3 to 4 MBs like a high resolution model/high polygon count static mesh would be half of that once compressed into the package.
So I don't know what to conclude from "your" experience, as code has nothing to do with it! C++ code once compiled into 001110100110000110111111111000110001000 can't get much smaller after it's optimized.
Whopptie!!! 17G isn't that big. Besides that fact, i just installed my preorder and it only took 9gig. So unless there is an 8 gig patch waitin for me, i'd say there is somethin up with the fileplanet beta
Originally posted by clragon ...from my experience an oversized game often means a badly coded game...
lets hope vanguard is not the case..
OMG, you have got to be kidding right? Code has nothing to do with the size of the game install. The install size has EVERYTHING to do with the content packages not being compressed yet because it's still in development. It's easier to work with your assets when they're not compressed; so in its non-compressed format a file that would normaly be 3 to 4 MBs like a high resolution model/high polygon count static mesh would be half of that once compressed into the package.
So I don't know what to conclude from "your" experience, as code has nothing to do with it! C++ code once compiled into 001110100110000110111111111000110001000 can't get much smaller after it's optimized.
Code IS compressed when you download the installation files. The install process is the process of decompressing those files. You can't use a compressed file in a game without decompressing it first.
Since we're discussing the amount of disk space being taken up AFTER install, it's pretty silly to argue that the installation package BEFORE install is huge due to it being non-compressed. It's even sillier to argue that the game takes up a lot of space AFTER install due to non-compression, since that's the whole point on installation.
So yes, the game is non-compressed. That's the way games are played. What's your point?
Comments
As for the claim that five years ago that 80GB drives weren't average insomuch being below average is completely untrue due to the fact that the average HDD in 2003 for a out of the box PC was about 40 GB per drive [that's for the $600 to $1200 brands of the day]. So, please stop exaggerating the OP's problem.
What I will say is that the game is huge, but not abnormally huge for what it does. In fact, I believe my copy of UT2004 is literally 6.4gigs in size, and that is without the mod files and my own personal player model [which kicks it up to about 7 gigs]. And I have about 160GB of space and I still wouldn't feel that much of a pinch on this game since I keep a tidy file system. If you're running out of space, please try any of the tools in the trial copies of any of your favorite utility suites, which can find all the bloated temp files.
But on a side note, HDDs are at rock bottom prices right now and it's a prime time to get them, if you have an older system [ATA family] before they dry up. If you got a newer HDD interface, the prices are still below average for the market, so soak up what you can, storage is cheap, your pulled out hair because of frustration isn't.
-- Bridget
http://www.speedtest.net/result/7300033012
http://www.speedtest.net/result/7300033012
URL=http://www.ff-fan.com]
[/URL]
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
I think that in many beta releases game developers put many more things in the code to ensure that if something goes wrong they will be able to easily track the problem and fix it. But if even that happens i am amazed of how big is the installation of Vanguard since the biggest installation of a modern MMO requires mostly about 8-9 giga of disk space. I think it was Eq2 since most of the npcs were really talking.
I don't care much though if the game requires a "lot" of hard disk space. I have just a 80 giga HD and whenever i really want to install something new i find a lot of crap i don't use
I wish that size matters in computer games so vanguard will be the next game i will play.
Happy new Year!
not to mention the users themselves had to learn the science of creating boot disks and loading certain things into "high memory" and REM'ng out QEMM or "smartdrive"
we had to tweak boot disks constantly to squeeze out more memory, more cache, removing certain things and adding certain things from our systems as opposed to snatching up another 1 gig stick of ram (or, I should say 64 KB of RAM)
so ya I agree, programming and users themselves both have become a bit sloppy
"If you want a picture of the future, imagine a robot foot stomping on a human face -- forever."
I think the size is big... but most games increase in size. Around 5 years ago, games were lik 700 mB.. now it's around 4gB. In the future I wouldn't be surprised with games over 20gB or more. There are even harddisks on the market with 1tB (1000gB) nowadays. That's the process of technology, it increases in size, but the hardware follows it.
To me it's all a bit exxagarated, it's just the natural process of computers, while I agree it looks alot now.. it may be normal in the near future.. perhaps even on release.
LMAO!
10/10
If you dont want spend money on new hardware, buy a console and play brainless buttonmashing Games.
PC Gaming is my hobby, thats the thing where i waste my money.
both setup with RAID ZERO
Desktop Built 2000
P4 2.8
3gig PC 3200
Raid Zero "EIDE"--> x2 60 gig (total space 120gig)
Asus 9950 Gforce 6xxx series
10/100/1000 Network interface
Laptop Built 2006
Amd Turion 64 2.4 ghz
2 gig Kingston Dual channel Hyper-X
Raid Zero "SATA" --> x2 80 gig (total space 160gig)
Sli-Gforce 7900 go (x2 256meg per)
10/100/1000 Network interface
Wireless g+ (54Mbps) interface card
Expanded Display
Toshiba 700 series HD Projector setup for 300" screen at 1440 by 900 wide screen
Network Router
Cisco 10/100/1000 switching series
External SCSI Drive Array
240 gig SCSI aray with 10/100/1000 interface
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My point is 80gig was considered average back in the year 2000 for a beta tester / gamer.....provided money is availible
---Retired---
WAR - Lots
Vanguard - Lots
---Live---
WoW - LOTS
EQ - LOTS
lets hope vanguard is not the case..
I think this is the point most were trying to make. It's not a matter of space being an issue, as most computers nowadays have at least 40gb-80gb of HD space. The big question here is "Why does it NEED to be that big?"
I've played some pretty big games, but none of them have ever come anywhere close to 23gb at all. I think the largest I've seen was around 7 or 8gb.
That's a huge filesize for sure. But I hear nothing but good things about it and that its "worth every GB"
So we'll see I guess. I'm sure all the people playing BETA will inform us
----------
currentlyplaying:
age of conan
OMG, you have got to be kidding right? Code has nothing to do with the size of the game install. The install size has EVERYTHING to do with the content packages not being compressed yet because it's still in development. It's easier to work with your assets when they're not compressed; so in its non-compressed format a file that would normaly be 3 to 4 MBs like a high resolution model/high polygon count static mesh would be half of that once compressed into the package.
So I don't know what to conclude from "your" experience, as code has nothing to do with it! C++ code once compiled into 001110100110000110111111111000110001000 can't get much smaller after it's optimized.
Think "WOW" times almost 3 in total land mass
Keep in mind, The oceans play a large part in VG, were WOW had allot of dead space filled by un-used water!
---Retired---
WAR - Lots
Vanguard - Lots
---Live---
WoW - LOTS
EQ - LOTS
eqnext.wikia.com
Code IS compressed when you download the installation files. The install process is the process of decompressing those files. You can't use a compressed file in a game without decompressing it first.
Since we're discussing the amount of disk space being taken up AFTER install, it's pretty silly to argue that the installation package BEFORE install is huge due to it being non-compressed. It's even sillier to argue that the game takes up a lot of space AFTER install due to non-compression, since that's the whole point on installation.
So yes, the game is non-compressed. That's the way games are played. What's your point?