I don't know if I'd call any of Israel's actions terrorism. It is true that Israel has no real respect for the borders or airspace of any Arab nation. Does that amount to invasion? I think that term is a little strong, honestly.
As far as Iranians go, most of them spend as much time thinking about America as we do their country. They have their own domestic problems, serious ones at that, and it's those issues which are on the minds of their people more than anything else.
Why use the word infidels, honestly? I lived in the Middle East for eight or nine years. 99% of Arabs don't care that America isn't a Muslim country. They hate America because we support Israel. Most of them are of the opinion that America is the only thing keeping Israel around.
Except of course for the fact that Iran's leaders and many of its people hate the United States and every infidel that lives in it. Disagree with that? Wake up to reality please.
I suggest to you that very few Americans or American leaders hatred for Iran is based on anything more than pre-judgement. You don't know any Iranians, why do you hate them?
Enemies are perfectly capable of becoming friends. Your grounds for enmity are weak at best. If you wanted to you could be friends,you just don't want to.
Anyway, why would I care if Americans hate Iranians? Boo hoo. Hate whoever you like, as long as you don't step on my toes I'm cool with it.
Iran has a great big oil supply and will quite possibly soon have domination over the Persian Gulf. It borders two countries where our troops are currently deployed in and is influental in it's region. It's a good market for our weapons systems. It has major trade relations with countries that I am in no small way invested in. Like the U.S., it's continued success is financially important to me. Not to mention any attack on Iran will greatly increase the pice of petrol and detriment my oil price dependant U.S. investments too.
The same isn't true of Israel, with it's history of terrorism against us and it's (almost weekly) repeated invasions of it's neighbours. Stirring up regional insecurity, causing large scale deployments on it's borders by our allies, deployments that take troops away from other theatres we are jointly operating in. It has no assets. Nothing to trade. A big expensive pain in the bum for no gain.
It's something of any easy choice.
I said absolutely nothing about American's hatred for Iranians...yet you just posted about a page of information about why American's who hate iranians are ignorant.../boggle
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
I'm too lazy to look through the pages of this thread to check if someone mentioned, but this wouldn't be the first time Israel has done something of this sort.
Back in 1980-81, Saddam's various WMD programs were in various stages of production / construction. France and Germany were in the process of providing Saddam with various parts to make a nuclear reactor or two for 'civil purposes.' Israel bombed the facilities before the reactors and equipment even arrived in Iraq, thus setting Saddam back at least 10-12 years. I seriously doubt that Israel would actually escalate a theater conflict like this using nukes. But you never know what the sneaky Mossad knows and we don't.
What's the difference between the undeniable fact that Ahmadinajhad hates America, and that many americans would feel uneasy with an alliance between us and Iran? Are you serious? Are you really that oblivious to the world? You really don't understand why an alliance between the United States and Iran is impossible?
wow...just wow.
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
Originally posted by Draenor Originally posted by baff What's the difference?
What's the difference between the undeniable fact that Ahmadinajhad hates America, and that many americans would feel uneasy with an alliance between us and Iran? Are you serious? Are you really that oblivious to the world? You really don't understand why an alliance between the United States and Iran is impossible?
wow...just wow.
Impossible? Prior to 1979, they were best friends. I imagine at some stage in the future, once Iran does away with its theocracy, they'll become friends again.
[/quote] The same isn't true of Israel, with it's history of terrorism against us and it's (almost weekly) repeated invasions of it's neighbours. Stirring up regional insecurity, causing large scale deployments on it's borders by our allies, deployments that take troops away from other theatres we are jointly operating in. It has no assets. Nothing to trade. A big expensive pain in the bum for no gain. It's something of any easy choice.[/b][/quote]
I agree.
The world would be a better place without Israel. They are the cause of so many wars and international involvements. I seriously hope the U.S. sits this one out. Not for fear of war or whatnot. Just because Israel thinks it can do whatever it likes because the U.S. will rush to their aid. I hope Israel gets what it asks for.
It reminds me of 2 brothers I know. Back in high school I had a friend who was a pretty big guy and was known for really beating the crap of people.
Our senior year his little brother started high school. His brother always talked shit and people really hated him but did nothing because of his enormous big brother.
Can you guess what happened to the little brother after his big brother graduated and moved on?
Now with Iraq out of the way, Iran has easy access to Israel. Israel should think twice. But I hope they do it just so I can watch them go down.
And after we get past the need for oil, pfffft, who is gonna care what happens in the Middle-East?
Haha, that is funny. You are a FAST-TALKER, and a rather good one.
Having PLANS on something and actually PLANNING to do something is not the same. Israel is not planning on doing it, on executing it, they merely have plans about it.
Just like the US have plans about a total invasion and occupation of Canada, that Russia have plans on nuking the US and how, the US have plans on nuking Russia as well...and so on. The lists of plans everyone has...is tremendous.
But you are definitely the BEST example of a FAST-TALKER I ever saw, and the many answers you got on the thread prove this.
Nicely done outfctrl, you are a master of social skills!
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
What's the difference between the undeniable fact that Ahmadinajhad hates America, and that many americans would feel uneasy with an alliance between us and Iran? Are you serious? Are you really that oblivious to the world? You really don't understand why an alliance between the United States and Iran is impossible?
wow...just wow.
But Bush loves Iran. Is that it?
Like the man above says, America has been allied with Iran before. It's a strategically important country.
Are American's comfortable with their alliances in Uzbekistan or Turkmenistan? Saudi Arabia? China? Liberia? Libia?
What's "comfortable" got to do with anything, would you be more comfortable with a world recession? Would you be more comfortable if your biggest creditors ran out of money to lend you? Or under sanctions?
For the record, I'm not American. Iranians and Americans slagging each other off is no reason for us not to form an alliance. For that matter it's not an unjumpable hurdle for you lot either. Bush will be gone in two years. Ahmadinejad too.
What's the difference between the undeniable fact that Ahmadinajhad hates America, and that many americans would feel uneasy with an alliance between us and Iran? Are you serious? Are you really that oblivious to the world? You really don't understand why an alliance between the United States and Iran is impossible?
wow...just wow.
Impossible? Prior to 1979, they were best friends. I imagine at some stage in the future, once Iran does away with its theocracy, they'll become friends again.
MMkay you go ahead and ask good ole Mahmoud Ahmadinjad if he is interested in an alliance with the infidel.
“As the Imam said, Israel must be wiped off the map,”
“The fighting in Palestine is a war between the (whole) Islamic nation and the world of arrogance, ... Today, Palestinians are representing the Islamic nation against arrogance" (In other words, the war between Islam and the rest of the world, including the United States)
They have invented a myth that Jews were massacred and place this above God, religions and the prophets. The West has given more significance to the myth of the genocide of the Jews, even more significant than God, religion, and the prophets, (it) deals very severely with those who deny this myth but does not do anything to those who deny God, religion, and the prophet. If you have burned the Jews, why don't you give a piece of Europe, the United States, Canada or Alaska to Israel? Our question is, if you have committed this huge crime, why should the innocent nation of Palestine pay for this crime?(One of his many "the holocaust never happened tyrades)
"Our dear Imam said that the occupying regime must be wiped off the map and this was a very wise statement" (in other words, kill all the jews)
"Nuclear energy is the scientific achievement of the Iranian nation." (I'm sorry...what? This is as bad as Gore's "I took the initiative to create the internet")
"We believe that visa quotas should be lifted and people should visit anywhere they wish freely." (Yeah, I bet you do, say that when a massive influx of Christians comes into your country and you start chopping their heads off)
YUP...This guy seems like somebody that we should be allying ourselves with...yup he sure does.
The past is the past, just because it was in our best interest to hold a political alliance with a country at one point in time does not make it possible at the current time. Ahmadinejad is a crazy Muslim fundamentalist bent on the utter destruction of anything that doesn't follow the teachings of their prophet Muhammed. What happens after he gets his destruction of Israel? The Koran preaches that Islam will be the only religion on Earth, THAT is his goal...do you understand that? This man believes he will be the one to bring back the Mahdi. Do you know what the Mahdi is? The Mahdi is the one who will change the world into a "perfect society of Islam". Do you know what the implications of that are? It means that he believes that he will ultimately bring about the end of the world. Both Sunni and Shi'a Muslims both believe that the coming of the Mahdi signifies the coming of the last days of the world. And you want to ally yourself with him?
You really should take the time to read up on Muslim beliefs about the Mahdi, the "perfect world of Islam" and how that "perfect world" may be achieved...religion of peace indeed. And this man is about as militant and radical as they get. He says that he wants nuclear technology for the sole purpose of energy, and that developing nuclear weapons would be against Muslim beliefs....sure okay Mahmoud, you keep telling yourself that...I don't believe that load of bullshit for a second. Mahmoud has said on multiple occasions that it is wrong of the United States to tell other countries that they may not research Nuclear weapons technology. I ask you, if he didn't want to develop nuclear weapons, why would he have such a problem with the United States telling him not to?
I look forward to your justification of Ahmadinejad's anti semetic rantings and his belief that he will be the one to bring about the coming of the Mahdi...and just why exactly someone like him would make a fitting ally for my country.
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
Right, but if Bush suggests he is preparing to nuke Iran and that Iranians are evil we should all ally with him should we? If Bush says God told him to invade Iraq he would seem like a rational man?
I look forward to your justification of Ahmadinejad's anti semetic rantings and his belief that he will be the one to bring about the coming of the Mahdi...and just why exactly someone like him would make a fitting ally for my country.
That's easy... because he offered $20 per American tourist to the travel agencies! Would a psycho killer do something like that? Besides, just look at that face. I can feel the love, can't you?
Right but if Bush suggests he wants to nuke Tehran and that Iranians are evil we should all ally with him? If we are going to be wiping people off the map, better Israel.
You truly don't understand the long term ramifications of an alliance with this man. Did you just skip the part about the Mahdi? Do you not understand what this man's ultimate goals are?
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
Right, but if Bush suggests he is preparing to nuke Iran and that Iranians are evil we should all ally with him should we? If Bush says God told him to invade Iraq he would seem like a rational man? Spare me the double standards.
I think I can safely say that most people (even those that originally supported Bush) don't agree with the war in Iraq. Even Pat Robertson has said as much. The problem with your comparison is that we don't want to wipe Iran off the map, we're just talking about taking out their nuclear facilities out of valid concerns for safety. While not every country agrees with that approach, pretty much every country does agree that Iran would be a lot more dangerous to everyone if it had fully functioning nuclear facilities.
Iran on the other hand wants the state of Israel exterminated just because they exist.
No. Iran wants the state of Israel overthrown and Jersalem returned to it's previous (and in most middle eastern eyes legitimate) government. I'm not aware of the Iranian government calling for the total destruction of the jewish people at all ever. I think the closest they have come to it, is saying that there needs to be a nuclear muslim government in the region to counter balance Israel. (Probably about 20 years ago before they had any nuclear program).
Many people chose to interpret this as a call for genocide. Which is no more inflammatory than when people say Bush plans to nuke Iran. Quite a lot less actually, since he directly threatened it, and Iran directly stated they have no desire to go nuclear and had no plans for a pre-emptive strike on Israel.
Originally posted by patri0tz
we're just talking about taking out their nuclear facilities out of valid concerns for safety.
No. Iran wants the state of Israel overthrown and Jersalem returned to it's previous (and in most middle eastern eyes legitimate) government. I'm not aware of the Iranian government calling for the total destruction of the jewish people at all ever. I think the closest they have come to it, is saying that there needs to be a nuclear muslim government in the region to counter balance Israel.
Many people chose to interpret this as a call for genocide. Which is no more inflammatory than when people say Bush plans to nuke Iran.
Well the fact that a statement like that is even up for interpretation should indicate something... he's had many opportunities to clarify it if he wanted to calm the world down.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not a Bush supporter (for the most part). His foreign policies have put my country in a dangerous light with the rest of the world, which could ultimately affect me and my family. But I would be more comfortable in general if any country would do something more than talk about keeping Iran from achieving nuclear validity, based on their president's statements and their country's track record of supporting organizations that would be more than happy to nuke us just for the body count.
You have had every opportunity to quote him correctly and yet you refuse.
He has flatly and repeatedly clarified that he has no nuclear ambitions. He couldn't be clearer.
Personally I don't like the thought of him having that as an option.
And I think as a country they would be fools not to go nuclear at the earliest possible opportunity, just as we did. But given the choice of Israel or Iran, I'll take Iran everytime.
Clarify what? He never said it. You did. You have had every opportunity to quote him correctly and yet you refuse.
What did I say that contradicted what he said? I said he wanted the state of Israel exterminated because it exists... never said anything about genocide of the Jews. Good example of a statement being up for interpretation eh?
Clarify means to make clear. I was simply saying that he's had ample opportunity to explain more clearly what he meant if he wanted to calm the world down.
Indoctrination huh? Except that I actually went out and researched every single thing in my post on my own. How about you open your eyes to the truth, and stop with your unrealistic ideas about an alliance with a country that hates us.
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
Also, Baff...The current plan from Israel to nuke Iran is not a plan to nuke their cities. It is a plan to nuke underground bunkers that are developing nuclear technology. Mahmoud's desire to "wipe Israel off of the map" and "eliminate the Zionists from the world" has been expressed by him on many occasions. Your comparision between the two is completely invalid.
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
Comments
I don't know if I'd call any of Israel's actions terrorism. It is true that Israel has no real respect for the borders or airspace of any Arab nation. Does that amount to invasion? I think that term is a little strong, honestly.
As far as Iranians go, most of them spend as much time thinking about America as we do their country. They have their own domestic problems, serious ones at that, and it's those issues which are on the minds of their people more than anything else.
Why use the word infidels, honestly? I lived in the Middle East for eight or nine years. 99% of Arabs don't care that America isn't a Muslim country. They hate America because we support Israel. Most of them are of the opinion that America is the only thing keeping Israel around.
I suggest to you that very few Americans or American leaders hatred for Iran is based on anything more than pre-judgement. You don't know any Iranians, why do you hate them?
Enemies are perfectly capable of becoming friends. Your grounds for enmity are weak at best. If you wanted to you could be friends, you just don't want to.
Anyway, why would I care if Americans hate Iranians? Boo hoo. Hate whoever you like, as long as you don't step on my toes I'm cool with it.
Iran has a great big oil supply and will quite possibly soon have domination over the Persian Gulf. It borders two countries where our troops are currently deployed in and is influental in it's region. It's a good market for our weapons systems. It has major trade relations with countries that I am in no small way invested in. Like the U.S., it's continued success is financially important to me. Not to mention any attack on Iran will greatly increase the pice of petrol and detriment my oil price dependant U.S. investments too.
The same isn't true of Israel, with it's history of terrorism against us and it's (almost weekly) repeated invasions of it's neighbours. Stirring up regional insecurity, causing large scale deployments on it's borders by our allies, deployments that take troops away from other theatres we are jointly operating in. It has no assets. Nothing to trade. A big expensive pain in the bum for no gain.
It's something of any easy choice.
I said absolutely nothing about American's hatred for Iranians...yet you just posted about a page of information about why American's who hate iranians are ignorant.../boggle
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
What's the difference?
Cryomatrix
You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
Back in 1980-81, Saddam's various WMD programs were in various stages of production / construction. France and Germany were in the process of providing Saddam with various parts to make a nuclear reactor or two for 'civil purposes.' Israel bombed the facilities before the reactors and equipment even arrived in Iraq, thus setting Saddam back at least 10-12 years. I seriously doubt that Israel would actually escalate a theater conflict like this using nukes. But you never know what the sneaky Mossad knows and we don't.
What's the difference between the undeniable fact that Ahmadinajhad hates America, and that many americans would feel uneasy with an alliance between us and Iran? Are you serious? Are you really that oblivious to the world? You really don't understand why an alliance between the United States and Iran is impossible?
wow...just wow.
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
wow...just wow.
Impossible? Prior to 1979, they were best friends. I imagine at some stage in the future, once Iran does away with its theocracy, they'll become friends again.
[/quote]
The same isn't true of Israel, with it's history of terrorism against us and it's (almost weekly) repeated invasions of it's neighbours. Stirring up regional insecurity, causing large scale deployments on it's borders by our allies, deployments that take troops away from other theatres we are jointly operating in. It has no assets. Nothing to trade. A big expensive pain in the bum for no gain.
It's something of any easy choice.[/b][/quote]
I agree.
The world would be a better place without Israel. They are the cause of so many wars and international involvements. I seriously hope the U.S. sits this one out. Not for fear of war or whatnot. Just because Israel thinks it can do whatever it likes because the U.S. will rush to their aid. I hope Israel gets what it asks for.
It reminds me of 2 brothers I know. Back in high school I had a friend who was a pretty big guy and was known for really beating the crap of people.
Our senior year his little brother started high school. His brother always talked shit and people really hated him but did nothing because of his enormous big brother.
Can you guess what happened to the little brother after his big brother graduated and moved on?
Now with Iraq out of the way, Iran has easy access to Israel. Israel should think twice. But I hope they do it just so I can watch them go down.
And after we get past the need for oil, pfffft, who is gonna care what happens in the Middle-East?
Haha, that is funny. You are a FAST-TALKER, and a rather good one.
Having PLANS on something and actually PLANNING to do something is not the same. Israel is not planning on doing it, on executing it, they merely have plans about it.
Just like the US have plans about a total invasion and occupation of Canada, that Russia have plans on nuking the US and how, the US have plans on nuking Russia as well...and so on. The lists of plans everyone has...is tremendous.
But you are definitely the BEST example of a FAST-TALKER I ever saw, and the many answers you got on the thread prove this.
Nicely done outfctrl, you are a master of social skills!
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
What's the difference between the undeniable fact that Ahmadinajhad hates America, and that many americans would feel uneasy with an alliance between us and Iran? Are you serious? Are you really that oblivious to the world? You really don't understand why an alliance between the United States and Iran is impossible?
wow...just wow.
But Bush loves Iran. Is that it?
Like the man above says, America has been allied with Iran before. It's a strategically important country.
Are American's comfortable with their alliances in Uzbekistan or Turkmenistan? Saudi Arabia? China? Liberia? Libia?
What's "comfortable" got to do with anything, would you be more comfortable with a world recession? Would you be more comfortable if your biggest creditors ran out of money to lend you? Or under sanctions?
For the record, I'm not American. Iranians and Americans slagging each other off is no reason for us not to form an alliance. For that matter it's not an unjumpable hurdle for you lot either. Bush will be gone in two years. Ahmadinejad too.
And if you can't beat them......
wow...just wow.
Impossible? Prior to 1979, they were best friends. I imagine at some stage in the future, once Iran does away with its theocracy, they'll become friends again.
MMkay you go ahead and ask good ole Mahmoud Ahmadinjad if he is interested in an alliance with the infidel.
“As the Imam said, Israel must be wiped off the map,”
“The fighting in Palestine is a war between the (whole) Islamic nation and the world of arrogance, ... Today, Palestinians are representing the Islamic nation against arrogance" (In other words, the war between Islam and the rest of the world, including the United States)
They have invented a myth that Jews were massacred and place this above God, religions and the prophets. The West has given more significance to the myth of the genocide of the Jews, even more significant than God, religion, and the prophets, (it) deals very severely with those who deny this myth but does not do anything to those who deny God, religion, and the prophet. If you have burned the Jews, why don't you give a piece of Europe, the United States, Canada or Alaska to Israel? Our question is, if you have committed this huge crime, why should the innocent nation of Palestine pay for this crime?(One of his many "the holocaust never happened tyrades)
"Our dear Imam said that the occupying regime must be wiped off the map and this was a very wise statement" (in other words, kill all the jews)
"Nuclear energy is the scientific achievement of the Iranian nation." (I'm sorry...what? This is as bad as Gore's "I took the initiative to create the internet")
"We believe that visa quotas should be lifted and people should visit anywhere they wish freely." (Yeah, I bet you do, say that when a massive influx of Christians comes into your country and you start chopping their heads off)
YUP...This guy seems like somebody that we should be allying ourselves with...yup he sure does.
The past is the past, just because it was in our best interest to hold a political alliance with a country at one point in time does not make it possible at the current time. Ahmadinejad is a crazy Muslim fundamentalist bent on the utter destruction of anything that doesn't follow the teachings of their prophet Muhammed. What happens after he gets his destruction of Israel? The Koran preaches that Islam will be the only religion on Earth, THAT is his goal...do you understand that? This man believes he will be the one to bring back the Mahdi. Do you know what the Mahdi is? The Mahdi is the one who will change the world into a "perfect society of Islam". Do you know what the implications of that are? It means that he believes that he will ultimately bring about the end of the world. Both Sunni and Shi'a Muslims both believe that the coming of the Mahdi signifies the coming of the last days of the world. And you want to ally yourself with him?
You really should take the time to read up on Muslim beliefs about the Mahdi, the "perfect world of Islam" and how that "perfect world" may be achieved...religion of peace indeed. And this man is about as militant and radical as they get. He says that he wants nuclear technology for the sole purpose of energy, and that developing nuclear weapons would be against Muslim beliefs....sure okay Mahmoud, you keep telling yourself that...I don't believe that load of bullshit for a second. Mahmoud has said on multiple occasions that it is wrong of the United States to tell other countries that they may not research Nuclear weapons technology. I ask you, if he didn't want to develop nuclear weapons, why would he have such a problem with the United States telling him not to?
I look forward to your justification of Ahmadinejad's anti semetic rantings and his belief that he will be the one to bring about the coming of the Mahdi...and just why exactly someone like him would make a fitting ally for my country.
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
Right, but if Bush suggests he is preparing to nuke Iran and that Iranians are evil we should all ally with him should we? If Bush says God told him to invade Iraq he would seem like a rational man?
Spare me the double standards.
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
They are just as mad as your leaders. Toppling every government in the middle east, spreading democracy, Christian values for all.
I don't care what his long term goals are any more than I care about Bush's. He won't be in power for long either.
If we can deal with you, we can deal with him. And are.
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
Iran on the other hand wants the state of Israel exterminated just because they exist.
No. Iran wants the state of Israel overthrown and Jersalem returned to it's previous (and in most middle eastern eyes legitimate) government. I'm not aware of the Iranian government calling for the total destruction of the jewish people at all ever. I think the closest they have come to it, is saying that there needs to be a nuclear muslim government in the region to counter balance Israel. (Probably about 20 years ago before they had any nuclear program).
Many people chose to interpret this as a call for genocide. Which is no more inflammatory than when people say Bush plans to nuke Iran. Quite a lot less actually, since he directly threatened it, and Iran directly stated they have no desire to go nuclear and had no plans for a pre-emptive strike on Israel.
Lmao. That sounds safe.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not a Bush supporter (for the most part). His foreign policies have put my country in a dangerous light with the rest of the world, which could ultimately affect me and my family. But I would be more comfortable in general if any country would do something more than talk about keeping Iran from achieving nuclear validity, based on their president's statements and their country's track record of supporting organizations that would be more than happy to nuke us just for the body count.
Clarify what?
He never said it. You did.
You have had every opportunity to quote him correctly and yet you refuse.
He has flatly and repeatedly clarified that he has no nuclear ambitions. He couldn't be clearer.
Personally I don't like the thought of him having that as an option.
And I think as a country they would be fools not to go nuclear at the earliest possible opportunity, just as we did. But given the choice of Israel or Iran, I'll take Iran everytime.
Clarify means to make clear. I was simply saying that he's had ample opportunity to explain more clearly what he meant if he wanted to calm the world down.
Exterminated?
Is that a direct quote please?
And what does exterminated mean if it doesn't mean killed?
He didn't say it. You did.
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.