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How did everything come to be?
Infliction
Member Posts: 1,115
There's been one burning question in the back of my head for some time now, that I've never even seen discussed.
The Big Bang Theory does a pretty good job explaining (in theory of course) how the planets formed and became what they are today, but that's just scratching the surface. For all of this to happen the particles and molecules and whatever other scientific terms I can pull out of my ass had to come from somewhere. So where did they come from? Now according to a recent poll on these boards, 60% or so of you are immediately going to come out and say "God, of course!", but that would merely make a complex discussion more complex, as a being complex enough to create such things had to come from somewhere as well, and the reverse logic entailed in saying that "God" was always here cancels out any rational thought on the subject, as a cop-out as such could easily lead the other half to say "Well the particles and molecules and space dusts/whatever were always there!", so lets stay away from that one please.
I get the idea that we may never figure out as a society how everything came to be what it is, and just thinking about the subject kinda makes my head hurt, for creation requires substance of some sort, meaning for one thing to exist, preexisting materials had to come together to form such things. This is true for all things, down to tiny atoms invisible to the human eye, and thing so small our greatest telescopes can't see.
DISCUSS
The Big Bang Theory does a pretty good job explaining (in theory of course) how the planets formed and became what they are today, but that's just scratching the surface. For all of this to happen the particles and molecules and whatever other scientific terms I can pull out of my ass had to come from somewhere. So where did they come from? Now according to a recent poll on these boards, 60% or so of you are immediately going to come out and say "God, of course!", but that would merely make a complex discussion more complex, as a being complex enough to create such things had to come from somewhere as well, and the reverse logic entailed in saying that "God" was always here cancels out any rational thought on the subject, as a cop-out as such could easily lead the other half to say "Well the particles and molecules and space dusts/whatever were always there!", so lets stay away from that one please.
I get the idea that we may never figure out as a society how everything came to be what it is, and just thinking about the subject kinda makes my head hurt, for creation requires substance of some sort, meaning for one thing to exist, preexisting materials had to come together to form such things. This is true for all things, down to tiny atoms invisible to the human eye, and thing so small our greatest telescopes can't see.
DISCUSS
Comments
GODDIDIT
the big bang isn't accepted by even the purest of evolutionary science thinkers anymore...if you want me to start listing off the holes in the big bang, I'll be happy to
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
"In the beginning, there was nothing. Then it exploded."-Terry Pratchett
If you want a mega-excederin headache, Start surfing for sites that explain string-theory and quantum physics. I couldn't follow most of it. But I think it has to do with the theory of multiple dimensions. Don't expect to find anything as simple as we came from another dimension. It gets really wierd.
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
Edit: or I should say, the parallel universe in a box machine.
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
I'm pretty sure you understood exactly what I meant when i said lets leave god out of this one. I can acknowledge your intelligence Draenor, but your complete lack of logic and reason scares me a little sometimes. You should run for president.
There are quite a few theories about how the universe came about. No one knows for certain. While there is plenty of evidence to back up the big bang theory, that same evidence can also prove other methods. The only thing known for sure, beyond a reasonable doubt, was that the universe did come from a single point. Everything is moving away from a central point.
They have also used this movement to figure out the age of the universe. By tracking the speed of the galaxies and distance they travel, they have come to a rough number of about 15 billion years. As I said though this a rough estimate. I am sure in the coming centuries the answers will become more clear.
Kai
-In memory of Laura "Taera" Genender. Passed away on Aug/13/08-
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RISING DRAGOON ~AION US ONLINE LEGION for Elyos
Firstly our limited comprehension only allows us to observe space and time though 3 dimensional terms and most definatly there is more than 5 dimensions and if string theory is going in the right place probably 10+ D's. Differant dimensions will have strange in do things we just as humans cant understand presently, alot of scientists call time the 4th dimension and we still dont know where quantum singularities collapse into. Lots of progress in this field will be made in the next 100 years so I am really looking forward to being alive now we might get some good answers soon and hopefully as people take the blinders off!
In my personal opinion past,present and future are only relative to the observer in 3d space/time and if traveling in 5d time once would move and experience things that are currently unable to be precieved so basicly there is no need for a beggining or an end because they are one in the same thing.
{(RIP)} SWG
I find it a little weird that the OP insists on leaving God out of this discussion when we're discussing theories such as the one above, and other theories which involve concepts that are hard to grasp for people and are theories based on speculation and little or no more evidence than suggesting a creator may be involved. The ideas of a god who is outside of time, or infinite are also hard to grasp, but if you start with that assumption, there's no need to ask the "who made God then?" question.
I would suggest that rather saying "leave God out of this" and excluding the maybe 60% who would not necessarily leave a creator out of these theories, that we just exclude the "God made it and that's all we need to know" kind of attitude and ask the question, "if God made it, then how and by what methods?" Those who believe in a creator and do not discredit scientific discovery should not see any contradiction between science and their beliefs.
The reason people think of the big bang theory is because they are working backwords. They look at the universe and they see everything moving away, proven in one way by the phenomenon called red shift, they see evidence and they work back to what they think has happened. They come up with the big bang which is akin to seeing a crime scene that happened 2343214123412423 years ago and extrapolating what happened.
A person can bring up God if they want, it's a convenient answer, but another question to ask is why is there metal, why are there atoms, the building block of the world, why are they here?
It's an impossible answer, because to know why you need to be able to either have someone who created the atoms tell you why its there or you have to see it happen.
How did everything come to be, who knows, isn't that the million dollar question. What I like to do is lay in bed, shut off all the lights, essentially eliminate all external neural stimuli and concentrate on what that entity is that is thinking, what is that entity that is aware of the surroundings that can act without external stimuli, what the hell is thinking on what the hell is thikning basically. Who knows? You can't answer this question.
If you're looking for some scientific theory, even though the big bang (which I call my friday nights as well . . . not) may have holes in it, it probably also has the most supporting evidence out of any theory. What are there aliens? If so, who put them there, the answer is not answered. You can't even answer the question. No scientific theory holds as much water as the big bang even though it may have holes. If you're not going to accept the big bang, then i doubt you can accept any other scientific theory. What remains is conjecture and religion and no they are not the same thing.
Good morning Outofctrl,
I don't think God would rest on the 7th day, God doesn't need rest
Oh well, who cares, my theory on how everything came to be which does not include God is that the carebears created everything. Nice and cute creatures who live in clouds decided to put the planets and put in the scientific laws like gravity, electrostatics, magnetism, Nucleophilic atom attacks an electrophilic carbon . . . etc. They acted so dumb, but they were just playing stupid, they're the creators . . . yay.
Cryomatrix
You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
Morning Cyro,
I said I believe in intelligent design. The possibilities of the creation of earth/Life and all the planets out of pure coincidences are astronomical. Something or someone had to have some control. I believe in evolution but I believe in a higher intelligence that did the math and calculations. Not sure If I can grasp the magic theory of "Poof" here it is.
Carl Sagan summed it up perfectly with the Pale Blue Dot thing.
Image
We're insignificant and any belief system that tries to claim otherwise is just...wrong.
It's not how big you are, but what you do with it that countsbtw, i would just like to point out one thing though, the whole point of God being God is that He does transcend time and space and matter and dimensions and everything else that might exist. convienent i know, but convienance doesnt always equal false.
______________________________
What's your Wu Name?
Donovan --> Wu Name = Violent Knight
Methane47 --> Wu Name = Thunderous Leader
"Some people call me the walking plank, 'cuz any where you go... Death is right behind you.."
<i>ME<i>
______________________________
Me personally I think there are alot of ok scientific explanations for the start... But to me the only thing that makes sense kind of is a expanding collapsing universe. (big bang remixed)
Where There is a big bang and then movement away from the point of origin and then after a while gravity takes hold and starts drawing everything back to the center and compresses it again and then Boom another big bang...
But it's still hard because some reports are showing that Galaxies are accelerating away from each other.... Which friggin blows my mind... Cuz if they are accelerating away then that must mean there is some constant force being applied from the center of the universe and pushing out... but no such force exists... So why then are galaxies speeding up?
PS: i have a headache right now so my writing may not be the best of my abillity.
What's your Wu Name?
Donovan --> Wu Name = Violent Knight
Methane47 --> Wu Name = Thunderous Leader
"Some people call me the walking plank, 'cuz any where you go... Death is right behind you.."
<i>ME<i>
So anyway it's a basic theory that goes rather deep. But it is one theory in general. It has holes, like any other theory but still.
Personally, follow the big bang theory myself, along with evolution. As for where everything came from, perhaps a discussion on dark matter, and the things nebula's and what not are made of is in order.
The fabric of space has energy fllowing through it and holds energy, it seems deviod due to its vastness spreading out this energy like a large sheet of thin metal a square kilometer conducting thermal energy. The sheet spreads out this energy so much that at any point you could touch it and not get burnt but actually it would feel cold. The heat however is not equally spread out and fluctuates from time to time, imagine after a long time it all by chance fluctates at one point on the sheet. This causes the sheet to melt then burst into flames at that single point causing an explosion.
Space is much like the metal sheet conducting energy that fluctuates throughout it, at one point in space/time a large portion of that energy became concentrated tearing the fabric of space and releasing massive amounts of energy (the big bang). No-one can tell ATM how long it was before the big bang and how long before that energy concentrated at that ponit to such a degree it tore space. However that is one of the theories behind where the big bang came from and the most plausible one to date in my opinion.
Preaching "God did it" is the easy way out, also it depends on which interpritation of the alledged word of god you believe doesn't it. Also if you believe god did it then you believe that the world is 6000 years old and we're all decended from Noah and his wife and that the entire planet was populated from two of each speciecs, then there's the dinosaurs........ So save the I believe in the word of god BS for some village idiot that believes it!
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
lol Actually yes .... I do think that every species on the planet has come from two parents..... I think you dont understand the reproductive system if you dont
I do think all humans came from a man and a woman... the man may not have been called Noah but you get the point.... Are you seriously doubting this fact? lolololol.....
Edit: I want to know WHere you think people came from then? Do you think one day Promethus woke up and *alakazam* he had a brain? then 2 days later *Whammm* his thumb turned around and became opposable.. LOL who are you calling the village idiot?
What's your Wu Name?
Donovan --> Wu Name = Violent Knight
Methane47 --> Wu Name = Thunderous Leader
"Some people call me the walking plank, 'cuz any where you go... Death is right behind you.."
<i>ME<i>
Not necessarily, you are assuming that the rules of the reality we live in are the same in every reality. It is quite possible to concieve of a place in which matter of all kinds always existed, without a beginning source, places where matter could both be created or destroyed, and in fact are constantly being done so. In fact, its quite possible to concieve of a heaven quite like its described by various religions from a purely scientific approach.
No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.
Hemingway