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Why u (mmorpg.com) hate wow?
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I still disagree with the lore. I played all the warcraft games (yes, im a bit of a fanboy) and from the books i read in WoW that i remember, it all tied back in with the original 2 games and the lore they had. Im not sure if you ever played the first 2, but in their instruction books they had quite a bit of lore and background information. I personally didnt think it was that bad but that was back in the 90's.
are you saying that warcraft doesnt have any lore, or that WoW just doesn't do as good of a job informing the player about the world?
WoW has a strong impact on the gaming industry, perhaps the strongest any MMO could claim. Whether it is a "good" game, is for the most part irrelevant, since it's too subjective to whatever everyone is looking in a game. To say though that the gender will suffer because of WoW is naive, in my opinion. Lets face it, the next game people will want to play will need to have everything good their current has + more, sometimes alot more than what their current game offers. Look at the people in this forums. They dislike WoW because it does not have the x feature their old game had. Whatever comes after WoW will need to build upon it's legacy and expand. I doubt even Blizzard could make another WoW clone and sell the same way they did with WoW (why would somebody buy a Starcraft MMO for example if it plays the same as WoW?).
To dismiss the features WoW offered would not be a wise course for future developers. They need to build upon them, expand, include new ideas and polish them. Build upon the strengths of the gender, remove the weaknesses, add inovations, that's how things will progress. Starting from scratch is ... risky. People don't seem to want revolutionary gameplay, so many games with radical ideas have flopped. People seem to want evolution. Evolution may lead to different paths of course, but it is unwise to ignore the past knowledge.
Look at it this way. Would you respect a film director that produces films that please the critics or the audience?
It boggles me to think that a game has such a severe impact on somebody that he entertains such strong emotions as hate. Maybe it's the only gaming gender that has such an impact on players (perhaps due to the time commitment).
WoW has a strong impact on the gaming industry, perhaps the strongest any MMO could claim. Whether it is a "good" game, is for the most part irrelevant, since it's too subjective to whatever everyone is looking in a game. To say though that the gender will suffer because of WoW is naive, in my opinion. Lets face it, the next game people will want to play will need to have everything good their current has + more, sometimes alot more than what their current game offers. Look at the people in this forums. They dislike WoW because it does not have the x feature their old game had. Whatever comes after WoW will need to build upon it's legacy and expand. I doubt even Blizzard could make another WoW clone and sell the same way they did with WoW (why would somebody buy a Starcraft MMO for example if it plays the same as WoW?).
To dismiss the features WoW offered would not be a wise course for future developers. They need to build upon them, expand, include new ideas and polish them. Build upon the strengths of the gender, remove the weaknesses, add inovations, that's how things will progress. Starting from scratch is ... risky. People don't seem to want revolutionary gameplay, so many games with radical ideas have flopped. People seem to want evolution. Evolution may lead to different paths of course, but it is unwise to ignore the past knowledge.
Look at it this way. Would you respect a film director that produces films that please the critics or the audience?
If you read my post in this thread, you will see your response is basically a rebuke to mine. I will have to hand it to you you raise a very valid point and I hope you are correct. Bad thing is, the game development process takes forever and I will prob be more into wheelchair races than video games when we finally get the game the MMO GENRE deserves.
As for the books, you know everything that happened in the games didn't actualy happen teh way you played it because get this a dragon disguised an elf, an orc, a human went back in time (they should have all walked into a bar but I didn't write the joke that is the WC novels). They hung out with Furion, Illiadan and dragons dude past self who doesn't know he is and they like saved the world instead of letting the Night Elves do it themselves. Thus changing history forever. Now personaly I've seen better plots in porn movies but if thats the sort of thing that you can admit to enjoying, fine by me.
Paying attention to WoW lore is like watching the Mighty Morphing Power Rangers as an adult, it doesn't realy make sense, they keep bring back the villains, the acting is poor and everything seems to have homosexual overtones. That being said its probably great if your stoned
Bottom line, how many "original" games are out there? The kind that are alive and don't bleed to death?
People got some good ideas. Potential is there for alot of games (see how the closer games come to release, the more they drop in the hype meter?). Implementation is what's lacking.
So many games out there that tried to be original and forgot how to be fun. So many other games that their developers killed by trying to be original with their expansions.
I have the feeling the gender needs to learn to walk before it learns to run.
Oh, the QQ.
1. Blizzard is having "i dont care about 1 customer , i still have 7 000 999" policy.
Never before has a company so big shown such disrespect for its users.
2. WoW promotes solo play , all the way up to raiding - when it enforces it.
Both raiding and solo play - are horrible things in mmo
Except from that wow is great
"Before this battle is over all the world will know that few...stood against many." - King Leonidas
There...is...no...cabal.
I have played WoW for about 2 years now and loved every moment of it. The only reason I'm on this site right now is because my back hurts from sitting in the computer chair, and I'd rather lay back with a laptop (no WoW though, QQ). WoW is not my first MMO, I've played several others including EQ, EQ2, EvE, CoH/CoV, AO, and Ragnarok. Of all of these games, WoW has given me exactly what I have wanted. I enjoy it, so I play it.
My question is, there are numerous replies to this thread stating that "Oh yeah WoW is fun and all for a while, but it just doesn't have the depth that xxx had or it doesn't have the PvP like xxx had. Blizzard has no idea what they are doing," but why isn't anyone giving examples? In all honesty, I am genuinely intrigued as to what you are talking about. If there are games with these amazing PvP systems or incredible amounts of depth that Blizzard and the WoW community cannot comprehend... I'd like to know about them. I'd like to play a game that is better than WoW. I'd like better PvP, or deeper gameplay and immersion. So please, if you are indeed telling the truth and have the right to bash WoW, share the wealth with those who may want to play whatever it is you are playing or have played.
_________________
Arusaan - 60 Human Rogue Gorgonnash (retired)
Megadoss - 63 Troll Hunter The Forgotten Coast (retired)
Lifehand - 52 Undead Priest The Forgotten Coast (the new guy)
What will wind me up are religious hardcore WoW-fanbois who will respond to any criticism towards WoW (such as, I dunno, "the graphics are stylized and not realistic", or "it's too quest-based for me") with personal attacks and insults.
I don't hate WoW, I hate the "WoW > Your mmo" mentality.
Ok here are some examples, in Eve and Shadowbane (and a few other games) your guild/alliance/corp can claim land for themselves and enforce its boundaries and control its resrouces. Your guild isn't just a friends list with green text its an organisation that has an impact on the environment, on the geography on the play experience. When you PvP to defend such resources you are achieving something more than just grind. Further more theres risk for your reward. If you win you get to loot the enemy and feel satisfaction of having defended all that your guild has worked for. If you lose you get looted and your guild assets may get taken or destroyed. Alternativley you can go on the offensive and pillage an opponent weakening them or takeing their turf.
These systems also turn that guild bitching, posing and whineing into a gameplay element of their own. Sick of that guild badmouthing yours, well now you can do something about. Allied to another guild but not realy happy about it, backstab and defect to another alliance.
IMO thats infinitely better compared to WoW BG grind system where they stole FPS gameplay modes and took out the twitch skill and after a grinding each BG for a few days you can get a shiney peice of loot. Its a shame to, if they were actualy true to the WC franchise and had areas where you could build and destroy towns and villages it could actualy be a decent game for PvP.
edit: please do not turn this into a flame session either. Examples were asked for and I gave them, not everyone has to agree but you dont have to post about it. This thread is about clarifying why not everyone likes WoW and why alot of people are looking for something new.
Ok here are some examples, in Eve and Shadowbane (and a few other games) your guild/alliance/corp can claim land for themselves and enforce its boundaries and control its resrouces. Your guild isn't just a friends list with green text its an organisation that has an impact on the environment, on the geography on the play experience. When you PvP to defend such resources you are achieving something more than just grind. Further more theres risk for your reward. If you win you get to loot the enemy and feel satisfaction of having defended all that your guild has worked for. If you lose you get looted and your guild assets may get taken or destroyed. Alternativley you can go on the offensive and pillage an opponent weakening them or takeing their turf.
These systems also turn that guild bitching, posing and whineing into a gameplay element of their own. Sick of that guild badmouthing yours, well now you can do something about. Allied to another guild but not realy happy about it, backstab and defect to another alliance.
IMO thats infinitely better compared to WoW BG grind system where they stole FPS gameplay modes and took out the twitch skill and after a grinding each BG for a few days you can get a shiney peice of loot. Its a shame to, if they were actualy true to the WC franchise and had areas where you could build and destroy towns and villages it could actualy be a decent game for PvP. Thanks, this has given me a new view on EvE's PvP, although I still consider the game to be much too lonely and a little boring.
However, you don't need to bash my MMO in an exaggerated manner. My guild is not a list of names in green text. My guilds have been the top crafters, the best PvP team, the most skilled raiders. My guild has also been my friends and family. Guilds are the same in all MMO's, they are a group of players, and the players make the guild, not the game.
FPS gameplay modes stole from reality! Why would they put CTF in Unreal Tournament? I might as well be playing football. All games copy eachother. CTF and domination are fun game modes that I prefer killing in over an open field with no objectives as is seen in some games.
Oh well, I'm just making this already too long thread even longer.
However, if anyone else has good examples of better PvP systems or crafting and such, I'll still be interested. Keep in mind im not saying this in a "Pff, yeah... just try and show me something better" kind of attitude. I actually want to know.
_________________
Arusaan - 60 Human Rogue Gorgonnash (retired)
Megadoss - 63 Troll Hunter The Forgotten Coast (retired)
Lifehand - 52 Undead Priest The Forgotten Coast (the new guy)
Wouldn't worry about it, so many idiotic trolls on this forum.
I don't play WoW anymore, have moved on but I can appreciate why people like this game.
Just ignore the one line douche bags.
Now playing: VG (after a long break from MMORPGS)
Played for more than a month: Darkfall online, Vanguard SOH, Everquest, Horizons, WoW, SWG, Everquest II, Eve
Ok here are some examples, in Eve and Shadowbane (and a few other games) your guild/alliance/corp can claim land for themselves and enforce its boundaries and control its resrouces. Your guild isn't just a friends list with green text its an organisation that has an impact on the environment, on the geography on the play experience. When you PvP to defend such resources you are achieving something more than just grind. Further more theres risk for your reward. If you win you get to loot the enemy and feel satisfaction of having defended all that your guild has worked for. If you lose you get looted and your guild assets may get taken or destroyed. Alternativley you can go on the offensive and pillage an opponent weakening them or takeing their turf.
These systems also turn that guild bitching, posing and whineing into a gameplay element of their own. Sick of that guild badmouthing yours, well now you can do something about. Allied to another guild but not realy happy about it, backstab and defect to another alliance.
IMO thats infinitely better compared to WoW BG grind system where they stole FPS gameplay modes and took out the twitch skill and after a grinding each BG for a few days you can get a shiney peice of loot. Its a shame to, if they were actualy true to the WC franchise and had areas where you could build and destroy towns and villages it could actualy be a decent game for PvP. Thanks, this has given me a new view on EvE's PvP, although I still consider the game to be much too lonely and a little boring.
However, you don't need to bash my MMO in an exaggerated manner. My guild is not a list of names in green text. My guilds have been the top crafters, the best PvP team, the most skilled raiders. My guild has also been my friends and family. Guilds are the same in all MMO's, they are a group of players, and the players make the guild, not the game.
FPS gameplay modes stole from reality! Why would they put CTF in Unreal Tournament? I might as well be playing football. All games copy eachother. CTF and domination are fun game modes that I prefer killing in over an open field with no objectives as is seen in some games.
Oh well, I'm just making this already too long thread even longer.
However, if anyone else has good examples of better PvP systems or crafting and such, I'll still be interested. Keep in mind im not saying this in a "Pff, yeah... just try and show me something better" kind of attitude. I actually want to know.
Eve is what one calls a player driven game. The tools are there to have fun but it requires you to join with other players to make it fun. Its theoreticaly possible to go out in a game like that start your guild base and everyone around you in every reasonable travel distance is completely cool and there is zero confict and all you do is go around and do stuff.
As for your guild I wasn't bashing it and you missed the point. It is true that players make the guild but WoW does not empower the guild to act as anything else but a friends list and a chat channel, damn you can't even have a proper guild bank. All those things you mentioned are cool, I do most of them with my guild but I also do all those things on my friends list, and in my case my friends is better than my guild because it can draw on a larger pool of players, crafters and characters. Now in EvE, Shadowbane and to a much lesser extent CoX your guild can achieve stuff that a friends list cant. You can build bases and cities. You can share resources through guild banks. You can purchase NPCs. You can actualy go out and not merely consume content but create it.
As for WoW ripping off FPS games, well the sad thing is it takes an FPS game mode and removes the twitch. In a dozen games you should be close to peaking in that particular arena. While in a FPS you can constantly fine tune your reflexes the very gamestyle of WoW severly reduces such gain. As long as you know your class in PvP and can adjust to the game mode then there isn't much to learn. Its fun, and its cool, but for me and the majority of people I know the fun wheres off and your left with 2 options. Keep PvPing in a BG and grind your soul away or PvP and grief in the game world. PvPing in the gameworld is much more fun for us as it allows for more suprises, dirty tricks, uneven numbers and actualy focuses on killing players but it offers very little in the way of gain and you only cripple yourself since the game is designed around grinding gear. edit: +there is zero risk to counter the almost non-existant reward, a veteran only has two things on the line time and ego, the first isn't much of a penalty because your playing a grind MMO so your going to have time and the latter is not an issue to a mature player.
edit: I think the line I wrote earlier realy struck a cord. WoW is a game where you consume content and do little else. The player is never given much in the way of control and/or influance. You can consume but you can't shape or influance. The content is completely static, there is very little of an evolving storyline, no GM run events, no way to make a change to the gameworld. Your stuck doing what ever the developers want you to do and options are few and far between.
Although to be fair there seem to be similar amount of fanboys to haters in this forum and then you get a large percentage of people who don't like WoW or perfectly legit reasons and fear what its success will do to the MMO genre for equaly good reasons.
That must be darn hard to get: Blizzard realized that the vast majority of potential players are casual and core players, not the vets that spent their whole life bitching around with computer games since the mid 90s. Of course those people hate WoW because it changed their die-hard mmorpg hobby that involved politics, guild-lifes, crafting, creating and all kinds of geeky stuff to something Fred from around the corner did instead of playing table-tennis on saturday nights.
Get a grip, will ya?
Meridion
I don't hate WoW, I just get annoyed with people saying stuff like WoW is the greatest mmorpg ever. I find that quite insulting to people like myself who have played other mmorpgs and have generally preferred them, especially as WoW is quite different from the older mmorpgs. While the older mmorpgs may have dated graphics or dated gameplay, they did provide experiences which I just haven't found in WoW.
I'm also quite critical of the way WoW has done things, such a big name and so much talent and innovative game design is seemingly quite minimal. I'd say there is a lot more potential in WoW that has been tapped into, despite it getting such high audiences.
But having said all that, WoW is a decent game and I occasionally subscribe for a month, especially as I'm quite a Blizzard fan, WC3 is a game that I've probably spent hours in my past on and enjoy it from to time to time now, especially it's custom mods(Dota). And WoW is very similar with it's abilities, fun abilities and nice talent trees. Battlegrounds, while it gets it's criticisms, I do find enjoyable from time to time.
Umm I have absolutley no idea who the hell you are talking too or about, I don't think anyone in at least the last 2-3 pages has claimed to have done everything in WoW (although I can honestly say I have done everything I have wanted to do in WoW, but thats different). I don't even know why your bringing the casual vs hardcore element into it, I also dont recall seeing anything along these lines other than posts talking about difficulty which is completely different issue to time spent.
step 1: Take a deep breath
step 2: Find the quote feature.
its funny when people say 'I only spend 2-3 hours a day on it'. Not picking out the previous poster or anything, just people call this 'casual' yet do you play other games 2-3 hours a day, everyday? I would actually say WoW has pushed the boundary of contingent time use for many people, and what is defined casual, is in light of the people spending hours and hours on the games. I'd say 2-3 hours a day by gaming standards was light hardcore. Or maybe that is just me.
The members of this community have watched the genre go from a game like Asheron's Call with huge worlds, live events, deep character design and advancement.......to WoW which is the lowest common denominator of an MMO. Further more, the financial success of WoW has led to a trend of other developers following in the footsteps of Blizzard by almost literally copying and pasting WoW with some different graphics and trying to sell it over and over again. It deserves every bit of harsh criticism it gets here. If its too much for you to handle, you can stick to the official WoW boards and watch the pre-schooler's run wild.
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Yes, and what do you say when those "whiners" turn out to be entirely correct? The fact is, WOW has some serious failings. All games do to one degree or another. You can like the game and admit its weak points to yourself and others, come on now, just try it.While you're busy hating, people are having fun. And one day WoW will close it doors permenantly as no game will last forever, but will the former players be angry? Nope, they'll have fond memories of the times they raided, pvp'ed and hanged out with their buddies. Meanwhile, you continue hating, telling the players leaving WoW that you "told them so," but they'll merely smile and ask you what game did you play that had the most influence on your life and was able to impact the world the way WoW did.
You'll think for a moment of course and realize none of the MMORPGs were able to wrap you up tightly it's world and making your forget there was world out there. You'll realize too late that WoW was the game for and it offer everything you want, but you were to selfish to realize it. You want the game to be exclusive to your need and you totally forgot that game is trying to everyone else too. Think about it, every time a MMORPG cames out, you wanted that game to hold a candle to WoW, offer the same feeling as WoW did all while having content exclusive to you. WoW was the game that motivate you to play other games, even if it was out of sheer hatred. And with WoW dead, you have nothing else to hate and no motivation to go on and other games. And with WoW gone, other games will have nothing to aspire to, resulting even worser MMORPGs than we have now.
You don't have to play WoW, but you shouldn't have WoW. It's waste of time since it's just a game. Rather than lingering on the negative aspect of the game, try focusing on the good qualities and the happy times you had to continue motivating you to play MMORPGs and hope for the future that other gaming companies will do their best to keep the dream WoW started. What dream you ask? To bring haters and fanboys together under website and it's forums to discuss their opinions and ideas to give future developers something to strive for
Nice speech, too bad it doesn't apply at all bub
WOW offered nothing for me, from the very beginning I was highly disappointed, bored out of my mind, wanting to go back to Anarchy Online or one of the other niche games that actually did appeal to me, offered some challenge, and didn't look like I was playing inside a bloody cartoon. No, WOW was not the first MMORPG I played, no it did not inspire me in any way. And for the record, I tried it before I started frequenting forums like these and found out what the general opinion of WOW actually was.
What good times were you reffering to? Perhaps the time I spent adding to my ignore list, untill finally the chat channels were eerily silent, but at least not filled with highly childish comments. Perhaps the time I spent deciding over what skills and attributes would benifit me the most, that is to say none at all, since its decided for you. Or maybe the time I spent grinding mobs exactly one level lower than me, each mob of course being a slight variation of the last one I faced. Or perhaps the craptastic quests with their highly innovative and dynamic storylines, all requesting that I do something as simplistically retarded as going out to kill 10 more of the same stupic creatures I just got done grinding on.
Any developers looking to WOW for inspiration are taking a step backwards in development, the current harvest of MMORPGs proves that, nearly all of the games that were released since WOW were heavily "inspired" by it. Whenever a game comes out, I want it to have as little as possible in common with WOW, having niether the features, nor the massive crowd of immature subscribers.
No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.
Hemingway