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Why u (mmorpg.com) hate wow?
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You're quite bad about incorrect generalizations,...
What generalizations? What proof? Everything was erased. Your last post didn't have any evidence or numbers to back up your claims. You didn't prove it was most people's first game who were playing WoW because you based this on uncertified survey over the internet. You couldn't prove how many kids were playing WoW and somehow, your thousands of friends opinions superside the opinions of 8 million people.
You didn't prove anything that you and other hates have no real case and bash WoW for the hell of it.
The incorrect generalization in the above quoted post, the one where you say that I claim that "people hate or haven't played any other MMORPGs"
The proof of MMORPG population can easily be seen from MMOGchart and other sites, which in turn are taken from gaming companies own published information. That, and just about every single chart done on the subject confirms that a heck of a lot of people came into the genre at WOW's release that had never played any other game.
Actually, MMOGchart only estimates the number of people playing the game. Nowhere in MMOGchart does it say every player hasn't another game prior to WoW. You need to stop trolling and stop lying.
Incidently, I'm not talking about any of my "freinds", a significant portion of the people I mentioned as sources are quite happily playing WOW right this minute. Unlike you, they are quite willing to admit and talk about the poorer aspects of the game, including the community. In spite of this honesty to oneself and others, they enjoy the game regardless.
Dude, you talked to a couple of people here who hate the game and they don't speak for the majority of MMORPGers or WoW players, you're just embarassing yourself with each post trying pass off bias survey and opinions off as facts because you can't back up your claims with actual numbers nor can you back up your claims with case point facts. So just give it a rest already. At this point, you're just nothing more than trolling.
Those arguing that the lore sucks, need only look at WOWwiki and read the BOOKS explaining all the lore. These books are IN the game by the way. Many quests also explain all the lore. If you didn't read them, blame ignrance.
Those who call the game simplistic don't understand that those older, more complicated MMORPG were actually broken and imbalanced. Complex and broken doesn't make it better. Anyone who says that classes are simple are a joke. You could fit 3 or 4 classes from DAOC into one class in WOW. Case closed. WOW"s classes are actually waaaay more developed than previous games. UO required a few button presses in a fight and only a few builds were even viable to PvP with. In WOW, I have around 30 skills, items and abilites on my hotbars that I'd need access to in a potential fight and EVERY single class is viable in PvP and PvE. In DAOC I had 3 buttons that were useful on my Armsman. I won't include macros for /stick & /face
Those who say the quests are all simplistic, never did anything other than solo and certainly have not played TBC. I've done the quests from UO, to EQ to DAOC. WOW has the same thing, but in a huge quantity. If you think every quest is just kill X mobs, you're ignorant, plain and simple..
WOW isn't perfect but its just a better quality game in every way. Other MMORPGs allowed you to do more and effect the actual world, but when I think back, all that freedom did was complicate and break the game in more ways than it helped. Blizzard brought true quality in every aspect of the game, something other MMORPGs have lacked for a long time. Thats why I've enjoyed it so much more than other MMOGs.
Your not old you could hear all those bands constenly in and 90s And wow is a good game so many people dont like it couse there haters and its over priced.
Specs
AMD64 3.8 GHZ
Geforce 7800
1G R.A.M
50 G Hard Drive
Same, my thoughts as well.
And Aelfinn do yourself a favour, look to your right side of the screen.
Even if 20million peeps play wow it still is by far not even close a good mmo.
Its easy pvp sucks same old quest kill 10 of this 20 of these.
Its tailor made for simple minded masses who want easy game play with silly quests and grind grind grind same mobs over and over again.
main reason playing wow get best items stand in main citys and brag about how uber you are:P
Nothing a real hardcore can find in wow its for kids simple:P
WoW rating overall 6 out of 10.
But its succesfull true so its must be good muahahahha..........
Hope to build full AMD system RYZEN/VEGA/AM4!!!
MB:Asus V De Luxe z77
CPU:Intell Icore7 3770k
GPU: AMD Fury X(waiting for BIG VEGA 10 or 11 HBM2?(bit unclear now))
MEMORY:Corsair PLAT.DDR3 1866MHZ 16GB
PSU:Corsair AX1200i
OS:Windows 10 64bit
Well I think Aelfinn has just won the arguement in my opinion. He is able to concede the game is at good in some areas and that some - alot of people are happy with the game. If Lastera cannot even admit WoW has some serious flaws that are being overlooked by many of its players, then that just makes him one of the blind fanbois. You can look no further then Crafting, Housing and PVP.
Also as soon as Lastera has tried to pass the debate into a "you cant prove your point with 100% certainty" then Lastera lost from my viewpoint. I got news for ya bud, you cant prove your case with 100% certainty either. All your points are just opinions same as his. That doesnt mean the opinions are weighted equally however. There is alot of anectodotal evidence you can use to show that many people agree that WoW has flaws. All you have to do is ask top PVPers in WoW on any server. You will see that most are not perfectly happy. If you are hanging around people that say the game is perfect, then you are really hanging around some losers IMO. Because there are very few things in this world that are perfect.
Before you try to label me off as a WoW hater. I will just say right now that I like WoW and think its one of the best games OVERALL to date. Not the best (UO is still my favorite), but its up there. But I can like Aelfinn admit that WoW does have some serious design flaws. But then again what game doesnt?
I personally think one of the main reasons WoW is so popular, is percisely because its good in most areas. Not great mind you, but good - very good depending on your style. So how this turns into sales is because, casual people can be comfortable spending thier hard earned TIME and MONEY investing in the game, and know they they will probably feel they at least got some decent value out of the game, and didnt throw it away the first day the played it.
For example, me and my wife have grown to love Thai food. My wife parents visited and we recommended a Thai restaurant. After we all got our food, her parents couldnt eat a single thing. They hated it all. It ruined the entire evening. Lesson learned, when recommending something to someone or doing something special stick with a place that is "good" not necessarily great, but that is at least good standard. Something for everyone like Outback or some standard steakhouse.
This same concept applies to MMO's. I havent played Eve. I might think its the best game ever, but I honestly have a hard time trusting peoples opinions because they cant give honest opinions of stuff. I dont feel like wasting my time on a 3yr old game that I will probably not like. WoW on the other hand, I got 1yr of solid play out of it. I was happy I bought it, it was certainly worth the money.
Baseball alone, registered players over 12 million in the US, and thats not at all counting the people that simply like to go out and toss a ball every now and then.
WOW, 2 million US subscribers, with an indetermined number of people with dual accounts.
Sorry bub
No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.
Hemingway
Incorrect, your "demographics" is white male of age 12+ in Skokie, Illinois.
Besides, are we supposed to believe that you kept an accurate and unbiased accounting of everyone you ever met? And that everyone you did meet told you whether or not they pley WOW or baseball?
Do a web search for some real statistics
No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.
Hemingway
Geez why are people so stubborn and pull facts out of thier bum. Are you kidding? They play baseball, basketball and soccer in school. Tell me how many schools are playing WoW during PE. Just that fact alone means there are more people playing those sports then WoW. Let alone the facts that 50k people go to 1000's stadiums to watch these sports? Highschool, College, Professional? You might as well just admit you were making a generalization, and stop trying to defend this ridiculous statement.
You are 12yrs old and 50 people played a sport but not in the last 5yrs? So they were playing baseball, soccor and basketball from age 0-7yrs old? LOL who are you trying to fool here with that absurd comment. Yah like its a common fact that people usually play sports from age 0 to 7yrs old. Move along troll.
except that i honestly don't care what other people think is fun/is not fun. if a game is fun for me, i play it. if that game happens to be toontown or hello kitty: island adventure, then so be it!
because 10 million idiots think snorting freon is cool, doesn't mean that i'll ever have any inclination to ever even think about it. and um, i think a lot of casual players that i know, are ones that are majorly disappointed with wow, post 60, or post 60 times 2, 3, 4, 5, or 6 toons worth.
"end game"
this term exists because post-UO, devs became 1 lazy, 2 devious.
devious? find a way to make it addicting. people are creatures of habit... exploit it.
lazy? is there really anything easier for them to create than a raid?
i don't see dungeons and/or instances which dynamically change each time. i don't see wandering mobs with intelligent re-actions to players. i don't see many games with NICE graphics and a plethora of options ingame, thus negating a NEED for "end game" content.
yes, lazy.
so, i have friends that play 40+ hours a week online, and i have friends that play maybe 4 hours a week online. ones that have raided for years (before wow), and ones that have never raided. i have never yet had any of them say that 'raiding' is fun. ever.
so, honestly, i'm not sure of the factual basis for the above green-fonted statement. but i can tell you that dungeons/mobs/instances which require groups over 5, ARE something a lot of people dislike. and from my own irl/online circles of friends, i can say that without hesitation, that's a big negative for any game that we've tried.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
Time to get serious. I don't like WoW because it changes people into something nobody should be.. nobody should be worrying about their character, who cybered who, guild drama, etc. more than their family/friends. I have two friends that wake up, turn on their PC and play this game until they get tired. Whenever we do talk.. its now over Xfire, or IQC, they can't hold a conversation if its not about WoW..
Don't get me wrong, I think MMO's are great, I play them often myself.. but it just seems like WoW has had the largest impact on several people, and their parents should know when to pull the plug on their children, and take away the credit card.
Oh, and because the game is so overrated its almost unbelievable. Everything about it is just like any other MMO, except there is a huge community so people feel they should be playing.
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As you might have guessed I have played WoW and I still do. I enjoy it, its a good game in alot of areas and a bad one in alot of others. I put it on the same level as Halo. Halo was a standard Quake 2 style FPS with an average plot, average levels, standard weapons with average vehicles added in. It had some nice graphics, some excelent AI and it was fun split screen co-op, CTF and deathmatch. It was a fun game but not a great game. It wasn't even close to comparing with Half-Life, System Shock 2, Counter Strike, Deus Ex, Thief, Wolfenstien Enemy Territory, Quake 3, Tribes or Unreal Tournament but it was an ok game to muck around in. The same is true for WoW.
Again, you have no idea what you are talking about. Since when did a game have to have 8 millions players to be a success? I would say that an increase of 60% total population in 12 months is pretty much "bigger and better".
You also have to consider that WOW also cost the most to make, it may also cost the most to run... who know's! Some MMORPG's may start making a profit at 10,000 players, who are you to say that they are failures because another MMORPG simply has more?
Making a profit is generally a success in most developers eyes. Eve, UO, AC were all profitable, and thus successful. Logic works wonders, you should try it some time.
+1 for trolling +1 for wow fanboism
Again, another shining example that you know nothing of what you are talking about.
Firstly, AC1 has ONE FFA PVP server. It can hardly be classified as a "hardcore mmorpg pvp with looting" considering a majority of the servers are consentual PVP. Furthermore, AC is 7+ years old and hardly relevant to this argument, considering it has already been proven successful.
Secondly, EVE, a "niche" MMORPG is on track to have a higher population that both EQ and EQ2 by the end of the year. And considering it's one of a only small number of MMORPG's with a steady increase in numbers over the past 12 - please explain to me how it is a "critical failure".
Let's get one thing strait. The concept that WOW is an average to below average mmorpg and deemed not hardcore because it has a somewhat weak story line and simple gameplay is the consensus of a minority of players, new, old, young, woman, man, child alike. That means that the majority of players who played uo ten years ago think that WOW is better than the current mmorpg. This includes EQ, DAOC, etc. etc. All these player who migrated fromt his game to WOW, or a majority of them anyways, believe that WOW is currently top notch, as in it does the best of everything. Granted there is a large minority of people who disagree but even this large minority is a minority of minorities. You cannot sit here and discuss how wow's storyline and certain elements are weak, when fact dictates they are indeed very strong. Thing of it this way. The players that support a game can be quantified and turned into vectors. If you compare the vector of world of warcraft to the vector of vangaurd, warcraft > vangaurd.
Now you are perfectly respected and allowed to discuss your opinion but keep in mind that your normative and positive statements will be differentiated by me so that people looking to actually buy a fun game will have all the correct info.
As it stands WOW is literally a 10/10 big mega hit blockbust game that will go down in history,and no legitimate gamer can ever pass an opportunity to be apart of that.
First off you don't know what blizzard is planning
Blizzard in my eyes is the best game company ever. They make games for gamers by gamers. They take into consideration everything not just the story. Vangaurd faile don this. It failed to consider that most gamers have already bought new pc and that the next gen of mmorpgs should actually bring graphics down a notch and gameplay up a notch. Vangaurd does neither.
I really think that the graphics are moving too fast and the game play too slow, once again evidence of this vangaurd.
I'm not a blizzard fanboy. I play mmorpgs at most 4 hours a week and spend the rest studying and working so for me WOW is a godsend. And you can bet i'm the majority of people. Am I saying that what the majority of people do is the right or better thing? No of course not, but wow isn't a philosophical or a conceptual dillemma that even lends itself to that argument. By making that statement you are missing fundamental principles of logic. You cannot say a chair is sad. You could but no matter how many times yous ay it the chair will never be sad. In a similar way you cannot say that wow is a good game because lots of people play it. That is backwards azzz logic. The cause is the game and the effect are the people. Not the other way around. Jesus people, 8 million people play it cause it's a bloody good game, it's not a bloody good game because 8 million people play. This isn't even the inverse of that statement. Philosophically speaking the inverse would be this: X amount play because wow is good. The inverse is not wow is good because x amount plays.
LOGIC
Third GRade
and Division is all you need to know to prove mathmatically philosophically and conceptually that wow is number one overall and that to take apart game is like taking apart a beautiful woman. She might have a funny looking clitoris but she's lip smacking gorgeous regardless.
A) I'm not a kid
C) You seem to think that i have something to do with millions of players loving a game...I don't and if you think that posts like the one above actually get people to play it your even less intelligent. In fact if someone read my post they would most likely not play. Which is awsome cause people like me post all the time yet there are still millions of people playing.
Like I said...the game was made first and then the players played, the players didn't play to make the game.
There is a disproportionate anti-WoW sentiment on MMORPG.COM because:
1) Veteran mmorpg players find WoW lacking in depth.
2) MMORPG.COM has a relatively high percentage of veterans as members. Neophytes tend to play not post.
3) Players that like WoW are playing WoW not posting about it.
4) More people have played WoW than any other mmorpg. More people means more praisers and more complainers.
C) I don't think you have much to do with the people playing and maybe some of them loving the game. The rest of C) is kind of hard to make sense of so I will ignore it.
Then you obviously dont like PVP because unlike WoW mortal combat, tekken, etc. actually has a real combat system instead of the joke combat system that most MOGS happens to be where you ultimate goal is to push button X a billion times until you build your character then let the automated system fight for you.
I played WoW and became bored because the PVP sucked and no AI on earth can hold my interest. Couple that with a pathetically automated combat system and well the game just was not fun. AI have never provided a challenge for me in any game. This is why I exclusively play multiplayer games. When I had a Atari, a NES, etc. I never liked the single player games after I grew up enough where the scripting was too predictable.
All of the current games are made for those people who are achievers. That isnt me. I want interesting combat. So go ahead call me a whiner, griper, etc. because I dont like a game you enjoy I really dont give a Fook. I only dislike WoW, EQ, DAoC because they stiffel innovation and when successful means less games are going to be interesting. Only the huge companies can make quality MOGs and they are not risk takers. The more successful achiever games like WoW on the market the less that might actually appeal to me. I am glad you enjoy WoW I hope you keep enjoying WoW but I am rooting for a game to come along that isnt so static as WoW, has player run kingdoms, a real combat system that requires more then just push button X, has player housing, and a good economic game.
What I hate most about WoW is it made instancing successful. Instancing ruins the game for me. Plus I love competitive little mini games put in that encourage player vrs player. M59 was the most creative in this regard and I would like one of the new bountiful games to follow along its lines. Its a shame that game has horrid graphics and too easy to cheat on. I want a new quality version which is a combination of UO, M59, and a fighter game like Tekken. But hey that doesn’t mean I am whining or hate a game for casual players. I dont even know what the f'ing hell that is. I hate games that require tedious long term character building. Building a character should take someone who doesnt play a lot no more then 6 months to build to MAX.
The interesting aspects of the game should come from a good combat system and interesting mini-games and quest that are about more then collect 20 rats. The one thing I like about WoW is how fast it is to build a character. Even with that I dont think its a game built for a "casual player". The end game in WoW requires much more then casual players and is static and uniteresting. I dont like character building I like end games and I hate raiding against NPC as an end game. Sure put it in the game but dont do it the way they are now. Make the raids about more then hitting button X and fighting add actual real complex quest.
The cool thing about M59 end game is that a casual player could easily help out with it so long as they joined up with the right people. Regardless of what people say the end game in WoW is not made for the casual player. Obviously the people saying that have little experience playing MOG’s.