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This game sadly won't touch WoW
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Member UncommonPosts: 602
First off, let me say that i'm not a WoW fanboy... I was actually really looking forward to WAR but after reading the last preview from gamespy, I must say that i'm extremely disapointed in how this game is coming along.
The bits which left me pretty disapointed were the classes and how they were going to work. From what I can gather, each race will have four classes, Melee dps, Ranged dps, Melee healer and Tank. I will use the empire as an example.. the Melee dps sounds actually really cool being a hunter but the ranged dps is a fire mage.. sure it's not bad but having just fire spells sounds a bit boring after a while. The tank I don't know much about but the melee healer sounds quite boring that you have to hit things to be able to heal. There also won't be any buff classes nor crowd control ones and I also find it strange that there isn't an archer class for the empire at least.
Now correct me if i'm wrong but i'm sure Mythic planned on luring the PvP orientated players away from WoW and I know for a fact that's what EA wants so why are they leaving the classes so shallow? The firemages for example aren't going to even touch the depth that the mages have in WoW nor does it look like the Melee healers will attract the conventional priests/healers. The combat, variety and the sheer perfection of different classes WoW had is what I believe made it so popular (along with the way you level ofcourse) and if Mythic don't try and at least sort this area out, they won't ever steal players from WoW. How many of you WoW mages are excited to play the firemage in this? As a mage I sure as hell am not.
Ofcourse this might be due to the warhammer license and trying to keep it as true to the warhammer universe but would you really sacrifice this for depth? On another note, the ingame combat videos i've seen so far look pretty boring. Ofcourse a lot of you will claim that the chars don't have many moves but would you really advertise a game with all the fun taken out of it? I sure as hell know EA wouldn't.
I hope my concerns are shortlived and the game wipes the floor with WoW but as it stands, I can only see this game being a 7.0 one IE: has a lot of great features but doesn't go the extra distance to become an instant success.
Comments
By the time this game release, peoples will be tired of the Burning Crusade expansion; and seeing all the same flaws happen over again, 25 peoples instead of 40 doesn't improve the game much.
And WAR will be innovative, in NA, WAR will be #1 for sometimes not that far after it hit release; mostly because WoW will lose a LOT of players, but WAR won't do bad in itself...
I used to think WAR would do near 1 million subs, but now, with all the things they do, I have to revised this to about 700k; maybe a little less. Yet, WoW will decline significantly and WAR will bypass it in NA. Hopefully I am wrong and WAR would still get 1 million subs or near...but...they make many, arguable design decision...like mixing races a LOT...in PvE sure...but in PvP? Errrr...breaking such rules for PvE grouping, sure, players will even be happy about it...but PvP should have a Warhammer feeling...and races doesn't mix much...anyway, my opinion; but if a Khorne-player (not playable) would group with a spellcaster in PvE, almost nobody would cry...but in PvP...it doesn't feel right...heck even Chaos undivided doesn't work IMO in PvP from a Warhammer RPG point of view...but that is my opinion.
At least, this is what I expect from my understanding of the market. BC will hurt WoW more than it will help it in the long term, as players will see that the game isn't going to improve. WAR promise that the players will be completely free from raiding; I just hope Mythic won't "Brad" us with that, I hope they know what they are doing and won't shaft us by doing something as worse as raiding...
What I have no idea atm, is WAR longevity, it all depend on if the devs lies and scams the players or if they are honest and what they say please the player base in general.
Mixing Chaos with orcs/DE is still their worst mistake up to now...It is a RPG, they should be aware of the setting of the rpg more than the setting of the boardgames. But I am not there to lecture them, they are able to make very nice stuff as well.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Secondly WAR will finally be a true 3rd gen MMO. It will have completely diferent gameplay mechanic.
Also I am afraid it is designed directly to topple WoW -
The game will be much more flowing, faster and more fun. PvP will be meaningful and instead of few battlegrounds in WoW
You will have plethora of Battlegrounds with diferent missions.
But will it touch WOW...surelly
WOW is getting old. I play on a brand new server - and it is tottaly empty. It takes to fast to reach end levels in wow.
And the game is out for 2 years. Most of the people simply played it to death few times. They really need a change
"Before this battle is over all the world will know that few...stood against many." - King Leonidas
Well, players in BC are going to max level pretty soon if it isn't already done...and then see they have to restart raiding all again from scratch. Which will displease the raiders, the peoples who don't raid that doesn't want to see again this unfairness happening again.
BC is about to start crippling WoW. Raising the level cap is prolly the only good thing they do in BC, but 10 levels that are earned that fast and then crashing in the raiding wall again...WoW won't have 1/4 of its subs in NA by the end of the year; but they won't start losing most of these players until the 7th or 8th month, and they will see heavy AoC and WAR advertising...
Players wait for 3 years to gain 10 levels and new raiding? They will earn these levels too fast and be in an identical resetted raiding-situation, knowing it would take about 3 more years for more levels and a total new reset...They won't accept that. The outrage shall start be hearded soon.
WAR main success will be...PvE. PvP will attract a lot of players too, but Mythic will have to deal with a PvE majority...I am pretty sure of that, PvP players will tend to lean toward AoC...There will be more PvP players in WAR then there was ever in DAoC, they will just be less numerous then their PvE counterpart.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Well, players in BC are going to max level pretty soon if it isn't already done...and then see they have to restart raiding all again from scratch. Which will displease the raiders, the peoples who don't raid that doesn't want to see again this unfairness happening again.
BC is about to start crippling WoW. Raising the level cap is prolly the only good thing they do in BC, but 10 levels that are earned that fast and then crashing in the raiding wall again...WoW won't have 1/4 of its subs in NA by the end of the year; but they won't start losing most of these players until the 7th or 8th month, and they will see heavy AoC and WAR advertising...
Players wait for 3 years to gain 10 levels and new raiding? They will earn these levels too fast and be in an identical resetted raiding-situation, knowing it would take about 3 more years for more levels and a total new reset...They won't accept that. The outrage shall start be hearded soon.
WAR main success will be...PvE. PvP will attract a lot of players too, but Mythic will have to deal with a PvE majority...I am pretty sure of that, PvP players will tend to lean toward AoC...
phff I hit 70 1 week after release and I am already looking for new games. BC was fun, but you need to be in a guild that does all the end game content to enjoy it.
Sigh... I wish darkfall would beta start up already.
First off, let ME say that coming from someone with over 2400 hours spent playing WoW, saying that you're not a fanboy rings false in my ears. But hey, maybe you're just really, really...really bored.
But more importantly, I don't see how you can say that WAR's main success will be PVE? If you read anything that the Devs have written or watch any of the videos that they're putting out, they screaming PvP. To quote one of the designers of WAR: "It's no good coming to our game if you're trying to grow wheat. It's no good coming to our game if you want to make pants. It's only worth coming to our game if you want to burn things to the ground, grind things to dust, stand on top of the battlements waving severed heads at people, going "We're better than you!" in lots of glorious ways."
In any case, do you think the rock-paper-scissors that is WoW PvP is somehow deeper than WAR PvP/RvR? I certainly don't know, because I haven't had the privilage to try WAR yet. I will say, however, that knowing Mythic, they're not going to slack on the PvP. Most likely, it's going to rock many, many flavors of hard, tasty ass. And I, for one, cannot wait to sink my teeth into said ass.
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The above post is purely my opinion. If you disagree, that's your right. However, don't be an ass about it.
Did you even read my post? I never mentioned anything about pve and said that Mythic will be wanting to get some of the pvpers of WoW... the old school UO players and such. Also the rock-paper-scissors is some stupid theory and absolutely no truth to it. My main concern with WAR is the fact that the classes doesn't hold the same amount of depth that WoW has and how I feel it could certainyl cripple the game. WoW players want to move to something better but do mages who want to be human want fire only spells? Do healers want to bash people with weapons to heal? The main thing which has kept me playing WoW all this time is just how detailed each class is and how fun the combat can be. If WAR can't emulate/better this, I fail to see how this won't be just another vanguard (high hopes of stealing WoW fanbase but ultimately fails.)
Also I can see why you might think i'm a fanboy but I would be the first one to flame blizzard about the direction they're taking WoW. If it wasn't for the addictive combat, i'd have quit after my rogue got mauled by tier 1 epics.
on another note, the whole mixing classes thing, there wouldn't be a point to making an order/ disorder and not having them fight with each other, and it will also allow players to play with friends who dont want to be the same race.
You say that the WoW mage looks more fun then the Bright Wizard, you probably say that because you think it's boring to only be able to use fire. Well, you know what, it's WAR, you should blow things up. IMHO it's better to have 20 different ways to blow someone up, then to have 20 spells that do the same but look different. And as each race will have some kind of 'mage' you can just choose another, if you're bored of fire, play a magus, or a Goblin Shaman, or a Dwarf Runepriest, or one of the Elven mages that aren't revealed yet. I think it's better to have 6 different kinds of mages that each has their own unique way of killing others, then have 1 mage that can do all.
About the healing, did you watch the video Paul Barnett (
The Illuminati Gaming Society
Not a WoW fanboi?
Then why do you have almost 2500 WoW gaming hours?
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WAR looks AWESOME!
Give Blood....Play Rugby!
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While leveling up in the 63-65 instances, in a 5 man dungeon we didint have a warrior we had a tank spec pally and my pet (hunter) and we tanked the mobs just fine. On another occasion we had a feral druid as tank and shadow priest as healer (vamp embrace FTW).
Feral druids, shadow priests and dmg spec warriors and tank spec pallys are more welcome in guilds now.
Will these combos work in 10-15-25 man dungeons i dont know. But TBC did away with the rule that you needed atleast 1 tank warrior and 1 holy priest in a group.
As to WAR i always play a ranger class (no magic range pls) so looks like my options for picking a side/class are very limited.. which i dont like.
Have you played WoW? Do you understand how the mages work? There are Fire, Ice and Arcane magic spells.. the fire usually causes dots and can stun, ice slows them down and can freeze them in place and arcane.. well looks pretty. You also have the ability to sheep, blink and teleport plus create ice shields amongst other things.
So Paul Barnett's excuse for not giving the classes more depth is that because it's WAR? Well if that's the case, I really don't think WAR will do that well in the end and be alongside other titles which have failed to steal WoW customers. Having said this, I really do want WAR to succeed but the more info coming out for it, the worse it sounds.
we really dont know what depth each class will have at this point.
i wouldnt want to compare until we have more information. If daoc is any indication ( which wow copied in the first place, and rightfully so) each class will have a great diversity of moves, abilities and specializations.
"There's no rock paper scissors in WoW!"
LOL! Yeah right. Get to level 70 IMO. You can't judge WoW from your level 30 paladin. You obviously can't have a end-game character, you're too naive. Mage beats warrior, warrior beats rogue, rogue beats mage. Rinse, repeat.
"There's not enough depth!~!"
From what we've heard, no. But you know what? WE DON'T KNOW EVERYTHING. There is going to be oh-so-much more into the game then what we have heard. They're not going to spill out everything to us. And frankly, game devs usually suck at playing so they wouldn't know.
"LOL IM A FANBOI"
I agree with you there.
Have you played WoW? Do you understand how the mages work? There are Fire, Ice and Arcane magic spells.. the fire usually causes dots and can stun, ice slows them down and can freeze them in place and arcane.. well looks pretty. You also have the ability to sheep, blink and teleport plus create ice shields amongst other things.
So Paul Barnett's excuse for not giving the classes more depth is that because it's WAR? Well if that's the case, I really don't think WAR will do that well in the end and be alongside other titles which have failed to steal WoW customers. Having said this, I really do want WAR to succeed but the more info coming out for it, the worse it sounds.
Yes I have played WoW.
Have you played WAR? Nope you haven't, how then do you know how much depth the classes have, you purely base it on the fact that the Bright Wizard only has fire spells. Unlike in WoW that doesn't have to mean that the only thing the Wizard can do is DoT and stun.
You didn't read well what I said, it's not that this being WAR is the excuse for not giving the classes more dept, it's the excuse for not having gay elven mages, who are scared to break a fingernail, standing at the back, healing others. (Don't get me wrong, I like elves
The Illuminati Gaming Society
I'm not going back to WoW because of the blatant marketting. If I go back, I'll go back when Northrend is released and the amount of instancing will keep me busy with new content for at least a month or two.
As for WAR, which this part of the forums is supposed to be about. As long as they get the Warhammer feel going(Please please please make good character animations for the humans and elves... I do not want to be BLOCKMAN), and the PvP is ALL THAT, I'm not seeing how it won't be a success. The OP is talking about healing classes, but as far as I know WAR healing classes will not be straightforward healers at all, support at most. Anyone making doomsday posts at this point will have to base their comments on pre-alpha footage and anyone making prophetic wow-killer comments will be doing the same
Well, players in BC are going to max level pretty soon if it isn't already done...and then see they have to restart raiding all again from scratch. Which will displease the raiders, the peoples who don't raid that doesn't want to see again this unfairness happening again.
BC is about to start crippling WoW. Raising the level cap is prolly the only good thing they do in BC, but 10 levels that are earned that fast and then crashing in the raiding wall again...WoW won't have 1/4 of its subs in NA by the end of the year; but they won't start losing most of these players until the 7th or 8th month, and they will see heavy AoC and WAR advertising...
Players wait for 3 years to gain 10 levels and new raiding? They will earn these levels too fast and be in an identical resetted raiding-situation, knowing it would take about 3 more years for more levels and a total new reset...They won't accept that. The outrage shall start be hearded soon.
WAR main success will be...PvE. PvP will attract a lot of players too, but Mythic will have to deal with a PvE majority...I am pretty sure of that, PvP players will tend to lean toward AoC...There will be more PvP players in WAR then there was ever in DAoC, they will just be less numerous then their PvE counterpart.
.................................................................................................................................................I can agree with most everything you have said here but your observation on war is flawed if you are thinking that WAR success will be PVE lol.WAR is a RVR-PVP-PVE mmorpg,sure you can lvl through PVE but everything you do will have something to do with RVR conflict.
Thinking that Mythic will bow down to the PVE crowd is ridiculus as they have built WAR around GW(Games Workshop)you no that company that bought Warhammer to the world from UK.Unlike wow WAR is about WAR an endless war not some PVE grindfeist with both sides helping collecting mats to open a silly instance lol where is the WAR in that.
War is everywhere and buy the time you get to high-end content you will be playing 80%RVR-PVP and thats a fact.
Dont take my word for it though...
maestro.mythicentertainment.com/trk/click
where did you manage to see the skills that a bright wizard can chose? i think you're being very premature here.
oh, and WAR isnt a WoW killer, it was never ment to be one. WAR is WAR, WoW is WoW.
First off a EXTREMELY cocky "flame me" thread name. Second of all, there's no way we can tell how the classes are going to work from now. The game has a long time left on it's working desk so I bet there's some form of character differences!
Why are you saying this game won't have anything on WoW? It already display a much deeper and involving PvP system!? WoW will never have even something remotely as close or engageing! Ever. They also will never have orcs that are COOL
$OE lies list
http://www.rlmmo.com/viewtopic.php?t=424&start=0
"
And I don't want to hear anything about "I don't believe in vampires" because *I* don't believe in vampires, but I believe in my own two eyes, and what *I* saw is ******* vampires! "
No game will touch WOW in terms of subscriberss :P
For me however, i'm sick of WOW and need a new mmorpg and this looks like the only good upcoming one for 2 years.
If you want a real harsh death penalty, go play Russian Roulet. - Hamzal
$OE lies list
http://www.rlmmo.com/viewtopic.php?t=424&start=0
"
And I don't want to hear anything about "I don't believe in vampires" because *I* don't believe in vampires, but I believe in my own two eyes, and what *I* saw is ******* vampires! "