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SOE Botches Another Game...

(Taken from my posting on the Official VG boards)



Honestly I've been in denial about this game since Sigil decided to partner up with SOE, whom a lot of the gaming community has come to refer to as the "Almighty wielders of the nerf bats..." From Sony's name all over the game, as well as the forums, to the install folders for God sake! I had too much respect for Sigil to think they would let Sony take the reigns of a game that was in development for so long. I was hoping Sigil wouldn't let Sony the babysitter throttle their baby, but alas I was wrong. It appears Sony has done it again, as this last "emergency patch" was overriden with nerfs, raising the costs of combat abilities unecessarily, nerfing various classes and statistics like defense and damage mitigation, making an already solo-unfriendly game to another one of those "standing in town LFG for hours on end" types of games, a word of advice, most people don't want to play a game where half their game time is spent in town looking for groups. One would think fixing the problems with game functionality would be their first priority.



I had such high hopes for this game as did a lot of my close friends from other games that were going to migrate over to this game with me in the upcoming months, at least now I can tell them to save their money. I log onto my warrior whom I've already invested easily 100 hours into trying to make money and buy armor to raise my defense and mitigation in preparation for the daunting task of leveling a warrior, a "tank" class primarily solo. Upon logging in I get to see all my effort and time invested to upgrade my gear has been for nothing, as before this patch I was able to to solo mobs 2-3 levels lower than me in groups of 2-3 reasonably well, with little downtime, only to get back on the game after the patch and have the EXACT same mobs almost kill me. Seeing as how my mitigation means nothing now, and that it will be nigh impossible to level my warrior up solo at this point, I'll likely be moving on to the next game and bringing my close friends here and from other games with me. I hope Sigil learns their lesson, their heart was in the right place, but I suppose everyone has a price...



Anyone else that is of the same mentality please feel free to post your thoughts to save others like us in the gaming community the unecessary frustration.
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Comments

  • grapegrape Member Posts: 191

    I fear the mmorpg bug zapper is charging up to full power for this one..

    Penny Arcade cracks me up

  • redelf07redelf07 Member Posts: 156
    Originally posted by grape


    I fear the mmorpg bug zapper is charging up to full power for this one..
    Penny Arcade cracks me up
    INC massive Vangaurd fans, ready and able to shut this thread down.









    HEY! THANKS FOR POSTING ANOTHER I HATE MY LIFE AND VANGUARD AT THE SAMETIME THREAD!! It helped us all enjoy life a little less. GG

    image
    E8400@ 4.0Ghz ~ Saphire HD 4870 ~ 6GB DDR2@ 860MhZ

  • NevarionNevarion Member Posts: 274
    Say what? I thought there aint any "official" VG forums but fansite hosted ones in sort of `"cooperation"? Also you invested by now easily 100 hours? I'm amazed... and creeped.
  • This is a Sigil game, designed by Sigil and MARKETED by SOE.

    So what does SOE have to do with your problems with it?

    SOE did not do the nerfs you speak of, SIGIL did.

  • ValorusValorus Member Posts: 235
    Originally posted by Darksolitude

    (Taken from my posting on the Official VG boards)



    Honestly I've been in denial about this game since Sigil decided to partner up with SOE, whom a lot of the gaming community has come to refer to as the "Almighty wielders of the nerf bats..." From Sony's name all over the game, as well as the forums, to the install folders for God sake! I had too much respect for Sigil to think they would let Sony take the reigns of a game that was in development for so long. I was hoping Sigil wouldn't let Sony the babysitter throttle their baby, but alas I was wrong. It appears Sony has done it again, as this last "emergency patch" was overriden with nerfs, raising the costs of combat abilities unecessarily, nerfing various classes and statistics like defense and damage mitigation, making an already solo-unfriendly game to another one of those "standing in town LFG for hours on end" types of games, a word of advice, most people don't want to play a game where half their game time is spent in town looking for groups. One would think fixing the problems with game functionality would be their first priority.



    I had such high hopes for this game as did a lot of my close friends from other games that were going to migrate over to this game with me in the upcoming months, at least now I can tell them to save their money. I log onto my warrior whom I've already invested easily 100 hours into trying to make money and buy armor to raise my defense and mitigation in preparation for the daunting task of leveling a warrior, a "tank" class primarily solo. Upon logging in I get to see all my effort and time invested to upgrade my gear has been for nothing, as before this patch I was able to to solo mobs 2-3 levels lower than me in groups of 2-3 reasonably well, with little downtime, only to get back on the game after the patch and have the EXACT same mobs almost kill me. Seeing as how my mitigation means nothing now, and that it will be nigh impossible to level my warrior up solo at this point, I'll likely be moving on to the next game and bringing my close friends here and from other games with me. I hope Sigil learns their lesson, their heart was in the right place, but I suppose everyone has a price...



    Anyone else that is of the same mentality please feel free to post your thoughts to save others like us in the gaming community the unecessary frustration.



    Maybe you think one shot killing is fun.  Maybe you think running from point A to the other side of the world, point B in 3 seconds is fun, but there are many more out there that play games for the challenge. 

    I'd suggest you go back and read the FAQ.  It's been stated so many times that the game is meant to be hard and lets face it there are a lot of classes right now that make the game a cake walk.

    Your not going to change anything so either embrace it as they are trying to stick to plan or do what your doing and scream and kick and yell foul.  Either way the game marches on and your stuck having to learn to play the game the way it was meant to be played.  Guess 0 to 50 for you in 4 weeks is out of the questionnow.

  • PkpiePkpie Member CommonPosts: 18
    I agree with Darksolitude.  I want my money back.  Bought the game with a visa and will see about returning it, then most likely disputing the charges as the game fails to work as advertised.  At least it crashes all the time and gives us an excuse to return it.
  • nokturnisnokturnis Member Posts: 64
    Get over it already SOE is not developing Vanguard there billing period.
  • nynnivanynniva Member UncommonPosts: 235

    You know, I don't want zero to 50 in four weeks.
    I don't even care if I make 50 in four months.
    I got this game with the full intent to give it a year or more of my life.

    But I *would* like to be able to play it.

    And I *don't* want to spend that year of my life standing in town looking for a team.
    I don't have the playtime for that.

    You want to start us scattered across the world with no way to reach each other? Fine.
    But let us level up to the point where we CAN meet up with the friends that are trying the game with us without having to rely on pickup groups in the starter town. Some races starting areas are very isolated.

    I don't WANT this game to be easy. Since every class gets the same skills based on level rather than skill level or any sort of decision making, having the game be challenging is the only thing that will keep it fun.

    Forced grouping though? I mean, give an XP penalty to solo players, or scale group xp to the point that its so much better than solo that solo isn't an option unless, like me, you just don't have the time to dedicate to /lfg. But don't make solo impossible. Better yet, if you're going to make solo impossible and there's no way around that, then adjust the classes in the beta phases - not post release when the game has so many other problems. For example, half the time I couldn't team if I wanted to, because my character doesn't exist. I have to relog repeatedly until I show up as "online" to people, and until I do, I can't join groups, or chat, or do much of anything else. In a game that forces you to group, thats a pretty big problem. Hundreds of paying customers can't log in at all. These are important issues that need to be addressed. Class nerfs were not needed at this time.

    Gaming? That's not gaming!
    That's just people sat 'round in costumes drinking...

  • BarenMordeganBarenMordegan Member Posts: 6

    I also had high hopes for VG.  After this patch my confidence in the devs (i dont care if its sigil or SOE) has been shaken.  I am also a warrior, even before this nerf patch I still had a good bit of trouble soloing, but now, wow, I can't solo anything. 

     

    I realize the flames towards this post are "What did you expect, an easy game?"  But honestly, with a world so massive and so little of a population, it really is extremely difficuilt to find anyone to group with.  Even if you do find a group, usually they are half retarded and end up wiping.  Anything that Smedly is able to fuck up, fucks up, wether SOE is developing it or not, this game is fucked beyond beleif after this patch.  Unless they unfuck what they fucked up tonight, I see this game ending up like SWG.  Im not one for crying, I love a nice challenge in a game, but sheesh.  Between the bugs and the new nerf patch, its damn near impossible.

  • grapegrape Member Posts: 191
    Originally posted by Valorus

    Originally posted by Darksolitude

    (Taken from my posting on the Official VG boards)



    Honestly I've been in denial about this game since Sigil decided to partner up with SOE, whom a lot of the gaming community has come to refer to as the "Almighty wielders of the nerf bats..." From Sony's name all over the game, as well as the forums, to the install folders for God sake! I had too much respect for Sigil to think they would let Sony take the reigns of a game that was in development for so long. I was hoping Sigil wouldn't let Sony the babysitter throttle their baby, but alas I was wrong. It appears Sony has done it again, as this last "emergency patch" was overriden with nerfs, raising the costs of combat abilities unecessarily, nerfing various classes and statistics like defense and damage mitigation, making an already solo-unfriendly game to another one of those "standing in town LFG for hours on end" types of games, a word of advice, most people don't want to play a game where half their game time is spent in town looking for groups. One would think fixing the problems with game functionality would be their first priority.



    I had such high hopes for this game as did a lot of my close friends from other games that were going to migrate over to this game with me in the upcoming months, at least now I can tell them to save their money. I log onto my warrior whom I've already invested easily 100 hours into trying to make money and buy armor to raise my defense and mitigation in preparation for the daunting task of leveling a warrior, a "tank" class primarily solo. Upon logging in I get to see all my effort and time invested to upgrade my gear has been for nothing, as before this patch I was able to to solo mobs 2-3 levels lower than me in groups of 2-3 reasonably well, with little downtime, only to get back on the game after the patch and have the EXACT same mobs almost kill me. Seeing as how my mitigation means nothing now, and that it will be nigh impossible to level my warrior up solo at this point, I'll likely be moving on to the next game and bringing my close friends here and from other games with me. I hope Sigil learns their lesson, their heart was in the right place, but I suppose everyone has a price...



    Anyone else that is of the same mentality please feel free to post your thoughts to save others like us in the gaming community the unecessary frustration.



    Maybe you think one shot killing is fun.  Maybe you think running from point A to the other side of the world, point B in 3 seconds is fun, but there are many more out there that play games for the challenge. 

    I'd suggest you go back and read the FAQ.  It's been stated so many times that the game is meant to be hard and lets face it there are a lot of classes right now that make the game a cake walk.

    Your not going to change anything so either embrace it as they are trying to stick to plan or do what your doing and scream and kick and yell foul.  Either way the game marches on and your stuck having to learn to play the game the way it was meant to be played.  Guess 0 to 50 for you in 4 weeks is out of the questionnow.

     

    If rollback, crashes and bugs = challenge, then I know another game with a simular path called Dark and Light. I hear lots of challenge awaits adventueres in there. Read their FAQ

  • nokturnisnokturnis Member Posts: 64
    How is SOE at blame when there only doing the billing keep trying though.
  • BarenMordeganBarenMordegan Member Posts: 6

    I dont know if anyone noticed, but in this patch they listed absoulutely NOTHING about warriors.  I login and find my endurance costs for all specials fucked beyond beleif, and also my damage was SEVERELY decreased from before.  Wtf is this sneak nerf shit they are trying to pull?

  • tachgbtachgb Member UncommonPosts: 791
    Game Experience May Change During Online Play. <---



    Vanguard is nothing more than simple entertainment, why the good old moan ?
  • godpuppetgodpuppet Member Posts: 1,416
    Originally posted by tachgb

    Game Experience May Change During Online Play. <---



    Vanguard is nothing more than simple entertainment, why the good old moan ?
    Becuase it isnt entertaining? Becuase people payed $$$ and Sigil arent living up to their end of the bargain?

    ---
    image

  • DarksolitudeDarksolitude Member Posts: 6
    To every numbnuts that's flaming my attempt at saving other like minded gamers the grief of going through the same frustrations my friends and I have had in game thus far, if you aren't going to make a constructive post, go and open your own noob thread. If I wanted a cake walk game experience I'd re-download something like Flyff or boot WOW back up.



    Sigil developed the game, for those of you that ACTUALLY purchased and installed the game, Sony's name is literally all over it. Not to mention Sony completely obliterated the original Vanguard forums that was created by Sigil that had threads specifically meant for player feedback. As Sigil, at least originally cared about it's players feedback and overall satisfaction with the game.



    From a marketing standpoint every corporation/company/franchise/manufacturer has it's price. Sigil's staff is comprised of a long line of hardcore gamers/programmers. Sony of all companies has enough money to make anyone grit their teeth and grab their ankles, or in gamer's terms flashing a bunch of  "shinies" in the form of disgusting amounts of cash in front of Sigil. Being that a HUGE portion of Sigil's expenditures has been put on "Sony's tab," to think that Sony doesn't have a huge say in what goes on with the game is utter nonsense.



    So do your friggin' research before you flame blindlessly as I'm sure some of you people get off of on trolling the forums and flaming every post you can.
  • StoneysilencStoneysilenc Member Posts: 369
    Originally posted by Darksolitude

    Sigil developed the game, for those of you that ACTUALLY purchased and installed the game, Sony's name is literally all over it. Not to mention Sony completely obliterated the original Vanguard forums that was created by Sigil that had threads specifically meant for player feedback. As Sigil, at least originally cared about it's players feedback and overall satisfaction with the game.

    Sorry to burst your bubble but Sigil is pulling the strings of this one.  SOE provides servers, billing, marketing, tech support and distribution.  Hence why their logo is all over it.   Just like movies that are released by Pixar are distributed by Disney so they have the Disney logo all over them even though Disney was just the distributor, etc...   Brad himself has said so about SOE.  If you don't believe Brad then who are you gonna believe?  Probably nobody.

    Brad said HE didn't want official forums because it builds communities.  SOE didn't take down the forums.  All other SOE games have forums, Vanguard is the only one that doesn't.

    image

  • nynnivanynniva Member UncommonPosts: 235


    Originally posted by BarenMordega
    I dont know if anyone noticed, but in this patch they listed absoulutely NOTHING about warriors.  I login and find my endurance costs for all specials fucked beyond beleif, and also my damage was SEVERELY decreased from before.  Wtf is this sneak nerf shit they are trying to pull?

    I agree. Game experience may indeed change during online play. But let us know, they listed a whole long bunch of tweaks they made to many classes, but no word on the endurance costs doubling for many classes, the dps decreasing, the cooldowns increasing, etc.

    My boyfriend plays a warrior. He was out XPing in a spot where he had been for a few levels. He logged out for the update. He logged back in and nearly died in the same xp spot he had been all this time. After reaching safety, he took a look at some of his skills and was simply shocked.

    And my disciple...is just useless. To the point where the class should be removed from the game if this is all they can do. Look at me, I can pay half my endurance to put an 18 second hot that heals for 20 hp per tick.

    Gaming? That's not gaming!
    That's just people sat 'round in costumes drinking...

  • NevarionNevarion Member Posts: 274
    Originally posted by Stoneysilenc


    ...


    Brad said HE didn't want official forums because it builds communities.


    And that is bad?



    (Between I catched his drift but still I think it is hilarious funny in some way.)
  • StoneysilencStoneysilenc Member Posts: 369
    Originally posted by Nevarion

    Originally posted by Stoneysilenc


    ...


    Brad said HE didn't want official forums because it builds communities.


    And that is bad?



    (Between I catched his drift but still I think it is hilarious funny in some way.)

    I dunno, generally you in order to build a community you need a centeralized area to meet rather than scattered to the winds.  In my opinion not having centeralized forums is a bad decision but it wasn't my choice.

    image

  • DarksolitudeDarksolitude Member Posts: 6


    Originally posted by Stoneysilenc

    Originally posted by Darksolitude
    Sigil developed the game, for those of you that ACTUALLY purchased and installed the game, Sony's name is literally all over it. Not to mention Sony completely obliterated the original Vanguard forums that was created by Sigil that had threads specifically meant for player feedback. As Sigil, at least originally cared about it's players feedback and overall satisfaction with the game.
    Sorry to burst your bubble but Sigil is pulling the strings of this one. SOE provides servers, billing, marketing, tech support and distribution. Hence why their logo is all over it. Just like movies that are released by Pixar are distributed by Disney so they have the Disney logo all over them even though Disney was just the distributor, etc... Brad himself has said so about SOE. If you don't believe Brad then who are you gonna believe? Probably nobody.
    Brad said HE didn't want official forums because it builds communities. SOE didn't take down the forums. All other SOE games have forums, Vanguard is the only one that doesn't.



    Well constructive criticism I can take, and I will honestly admit that those particular details were unknown to me. My only purpose in starting this thread was to state that the game as of right now is essentially paying a monthly subscription to beta test a game that obviously wasn't ready for release. Also that the game as of right now is borked beyond belief, something that people who are still teetering on whether or not to purchase the game right now to at least wait 6 months while hopefully all the game-breaking problems are ironed out. As they should take priority over completely screwing up character models and class skills. I appreciate the constructive criticism, as I meant for this originally to be an informative post, not a whining or bitchfest. Whereas everyone else just appears to see it as flame bait.

  • StoneysilencStoneysilenc Member Posts: 369
    Originally posted by Darksolitude

    Originally posted by Stoneysilenc

    Originally posted by Darksolitude

    Sigil developed the game, for those of you that ACTUALLY purchased and installed the game, Sony's name is literally all over it. Not to mention Sony completely obliterated the original Vanguard forums that was created by Sigil that had threads specifically meant for player feedback. As Sigil, at least originally cared about it's players feedback and overall satisfaction with the game.

    Sorry to burst your bubble but Sigil is pulling the strings of this one.  SOE provides servers, billing, marketing, tech support and distribution.  Hence why their logo is all over it.   Just like movies that are released by Pixar are distributed by Disney so they have the Disney logo all over them even though Disney was just the distributor, etc...   Brad himself has said so about SOE.  If you don't believe Brad then who are you gonna believe?  Probably nobody.

    Brad said HE didn't want official forums because it builds communities.  SOE didn't take down the forums.  All other SOE games have forums, Vanguard is the only one that doesn't.

    Well constructive criticism I can take, and I will honestly admit that those particular details were unknown to me. My only purpose in starting this thread was to state that the game as of right now is essentially paying a monthly subscription to beta test a game that obviously wasn't ready for release. Also that the game as of right now is borked beyond belief, something that people who are still teetering on whether or not to purchase the game right now to at least wait 6 months while hopefully all the game-breaking problems are ironed out. As they should take priority over completely screwing up character models and class skills. I appreciate the constructive criticism, as I meant for this originally to be an informative post, not a whining or bitchfest. Whereas everyone else just appears to see it as flame bait.

    Well if you had read about the game a little bit before buying it you would have run into a quote by Brad (CEO of Sigil) saying that they ran out of money and it was still in beta stages but it was release or die.

    "Originally Posted by Aradune Mithara

    As for launching, yes it may be fairly close to the WoW expansion, but that's not something we can control. SOE has given us financing that has gotten us a lot further than our previous publisher, but at some point you have to launch a game. If we could have a couple more months of development, sure, that would be great. If we could have another year, we could do a lot more too. But again, the game has to launch at some point and we know when that is. I'm pretty proud of how much funding, marketing, etc. we've received to-date. We have over 100 people workiing on this game. That said, we're not Blizzard either (yet). So the polish, time, and budet they had isn't what we've had, although we probably come in second. The game is also different -- Vanguard is more about freedom, attracting people who want a more challenging long term home, providing a game for old school EQ players and also WoW players looking for either/both something new and/or something more free and immersive. That means Vanguard is going to offer features and an evironment that is different and better IMHO than WoW, but also be a very different game than WoW, where we are focussed on different things and have different priorities."

    image

  • damond5031damond5031 Member UncommonPosts: 445
    I would like to thank the OP for this thread as it has saved me from buying this broken game. To all you folks that come on here and bash folks for complaining about the fucked up game they bought, I implore you to stay  out of the forums and in game. If you  see nothing wrong with paying for a game that is full of bugs and runs like a model T with three tires than your a dumb ass..plain and simple.
  • DarksolitudeDarksolitude Member Posts: 6
    Originally posted by damond5031

    I would like to thank the OP for this thread as it has saved me from buying this broken game. To all you folks that come on here and bash folks for complaining about the fucked up game they bought, I implore you to stay  out of the forums and in game. If you  see nothing wrong with paying for a game that is full of bugs and runs like a model T with three tires than your a dumb ass..plain and simple.
    Well at least I was able to help someone amidst all this uneccesary flaming, saving them $50, at least until the game is actually worth the investment while Sigil irons everything out, which unfortunately at this point it isn't.
  • giodee21giodee21 Member UncommonPosts: 31
    you obviously dont know how to use your skills properly or have yet to puchase foods to assist you in combat . There is a lengthy list of items to help including friendly buffs from other players . You dont need a group to trecieve the buffs either. I find it hard to beleive that you want another game of WOW the game was never suppose ot be easy . They didnt put the easy button in this game from what I remember. Go back to Turf battles or something where you can gain 50 levels in 30min. Your a sad excuse for a warrior and its time for me to move on to other flames of idots that dont want to learn the game. C-YA

    image

  • DarksolitudeDarksolitude Member Posts: 6


    Originally posted by Stoneysilenc

    Well if you had read about the game a little bit before buying it you would have run into a quote by Brad (CEO of Sigil) saying that they ran out of money and it was still in beta stages but it was release or die.
    "Originally Posted by Aradune Mithara
    As for launching, yes it may be fairly close to the WoW expansion, but that's not something we can control. SOE has given us financing that has gotten us a lot further than our previous publisher, but at some point you have to launch a game. If we could have a couple more months of development, sure, that would be great. If we could have another year, we could do a lot more too. But again, the game has to launch at some point and we know when that is. I'm pretty proud of how much funding, marketing, etc. we've received to-date. We have over 100 people workiing on this game. That said, we're not Blizzard either (yet). So the polish, time, and budet they had isn't what we've had, although we probably come in second. The game is also different -- Vanguard is more about freedom, attracting people who want a more challenging long term home, providing a game for old school EQ players and also WoW players looking for either/both something new and/or something more free and immersive. That means Vanguard is going to offer features and an evironment that is different and better IMHO than WoW, but also be a very different game than WoW, where we are focussed on different things and have different priorities."


    Well I purchased the game at release well aware of the bugs and problems that come with every game at release. It's not the game functionality issues that bother me, those I can accept as it is a new game that Sigil even admitted pre-release wasn't as ready as they would have liked it to be. What really irks me though is to have the servers go down during peaktime for an "emergency maintenance" where the majority of the playerbase thinks that the game functionality issues are being resolved. Only to log back on and not be able to kill the mobs I was having no problems with not two hours earlier. Right now, to me, it's Sigil's priorities that are in question, and whether or not this is setting a precedent as to whether any of the REAL problems with the game will be addressed first and foremost in the upcoming months.

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