So you're inclined to not believe him, as is your right. But don't claim he's saying something different, because he's not. He's answering a question about SUBSCRIPTIONS, not Registered Users. That said, I've never seen him post about 150k Registered Users, please provide a link and thanks in advance.
I'm claiming he said something different, because he did.
This thread is all about subscriptions too, but scroll down and you'll see that he responded with 'registered users'.
Are you not inclined to believe the 150k figure he gave in the thread you linked me to, means registered users as well? I mean in one instance of him responding to a thread about subscriptions, he's said 150k registered users, in another he's said just 150k. You're saying it's more reasonable to believe in a week in a half, they've not only reached 150k registered users, they've maintained a 100% retention rate?
I don't think I'm being unreasonable. I'm being quite logical in the absence of Brad outright saying anything different.
And? So he gave a different number & phrase somewhere else, that doesn't conflict with a later post he made, and that makes what he said recently untrue? Come on. If anything, it asks for clarification.
The real question is: Brad, what is the exact number of current ACTIVE SUBSCRIPTIONS? So ask that question, don't sit here and claim you have the answer to a queation that hasn't been asked. I choose to believe his last staement because of the thought he put into it, and his history of NOT spinning reality. Look at his posts over the last few years, and especially recently. He doesn't run away from the messed-up reality of Vanguard's flaws, and that deserves respect IMO.
Personally, I believe the total active Subs are around 120k, with about 30k additional Subs canceled and waiting to cycle out. Why? Well, after reading around and comparing Primetime User Numbers, that seems about right. Again, Personally, I don't think Canceled but not cycled Subs should be included in the numbers, but I won't call Brad a liar for activly communication with his customers on regular basis, even if I do believe he's looking at the Glass Half Full.
I'll start my own SWG... with Black Jack... and Hookers!!!
Originally posted by MX13 Originally posted by Drea-mer I don't believe anything Sigil or brad says anymore rofl. Why? Show me one post where he's lied intentionally misled people, one.
How about - Sony will have no impact on development. Or my favorite - Sony is not providing funding.
Yes I am sure this game will have a great impact. After all it hasn't been in the Top 10 selling PC games in the U.S in the last 3 weeks. WOW has been there for 18 months.
I don't believe anything Sigil or brad says anymore rofl. Why? Show me one post where he's lied intentionally misled people, one.
Ok since you asked lol.
"Vanguard will be a 3rd generation MMORPG."
"Vanguard will be able to run on most systems."
"90 day FREEstation player acces"
etc..
Well, without links I won't say Brad said these, but I'll tell you VG runs on my GF's 4 year old AMD XP 256 Radeon Pro Machine (she's actually bellow specs, she just refuses to change machines). Your other point is subjective, since 3 Gen is in the eye of the beholder. That's marketing spin period.
Tell you want, you provide links to lies and I'll believe you. Unitl then, claim anything you want...
Oh, and the "90 Station Player", not "Station Access", BS falls on SOE since it's their service, and their BS wording... as usual for SOE...
I'll start my own SWG... with Black Jack... and Hookers!!!
Originally posted by MX13 Originally posted by Drea-mer Originally posted by MX13 Originally posted by Drea-mer I don't believe anything Sigil or brad says anymore rofl. Why? Show me one post where he's lied intentionally misled people, one.
Ok since you asked lol. "Vanguard will be a 3rd generation MMORPG." "Vanguard will be able to run on most systems." "90 day FREE station player acces" etc..
Well, without links I won't say Brad said these, but I'll tell you VG runs on my GF's 4 year old AMD XP 256 Radeon Pro Machine (she's actually bellow specs, she just refuses to change machines). Your other point is subjective, since 3 Gen is in the eye of the beholder. That's marketing spin period. Tell you want, you provide links to lies and I'll believe you. Unitl then, claim anything you want... Oh, and the "90 Station Player", not "Station Access", BS falls on SOE since it's their service, and their BS wording... as usual for SOE...
Hey man, that was all said on the VG site during beta, that is gone.
So you're inclined to not believe him, as is your right. But don't claim he's saying something different, because he's not. He's answering a question about SUBSCRIPTIONS, not Registered Users. That said, I've never seen him post about 150k Registered Users, please provide a link and thanks in advance.
I'm claiming he said something different, because he did.
This thread is all about subscriptions too, but scroll down and you'll see that he responded with 'registered users'.
Are you not inclined to believe the 150k figure he gave in the thread you linked me to, means registered users as well? I mean in one instance of him responding to a thread about subscriptions, he's said 150k registered users, in another he's said just 150k. You're saying it's more reasonable to believe in a week in a half, they've not only reached 150k registered users, they've maintained a 100% retention rate?
I don't think I'm being unreasonable. I'm being quite logical in the absence of Brad outright saying anything different.
And? So he gave a different number & phrase somewhere else, that doesn't conflict with a later post he made, and that makes what he said recently untrue? Come on. If anything, it asks for clarification.
The real question is: Brad, what is the exact number of current ACTIVE SUBSCRIPTIONS? So ask that question, don't sit here and claim you have the answer to a queation that hasn't been asked. I choose to believe his last staement because of the thought he put into it, and his history of NOT spinning reality. Look at his posts over the last few years, and especially recently. He doesn't run away from the messed-up reality of Vanguard's flaws, and that deserves respect IMO.
Personally, I believe the total active Subs are around 120k, with about 30k additional Subs canceled and waiting to cycle out. Why? Well, after reading around and comparing Primetime User Numbers, that seems about right. Again, Personally, I don't think Canceled but not cycled Subs should be included in the numbers, but I won't call Brad a liar for activly communication with his customers on regular basis, even if I do believe he's looking at the Glass Half Full.
So in short, you agree that the 150k number is 'registered users' and not active subscribers. I'm glad we agree.
As far as your 120k numbers, I doubt it. But hope for it if you want. More than likely it's below 100k. This is in line with Brad's words about VG doing similar to EQ. Which kept a 65% retention rate it's first two years.
Also some of the "resubscriptions" from this past month, were people like me. Ones who got scammed into thinking getting the Collector's Edition you get 3 free months. Im a manager at Circuit City, so when people ask what games i recommend, which actually gets asked very very much, i will never recommend this game to anyone. I feel bad for all adults and kids who see this in the store in the future and get suckered like i did
This reminds me of a very wise recent quote from Mark Jacobs from EA Mythic on another MMO site
"- one game has never killed another game. WoW did not kill any other game. It hurt other games, but it did not kill it. The only ones that generally kill the games are the developers, or the publishers"
What I see when I read these boards is a group of very dedicated players and a publisher that seems to be doing everything in its power to drive them away through stunts like the CE or pushing out the game early etc.
I guess the question is who will win? The players trying to keep the game alive or the publishers trying to kill it?
Also some of the "resubscriptions" from this past month, were people like me. Ones who got scammed into thinking getting the Collector's Edition you get 3 free months. Im a manager at Circuit City, so when people ask what games i recommend, which actually gets asked very very much, i will never recommend this game to anyone. I feel bad for all adults and kids who see this in the store in the future and get suckered like i did
This reminds me of a very wise recent quote from Mark Jacobs from EA Mythic on another MMO site
"- one game has never killed another game. WoW did not kill any other game. It hurt other games, but it did not kill it. The only ones that generally kill the games are the developers, or the publishers"
What I see when I read these boards is a group of very dedicated players and a publisher that seems to be doing everything in its power to drive them away through stunts like the CE or pushing out the game early etc.
I guess the question is who will win? The players trying to keep the game alive or the publishers trying to kill it?
I'd like to add another question: "Why would players dedicate themselves to keeping alive a game where the developers and publisher, on a consistent basis, crap all over them?"
Originally posted by uburex9 Originally posted by Alienovrlord Originally posted by Alordrence Also some of the "resubscriptions" from this past month, were people like me. Ones who got scammed into thinking getting the Collector's Edition you get 3 free months. Im a manager at Circuit City, so when people ask what games i recommend, which actually gets asked very very much, i will never recommend this game to anyone. I feel bad for all adults and kids who see this in the store in the future and get suckered like i did
This reminds me of a very wise recent quote from Mark Jacobs from EA Mythic on another MMO site "- one game has never killed another game. WoW did not kill any other game. It hurt other games, but it did not kill it. The only ones that generally kill the games are the developers, or the publishers" What I see when I read these boards is a group of very dedicated players and a publisher that seems to be doing everything in its power to drive them away through stunts like the CE or pushing out the game early etc. I guess the question is who will win? The players trying to keep the game alive or the publishers trying to kill it?
I'd like to add another question: "Why would players dedicate themselves to keeping alive a game where the developers and publisher, on a consistent basis, crap all over them?"
Has anyone else noticed that its been almost 2 months and they haven't added a single extra server. That speaks volumes about the game's growth.
With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal
Originally posted by Vrazule Has anyone else noticed that its been almost 2 months and they haven't added a single extra server. That speaks volumes about the game's growth.
I really have a hard time when reading Brad's statements and seeing populations online, reading people's doomed forcast for VG. With all the bugs and issues in the first month, I think it is a compliment to the gameplay that it has held so many subs and from what I have seen online, VG is doing pretty good. Lots of adventures, crafting, diplomates and harvester. This game is really going to be a force in the MMO world if it stays the coarse. Even with trolls running roughshot all over the VG forums, RAR
And Vanguard fans still continue to flamebait as much as possible, doing their best to start fights under Mods protection. Tired of answering, its like discussing with poothrowing monkeys. Enjoy your game, just be quiet about it... People are TRYING not to insult you, but you really are trying your best to be insulted.
"This is not a game to be tossed aside lightly. It should be thrown with great force"
Gamers are just drawing the line, and say STOP!....no, you can't excpect to lie to us, make us pay for it, and excpect us to say nothing back.
They do with Vanguard, and I think it's great that gamers tell Sigil how it is now, instead of Sigil thinking they can get away with anything.
Unfinished and unpolished? That i why i'm paying a montly fee. Bugs? They all have bugs. Point me out a game without bugs (yeah, your terms "so many bugs" can be used on a freaking console game). You just can't.
Gamers are just drawing the line, and say STOP!....no, you can't excpect to lie to us, make us pay for it, and excpect us to say nothing back.
They do with Vanguard, and I think it's great that gamers tell Sigil how it is now, instead of Sigil thinking they can get away with anything.
Unfinished and unpolished? That i why i'm paying a montly fee. Bugs? They all have bugs. Point me out a game without bugs (yeah, your terms "so many bugs" can be used on a freaking console game). You just can't.
I hate people in denial.I'll just say it like it is then.
The game is full of bugs, it crashes to desktop all the freaking time.
It doesn't run smooth at all on most computers.
It's not a seamless world like promised.
The servers are empty.
There's no central forums so Sigil doesn't have to answer anyone.
It's not 3rd gen, it's a freaking copy of EQ just even more boring.
They keep changing course, changing xp rates, changing classes, changing quest xp, kill xp,....wtf....do that in beta.
It's a piece of crap noone should have to pay for.
Gamers are just drawing the line, and say STOP!....no, you can't excpect to lie to us, make us pay for it, and excpect us to say nothing back.
They do with Vanguard, and I think it's great that gamers tell Sigil how it is now, instead of Sigil thinking they can get away with anything.
Unfinished and unpolished? That i why i'm paying a montly fee. Bugs? They all have bugs. Point me out a game without bugs (yeah, your terms "so many bugs" can be used on a freaking console game). You just can't.
I hate people in denial.I'll just say it like it is then.
The game is full of bugs, it crashes to desktop all the freaking time.
It doesn't run smooth at all on most computers.
It's not a seamless world like promised.
The servers are empty.
There's no central forums so Sigil doesn't have to answer anyone.
It's not 3rd gen, it's a freaking copy of EQ just even more boring.
They keep changing course, changing xp rates, changing classes, changing quest xp, kill xp,....wtf....do that in beta.
It's a piece of crap noone should have to pay for.
That suit you =P ?
Denial? I believe YOU are in denial.
1. Show me a game that does not have bugs.
2. It runs smoothly enough in my computer and I hear it runs smoothly for most people who have the recommended hardware and ram.
3. As far as I can see, you can zone anywhere and you can go anywhere.
4. Empty servers? Are you sure you are talking about Vanguard? The servers are very populated. Only thing is that the world is so large that you have to find out where people congregate. They are definetly not empty. However there is room for you to hunt unbothered if you want to. The choice is yours to socialize or not. The people and guilds are there and very visible.
5. It is true there are no central forums. However, they do communicate with the community and they do let you know the sites that are affiliates. They monitor, post, and respond at the affiliate sites, like for example, vanguardcrafters.com. There are many affiliate sites. The information is out there and the players are aware of that fact. But then again if you are not a player or part of the community, you would not know that would you?
6. Copy of EQ? That statement suggests to me that you have not played Vanguard. If you had, you would not make that statement.
7. Adjustments made for balance and enhancement are done in every mmorpg out there. Show me one where that does not happen. As to change in direction? I haven't seen any change in direction. What I have seen is a continuing enhancement of the player experience.
8. Again, you are entitled to your opinion, but I beg to differ. I play it. I love it. I am addicted to it and so is everyone I have come into contact with ingame. The reason you don't hear from us often is because we are there playing it and enjoying it. Consequently, we don't have a lot of time to rebut outrageous remarks such as the ones posted here.
Those of you who are new to this forum and are reading all this negativism. Stop for a moment and bear in mind that there are thousands of people like me who are playing it and who think it is the best mmorpg ever published.
I really have a hard time when reading Brad's statements and seeing populations online, reading people's doomed forcast for VG. With all the bugs and issues in the first month, I think it is a compliment to the gameplay that it has held so many subs and from what I have seen online, VG is doing pretty good. Lots of adventures, crafting, diplomates and harvester. This game is really going to be a force in the MMO world if it stays the coarse. Even with trolls running roughshot all over the VG forums, RAR
You believe all the BS that SoE and Brad are feeding out related to Sub numbers and Current server Pops?
Here, I'll save you the trouble :
Shoal == Troll
Tacola == VanBoi
Can't take the fact that a game you seem to hate is actually doing well despite the early release and bugs? Want some tissue now?
I wouldn't call less then 150K subscribers as doing well. They have 150K activated users counting all boxes sold and every buddy key used there is no way 100% if them all resibscribed. I know as I bought the game and will not be resubscribing myself. The game was released in beta form and will be in beta form for many months to come. With a system that meets all the suggested not minimal requirements and with sound on I can not relistically play above min setting. Sounds like you got lucky but it doesn't seem the average player with suggested system reqs is as likely to be. Every week they release patches that nerf something and then overpower something else they don't seem to know which direction to go and most patches seem almost like knee jerk reactions rather then anything actually thought through. If you believe everything is great with the game your living in make believe land, Lable me a hater if you like for pointing out the truth. I can just as easily admit VG has many interesting points that would have made it a success had they not released it in its current state. Anyone that believe all that Brad says please tell me how seemless VG is
Not that I believe him but he said they went through the billing cycle when he maid this claim. Meaning that he was counting the people who stuck it out after the free month.
I really have a hard time when reading Brad's statements and seeing populations online, reading people's doomed forcast for VG. With all the bugs and issues in the first month, I think it is a compliment to the gameplay that it has held so many subs and from what I have seen online, VG is doing pretty good. Lots of adventures, crafting, diplomates and harvester. This game is really going to be a force in the MMO world if it stays the coarse. Even with trolls running roughshot all over the VG forums, RAR
I can't agree with you more Tacola. The reason I'm here is because my server is actually down at the moment, and am very surprised to see the trolls still trolling. I would have thought they would have moved on by now to rant the usual tirade on the next upcoming mmorpg.
As to Vanguard, all I have to say is that I am addicted and hooked. It is the best game I have played and I have played a lot. Not only is the adventuring dimention of the game incredibly entertaining but the crafting is unsurpassed by any other mmorpg out there. So many things to make for a player market. Crafting is fun and rewarding, as well as harvesting resources for crafting. I am not even going to get into the Diplomacy sphere, which is unique or the player driven economy which is thriving.
I already bought a plot of land and am looking for the best deal on construction resources to build my house. As an outfitter, I can make my own roof but still need bricks and woodpanels from minerologists and carpenters. Its a booming economy out here and we are all having fun.
So... let the trolls troll.... we are playing the game. So all you people out there reading these forums be wary of the naysayers. If you really want to find out about vanguard and crafting... head over to vanguardcrafters.com and learn the REAL story.
I can't agree with this post I will answer it with fact. First my subscriptopn comes up the 28th and i will not be renewing so I have indeed been playing. I am a 21st level weaponsmith and can make grade A superior (ie rare, yellow con) weapons as long as I have the rare nickle to do so. 3 patches ago they nerfed the stats on both player weapons and player armor. Player created rare weapons had been roughly equal to mob dropped rare weapons prior to the patch. the patch on rares alone caused a drop from +39 to a stat for rare 2 handers to a mere +23 stat (thats roughly a 40% stat nerf) with a slight hp or energy add that was equal about one hit of hp for a full plate warrior fighting a even con mob or 1 average spell for a caster. This was a disappointment for me but i took it in stride because after all our weapon dps with stricking was at least still comparable to weapons of same rarity dropped from mobs. Unfortunitly the next patch they nerfed that as well changing stricking to a proc that would fire off every 5th or 6th battle (depending on length of battle) and decreasing weapon damage in general except for a slight increase in 1 handed weapons as they saw most players were using the better duel wield weapons when they could. End point while they nerfed the heck out player created weapons and thus regulated weaponsmiths to making harvesting tools and horseshoes, they then had to increase player damage in yet another patch via abilities. Some would argue crafted rare weapon were to easy too come by as they could be found for sell from players on the broker but each weapon of tin qualitiy required 1 nickle ore (20 nickle units) I had 1 lucky day when i got 2 nickle, other days I got none on the average I could probably find 1 nickle in 6+ hours of harvesting so it wasn't like weaponsmiths were churning the rares out (and nickle ore itself was selling for a gold each on the broker on my server so it was rare) I assume those saying crafte weapons were too eay to come by were not the crafters but more likely the adventurers trying to sell their mob drop weapons
This of course was not the sole reasoning I'm not resubscribing but since the previous post was about how great crafting is going i thought I'd give my own look on it
Yes by all means be wary of the trolls that do not give facts, but also be just as wary of the Fanbois that also make baseless statements and say everyone that has a complaint is a troll. VG IS a game in beta, it IS going through lots of changes right now. It IMO has more problems now then most MMORPG's at launch and saying it will someday be stable and enjoyable for all is not enough to keep me paying to beta. By all means get a buddy key and try it out yourself, YMMV but if you buy it without trying it first then you really have no one to blame but yourself if you find out not all of us here are trollish Brad haters with no clue about MMORPG's as the Fanbois would lead you to believe
lets give them the benefit of the doubt and say that between buddy keys and purchased copies 150K people have made an account. What matters is how many are paying a monthly subscription. From what I understand most of the box money goes to the publisher, MMO's survive off subscription money. I would love to get ahold of a buddy key just so I could see for myself how many are really online and how much performance has been improved (if any) since beta.
I really have a hard time when reading Brad's statements and seeing populations online, reading people's doomed forcast for VG. With all the bugs and issues in the first month, I think it is a compliment to the gameplay that it has held so many subs and from what I have seen online, VG is doing pretty good. Lots of adventures, crafting, diplomates and harvester. This game is really going to be a force in the MMO world if it stays the coarse. Even with trolls running roughshot all over the VG forums, RAR
And Vanguard fans still continue to flamebait as much as possible, doing their best to start fights under Mods protection. Tired of answering, its like discussing with poothrowing monkeys. Enjoy your game, just be quiet about it... People are TRYING not to insult you, but you really are trying your best to be insulted.
I cannot find the words to express how true this post is, so I will use a lame ancronym to do the job poorly.
QFT!!!!!!!
Currently Playing: Everything but MMORPGs Cancelled: L2, FFXI, VSoH, LotRO, WAR, WoW Looking Forward To: SW:TOR
Comments
Ok since you asked lol.
"Vanguard will be a 3rd generation MMORPG."
"Vanguard will be able to run on most systems."
"90 day FREE station player acces"
etc..
You forgot
"This game will not release until it is finished".
And "Vanguard will be a seamless world, without zones."
Let's keep a rolling list.
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/118629/page/10
This thread is all about subscriptions too, but scroll down and you'll see that he responded with 'registered users'.
Are you not inclined to believe the 150k figure he gave in the thread you linked me to, means registered users as well? I mean in one instance of him responding to a thread about subscriptions, he's said 150k registered users, in another he's said just 150k. You're saying it's more reasonable to believe in a week in a half, they've not only reached 150k registered users, they've maintained a 100% retention rate?
I don't think I'm being unreasonable. I'm being quite logical in the absence of Brad outright saying anything different.
And? So he gave a different number & phrase somewhere else, that doesn't conflict with a later post he made, and that makes what he said recently untrue? Come on. If anything, it asks for clarification.
The real question is: Brad, what is the exact number of current ACTIVE SUBSCRIPTIONS? So ask that question, don't sit here and claim you have the answer to a queation that hasn't been asked. I choose to believe his last staement because of the thought he put into it, and his history of NOT spinning reality. Look at his posts over the last few years, and especially recently. He doesn't run away from the messed-up reality of Vanguard's flaws, and that deserves respect IMO.
Personally, I believe the total active Subs are around 120k, with about 30k additional Subs canceled and waiting to cycle out. Why? Well, after reading around and comparing Primetime User Numbers, that seems about right. Again, Personally, I don't think Canceled but not cycled Subs should be included in the numbers, but I won't call Brad a liar for activly communication with his customers on regular basis, even if I do believe he's looking at the Glass Half Full.
I'll start my own SWG... with Black Jack... and Hookers!!!
In fact, forget the SWG!!!!
How about - Sony will have no impact on development. Or my favorite - Sony is not providing funding.
Yes I am sure this game will have a great impact. After all it hasn't been in the Top 10 selling PC games in the U.S in the last 3 weeks. WOW has been there for 18 months.
Ok since you asked lol.
"Vanguard will be a 3rd generation MMORPG."
"Vanguard will be able to run on most systems."
"90 day FREE station player acces"
etc..
Well, without links I won't say Brad said these, but I'll tell you VG runs on my GF's 4 year old AMD XP 256 Radeon Pro Machine (she's actually bellow specs, she just refuses to change machines). Your other point is subjective, since 3 Gen is in the eye of the beholder. That's marketing spin period.
Tell you want, you provide links to lies and I'll believe you. Unitl then, claim anything you want...
Oh, and the "90 Station Player", not "Station Access", BS falls on SOE since it's their service, and their BS wording... as usual for SOE...
I'll start my own SWG... with Black Jack... and Hookers!!!
In fact, forget the SWG!!!!
Ok since you asked lol.
"Vanguard will be a 3rd generation MMORPG."
"Vanguard will be able to run on most systems."
"90 day FREE station player acces"
etc..
Well, without links I won't say Brad said these, but I'll tell you VG runs on my GF's 4 year old AMD XP 256 Radeon Pro Machine (she's actually bellow specs, she just refuses to change machines). Your other point is subjective, since 3 Gen is in the eye of the beholder. That's marketing spin period.
Tell you want, you provide links to lies and I'll believe you. Unitl then, claim anything you want...
Oh, and the "90 Station Player", not "Station Access", BS falls on SOE since it's their service, and their BS wording... as usual for SOE...
Hey man, that was all said on the VG site during beta, that is gone.
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/118629/page/10
This thread is all about subscriptions too, but scroll down and you'll see that he responded with 'registered users'.
Are you not inclined to believe the 150k figure he gave in the thread you linked me to, means registered users as well? I mean in one instance of him responding to a thread about subscriptions, he's said 150k registered users, in another he's said just 150k. You're saying it's more reasonable to believe in a week in a half, they've not only reached 150k registered users, they've maintained a 100% retention rate?
I don't think I'm being unreasonable. I'm being quite logical in the absence of Brad outright saying anything different.
And? So he gave a different number & phrase somewhere else, that doesn't conflict with a later post he made, and that makes what he said recently untrue? Come on. If anything, it asks for clarification.
The real question is: Brad, what is the exact number of current ACTIVE SUBSCRIPTIONS? So ask that question, don't sit here and claim you have the answer to a queation that hasn't been asked. I choose to believe his last staement because of the thought he put into it, and his history of NOT spinning reality. Look at his posts over the last few years, and especially recently. He doesn't run away from the messed-up reality of Vanguard's flaws, and that deserves respect IMO.
Personally, I believe the total active Subs are around 120k, with about 30k additional Subs canceled and waiting to cycle out. Why? Well, after reading around and comparing Primetime User Numbers, that seems about right. Again, Personally, I don't think Canceled but not cycled Subs should be included in the numbers, but I won't call Brad a liar for activly communication with his customers on regular basis, even if I do believe he's looking at the Glass Half Full.
So in short, you agree that the 150k number is 'registered users' and not active subscribers. I'm glad we agree.As far as your 120k numbers, I doubt it. But hope for it if you want. More than likely it's below 100k. This is in line with Brad's words about VG doing similar to EQ. Which kept a 65% retention rate it's first two years.
This reminds me of a very wise recent quote from Mark Jacobs from EA Mythic on another MMO site
"- one game has never killed another game. WoW did not kill any other game. It hurt other games, but it did not kill it. The only ones that generally kill the games are the developers, or the publishers"
What I see when I read these boards is a group of very dedicated players and a publisher that seems to be doing everything in its power to drive them away through stunts like the CE or pushing out the game early etc.
I guess the question is who will win? The players trying to keep the game alive or the publishers trying to kill it?
This reminds me of a very wise recent quote from Mark Jacobs from EA Mythic on another MMO site
"- one game has never killed another game. WoW did not kill any other game. It hurt other games, but it did not kill it. The only ones that generally kill the games are the developers, or the publishers"
What I see when I read these boards is a group of very dedicated players and a publisher that seems to be doing everything in its power to drive them away through stunts like the CE or pushing out the game early etc.
I guess the question is who will win? The players trying to keep the game alive or the publishers trying to kill it?
I'd like to add another question: "Why would players dedicate themselves to keeping alive a game where the developers and publisher, on a consistent basis, crap all over them?"
"- one game has never killed another game. WoW did not kill any other game. It hurt other games, but it did not kill it. The only ones that generally kill the games are the developers, or the publishers"
What I see when I read these boards is a group of very dedicated players and a publisher that seems to be doing everything in its power to drive them away through stunts like the CE or pushing out the game early etc.
I guess the question is who will win? The players trying to keep the game alive or the publishers trying to kill it?
I'd like to add another question: "Why would players dedicate themselves to keeping alive a game where the developers and publisher, on a consistent basis, crap all over them?"
Good question, ask the NGE players that.
With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal
eqnext.wikia.com
*Very* good point.
And a bad sign about the game, for sure.
It was "in the pool"?
Get it? har har
Feb 11 2005 - WoW launched in Europe
Feb 20 2005 - 4 new EU relams open
Mar 17 2005 - Blizzard announce 500,000 subs and 230,000 co-current users in Europe... 1.5million subs in total.
Apr 14 2005 - 19 new EU relams open
Thought id put it out there.
http://www.joystiq.com/2007/03/10/for-game-addicts-bad-games-are-more-addictive/
there you go
It's not really hate.
It's just drawing a line.
So many bugs. An unfinished, unpolished game.
Gamers are just drawing the line, and say STOP!....no, you can't excpect to lie to us, make us pay for it, and excpect us to say nothing back.
They do with Vanguard, and I think it's great that gamers tell Sigil how it is now, instead of Sigil thinking they can get away with anything.
And Vanguard fans still continue to flamebait as much as possible, doing their best to start fights under Mods protection. Tired of answering, its like discussing with poothrowing monkeys. Enjoy your game, just be quiet about it... People are TRYING not to insult you, but you really are trying your best to be insulted.
"This is not a game to be tossed aside lightly.
It should be thrown with great force"
http://www.joystiq.com/2007/03/10/for-game-addicts-bad-games-are-more-addictive/
there you go
It's not really hate.
It's just drawing a line.
So many bugs. An unfinished, unpolished game.
Gamers are just drawing the line, and say STOP!....no, you can't excpect to lie to us, make us pay for it, and excpect us to say nothing back.
They do with Vanguard, and I think it's great that gamers tell Sigil how it is now, instead of Sigil thinking they can get away with anything.
Unfinished and unpolished? That i why i'm paying a montly fee. Bugs? They all have bugs. Point me out a game without bugs (yeah, your terms "so many bugs" can be used on a freaking console game). You just can't.
eqnext.wikia.com
http://www.joystiq.com/2007/03/10/for-game-addicts-bad-games-are-more-addictive/
there you go
It's not really hate.
It's just drawing a line.
So many bugs. An unfinished, unpolished game.
Gamers are just drawing the line, and say STOP!....no, you can't excpect to lie to us, make us pay for it, and excpect us to say nothing back.
They do with Vanguard, and I think it's great that gamers tell Sigil how it is now, instead of Sigil thinking they can get away with anything.
Unfinished and unpolished? That i why i'm paying a montly fee. Bugs? They all have bugs. Point me out a game without bugs (yeah, your terms "so many bugs" can be used on a freaking console game). You just can't.
I hate people in denial.I'll just say it like it is then.
The game is full of bugs, it crashes to desktop all the freaking time.
It doesn't run smooth at all on most computers.
It's not a seamless world like promised.
The servers are empty.
There's no central forums so Sigil doesn't have to answer anyone.
It's not 3rd gen, it's a freaking copy of EQ just even more boring.
They keep changing course, changing xp rates, changing classes, changing quest xp, kill xp,....wtf....do that in beta.
It's a piece of crap noone should have to pay for.
That suit you =P ?
http://www.joystiq.com/2007/03/10/for-game-addicts-bad-games-are-more-addictive/
there you go
It's not really hate.
It's just drawing a line.
So many bugs. An unfinished, unpolished game.
Gamers are just drawing the line, and say STOP!....no, you can't excpect to lie to us, make us pay for it, and excpect us to say nothing back.
They do with Vanguard, and I think it's great that gamers tell Sigil how it is now, instead of Sigil thinking they can get away with anything.
Unfinished and unpolished? That i why i'm paying a montly fee. Bugs? They all have bugs. Point me out a game without bugs (yeah, your terms "so many bugs" can be used on a freaking console game). You just can't.
I hate people in denial.I'll just say it like it is then.
The game is full of bugs, it crashes to desktop all the freaking time.
It doesn't run smooth at all on most computers.
It's not a seamless world like promised.
The servers are empty.
There's no central forums so Sigil doesn't have to answer anyone.
It's not 3rd gen, it's a freaking copy of EQ just even more boring.
They keep changing course, changing xp rates, changing classes, changing quest xp, kill xp,....wtf....do that in beta.
It's a piece of crap noone should have to pay for.
That suit you =P ?
Denial? I believe YOU are in denial.
1. Show me a game that does not have bugs.
2. It runs smoothly enough in my computer and I hear it runs smoothly for most people who have the recommended hardware and ram.
3. As far as I can see, you can zone anywhere and you can go anywhere.
4. Empty servers? Are you sure you are talking about Vanguard? The servers are very populated. Only thing is that the world is so large that you have to find out where people congregate. They are definetly not empty. However there is room for you to hunt unbothered if you want to. The choice is yours to socialize or not. The people and guilds are there and very visible.
5. It is true there are no central forums. However, they do communicate with the community and they do let you know the sites that are affiliates. They monitor, post, and respond at the affiliate sites, like for example, vanguardcrafters.com. There are many affiliate sites. The information is out there and the players are aware of that fact. But then again if you are not a player or part of the community, you would not know that would you?
6. Copy of EQ? That statement suggests to me that you have not played Vanguard. If you had, you would not make that statement.
7. Adjustments made for balance and enhancement are done in every mmorpg out there. Show me one where that does not happen. As to change in direction? I haven't seen any change in direction. What I have seen is a continuing enhancement of the player experience.
8. Again, you are entitled to your opinion, but I beg to differ. I play it. I love it. I am addicted to it and so is everyone I have come into contact with ingame. The reason you don't hear from us often is because we are there playing it and enjoying it. Consequently, we don't have a lot of time to rebut outrageous remarks such as the ones posted here.
Those of you who are new to this forum and are reading all this negativism. Stop for a moment and bear in mind that there are thousands of people like me who are playing it and who think it is the best mmorpg ever published.
My 2 Coppers.
You believe all the BS that SoE and Brad are feeding out related to Sub numbers and Current server Pops?
Here, I'll save you the trouble :
Shoal == Troll
Tacola == VanBoi
Can't take the fact that a game you seem to hate is actually doing well despite the early release and bugs? Want some tissue now?
I wouldn't call less then 150K subscribers as doing well. They have 150K activated users counting all boxes sold and every buddy key used there is no way 100% if them all resibscribed. I know as I bought the game and will not be resubscribing myself. The game was released in beta form and will be in beta form for many months to come. With a system that meets all the suggested not minimal requirements and with sound on I can not relistically play above min setting. Sounds like you got lucky but it doesn't seem the average player with suggested system reqs is as likely to be. Every week they release patches that nerf something and then overpower something else they don't seem to know which direction to go and most patches seem almost like knee jerk reactions rather then anything actually thought through. If you believe everything is great with the game your living in make believe land, Lable me a hater if you like for pointing out the truth. I can just as easily admit VG has many interesting points that would have made it a success had they not released it in its current state. Anyone that believe all that Brad says please tell me how seemless VG is
Cheers
I can't agree with you more Tacola. The reason I'm here is because my server is actually down at the moment, and am very surprised to see the trolls still trolling. I would have thought they would have moved on by now to rant the usual tirade on the next upcoming mmorpg.
As to Vanguard, all I have to say is that I am addicted and hooked. It is the best game I have played and I have played a lot. Not only is the adventuring dimention of the game incredibly entertaining but the crafting is unsurpassed by any other mmorpg out there. So many things to make for a player market. Crafting is fun and rewarding, as well as harvesting resources for crafting. I am not even going to get into the Diplomacy sphere, which is unique or the player driven economy which is thriving.
I already bought a plot of land and am looking for the best deal on construction resources to build my house. As an outfitter, I can make my own roof but still need bricks and woodpanels from minerologists and carpenters. Its a booming economy out here and we are all having fun.
So... let the trolls troll.... we are playing the game. So all you people out there reading these forums be wary of the naysayers. If you really want to find out about vanguard and crafting... head over to vanguardcrafters.com and learn the REAL story.
I can't agree with this post I will answer it with fact. First my subscriptopn comes up the 28th and i will not be renewing so I have indeed been playing. I am a 21st level weaponsmith and can make grade A superior (ie rare, yellow con) weapons as long as I have the rare nickle to do so. 3 patches ago they nerfed the stats on both player weapons and player armor. Player created rare weapons had been roughly equal to mob dropped rare weapons prior to the patch. the patch on rares alone caused a drop from +39 to a stat for rare 2 handers to a mere +23 stat (thats roughly a 40% stat nerf) with a slight hp or energy add that was equal about one hit of hp for a full plate warrior fighting a even con mob or 1 average spell for a caster. This was a disappointment for me but i took it in stride because after all our weapon dps with stricking was at least still comparable to weapons of same rarity dropped from mobs. Unfortunitly the next patch they nerfed that as well changing stricking to a proc that would fire off every 5th or 6th battle (depending on length of battle) and decreasing weapon damage in general except for a slight increase in 1 handed weapons as they saw most players were using the better duel wield weapons when they could. End point while they nerfed the heck out player created weapons and thus regulated weaponsmiths to making harvesting tools and horseshoes, they then had to increase player damage in yet another patch via abilities. Some would argue crafted rare weapon were to easy too come by as they could be found for sell from players on the broker but each weapon of tin qualitiy required 1 nickle ore (20 nickle units) I had 1 lucky day when i got 2 nickle, other days I got none on the average I could probably find 1 nickle in 6+ hours of harvesting so it wasn't like weaponsmiths were churning the rares out (and nickle ore itself was selling for a gold each on the broker on my server so it was rare) I assume those saying crafte weapons were too eay to come by were not the crafters but more likely the adventurers trying to sell their mob drop weapons
This of course was not the sole reasoning I'm not resubscribing but since the previous post was about how great crafting is going i thought I'd give my own look on it
Yes by all means be wary of the trolls that do not give facts, but also be just as wary of the Fanbois that also make baseless statements and say everyone that has a complaint is a troll. VG IS a game in beta, it IS going through lots of changes right now. It IMO has more problems now then most MMORPG's at launch and saying it will someday be stable and enjoyable for all is not enough to keep me paying to beta. By all means get a buddy key and try it out yourself, YMMV but if you buy it without trying it first then you really have no one to blame but yourself if you find out not all of us here are trollish Brad haters with no clue about MMORPG's as the Fanbois would lead you to believe
I miss DAoC
And Vanguard fans still continue to flamebait as much as possible, doing their best to start fights under Mods protection. Tired of answering, its like discussing with poothrowing monkeys. Enjoy your game, just be quiet about it... People are TRYING not to insult you, but you really are trying your best to be insulted.
I cannot find the words to express how true this post is, so I will use a lame ancronym to do the job poorly.
QFT!!!!!!!
Currently Playing: Everything but MMORPGs
Cancelled: L2, FFXI, VSoH, LotRO, WAR, WoW
Looking Forward To: SW:TOR