Well hopefully lines can be drawn under the whole Sigil thing.
I do think someone who can't fire people and shake it off shouldn't be running a company but then I do still respect Brad.
SOE now has the ball, I hope they use it and develop on Brad's ideas, as they are good ideas just poorly implemented.
I think the interviewer should be smacked, dragging peoples personal life into public is just wrong on so many levels.
What the Fing hell has it to do with us if Jeff had a relationship with a member of staff?Its just crap journalism and very very poor IMO.
Is f13 site turned into Hello magazine? Crikey...
Now playing: VG (after a long break from MMORPGS) Played for more than a month: Darkfall online, Vanguard SOH, Everquest, Horizons, WoW, SWG, Everquest II, Eve
Strange, but I feel reminded of a witch hunt the more posts I do read.
Witch hunt? The guy had $30+ million to spend, the backing of Microsoft, and 4+ years to develop his game. Had Sigil actually had some discipline in running the show, with those nasty schedules and deadlines that Brad seems to hate so much, they might have done two things:
1. Put out a much better, more focused game, since, you know, businesses run much more smoothly when you have a freaking plan,
and
2. If Microsoft had seen results that they felt were on the right track, SOE would never have entered the picture at all. MS is a company that will fund something, regardless of any potential losses, if they feel it is worthwhile. Just look at their consoles-- they're losing hundreds of dollars on each one sold and they don't care, because they believe in them that strongly. Had Vanguard been developed properly, with real progress, real direction and clarity, and a stable operation, then MS probably would have kept them on.
Instead, what did Microsoft get for their time and money? A company that was so disorganized and poorly run that the second in command was openly nailing the marketing director while his wife was in the same office. They got a CEO who's apparently a eunuch, since he lacked the balls to be a real leader when it counted, like when it came to maintaining a production schedule for his game, or hiring and firing people, and who doesn't even have the decency to show up when half his employees are laid off in a freaking parking lot because he might cry. WTF?
The fact that Sigil managed to release a game at all, given the chaos and total mismanagement that clearly plagued them, is a fucking miracle. And Brad McQuaid has done the one thing that I didn't believe possible-- he made Smed and the rest of SOE look even better by all of this than they did before.
If anything, SOE should be given Good Samaritan awards for taking on this project and trying to turn it around. Clearly, Sigil weren't up to the task because their leaders were either screwing around or too weak and spineless to take a stand on anything.
All the obvious jaw dropping, lack of taking any responsibility comments asside, did any one notice the part where he says he might work on another project in the future for SOE............................
ARE YOU FREAKING KIDDING ME??? I hope to hell it's nothing more complicated than "Return of Frogger" because that man should be given a permanent banning form any sort of serious development environment. Forever!
Of course no one can know the man's intention and I'm sure on some level he's not a horrible, horrible man (I'm reaching here, I know) but dear god. He doesn't show up for everyone being fired because he was going to break down and cry? OK, SO WHAT?? Cry, these people came to YOUR company because of YOUR vision and now they're canned because of YOUR screw ups. Being shown a little emotion is the least they deserve.
well,from what i read was from this interview i got this from it:
Microsoft got too demanding and impatient and was distracted with the X Box and after Sigil got away from them things got weird inside Sigil.
it was kind of like a real soap opera.cheating on your spouse and a power struggle for control of things.people like me won't ever know what really happened but i still stick up for Brad.he trusted these people and gave them jobs and they went behind his back and i think eventually things got way out of hand.
A coup attempt! Do you guys know what that means?Everyone turned on the captain!how could the captain command the ship when they were all against him?
I think there are some people who are not getting their fair share of blame and you guys are being way too mean to Brad.
i read that there was a "coup" attempt.What really happened? we will never know but i think brad is getting too much blame.
The boss never really does anything ,that is how real life is.So i think it's not mostly his fault.
I think Brad is the goat,but it's the guy just under him who should get the biggest blame.
Strange, but I feel reminded of a witch hunt the more posts I do read.
Witch hunt? The guy had $30+ million to spend, the backing of Microsoft, and 4+ years to develop his game. Had Sigil actually had some discipline in running the show, with those nasty schedules and deadlines that Brad seems to hate so much, they might have done two things:
1. Put out a much better, more focused game, since, you know, businesses run much more smoothly when you have a freaking plan,
and
2. If Microsoft had seen results that they felt were on the right track, SOE would never have entered the picture at all. MS is a company that will fund something, regardless of any potential losses, if they feel it is worthwhile. Just look at their consoles-- they're losing hundreds of dollars on each one sold and they don't care, because they believe in them that strongly. Had Vanguard been developed properly, with real progress, real direction and clarity, and a stable operation, then MS probably would have kept them on.
Instead, what did Microsoft get for their time and money? A company that was so disorganized and poorly run that the second in command was openly nailing the marketing director while his wife was in the same office. They got a CEO who's apparently a eunuch, since he lacked the balls to be a real leader when it counted, like when it came to maintaining a production schedule for his game, or hiring and firing people, and who doesn't even have the decency to show up when half his employees are laid off in a freaking parking lot because he might cry. WTF?
The fact that Sigil managed to release a game at all, given the chaos and total mismanagement that clearly plagued them, is a fucking miracle. And Brad McQuaid has done the one thing that I didn't believe possible-- he made Smed and the rest of SOE look even better by all of this than they did before.
If anything, SOE should be given Good Samaritan awards for taking on this project and trying to turn it around. Clearly, Sigil weren't up to the task because their leaders were either screwing around or too weak and spineless to take a stand on anything.
Thank You!!!!
I would like to add, that he's a public figure, the CEO of the company, and hyped this game to be the game of all games. If you're going to court the public like a demi-god be prepared to face the backlash when you screw up.
No this isnt a witch hunt. Witch hunts imply that there is no basis for the public flogging. As clearly shown, time and time again, this isnt the case.
Wow. It amazes me that a CEO could have his head so far up his behind for so long on so many fronts. Not only did he stumble through the last 6+ years ignoring industry trends and sinking 30+ million bucks into a game that essentially is intended for a niche market in today's MMORPG landscape, but he was oblivious to all the warning bells going off around him throughout the course of production of this game. The fact that he shamelessly washes his hands of any responsibility for the downfall of Sigil and the failure of the game is insane. Blame the XBOX 360 for Microsoft dumping the project? C'mon! Can we blame the PS3 if Sony decides to axe this project somewhere down the line?
My favorite part of the interview had to be when he apologized for not being at the company firing because he would have cried. Good example to set as a CEO and a "religious person." That's the sign of a great leader--shirk all responsibility and then bawl like a baby when things go down the tubes. He gets to cry all the way to a cushy advisory position at SOE while half his company have to find new jobs.
A CEO with no focus, no gameplan, no head for business, no leadership skills, and no sense of accountability for his actions. Not someone I'd want the security of my job hinging on. His treatment, or lack there of, of his employees is downright disgusting. It makes me wonder if this guy has worked an honest day in his life.
All the obvious jaw dropping, lack of taking any responsibility comments asside, did any one notice the part where he says he might work on another project in the future for SOE............................ ARE YOU FREAKING KIDDING ME??? I hope to hell it's nothing more complicated than "Return of Frogger" because that man should be given a permanent banning form any sort of serious development environment. Forever! Of course no one can know the man's intention and I'm sure on some level he's not a horrible, horrible man (I'm reaching here, I know) but dear god. He doesn't show up for everyone being fired because he was going to break down and cry? OK, SO WHAT?? Cry, these people came to YOUR company because of YOUR vision and now they're canned because of YOUR screw ups. Being shown a little emotion is the least they deserve.
Very well said.
To be quite frank if you are ready to admit several times you don't have the backbone to be a CEO, and that you don't have the management and time management skills to be a CEO, then don't be a CEO. Especially of a small company like this where you need strong leadership. I can't honestly believe the excuses he gives about Microsoft being hard on deadlines, when employees of Sigil have even said the game that shipped was created almost entirely in the last year and a half AND that they were creating fluff content to give the Microsoft boys something to look at, knowing it was worthless. You can blame Microsoft for being a bit harsh on deadlines but what would you do if you had the resources they have and some independant development company is jerking you around? (which is probably what Microsoft thought and apparently was true!).
AND NOW he has the idea that it's ok to make up MORE excuses and throw out some overly verbose rant, repeating Zoo Tycoon over and over as if to talk down about the ability of the people he was forced to work with. How can Brad Mcquaid say that any other person doesn't understand MMO development when he has admitted time, time and time again HOW many times he screwed it up and didn't understand it himself? He couldn't manage the process despite having a virtual pile of money and half a decade and in the end still relied on the lower level dev teams (the ones probably out on the streets) to work 12+hours a day to play catch up for his years of playing hypemaster instead of a leader . Why do they do this? Because they cared for one thing, and they knew it was their JOB (Even though they seem to have been taken advantage of).
Where is he during these last few, long ass days on the home stretch? "I was out meeting venture capitalists, trying to get money to finish this project, keep it running, and possibly a second one in the future." A second one in the future? I don't buy this excuse for a second. If the state of the game is such that your people are working that long of days and things are still rocky in terms of deadlines, you have to spend time leading your team.
After they do that how does he repay his employees at launch day? "Well I knew bad things were forthcoming and I just couldn't face them" How cowardly of you to not even pay respect to the work these people did, busting their ass and giving up hours and hours of personal time and sleep to make sure your investment had some revenue coming back in to you and that you didn't lose face any further.
How does he show respect on doomsday? "Well I was pretty emotional and it's kind of corny but I knew I would cry" Corny isn't exactly the word I would use, Mr. McQuaid. Yes it sucks and you never wanted it to happen, but you are still the leader. It must've been real hard to sit back and conduct that interview, especially without looking the people who gave you their all in the face.
I'm sure it's been tough on him emotionally and all that jazz, but to be honest when you take and put other people's livelihood as your responsibility, you are forced to do all kinds of things that you don't like and shucking those responsibilties off for months and months is inexcusable. You could've stepped down officially and gone out and found someone competant in the field to finish your job, but you chose the dishonorable route instead.
Being the boss is in his situation is not about being someone's buddy. It's not about sitting back and avoiding everyone when you feel a little uncomfortable about something. It's about having integrity and doing the job that YOU created for yourself.
Integrity is doing the right thing, even when noone else is looking. This time a ton of people are watching and he wants to hide in a corner and "en-vision" how things could've been.
Supernerd, I would agree that Brad is being overly villianised. However, if consider the past and the recent interviews given it paints a pretty clear picture that Brads pride and lack of management skills was the number one reason that vanguard failed. That being the case, of course he is to "blame." The fact that there was an attempted coup is only further evidence to what degree Brad's mismanagmnet manifested and the degree of the development team's desire to be successful.
In business, timing is everything. Apparently the timing with Sigil and Microsoft was way off. From the diatribe I just read from Brad's late night/early morning interview it sounds as though Vanguard had no chance for support from the brass at Microsoft since, at that time they were in a state of stress about the Xbox 360 release.
Someone help me here. When was Vanguard first conceived and when was Sigil formed. It's my understanding that late 2002 was the birth of Sigil and the concept phase for Vanguard. Is this correct? When did Sigil become a working partner with Microsoft? I can not find archives on this. I had a feeling that Microsoft came on board fairly soon after Sigil was formed. Sometime in 2003? My point here is this. I am assuming that Vanguard was at least well into the designing phase before Microsoft was ready to release their Xbox 360. Somehow, I just can't keep this strange feeling away, but it sounds as though someone was stonewalling about what was really going on. I feel as though the guys and their intrepid leader, Brad, had plenty of time to get the ball rolling on this MMO. However, I just keep reading line after line after line of excuses and mini-whines about why the game just wasn't getting it done. Yes, Microsoft is a behemeth conglomerate. But, with that said, they are also very, very successful. Love them or hate them you have to admit Microsoft is a cornerstone for most software out there.
I just am NOT going to accept that Xbox 360 and the lack of direction from a group of guys/gals from that "Tycoons" game was the root to all the evil here. There is more than meets the eye here, folks. Vanguard had the money. Vanguard had the support. Vanguard had the team. Most importantly, Vanguard had the time to make that first Microsoft due date in the summer of 2006. You know, if you have a dream...then dream it...make it happen. To excuse your way out of blame is so totally lame, here. Where was Brad when his comrades were fired, by the way?
No more sympathy from me here, folks. This game was botched.
Now, SoE has this game. They already have a very successful MMO in EverQuest 2. I am not all that sure the want to dabble in 2 MMO's when subscription numbers are not the strongest in EQ 2. Let's just witness what actually transpires with SoE and Sigil. Again, my gut says SoE will basically ignore this MMO. It will slowly fade, but not completely fade away.
The dream is over as far as I'm concerned and I'm very irritated with all this "drama".
SoE, either fix the damn game or can it. No more bullsh*t!
All I want is the truth Just gimme some truth John Lennon
I think Brad fell victim to believing the hype about himself. He seems very immature and it appears he surrounded himself with "yes men" to blinded by "the man" to actually see what was going on.
Watch your thoughts; they become words. Watch your words; they become actions. Watch your actions; they become habits. Watch your habits; they become character. Watch your character; it becomes your destiny. Lao-Tze
well,from what i read was from this interview i got this from it:
Microsoft got too demanding and impatient and was distracted with the X Box and after Sigil got away from them things got weird inside Sigil.
it was kind of like a real soap opera.cheating on your spouse and a power struggle for control of things.people like me won't ever know what really happened but i still stick up for Brad.he trusted these people and gave them jobs and they went behind his back and i think eventually things got way out of hand.
A coup attempt! Do you guys know what that means?Everyone turned on the captain!how could the captain command the ship when they were all against him?
I think there are some people who are not getting their fair share of blame and you guys are being way too mean to Brad.
i read that there was a "coup" attempt.What really happened? we will never know but i think brad is getting too much blame.
The boss never really does anything ,that is how real life is.So i think it's not mostly his fault.
I think Brad is the goat,but it's the guy just under him who should get the biggest blame.
Micrsoft gave Brad 30+ million dollars to make a Triple A MMORPG. If they asked him to do a naked tap dance he needed to be asking what sort of shoes he should wear. They paid for the right to start asking questions and wondering why Sigil couldn't show anything of value to it's fans, to E3 and most importantly to MS, their investor. Who cares if they started focusing on the Xbox 360, they had given you 30 million dollars and you didn't do anything with it.
Most of the time when a Mutiny happens it's because the captain is doing something stupid like ramming into the same iceberg over and over. Read the developer post and his interview over again and tell me that Brad isn't a pig headed selfish wank who probably never listnened to his employees.
I will agree that Brad isn't the only one to blame but everyone else sunk with the ship while Brad stayed home. I know he has watched enough Star Trek to know that you always go down with the ship. He may have hid from his employees but the fans will sink him now.
I think Brad fell victim to believing the hype about himself. He seems very immature and it appears he surrounded himself with "yes men" to blinded by "the man" to actually see what was going on.
The phrase: "Oh, how the mighty have fallen..." comes to mind.
For over a year I have been posting in this forum telling people a lot of the things Brad says about Vanguard is a pack of lies. I have been called a "troll" a "hater", a "noob" - you name it, I've been called it. Finally people see that what this man says is not Gospel, and he has been exposed and discredited, which was long overdue. Now that the era of mystique and idolatization of Brad McQuaid is over, people are starting to notice that a lot of the time when this man is speaking, he isn't telling the truth - something I saw a long time ago.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
From what I am reading, it seems like Brad saw this trainwreck coming from a mile away. Yet he was still touting how great the game was. How is this any different then Dark & Light? I see very bad things in the future for Vanguard as it seems the game is becoming a running joke. Brad should basically stop talking so that he can't do any more damage to the games already trashed reputation.
To the guy who thinks Brad is a red-head. Are you confusing him with Jeff Butler?
To all those who havent read all the way to the bottom of the interview, there is an addendum that clarifies Jeff and Michelle Butler were in the process of divorcing when he started dating April. An amicable divorce may seem unthinkable to some of you but is more common than you realise.
Man, this whole sigil buys SOE, fires half employes, SOE speaks about office soap opera has been more entertaining then the actual game. I wish they made a MMO of about this...
Past: EQ, EQ2, DAoC, SWG, WoW, LotR, VG, WAR, GW, GW2, Rift Present: The Elder Scrolls Online Future: Everquest Next
From what I am reading, it seems like Brad saw this trainwreck coming from a mile away. Yet he was still touting how great the game was. How is this any different then Dark & Light? I see very bad things in the future for Vanguard as it seems the game is becoming a running joke. Brad should basically stop talking so that he can't do any more damage to the games already trashed reputation.
Vanguard isn't a running joke; and I'll tell you why. This has become the norm for the MMO industry. The whole MMO industry has become a joke.
I seldom post here; though, I read the posts religiously. I just felt compelled to write something…for some reason.
I bought Vanguard. I loaded it, patched it, and fired it up. The game just doesn’t work on my system. The lag was too great and I had been expecting something akin to EQ2 in looks versus performance. That’s all I’ll say on it. I knew it wasn’t ready yet so…it’s my lost $50.
It is terrible what has happened to the employees of this company. I’ve worked in the IT field for 11 years. I’ve been with a very large company and a few small ones. I can assure you that programming is a very stressful job. People invest millions in your app (or in this case, game) and expect results. I know the pain of lost hours with family and loved ones do to work commitments. I know the indifference of people expecting your application now. I know how people end up “together” due to long hours together having things in common.
My heart goes out to all the staff that worked on VG. It’s a terrible blow when you are terminated. I hope that each of you are able to get back on your feet, dust yourself off, and continue to do what it is you love.
Brad…if you read this, I’ve grown much respect for you over the last few days. You’ve taken your lumps and kept your chin high. Many, many people that are upset have no idea what it like to work in a coding production environment, to work with (for) someone like Microsoft, or to gather venture capital. It’s a hard, hard life; but, we do it because we love it.
My thoughts are with you, Brad and each member of the VG staff.
Man, this whole sigil buys SOE, fires half employes, SOE speaks about office soap opera has been more entertaining then the actual game. I wish they made a MMO of about this...
LMAO
they need to make a SIM game about making your own MMOG
I think Brad fell victim to believing the hype about himself. He seems very immature and it appears he surrounded himself with "yes men" to blinded by "the man" to actually see what was going on.
Well, he certainly showed he doesn't really have any guts. Too weak to be at the launch party and failed his employee's again when he wasn't there to see them let go. Real leaders deal with the bad along with the good.....
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
From Supernerd: "The boss never really does anything, that's how real life is."
A real CEO in a real corporate environment in real life does do things. Lots of things. Like ensuring the middle management's ramant nepotism gets squashed post-haste, lest the feds come in and start investigating. A real CEO makes damn sure production moves along so investors remain happy and employees keep their jobs doing what they love to do. A real CEO plays the delicate balancing act between creative vision and realistic business development because no one else in the company wants to make those decisions - the CEO has to. A real CEO doesn't piss away $30+ million of investment capital and 6+ years of development time. A real CEO fires a guy for spending more time with his pants off in some seedy hotel with a fellow employee than working with his wife, also employed by the same CEO, actually developing the game. A real CEO - hell, a real man - actually understands what it is to say, "the buck stops here," rather than quoting it over the phone to some schmuck he doesn't know and promptly shirking all responsibility for his woeful ineptitude.
A real CEO actually runs the company. When a real CEO is doing his job, it appears to some people who don't know the nuts and bolts of corporate management that he isn't doing anything. The company is functional and all the other things he has delegated - development, art design, everything else - is going smoothly largely because of the CEO's management. The night manager at McDonald's probably doesn't do shit - but he's not a CEO, or even a real business manager. A real CEO, like Brad wanted us all to believe he was, has one hell of a lot of responsibility. This responsibility is first and foremost to his employees, and it speaks volumes about that CEO as a professional and as a man that he can't find the balls to face his employees when half of them are fired on very short notice in the godforsaken parking lot.
To the guy who thinks Brad is a red-head. Are you confusing him with Jeff Butler? To all those who havent read all the way to the bottom of the interview, there is an addendum that clarifies Jeff and Michelle Butler were in the process of divorcing when he started dating April. An amicable divorce may seem unthinkable to some of you but is more common than you realise.
It has nothing to do with divorce and everything to do with a stable, professional office environment. I personally don't care that Butler was fucking the marketing director while getting divorced from his wife. The point is, they did all of that in the same office, and it was openly known. THAT is the issue.
I used to work in radio many years back, and one of the first and foremost rules was that office relationships were verboten because they got in the way of a professional environment. If two people showed interest in each other, it was "suggested" that they keep it all out of the office, and more often than not, one of the people involved would end up going to work elsewhere so they could work in a career they liked, and be with someone they wanted. The relationship itself isn't the issue. It's the effect that kind of soap opera shit has on an office and its morale that is the point.
When you've got dozens of employees and millions on the line, that kind of drama has to take a backseat to getting the job done. When people know that sort of stuff is going on, and nothing is done about it, it starts to get in the way of anything being done, and people start getting more lax about things. Why should they care about something being done professionally, or with any sort of care when even at the highest levels, something like that is going on, and everyone knows?
Man, this whole sigil buys SOE, fires half employes, SOE speaks about office soap opera has been more entertaining then the actual game. I wish they made a MMO of about this...
Haha I imagine a lot of people out there would line up for a chance to "crit" some of their favorite real life people from the MMO industry...
You know Brad, Smed....
*You have looted 1 Smed's Axe Of p0werz from Smed the Destroyer*
Comments
Well hopefully lines can be drawn under the whole Sigil thing.
I do think someone who can't fire people and shake it off shouldn't be running a company but then I do still respect Brad.
SOE now has the ball, I hope they use it and develop on Brad's ideas, as they are good ideas just poorly implemented.
I think the interviewer should be smacked, dragging peoples personal life into public is just wrong on so many levels.
What the Fing hell has it to do with us if Jeff had a relationship with a member of staff?Its just crap journalism and very very poor IMO.
Is f13 site turned into Hello magazine? Crikey...
Now playing: VG (after a long break from MMORPGS)
Played for more than a month: Darkfall online, Vanguard SOH, Everquest, Horizons, WoW, SWG, Everquest II, Eve
Witch hunt? The guy had $30+ million to spend, the backing of Microsoft, and 4+ years to develop his game. Had Sigil actually had some discipline in running the show, with those nasty schedules and deadlines that Brad seems to hate so much, they might have done two things:
1. Put out a much better, more focused game, since, you know, businesses run much more smoothly when you have a freaking plan,
and
2. If Microsoft had seen results that they felt were on the right track, SOE would never have entered the picture at all. MS is a company that will fund something, regardless of any potential losses, if they feel it is worthwhile. Just look at their consoles-- they're losing hundreds of dollars on each one sold and they don't care, because they believe in them that strongly. Had Vanguard been developed properly, with real progress, real direction and clarity, and a stable operation, then MS probably would have kept them on.
Instead, what did Microsoft get for their time and money? A company that was so disorganized and poorly run that the second in command was openly nailing the marketing director while his wife was in the same office. They got a CEO who's apparently a eunuch, since he lacked the balls to be a real leader when it counted, like when it came to maintaining a production schedule for his game, or hiring and firing people, and who doesn't even have the decency to show up when half his employees are laid off in a freaking parking lot because he might cry. WTF?
The fact that Sigil managed to release a game at all, given the chaos and total mismanagement that clearly plagued them, is a fucking miracle. And Brad McQuaid has done the one thing that I didn't believe possible-- he made Smed and the rest of SOE look even better by all of this than they did before.
If anything, SOE should be given Good Samaritan awards for taking on this project and trying to turn it around. Clearly, Sigil weren't up to the task because their leaders were either screwing around or too weak and spineless to take a stand on anything.
All the obvious jaw dropping, lack of taking any responsibility comments asside, did any one notice the part where he says he might work on another project in the future for SOE............................
ARE YOU FREAKING KIDDING ME??? I hope to hell it's nothing more complicated than "Return of Frogger" because that man should be given a permanent banning form any sort of serious development environment. Forever!
Of course no one can know the man's intention and I'm sure on some level he's not a horrible, horrible man (I'm reaching here, I know) but dear god. He doesn't show up for everyone being fired because he was going to break down and cry? OK, SO WHAT?? Cry, these people came to YOUR company because of YOUR vision and now they're canned because of YOUR screw ups. Being shown a little emotion is the least they deserve.
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Microsoft got too demanding and impatient and was distracted with the X Box and after Sigil got away from them things got weird inside Sigil.
it was kind of like a real soap opera.cheating on your spouse and a power struggle for control of things.people like me won't ever know what really happened but i still stick up for Brad.he trusted these people and gave them jobs and they went behind his back and i think eventually things got way out of hand.
A coup attempt! Do you guys know what that means?Everyone turned on the captain!how could the captain command the ship when they were all against him?
I think there are some people who are not getting their fair share of blame and you guys are being way too mean to Brad.
i read that there was a "coup" attempt.What really happened? we will never know but i think brad is getting too much blame.
The boss never really does anything ,that is how real life is.So i think it's not mostly his fault.
I think Brad is the goat,but it's the guy just under him who should get the biggest blame.
Witch hunt? The guy had $30+ million to spend, the backing of Microsoft, and 4+ years to develop his game. Had Sigil actually had some discipline in running the show, with those nasty schedules and deadlines that Brad seems to hate so much, they might have done two things:
1. Put out a much better, more focused game, since, you know, businesses run much more smoothly when you have a freaking plan,
and
2. If Microsoft had seen results that they felt were on the right track, SOE would never have entered the picture at all. MS is a company that will fund something, regardless of any potential losses, if they feel it is worthwhile. Just look at their consoles-- they're losing hundreds of dollars on each one sold and they don't care, because they believe in them that strongly. Had Vanguard been developed properly, with real progress, real direction and clarity, and a stable operation, then MS probably would have kept them on.
Instead, what did Microsoft get for their time and money? A company that was so disorganized and poorly run that the second in command was openly nailing the marketing director while his wife was in the same office. They got a CEO who's apparently a eunuch, since he lacked the balls to be a real leader when it counted, like when it came to maintaining a production schedule for his game, or hiring and firing people, and who doesn't even have the decency to show up when half his employees are laid off in a freaking parking lot because he might cry. WTF?
The fact that Sigil managed to release a game at all, given the chaos and total mismanagement that clearly plagued them, is a fucking miracle. And Brad McQuaid has done the one thing that I didn't believe possible-- he made Smed and the rest of SOE look even better by all of this than they did before.
If anything, SOE should be given Good Samaritan awards for taking on this project and trying to turn it around. Clearly, Sigil weren't up to the task because their leaders were either screwing around or too weak and spineless to take a stand on anything.
Thank You!!!!I would like to add, that he's a public figure, the CEO of the company, and hyped this game to be the game of all games. If you're going to court the public like a demi-god be prepared to face the backlash when you screw up.
No this isnt a witch hunt. Witch hunts imply that there is no basis for the public flogging. As clearly shown, time and time again, this isnt the case.
Wow. It amazes me that a CEO could have his head so far up his behind for so long on so many fronts. Not only did he stumble through the last 6+ years ignoring industry trends and sinking 30+ million bucks into a game that essentially is intended for a niche market in today's MMORPG landscape, but he was oblivious to all the warning bells going off around him throughout the course of production of this game. The fact that he shamelessly washes his hands of any responsibility for the downfall of Sigil and the failure of the game is insane. Blame the XBOX 360 for Microsoft dumping the project? C'mon! Can we blame the PS3 if Sony decides to axe this project somewhere down the line?
My favorite part of the interview had to be when he apologized for not being at the company firing because he would have cried. Good example to set as a CEO and a "religious person." That's the sign of a great leader--shirk all responsibility and then bawl like a baby when things go down the tubes. He gets to cry all the way to a cushy advisory position at SOE while half his company have to find new jobs.
A CEO with no focus, no gameplan, no head for business, no leadership skills, and no sense of accountability for his actions. Not someone I'd want the security of my job hinging on. His treatment, or lack there of, of his employees is downright disgusting. It makes me wonder if this guy has worked an honest day in his life.
Very well said.
To be quite frank if you are ready to admit several times you don't have the backbone to be a CEO, and that you don't have the management and time management skills to be a CEO, then don't be a CEO. Especially of a small company like this where you need strong leadership. I can't honestly believe the excuses he gives about Microsoft being hard on deadlines, when employees of Sigil have even said the game that shipped was created almost entirely in the last year and a half AND that they were creating fluff content to give the Microsoft boys something to look at, knowing it was worthless. You can blame Microsoft for being a bit harsh on deadlines but what would you do if you had the resources they have and some independant development company is jerking you around? (which is probably what Microsoft thought and apparently was true!).
AND NOW he has the idea that it's ok to make up MORE excuses and throw out some overly verbose rant, repeating Zoo Tycoon over and over as if to talk down about the ability of the people he was forced to work with. How can Brad Mcquaid say that any other person doesn't understand MMO development when he has admitted time, time and time again HOW many times he screwed it up and didn't understand it himself? He couldn't manage the process despite having a virtual pile of money and half a decade and in the end still relied on the lower level dev teams (the ones probably out on the streets) to work 12+hours a day to play catch up for his years of playing hypemaster instead of a leader . Why do they do this? Because they cared for one thing, and they knew it was their JOB (Even though they seem to have been taken advantage of).
Where is he during these last few, long ass days on the home stretch? "I was out meeting venture capitalists, trying to get money to finish this project, keep it running, and possibly a second one in the future." A second one in the future? I don't buy this excuse for a second. If the state of the game is such that your people are working that long of days and things are still rocky in terms of deadlines, you have to spend time leading your team.
After they do that how does he repay his employees at launch day? "Well I knew bad things were forthcoming and I just couldn't face them" How cowardly of you to not even pay respect to the work these people did, busting their ass and giving up hours and hours of personal time and sleep to make sure your investment had some revenue coming back in to you and that you didn't lose face any further.
How does he show respect on doomsday? "Well I was pretty emotional and it's kind of corny but I knew I would cry" Corny isn't exactly the word I would use, Mr. McQuaid. Yes it sucks and you never wanted it to happen, but you are still the leader. It must've been real hard to sit back and conduct that interview, especially without looking the people who gave you their all in the face.
I'm sure it's been tough on him emotionally and all that jazz, but to be honest when you take and put other people's livelihood as your responsibility, you are forced to do all kinds of things that you don't like and shucking those responsibilties off for months and months is inexcusable. You could've stepped down officially and gone out and found someone competant in the field to finish your job, but you chose the dishonorable route instead.
Being the boss is in his situation is not about being someone's buddy. It's not about sitting back and avoiding everyone when you feel a little uncomfortable about something. It's about having integrity and doing the job that YOU created for yourself.
Integrity is doing the right thing, even when noone else is looking. This time a ton of people are watching and he wants to hide in a corner and "en-vision" how things could've been.
That was a long rant but this guy is rediculous.
Supernerd, I would agree that Brad is being overly villianised. However, if consider the past and the recent interviews given it paints a pretty clear picture that Brads pride and lack of management skills was the number one reason that vanguard failed. That being the case, of course he is to "blame." The fact that there was an attempted coup is only further evidence to what degree Brad's mismanagmnet manifested and the degree of the development team's desire to be successful.
Someone help me here. When was Vanguard first conceived and when was Sigil formed. It's my understanding that late 2002 was the birth of Sigil and the concept phase for Vanguard. Is this correct? When did Sigil become a working partner with Microsoft? I can not find archives on this. I had a feeling that Microsoft came on board fairly soon after Sigil was formed. Sometime in 2003? My point here is this. I am assuming that Vanguard was at least well into the designing phase before Microsoft was ready to release their Xbox 360. Somehow, I just can't keep this strange feeling away, but it sounds as though someone was stonewalling about what was really going on. I feel as though the guys and their intrepid leader, Brad, had plenty of time to get the ball rolling on this MMO. However, I just keep reading line after line after line of excuses and mini-whines about why the game just wasn't getting it done. Yes, Microsoft is a behemeth conglomerate. But, with that said, they are also very, very successful. Love them or hate them you have to admit Microsoft is a cornerstone for most software out there.
I just am NOT going to accept that Xbox 360 and the lack of direction from a group of guys/gals from that "Tycoons" game was the root to all the evil here. There is more than meets the eye here, folks. Vanguard had the money. Vanguard had the support. Vanguard had the team. Most importantly, Vanguard had the time to make that first Microsoft due date in the summer of 2006. You know, if you have a dream...then dream it...make it happen. To excuse your way out of blame is so totally lame, here. Where was Brad when his comrades were fired, by the way?
No more sympathy from me here, folks. This game was botched.
Now, SoE has this game. They already have a very successful MMO in EverQuest 2. I am not all that sure the want to dabble in 2 MMO's when subscription numbers are not the strongest in EQ 2. Let's just witness what actually transpires with SoE and Sigil. Again, my gut says SoE will basically ignore this MMO. It will slowly fade, but not completely fade away.
The dream is over as far as I'm concerned and I'm very irritated with all this "drama".
SoE, either fix the damn game or can it. No more bullsh*t!
All I want is the truth
Just gimme some truth
John Lennon
I think Brad fell victim to believing the hype about himself. He seems very immature and it appears he surrounded himself with "yes men" to blinded by "the man" to actually see what was going on.
Watch your thoughts; they become words.
Watch your words; they become actions.
Watch your actions; they become habits.
Watch your habits; they become character.
Watch your character; it becomes your destiny.
Lao-Tze
Micrsoft gave Brad 30+ million dollars to make a Triple A MMORPG. If they asked him to do a naked tap dance he needed to be asking what sort of shoes he should wear. They paid for the right to start asking questions and wondering why Sigil couldn't show anything of value to it's fans, to E3 and most importantly to MS, their investor. Who cares if they started focusing on the Xbox 360, they had given you 30 million dollars and you didn't do anything with it.
Most of the time when a Mutiny happens it's because the captain is doing something stupid like ramming into the same iceberg over and over. Read the developer post and his interview over again and tell me that Brad isn't a pig headed selfish wank who probably never listnened to his employees.
I will agree that Brad isn't the only one to blame but everyone else sunk with the ship while Brad stayed home. I know he has watched enough Star Trek to know that you always go down with the ship. He may have hid from his employees but the fans will sink him now.
Important Information regarding Posting and You
For over a year I have been posting in this forum telling people a lot of the things Brad says about Vanguard is a pack of lies. I have been called a "troll" a "hater", a "noob" - you name it, I've been called it. Finally people see that what this man says is not Gospel, and he has been exposed and discredited, which was long overdue. Now that the era of mystique and idolatization of Brad McQuaid is over, people are starting to notice that a lot of the time when this man is speaking, he isn't telling the truth - something I saw a long time ago.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
To the guy who thinks Brad is a red-head. Are you confusing him with Jeff Butler?
To all those who havent read all the way to the bottom of the interview, there is an addendum that clarifies Jeff and Michelle Butler were in the process of divorcing when he started dating April. An amicable divorce may seem unthinkable to some of you but is more common than you realise.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Man, this whole sigil buys SOE, fires half employes, SOE speaks about office soap opera has been more entertaining then the actual game. I wish they made a MMO of about this...
Past: EQ, EQ2, DAoC, SWG, WoW, LotR, VG, WAR, GW, GW2, Rift
Present: The Elder Scrolls Online
Future: Everquest Next
I seldom post here; though, I read the posts religiously. I just felt compelled to write something…for some reason.
I bought Vanguard. I loaded it, patched it, and fired it up. The game just doesn’t work on my system. The lag was too great and I had been expecting something akin to EQ2 in looks versus performance. That’s all I’ll say on it. I knew it wasn’t ready yet so…it’s my lost $50.
It is terrible what has happened to the employees of this company. I’ve worked in the IT field for 11 years. I’ve been with a very large company and a few small ones. I can assure you that programming is a very stressful job. People invest millions in your app (or in this case, game) and expect results. I know the pain of lost hours with family and loved ones do to work commitments. I know the indifference of people expecting your application now. I know how people end up “together” due to long hours together having things in common.
My heart goes out to all the staff that worked on VG. It’s a terrible blow when you are terminated. I hope that each of you are able to get back on your feet, dust yourself off, and continue to do what it is you love.
Brad…if you read this, I’ve grown much respect for you over the last few days. You’ve taken your lumps and kept your chin high. Many, many people that are upset have no idea what it like to work in a coding production environment, to work with (for) someone like Microsoft, or to gather venture capital. It’s a hard, hard life; but, we do it because we love it.
My thoughts are with you, Brad and each member of the VG staff.
LMAO
they need to make a SIM game about making your own MMOG
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
From Supernerd: "The boss never really does anything, that's how real life is."
A real CEO in a real corporate environment in real life does do things. Lots of things. Like ensuring the middle management's ramant nepotism gets squashed post-haste, lest the feds come in and start investigating. A real CEO makes damn sure production moves along so investors remain happy and employees keep their jobs doing what they love to do. A real CEO plays the delicate balancing act between creative vision and realistic business development because no one else in the company wants to make those decisions - the CEO has to. A real CEO doesn't piss away $30+ million of investment capital and 6+ years of development time. A real CEO fires a guy for spending more time with his pants off in some seedy hotel with a fellow employee than working with his wife, also employed by the same CEO, actually developing the game. A real CEO - hell, a real man - actually understands what it is to say, "the buck stops here," rather than quoting it over the phone to some schmuck he doesn't know and promptly shirking all responsibility for his woeful ineptitude.
A real CEO actually runs the company. When a real CEO is doing his job, it appears to some people who don't know the nuts and bolts of corporate management that he isn't doing anything. The company is functional and all the other things he has delegated - development, art design, everything else - is going smoothly largely because of the CEO's management. The night manager at McDonald's probably doesn't do shit - but he's not a CEO, or even a real business manager. A real CEO, like Brad wanted us all to believe he was, has one hell of a lot of responsibility. This responsibility is first and foremost to his employees, and it speaks volumes about that CEO as a professional and as a man that he can't find the balls to face his employees when half of them are fired on very short notice in the godforsaken parking lot.
It has nothing to do with divorce and everything to do with a stable, professional office environment. I personally don't care that Butler was fucking the marketing director while getting divorced from his wife. The point is, they did all of that in the same office, and it was openly known. THAT is the issue.
I used to work in radio many years back, and one of the first and foremost rules was that office relationships were verboten because they got in the way of a professional environment. If two people showed interest in each other, it was "suggested" that they keep it all out of the office, and more often than not, one of the people involved would end up going to work elsewhere so they could work in a career they liked, and be with someone they wanted. The relationship itself isn't the issue. It's the effect that kind of soap opera shit has on an office and its morale that is the point.
When you've got dozens of employees and millions on the line, that kind of drama has to take a backseat to getting the job done. When people know that sort of stuff is going on, and nothing is done about it, it starts to get in the way of anything being done, and people start getting more lax about things. Why should they care about something being done professionally, or with any sort of care when even at the highest levels, something like that is going on, and everyone knows?
Haha I imagine a lot of people out there would line up for a chance to "crit" some of their favorite real life people from the MMO industry...
You know Brad, Smed....
*You have looted 1 Smed's Axe Of p0werz from Smed the Destroyer*