Yeah least everyone else in the market can now see that massive changes simply do not give a good return on investment. By Smedleys own words they will not be doing it again any time soon as it does not work.
Yeah least everyone else in the market can now see that massive changes simply do not give a good return on investment. By Smedleys own words they will not be doing it again any time soon as it does not work.
All the more reason to being back the pre-cu. I mean ffs... seriously... it wouldn't be that hard.
Seriously, if they are so worried that turning it into pre-cu would be another disaster.. RELEASE A FREAKING POLL.
I GUARANTEE that at least 80% of the votes would favor the pre-cu... at LEAST.
sorry.. getting on the soapbox again... *shoves it back under the bed*
"Do not fret! Your captain is about to enter Valhalla!" - General Beatrix of Alexandria
"The acquisition of knowledge is of use to the intellect, for nothing can be loved or hated without first being known." - Leo da Vinci
Yeah least everyone else in the market can now see that massive changes simply do not give a good return on investment. By Smedleys own words they will not be doing it again any time soon as it does not work.
All the more reason to being back the pre-cu. I mean ffs... seriously... it wouldn't be that hard.
Seriously, if they are so worried that turning it into pre-cu would be another disaster.. RELEASE A FREAKING POLL.
I GUARANTEE that at least 80% of the votes would favor the pre-cu... at LEAST.
sorry.. getting on the soapbox again... *shoves it back under the bed*
Hehe yeah i know what you mean mate. They would get more suscribers than they did before, thats a definate. However i just cannot see it happening from a business perspective. Maybe classic servers at a real push but no reverting.
The original post is a fine examination of the causes of the longterm and widespread hostility that SOE now faces within the MMOG community.
However, I would say that the reasons the original poster outlined are not complete - and that there are more, many more, reasons beyond those cited here that SOE is disliked and the post-NGE SWG has such a poor reputation.
For example, here are my own reasons - either not covered or only partially covered by the original posters - for continuing to regard SOE with such hostility and using whatever forums I find to dissuade those considering playing SWG.
1/. I played the game for a long time and invested many hours in creating a character that was powerful and well-equipped. I did so according to the rules and the spirit of the game. The NGE without warning or guidance rendered all that time spent playing essentially useless. It was an axiomatic mistake by SWG: 'You don't take away prizes already won'.
2/. I enjoyed the open-endedness of the game and many possibilities for interaction - not just PVE and PVE combat but also crafting, city-planning, flight, economics. The simplification of the game was believed to have been justified by SOE - though this has never been stated overtly - to make it more like WoW, a million plus subscriber game which, compared to SWG, was simpler and more linear. However, another incredibly stupid mistake, SOE did not see there was another million plus subscriber game model which they could have emulated - Second Life. That game is complex, rich and infinite. By deciding to build the lowest possible denominator into SWG, SOE patronised and insulted its player base.
3/. SOE not only refuses to listen to those who communicate with them but insults those who even use the official channels. Twice now, SOE rperesentatives have indicated that those who post on the game's official forums are not represenative of the opinions and views of those who play the game. 'Only 10% of players post here', they say, 'The rest play the game [and by implication are perfectly happy]'. Those idiots never understood a basic rule of corporate coms; that the percentage of views expressed by representatives of a larger body is the same as the percentage within the larger body itself. SOE's policy towards posters trying to express their feelings, suggestions and views was insulting. At best, such communications were ignored and, at worst, penalised by bannings and suspensions.
If you add these three reasons - my own personal take on the SWG fiasco - to the original posters own list, you get some idea of the mutli-system, multi-channel failure of SOE regarding SWG. And yet no one has been fired for these failures, no one has been penalised. One day, I hope that Sony's shareholders or trhe decision makers at LA will see what a pig's ear Smedley and his team made out of a solid, impressive game and its loyal fanbase - and punish him for the lost revenues and degraded brand values for which he is responsible.
But why constantly cry about it everywhere like a 5 year old who had his favorite toy taken away? (dont take that as an insult.) After all I am going on a limb to assume most of you are adults.
It's cathartic. And besides which, it's always nice to nostalgic about the good ol' days before X, Y, and/or Z came along and ruined it. The post seemed to be more reflective than 'crying,' anyway - Intellectual sort of observations, and so on.
Anyway, even tho' I don't, and never really did, play SWG, I found the post to be eloquently crafted and rather reminiscent of what the UO vets went through when certain expansions were released that cut the game world in half, and made it completely reliant on a Diablo-esque item system.
Now I'm all depressed.
There is another reason too. I genuinely believe that angry consumers who refuse to accept that 'X is dead and never coming back' and 'Y is over, let it go' have a long and glorious tradition of eventually getting their own way in the end, despite al the contempt and anger inflicted on them along the way.
I mean, look at Classic Coke, Sherlock Holmes, the VW Beatle and Futurama - all products which were officially killed off. Yet, the vehemence of their fans brought them back from the dead.
We already know that Smedley, the head of SOE, now accepts that the NGE was a huge mistake. We also know that - according to statements made at the most recengt summit - that the Developer team is concentrating now on bringing back Vets to the game rather than attracting new players. I firmly believe that whether SOE does this step by step (or chapter by chapter) or in one fell swoop, pre-NGE will one day return.
And when it does, it will be because many thousands, perhaps tens or even hundreds of thousands of players of whom I am proud to have played a humble part, refused to accept what we were told or to face a 'reality' that we knew was false.
And let us not forget that Smedley wont be around forever. A new CEO may have a different perspective when it comes to classic servers. When that day comes when a new CEO is in town then it will be up to us to ensure that he/she gets our message.
Originally posted by hubertgrove
We already know that Smedley, the head of SOE, now accepts that the NGE was a huge mistake. We also know that - according to statements made at the most recengt summit - that the Developer team is concentrating now on bringing back Vets to the game rather than attracting new players. I firmly believe that whether SOE does this step by step (or chapter by chapter) or in one fell swoop, pre-NGE will one day return. And when it does, it will be because many thousands, perhaps tens or even hundreds of thousands of players of whom I am proud to have played a humble part, refused to accept what we were told or to face a 'reality' that we knew was false.
The original post is a fine examination of the causes of the longterm and widespread hostility that SOE now faces within the MMOG community. However, I would say that the reasons the original poster outlined are not complete - and that there are more, many more, reasons beyond those cited here that SOE is disliked and the post-NGE SWG has such a poor reputation. For example, here are my own reasons - either not covered or only partially covered by the original posters - for continuing to regard SOE with such hostility and using whatever forums I find to dissuade those considering playing SWG. 1/. I played the game for a long time and invested many hours in creating a character that was powerful and well-equipped. I did so according to the rules and the spirit of the game. The NGE without warning or guidance rendered all that time spent playing essentially useless. It was an axiomatic mistake by SWG: 'You don't take away prizes already won'. 2/. I enjoyed the open-endedness of the game and many possibilities for interaction - not just PVE and PVE combat but also crafting, city-planning, flight, economics. The simplification of the game was believed to have been justified by SOE - though this has never been stated overtly - to make it more like WoW, a million plus subscriber game which, compared to SWG, was simpler and more linear. However, another incredibly stupid mistake, SOE did not see there was another million plus subscriber game model which they could have emulated - Second Life. That game is complex, rich and infinite. By deciding to build the lowest possible denominator into SWG, SOE patronised and insulted its player base. 3/. SOE not only refuses to listen to those who communicate with them but insults those who even use the official channels. Twice now, SOE rperesentatives have indicated that those who post on the game's official forums are not represenative of the opinions and views of those who play the game. 'Only 10% of players post here', they say, 'The rest play the game [and by implication are perfectly happy]'. Those idiots never understood a basic rule of corporate coms; that the percentage of views expressed by representatives of a larger body is the same as the percentage within the larger body itself. SOE's policy towards posters trying to express their feelings, suggestions and views was insulting. At best, such communications were ignored and, at worst, penalised by bannings and suspensions. If you add these three reasons - my own personal take on the SWG fiasco - to the original posters own list, you get some idea of the mutli-system, multi-channel failure of SOE regarding SWG. And yet no one has been fired for these failures, no one has been penalised. One day, I hope that Sony's shareholders or trhe decision makers at LA will see what a pig's ear Smedley and his team made out of a solid, impressive game and its loyal fanbase - and punish him for the lost revenues and degraded brand values for which he is responsible.
No doubt there are other reasons. I wanted to avoid a lot of the gameplay specific stuff. However, reason 3 is a solid reason that I probably should've incoporated a little more explicitly. Yes the whole "most people don't post in the forums" bit is true, but irrelevant. most people don't voice their opinions vocally. However, one can get a pretty good understanding of the "silent majority" (oh how i hate that phrase but i can't think of another) by understanding what the vocal minority is currently saying. While at times you do have the vocal minority drowning out the majority, this wasn't the case with SWG. Why people's opinions need to be listened to, rather than dismissed outright.
In this specific case, the opinions towards the changes SOE made were striking (in forum postings at the time) about 9 or 10 negatives for every one positive. With the NGE, this was even higher. (I would argue 15 negatives for one positive, even with the constant bannings.) But I think this is the classic case of what happens when you stuff your team with people who tell the higher ups what they want to hear, not what they need to hear.
It appears nowhere along the path to the NGE was there any real criticism within SOE amongst those who honestly needed to step up. Smedley, Torres, and gang were taken by complete surprise. Why? Anyone who isn't a tone-deaf beaucrat (sp?) could've seen changing SWG to a hybrid FPS/WoW clone, or getting people to buy an expansion promising items you knew would not exist was gonna cause a massive protest and outcry. Given the forceful action Garva and others used on the forum, one can allude to they had no clue what hit them. Had they known, or at least given any anticipation, they would've responded with something less than raw coercive power, using forum bannings to attempt to get the numbers they wanted.
3/. SOE not only refuses to listen to those who communicate with them but insults those who even use the official channels. Twice now, SOE rperesentatives have indicated that those who post on the game's official forums are not represenative of the opinions and views of those who play the game. 'Only 10% of players post here', they say, 'The rest play the game [and by implication are perfectly happy]'. Those idiots never understood a basic rule of corporate coms; that the percentage of views expressed by representatives of a larger body is the same as the percentage within the larger body itself. SOE's policy towards posters trying to express their feelings, suggestions and views was insulting. At best, such communications were ignored and, at worst, penalised by bannings and suspensions.
I was in a PA with perhaps 50 members in it, but I was far and away the most vocal member of that guild in the fora. There were perhaps 10 or so others who posted frequently in the fora but none of them got even close to my post level or visiblity level in the Ahazi galaxy forum, or for that matter in the Creature Handler forum or a number of other profession fora.
Yet I can honestly say that I was expressing a group consensus about the game, and I was one of the "vocal minority" that SOE chose to blow off as "unrepresentative".
The NGE killed my PA. All but one member of the PA left the game, and that one member only stayed because of space, and that WoW's world was unappealing to him ("I can't be a damn elf!"). The PA reformed over at WoW, but it's never been quite the same, even with new folks joining us that never played SWG, I think in part because WoW is simply not SWG.
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
Comments
Seriously, if they are so worried that turning it into pre-cu would be another disaster.. RELEASE A FREAKING POLL.
I GUARANTEE that at least 80% of the votes would favor the pre-cu... at LEAST.
sorry.. getting on the soapbox again... *shoves it back under the bed*
"Do not fret! Your captain is about to enter Valhalla!" - General Beatrix of Alexandria
"The acquisition of knowledge is of use to the intellect, for nothing can be loved or hated without first being known." - Leo da Vinci
Seriously, if they are so worried that turning it into pre-cu would be another disaster.. RELEASE A FREAKING POLL.
I GUARANTEE that at least 80% of the votes would favor the pre-cu... at LEAST.
sorry.. getting on the soapbox again... *shoves it back under the bed*
Hehe yeah i know what you mean mate. They would get more suscribers than they did before, thats a definate. However i just cannot see it happening from a business perspective. Maybe classic servers at a real push but no reverting.
The original post is a fine examination of the causes of the longterm and widespread hostility that SOE now faces within the MMOG community.
However, I would say that the reasons the original poster outlined are not complete - and that there are more, many more, reasons beyond those cited here that SOE is disliked and the post-NGE SWG has such a poor reputation.
For example, here are my own reasons - either not covered or only partially covered by the original posters - for continuing to regard SOE with such hostility and using whatever forums I find to dissuade those considering playing SWG.
1/. I played the game for a long time and invested many hours in creating a character that was powerful and well-equipped. I did so according to the rules and the spirit of the game. The NGE without warning or guidance rendered all that time spent playing essentially useless. It was an axiomatic mistake by SWG: 'You don't take away prizes already won'.
2/. I enjoyed the open-endedness of the game and many possibilities for interaction - not just PVE and PVE combat but also crafting, city-planning, flight, economics. The simplification of the game was believed to have been justified by SOE - though this has never been stated overtly - to make it more like WoW, a million plus subscriber game which, compared to SWG, was simpler and more linear. However, another incredibly stupid mistake, SOE did not see there was another million plus subscriber game model which they could have emulated - Second Life. That game is complex, rich and infinite. By deciding to build the lowest possible denominator into SWG, SOE patronised and insulted its player base.
3/. SOE not only refuses to listen to those who communicate with them but insults those who even use the official channels. Twice now, SOE rperesentatives have indicated that those who post on the game's official forums are not represenative of the opinions and views of those who play the game. 'Only 10% of players post here', they say, 'The rest play the game [and by implication are perfectly happy]'. Those idiots never understood a basic rule of corporate coms; that the percentage of views expressed by representatives of a larger body is the same as the percentage within the larger body itself. SOE's policy towards posters trying to express their feelings, suggestions and views was insulting. At best, such communications were ignored and, at worst, penalised by bannings and suspensions.
If you add these three reasons - my own personal take on the SWG fiasco - to the original posters own list, you get some idea of the mutli-system, multi-channel failure of SOE regarding SWG. And yet no one has been fired for these failures, no one has been penalised. One day, I hope that Sony's shareholders or trhe decision makers at LA will see what a pig's ear Smedley and his team made out of a solid, impressive game and its loyal fanbase - and punish him for the lost revenues and degraded brand values for which he is responsible.
Anyway, even tho' I don't, and never really did, play SWG, I found the post to be eloquently crafted and rather reminiscent of what the UO vets went through when certain expansions were released that cut the game world in half, and made it completely reliant on a Diablo-esque item system.
Now I'm all depressed.
There is another reason too. I genuinely believe that angry consumers who refuse to accept that 'X is dead and never coming back' and 'Y is over, let it go' have a long and glorious tradition of eventually getting their own way in the end, despite al the contempt and anger inflicted on them along the way.
I mean, look at Classic Coke, Sherlock Holmes, the VW Beatle and Futurama - all products which were officially killed off. Yet, the vehemence of their fans brought them back from the dead.
We already know that Smedley, the head of SOE, now accepts that the NGE was a huge mistake. We also know that - according to statements made at the most recengt summit - that the Developer team is concentrating now on bringing back Vets to the game rather than attracting new players. I firmly believe that whether SOE does this step by step (or chapter by chapter) or in one fell swoop, pre-NGE will one day return.
And when it does, it will be because many thousands, perhaps tens or even hundreds of thousands of players of whom I am proud to have played a humble part, refused to accept what we were told or to face a 'reality' that we knew was false.
And let us not forget that Smedley wont be around forever. A new CEO may have a different perspective when it comes to classic servers. When that day comes when a new CEO is in town then it will be up to us to ensure that he/she gets our message.
No doubt there are other reasons. I wanted to avoid a lot of the gameplay specific stuff. However, reason 3 is a solid reason that I probably should've incoporated a little more explicitly. Yes the whole "most people don't post in the forums" bit is true, but irrelevant. most people don't voice their opinions vocally. However, one can get a pretty good understanding of the "silent majority" (oh how i hate that phrase but i can't think of another) by understanding what the vocal minority is currently saying. While at times you do have the vocal minority drowning out the majority, this wasn't the case with SWG. Why people's opinions need to be listened to, rather than dismissed outright.
In this specific case, the opinions towards the changes SOE made were striking (in forum postings at the time) about 9 or 10 negatives for every one positive. With the NGE, this was even higher. (I would argue 15 negatives for one positive, even with the constant bannings.) But I think this is the classic case of what happens when you stuff your team with people who tell the higher ups what they want to hear, not what they need to hear.
It appears nowhere along the path to the NGE was there any real criticism within SOE amongst those who honestly needed to step up. Smedley, Torres, and gang were taken by complete surprise. Why? Anyone who isn't a tone-deaf beaucrat (sp?) could've seen changing SWG to a hybrid FPS/WoW clone, or getting people to buy an expansion promising items you knew would not exist was gonna cause a massive protest and outcry. Given the forceful action Garva and others used on the forum, one can allude to they had no clue what hit them. Had they known, or at least given any anticipation, they would've responded with something less than raw coercive power, using forum bannings to attempt to get the numbers they wanted.
I was in a PA with perhaps 50 members in it, but I was far and away the most vocal member of that guild in the fora. There were perhaps 10 or so others who posted frequently in the fora but none of them got even close to my post level or visiblity level in the Ahazi galaxy forum, or for that matter in the Creature Handler forum or a number of other profession fora.
Yet I can honestly say that I was expressing a group consensus about the game, and I was one of the "vocal minority" that SOE chose to blow off as "unrepresentative".
The NGE killed my PA. All but one member of the PA left the game, and that one member only stayed because of space, and that WoW's world was unappealing to him ("I can't be a damn elf!"). The PA reformed over at WoW, but it's never been quite the same, even with new folks joining us that never played SWG, I think in part because WoW is simply not SWG.
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
Once a denizen of Ahazi
Good job op.