Another thing I seem to recall is that there were quite a few people (claiming) to break the NDA during Vanguard's Closed Beta to let everyone know how bad it really was. Anyone else remember that? Wouldn't we have the same type of thing happening if PotBS was bad? I dunno, maybe not relevant but wtf. And lol@stickiedthreadimo
Well VG was really bad.... Is it possible for PoTBS to be that bad? ... I doubt it since IMO VG was the single handedly worst released MMO ever only because it was bug infested and not finished. If they would of put some polish on it it would have been just a standard MMO not really innovative with classical MMO origins...
Secondly OMFG this thread is still going ?
Games Enjoyed: UO,EQ,AC,EQ2,COX,LOTRO Games Played(-Above):WoW,MXO,GW(beta),RFO,ArchLord,V:SOH,Rappelz,Ryzom,DDO Games I felt were a rip-off: DDO,ArchLord,V:SOH - all newer how ironic
FLS will need more cash and time's and that where Sony know's best. Sony is seeking developers who are fragile in need of cash to buy time's by trying to finish the overall so called balance with bug's to catch.. you with me savvy?.
FLS and Sigil walked the plank and Sony pushed them over!. SAVVY!.
Another thing I seem to recall is that there were quite a few people (claiming) to break the NDA during Vanguard's Closed Beta to let everyone know how bad it really was. Anyone else remember that? Wouldn't we have the same type of thing happening if PotBS was bad? I dunno, maybe not relevant but wtf.
Sure I remember that, they started around beta3 I think which was a few months before release if I'm not mistaken.
I also entered beta at that stage and couldn't believe the game was so unfriendly and cumbersome to play. But fans in beta forums just defended it saying (screaming rather) that it was beta and it would get better. Which it did, but not enough.
You guys must of all argued the same points over and over, in the end the game has not released yet so we do not know how soe will effect it, if at all.
btw why has a whine/troll thread been stickied lol
We need to keep a few things straight here in this discussion.
When talking about "SOE" we need to differentiate between SOE (Sony Online Entertainment) and PP (Platform Publishing) which is a DBA (Doing Business As) of SOE. It is a publishing company only, that has now been used by a few "people" including Disney. It also distinguishes itself from the internal SOE MMO business. In other words, while related, they are not the same.
Many do not know it, but it is a rat race to compete with other products in the retail market. What this means is that it is very hard to get box space on a store shelf nowadays without having drawing power. The Sony name brings with it, this drawing and name recognition power. Which some of the new companies will need (at least for their first effort in the game market).
We also need to realize that SONY and Sigil were "in bed" with each other a lot more than is commonly believed from the start. It was not just a (PP) publishing deal. They (Sigil) were also involved heavily with SOE in a direct manor. SOE handled billing, had VG as part of the station pass and the game was on SOE servers. So. SOE (not PP) also had a lot of money tied up in the project. They made a smart business move (for themselves) by buying the company (Sigil) out so that they (SOE) would not also see a substantial loss and could continue on with a good part of the Sigil team staying in place (and the money to back them up).
I do not think you would see that kind of thing with a straight PP deal such as Perpetual Entertainment has. Other than producing discs and finding shelf space for them, their is no investment.
As for POTBS, well, that is a story for another day.
Beat me to it, Woody! It takes a while to read through the 12 pages added since I went to bed. He's right. We're doing our own servers. Sony does distribution and marketing, both of which they're quite good at. Really, to summarize all 26 pages of this thread, this all comes down to a few camps of people: 1. People who don't care who publishes the game as long as it's good. 2. People who've had bad experiences with every company and so don't like any of them. But they love games so they judge each game as it comes along. 3. People who've had a bad experience with SOE but trust us to take care of ourselves. 4. People who are sure SOE will mess up the game some how, but are willing to check it out anyway. 5. People who don't care how good the game is, because for them it's become a matter of principal to avoid SOE. 6. People who wouldn't have found our game if it weren't for SOE's marketing and distribution, but now will. Groups 1, 2, 3, and 4 we can take care of by doing *our * job and releasing a solid and fun game. Some people will hold back on trying it to make sure it's not another Vanguard, but that's fine. I'm not Brad McQuaid so I'm not worried about them. Group 5 we can't do anything about anyway, because for them it's a religious issue, and you can't argue with that. From a business standpoint, we believe that group 6 is much larger than group 5. Digital distribution doesn't reach the Walmart crowd, or even a lot of the Best Buy/Gamestop crowd. While I admire the adherance to their principals that will keep group 5 away from our game, I'm sorry they won't get to enjoy it. But my admiration isn't enough to cause me to make a bad business decision for my company because of it. Rick Saada - FLS Dev and EPFBM
I don't know who you are but the line you used refering to the anti-soe crowd "because for them it's a religious issue" is insulting and untrue. I know my decision to not have anything to do with an soe game, even if it is only as a distributer and billing, is based on their own past actions of blatantly lying to misleading their customers, combined with their horrible customer service. How is refusing to deal with a company that engages in shady business practices a religious issue? Its the same reason people have boycotted Walmart, Exxon and many other companies. How does it make you feel to know that your dealing with a company that blatantly disrespects and lies to its customers? By signing a deal with them, and seeing what you and other devs of your game have said, you've basically said that you don't care what soe has done to its customers.
You and others try marginalize the concerns people have with soe yet there are very real and legitimate issues we have had with them. Yet, for some reason you ignore them and don't even address them. Somehow we're marked as just "haters". If a company or business screwed you and your friends and family the way soe has done (I don't mean the actual game play change with swg, I mean the whole way it was handled) would you continue to do business with them or not let others know what they did? You are now guilty by association, so deal with it. Your game could cure cancer and make peace in the middle east but theres no way I'll ever compromise my principles, like many people here seem willing to do, just so I can play your happy shiny new game. Having "fun" playing a video game isn't worth lowering my personal standards.
It wasn't meant to be insulting in the least. "Religious" issues aren't something you can't argue against with logic or fact, because they are a matter of faith, or in this case, principles. What I'm saying is that since you've made a stand based on principles there is nothing we can do or say that will change it, so there's no point in arguing. I wasn't saying this was bad in any way, and in fact stated that I admired people who were willing to do this (see above). I just said that for us to give up all the people who will see our game because Sony markets (group 6) it in order to keep the people who are in group 5 would be a bad business decision. This isn't anything against *you* at all. Heck, I have hopes that a lot of the SOE detractors will look at this as a chance for them to redeem themselves, at least in part, for their past problems.
There was an excellent post over in our forums about boycotts, here, if you want to read it:
But the gist of it is that if Sony is actually LEARNING the lesson that you want them to get (in this case hands off independant developers, letting them handle Customer Service, etc) then maintaining the boycott even AFTER they're changing might not be the best way to teach them a lesson. If you do that they have no incentive to change, ever. If on the other hand you see them behaving in the manner you are trying to encourage, it behooves you to reward that behavior. Kind of like parenting, actually.
In that light, I would hope that after we ship, if the game is good and Sony is behaving, a lot of the people who are now staying away will give it a chance.
Rick Saada - FLS Dev & EPFBM
You keep claiming SOE has learned their lesson and have changed their ways, but the only indicator you point to is that they made a deal with your company. That is a ridiculous statement. SOE has displayed absolutely no indication that they have made any positive changes outside of giving lipservice to their well known problems and taking no action to correct them. Is one of the terms of your contract with them that they will begin to act professionally towards their customers?
Most of the folks who don't want to give SOE money could care less about how they treat you, it is how they treated their own customers that is the problem. The folks who were burned by SWG and Vanguard are a minority of the folks who are upset with SOE. For the folks who were burned by Vanguard, your seemingly clueless, or more likely calculated, pimping of SOE as having turned over a new leaf, should raise a big red flag, since it comes across as more of the same of the empty words they read from Brad McQuaid.
SOE was unwilling to change while we were paying them. SOE is unwilling to change while we are vocal about not paying them. The difference is, now they are paying our complaints lipservice, while refusing to address them. Maybe if they actually implement some actual changes, not just the phantom ones you, and they, claim they have, some of us will be willing to do business with them again. Until that happens, your game, and the games of others like you, who choose to hook their leash to SOE, will get caught in the crossfire. It is unfortunate, especially since your game looks like it might be fun, but it is a very small price if it brings about a positive change. It isn't just SOE that is paying attention, and hopefully other companies will refrain from treating their customers the way SOE continues to. The worse part of the whole thing, to me, is that John Smedley, the president of SOE, is constantly saying how SOE needs to change this or that to gain back the trust of their former customers, yet those changes never come. Why would I even consider doing business with a company that knows what is broke, is willing to admit it publicly, yet refuses to actually fix the problems?
There is a reason most of your announcement, of the deal you made with SOE, consisted of your company trying to distance your product from SOE. It may be small, just words, but hopefully someday the reasons you felt the need to do that will affect an actual change. Everything has to start somewhere.
You keep claiming SOE has learned their lesson and have changed their ways, but the only indicator you point to is that they made a deal with your company.
I would say it more has to do with the TYPE of deal they got. SOE is NOT doing customer service, FLS is. SOE is NOT handling the servers, FLS is. SOE is NOT handling development, FLS is.
That seems like a change from the way SOE has done things with other games.
LoL wow this is PotBS' "We're angry at SOE thread"? Interesting.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ =The best bash.org quote ever= Curt teh Juggler: our graduation ceremony was today, and right when some gamer nerd got his diploma, someone in the audience played the zelda "get item" music and he did the zelda spin-hold-out-item stance Curt teh Juggler: it was quite possibly the most amazing thing ever.
I don't like SOE, I was orginally going to give this game a try, but after hearing about SOE, i decided to stay clear of it.
Ya i played SWG from launch, ya there a huge part in why it suffered the way it did, they turned a great game into a pile of dog poo. But thats not why I refuse to play there games. I refuse to play there game because there like leeches. I played EQ2 and got the same feeling, for extra money, you can play this dungeon etc etc. for this much money, blah blah blah. what a load of crap, what really gets me, is even when SWG was going through all those changes, SOE was more content with poping out xpacs. i felt robbed of the CU, and NGE, no biggie, companies make mistakes, that was 1 huge mistake, but they insulted ppl's intelligence when trying to push xpacs while getting robbed. I, as a paying customer, feel that SOE is a company that would rather get a few dollars now from ppl, turn around and stick there tongue out at you, then be an actual customer based corporation that is more concerned with keeping customer satisfaction. thats the company that SOE feels to me. everything from SWG, to EQ2, to dealing with there terrible billing has flagged any game that they touch a HELL NO.
sorry, but theres to many great games out there that are fun to play then putting up with a such a terrible company that has proven to be willing to knife there customers. enjoy the game while it last, it will flop out and be a subpar game at best in due time.
What in god's name is SOE offering that has so many of these companies signing up!?
Everquest - 2000 - '02 Anarchy Online - '01-'02 Earth and Beyond - '02-'04 Star Wars Galaxies - '03-'06('07) World of Warcraft - '04-'07 Age of Conan - '08 - shelved. -Waiting on- Star Trek Online SW: The Old Republic
Seriously... what's with the anti SOEists here? It's not like SWG, or Vanguard. Flying Labs will continue to hold development and customer service rights. SOE will handle the billing, the launcher, and the marketing... all the stuff they excel at.
This is a FANTASTIC thing for PotBS. Best thing that could have happened to a game that may have otherwise floundered in obscurity. If I was on the fence about it before, I'm surely onboard now - and so will MANY more players than there would have been if the SOE deal had never happened.
Im glad to see John Scotts Tynes remarks about the issues of signing with SOE. I think, if he expects me or anyone else to believe SOE did not have anything to do with rushing Vanguard that POTBS is doomed as well the question in the enterview was:
Your letter to your community announcing the deal with SOE mentioned that it was to be "platform published", making it different from SOE's internally developed games. The last title that SOE published in this way resulted in SOE's acquisition of that company (Sigil) as well as the game (Vanguard). What can you say to fans who fear the same fate for Flying Lab?
John Scott Tynes:
Sigil's troubles with Vanguard have been very publicly documented by Brad McQuaid himself and they had nothing to do with SOE. People who blame SOE for what happened to Sigil are either grossly misinformed or willfully blind for the sake of hating.
Brad did take some responsibility for the problems with VG, but all in all this seems to be a repeating problem with SOE there games are all unfinished. I dont think i have to say anything about SWG.
I have been looking forward to POTBS and promised my self i would not play anymore SOE games. When I saw that POTBS was teaming up with SOE I though I would vomit. I also thought that POTBS was smoking POT and it was BS. I will try the game to give them a chance, after all it is only a game isn't it? I just hope that POTBS allow thereselves the option to pull out at the first sign of trouble.
This Just in Sir! .... Flying Labs was last seen over SOE HQ in flames. Report shows no survivors. May god have mercy on there souls. O wait... the devil has them
EJECT EJECT!!! This Just in Sir! .... Flying Labs was last seen over SOE HQ in flames. Report shows no survivors. May god have mercy on there souls. O wait... the devil has them
EJECT EJECT!!! This Just in Sir! .... Flying Labs was last seen over SOE HQ in flames. Report shows no survivors. May god have mercy on there souls. O wait... the devil has them
Originally posted by Willyp76 Brad did take some responsibility for the problems with VG, but all in all this seems to be a repeating problem with SOE there games are all unfinished. I dont think i have to say anything about SWG. I have been looking forward to POTBS and promised my self i would not play anymore SOE games. When I saw that POTBS was teaming up with SOE I though I would vomit. I also thought that POTBS was smoking POT and it was BS. I will try the game to give them a chance, after all it is only a game isn't it? I just hope that POTBS allow thereselves the option to pull out at the first sign of trouble.
First, Vanguard WAS NOT, I repeat WAS NOT a SOE developed game. SOE HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THE GAME BEING UNFINISHED.
And there ISN'T going to be any problems. The only things that SOE is horrible at is Customer service and development both of which SOE has NOTHING to do with in PotBS.
EJECT EJECT!!! This Just in Sir! .... Flying Labs was last seen over SOE HQ in flames. Report shows no survivors. May god have mercy on there souls. O wait... the devil has them
What a prat POTBS doesn't need people like you please stay in these forums flaming...
________________________________________________________ Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
Seriously, why does MMORPG Sticky these flippn' useless threads where Fanboi's come and complain about SOE. Im sick and tired of this crap. Grow up people, they are called CORPORATIONS!! they dont have to care what you think if the $$$ is still rolling in. You people sitting here cluttering up the forums isn't going to change what they do or what will happen.
If you dont like it, dont buy it. otherwise go about your biz.
Seriously, why does MMORPG Sticky these flippn' useless threads where Fanboi's come and complain about SOE. Im sick and tired of this crap. Grow up people, they are called CORPORATIONS!! they dont have to care what you think if the $$$ is still rolling in. You people sitting here cluttering up the forums isn't going to change what they do or what will happen. If you dont like it, dont buy it. otherwise go about your biz.
There's only one reason the topics are stickied or even allowed in the first place and it's not in good conscience. There are over 10,000 views on this thread since it started 2 weeks ago meaning that's over 10,000 views for ads.
Comments
Secondly OMFG this thread is still going ?
Games Enjoyed: UO,EQ,AC,EQ2,COX,LOTRO
Games Played(-Above):WoW,MXO,GW(beta),RFO,ArchLord,V:SOH,Rappelz,Ryzom,DDO
Games I felt were a rip-off: DDO,ArchLord,V:SOH - all newer how ironic
FLS will need more cash and time's and that where Sony know's best. Sony is seeking developers who are fragile in need of cash to buy time's by trying to finish the overall so called balance with bug's to catch.. you with me savvy?.
FLS and Sigil walked the plank and Sony pushed them over!. SAVVY!.
/spit on Sony.
I also entered beta at that stage and couldn't believe the game was so unfriendly and cumbersome to play. But fans in beta forums just defended it saying (screaming rather) that it was beta and it would get better. Which it did, but not enough.
This thread is still going ?
You guys must of all argued the same points over and over, in the end the game has not released yet so we do not know how soe will effect it, if at all.
btw why has a whine/troll thread been stickied lol
Holy shit it got stickied! Now thats funny.
You and others try marginalize the concerns people have with soe yet there are very real and legitimate issues we have had with them. Yet, for some reason you ignore them and don't even address them. Somehow we're marked as just "haters". If a company or business screwed you and your friends and family the way soe has done (I don't mean the actual game play change with swg, I mean the whole way it was handled) would you continue to do business with them or not let others know what they did? You are now guilty by association, so deal with it. Your game could cure cancer and make peace in the middle east but theres no way I'll ever compromise my principles, like many people here seem willing to do, just so I can play your happy shiny new game. Having "fun" playing a video game isn't worth lowering my personal standards.
It wasn't meant to be insulting in the least. "Religious" issues aren't something you can't argue against with logic or fact, because they are a matter of faith, or in this case, principles. What I'm saying is that since you've made a stand based on principles there is nothing we can do or say that will change it, so there's no point in arguing. I wasn't saying this was bad in any way, and in fact stated that I admired people who were willing to do this (see above). I just said that for us to give up all the people who will see our game because Sony markets (group 6) it in order to keep the people who are in group 5 would be a bad business decision. This isn't anything against *you* at all. Heck, I have hopes that a lot of the SOE detractors will look at this as a chance for them to redeem themselves, at least in part, for their past problems.There was an excellent post over in our forums about boycotts, here, if you want to read it:
http://www.flyinglab.com/forums/showthread.php?p=463714&highlight=Boycott#post463714
But the gist of it is that if Sony is actually LEARNING the lesson that you want them to get (in this case hands off independant developers, letting them handle Customer Service, etc) then maintaining the boycott even AFTER they're changing might not be the best way to teach them a lesson. If you do that they have no incentive to change, ever. If on the other hand you see them behaving in the manner you are trying to encourage, it behooves you to reward that behavior. Kind of like parenting, actually.
In that light, I would hope that after we ship, if the game is good and Sony is behaving, a lot of the people who are now staying away will give it a chance.
Rick Saada - FLS Dev & EPFBM
You keep claiming SOE has learned their lesson and have changed their ways, but the only indicator you point to is that they made a deal with your company. That is a ridiculous statement. SOE has displayed absolutely no indication that they have made any positive changes outside of giving lipservice to their well known problems and taking no action to correct them. Is one of the terms of your contract with them that they will begin to act professionally towards their customers?
Most of the folks who don't want to give SOE money could care less about how they treat you, it is how they treated their own customers that is the problem. The folks who were burned by SWG and Vanguard are a minority of the folks who are upset with SOE. For the folks who were burned by Vanguard, your seemingly clueless, or more likely calculated, pimping of SOE as having turned over a new leaf, should raise a big red flag, since it comes across as more of the same of the empty words they read from Brad McQuaid.
SOE was unwilling to change while we were paying them. SOE is unwilling to change while we are vocal about not paying them. The difference is, now they are paying our complaints lipservice, while refusing to address them. Maybe if they actually implement some actual changes, not just the phantom ones you, and they, claim they have, some of us will be willing to do business with them again. Until that happens, your game, and the games of others like you, who choose to hook their leash to SOE, will get caught in the crossfire. It is unfortunate, especially since your game looks like it might be fun, but it is a very small price if it brings about a positive change. It isn't just SOE that is paying attention, and hopefully other companies will refrain from treating their customers the way SOE continues to. The worse part of the whole thing, to me, is that John Smedley, the president of SOE, is constantly saying how SOE needs to change this or that to gain back the trust of their former customers, yet those changes never come. Why would I even consider doing business with a company that knows what is broke, is willing to admit it publicly, yet refuses to actually fix the problems?
There is a reason most of your announcement, of the deal you made with SOE, consisted of your company trying to distance your product from SOE. It may be small, just words, but hopefully someday the reasons you felt the need to do that will affect an actual change. Everything has to start somewhere.
I would say it more has to do with the TYPE of deal they got. SOE is NOT doing customer service, FLS is. SOE is NOT handling the servers, FLS is. SOE is NOT handling development, FLS is.
That seems like a change from the way SOE has done things with other games.
Obee - Wan, you are our last hope. Make them understand you will.
LoL wow this is PotBS' "We're angry at SOE thread"? Interesting.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
=The best bash.org quote ever=
Curt teh Juggler: our graduation ceremony was today, and right when some gamer nerd got his diploma, someone in the audience played the zelda "get item" music and he did the zelda spin-hold-out-item stance
Curt teh Juggler: it was quite possibly the most amazing thing ever.
I don't like SOE, I was orginally going to give this game a try, but after hearing about SOE, i decided to stay clear of it.
Ya i played SWG from launch, ya there a huge part in why it suffered the way it did, they turned a great game into a pile of dog poo. But thats not why I refuse to play there games. I refuse to play there game because there like leeches. I played EQ2 and got the same feeling, for extra money, you can play this dungeon etc etc. for this much money, blah blah blah. what a load of crap, what really gets me, is even when SWG was going through all those changes, SOE was more content with poping out xpacs. i felt robbed of the CU, and NGE, no biggie, companies make mistakes, that was 1 huge mistake, but they insulted ppl's intelligence when trying to push xpacs while getting robbed. I, as a paying customer, feel that SOE is a company that would rather get a few dollars now from ppl, turn around and stick there tongue out at you, then be an actual customer based corporation that is more concerned with keeping customer satisfaction. thats the company that SOE feels to me. everything from SWG, to EQ2, to dealing with there terrible billing has flagged any game that they touch a HELL NO.
sorry, but theres to many great games out there that are fun to play then putting up with a such a terrible company that has proven to be willing to knife there customers. enjoy the game while it last, it will flop out and be a subpar game at best in due time.
What in god's name is SOE offering that has so many of these companies signing up!?
Everquest - 2000 - '02
Anarchy Online - '01-'02
Earth and Beyond - '02-'04
Star Wars Galaxies - '03-'06('07)
World of Warcraft - '04-'07
Age of Conan - '08 - shelved.
-Waiting on-
Star Trek Online
SW: The Old Republic
They are offering the devil's contract...
Seriously... what's with the anti SOEists here? It's not like SWG, or Vanguard. Flying Labs will continue to hold development and customer service rights. SOE will handle the billing, the launcher, and the marketing... all the stuff they excel at.
This is a FANTASTIC thing for PotBS. Best thing that could have happened to a game that may have otherwise floundered in obscurity. If I was on the fence about it before, I'm surely onboard now - and so will MANY more players than there would have been if the SOE deal had never happened.
...money and reach.
It's all about money, and marketing reach... and Sony is one of the biggest monsters when it comes to both. That's why this is a good thing.
they are the only ones that agreed to FLS keeping their IP, other companies wouldn't agree to that.
"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand."
- Lewis Thomas
Im glad to see John Scotts Tynes remarks about the issues of signing with SOE. I think, if he expects me or anyone else to believe SOE did not have anything to do with rushing Vanguard that POTBS is doomed as well the question in the enterview was:
Your letter to your community announcing the deal with SOE mentioned that it was to be "platform published", making it different from SOE's internally developed games. The last title that SOE published in this way resulted in SOE's acquisition of that company (Sigil) as well as the game (Vanguard). What can you say to fans who fear the same fate for Flying Lab?
Sigil's troubles with Vanguard have been very publicly documented by Brad McQuaid himself and they had nothing to do with SOE. People who blame SOE for what happened to Sigil are either grossly misinformed or willfully blind for the sake of hating.
Brad did take some responsibility for the problems with VG, but all in all this seems to be a repeating problem with SOE there games are all unfinished. I dont think i have to say anything about SWG.
I have been looking forward to POTBS and promised my self i would not play anymore SOE games. When I saw that POTBS was teaming up with SOE I though I would vomit. I also thought that POTBS was smoking POT and it was BS. I will try the game to give them a chance, after all it is only a game isn't it? I just hope that POTBS allow thereselves the option to pull out at the first sign of trouble.
EJECT EJECT!!!
This Just in Sir! .... Flying Labs was last seen over SOE HQ in flames. Report shows no survivors. May god have mercy on there souls. O wait... the devil has them
lol
oO , need your pills ?
List of SOE lies
First, Vanguard WAS NOT, I repeat WAS NOT a SOE developed game. SOE HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THE GAME BEING UNFINISHED.
And there ISN'T going to be any problems. The only things that SOE is horrible at is Customer service and development both of which SOE has NOTHING to do with in PotBS.
Guys, really, you are so naive, you don't imagine what $OE can do to you precious game. But you will learn, like the rest of us $OE haters have.
And it will burn you inside
Forever
And we all float here
What a prat POTBS doesn't need people like you please stay in these forums flaming...
________________________________________________________
Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
If you dont like it, dont buy it. otherwise go about your biz.
There's only one reason the topics are stickied or even allowed in the first place and it's not in good conscience. There are over 10,000 views on this thread since it started 2 weeks ago meaning that's over 10,000 views for ads.