didnt we just hear the same thing from Sigil concerning SOE ? "We will retain control of the game development"
How long did that happen, a few months before SOE took total control ?
Pirates has made a major mistake linking themselves with the devil. I personally could care less how little involved SOE is. If SOE were only cleaning the bathrooms I still wouldnt touch this game now. SOE is an evil corporation and will get none of my money.
I don't know who you are but the line you used refering to the anti-soe crowd "because for them it's a religious issue" is insulting and untrue. I know my decision to not have anything to do with an soe game, even if it is only as a distributer and billing, is based on their own past actions of blatantly lying to misleading their customers, combined with their horrible customer service. How is refusing to deal with a company that engages in shady business practices a religious issue? Its the same reason people have boycotted Walmart, Exxon and many other companies. How does it make you feel to know that your dealing with a company that blatantly disrespects and lies to its customers? By signing a deal with them, and seeing what you and other devs of your game have said, you've basically said that you don't care what soe has done to its customers.
You and others try marginalize the concerns people have with soe yet there are very real and legitimate issues we have had with them. Yet, for some reason you ignore them and don't even address them. Somehow we're marked as just "haters". If a company or business screwed you and your friends and family the way soe has done (I don't mean the actual game play change with swg, I mean the whole way it was handled) would you continue to do business with them or not let others know what they did? You are now guilty by association, so deal with it. Your game could cure cancer and make peace in the middle east but theres no way I'll ever compromise my principles, like many people here seem willing to do, just so I can play your happy shiny new game. Having "fun" playing a video game isn't worth lowering my personal standards.
I don't think you know that religious can be defined as "Extremely scrupulous or conscientious", meaning that Rick didn't say anything insulting or untrue, because you are being extremely scrupulous about how SOE does business. You really just proved Rick's point with number 5...
didnt we just hear the same thing from Sigil concerning SOE ? "We will retain control of the game development" How long did that happen, a few months before SOE took total control ? Pirates has made a major mistake linking themselves with the devil. I personally could care less how little involved SOE is. If SOE were only cleaning the bathrooms I still wouldnt touch this game now. SOE is an evil corporation and will get none of my money. Goodbye POTBS
Sigil was in a lot of debt and didn't have the resources to maintain a functional game on their own. SOE then entered to help development/release of Vanguard... And they really didn't hurt the game as much as everyone complains. They just like to blame SOE because they might've had a few billing/customer service/etc. issues here and there (which is SOE's fault) and because the game sucked (which is not SOE's fault,). If PotBS is bad, it would be FLS's fault, not SOE's.
FLS has no debt, and has the resources to maintain a functional game on their own. SOE won't be in charge of development unless PotBS dies.
If the SOE haters get what they really want by killing PotBS, all they will really do is help SOE buy another game, and profit off of it.
didnt we just hear the same thing from Sigil concerning SOE ? "We will retain control of the game development" How long did that happen, a few months before SOE took total control ? Pirates has made a major mistake linking themselves with the devil. I personally could care less how little involved SOE is. If SOE were only cleaning the bathrooms I still wouldnt touch this game now. SOE is an evil corporation and will get none of my money. Goodbye POTBS
Sigil was in a lot of debt and didn't have the resources to maintain a functional game on their own. SOE then entered to help development/release of Vanguard... And they really didn't hurt the game as much as everyone complains. They just like to blame SOE because they might've had a few billing/customer service/etc. issues here and there (which is SOE's fault) and because the game sucked (which is not SOE's fault,). If PotBS is bad, it would be FLS's fault, not SOE's.
FLS has no debt, and has the resources to maintain a functional game on their own. SOE won't be in charge of development unless PotBS dies.
If the SOE haters get what they really want by killing PotBS, all they will really do is help SOE buy another game, and profit off of it.
I agree with some of what you've said. Soe had very little, if anything, to do with the demise of vanguard. The only reason vanguard even exists today is because of soe. Whether or not thats a good thing is debatable.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
Beat me to it, Woody! It takes a while to read through the 12 pages added since I went to bed. He's right. We're doing our own servers. Sony does distribution and marketing, both of which they're quite good at. Really, to summarize all 26 pages of this thread, this all comes down to a few camps of people: 1. People who don't care who publishes the game as long as it's good. 2. People who've had bad experiences with every company and so don't like any of them. But they love games so they judge each game as it comes along. 3. People who've had a bad experience with SOE but trust us to take care of ourselves. 4. People who are sure SOE will mess up the game some how, but are willing to check it out anyway. 5. People who don't care how good the game is, because for them it's become a matter of principal to avoid SOE. 6. People who wouldn't have found our game if it weren't for SOE's marketing and distribution, but now will. Groups 1, 2, 3, and 4 we can take care of by doing *our * job and releasing a solid and fun game. Some people will hold back on trying it to make sure it's not another Vanguard, but that's fine. I'm not Brad McQuaid so I'm not worried about them. Group 5 we can't do anything about anyway, because for them it's a religious issue, and you can't argue with that. From a business standpoint, we believe that group 6 is much larger than group 5. Digital distribution doesn't reach the Walmart crowd, or even a lot of the Best Buy/Gamestop crowd. While I admire the adherance to their principals that will keep group 5 away from our game, I'm sorry they won't get to enjoy it. But my admiration isn't enough to cause me to make a bad business decision for my company because of it. Rick Saada - FLS Dev and EPFBM
I don't know who you are but the line you used refering to the anti-soe crowd "because for them it's a religious issue" is insulting and untrue. I know my decision to not have anything to do with an soe game, even if it is only as a distributer and billing, is based on their own past actions of blatantly lying to misleading their customers, combined with their horrible customer service. How is refusing to deal with a company that engages in shady business practices a religious issue? Its the same reason people have boycotted Walmart, Exxon and many other companies. How does it make you feel to know that your dealing with a company that blatantly disrespects and lies to its customers? By signing a deal with them, and seeing what you and other devs of your game have said, you've basically said that you don't care what soe has done to its customers.
You and others try marginalize the concerns people have with soe yet there are very real and legitimate issues we have had with them. Yet, for some reason you ignore them and don't even address them. Somehow we're marked as just "haters". If a company or business screwed you and your friends and family the way soe has done (I don't mean the actual game play change with swg, I mean the whole way it was handled) would you continue to do business with them or not let others know what they did? You are now guilty by association, so deal with it. Your game could cure cancer and make peace in the middle east but theres no way I'll ever compromise my principles, like many people here seem willing to do, just so I can play your happy shiny new game. Having "fun" playing a video game isn't worth lowering my personal standards.
It wasn't meant to be insulting in the least. "Religious" issues aren't something you can't argue against with logic or fact, because they are a matter of faith, or in this case, principles. What I'm saying is that since you've made a stand based on principles there is nothing we can do or say that will change it, so there's no point in arguing. I wasn't saying this was bad in any way, and in fact stated that I admired people who were willing to do this (see above). I just said that for us to give up all the people who will see our game because Sony markets (group 6) it in order to keep the people who are in group 5 would be a bad business decision. This isn't anything against *you* at all. Heck, I have hopes that a lot of the SOE detractors will look at this as a chance for them to redeem themselves, at least in part, for their past problems.
There was an excellent post over in our forums about boycotts, here, if you want to read it:
But the gist of it is that if Sony is actually LEARNING the lesson that you want them to get (in this case hands off independant developers, letting them handle Customer Service, etc) then maintaining the boycott even AFTER they're changing might not be the best way to teach them a lesson. If you do that they have no incentive to change, ever. If on the other hand you see them behaving in the manner you are trying to encourage, it behooves you to reward that behavior. Kind of like parenting, actually.
In that light, I would hope that after we ship, if the game is good and Sony is behaving, a lot of the people who are now staying away will give it a chance.
Beat me to it, Woody! It takes a while to read through the 12 pages added since I went to bed. He's right. We're doing our own servers. Sony does distribution and marketing, both of which they're quite good at. Really, to summarize all 26 pages of this thread, this all comes down to a few camps of people: 1. People who don't care who publishes the game as long as it's good. 2. People who've had bad experiences with every company and so don't like any of them. But they love games so they judge each game as it comes along. 3. People who've had a bad experience with SOE but trust us to take care of ourselves. 4. People who are sure SOE will mess up the game some how, but are willing to check it out anyway. 5. People who don't care how good the game is, because for them it's become a matter of principal to avoid SOE. 6. People who wouldn't have found our game if it weren't for SOE's marketing and distribution, but now will. Groups 1, 2, 3, and 4 we can take care of by doing *our * job and releasing a solid and fun game. Some people will hold back on trying it to make sure it's not another Vanguard, but that's fine. I'm not Brad McQuaid so I'm not worried about them. Group 5 we can't do anything about anyway, because for them it's a religious issue, and you can't argue with that. From a business standpoint, we believe that group 6 is much larger than group 5. Digital distribution doesn't reach the Walmart crowd, or even a lot of the Best Buy/Gamestop crowd. While I admire the adherance to their principals that will keep group 5 away from our game, I'm sorry they won't get to enjoy it. But my admiration isn't enough to cause me to make a bad business decision for my company because of it. Rick Saada - FLS Dev and EPFBM
I don't know who you are but the line you used refering to the anti-soe crowd "because for them it's a religious issue" is insulting and untrue. I know my decision to not have anything to do with an soe game, even if it is only as a distributer and billing, is based on their own past actions of blatantly lying to misleading their customers, combined with their horrible customer service. How is refusing to deal with a company that engages in shady business practices a religious issue? Its the same reason people have boycotted Walmart, Exxon and many other companies. How does it make you feel to know that your dealing with a company that blatantly disrespects and lies to its customers? By signing a deal with them, and seeing what you and other devs of your game have said, you've basically said that you don't care what soe has done to its customers.
You and others try marginalize the concerns people have with soe yet there are very real and legitimate issues we have had with them. Yet, for some reason you ignore them and don't even address them. Somehow we're marked as just "haters". If a company or business screwed you and your friends and family the way soe has done (I don't mean the actual game play change with swg, I mean the whole way it was handled) would you continue to do business with them or not let others know what they did? You are now guilty by association, so deal with it. Your game could cure cancer and make peace in the middle east but theres no way I'll ever compromise my principles, like many people here seem willing to do, just so I can play your happy shiny new game. Having "fun" playing a video game isn't worth lowering my personal standards.
Actally his religious statement is true according to http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/religious. It's description number 3. The SOE haters on this board are almost religious in their hate for SOE.
Personally, I've never had a problem with SOE. Am I happy with what they did to SWG? No, but I've moved on just as I have with EA and what they did with UO. Do I find some of their business practices shady and unethical? Yes. I feel the same way about Wal-Mart. But in the same respect if I see something in Wal-mart that I can't get anywhere else then I'm going to get it regardless of thier business practices. I would do the same thing if the item was significantly cheaper or of better quality. I could find an item somewhere else but if it is say $20 more or if it isn't as good a quality as what I find at Wal-Mart then I"ll pass and get it at Wal-Mart. Same with Apple computers. I do not like their computers or the company, but that didn't stop me from getting an iPod. Some people may feel that this makes me a hypocrite but so be it if they do. All i know is i work hard for my money and If i can get something cheaper or better than what it currently is elsewhere than the company makes no difference to me.
Also I agree with Rick Saada. Why should he make a bad business decision for his company because a few people don't like SOE. I bet for every person who doesn't like SOE 5 do. and there are even some who downright hate SOE but the fact that they are marketing won't stop them from trying a game that piques their interest. If you don't like SOE that's fine. But i find it quite annoying when people come onto these boards and say "SOE is horrible" and "Since they have their hands on it I won't buy it" then try to convince everyone else to join them. If you don't like SOE don't play and just leave. No need to make a big stink about it.
Beat me to it, Woody! It takes a while to read through the 12 pages added since I went to bed. He's right. We're doing our own servers. Sony does distribution and marketing, both of which they're quite good at. Really, to summarize all 26 pages of this thread, this all comes down to a few camps of people: 1. People who don't care who publishes the game as long as it's good. 2. People who've had bad experiences with every company and so don't like any of them. But they love games so they judge each game as it comes along. 3. People who've had a bad experience with SOE but trust us to take care of ourselves. 4. People who are sure SOE will mess up the game some how, but are willing to check it out anyway. 5. People who don't care how good the game is, because for them it's become a matter of principal to avoid SOE. 6. People who wouldn't have found our game if it weren't for SOE's marketing and distribution, but now will. Groups 1, 2, 3, and 4 we can take care of by doing *our * job and releasing a solid and fun game. Some people will hold back on trying it to make sure it's not another Vanguard, but that's fine. I'm not Brad McQuaid so I'm not worried about them. Group 5 we can't do anything about anyway, because for them it's a religious issue, and you can't argue with that. From a business standpoint, we believe that group 6 is much larger than group 5. Digital distribution doesn't reach the Walmart crowd, or even a lot of the Best Buy/Gamestop crowd. While I admire the adherance to their principals that will keep group 5 away from our game, I'm sorry they won't get to enjoy it. But my admiration isn't enough to cause me to make a bad business decision for my company because of it. Rick Saada - FLS Dev and EPFBM
I don't know who you are but the line you used refering to the anti-soe crowd "because for them it's a religious issue" is insulting and untrue. I know my decision to not have anything to do with an soe game, even if it is only as a distributer and billing, is based on their own past actions of blatantly lying to misleading their customers, combined with their horrible customer service. How is refusing to deal with a company that engages in shady business practices a religious issue? Its the same reason people have boycotted Walmart, Exxon and many other companies. How does it make you feel to know that your dealing with a company that blatantly disrespects and lies to its customers? By signing a deal with them, and seeing what you and other devs of your game have said, you've basically said that you don't care what soe has done to its customers.
You and others try marginalize the concerns people have with soe yet there are very real and legitimate issues we have had with them. Yet, for some reason you ignore them and don't even address them. Somehow we're marked as just "haters". If a company or business screwed you and your friends and family the way soe has done (I don't mean the actual game play change with swg, I mean the whole way it was handled) would you continue to do business with them or not let others know what they did? You are now guilty by association, so deal with it. Your game could cure cancer and make peace in the middle east but theres no way I'll ever compromise my principles, like many people here seem willing to do, just so I can play your happy shiny new game. Having "fun" playing a video game isn't worth lowering my personal standards.
It wasn't meant to be insulting in the least. "Religious" issues aren't something you can't argue against with logic or fact, because they are a matter of faith, or in this case, principles. What I'm saying is that since you've made a stand based on principles there is nothing we can do or say that will change it, so there's no point in arguing. I wasn't saying this was bad in any way, and in fact stated that I admired people who were willing to do this (see above). I just said that for us to give up all the people who will see our game because Sony markets (group 6) it in order to keep the people who are in group 5 would be a bad business decision. This isn't anything against *you* at all. Heck, I have hopes that a lot of the SOE detractors will look at this as a chance for them to redeem themselves, at least in part, for their past problems.
There was an excellent post over in our forums about boycotts, here, if you want to read it:
But the gist of it is that if Sony is actually LEARNING the lesson that you want them to get (in this case hands off independant developers, letting them handle Customer Service, etc) then maintaining the boycott even AFTER they're changing might not be the best way to teach them a lesson. If you do that they have no incentive to change, ever. If on the other hand you see them behaving in the manner you are trying to encourage, it behooves you to reward that behavior. Kind of like parenting, actually.
In that light, I would hope that after we ship, if the game is good and Sony is behaving, a lot of the people who are now staying away will give it a chance.
Rick Saada - FLS Dev & EPFBM
What you and others fail to grasp is that theres plenty of logic and fact regarding the ill will many feel towards soe. Its just that some people choose to ignore it as long as they can have fun playing a video game. Whatever. As to your other point, I have to admit I might agree with it. If soe has truly changed its ways and has learned its lesson, then yes, I think it might be fair to give them one more shot. However, they haven't proven that they've learned anything except spin control but if they really change and start respecting their customers then I might be willing to get in on a game soe is involved with. I know personally don't hold any ill will towards you or your company and it irritates me too to see people posting that you guys are lying or untruthful about your deal with soe. I believe what your saying. So IF, and thats a big if, soe cleans up their act and you guys maintain control of the game then maybe, MAYBE, I might consider taking a look.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
Hmm. Us east coasters never gets no love from these gaming conventions... wtf do those silly west coasters got that we don't?
And to keep, slightly, on topic -- I don't have much interest in collectors edition myself -- i'd rather wait to play the game, make sure imma like it then buy cool lewtz off their website... But that's just me.
I really thought this thread would be dead by now, but no, people still debating over this in your face obvious topic. It's quite simple folks, you either play the game cause it is fun or you don't cause you hate SOE. So what exactly haven't both sides proven that we now have 59 pages of what I just got done pointing out. If you don't want to play the game cause SOE is involved, then don't. We don't need to hear how SWG ruined your life cause it was dramatically altered causing you to have an emotional breakdown resulting in a 3 year grudge and anti SOE lifestyle. The reason I can say this is because I played SWG from day one and went through that whole ordeal, but like most grown ups, I get over lifes little bumps in the road. Think about it, most of the anti SOE people are ex-SWG veterans and to think that they can't let go of the past 3 years down the road really amazes me. Sure, you spent $200 on the game and expansions and another $300 in monthly fees. I agree, $500 is a lot of money to have invested in something. Well, guess what, every time you log into an MMO, doesn't it usually say game experience may change? Maybe because MMO's are constantly changing? So technically, your $500 paid for 2-3 years of MMO entertainment and not a lifetime guarantee that you'll remain completely satisfied. Let me put into prespective just how childish this really is. For example, the cost to go to a movie in my area is $7.00, so lets say instead of playing MMO's I went to a movie once a month. So, for 2 hours of entertainment each month for 24 months, I'm closing in on $200. If for some reason I don't like the movies coming out anymore, I can stop going to the theatre. It's not the movie directors, actors / actresses or producers responsibility to make movies that specifically satisfy my likes. Which is why I'm given the choice to either paying to watch it or sitting at home and do nothing. The best part about this MMO experience though, is you can play it 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Your not limited to 2 hours of entertainment each month. So, MMO's are extremely cheap entertainment for your buck, so excuse me when I say, get a @!#$ing clue already and get over your SWG loss and stop expecting to be compensated for something you agreed to pay for as long as you were satisfied. Your not being charged for it anymore, so we don't need to hear your anti SOE rants cause they are pointless, as anything SOE has done to hurt you, countless other corporations around the world have probably done worse.
Theres a few things wrong with what you've written.
1. Most people, like myself, aren't upset about the actual changes soe made to swg. Things change and in fact it was the second time swg changed completely in less than a year. I stuck around after the cu and continued to enjoy myself right up until the nge. The problem was the downright shady and unethical way the change was made. They were announcing for months about changes to professions they knew were no longer going to exist and did so right up until the nge was announced. They didn't tell us about the nge until the day AFTER they released the last expansion, and expansion that promised in game itmes for professions that would be eliminated. I wonder why they didn't tell anyone about the nge until after everyone had bought the expansion? Btw , it hasn't been 3 years yet, it hasn't even been 2 years yet. Nge was released in Nov. 2005.
2. Your statement about changes to gameplay relates to the esrb rating system. Meaning, that playing a multi player game alone will have a different rating (say Teen) then it will when you play it with other (say Adult Only). Thats because when you interact with others people can be exposed to all sorts of stuff like foul language, sexism, racism etc. THATS what "game play may change" means.
3. I'm actually having a lot of fun right now in WoW and think very little about swg these days. Its not like I lay awake at night almost 2 years later still thinking about it. I do feel that I should be able to state my opinions in places like this when the topic of soe comes up. People need to know what kind of company they are and the things they've done to and how they treat their customers. What people decided to do with that info is up to them.
4. By getting into business with soe, potbs and any other game company should be prepared for the flack that accompanies it. I still haven't seen any comments by the devs of this game regarding soe's past business practices. Do they think soe was less than honest with their customers adn engaged in some shady business practices or do they think soe did nothing wrong?
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
I really thought this thread would be dead by now, but no, people still debating over this in your face obvious topic. It's quite simple folks, you either play the game cause it is fun or you don't cause you hate SOE. So what exactly haven't both sides proven that we now have 59 pages of what I just got done pointing out. If you don't want to play the game cause SOE is involved, then don't. We don't need to hear how SWG ruined your life cause it was dramatically altered causing you to have an emotional breakdown resulting in a 3 year grudge and anti SOE lifestyle. The reason I can say this is because I played SWG from day one and went through that whole ordeal, but like most grown ups, I get over lifes little bumps in the road. Think about it, most of the anti SOE people are ex-SWG veterans and to think that they can't let go of the past 3 years down the road really amazes me. Sure, you spent $200 on the game and expansions and another $300 in monthly fees. I agree, $500 is a lot of money to have invested in something. Well, guess what, every time you log into an MMO, doesn't it usually say game experience may change? Maybe because MMO's are constantly changing? So technically, your $500 paid for 2-3 years of MMO entertainment and not a lifetime guarantee that you'll remain completely satisfied. Let me put into prespective just how childish this really is. For example, the cost to go to a movie in my area is $7.00, so lets say instead of playing MMO's I went to a movie once a month. So, for 2 hours of entertainment each month for 24 months, I'm closing in on $200. If for some reason I don't like the movies coming out anymore, I can stop going to the theatre. It's not the movie directors, actors / actresses or producers responsibility to make movies that specifically satisfy my likes. Which is why I'm given the choice to either paying to watch it or sitting at home and do nothing. The best part about this MMO experience though, is you can play it 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Your not limited to 2 hours of entertainment each month. So, MMO's are extremely cheap entertainment for your buck, so excuse me when I say, get a @!#$ing clue already and get over your SWG loss and stop expecting to be compensated for something you agreed to pay for as long as you were satisfied. Your not being charged for it anymore, so we don't need to hear your anti SOE rants cause they are pointless, as anything SOE has done to hurt you, countless other corporations around the world have probably done worse.
Theres a few things wrong with what you've written.
1. Most people, like myself, aren't upset about the actual changes soe made to swg. Things change and in fact it was the second time swg changed completely in less than a year. I stuck around after the cu and continued to enjoy myself right up until the nge. The problem was the downright shady and unethical way the change was made. They were announcing for months about changes to professions they knew were no longer going to exist and did so right up until the nge was announced. They didn't tell us about the nge until the day AFTER they released the last expansion, and expansion that promised in game itmes for professions that would be eliminated. I wonder why they didn't tell anyone about the nge until after everyone had bought the expansion? Btw , it hasn't been 3 years yet, it hasn't even been 2 years yet. Nge was released in Nov. 2005.
2. Your statement about changes to gameplay relates to the esrb rating system. Meaning, that playing a multi player game alone will have a different rating (say Teen) then it will when you play it with other (say Adult Only). Thats because when you interact with others people can be exposed to all sorts of stuff like foul language, sexism, racism etc. THATS what "game play may change" means.
3. I'm actually having a lot of fun right now in WoW and think very little about swg these days. Its not like I lay awake at night almost 2 years later still thinking about it. I do feel that I should be able to state my opinions in places like this when the topic of soe comes up. People need to know what kind of company they are and the things they've done to and how they treat their customers. What people decided to do with that info is up to them.
4. By getting into business with soe, potbs and any other game company should be prepared for the flack that accompanies it. I still haven't seen any comments by the devs of this game regarding soe's past business practices. Do they think soe was less than honest with their customers adn engaged in some shady business practices or do they think soe did nothing wrong?
I don't wanna go into this SOE blablabla thing again.
What i do want to say is that in my opinion/belief he was right about the changes made in a game.It clearly states in mmorpg's that i have played that the GAMEPLAY may change during your online gametime.It clearly goes for the game itself as i enterprid it.A lot of people complain about changes that cause bugs/lag/nerfs etc.I think the "gameplay may change" is just a back-up for the developers.The explanation you give for the "gameplay may change" to me looks verry odd to say the least.
60 pages of posts now? LOL...who would have thought....maybe it should be a requirement that you have to read all the posts before adding in the same exact thoughts posted 25 times before....
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I really thought this thread would be dead by now, but no, people still debating over this in your face obvious topic. It's quite simple folks, you either play the game cause it is fun or you don't cause you hate SOE. So what exactly haven't both sides proven that we now have 59 pages of what I just got done pointing out. If you don't want to play the game cause SOE is involved, then don't. We don't need to hear how SWG ruined your life cause it was dramatically altered causing you to have an emotional breakdown resulting in a 3 year grudge and anti SOE lifestyle. The reason I can say this is because I played SWG from day one and went through that whole ordeal, but like most grown ups, I get over lifes little bumps in the road. Think about it, most of the anti SOE people are ex-SWG veterans and to think that they can't let go of the past 3 years down the road really amazes me. Sure, you spent $200 on the game and expansions and another $300 in monthly fees. I agree, $500 is a lot of money to have invested in something. Well, guess what, every time you log into an MMO, doesn't it usually say game experience may change? Maybe because MMO's are constantly changing? So technically, your $500 paid for 2-3 years of MMO entertainment and not a lifetime guarantee that you'll remain completely satisfied. Let me put into prespective just how childish this really is. For example, the cost to go to a movie in my area is $7.00, so lets say instead of playing MMO's I went to a movie once a month. So, for 2 hours of entertainment each month for 24 months, I'm closing in on $200. If for some reason I don't like the movies coming out anymore, I can stop going to the theatre. It's not the movie directors, actors / actresses or producers responsibility to make movies that specifically satisfy my likes. Which is why I'm given the choice to either paying to watch it or sitting at home and do nothing. The best part about this MMO experience though, is you can play it 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Your not limited to 2 hours of entertainment each month. So, MMO's are extremely cheap entertainment for your buck, so excuse me when I say, get a @!#$ing clue already and get over your SWG loss and stop expecting to be compensated for something you agreed to pay for as long as you were satisfied. Your not being charged for it anymore, so we don't need to hear your anti SOE rants cause they are pointless, as anything SOE has done to hurt you, countless other corporations around the world have probably done worse.
Theres a few things wrong with what you've written.
1. Most people, like myself, aren't upset about the actual changes soe made to swg. Things change and in fact it was the second time swg changed completely in less than a year. I stuck around after the cu and continued to enjoy myself right up until the nge. The problem was the downright shady and unethical way the change was made. They were announcing for months about changes to professions they knew were no longer going to exist and did so right up until the nge was announced. They didn't tell us about the nge until the day AFTER they released the last expansion, and expansion that promised in game itmes for professions that would be eliminated. I wonder why they didn't tell anyone about the nge until after everyone had bought the expansion? Btw , it hasn't been 3 years yet, it hasn't even been 2 years yet. Nge was released in Nov. 2005.
2. Your statement about changes to gameplay relates to the esrb rating system. Meaning, that playing a multi player game alone will have a different rating (say Teen) then it will when you play it with other (say Adult Only). Thats because when you interact with others people can be exposed to all sorts of stuff like foul language, sexism, racism etc. THATS what "game play may change" means.
3. I'm actually having a lot of fun right now in WoW and think very little about swg these days. Its not like I lay awake at night almost 2 years later still thinking about it. I do feel that I should be able to state my opinions in places like this when the topic of soe comes up. People need to know what kind of company they are and the things they've done to and how they treat their customers. What people decided to do with that info is up to them.
4. By getting into business with soe, potbs and any other game company should be prepared for the flack that accompanies it. I still haven't seen any comments by the devs of this game regarding soe's past business practices. Do they think soe was less than honest with their customers adn engaged in some shady business practices or do they think soe did nothing wrong?
I don't wanna go into this SOE blablabla thing again.
What i do want to say is that in my opinion/belief he was right about the changes made in a game.It clearly states in mmorpg's that i have played that the GAMEPLAY may change during your online gametime.It clearly goes for the game itself as i enterprid it.A lot of people complain about changes that cause bugs/lag/nerfs etc.I think the "gameplay may change" is just a back-up for the developers.The explanation you give for the "gameplay may change" to me looks verry odd to say the least.
Online games that include user-generated content (e.g., chat, maps, skins) carry the notice "Game Experience May Change During Online Play" to warn consumers that content created by players of the game has not been rated by the ESRB.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
I don't wanna go into this SOE blablabla thing again.
What i do want to say is that in my opinion/belief he was right about the changes made in a game.It clearly states in mmorpg's that i have played that the GAMEPLAY may change during your online gametime.It clearly goes for the game itself as i enterprid it.A lot of people complain about changes that cause bugs/lag/nerfs etc.I think the "gameplay may change" is just a back-up for the developers.The explanation you give for the "gameplay may change" to me looks verry odd to say the least.
Meh, I don't think that ESRB thing has to do with what you think it does. It refers more to what he said and things like lag.
What you are getting at, I think, is the TOS(Terms of Service) that every MMO out makes you click on Accept before you play. Most, if not all TOS' clearly state(paraphrased), "We reserve the right to do wtf ever we want whentf ever we want. If that is cool with you send us your money and click Accept."
Excuse me, this wall over here looks like it has fewer dents for me to bang my head into, brb.
Read the bottom of the page and you'll find this Online Rating Notice Online games that include user-generated content (e.g., chat, maps, skins) carry the notice "Game Experience May Change During Online Play" to warn consumers that content created by players of the game has not been rated by the ESRB.
You're really splliting hairs there Ginaz. Who cares if he quoted the ESRB "change" wording instead of the clause that applies to probably every single MMO now? I don't think I've ever played a game that didn't let me know before logging in that the developers reserve the right to significantly change the game, and by playing you agree to not sue them if they do.
I don't wanna go into this SOE blablabla thing again.
What i do want to say is that in my opinion/belief he was right about the changes made in a game.It clearly states in mmorpg's that i have played that the GAMEPLAY may change during your online gametime.It clearly goes for the game itself as i enterprid it.A lot of people complain about changes that cause bugs/lag/nerfs etc.I think the "gameplay may change" is just a back-up for the developers.The explanation you give for the "gameplay may change" to me looks verry odd to say the least.
Meh, I don't think that ESRB thing has to do with what you think it does. It refers more to what he said and things like lag.
What you are getting at, I think, is the TOS(Terms of Service) that every MMO out makes you click on Accept before you play. Most, if not all TOS' clearly state(paraphrased), "We reserve the right to do wtf ever we want whentf ever we want. If that is cool with you send us your money and click Accept."
Excuse me, this wall over here looks like it has fewer dents for me to bang my head into, brb.
Indeed that is what i meant the TOS.Wich basically states the samething.That they can change both the game/software and the eulacompletely without you having the right to moan about it.
It wasn't meant to be insulting in the least. "Religious" issues aren't something you can't argue against with logic or fact, because they are a matter of faith, or in this case, principles. What I'm saying is that since you've made a stand based on principles there is nothing we can do or say that will change it, so there's no point in arguing. I wasn't saying this was bad in any way, and in fact stated that I admired people who were willing to do this (see above). I just said that for us to give up all the people who will see our game because Sony markets (group 6) it in order to keep the people who are in group 5 would be a bad business decision. This isn't anything against *you* at all. Heck, I have hopes that a lot of the SOE detractors will look at this as a chance for them to redeem themselves, at least in part, for their past problems.
There was an excellent post over in our forums about boycotts, here, if you want to read it: http://www.flyinglab.com/forums/showthread.php?p=463714&highlight=Boycott#post463714 But the gist of it is that if Sony is actually LEARNING the lesson that you want them to get (in this case hands off independant developers, letting them handle Customer Service, etc) then maintaining the boycott even AFTER they're changing might not be the best way to teach them a lesson. If you do that they have no incentive to change, ever. If on the other hand you see them behaving in the manner you are trying to encourage, it behooves you to reward that behavior. Kind of like parenting, actually. In that light, I would hope that after we ship, if the game is good and Sony is behaving, a lot of the people who are now staying away will give it a chance. Rick Saada - FLS Dev & EPFBM
Its a very good point you and several other had made here.
If asked what I would want SOE to do in order for me to return my bussiness to them, I would come with a blank stare. Some want some kind of personalized appology, some want certain managers to be replaced, some want a lengthy history of not doing what they did during the NGE...its a series of disjointed reasons. Its a general theme that goes something like "we don't want that SOE shaping the MMO industry".
I'm sure several minds have been changed already since the NGE event so its a matter of changing one mind at a time. The rest have not seen enough change.
I respect you for sticking it out here and approaching this with reason instead of taking the easy way and making it a simple math calculation of subs lost/gained than moving on. I won't be joining in on the POTBS launch, but I will certainly be watching the events unfold over the next year in hopes that your game is successful and that you are able to keep a leash on SOE. Perhaps than I will have found the answer to that question and be satisified.
Perhaps you will end up being SOEs answer to Group 5. Keep up the good fight and set those suckers straight!
You're really splliting hairs there Ginaz. Who cares if he quoted the ESRB "change" wording instead of the clause that applies to probably every single MMO now? I don't think I've ever played a game that didn't let me know before logging in that the developers reserve the right to significantly change the game, and by playing you agree to not sue them if they do.
Because too many idiots use it incorrectly. If he's going to act like an ass an get all cocky about it then I feel I'm completely justified in showing just how wrong he is. I'm sure theres a place in the user agreement that states something like that as well, its just most people who say things like this are too lazy to go and find it. Instead they use the esrb thing, which doesn't mean what they mean. Besides, I've already said a company like soe can change the game whenever they want. Its just shady and dishonest to do it the way they did it. Whats so hard to understand about that?
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
This talk of the Terms of Service makes me wonder something... I guess we'd have to see an official copy of the SWG TOS prior to all the shit going down but...
If the SWG ToS did, in fact, state that they reserve the right to do what they want when they want -- does that mean that the arguement "SOE LIED" doesn't hold water? Cause, they told you when you clicked Accept that they could change things at anytime, regardless of what you want, regardless of what they tell you...
Comments
didnt we just hear the same thing from Sigil concerning SOE ? "We will retain control of the game development"
How long did that happen, a few months before SOE took total control ?
Pirates has made a major mistake linking themselves with the devil. I personally could care less how little involved SOE is. If SOE were only cleaning the bathrooms I still wouldnt touch this game now. SOE is an evil corporation and will get none of my money.
Goodbye POTBS
I don't think you know that religious can be defined as "Extremely scrupulous or conscientious", meaning that Rick didn't say anything insulting or untrue, because you are being extremely scrupulous about how SOE does business. You really just proved Rick's point with number 5...
Sigil was in a lot of debt and didn't have the resources to maintain a functional game on their own. SOE then entered to help development/release of Vanguard... And they really didn't hurt the game as much as everyone complains. They just like to blame SOE because they might've had a few billing/customer service/etc. issues here and there (which is SOE's fault) and because the game sucked (which is not SOE's fault,). If PotBS is bad, it would be FLS's fault, not SOE's.FLS has no debt, and has the resources to maintain a functional game on their own. SOE won't be in charge of development unless PotBS dies.
If the SOE haters get what they really want by killing PotBS, all they will really do is help SOE buy another game, and profit off of it.
FLS has no debt, and has the resources to maintain a functional game on their own. SOE won't be in charge of development unless PotBS dies.
If the SOE haters get what they really want by killing PotBS, all they will really do is help SOE buy another game, and profit off of it.
I agree with some of what you've said. Soe had very little, if anything, to do with the demise of vanguard. The only reason vanguard even exists today is because of soe. Whether or not thats a good thing is debatable.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
You and others try marginalize the concerns people have with soe yet there are very real and legitimate issues we have had with them. Yet, for some reason you ignore them and don't even address them. Somehow we're marked as just "haters". If a company or business screwed you and your friends and family the way soe has done (I don't mean the actual game play change with swg, I mean the whole way it was handled) would you continue to do business with them or not let others know what they did? You are now guilty by association, so deal with it. Your game could cure cancer and make peace in the middle east but theres no way I'll ever compromise my principles, like many people here seem willing to do, just so I can play your happy shiny new game. Having "fun" playing a video game isn't worth lowering my personal standards.
It wasn't meant to be insulting in the least. "Religious" issues aren't something you can't argue against with logic or fact, because they are a matter of faith, or in this case, principles. What I'm saying is that since you've made a stand based on principles there is nothing we can do or say that will change it, so there's no point in arguing. I wasn't saying this was bad in any way, and in fact stated that I admired people who were willing to do this (see above). I just said that for us to give up all the people who will see our game because Sony markets (group 6) it in order to keep the people who are in group 5 would be a bad business decision. This isn't anything against *you* at all. Heck, I have hopes that a lot of the SOE detractors will look at this as a chance for them to redeem themselves, at least in part, for their past problems.There was an excellent post over in our forums about boycotts, here, if you want to read it:
http://www.flyinglab.com/forums/showthread.php?p=463714&highlight=Boycott#post463714
But the gist of it is that if Sony is actually LEARNING the lesson that you want them to get (in this case hands off independant developers, letting them handle Customer Service, etc) then maintaining the boycott even AFTER they're changing might not be the best way to teach them a lesson. If you do that they have no incentive to change, ever. If on the other hand you see them behaving in the manner you are trying to encourage, it behooves you to reward that behavior. Kind of like parenting, actually.
In that light, I would hope that after we ship, if the game is good and Sony is behaving, a lot of the people who are now staying away will give it a chance.
Rick Saada - FLS Dev & EPFBM
Rick Saada - FLS Dev & EPFBM
I'm thinking those who play Vanguard, think it's a good thing. If you dont play Vanguard.... who cares what u think tbh
You and others try marginalize the concerns people have with soe yet there are very real and legitimate issues we have had with them. Yet, for some reason you ignore them and don't even address them. Somehow we're marked as just "haters". If a company or business screwed you and your friends and family the way soe has done (I don't mean the actual game play change with swg, I mean the whole way it was handled) would you continue to do business with them or not let others know what they did? You are now guilty by association, so deal with it. Your game could cure cancer and make peace in the middle east but theres no way I'll ever compromise my principles, like many people here seem willing to do, just so I can play your happy shiny new game. Having "fun" playing a video game isn't worth lowering my personal standards.
Actally his religious statement is true according to http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/religious. It's description number 3. The SOE haters on this board are almost religious in their hate for SOE.Personally, I've never had a problem with SOE. Am I happy with what they did to SWG? No, but I've moved on just as I have with EA and what they did with UO. Do I find some of their business practices shady and unethical? Yes. I feel the same way about Wal-Mart. But in the same respect if I see something in Wal-mart that I can't get anywhere else then I'm going to get it regardless of thier business practices. I would do the same thing if the item was significantly cheaper or of better quality. I could find an item somewhere else but if it is say $20 more or if it isn't as good a quality as what I find at Wal-Mart then I"ll pass and get it at Wal-Mart. Same with Apple computers. I do not like their computers or the company, but that didn't stop me from getting an iPod. Some people may feel that this makes me a hypocrite but so be it if they do. All i know is i work hard for my money and If i can get something cheaper or better than what it currently is elsewhere than the company makes no difference to me.
Also I agree with Rick Saada. Why should he make a bad business decision for his company because a few people don't like SOE. I bet for every person who doesn't like SOE 5 do. and there are even some who downright hate SOE but the fact that they are marketing won't stop them from trying a game that piques their interest. If you don't like SOE that's fine. But i find it quite annoying when people come onto these boards and say "SOE is horrible" and "Since they have their hands on it I won't buy it" then try to convince everyone else to join them. If you don't like SOE don't play and just leave. No need to make a big stink about it.
RICK GIVE THE GOOD WORD ON COLLECTOR EDITIONS PLZ PLZ PLZ PLZ PLZ????
i know you said the store's don't seem interested in them but i love them
((((
"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand."
- Lewis Thomas
You and others try marginalize the concerns people have with soe yet there are very real and legitimate issues we have had with them. Yet, for some reason you ignore them and don't even address them. Somehow we're marked as just "haters". If a company or business screwed you and your friends and family the way soe has done (I don't mean the actual game play change with swg, I mean the whole way it was handled) would you continue to do business with them or not let others know what they did? You are now guilty by association, so deal with it. Your game could cure cancer and make peace in the middle east but theres no way I'll ever compromise my principles, like many people here seem willing to do, just so I can play your happy shiny new game. Having "fun" playing a video game isn't worth lowering my personal standards.
It wasn't meant to be insulting in the least. "Religious" issues aren't something you can't argue against with logic or fact, because they are a matter of faith, or in this case, principles. What I'm saying is that since you've made a stand based on principles there is nothing we can do or say that will change it, so there's no point in arguing. I wasn't saying this was bad in any way, and in fact stated that I admired people who were willing to do this (see above). I just said that for us to give up all the people who will see our game because Sony markets (group 6) it in order to keep the people who are in group 5 would be a bad business decision. This isn't anything against *you* at all. Heck, I have hopes that a lot of the SOE detractors will look at this as a chance for them to redeem themselves, at least in part, for their past problems.There was an excellent post over in our forums about boycotts, here, if you want to read it:
http://www.flyinglab.com/forums/showthread.php?p=463714&highlight=Boycott#post463714
But the gist of it is that if Sony is actually LEARNING the lesson that you want them to get (in this case hands off independant developers, letting them handle Customer Service, etc) then maintaining the boycott even AFTER they're changing might not be the best way to teach them a lesson. If you do that they have no incentive to change, ever. If on the other hand you see them behaving in the manner you are trying to encourage, it behooves you to reward that behavior. Kind of like parenting, actually.
In that light, I would hope that after we ship, if the game is good and Sony is behaving, a lot of the people who are now staying away will give it a chance.
Rick Saada - FLS Dev & EPFBM
What you and others fail to grasp is that theres plenty of logic and fact regarding the ill will many feel towards soe. Its just that some people choose to ignore it as long as they can have fun playing a video game. Whatever. As to your other point, I have to admit I might agree with it. If soe has truly changed its ways and has learned its lesson, then yes, I think it might be fair to give them one more shot. However, they haven't proven that they've learned anything except spin control but if they really change and start respecting their customers then I might be willing to get in on a game soe is involved with. I know personally don't hold any ill will towards you or your company and it irritates me too to see people posting that you guys are lying or untruthful about your deal with soe. I believe what your saying. So IF, and thats a big if, soe cleans up their act and you guys maintain control of the game then maybe, MAYBE, I might consider taking a look.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
lets all hug and get along now! group hug!!!
"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand."
- Lewis Thomas
meh, this thread is seriously lacking in rum and booty imo
agreed hehe....its lacking in collector edition info also ~.Omeh, this thread is seriously lacking in rum and booty imo
also i can't wait to head to blizzcon woohoo...sorry offtopic just excited hehe.
"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand."
- Lewis Thomas
Hmm. Us east coasters never gets no love from these gaming conventions... wtf do those silly west coasters got that we don't?
And to keep, slightly, on topic -- I don't have much interest in collectors edition myself -- i'd rather wait to play the game, make sure imma like it then buy cool lewtz off their website... But that's just me.
1. Most people, like myself, aren't upset about the actual changes soe made to swg. Things change and in fact it was the second time swg changed completely in less than a year. I stuck around after the cu and continued to enjoy myself right up until the nge. The problem was the downright shady and unethical way the change was made. They were announcing for months about changes to professions they knew were no longer going to exist and did so right up until the nge was announced. They didn't tell us about the nge until the day AFTER they released the last expansion, and expansion that promised in game itmes for professions that would be eliminated. I wonder why they didn't tell anyone about the nge until after everyone had bought the expansion? Btw , it hasn't been 3 years yet, it hasn't even been 2 years yet. Nge was released in Nov. 2005.
2. Your statement about changes to gameplay relates to the esrb rating system. Meaning, that playing a multi player game alone will have a different rating (say Teen) then it will when you play it with other (say Adult Only). Thats because when you interact with others people can be exposed to all sorts of stuff like foul language, sexism, racism etc. THATS what "game play may change" means.
3. I'm actually having a lot of fun right now in WoW and think very little about swg these days. Its not like I lay awake at night almost 2 years later still thinking about it. I do feel that I should be able to state my opinions in places like this when the topic of soe comes up. People need to know what kind of company they are and the things they've done to and how they treat their customers. What people decided to do with that info is up to them.
4. By getting into business with soe, potbs and any other game company should be prepared for the flack that accompanies it. I still haven't seen any comments by the devs of this game regarding soe's past business practices. Do they think soe was less than honest with their customers adn engaged in some shady business practices or do they think soe did nothing wrong?
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
SOE going anywhere near a game for any reason is enough for me to avoid said game like the plague.
1. Most people, like myself, aren't upset about the actual changes soe made to swg. Things change and in fact it was the second time swg changed completely in less than a year. I stuck around after the cu and continued to enjoy myself right up until the nge. The problem was the downright shady and unethical way the change was made. They were announcing for months about changes to professions they knew were no longer going to exist and did so right up until the nge was announced. They didn't tell us about the nge until the day AFTER they released the last expansion, and expansion that promised in game itmes for professions that would be eliminated. I wonder why they didn't tell anyone about the nge until after everyone had bought the expansion? Btw , it hasn't been 3 years yet, it hasn't even been 2 years yet. Nge was released in Nov. 2005.
2. Your statement about changes to gameplay relates to the esrb rating system. Meaning, that playing a multi player game alone will have a different rating (say Teen) then it will when you play it with other (say Adult Only). Thats because when you interact with others people can be exposed to all sorts of stuff like foul language, sexism, racism etc. THATS what "game play may change" means.
3. I'm actually having a lot of fun right now in WoW and think very little about swg these days. Its not like I lay awake at night almost 2 years later still thinking about it. I do feel that I should be able to state my opinions in places like this when the topic of soe comes up. People need to know what kind of company they are and the things they've done to and how they treat their customers. What people decided to do with that info is up to them.
4. By getting into business with soe, potbs and any other game company should be prepared for the flack that accompanies it. I still haven't seen any comments by the devs of this game regarding soe's past business practices. Do they think soe was less than honest with their customers adn engaged in some shady business practices or do they think soe did nothing wrong?
I don't wanna go into this SOE blablabla thing again.What i do want to say is that in my opinion/belief he was right about the changes made in a game.It clearly states in mmorpg's that i have played that the GAMEPLAY may change during your online gametime.It clearly goes for the game itself as i enterprid it.A lot of people complain about changes that cause bugs/lag/nerfs etc.I think the "gameplay may change" is just a back-up for the developers.The explanation you give for the "gameplay may change" to me looks verry odd to say the least.
60 pages of posts now? LOL...who would have thought....maybe it should be a requirement that you have to read all the posts before adding in the same exact thoughts posted 25 times before....
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
1. Most people, like myself, aren't upset about the actual changes soe made to swg. Things change and in fact it was the second time swg changed completely in less than a year. I stuck around after the cu and continued to enjoy myself right up until the nge. The problem was the downright shady and unethical way the change was made. They were announcing for months about changes to professions they knew were no longer going to exist and did so right up until the nge was announced. They didn't tell us about the nge until the day AFTER they released the last expansion, and expansion that promised in game itmes for professions that would be eliminated. I wonder why they didn't tell anyone about the nge until after everyone had bought the expansion? Btw , it hasn't been 3 years yet, it hasn't even been 2 years yet. Nge was released in Nov. 2005.
2. Your statement about changes to gameplay relates to the esrb rating system. Meaning, that playing a multi player game alone will have a different rating (say Teen) then it will when you play it with other (say Adult Only). Thats because when you interact with others people can be exposed to all sorts of stuff like foul language, sexism, racism etc. THATS what "game play may change" means.
3. I'm actually having a lot of fun right now in WoW and think very little about swg these days. Its not like I lay awake at night almost 2 years later still thinking about it. I do feel that I should be able to state my opinions in places like this when the topic of soe comes up. People need to know what kind of company they are and the things they've done to and how they treat their customers. What people decided to do with that info is up to them.
4. By getting into business with soe, potbs and any other game company should be prepared for the flack that accompanies it. I still haven't seen any comments by the devs of this game regarding soe's past business practices. Do they think soe was less than honest with their customers adn engaged in some shady business practices or do they think soe did nothing wrong?
I don't wanna go into this SOE blablabla thing again.What i do want to say is that in my opinion/belief he was right about the changes made in a game.It clearly states in mmorpg's that i have played that the GAMEPLAY may change during your online gametime.It clearly goes for the game itself as i enterprid it.A lot of people complain about changes that cause bugs/lag/nerfs etc.I think the "gameplay may change" is just a back-up for the developers.The explanation you give for the "gameplay may change" to me looks verry odd to say the least.
Wrong againwww.esrb.org/ratings/ratings_guide.jsp.Read the bottom of the page and you'll find this
Online Rating Notice
Online games that include user-generated content (e.g., chat, maps, skins) carry the notice "Game Experience May Change During Online Play" to warn consumers that content created by players of the game has not been rated by the ESRB.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
Meh, I don't think that ESRB thing has to do with what you think it does. It refers more to what he said and things like lag.
What you are getting at, I think, is the TOS(Terms of Service) that every MMO out makes you click on Accept before you play. Most, if not all TOS' clearly state(paraphrased), "We reserve the right to do wtf ever we want whentf ever we want. If that is cool with you send us your money and click Accept."
Excuse me, this wall over here looks like it has fewer dents for me to bang my head into, brb.
Or that....
You're really splliting hairs there Ginaz. Who cares if he quoted the ESRB "change" wording instead of the clause that applies to probably every single MMO now? I don't think I've ever played a game that didn't let me know before logging in that the developers reserve the right to significantly change the game, and by playing you agree to not sue them if they do.
Meh, I don't think that ESRB thing has to do with what you think it does. It refers more to what he said and things like lag.
What you are getting at, I think, is the TOS(Terms of Service) that every MMO out makes you click on Accept before you play. Most, if not all TOS' clearly state(paraphrased), "We reserve the right to do wtf ever we want whentf ever we want. If that is cool with you send us your money and click Accept."
Excuse me, this wall over here looks like it has fewer dents for me to bang my head into, brb.
Indeed that is what i meant the TOS.Wich basically states the samething.That they can change both the game/software and the eulacompletely without you having the right to moan about it.
Its a very good point you and several other had made here.
If asked what I would want SOE to do in order for me to return my bussiness to them, I would come with a blank stare. Some want some kind of personalized appology, some want certain managers to be replaced, some want a lengthy history of not doing what they did during the NGE...its a series of disjointed reasons. Its a general theme that goes something like "we don't want that SOE shaping the MMO industry".
I'm sure several minds have been changed already since the NGE event so its a matter of changing one mind at a time. The rest have not seen enough change.
I respect you for sticking it out here and approaching this with reason instead of taking the easy way and making it a simple math calculation of subs lost/gained than moving on. I won't be joining in on the POTBS launch, but I will certainly be watching the events unfold over the next year in hopes that your game is successful and that you are able to keep a leash on SOE. Perhaps than I will have found the answer to that question and be satisified.
Perhaps you will end up being SOEs answer to Group 5. Keep up the good fight and set those suckers straight!
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
Hmm...
This talk of the Terms of Service makes me wonder something... I guess we'd have to see an official copy of the SWG TOS prior to all the shit going down but...
If the SWG ToS did, in fact, state that they reserve the right to do what they want when they want -- does that mean that the arguement "SOE LIED" doesn't hold water? Cause, they told you when you clicked Accept that they could change things at anytime, regardless of what you want, regardless of what they tell you...
Hmm...