Its always interesting when SOE haters help empower SOE. Take VG for instance The SOE haters said "OMFG no we won't play because SOE is handling billing!" It is possible that had the SOE haters played and not scared away other players that Sigil would have had enough players to keep VG going, but perhaps ironically enough the SOE haters helped both kill sigil and get SOE another MMORPG for pennies on the dollar (and at 30 million thats alot of savings) SOE will now fix VG up and repackage it and yes make a profit off of it. Who knows once its fixed many SOE haters may even try it out if it gets good enough word of mouth.
Now we see the same thing possibily happening with PoTBS. If PoTBS does not have enough money to keep running (say because of low player base partially caused by SOE haters) Then SOE will have a chance (as they did with VG) of steping in and taking over. Once again aquiring a MMORPG for almost nothing. SOE really should put the haters on its Chirtmas card list as it seems the SOE haters do more to help SOE then hurt it. Way to go guys. SOE says keep up the good work
On a side note is there any good game company? No really, seriously
Turbine closed AC2 months after a expansion thats just as evil as SWG NGE
Funcom released AO in a buggy, broken, and unplayable state for at least 6 months and had players paying to beta. They even asked reviewers not to review the game in its current state back then as it was so unplayable (you know it made VG in beta look like a work of perfection even )
Then theres Mythic, well they are owned by EA who has killed more MMORPG's then all the other companys combined.
Its always interesting when SOE haters help empower SOE. Take VG for instance The SOE haters said "OMFG no we won't play because SOE is handling billing!" It is possible that had the SOE haters played and not scared away other players that Sigil would have had enough players to keep VG going, but perhaps ironically enough the SOE haters helped both kill sigil and get SOE another MMORPG for pennies on the dollar (and at 30 million thats alot of savings) SOE will now fix VG up and repackage it and yes make a profit off of it. Who knows once its fixed many SOE haters may even try it out if it gets good enough word of mouth. Now we see the same thing possibily happening with PoTBS. If PoTBS does not have enough money to keep running (say because of low player base partially caused by SOE haters) Then SOE will have a chance (as they did with VG) of steping in and taking over. Once again aquiring a MMORPG for almost nothing. SOE really should put the haters on its Chirtmas card list as it seems the SOE haters do more to help SOE then hurt it. Way to go guys. SOE says keep up the good work
On a side note is there any good game company? No really, seriously Turbine closed AC2 months after a expansion thats just as evil as SWG NGE Funcom released AO in a buggy, broken, and unplayable state for at least 6 months and had players paying to beta. They even asked reviewers not to review the game in its current state back then as it was so unplayable (you know it made VG in beta look like a work of perfection even ) Then theres Mythic, well they are owned by EA who has killed more MMORPG's then all the other companys combined.
Just alittle food for thought.
Logic crits you for 989843587987394875987, you die.
Too bad this will fall on deaf ears but QFT all the same.
Neverknow when you have the forums blocked for all the SOE *flamers* maybe you should include poeple like yourself in there as well and any other free thinking person ..hell why not get rid of the forums all together then nobody can say anything that might upset poeple's delicate little ideas of how the world should be
Sorry, I disagree and stand by my statement. It is one thing to simply voice an opinion, it is another to attack a game and it's community simply on the basis of "You are with SOE". People like Shayde, for example, who refuse to give any reason for why they are flaming THIS company and THIS game (and other games/devs on these boards) other than "SOE must die!!".
95% of the so-called SOE "vets" are nothing more than flamers/trolls. They have shown this time after time after time, ruining any thread that dares to say anything positive regarding SOE or games/devs associated with SOE.
If I was in charge of PotBS marketing, I'd have everything removed from here. Maybe it's just me, but oh well.
Its always interesting when SOE haters help empower SOE. Take VG for instance The SOE haters said "OMFG no we won't play because SOE is handling billing!" It is possible that had the SOE haters played and not scared away other players that Sigil would have had enough players to keep VG going, but perhaps ironically enough the SOE haters helped both kill sigil and get SOE another MMORPG for pennies on the dollar (and at 30 million thats alot of savings) SOE will now fix VG up and repackage it and yes make a profit off of it. Who knows once its fixed many SOE haters may even try it out if it gets good enough word of mouth. Now we see the same thing possibily happening with PoTBS. If PoTBS does not have enough money to keep running (say because of low player base partially caused by SOE haters) Then SOE will have a chance (as they did with VG) of steping in and taking over. Once again aquiring a MMORPG for almost nothing. SOE really should put the haters on its Chirtmas card list as it seems the SOE haters do more to help SOE then hurt it. Way to go guys. SOE says keep up the good work
On a side note is there any good game company? No really, seriously Turbine closed AC2 months after a expansion thats just as evil as SWG NGE Funcom released AO in a buggy, broken, and unplayable state for at least 6 months and had players paying to beta. They even asked reviewers not to review the game in its current state back then as it was so unplayable (you know it made VG in beta look like a work of perfection even ) Then theres Mythic, well they are owned by EA who has killed more MMORPG's then all the other companys combined.
Just alittle food for thought.
Its signing up with SOE as your publisher. Once that line is crossed and a product gets onto the Station Pass, the "SOE haters" don't distiguish between what is SOE developed and what are affiliated games no matter what nuances are discussed. These folks don't care if it gets bought, sold, canceled or otherwise, they just have no desire to go there.
We can call it a phsycological disease or temper-tantrum, it does not change the situation. Only SOE can do things to get over this, its not something the players need to spend any time reconciling.
As far as all publishers being bad at some level...I can not disagree with that. Turbine, Funcom, Mythic and CCP seem to be doing a better job of recovering their reputation though, what is SOE not doing right to fix theirs?
On the contrary, there are more and more $OE "haters" all the time, and for good reason. I understand you dont like this, and dont feel people should not like a company based on their terrible rep, but sorry to say people are allowed their opinions on this site and others, just like you are. Its not hijacking, this isnt a love fest for your game. Critical dicussion is allowed.
Originally posted by Opticaleye
You SOE haters are beyond ridiculous. Is this the only thing you think about? There is not 1 thread on this whole website that has not been hijacked by you guys.If a player were to ask a question on this site about a SOE game and it was about the game you guys would hijack it im sure. I find it funny that you doom POTBS from the get go.FLS decided to go with a major publisher and you guys cant beleive it so you trash it without even asking why they would do this. Instead of:Hmmm i know i dont like SOE so why would this potentially very succesful game that ive been hearing about for the past 2 or 3 years choose them to publish?Perhaps i should find out the reason behind this? We hear this:OH NOOOOO my god it is doomed for i will NEVER play this game.My money would be better spent in hell!!!!Why oh why would they do this to me!!! Instead of placing a bit of faith in FLS you just go ahead and doom them from the start.Im really sure they appreciate this as a team that has developed this game over the course of what 5 years? You SOE haters are starting to lose your voice because most people are sick to death of your same tired whiny little complaints. Its like the guy you work with that hates his job and walks around bitching all the time.He always says "im getting a new job im out of here by the end of this month!!".Everyone rolls their eyes at him and goes back to work.He never gets a new job and is back the next month repeating the cycle. If you dont like it dont play it but stop hijacking every thread that has to do with SOE.There are people who play games published and made by SOE that actually enjoy them learn to accept it.
Where did you get the idea that i was actually going to play POTBS?
I understand that critical discussion is allowed but so is intelligent discussion.People still play games made by and published by them its high time your side of the fence accepted it.
SWG as you socalled "Swg Vets" is long gone as you once knew it.Your not getting your special servers .....ever.Wash your hands of it and walk away.
BTW i am not sure what you mean by "Lovefest" i never defended the gameplay or otherwise in my thread.To me its just another game that ill try when a trial becomes available.
Its always interesting when SOE haters help empower SOE. Take VG for instance The SOE haters said "OMFG no we won't play because SOE is handling billing!" It is possible that had the SOE haters played and not scared away other players that Sigil would have had enough players to keep VG going, but perhaps ironically enough the SOE haters helped both kill sigil and get SOE another MMORPG for pennies on the dollar (and at 30 million thats alot of savings) SOE will now fix VG up and repackage it and yes make a profit off of it. Who knows once its fixed many SOE haters may even try it out if it gets good enough word of mouth. Now we see the same thing possibily happening with PoTBS. If PoTBS does not have enough money to keep running (say because of low player base partially caused by SOE haters) Then SOE will have a chance (as they did with VG) of steping in and taking over. Once again aquiring a MMORPG for almost nothing. SOE really should put the haters on its Chirtmas card list as it seems the SOE haters do more to help SOE then hurt it. Way to go guys. SOE says keep up the good work
On a side note is there any good game company? No really, seriously Turbine closed AC2 months after a expansion thats just as evil as SWG NGE Funcom released AO in a buggy, broken, and unplayable state for at least 6 months and had players paying to beta. They even asked reviewers not to review the game in its current state back then as it was so unplayable (you know it made VG in beta look like a work of perfection even ) Then theres Mythic, well they are owned by EA who has killed more MMORPG's then all the other companys combined.
Just alittle food for thought.
Its signing up with SOE as your publisher. Once that line is crossed and a product gets onto the Station Pass, the "SOE haters" don't distiguish between what is SOE developed and what are affiliated games no matter what nuances are discussed. These folks don't care if it gets bought, sold, canceled or otherwise, they just have no desire to go there.
We can call it a phsycological disease or temper-tantrum, it does not change the situation. Only SOE can do things to get over this, its not something the players need to spend any time reconciling.
As far as all publishers being bad at some level...I can not disagree with that. Turbine, Funcom, Mythic and CCP seem to be doing a better job of recovering their reputation though, what is SOE not doing right to fix theirs?
The problem is that so many of the SOE haters have unreasonable expectations of what should be done -- they want pre-cu servers which would be a pain to implement/support (they forget how buggy the old game was and it didn't have the tools to fix things) and they want money back for subscription time they used.....both will not happen.
Then you have situations like Dento who just let SOE keep their 60 dollars without a fight to get it back (assuming they should rightfully have it: "The problem I had that set me off was Sony's billing practices and the fact they over charged me for a few months and I never got my money back. Now it was only $60 some may say but stealing is stealing no matter how much it is." (fromt post 503 of mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/136530/page/11). Perhaps letting SOE keep the 60 dollars entitles Dento to justify and enjoy his griefing but frankly, if that was my money, I'd still be calling and emailing customer service as well as reporting it to the BBB if they indeed mistakenly overcharged me.
And there are those who made mistakes during the subscription/cancellation process who just don't want to assume responsibility for their action/inaction. An example is Colney when he couldn't answer his challenge question in order to cancel vanguard: "The security question, in my mind, always is there for the idiots that forget their password. My password for gaming subscriptions is always the same, hence i never forget it. I am 1000% certain i will not forget my PASSWORD. Thus what i do is i just fill in something into the field of the security question, thinking it wont matter as i wont forget my password anyway....." (from post 6 of mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/1482212#1482212 ). Now, in Colney's defense, he's a self-proclaimed non SOE-hater because they "make decent games" but he still blames SOE for the self-inflicted problems he faced.
Other than Smed saying "I'm sorry", which I'm not sure he has (although he has admitted the mistake and assured it won't happen again) I don't think there's much SOE can do to make peace except go about business, try to make/acquire good games and do its job as well as it can -- the players will eventually come around then.
Except FLS has said that SOE doesn't get their IP. Oh, I know, now you're going to say that FLS is just lying, cause that's the best argument you can come up with. Seriously, all you SOE haters need to ... [blah, blah, blah]
Nice attack HAD I stated that SOE took their IP. Next time, do a bit of reading before making such an outright stereotypical attack. Or ask a question first before firing your cannons and risk putting your foot into your mouth. You have only discredited yourself by making an assumption that I did not read the Flying Labs/SOE articles. But please continue, I like seeing attackers back peddle on their mistakes.
Originally posted by kjm2006
I don't know the exact numbers, but I know that SOE doesn't get a big slice of the cake, as they didn't have to put up a large amount of money upfront, so SOE get less then 50% from the subs as they don't do much of the work, I mean all they do after you have brought the game is do the billing lol. Also why do you write in green, do you think you are special or something, because all I get from it is "look at me look at me!!!!"
Retail distribution does take up a significant amount of cost. As with other publishers, they will take control of servers, add new employees or outsource contracts to other studios. SOE did not do that in this case, and so the percentage would seem to be on the low side. Billing services alone take about 4% to 10%.
As for typing in Green, that is due to tradition from the years of monochrome monitors. Secondly, it works as you describe, it catches the reader's eye from the white text and help to show the difference of statements at a quick glance.
Originally posted by therain93
SOE should do something for the players --
Let's see, they bend over backwards for the NGE crowd now. They've released EQ2 which seems to be doing nicely. They rescued Vanguard. They're giving PotBS a shot at the big times.
Yeah, SOE's done nothing for the players.
Oh yes, the "SOE is doing wonderful things for players by the following games" maneuver.
Please do explain this "bend over backwards" for those who left prior and after the NGE due to mismanagement and deception. I would like to be informed of what policies or incentives were or are provided to win back dissatisfied customers. Please do tell or provide the links.
EQ2 has what to do with customers? Releasing EQ2 was not done for the customers or out of the goodness of SOE's heart, but for business to continue to capture the fantasy based market. Seeking the almighty US Dollar. Please define "nicely."
Allowing POTBS at the big times? So, therefore people should feel priviledge, honored that SOE is allowing an independent developer with access to retail distribution? This is a business decision, since POTBS has the potential to earn a very rewarding revenue. SOE will not and cannot provide such services for all online titles. Only those with the potential to succeed will get the shot at it; unless SOE requires an upfront fee rather than a deferred revenue cut. Had POTBS have low expectations, SOE would not have made a deal; even if the players wanted it. This (in terms of SOE) has nothing to do with the hearts and minds and loyalty to customers. This is business.
And that is why...
Conservatives' pessimism is conducive to their happiness in three ways. First, they are rarely surprised -- they are right more often than not about the course of events. Second, when they are wrong they are happy to be so. Third, because pessimistic conservatives put not their faith in princes -- government -- they accept that happiness is a function of fending for oneself. They believe that happiness is an activity -- it is inseparable from the pursuit of happiness.
I'll clarify. Making decisions to turn a greater profit is not a bad thing, unless the decisions are based on poor business ethics and practices (ie: deceiving the customer). When such decisions are made, then a backlash or negative press occurs; as demostrated for about three years now.
Essentially, SOE has not gone out of its way to restore customer relations.
Restoring customer relations is easy, can even be done without ever admitting to a mistake; it does take an investment of time and capital. Even if the number of very strongly dissatisfied customers of SOE is very small, such a PR campaign will help to calm down of what we are seeing here. For example, Flying Labs have been in contact with their user base and seem to be taking pro-active means; why can't SOE follow their lead?
And that is why...
Conservatives' pessimism is conducive to their happiness in three ways. First, they are rarely surprised -- they are right more often than not about the course of events. Second, when they are wrong they are happy to be so. Third, because pessimistic conservatives put not their faith in princes -- government -- they accept that happiness is a function of fending for oneself. They believe that happiness is an activity -- it is inseparable from the pursuit of happiness.
If I may get a little more personal then, I notice you have your age hidden but you seem to be fairly mature so I would assume you have a job right? Typical 9 ta 5'er? Are you at work while making these posts? Does your employer pay you to post on mmorpg.com? Are you not cheating your employer out of their money? What are you going to do to compensate for that?
Course, if you don't work or you are paid to post here then disregard the above.
I really read some interesting stuff here but there are so many errors from all the haters I don't really know where to start.
1. As mentioned a gazillion times, SOE aren't involved in the development of PoTBS.
2. SOE havent killed any games, they have rescued 2 games from certain death, Matrix online and Vanguard so those can keep going with it's fanbase although it's kinda small. Even planetside with less than 10k active players are still very much alive aswell, if this had been run by a small independant company it would have been dead a long time ago.
I'll clarify. Making decisions to turn a greater profit is not a bad thing, unless the decisions are based on poor business ethics and practices (ie: deceiving the customer). When such decisions are made, then a backlash or negative press occurs; as demostrated for about three years now. Essentially, SOE has not gone out of its way to restore customer relations. Restoring customer relations is easy, can even be done without ever admitting to a mistake; it does take an investment of time and capital. Even if the number of very strongly dissatisfied customers of SOE is very small, such a PR campaign will help to calm down of what we are seeing here. For example, Flying Labs have been in contact with their user base and seem to be taking pro-active means; why can't SOE follow their lead?
Because, as stated in the deal, customer support for this title is not a responsibility of SOE. It's Flying Lab's responsibility. Going even further, it's not really rhe responsibility of a member of the art team (me), or even an owner of the company (Rick), to come to this forum and provide you with information to alleviate your concerns, but it's something members of our company are glad to take the time to do anyways. We do this because we believe an open discourse with our customers is an important asset not utilized often enough. So, as you can understand, it's somewhat frustrating to have our efforts, quite frankly, spat upon, just because SOE is boxing, marketing, and handling billing for us.
Certainly, I don't have any confidence that I or anyone else can change your mind, and I'm not trying to. There has been some disinformation posted in this thread, and when I see it, I'll respond to it with the facts, futile or no.
On the contrary, there are more and more $OE "haters" all the time, and for good reason. I understand you dont like this, and dont feel people should not like a company based on their terrible rep, but sorry to say people are allowed their opinions on this site and others, just like you are. Its not hijacking, this isnt a love fest for your game. Critical dicussion is allowed.
Originally posted by Opticaleye
You SOE haters are beyond ridiculous. Is this the only thing you think about? There is not 1 thread on this whole website that has not been hijacked by you guys.If a player were to ask a question on this site about a SOE game and it was about the game you guys would hijack it im sure. I find it funny that you doom POTBS from the get go.FLS decided to go with a major publisher and you guys cant beleive it so you trash it without even asking why they would do this. Instead of:Hmmm i know i dont like SOE so why would this potentially very succesful game that ive been hearing about for the past 2 or 3 years choose them to publish?Perhaps i should find out the reason behind this? We hear this:OH NOOOOO my god it is doomed for i will NEVER play this game.My money would be better spent in hell!!!!Why oh why would they do this to me!!! Instead of placing a bit of faith in FLS you just go ahead and doom them from the start.Im really sure they appreciate this as a team that has developed this game over the course of what 5 years? You SOE haters are starting to lose your voice because most people are sick to death of your same tired whiny little complaints. Its like the guy you work with that hates his job and walks around bitching all the time.He always says "im getting a new job im out of here by the end of this month!!".Everyone rolls their eyes at him and goes back to work.He never gets a new job and is back the next month repeating the cycle. If you dont like it dont play it but stop hijacking every thread that has to do with SOE.There are people who play games published and made by SOE that actually enjoy them learn to accept it.
Where did you get the idea that i was actually going to play POTBS?
I understand that critical discussion is allowed but so is intelligent discussion.People still play games made by and published by them its high time your side of the fence accepted it.
SWG as you socalled "Swg Vets" is long gone as you once knew it.Your not getting your special servers .....ever.Wash your hands of it and walk away.
BTW i am not sure what you mean by "Lovefest" i never defended the gameplay or otherwise in my thread.To me its just another game that ill try when a trial becomes available.
As I see it, there has been a fair bit of "intelligent. posts. Perhaps they are just not what you want to hear. Intelligent doesnt necessarily equate with what you agree with. I have solid reasons and have posted them elsewhere. And, I never played SWG.
At the end of the Day SOE contributes a lot more to the Industry than a bunch of whining "SWG SOE Haters", you just need to grow up a little and move on. And acknowledge what SONY Online Entertainment contributes yes yes thats right.
________________________________________________________ Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
Essentially, SOE has not gone out of its way to restore customer relations.
They have done plenty, just not the things you want them to. This is why people are interpreting your posts as childish temper tantrum. You are not the centre of the universe and no gaming company is going to wrap their entire policy around you personally.
Its always interesting when SOE haters help empower SOE. Take VG for instance The SOE haters said "OMFG no we won't play because SOE is handling billing!" It is possible that had the SOE haters played and not scared away other players that Sigil would have had enough players to keep VG going, but perhaps ironically enough the SOE haters helped both kill sigil and get SOE another MMORPG for pennies on the dollar (and at 30 million thats alot of savings) SOE will now fix VG up and repackage it and yes make a profit off of it. Who knows once its fixed many SOE haters may even try it out if it gets good enough word of mouth. Now we see the same thing possibily happening with PoTBS. If PoTBS does not have enough money to keep running (say because of low player base partially caused by SOE haters) Then SOE will have a chance (as they did with VG) of steping in and taking over. Once again aquiring a MMORPG for almost nothing. SOE really should put the haters on its Chirtmas card list as it seems the SOE haters do more to help SOE then hurt it. Way to go guys. SOE says keep up the good work
On a side note is there any good game company? No really, seriously Turbine closed AC2 months after a expansion thats just as evil as SWG NGE Funcom released AO in a buggy, broken, and unplayable state for at least 6 months and had players paying to beta. They even asked reviewers not to review the game in its current state back then as it was so unplayable (you know it made VG in beta look like a work of perfection even ) Then theres Mythic, well they are owned by EA who has killed more MMORPG's then all the other companys combined.
Just alittle food for thought.
Ok so you totally ignore the fact that Vanguard had some of the worst word of mouth about the game itself before release. Which had nothing at all to do with SOE since the word of mouth started back when it was still in beta with MS. The released game was a typical McQuaid release - buggy, unfinished, lacking end game. I really do like how you advocate that people should just shut up and be buried under figurative tons of hype and bs. Yep just suck it up , ignore any past problems you have had a with a game company , their service , or their products. BE a sheep , don't question factors that MAY ( capped so you notice it's not indicative one way or the other) affect your gaming experience. Oddly enough I do think SOE did leave Vanguard alone up until the sales and subs came in the first month and SOE wanted to make some of their money back. Mind you this is a departure from the norm for SOE games. I never played SWG but I have seen the same thing said in 3 different SOE games EQ . EQ2 , and Planetside. Devs pretty much said " SOE (or the Smed) is workign with us but it will not affect the game itself". Which always turned out to be a blatent lie, because after SOE got involved the games started changing at an alarming rate, especially right at the end of beta and the opening of the game itself. I have always been a big believer in word of mouth being the best advertisement for a game. Hype and publishing can help with initial box sales but word of mouth will make or break a game in the long run. The SOE deal has just made it so that I will not buy the game at release. Maybe after 3-6 months if the word of mouth about the game is good enough I may change my mind. I just refuse to buy any SOE game at release anymore. I have been burned too often by them and I am not foolish enough to take anything they say at face value untill they prove that they have changed.
Originally posted by woodrodius Because, as stated in the deal, customer support for this title is not a responsibility of SOE. It's Flying Lab's responsibility. Going even further, it's not really rhe responsibility of a member of the art team (me), or even an owner of the company (Rick), to come to this forum and provide you with information to alleviate your concerns, but it's something members of our company are glad to take the time to do anyways. We do this because we believe an open discourse with our customers is an important asset not utilized often enough. So, as you can understand, it's somewhat frustrating to have our efforts, quite frankly, spat upon, just because SOE is boxing, marketing, and handling billing for us. Certainly, I don't have any confidence that I or anyone else can change your mind, and I'm not trying to. There has been some disinformation posted in this thread, and when I see it, I'll respond to it with the facts, futile or no.
That is great for you and your company in allowing open discussion, especially at another site.
I will admit being surprised and glad to be so, that this thread is still be read.
Yes I can understand the frustration of the situation, since your title is taking flack from another company's problem and there is not much that can be done about it from your side.
But maybe there can be.
Since Flying Labs does control customer support, perhaps a sort of incentive program can be provided in helping to mitigate this bad press with SOE. Yes, I understand that providing such a program because of someone else's problem is not how this should be done and I doubt it will silence the dissatisfaction with SOE (in general)); but should help in ending the grief with your company; such as on these forums.
Both gamers and gamer developers are creative and imaginative, there are a number of ways that can be done in mitigating this problem. Consider it as one more business challenge.
Your company has provided a good role-model for keeping the customer informed and engaged. I think with just some bit of effort, your company can succeed in mitigating this negative SOE fallout and actually bring back some of those "Group 5" members.
And that is why...
Conservatives' pessimism is conducive to their happiness in three ways. First, they are rarely surprised -- they are right more often than not about the course of events. Second, when they are wrong they are happy to be so. Third, because pessimistic conservatives put not their faith in princes -- government -- they accept that happiness is a function of fending for oneself. They believe that happiness is an activity -- it is inseparable from the pursuit of happiness.
They have done plenty, just not the things you want them to. This is why people are interpreting your posts as childish temper tantrum. You are not the centre of the universe and no gaming company is going to wrap their entire policy around you personally.
Ah yes, a personal attack.
You got to do better than that.
Tell you what then, let us be constructive.
What would you do to help out with reducing this negative SOE fallout, rather than attacking or telling dissatisfied customers to knock it off. This has been going on for sometime now (over 2 years?) and such tactics have not worked. So what other methods can there be done?
If you like to play as a Hero, then here is your chance to be one here.
And that is why...
Conservatives' pessimism is conducive to their happiness in three ways. First, they are rarely surprised -- they are right more often than not about the course of events. Second, when they are wrong they are happy to be so. Third, because pessimistic conservatives put not their faith in princes -- government -- they accept that happiness is a function of fending for oneself. They believe that happiness is an activity -- it is inseparable from the pursuit of happiness.
At the end of the Day SOE contributes a lot more to the Industry than a bunch of whining "SWG SOE Haters", you just need to grow up a little and move on. And acknowledge what SONY Online Entertainment contributes yes yes thats right.
Come on Sparky.. name ONE thing worth a damn.
Shayde - SWG (dead) Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled - Some deluded SWG fanboi who pities me. I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too. 09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
I'm trying to think of what FLS could do to provide incentives for dissatisfied SOE customers that wouldn't somehow apply to the entire playing audience.
I guess there's expensive 'SWITCH' campaigns wherein they offer some reward for mailing in (useless) disks of another game. I kind of wonder if the reward would exceed the cost there. So many people have sworn that NOTHING will convince them to play a game SOE has touched-- they don't want reimbursement and wouldn't trust it were it offered.
It seems to me like the best thing they could do is... run a good game. And not let SOE eat it.
But I have only a single brain. Are there other options?
Originally posted by woodrodius Because, as stated in the deal, customer support for this title is not a responsibility of SOE. It's Flying Lab's responsibility. Going even further, it's not really rhe responsibility of a member of the art team (me), or even an owner of the company (Rick), to come to this forum and provide you with information to alleviate your concerns, but it's something members of our company are glad to take the time to do anyways. We do this because we believe an open discourse with our customers is an important asset not utilized often enough. So, as you can understand, it's somewhat frustrating to have our efforts, quite frankly, spat upon, just because SOE is boxing, marketing, and handling billing for us. Certainly, I don't have any confidence that I or anyone else can change your mind, and I'm not trying to. There has been some disinformation posted in this thread, and when I see it, I'll respond to it with the facts, futile or no.
That is great for you and your company in allowing open discussion, especially at another site.
I will admit being surprised and glad to be so, that this thread is still be read.
Yes I can understand the frustration of the situation, since your title is taking flack from another company's problem and there is not much that can be done about it from your side.
But maybe there can be.
Since Flying Labs does control customer support, perhaps a sort of incentive program can be provided in helping to mitigate this bad press with SOE. Yes, I understand that providing such a program because of someone else's problem is not how this should be done and I doubt it will silence the dissatisfaction with SOE (in general)); but should help in ending the grief with your company; such as on these forums.
Both gamers and gamer developers are creative and imaginative, there are a number of ways that can be done in mitigating this problem. Consider it as one more business challenge.
Your company has provided a good role-model for keeping the customer informed and engaged. I think with just some bit of effort, your company can succeed in mitigating this negative SOE fallout and actually bring back some of those "Group 5" members.
So, in other words, it's another case of SOE "vets" wanting compensation to knock their crap off? You just proved most of the points in the negative about SOE "vets" right there. Congratulations.
Woodrodius, I commend you for being able to maintain a civil tongue regarding the accusations and unfounded flames by the "vets". Personally, I'd have told them and this site to shove it.
I'm trying to think of what FLS could do to provide incentives for dissatisfied SOE customers that wouldn't somehow apply to the entire playing audience. I guess there's expensive 'SWITCH' campaigns wherein they offer some reward for mailing in (useless) disks of another game. I kind of wonder if the reward would exceed the cost there. So many people have sworn that NOTHING will convince them to play a game SOE has touched-- they don't want reimbursement and wouldn't trust it were it offered. It seems to me like the best thing they could do is... run a good game. And not let SOE eat it. But I have only a single brain. Are there other options?
They don't need to provide any "incentives" to SOE haters. The people willing and wanting to play this game far outweigh the few anti-SOE flamebois.
I dont know which group I fall into on your list Rick , I want to play the game ...I can even admire your standpoint on this topic,but to trust in soe ? I don't know ,I admit they are fine while you are playing the game as far as billing is concerned ..it's when you wish to leave for whatever reasons that's when the trouble starts . I have been watching this game for quite a few years and now it's finally close to release I'm torn in two over it . I have no doubts its a good game and I'm not concerned that soe will get their finger into it , you and the Dev's have made it clear the game is yours rock solid . I'm not a soe hater and I dont have any particular need to boycott them ,just someone who is very carefull were I spend my hard earned cash .
hehehe Neverknow you are a soehater 's hater , you flame them just as much as they flame soe ..is there really any difference at all between you and them ? both of you are entitled to an opinion ,and both of you get off subject to flame each other
PotBS is a good game no doubts there ,even the ones who are hanging back from it because of soe say that . Most complaints in the negitive seem to be based mainly on disappointment ..not their faith in the game .
Comments
Its always interesting when SOE haters help empower SOE. Take VG for instance The SOE haters said "OMFG no we won't play because SOE is handling billing!" It is possible that had the SOE haters played and not scared away other players that Sigil would have had enough players to keep VG going, but perhaps ironically enough the SOE haters helped both kill sigil and get SOE another MMORPG for pennies on the dollar (and at 30 million thats alot of savings) SOE will now fix VG up and repackage it and yes make a profit off of it. Who knows once its fixed many SOE haters may even try it out if it gets good enough word of mouth.
Now we see the same thing possibily happening with PoTBS. If PoTBS does not have enough money to keep running (say because of low player base partially caused by SOE haters) Then SOE will have a chance (as they did with VG) of steping in and taking over. Once again aquiring a MMORPG for almost nothing. SOE really should put the haters on its Chirtmas card list as it seems the SOE haters do more to help SOE then hurt it. Way to go guys. SOE says keep up the good work
On a side note is there any good game company? No really, seriously
Turbine closed AC2 months after a expansion thats just as evil as SWG NGE
Funcom released AO in a buggy, broken, and unplayable state for at least 6 months and had players paying to beta. They even asked reviewers not to review the game in its current state back then as it was so unplayable (you know it made VG in beta look like a work of perfection even
)
Then theres Mythic, well they are owned by EA who has killed more MMORPG's then all the other companys combined.
Just alittle food for thought.
Too bad this will fall on deaf ears but QFT all the same.
Sorry, I disagree and stand by my statement. It is one thing to simply voice an opinion, it is another to attack a game and it's community simply on the basis of "You are with SOE". People like Shayde, for example, who refuse to give any reason for why they are flaming THIS company and THIS game (and other games/devs on these boards) other than "SOE must die!!".
95% of the so-called SOE "vets" are nothing more than flamers/trolls. They have shown this time after time after time, ruining any thread that dares to say anything positive regarding SOE or games/devs associated with SOE.
If I was in charge of PotBS marketing, I'd have everything removed from here. Maybe it's just me, but oh well.
Its signing up with SOE as your publisher. Once that line is crossed and a product gets onto the Station Pass, the "SOE haters" don't distiguish between what is SOE developed and what are affiliated games no matter what nuances are discussed. These folks don't care if it gets bought, sold, canceled or otherwise, they just have no desire to go there.
We can call it a phsycological disease or temper-tantrum, it does not change the situation. Only SOE can do things to get over this, its not something the players need to spend any time reconciling.
As far as all publishers being bad at some level...I can not disagree with that. Turbine, Funcom, Mythic and CCP seem to be doing a better job of recovering their reputation though, what is SOE not doing right to fix theirs?
Where did you get the idea that i was actually going to play POTBS?I understand that critical discussion is allowed but so is intelligent discussion.People still play games made by and published by them its high time your side of the fence accepted it.
SWG as you socalled "Swg Vets" is long gone as you once knew it.Your not getting your special servers .....ever.Wash your hands of it and walk away.
BTW i am not sure what you mean by "Lovefest" i never defended the gameplay or otherwise in my thread.To me its just another game that ill try when a trial becomes available.
What is your physical limit?
Its signing up with SOE as your publisher. Once that line is crossed and a product gets onto the Station Pass, the "SOE haters" don't distiguish between what is SOE developed and what are affiliated games no matter what nuances are discussed. These folks don't care if it gets bought, sold, canceled or otherwise, they just have no desire to go there.
We can call it a phsycological disease or temper-tantrum, it does not change the situation. Only SOE can do things to get over this, its not something the players need to spend any time reconciling.
As far as all publishers being bad at some level...I can not disagree with that. Turbine, Funcom, Mythic and CCP seem to be doing a better job of recovering their reputation though, what is SOE not doing right to fix theirs?
The problem is that so many of the SOE haters have unreasonable expectations of what should be done -- they want pre-cu servers which would be a pain to implement/support (they forget how buggy the old game was and it didn't have the tools to fix things) and they want money back for subscription time they used.....both will not happen.
Then you have situations like Dento who just let SOE keep their 60 dollars without a fight to get it back (assuming they should rightfully have it: "The problem I had that set me off was Sony's billing practices and the fact they over charged me for a few months and I never got my money back. Now it was only $60 some may say but stealing is stealing no matter how much it is." (fromt post 503 of mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/136530/page/11). Perhaps letting SOE keep the 60 dollars entitles Dento to justify and enjoy his griefing but frankly, if that was my money, I'd still be calling and emailing customer service as well as reporting it to the BBB if they indeed mistakenly overcharged me.
And there are those who made mistakes during the subscription/cancellation process who just don't want to assume responsibility for their action/inaction. An example is Colney when he couldn't answer his challenge question in order to cancel vanguard: "The security question, in my mind, always is there for the idiots that forget their password. My password for gaming subscriptions is always the same, hence i never forget it. I am 1000% certain i will not forget my PASSWORD. Thus what i do is i just fill in something into the field of the security question, thinking it wont matter as i wont forget my password anyway....." (from post 6 of mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/1482212#1482212 ). Now, in Colney's defense, he's a self-proclaimed non SOE-hater because they "make decent games" but he still blames SOE for the self-inflicted problems he faced.
Other than Smed saying "I'm sorry", which I'm not sure he has (although he has admitted the mistake and assured it won't happen again) I don't think there's much SOE can do to make peace except go about business, try to make/acquire good games and do its job as well as it can -- the players will eventually come around then.
Retail distribution does take up a significant amount of cost. As with other publishers, they will take control of servers, add new employees or outsource contracts to other studios. SOE did not do that in this case, and so the percentage would seem to be on the low side. Billing services alone take about 4% to 10%.
As for typing in Green, that is due to tradition from the years of monochrome monitors. Secondly, it works as you describe, it catches the reader's eye from the white text and help to show the difference of statements at a quick glance.
Oh yes, the "SOE is doing wonderful things for players by the following games" maneuver.
Please do explain this "bend over backwards" for those who left prior and after the NGE due to mismanagement and deception. I would like to be informed of what policies or incentives were or are provided to win back dissatisfied customers. Please do tell or provide the links.
EQ2 has what to do with customers? Releasing EQ2 was not done for the customers or out of the goodness of SOE's heart, but for business to continue to capture the fantasy based market. Seeking the almighty US Dollar. Please define "nicely."
Allowing POTBS at the big times? So, therefore people should feel priviledge, honored that SOE is allowing an independent developer with access to retail distribution? This is a business decision, since POTBS has the potential to earn a very rewarding revenue. SOE will not and cannot provide such services for all online titles. Only those with the potential to succeed will get the shot at it; unless SOE requires an upfront fee rather than a deferred revenue cut. Had POTBS have low expectations, SOE would not have made a deal; even if the players wanted it. This (in terms of SOE) has nothing to do with the hearts and minds and loyalty to customers. This is business.
And that is why...
Conservatives' pessimism is conducive to their happiness in three ways. First, they are rarely surprised -- they are right more often than not about the course of events. Second, when they are wrong they are happy to be so. Third, because pessimistic conservatives put not their faith in princes -- government -- they accept that happiness is a function of fending for oneself. They believe that happiness is an activity -- it is inseparable from the pursuit of happiness.
Dracus,
You make it sound like SOE making decisions based upon making money is a bad thing. Am I reading that wrong?
@Kovah:
I'll clarify. Making decisions to turn a greater profit is not a bad thing, unless the decisions are based on poor business ethics and practices (ie: deceiving the customer). When such decisions are made, then a backlash or negative press occurs; as demostrated for about three years now.
Essentially, SOE has not gone out of its way to restore customer relations.
Restoring customer relations is easy, can even be done without ever admitting to a mistake; it does take an investment of time and capital. Even if the number of very strongly dissatisfied customers of SOE is very small, such a PR campaign will help to calm down of what we are seeing here. For example, Flying Labs have been in contact with their user base and seem to be taking pro-active means; why can't SOE follow their lead?
And that is why...
Conservatives' pessimism is conducive to their happiness in three ways. First, they are rarely surprised -- they are right more often than not about the course of events. Second, when they are wrong they are happy to be so. Third, because pessimistic conservatives put not their faith in princes -- government -- they accept that happiness is a function of fending for oneself. They believe that happiness is an activity -- it is inseparable from the pursuit of happiness.
If I may get a little more personal then, I notice you have your age hidden but you seem to be fairly mature so I would assume you have a job right? Typical 9 ta 5'er? Are you at work while making these posts? Does your employer pay you to post on mmorpg.com? Are you not cheating your employer out of their money? What are you going to do to compensate for that?
Course, if you don't work or you are paid to post here then disregard the above.
I really read some interesting stuff here but there are so many errors from all the haters I don't really know where to start.
1. As mentioned a gazillion times, SOE aren't involved in the development of PoTBS.
2. SOE havent killed any games, they have rescued 2 games from certain death, Matrix online and Vanguard so those can keep going with it's fanbase although it's kinda small. Even planetside with less than 10k active players are still very much alive aswell, if this had been run by a small independant company it would have been dead a long time ago.
3. See 1
4. See 1
Because, as stated in the deal, customer support for this title is not a responsibility of SOE. It's Flying Lab's responsibility. Going even further, it's not really rhe responsibility of a member of the art team (me), or even an owner of the company (Rick), to come to this forum and provide you with information to alleviate your concerns, but it's something members of our company are glad to take the time to do anyways. We do this because we believe an open discourse with our customers is an important asset not utilized often enough. So, as you can understand, it's somewhat frustrating to have our efforts, quite frankly, spat upon, just because SOE is boxing, marketing, and handling billing for us.
Certainly, I don't have any confidence that I or anyone else can change your mind, and I'm not trying to. There has been some disinformation posted in this thread, and when I see it, I'll respond to it with the facts, futile or no.
Where did you get the idea that i was actually going to play POTBS?I understand that critical discussion is allowed but so is intelligent discussion.People still play games made by and published by them its high time your side of the fence accepted it.
SWG as you socalled "Swg Vets" is long gone as you once knew it.Your not getting your special servers .....ever.Wash your hands of it and walk away.
BTW i am not sure what you mean by "Lovefest" i never defended the gameplay or otherwise in my thread.To me its just another game that ill try when a trial becomes available.
As I see it, there has been a fair bit of "intelligent. posts. Perhaps they are just not what you want to hear. Intelligent doesnt necessarily equate with what you agree with. I have solid reasons and have posted them elsewhere. And, I never played SWG.At the end of the Day SOE contributes a lot more to the Industry than a bunch of whining "SWG SOE Haters", you just need to grow up a little and move on. And acknowledge what SONY Online Entertainment contributes yes yes thats right.
________________________________________________________
Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
I will admit being surprised and glad to be so, that this thread is still be read.
Yes I can understand the frustration of the situation, since your title is taking flack from another company's problem and there is not much that can be done about it from your side.
But maybe there can be.
Since Flying Labs does control customer support, perhaps a sort of incentive program can be provided in helping to mitigate this bad press with SOE. Yes, I understand that providing such a program because of someone else's problem is not how this should be done and I doubt it will silence the dissatisfaction with SOE (in general)); but should help in ending the grief with your company; such as on these forums.
Both gamers and gamer developers are creative and imaginative, there are a number of ways that can be done in mitigating this problem. Consider it as one more business challenge.
Your company has provided a good role-model for keeping the customer informed and engaged. I think with just some bit of effort, your company can succeed in mitigating this negative SOE fallout and actually bring back some of those "Group 5" members.
And that is why...
Conservatives' pessimism is conducive to their happiness in three ways. First, they are rarely surprised -- they are right more often than not about the course of events. Second, when they are wrong they are happy to be so. Third, because pessimistic conservatives put not their faith in princes -- government -- they accept that happiness is a function of fending for oneself. They believe that happiness is an activity -- it is inseparable from the pursuit of happiness.
You got to do better than that.
Tell you what then, let us be constructive.
What would you do to help out with reducing this negative SOE fallout, rather than attacking or telling dissatisfied customers to knock it off. This has been going on for sometime now (over 2 years?) and such tactics have not worked. So what other methods can there be done?
If you like to play as a Hero, then here is your chance to be one here.
And that is why...
Conservatives' pessimism is conducive to their happiness in three ways. First, they are rarely surprised -- they are right more often than not about the course of events. Second, when they are wrong they are happy to be so. Third, because pessimistic conservatives put not their faith in princes -- government -- they accept that happiness is a function of fending for oneself. They believe that happiness is an activity -- it is inseparable from the pursuit of happiness.
Come on Sparky.. name ONE thing worth a damn.
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
I'm trying to think of what FLS could do to provide incentives for dissatisfied SOE customers that wouldn't somehow apply to the entire playing audience.
I guess there's expensive 'SWITCH' campaigns wherein they offer some reward for mailing in (useless) disks of another game. I kind of wonder if the reward would exceed the cost there. So many people have sworn that NOTHING will convince them to play a game SOE has touched-- they don't want reimbursement and wouldn't trust it were it offered.
It seems to me like the best thing they could do is... run a good game. And not let SOE eat it.
But I have only a single brain. Are there other options?
I will admit being surprised and glad to be so, that this thread is still be read.
Yes I can understand the frustration of the situation, since your title is taking flack from another company's problem and there is not much that can be done about it from your side.
But maybe there can be.
Since Flying Labs does control customer support, perhaps a sort of incentive program can be provided in helping to mitigate this bad press with SOE. Yes, I understand that providing such a program because of someone else's problem is not how this should be done and I doubt it will silence the dissatisfaction with SOE (in general)); but should help in ending the grief with your company; such as on these forums.
Both gamers and gamer developers are creative and imaginative, there are a number of ways that can be done in mitigating this problem. Consider it as one more business challenge.
Your company has provided a good role-model for keeping the customer informed and engaged. I think with just some bit of effort, your company can succeed in mitigating this negative SOE fallout and actually bring back some of those "Group 5" members.
So, in other words, it's another case of SOE "vets" wanting compensation to knock their crap off? You just proved most of the points in the negative about SOE "vets" right there. Congratulations.
Woodrodius, I commend you for being able to maintain a civil tongue regarding the accusations and unfounded flames by the "vets". Personally, I'd have told them and this site to shove it.
They don't need to provide any "incentives" to SOE haters. The people willing and wanting to play this game far outweigh the few anti-SOE flamebois.
I dont know which group I fall into on your list Rick , I want to play the game ...I can even admire your standpoint on this topic,but to trust in soe ? I don't know ,I admit they are fine while you are playing the game as far as billing is concerned ..it's when you wish to leave for whatever reasons that's when the trouble starts . I have been watching this game for quite a few years and now it's finally close to release I'm torn in two over it . I have no doubts its a good game and I'm not concerned that soe will get their finger into it , you and the Dev's have made it clear the game is yours rock solid . I'm not a soe hater and I dont have any particular need to boycott them ,just someone who is very carefull were I spend my hard earned cash .
Vociferor my apologies I admit I didn't read your post completely before I sent a reply
hehehe Neverknow you are a soehater 's hater , you flame them just as much as they flame soe ..is there really any difference at all between you and them ? both of you are entitled to an opinion ,and both of you get off subject to flame each other
PotBS is a good game no doubts there ,even the ones who are hanging back from it because of soe say that . Most complaints in the negitive seem to be based mainly on disappointment ..not their faith in the game .