Except FLS has said that SOE doesn't get their IP. Oh, I know, now you're going to say that FLS is just lying, cause that's the best argument you can come up with.
Seriously, all you SOE haters need to just go back to crying over your stupid pre-CU SWG and how great it was until big bad SOE changed it, right after Smedley killed your dog. Nobody cares. Aren't gonna play Pirates? Fine, gtfo and leave this forum for the rest of us who will.
Seriously, all you SOE haters need to just go back to crying over your stupid pre-CU SWG and how great it was until big bad SOE changed it, right after Smedley killed your dog. Nobody cares.
Tinfoil huh. My Eve guild was planning on moving to Potbs. Up until the SOE announcement there was great anticipation for the game. Our corp manager put a poll up last night after the SOE announcement, I just checked, the vote at this point is 67-3 to not move to potbs. Sad to as the game has a lot of simularities with Eve.
There is a lot of deserved negativity in the MMO fanbase when it comes to SOE. Flying Labs did not realize such. I hope their game succeeds, it looks promising. Just that most of us feel it is inevitable SOE will get it's hooks in this game and we don't want to watch another game get yanked out from under us.
There is no reason to believe he was fabricating this. It rings true. Those of you who think the anti SOE crowd is small are mistaken. I also won't be playing PotBS because of this announcement. I have had bad experiences with SOE games and won't risk any of my precious time in another game which SOE is involved with at any level.
My suggestion to Flying Labs, and every other company that pays this site to be able to advertise their game, only to have their forums filled with post after post of crap from SOE haters, would be to cancel any advertising with mmorpg.com, until they can learn to control the flaming/spamming of unwarranted negativity that these rebels without a clue spout.
No SOE game, whether owned by SOE or just affiliated with SOE, has a chance on this website. Look in the laughable "refuge" forums. Talking all day about how they're going to destroy SOE, constantly promoting private SWG servers (even though this is a flagrant disregard of this sites rules), jumping into any SOE related forum and spouting the same tired "Your game will die because of SOE" rhetoric, badmouthing anyone who dares to conflict with their "logic".
Only way these guys are going to be curtailed on this site, is if it becomes clear they are costing mmorpg.com money.
I wish you the best with your game, FLS, and look forward to playing it. Haven't gotten into the beta yet, but still hoping. But there really is no use arguing the merits of your game on a forum currently monopolized by people with nothing at all to do except "boycott" SOE affiliated games.
My suggestion to Flying Labs, and every other company that pays this site to be able to advertise their game, only to have their forums filled with post after post of crap from SOE haters, would be to cancel any advertising with mmorpg.com, until they can learn to control the flaming/spamming of unwarranted negativity that these rebels without a clue spout. No SOE game, whether owned by SOE or just affiliated with SOE, has a chance on this website. Look in the laughable "refuge" forums. Talking all day about how they're going to destroy SOE, constantly promoting private SWG servers (even though this is a flagrant disregard of this sites rules), jumping into any SOE related forum and spouting the same tired "Your game will die because of SOE" rhetoric, badmouthing anyone who dares to conflict with their "logic". Only way these guys are going to be curtailed on this site, is if it becomes clear they are costing mmorpg.com money. I wish you the best with your game, FLS, and look forward to playing it. Haven't gotten into the beta yet, but still hoping. But there really is no use arguing the merits of your game on a forum currently monopolized by people with nothing at all to do except "boycott" SOE affiliated games.
I agree.
POTBS username:yohorumrunner Guild:St George Squadron
Sooooo.....does anyone know how SOE makes their dime? Do they get all the subscriber money (including monthlies) and FLS gets the money it costs to purchase the game? Does FLS get a percentage of the monthlies? Any knowledge of the senario floating around?
Depends on the contract that was negotiated. But from what is know by other publishers is that the publisher will take ownership of the IP and provide about a 10% to 20% revenue to the developer; with the low teen's for first time developers. Royalties are rarely provided.
So in the sense of deciding which publisher to go with for retail distribution, SOE does provide the better offer. Unfortunately SOE has some problems associated to it (as shown around here).
If following "conventional" business models, the publisher (SOE) will obtain a percentage cut from the sales and subscription fees, as well as possible other in-game financial transactions. The percentage I'll take a guess (again a guess) at 35%, based from other publishers and game portals, potential revenue payoff, and maybe with some good negotiating skills involved. But then again, maybe SOE is similar to other retail publishers and has absorbed a significant amount of the percentage cut to off-set costs and still turn a profit.
I don't know the exact numbers, but I know that SOE doesn't get a big slice of the cake, as they didn't have to put up a large amount of money upfront, so SOE get less then 50% from the subs as they don't do much of the work, I mean all they do after you have brought the game is do the billing lol. Also why do you write in green, do you think you are special or something, because all I get from it is "look at me look at me!!!!"
POTBS username:yohorumrunner Guild:St George Squadron
If the people that refuse to play games affiliated with SOE on principle are so prolific (especially on a forum like this where there seems to always be at least a dedicated handful to fight their 'righteous' cause) why is it, then, that on the thread in these very same forums that is asking players to vote on whether they will still play PotBS they are outnumbered by more than 2 to 1 that will still play the game. Outnumbered by greater than 2 to 1, no less, on a forum where they love to beat down on the company and join in the chants of naysaying.
Just because SOE have ruined a couple of games you have liked in the past gives you no, at least, logical right to say that this will definately occur in this situation. The reason being can be illuminated by a very simple example philosophy students are taught when introduced to the discipline of logic. That is:
"Every Swan I have ever seen has been white.
Therefore all swans are white."
The conclusion does not logically follow from the premise that precedes it, (you cannot define absolute truth from observed experience because it is always limited) which is exactly the same as:
"Every game I have played where SOE has been affiliated with the developing company has turned into a disaster.
Therefore every game that SOE is involved in with a developing company will be a disaster."
Kinda sucked for that argument when explorers made it to the Antipedeans and discovered Black Swans.
I am so glad to see so many Eve griefers saying they wont move to this game...You all can continue to keep you low security gate camps, and blob warfare to Eve.
As for the contract with SOE maybe you dummies should read?
Tinfoil huh. My Eve guild was planning on moving to Potbs. Up until the SOE announcement there was great anticipation for the game. Our corp manager put a poll up last night after the SOE announcement, I just checked, the vote at this point is 67-3 to not move to potbs. Sad to as the game has a lot of simularities with Eve. There is a lot of deserved negativity in the MMO fanbase when it comes to SOE. Flying Labs did not realize such. I hope their game succeeds, it looks promising. Just that most of us feel it is inevitable SOE will get it's hooks in this game and we don't want to watch another game get yanked out from under us. There is no reason to believe he was fabricating this. It rings true. Those of you who think the anti SOE crowd is small are mistaken. I also won't be playing PotBS because of this announcement. I have had bad experiences with SOE games and won't risk any of my precious time in another game which SOE is involved with at any level.
You know the funny thing about your statement? EQ and EQII both still alive and kicking. Planetside...still going. About the only game I know of that SOE messed up was SWG and that is one game that should NEVER of been made in the first place. So here is a idea, dont play any soe game, watch one of their movies, or buy any of their products, to protest what they did to your line dancing MMO. But stop trying to get other people who really dont care what you think anyway to follow you misguided path....Just an idea.
Vociferor your logic class is flawed , since it is based on the fact that all swans are white were I come from I have seen both black and white swans freely swimming together ..so how dose your logic translate to that ?
SOE is a fact of life in the MMO world, just like Microsoft is in the general Computing world. Its something as consumers we have to deal with for smaller developers who want to make it. Based on what Rusty said they made a good deal, and kudos to FLS for holding out til the right deal came along, it just so happens SOE was offering it.
I have no problem with any publisher helping them out as long as the developer keeps the property such as in this case. The key is the developers using SOE or any publishing company, to their advantage and not vice versa, this is the right move for FLS, and hopefully when its all said and done, there wont be a 'sold' sign on the game.
Neverknow when you have the forums blocked for all the SOE *flamers* maybe you should include poeple like yourself in there as well and any other free thinking person ..hell why not get rid of the forums all together then nobody can say anything that might upset poeple's delicate little ideas of how the world should be
For those who say that FLS working with SOE are weak minded.
You know, I have a real problem with this statement.
A side from the once great EQ, SOE is known for MMOs that are of poor quality.
If FLS wants to be known for the same low quality garbage then the hell with them. may they both rot.
Only the weak minded buy into all the trash from PR repsthe rest of us think for ourselfs. PR reps exsist for one purpose,to sell his companies product to the public and they will mislead you when they have to.
The reason Sony bought out Vanguard is because it had 200k paying customersnot because they were doing anything great and noble.They did it for the MONEY!Those numbers quickly dropped and it will be interesting to see how long they keep Vanguard open if it coninues its decline.
Tell yourself what ever you have to when you're handing your money over to Sony just don't come here and tell me I'm weak minded for not jumping off that bridge with you.
trust me we SOE boycotters are enough...look at this :
vangaurd has maybe 20k subs at the msot. And I am sure the we will not play SOE game people are far greater than 20k.. thats a whole game community right there that if they did not play or did play would be the game with zero population or double the current population. thats huge. but ok bye go play your shitty Pirates game that is owned by SOE unofficially
The number of people who may not be fans of Sony? Sure, 20000 might not be a stretch. I'm one of them. I've played EQ2 after all; I understand the frustration.
The number who'll go so far as to not play any of their games? Far less than 20000. Far less. I'm not going to slap an exact number on it, but the vocal minority always makes themselves appear larger than they are. This really isn't different.
This number you're throwing out isn't going to be more than a few thousand. Drop in the bucket. And I'm talking in total too -- not all of this few thousand would've been interested in POTBS anyway.
Flying Lab's answer to this concern by the way comes from the fact that they read online forums, which by human nature is filled with more negative than positive things. Beta testers read forums -- the majority of people who play online though, hardly ever post to them.
well to you, you think the market of mmo players is in the 100k marks or near that. in reality its a huge business. millions upon millons of players have been screwed by SOE..negative publicity is now being brought upon POTBS because of this very poor decision. so in fact that will hurt the game.. as simple as i can put it
Wow, "millions upon millions of players have been srewed by SOE" you say? What games had over a million players? Were there that many complaints with the BBB? You're fanaticism is ridiculous at this point.
I won't bother line for line, my time is much too valuable and you are obviously just like the rest. Investing too much time in the response would obviously just feed your obsession with green text and it is something my willpower won't and can't allow. Beacuse I can seperate truth from folly in a single click of the post message button. So I'll make it short and sweet. I'm not a conservative, I'm a realist. Nor would I ignore the meat and reason in a post and go straight for the flame bait. Your point here, as far as I'm concerned, is not to debate the merits of any contractual agreements. Otherwise you would have. Rampant whining, complaining, and half truths have no place in logical assesements. Thats what I compare these cats to, no more, no less. If you want to lump yourself in the same cess pool, go right ahead. I'm glad you have made your position on immigration reform known to your representative, rather I would be. But you see, the majority of Americans don't. So I can hardly beleive that you would. Yea, thats that reverse psycology, looking in the mirror bit. Did I get it right? Hate, not complainers. Hate is a seperate emotion from dissatisfaction. It can be likened to an adrenaline rush, this unbiased hate. It should be checked at every opportunity.
Well, you made the challenge, called people out; I accepted and I see you have nothing but off topic statements and rants to make after being countered.
My points is sticking up for the so-called "haters" and that it would be in the best interests of both SOE and of its affiliates to take pro-active means to mitigate this perceived hate. SOE does have a significant number of dissatisfied customers; that is part of the baggage of this marriage with SOE.
So go ahead and retire from your wounds.
When you're ready to debate on the issues and of your so-called beliefs of "SOE Haters" again, let me know.
And I was looking forward to using my heavy bladed Schlaeger... shucks.
/salute
SOE should do something for the players --
Let's see, they bend over backwards for the NGE crowd now. They've released EQ2 which seems to be doing nicely. They rescued Vanguard. They're giving PotBS a shot at the big times.
Wow......leave the gaming scene for a couple months and come back to all hell breaking loose. Perhaps someone can help me catch up here. FLS is letting SOE do the bitch work with PotBS, I got that much. It's gonna be on SOEs station pass, I got that too. Sooooo.....does anyone know how SOE makes their dime? They obviously get all the Station Pass money from their subs. Do they get all the subscriber money (including monthlies) and FLS gets the money it costs to purchase the game? Does FLS get a percentage of the monthlies? Any knowledge of the senario floating around? Appolagise if this has been addressed. Like I said, I'm playing catch up.
That much of the deal hasn't been broken out but my suspicion is that they'll get a percentage of sales from the boxes and the station pass - and a slightly lower percentage from the rest of purchases and subscriptions (as their involvement would be less direct.) No way SOE is colelcting all of the Station Pass money. SOE is merely a service provider, with a low amount of overhead but it's still effective. They'll get a percentage cut of everything that won't be huge, but it will still line their pockets and that makes the deal worthwhile to them (besides the fact that if PotBS is successful, it's another feather in their cap.)
For those who say that FLS working with SOE are weak minded.
You know, I have a real problem with this statement.
A side from the once great EQ, SOE is known for MMOs that are of poor quality.
And what if they are associate with "MMOs that are or poor quality"? Now they're trying to reverse this trend by partnering up with FLS. After all, you wouldn't intentionally partner up with someon to fail....
If FLS wants to be known for the same low quality garbage then the hell with them. may they both rot.
Maybe they're confident enough to let the quality of the game speak for itself. Throw a free demo or an open beta and some positive reviews for their game and it's a good bet some will cross the line.
Only the weak minded buy into all the trash from PR reps the rest of us think for ourselfs. PR reps exsist for one purpose, to sell his companies product to the public and they will mislead you when they have to.
Yes, it's sooo much better to blindly hate and make snap decisions based on a lack of information or a plethora of misinformation rather than take a critical eye to the facts.
The reason Sony bought out Vanguard is because it had 200k paying customers not because they were doing anything great and noble. They did it for the MONEY! Those numbers quickly dropped and it will be interesting to see how long they keep Vanguard open if it coninues its decline.
Of course, it's the money -- they're a business and of course if it was a bad investment they would shutter it. Why are you so bitter about this concept? It's reality. You don't throw good money after bad.
Tell yourself what ever you have to when you're handing your money over to Sony just don't come here and tell me I'm weak minded for not jumping off that bridge with you.
I didn't call you weak-minded but again, rather than throws barbs at each side and make assumptions. Just wait and see what happens at release.
Edit: and for what's it's worth, your extra formatting is wasteful and distracting. Thankfully, reformatting is two clicks away.
LOL, well you can lead a horse to water but you can't make the stupid bastard drink.
You can defend SOE and FLS and try and insult me all you want.
The Facts are that I have have had dealings with Sony for a number of years and I know how they operate and it is never with the best intentions of its customer base in mind.
People keep mentioning one side being blind to this or that. *I* think that both "sides" are being blind here.
Those that are against SOE are blind to the possibility that just maybe the FLS folk's are telling the truth.
Those that are for FLS/PotBS are blind to the possibility that this could be another Vanguard.
In the end, all of this discussion is pretty worthless, imo. The game will make it on it's own merit when all is said and done and all of the discussion, yelling, screaming, fist pounding, feet stomping, red faced, whining, crying, bitching, moaning in the world won't change that.
I kinda like to think I'm on a completely different "side" than the line that has been drawn here. I'm waiting for a game that I have interest in playing to hit the shelves so I can check it out and decide if I want to play it. I don't care who is behind it. Life is too short to worry about who is behind my entertainment, just entertain me dammit! If I get hit by a truck tomorrow alot of good my giving a damn about some silly bs is going to do me.
LOL, well you can lead a horse to water but you can't make the stupid bastard drink. You can defend SOE and FLS and try and insult me all you want. The Facts are that I have have had dealings with Sony for a number of years and I know how they operate and it is never with the best intentions of its customer base in mind. You may now continue blindly on your way.
It's unfortunate that you've had bad dealings with them and you're right to be wary. No one disagrees with that. The issue is when people who once thought highly of FLS turn around on a dime and won't even give it a fair chance, proclaiming that they're going to do everything possible to ruin it for SOE (and over the course potentially for FLS and other players), that's the blindness that should be discouraged. Assuming the game actually interested you, wait for reviews and/or try the open beta. Maybe they'll surprise you. The SOE platform publishing deal is a good thing for indies, much like Fox Searchlight films is good for producing indie flicks while the main company focuses on blockbusters.
It's unfortunate what happened to VG but they did it to themselves and even though it's one case, should be considered the exception rather than the rule because the purpose of the deal is for the developer to maintain responsibility, get lots of visibility while SOE gets some free cash by leveraging their economies of scale without the headache of development.
This thread is awesome! People keep mentioning one side being blind to this or that. *I* think that both "sides" are being blind here. Those that are against SOE are blind to the possibility that just maybe the FLS folk's are telling the truth. Those that are for FLS/PotBS are blind to the possibility that this could be another Vanguard. In the end, all of this discussion is pretty worthless, imo. The game will make it on it's own merit when all is said and done and all of the discussion, yelling, screaming, fist pounding, feet stomping, red faced, whining, crying, bitching, moaning in the world won't change that. I kinda like to think I'm on a completely different "side" than the line that has been drawn here. I'm waiting for a game that I have interest in playing to hit the shelves so I can check it out and decide if I want to play it. I don't care who is behind it. Life is too short to worry about who is behind my entertainment, just entertain me dammit! If I get hit by a truck tomorrow alot of good my giving a damn about some silly bs is going to do me. /shrug Now then, please continue!
Well the thing is, is that there are other companies offering some really good games why give your money to a company that doesn't give a crap about you or your rights. especially when they are known for low quality and really bad customer support.
LOL, well you can lead a horse to water but you can't make the stupid bastard drink. You can defend SOE and FLS and try and insult me all you want. The Facts are that I have have had dealings with Sony for a number of years and I know how they operate and it is never with the best intentions of its customer base in mind. You may now continue blindly on your way.
Why did you stick with them for 'a number of years' if they are so abhorent?
Sorry, but you just sound like another irrational SOE hater on a crusade to post as much hate as you can about them because they did not do exactly what you wanted or took longer than you would like to resolve a petition or got banned for exploiting.
I have played so many different MMOs over the last decade that I have lost count, including many SOE offerings, and I find very little difference between the levels of service from each MMO. In fact my worst experience was with Blizzard whom most people claim are wonderful, had a petition take over 3 days before the first response (almost a week before it was resolved) and at one point the server crashed almost every hour during peak times for several days before they fixed it.
If SOE was half as bad as you SOE haters make out they would have gone out of business years ago.
Originally posted by Dento Well the thing is, is that there are other companies offering some really good games why give your money to a company that doesn't give a crap about you or your rights. especially when they are known for low quality and really bad customer support.
Easy. I have no real interest in AoC. I have no interest in more Orcs and Elves. I DO have interest in a Pirate/1700s based MMO. That's enough for me. And I might not have to give my money to anyone if we get an Open Beta and I hate the game based on that like I did Vanguard....
This thread is awesome! People keep mentioning one side being blind to this or that. *I* think that both "sides" are being blind here. Those that are against SOE are blind to the possibility that just maybe the FLS folk's are telling the truth. Those that are for FLS/PotBS are blind to the possibility that this could be another Vanguard. In the end, all of this discussion is pretty worthless, imo. The game will make it on it's own merit when all is said and done and all of the discussion, yelling, screaming, fist pounding, feet stomping, red faced, whining, crying, bitching, moaning in the world won't change that. I kinda like to think I'm on a completely different "side" than the line that has been drawn here. I'm waiting for a game that I have interest in playing to hit the shelves so I can check it out and decide if I want to play it. I don't care who is behind it. Life is too short to worry about who is behind my entertainment, just entertain me dammit! If I get hit by a truck tomorrow alot of good my giving a damn about some silly bs is going to do me. /shrug Now then, please continue!
Well the thing is, is that there are other companies offering some really good games why give your money to a company that doesn't give a crap about you or your rights. especially when they are known for low quality and really bad customer support.
No one's agruing that you shouldn't vote with your wallet nor disagreeing that there aren't other good games being produced. But keep in mind also that FLS is offering this game, not SOE so perhaps they should be given a fair shot to win your money too? It sounds like they were in the running before the deal was signed and nothing has changed since then.
Again, it's unfortunate you've had bad experiences with SOE -- perhaps it is best if you did boycott it since the infrastructure of the company is what irks you the most rather than the game. That seems like cutting off your nose to spite your face though (By the by, how much customer service interaction do you people expect to have -- over the course of 8 years I've never dealt with them at Mythic, SOE, Blizzard and NCsoft).
Originally posted by Dento Well the thing is, is that there are other companies offering some really good games why give your money to a company that doesn't give a crap about you or your rights. especially when they are known for low quality and really bad customer support.
I have found SOE customer support to be excellent on EQ2 lately, some of the best I have seen in a long time. In fact in the last three petitions the longest response time was around 30 minutes. As for low quality, thats certainly not true either, sure there have been the odd bugs in EQ2 lately (all fairly minor), but they have been pretty quick to fix most of them and they do actually seem to be listening to the playerbase more these days. TBH, the only company I have seen do a better job of it in the last couple of years is CCP.
Comments
Except FLS has said that SOE doesn't get their IP. Oh, I know, now you're going to say that FLS is just lying, cause that's the best argument you can come up with.
Seriously, all you SOE haters need to just go back to crying over your stupid pre-CU SWG and how great it was until big bad SOE changed it, right after Smedley killed your dog. Nobody cares. Aren't gonna play Pirates? Fine, gtfo and leave this forum for the rest of us who will.
You seem to care.
Ozmodan posted this in another thread:
Tinfoil huh. My Eve guild was planning on moving to Potbs. Up until the SOE announcement there was great anticipation for the game. Our corp manager put a poll up last night after the SOE announcement, I just checked, the vote at this point is 67-3 to not move to potbs. Sad to as the game has a lot of simularities with Eve.
There is a lot of deserved negativity in the MMO fanbase when it comes to SOE. Flying Labs did not realize such. I hope their game succeeds, it looks promising. Just that most of us feel it is inevitable SOE will get it's hooks in this game and we don't want to watch another game get yanked out from under us.
There is no reason to believe he was fabricating this. It rings true. Those of you who think the anti SOE crowd is small are mistaken. I also won't be playing PotBS because of this announcement. I have had bad experiences with SOE games and won't risk any of my precious time in another game which SOE is involved with at any level.
My suggestion to Flying Labs, and every other company that pays this site to be able to advertise their game, only to have their forums filled with post after post of crap from SOE haters, would be to cancel any advertising with mmorpg.com, until they can learn to control the flaming/spamming of unwarranted negativity that these rebels without a clue spout.
No SOE game, whether owned by SOE or just affiliated with SOE, has a chance on this website. Look in the laughable "refuge" forums. Talking all day about how they're going to destroy SOE, constantly promoting private SWG servers (even though this is a flagrant disregard of this sites rules), jumping into any SOE related forum and spouting the same tired "Your game will die because of SOE" rhetoric, badmouthing anyone who dares to conflict with their "logic".
Only way these guys are going to be curtailed on this site, is if it becomes clear they are costing mmorpg.com money.
I wish you the best with your game, FLS, and look forward to playing it. Haven't gotten into the beta yet, but still hoping. But there really is no use arguing the merits of your game on a forum currently monopolized by people with nothing at all to do except "boycott" SOE affiliated games.
I agree.
POTBS username:yohorumrunner
Guild:St George Squadron
Depends on the contract that was negotiated. But from what is know by other publishers is that the publisher will take ownership of the IP and provide about a 10% to 20% revenue to the developer; with the low teen's for first time developers. Royalties are rarely provided.
So in the sense of deciding which publisher to go with for retail distribution, SOE does provide the better offer. Unfortunately SOE has some problems associated to it (as shown around here).
If following "conventional" business models, the publisher (SOE) will obtain a percentage cut from the sales and subscription fees, as well as possible other in-game financial transactions. The percentage I'll take a guess (again a guess) at 35%, based from other publishers and game portals, potential revenue payoff, and maybe with some good negotiating skills involved. But then again, maybe SOE is similar to other retail publishers and has absorbed a significant amount of the percentage cut to off-set costs and still turn a profit.
I don't know the exact numbers, but I know that SOE doesn't get a big slice of the cake, as they didn't have to put up a large amount of money upfront, so SOE get less then 50% from the subs as they don't do much of the work, I mean all they do after you have brought the game is do the billing lol. Also why do you write in green, do you think you are special or something, because all I get from it is "look at me look at me!!!!"
POTBS username:yohorumrunner
Guild:St George Squadron
Just paused for a thought (what a rarity
):
If the people that refuse to play games affiliated with SOE on principle are so prolific (especially on a forum like this where there seems to always be at least a dedicated handful to fight their 'righteous' cause) why is it, then, that on the thread in these very same forums that is asking players to vote on whether they will still play PotBS they are outnumbered by more than 2 to 1 that will still play the game. Outnumbered by greater than 2 to 1, no less, on a forum where they love to beat down on the company and join in the chants of naysaying.
Just because SOE have ruined a couple of games you have liked in the past gives you no, at least, logical right to say that this will definately occur in this situation. The reason being can be illuminated by a very simple example philosophy students are taught when introduced to the discipline of logic. That is:
"Every Swan I have ever seen has been white.
Therefore all swans are white."
The conclusion does not logically follow from the premise that precedes it, (you cannot define absolute truth from observed experience because it is always limited) which is exactly the same as:
"Every game I have played where SOE has been affiliated with the developing company has turned into a disaster.
Therefore every game that SOE is involved in with a developing company will be a disaster."
Kinda sucked for that argument when explorers made it to the Antipedeans and discovered Black Swans.
I am so glad to see so many Eve griefers saying they wont move to this game...You all can continue to keep you low security gate camps, and blob warfare to Eve.
As for the contract with SOE maybe you dummies should read?
You know the funny thing about your statement? EQ and EQII both still alive and kicking. Planetside...still going. About the only game I know of that SOE messed up was SWG and that is one game that should NEVER of been made in the first place. So here is a idea, dont play any soe game, watch one of their movies, or buy any of their products, to protest what they did to your line dancing MMO. But stop trying to get other people who really dont care what you think anyway to follow you misguided path....Just an idea.
Vociferor your logic class is flawed , since it is based on the fact that all swans are white
were I come from I have seen both black and white swans freely swimming together ..so how dose your logic translate to that ?
SOE is a fact of life in the MMO world, just like Microsoft is in the general Computing world. Its something as consumers we have to deal with for smaller developers who want to make it. Based on what Rusty said they made a good deal, and kudos to FLS for holding out til the right deal came along, it just so happens SOE was offering it.
I have no problem with any publisher helping them out as long as the developer keeps the property such as in this case. The key is the developers using SOE or any publishing company, to their advantage and not vice versa, this is the right move for FLS, and hopefully when its all said and done, there wont be a 'sold' sign on the game.
my 2 cents
Neverknow when you have the forums blocked for all the SOE *flamers* maybe you should include poeple like yourself in there as well and any other free thinking person ..hell why not get rid of the forums all together then nobody can say anything that might upset poeple's delicate little ideas of how the world should be
A side from the once great EQ, SOE is known for MMOs that are of poor quality.
If FLS wants to be known for the same low quality garbage then the hell with them. may they both rot.
Only the weak minded buy into all the trash from PR reps the rest of us think for ourselfs. PR reps exsist for one purpose, to sell his companies product to the public and they will mislead you when they have to.
The reason Sony bought out Vanguard is because it had 200k paying customers not because they were doing anything great and noble. They did it for the MONEY! Those numbers quickly dropped and it will be interesting to see how long they keep Vanguard open if it coninues its decline.
Tell yourself what ever you have to when you're handing your money over to Sony just don't come here and tell me I'm weak minded for not jumping off that bridge with you.
The number of people who may not be fans of Sony? Sure, 20000 might not be a stretch. I'm one of them. I've played EQ2 after all; I understand the frustration.
The number who'll go so far as to not play any of their games? Far less than 20000. Far less. I'm not going to slap an exact number on it, but the vocal minority always makes themselves appear larger than they are. This really isn't different.
This number you're throwing out isn't going to be more than a few thousand. Drop in the bucket. And I'm talking in total too -- not all of this few thousand would've been interested in POTBS anyway.
Flying Lab's answer to this concern by the way comes from the fact that they read online forums, which by human nature is filled with more negative than positive things. Beta testers read forums -- the majority of people who play online though, hardly ever post to them.
well to you, you think the market of mmo players is in the 100k marks or near that. in reality its a huge business. millions upon millons of players have been screwed by SOE..negative publicity is now being brought upon POTBS because of this very poor decision. so in fact that will hurt the game.. as simple as i can put it
Wow, "millions upon millions of players have been srewed by SOE" you say? What games had over a million players? Were there that many complaints with the BBB? You're fanaticism is ridiculous at this point.
Oh, and is your post count going down?
My points is sticking up for the so-called "haters" and that it would be in the best interests of both SOE and of its affiliates to take pro-active means to mitigate this perceived hate. SOE does have a significant number of dissatisfied customers; that is part of the baggage of this marriage with SOE.
So go ahead and retire from your wounds.
When you're ready to debate on the issues and of your so-called beliefs of "SOE Haters" again, let me know.
And I was looking forward to using my heavy bladed Schlaeger... shucks.
/salute
SOE should do something for the players --
Let's see, they bend over backwards for the NGE crowd now. They've released EQ2 which seems to be doing nicely. They rescued Vanguard. They're giving PotBS a shot at the big times.
Yeah, SOE's done nothing for the players.
That much of the deal hasn't been broken out but my suspicion is that they'll get a percentage of sales from the boxes and the station pass - and a slightly lower percentage from the rest of purchases and subscriptions (as their involvement would be less direct.) No way SOE is colelcting all of the Station Pass money. SOE is merely a service provider, with a low amount of overhead but it's still effective. They'll get a percentage cut of everything that won't be huge, but it will still line their pockets and that makes the deal worthwhile to them (besides the fact that if PotBS is successful, it's another feather in their cap.)
You know, I have a real problem with this statement.A side from the once great EQ, SOE is known for MMOs that are of poor quality.
And what if they are associate with "MMOs that are or poor quality"? Now they're trying to reverse this trend by partnering up with FLS. After all, you wouldn't intentionally partner up with someon to fail....
If FLS wants to be known for the same low quality garbage then the hell with them. may they both rot.
Maybe they're confident enough to let the quality of the game speak for itself. Throw a free demo or an open beta and some positive reviews for their game and it's a good bet some will cross the line.
Only the weak minded buy into all the trash from PR reps the rest of us think for ourselfs. PR reps exsist for one purpose, to sell his companies product to the public and they will mislead you when they have to.
Yes, it's sooo much better to blindly hate and make snap decisions based on a lack of information or a plethora of misinformation rather than take a critical eye to the facts.
The reason Sony bought out Vanguard is because it had 200k paying customers not because they were doing anything great and noble. They did it for the MONEY! Those numbers quickly dropped and it will be interesting to see how long they keep Vanguard open if it coninues its decline.
Of course, it's the money -- they're a business and of course if it was a bad investment they would shutter it. Why are you so bitter about this concept? It's reality. You don't throw good money after bad.
Tell yourself what ever you have to when you're handing your money over to Sony just don't come here and tell me I'm weak minded for not jumping off that bridge with you.
I didn't call you weak-minded but again, rather than throws barbs at each side and make assumptions. Just wait and see what happens at release.
Edit: and for what's it's worth, your extra formatting is wasteful and distracting. Thankfully, reformatting is two clicks away.
LOL, well you can lead a horse to water but you can't make the stupid bastard drink.
You can defend SOE and FLS and try and insult me all you want.
The Facts are that I have have had dealings with Sony for a number of years and I know how they operate and it is never with the best intentions of its customer base in mind.
You may now continue blindly on your way.
This thread is awesome!
People keep mentioning one side being blind to this or that. *I* think that both "sides" are being blind here.
Those that are against SOE are blind to the possibility that just maybe the FLS folk's are telling the truth.
Those that are for FLS/PotBS are blind to the possibility that this could be another Vanguard.
In the end, all of this discussion is pretty worthless, imo. The game will make it on it's own merit when all is said and done and all of the discussion, yelling, screaming, fist pounding, feet stomping, red faced, whining, crying, bitching, moaning in the world won't change that.
I kinda like to think I'm on a completely different "side" than the line that has been drawn here. I'm waiting for a game that I have interest in playing to hit the shelves so I can check it out and decide if I want to play it. I don't care who is behind it. Life is too short to worry about who is behind my entertainment, just entertain me dammit! If I get hit by a truck tomorrow alot of good my giving a damn about some silly bs is going to do me.
/shrug
Now then, please continue!
It's unfortunate that you've had bad dealings with them and you're right to be wary. No one disagrees with that. The issue is when people who once thought highly of FLS turn around on a dime and won't even give it a fair chance, proclaiming that they're going to do everything possible to ruin it for SOE (and over the course potentially for FLS and other players), that's the blindness that should be discouraged. Assuming the game actually interested you, wait for reviews and/or try the open beta. Maybe they'll surprise you. The SOE platform publishing deal is a good thing for indies, much like Fox Searchlight films is good for producing indie flicks while the main company focuses on blockbusters.It's unfortunate what happened to VG but they did it to themselves and even though it's one case, should be considered the exception rather than the rule because the purpose of the deal is for the developer to maintain responsibility, get lots of visibility while SOE gets some free cash by leveraging their economies of scale without the headache of development.
*shrug*
Well the thing is, is that there are other companies offering some really good games why give your money to a company that doesn't give a crap about you or your rights. especially when they are known for low quality and really bad customer support.
Why did you stick with them for 'a number of years' if they are so abhorent?
Sorry, but you just sound like another irrational SOE hater on a crusade to post as much hate as you can about them because they did not do exactly what you wanted or took longer than you would like to resolve a petition or got banned for exploiting.
I have played so many different MMOs over the last decade that I have lost count, including many SOE offerings, and I find very little difference between the levels of service from each MMO. In fact my worst experience was with Blizzard whom most people claim are wonderful, had a petition take over 3 days before the first response (almost a week before it was resolved) and at one point the server crashed almost every hour during peak times for several days before they fixed it.
If SOE was half as bad as you SOE haters make out they would have gone out of business years ago.
/shrug
Well the thing is, is that there are other companies offering some really good games why give your money to a company that doesn't give a crap about you or your rights. especially when they are known for low quality and really bad customer support.
No one's agruing that you shouldn't vote with your wallet nor disagreeing that there aren't other good games being produced. But keep in mind also that FLS is offering this game, not SOE so perhaps they should be given a fair shot to win your money too? It sounds like they were in the running before the deal was signed and nothing has changed since then.
Again, it's unfortunate you've had bad experiences with SOE -- perhaps it is best if you did boycott it since the infrastructure of the company is what irks you the most rather than the game. That seems like cutting off your nose to spite your face though (By the by, how much customer service interaction do you people expect to have -- over the course of 8 years I've never dealt with them at Mythic, SOE, Blizzard and NCsoft).
I have found SOE customer support to be excellent on EQ2 lately, some of the best I have seen in a long time. In fact in the last three petitions the longest response time was around 30 minutes. As for low quality, thats certainly not true either, sure there have been the odd bugs in EQ2 lately (all fairly minor), but they have been pretty quick to fix most of them and they do actually seem to be listening to the playerbase more these days. TBH, the only company I have seen do a better job of it in the last couple of years is CCP.