Let them have their joy, they like to imagine the game is dead
I think you missed his point there, Mr. "True Vet".
SOE has never given exact numbers, not since they were bragging about 300K active subs in 2003. Since then, all we've gotten are comments about how the population is doing relative to the time immediately before. Thing like "numbers are down after the launch of the CU" or "numbers are down since the launch of the NGE".
The entire concept of the NGE is an admitted failure from Smedley himself. So at best, what GreyPawn is telling us is that subs are up from what's essentially rock bottom for SOE. This is like George W. Bush looking at his approval rating in the low 30% range and being excited because it's up out of the high 20% range.
If they weren't ashamed of their sub numbers, they'd publish them, not just speak about them in vague terms.
Since no one gathers for shuttles, heads back to town for terminals (cos of huge amounts of quests), folks not on planet (space game) etc, the perception is the game is empty but my trader alt knows full well that there is a huge market out there.
I have sold so many missle launchers, that it would be silly to say that people brought more than a couple, so I have to conclude its not as empty as it feels.
Now playing: VG (after a long break from MMORPGS) Played for more than a month: Darkfall online, Vanguard SOH, Everquest, Horizons, WoW, SWG, Everquest II, Eve
Let them have their joy, they like to imagine the game is dead
I think you missed his point there, Mr. "True Vet".
SOE has never given exact numbers, not since they were bragging about 300K active subs in 2003. Since then, all we've gotten are comments about how the population is doing relative to the time immediately before. Thing like "numbers are down after the launch of the CU" or "numbers are down since the launch of the NGE".
The entire concept of the NGE is an admitted failure from Smedley himself. So at best, what GreyPawn is telling us is that subs are up from what's essentially rock bottom for SOE. This is like George W. Bush looking at his approval rating in the low 30% range and being excited because it's up out of the high 20% range.
If they weren't ashamed of their sub numbers, they'd publish them, not just speak about them in vague terms.
Not atall, it's standard business practice not to give specifics, you don't see two major oil companies comparing how many barrels of oil they sell a year. SOE knows what they're doing.
Let them have their joy, they like to imagine the game is dead
I think you missed his point there, Mr. "True Vet".
SOE has never given exact numbers, not since they were bragging about 300K active subs in 2003. Since then, all we've gotten are comments about how the population is doing relative to the time immediately before. Thing like "numbers are down after the launch of the CU" or "numbers are down since the launch of the NGE".
The entire concept of the NGE is an admitted failure from Smedley himself. So at best, what GreyPawn is telling us is that subs are up from what's essentially rock bottom for SOE. This is like George W. Bush looking at his approval rating in the low 30% range and being excited because it's up out of the high 20% range.
If they weren't ashamed of their sub numbers, they'd publish them, not just speak about them in vague terms.
The NGE really doesn't exist anymore. The only remaining parts is the optional manual targeting and the condensed professions. Even the professions thing isn't entirely true to what the NGE was either every since expertise came out. So yes, we all know the NGE wasn't a roaring succes and the majority of what it changed has already been replaced and in some cases, reverted.
Furthermore, it's assumption that the subs hit rock bottom. Yes, people left the game but how many actually cancelled their subs? The latest house purge and the sparse number of abandoned houses prooves that overall, the game has seen alot of active subs, at least up to a year ago.
Let them have their joy, they like to imagine the game is dead
I think you missed his point there, Mr. "True Vet".
SOE has never given exact numbers, not since they were bragging about 300K active subs in 2003. Since then, all we've gotten are comments about how the population is doing relative to the time immediately before. Thing like "numbers are down after the launch of the CU" or "numbers are down since the launch of the NGE".
The entire concept of the NGE is an admitted failure from Smedley himself. So at best, what GreyPawn is telling us is that subs are up from what's essentially rock bottom for SOE. This is like George W. Bush looking at his approval rating in the low 30% range and being excited because it's up out of the high 20% range.
If they weren't ashamed of their sub numbers, they'd publish them, not just speak about them in vague terms.
The NGE really doesn't exist anymore. The only remaining parts is the optional manual targeting and the condensed professions. Even the professions thing isn't entirely true to what the NGE was either every since expertise came out. So yes, we all know the NGE wasn't a roaring succes and the majority of what it changed has already been replaced and in some cases, reverted.
Furthermore, it's assumption that the subs hit rock bottom. Yes, people left the game but how many actually cancelled their subs? The latest house purge and the sparse number of abandoned houses prooves that overall, the game has seen alot of active subs, at least up to a year ago.
I was actually quite surprised at the number of houses that were demolished, i honestly thought it would be more. (With all the rumors etc)
A few little notes on this particular topic that I've been dying to share with you-
When I learned the truth of how well Star Wars Galaxies was doing, I was stunned. I can't give you numbers, but the charts I had seen before (and likely you've seen) were dead wrong. When you learned the truth??? So... they haven't told you anything for like 1½ year?? You can't give us numbers? Well, then your statement is irrelevant. SWG is currently very healthy, and is getting better. Another general statement without support of facts in any way. Making observations/statements without a minimum of empirical data to support your claim will at most get a chuckle out of me. The playerbase is growing, with both new players and returning veterans. Perhaps, but what's the growthratio? How long are you able to rettain new players and returning vets? No figures/stats = no credibility, sorry. There is a lot on the horizon for this game. Lol, you guys been saying that for ages. There's lying and then there's lying with style and flamboyancy. The least you can do is to be abit more imaginative when you lie. Well, if there's such a vast body of conceptual ideas on the table then share it with us. I'm not asking you to go into detail about it, just the basic thoughts - oh, and don't worry about others stealing your glorious ideas, haha, they wouldn't touch it.
A few little notes on this particular topic that I've been dying to share with you-
When I learned the truth of how well Star Wars Galaxies was doing, I was stunned. I can't give you numbers, but the charts I had seen before (and likely you've seen) were dead wrong. When you learned the truth??? So... they haven't told you anything for like 1½ year?? You can't give us numbers? Well, then your statement is irrelevant. SWG is currently very healthy, and is getting better. Another general statement without support of facts in any way. Making observations/statements without a minimum of empirical data to support your claim will at most get a chuckle out of me. The playerbase is growing, with both new players and returning veterans. Perhaps, but what's the growthratio? How long are you able to rettain new players and returning vets? No figures/stats = no credibility, sorry. There is a lot on the horizon for this game. Lol, you guys been saying that for ages. There's lying and then there's lying with style and flamboyancy. The least you can do is to be abit more imaginative when you lie. Well, if there's such a vast body of conceptual ideas on the table then share it with us. I'm not asking you to go into detail about it, just the basic thoughts - oh, and don't worry about others stealing your glorious ideas, haha, they wouldn't touch it.
A few little notes on this particular topic that I've been dying to share with you-
When I learned the truth of how well Star Wars Galaxies was doing, I was stunned. I can't give you numbers, but the charts I had seen before (and likely you've seen) were dead wrong. When you learned the truth??? So... they haven't told you anything for like 1½ year?? You can't give us numbers? Well, then your statement is irrelevant.Joined 26th june, hes been there one week. He can't give us numbers, standard business practice, this doesn't make his statement irrelevant, sorry.
SWG is currently very healthy, and is getting better. Another general statement without support of facts in any way. Making observations/statements without a minimum of empirical data to support your claim will at most get a chuckle out of me. He works for SOE, he doesn't need facts, choose to believe or not, he really doesn't give a ****. We've shown screenshot after screenshot of packed battles, massive wars, theres your proof.
The playerbase is growing, with both new players and returning veterans. Perhaps, but what's the growthratio? How long are you able to rettain new players and returning vets? No figures/stats = no credibility, sorry.
So far theres been a steady increase in the amount of players seen in-game, lots of my friends have been returning and i've been helping loads of new people all over SWG There is a lot on the horizon for this game. Lol, you guys been saying that for ages.Just like you guys have been saying a rollback is coming There's lying and then there's lying with style and flamboyancy. The least you can do is to be abit more imaginative when you lie. Well, if there's such a vast body of conceptual ideas on the table then share it with us.Your a minute spec that doesn't even play SW:G, why would he show you? I'm not asking you to go into detail about it, just the basic thoughts - oh, and don't worry about others stealing your glorious ideas, haha, they wouldn't touch it. They wouldn't be allowed to touch it, as using a star-wars IP would be illegal without contract with LA.
A few little notes on this particular topic that I've been dying to share with you-
When I learned the truth of how well Star Wars Galaxies was doing, I was stunned. I can't give you numbers, but the charts I had seen before (and likely you've seen) were dead wrong. When you learned the truth??? So... they haven't told you anything for like 1½ year?? You can't give us numbers? Well, then your statement is irrelevant.Joined 26th june, hes been there one week. He can't give us numbers, standard business practice, this doesn't make his statement irrelevant, sorry. Yes that's the official date, but that doesn't mean he wasn't lurking behind the shadows. In any case most SOE employees know the score in terms of how SWG is doing- and if it's standard business practice then why is WoW and EVE spewing out their sub numbers??
SWG is currently very healthy, and is getting better. Another general statement without support of facts in any way. Making observations/statements without a minimum of empirical data to support your claim will at most get a chuckle out of me. He works for SOE, he doesn't need facts, choose to believe or not, he really doesn't give a ****. We've shown screenshot after screenshot of packed battles, massive wars, theres your proof. "He works for SOE, he doesn't need facts...", now THAT is priceless - you don't know how right you are, lol.
The playerbase is growing, with both new players and returning veterans. Perhaps, but what's the growthratio? How long are you able to rettain new players and returning vets? No figures/stats = no credibility, sorry.
So far theres been a steady increase in the amount of players seen in-game, lots of my friends have been returning and i've been helping loads of new people all over SWGYeah I dig it, I hear gardening is the big thing with you sissies There is a lot on the horizon for this game. Lol, you guys been saying that for ages.Just like you guys have been saying a rollback is coming There's lying and then there's lying with style and flamboyancy. The least you can do is to be abit more imaginative when you lie. Well, if there's such a vast body of conceptual ideas on the table then share it with us.Your a minute spec that doesn't even play SW:G, why would he show you? I'm not asking you to go into detail about it, just the basic thoughts - oh, and don't worry about others stealing your glorious ideas, haha, they wouldn't touch it. They wouldn't be allowed to touch it, as using a star-wars IP would be illegal without contract with LA. My dear bewildered poster, I wasn't talking about the IP. I was talking about the ideas. If that was illegal WoW wouldn't exist right now since they've taken so much from all kinds of games. No, let me educate you - can you say "game mechanics" ??
Tsk tsk, you really shouldn't start talking about stuff you are not well versed in. I already destroyed your other argument over in the other forum. Trouble keeping up?
A few little notes on this particular topic that I've been dying to share with you-
When I learned the truth of how well Star Wars Galaxies was doing, I was stunned. I can't give you numbers, but the charts I had seen before (and likely you've seen) were dead wrong. SWG is currently very healthy, and is getting better. The playerbase is growing, with both new players and returning veterans. There is a lot on the horizon for this game.
that topic was started only yesterday and already 5 pages lon'.. how many of those folks do ya think would still be playin' NGE if there was a classic server?
im thinkin its not doing so well because me and my guild are not play it at all..........and yes they took 2 to 3 yrs of game play and threw it away for for nottin !!!! for new kiddie subs,and now i get 2 to 3 yrsto beat them up and hold their feet to the FIRE.. free market is a wonderful thing....
bottom line is its dated old poor worn-out dog of a game
soo has anyone noticed that tabula rasa UI looks like old swg ...im just sick of dwarfs,worlocks and what not..
Trade in material assumptions for spiritual facts and make permanent progress.
i am curious as to why you would want to see the sub numbers, because lets be honest here if they post numbers that are even a lil bit favorable towards SWG you all will scream they are lieing...so imo its a waste of time for them to post sub numbers since you don't want to believe them no matter what.
"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand." - Lewis Thomas
Let them have their joy, they like to imagine the game is dead
I think you missed his point there, Mr. "True Vet".
SOE has never given exact numbers, not since they were bragging about 300K active subs in 2003. Since then, all we've gotten are comments about how the population is doing relative to the time immediately before. Thing like "numbers are down after the launch of the CU" or "numbers are down since the launch of the NGE".
The entire concept of the NGE is an admitted failure from Smedley himself. So at best, what GreyPawn is telling us is that subs are up from what's essentially rock bottom for SOE. This is like George W. Bush looking at his approval rating in the low 30% range and being excited because it's up out of the high 20% range.
If they weren't ashamed of their sub numbers, they'd publish them, not just speak about them in vague terms.
The NGE really doesn't exist anymore. The only remaining parts is the optional manual targeting and the condensed professions. Even the professions thing isn't entirely true to what the NGE was either every since expertise came out. So yes, we all know the NGE wasn't a roaring succes and the majority of what it changed has already been replaced and in some cases, reverted.
See Ob i disagree with the only parts of the NGE left is the targetting and professions. The Goofy on crack combat is still in. The Loot is better than crafted items is still in. The Jedi as a starter profession still in. Honest if they would at least redo the best parts of all 3 systems and spruce up the GFX they may actually suceed. The first parts you listed are the main issues 99% of us have issues with. The combat and lack of the profession system.
Furthermore, it's assumption that the subs hit rock bottom. Yes, people left the game but how many actually cancelled their subs? The latest house purge and the sparse number of abandoned houses prooves that overall, the game has seen alot of active subs, at least up to a year ago. How many paid in advance for a year and quit? Um Houses being left doesnt mean they are active currently. Depends on inactivity of those accounts if their houses went abandon. But population issues i could care less about. Depends on which side you ask on this issue. Galaxies may have improved from what it was nov 05 but its not and improvement over the last two systems. Why do you think they keep rolling back old parts from precu? It aint cause the games healthy, if it was they wouldnt need to add or change a thing. Im not knocking those of you that choose to play and happy doing it. Just my point of view of the current game. Wonder why everyone gets excited when they rollback a part of the old game? Heck it was allready in the game once and in better form. Beast master or what ever was a good start ,but still they had a better system and profession allready.
I'm a returning vet from the pre-CU days. For those that don't know, the NGE is the second cataclysm that's happened to this game. The CU was the first. I dropped right after the CU came in and stunk up the joint.
I returned on trial and the game is fun again. I reactivated both my accounts already. The current game is the closest it's ever been to the original and it feels right again... What else can I say? My CU plaque is in my bunker proudly hanging on the wall ROFL. I just hope Sony comes to their senses and stops rewriting the whole combat system every other year. It just pisses people off. Leave well enough alone and stop trying to beat WoW. It can't be done. In terms of food, WoW is the McDonalds of mmorpgs. You aren't beating McD's... -Viz
The problem is, they are most likely to change the game AGAIN because its all a numbers game to them.
A) By vets returning and there being "Just enough" people playing to keep the game alive, they know now that they can get away with
drastic changes in the games dynamics and not have to worry because people keep comming back to support them.
No matter what, they want more people playing. If it gets into their heads that scrapping the game's current build will give them
greater numbers, they're not going to ask you permession, they are going to up and alter its entire structure.
In the end it's no longer about weither or not the game is playable. It's about how we as a community really want to advicate their actions. IMO, they could have come up with a great system, but the fact that they alienated an entire playber base to do it, by drasticly altering (without so much as a slight warning a few weeks before) a product which people have invested time and money into, does not reflect a service I'm willing to pay a single cent for.
You are right about how we as a community should act upon it, but it is in no way we should do so with a negative way cause honostly thats not a gamers way but more of someone upset with other things in life, one that can't seem to get it in ones mind its only a game, one that is unable to take responsibility for his or her own actions and continues to seek guild in other things then one self. Meaning when we (myself included ) where upset with pre-cu lets be honost for once as we can not continue to blame SOE for what they done, we have to blame ourself for putting in sooooooo much time that we totaly lost sight of true importent things in life, we where all cought up into this SWG frency and when its changed we thought our lifes fell apart, basicly cause most of us pre-cu VETS had spent far and far to much time IN A GAME yes i really felt i was investing in SWG, thankfully i changed and can see games like games and if a company behind it fucks up then well its still a game nothing to worry about aslong games will be produced to make money they will seek way's to alter games so the eventualy might I SAY MIGHT!! appeal a broader group of gamers, cause there is nothing wrong by trying to get mmorpgames out of this nichy segment we're still in. Shame many rather have these games very nichy then let it open to more gamers around the world. Also shame that i see many so-called VETS only care about their "ME "game instead of the community game SWG and more mmorpg can be. I mean look at the disgrunted side, you continieus read I WANT, I WANT, I WANT, sorry to bust the bubble of these so-called VETS but its not I WANT its WE WANT and if you so-called VETS continue to I WANT then please pretty please play single player games and enjoy them as YOU WANT!
So in the end we as gamers or better yet passionat mmorpg players should indeed let our voice be heard in a positive way as negative only keeps people away from this genre, its just amazing how many people actualy staid away from SWG because of these misguided blinded disgrunter so called VETS and now some of them who listended to them seem to be enjoying SWG allot. And thats how mmorpg should be played , you have fun with them if not one move on to another game, continue to holdon to the past will never set a foot forward but always makes a person step back, and steppen back never got anyone anywhere.
So its good to hear from a CM about how SWG is doing , while i must say i noticed this already more ingame then before i read htis, like i said before we see many returning and also many newbs stepping in.
Ok listen. I haven't played any mmorpg's in over a year now besides a LoTR trial, school and work just take up too much time. And you know what? I'm still angry about what SOE did to SWG. When enough players are complaining about their "ME" problems, it becomes a "WE" problem . The reason for that is is that we are all complaining about the SAME THING. As a paying customer, I feel like SOE had an obligation to at least ask the community how they would feel about such a change. This would be equivalent to you paying for your cable tv bill every month and then your cable company decides to remove all of their stations in favor of all educational stations. Yes I'm sure the educational stations are "better" for us, but they will in no way ever have the same content. It is your type of attitude, Reklaw, that makes it ok for SOE to do those kinds of things to games and get away with it. And by going back to SWG in any other form other than the original, I feel like it is giving credence to what SOE did. Don't get me wrong, from what I've read I think SOE is doing a good job with Vanguard and other things now. They just need to know that that is not something that WE, as a playerbase, will accept. Before I ever even think about going back to SWG, I would need to see an official apology from SOE. All I want them to do is admit that they were wrong and alienated a lot of their players. I realize, as a company, that you are supposed to try and get as much money as possible, but at least pretend like you care about your customers.
I can't blame you dude for seeing it like that, I mean you'r still in school, i know many people arn't real gamers they just need something to vent or complain about , and good you found me to be a source to complain about.
Now when you done with school and maybe found yourself a real job you might also begin to play games for what they are GAMES!
And maybe try and educate yourself with what SOE has already admitted so you don't have to ask for it as they already have done so. But i geusse some people are still not able to read but only seem to be able to complain about the past. Like i said many times stop living in the past and life today! And before some ignorant reply again comes of this let me be clear living TODAY does not have to mean you NEED to like a game today, everyone still free as a bird to like or not like games. But it would be very cool if people indeed just saw it as a game and not something that is really importent. Almost i thought you where a okay dude as you said you still at school and probebly have a afterschool job, but even then it seems some people are not able to really read.....unfortunaly
Ok look, school means college. I'll be 22 this month, so don't try and patronize me. Try going to college and learning how to use the English language. However, I wasn't trying to flame you, just pointing out the type of attitude that makes it ok for SOE to alienate their playerbases in order to get more money. "Ohhh just let SoE do whatever they want to a game.. It's ok because we are all free and this is just a game." I hate hippies. Stop acting like there's a future in the game. Why not relive a game's past when there's no future for it? I'm fully aware what living TODAY means, so you had better be the one to actually read what I'm saying. If everyone had your hippie attitude we'd all be in a lot of trouble. You are paying for a product, and by paying for that product you hope that they will only add new content, not completely remake the game. So yes, if this were some free game I would have no room to complain, but since I PAID for it, I felt really alienated when they changed everything about it. And for your information, I'm working a white collar job right now 8-5 everyday. And you know what? It has strengthed my attitude towards the subject. Now that I don't have time to waste playing around on different games, I'd like to know that a game that I can only play every now and then won't completely up and change everything about itself just to try and get more money from a different fanbase. Before you reply Reklaw, think about what you are going to say this time. That's the luxury about the internet and forums.
right so if its so healthy why wont they release the Subscriber numbers?
EDIT: my honest guess is around 30k-40k
They've never given exact numbers out, only "more then x" back when the game was first released. Nothing new here
Let them have their joy, they like to imagine the game is dead
SOE used to publish the subscription numbers fanboi. Now they just boast on how good it is doing and tell us that it isn't their policy to publish sub numbers...
Ya right, if I were SOE I wouldn't want the world to know that 30k people play this game when SOE already admitted that 400k used to back in Pre-CU days...
No-brainer, unless you just don't understand economics.
A few little notes on this particular topic that I've been dying to share with you-
When I learned the truth of how well Star Wars Galaxies was doing, I was stunned. I can't give you numbers, but the charts I had seen before (and likely you've seen) were dead wrong. SWG is currently very healthy, and is getting better. The playerbase is growing, with both new players and returning veterans. There is a lot on the horizon for this game.
Why does anyone believe what soe tells them? Have they not lied enough to their players in the past? Oh well.
“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
Let them have their joy, they like to imagine the game is dead
I think you missed his point there, Mr. "True Vet".
SOE has never given exact numbers, not since they were bragging about 300K active subs in 2003. Since then, all we've gotten are comments about how the population is doing relative to the time immediately before. Thing like "numbers are down after the launch of the CU" or "numbers are down since the launch of the NGE".
The entire concept of the NGE is an admitted failure from Smedley himself. So at best, what GreyPawn is telling us is that subs are up from what's essentially rock bottom for SOE. This is like George W. Bush looking at his approval rating in the low 30% range and being excited because it's up out of the high 20% range.
If they weren't ashamed of their sub numbers, they'd publish them, not just speak about them in vague terms.
The NGE really doesn't exist anymore. The only remaining parts is the optional manual targeting and the condensed professions. Even the professions thing isn't entirely true to what the NGE was either every since expertise came out. So yes, we all know the NGE wasn't a roaring succes and the majority of what it changed has already been replaced and in some cases, reverted.
See Ob i disagree with the only parts of the NGE left is the targetting and professions. The Goofy on crack combat is still in. The Loot is better than crafted items is still in. The Jedi as a starter profession still in. Honest if they would at least redo the best parts of all 3 systems and spruce up the GFX they may actually suceed. The first parts you listed are the main issues 99% of us have issues with. The combat and lack of the profession system.
Furthermore, it's assumption that the subs hit rock bottom. Yes, people left the game but how many actually cancelled their subs? The latest house purge and the sparse number of abandoned houses prooves that overall, the game has seen alot of active subs, at least up to a year ago. How many paid in advance for a year and quit? Um Houses being left doesnt mean they are active currently. Depends on inactivity of those accounts if their houses went abandon. But population issues i could care less about. Depends on which side you ask on this issue. Galaxies may have improved from what it was nov 05 but its not and improvement over the last two systems. Why do you think they keep rolling back old parts from precu? It aint cause the games healthy, if it was they wouldnt need to add or change a thing. Im not knocking those of you that choose to play and happy doing it. Just my point of view of the current game. Wonder why everyone gets excited when they rollback a part of the old game? Heck it was allready in the game once and in better form. Beast master or what ever was a good start ,but still they had a better system and profession allready.
Even the combat speed is not as fast as it was when the NGE first went live, that was slowed down at some point last year. The only situation loot is better then crafted is with weapons. All other crafted goods are better then anything looted.
I'm not saying all the owners of those houses have active accounts, but they were active at some point in the last year for them to avoid being demolished. Even if they're not active now, that is quite a bit of money SWG has pulled in with subs over the last year. I also have to disagree with your comparison on Beast Master and Creature Handler. I've been both now and from my experience I have to say that Beast Master has much more complexity and depth to it then what CH had.
right so if its so healthy why wont they release the Subscriber numbers?
EDIT: my honest guess is around 30k-40k
They've never given exact numbers out, only "more then x" back when the game was first released. Nothing new here
Let them have their joy, they like to imagine the game is dead
SOE used to publish the subscription numbers fanboi. Now they just boast on how good it is doing and tell us that it isn't their policy to publish sub numbers...
Ya right, if I were SOE I wouldn't want the world to know that 30k people play this game when SOE already admitted that 400k used to back in Pre-CU days...
No-brainer, unless you just don't understand economics.
Please feel free to find when they gave out an exact number. To my knowledge they've only given rough numbers out, such as more then X number. I'd also like to see where you got that 400k number from too.
I can feel your anger. It gives you focus, makes you... stronger.
To fire back on a couple of points.
When you learned the truth??? So... they haven't told you anything for like 1½ year?? You can't give us numbers? Well, then your statement is irrelevant. I only just joined with SOE as SWG CM in June. Beforehand, I honestly had no clue how well SWG was doing.
Another general statement without support of facts in any way. Making observations/statements without a minimum of empirical data to support your claim will at most get a chuckle out of me.Oof, you got me there. I can't really give empirical data (or rebellious data, if you'll pardon the pun). Subscriber numbers are those sticky things that businesses don't usually give out (EA, NCSoft, Sony, etc). But from a person point of view, I can say that SWG is healthy and doing great, without any lying or creative truthiness.
Perhaps, but what's the growth ratio? How long are you able to rettain new players and returning vets? No figures/stats = no credibility, sorry. Oof, got me again with the stats. Check out some of the high population servers, though. Compare and contrast. Go on, it won't hurt.
Lol, you guys been saying that for ages. There's lying and then there's lying with style and flamboyancy. The least you can do is to be abit more imaginative when you lie. Well, if there's such a vast body of conceptual ideas on the table then share it with us. We have been. All it takes is a cursory glance! Check out the official SWG site. You'll find new stuff being discussed about on the forums, the Senate program newly reinvigorated, the Village making a return, a bunch of new stuff in the works. Heroic encounters, the collections system, new quests... oodles of stuff!
But, really, don't take my word for it. I wouldn't. I very well could be a corporate shill (there are a lot of 'em about). Log in, find out for yourself. Or, ask someone in-game already that you trust.
This thread is magnificent. Such passion! I can feel your anger. It gives you focus, makes you... stronger. To fire back on a couple of points. When you learned the truth??? So... they haven't told you anything for like 1½ year?? You can't give us numbers? Well, then your statement is irrelevant. I only just joined with SOE as SWG CM in June. Beforehand, I honestly had no clue how well SWG was doing. Another general statement without support of facts in any way. Making observations/statements without a minimum of empirical data to support your claim will at most get a chuckle out of me.Oof, you got me there. I can't really give empirical data (or rebellious data, if you'll pardon the pun). Subscriber numbers are those sticky things that businesses don't usually give out (EA, NCSoft, Sony, etc). But from a person point of view, I can say that SWG is healthy and doing great, without any lying or creative truthiness.
Perhaps, but what's the growth ratio? How long are you able to rettain new players and returning vets? No figures/stats = no credibility, sorry. Oof, got me again with the stats. Check out some of the high population servers, though. Compare and contrast. Go on, it won't hurt.
Lol, you guys been saying that for ages. There's lying and then there's lying with style and flamboyancy. The least you can do is to be abit more imaginative when you lie. Well, if there's such a vast body of conceptual ideas on the table then share it with us. We have been. All it takes is a cursory glance! Check out the official SWG site. You'll find new stuff being discussed about on the forums, the Senate program newly reinvigorated, the Village making a return, a bunch of new stuff in the works. Heroic encounters, the collections system, new quests... oodles of stuff! But, really, don't take my word for it. I wouldn't. I very well could be a corporate shill (there are a lot of 'em about). Log in, find out for yourself. Or, ask someone in-game already that you trust.
OK, since this is all about honesty here- GreyPawn let's have a little discussion. LA had talks with both Bioware and SOE about a SW mmorpg. Bioware was going for the Kotor timeline - SOE for post ROTJ. Bioware was given permission to start work on that mmorpg,since SOE dropped the ball already,but LA decided they didn't like the direction and canned it. They were then to go back into talks with SOE about their plan. Is this the truth? People can cry for sources,but GreyPawn knows all this,since it's true. OK since you know I'm truthful about this,how about the fact that MOST including the lead designer feel that the NGE is a joke? That the devs cannot stand NGE gameplay? That even the devs want an improved Precu that isn't NGE? How many devs have quit playing SWG due to the NGE? How many devs were about to get fired due to them not wanting and warning about the NGE and then getting put on the DC comics game instead? I would really like to enjoy this game again,but why should I in your honest opinion,when even those that work on the game itself do not enjoy it?
Sounds to me like the NGE is still doing crap and $OE need to try and build up some reassurance for current players to stick around. Why make a statement like that with zero proof at all to back it up?
I can easily say the game is in a worse state than even when NGE launched and have as much proof as he just gave. I can say only 10 people play on a certain server and have as much proof as he just gave to how great things are. People can say whatever they want but with no figures or facts to back it up, why say it?
My guess would be to try to retain the current poor subscriber levels and not let it drop further.
SWG isn't doing as well as it once did and never will again BECAUSE of the NGE. Is it doing better right now than it was a year ago? Sure. But that isn't saying a whole lot.
All I can say is if there are suddenly tons more subs and SWG is suddenly LOTS more financially healthy, why isn't anyone seeing it in terms of increased development investment, an expansion, faster publishes, and improved server hardware?
THAT is where the rubber meets the road. And it was pointing THAT out that got me a forum vacation courtesy of the new guy. If subs are up now, put the money where the subscribers are. SOE isn't. Why? Because the money (and hence subs) aren't there to fund it, and the game is in maintenance mode at best. If anything, investment has decreased (the speed of publishes has slowed over the last year to the point that it now takes 4 months to do one).
SWG isn't doing as well as it once did and never will again BECAUSE of the NGE. Is it doing better right now than it was a year ago? Sure. But that isn't saying a whole lot. All I can say is if there are suddenly tons more subs and SWG is suddenly LOTS more financially healthy, why isn't anyone seeing it in terms of increased development investment, an expansion, faster publishes, and improved server hardware? THAT is where the rubber meets the road. And it was pointing THAT out that got me a forum vacation courtesy of the new guy. If subs are up now, put the money where the subscribers are. SOE isn't. Why? Because the money (and hence subs) aren't there to fund it, and the game is in maintenance mode at best. If anything, investment has decreased (the speed of publishes has slowed over the last year to the point that it now takes 4 months to do one).
Amen!
It only took them 14 months to promise fixes for the NGE which wasnt suppose to be broke. Wasnt the NGE suppose to fix the CU? And the CU was to fix Precu? Amazing how each time failure and subs seem to go hand in hand. We all voted with our cancelations and disgust for each game change. I wont deny the NGE has improved, but when your at rock bottom time to go up. Still they dont get why there isnt thousands running back to the game. Most of us just got tired of it changing every publish and that trend continues today..
Comments
They've never given exact numbers out, only "more then x" back when the game was first released. Nothing new here
They've never given exact numbers out, only "more then x" back when the game was first released. Nothing new here
Let them have their joy, they like to imagine the game is dead
I think you missed his point there, Mr. "True Vet".
SOE has never given exact numbers, not since they were bragging about 300K active subs in 2003. Since then, all we've gotten are comments about how the population is doing relative to the time immediately before. Thing like "numbers are down after the launch of the CU" or "numbers are down since the launch of the NGE".
The entire concept of the NGE is an admitted failure from Smedley himself. So at best, what GreyPawn is telling us is that subs are up from what's essentially rock bottom for SOE. This is like George W. Bush looking at his approval rating in the low 30% range and being excited because it's up out of the high 20% range.
If they weren't ashamed of their sub numbers, they'd publish them, not just speak about them in vague terms.
Since no one gathers for shuttles, heads back to town for terminals (cos of huge amounts of quests), folks not on planet (space game) etc, the perception is the game is empty but my trader alt knows full well that there is a huge market out there.
I have sold so many missle launchers, that it would be silly to say that people brought more than a couple, so I have to conclude its not as empty as it feels.
Now playing: VG (after a long break from MMORPGS)
Played for more than a month: Darkfall online, Vanguard SOH, Everquest, Horizons, WoW, SWG, Everquest II, Eve
I think you missed his point there, Mr. "True Vet".
SOE has never given exact numbers, not since they were bragging about 300K active subs in 2003. Since then, all we've gotten are comments about how the population is doing relative to the time immediately before. Thing like "numbers are down after the launch of the CU" or "numbers are down since the launch of the NGE".
The entire concept of the NGE is an admitted failure from Smedley himself. So at best, what GreyPawn is telling us is that subs are up from what's essentially rock bottom for SOE. This is like George W. Bush looking at his approval rating in the low 30% range and being excited because it's up out of the high 20% range.
If they weren't ashamed of their sub numbers, they'd publish them, not just speak about them in vague terms.
Not atall, it's standard business practice not to give specifics, you don't see two major oil companies comparing how many barrels of oil they sell a year. SOE knows what they're doing.
I think you missed his point there, Mr. "True Vet".
SOE has never given exact numbers, not since they were bragging about 300K active subs in 2003. Since then, all we've gotten are comments about how the population is doing relative to the time immediately before. Thing like "numbers are down after the launch of the CU" or "numbers are down since the launch of the NGE".
The entire concept of the NGE is an admitted failure from Smedley himself. So at best, what GreyPawn is telling us is that subs are up from what's essentially rock bottom for SOE. This is like George W. Bush looking at his approval rating in the low 30% range and being excited because it's up out of the high 20% range.
If they weren't ashamed of their sub numbers, they'd publish them, not just speak about them in vague terms.
The NGE really doesn't exist anymore. The only remaining parts is the optional manual targeting and the condensed professions. Even the professions thing isn't entirely true to what the NGE was either every since expertise came out. So yes, we all know the NGE wasn't a roaring succes and the majority of what it changed has already been replaced and in some cases, reverted.
Furthermore, it's assumption that the subs hit rock bottom. Yes, people left the game but how many actually cancelled their subs? The latest house purge and the sparse number of abandoned houses prooves that overall, the game has seen alot of active subs, at least up to a year ago.
I think you missed his point there, Mr. "True Vet".
SOE has never given exact numbers, not since they were bragging about 300K active subs in 2003. Since then, all we've gotten are comments about how the population is doing relative to the time immediately before. Thing like "numbers are down after the launch of the CU" or "numbers are down since the launch of the NGE".
The entire concept of the NGE is an admitted failure from Smedley himself. So at best, what GreyPawn is telling us is that subs are up from what's essentially rock bottom for SOE. This is like George W. Bush looking at his approval rating in the low 30% range and being excited because it's up out of the high 20% range.
If they weren't ashamed of their sub numbers, they'd publish them, not just speak about them in vague terms.
The NGE really doesn't exist anymore. The only remaining parts is the optional manual targeting and the condensed professions. Even the professions thing isn't entirely true to what the NGE was either every since expertise came out. So yes, we all know the NGE wasn't a roaring succes and the majority of what it changed has already been replaced and in some cases, reverted.
Furthermore, it's assumption that the subs hit rock bottom. Yes, people left the game but how many actually cancelled their subs? The latest house purge and the sparse number of abandoned houses prooves that overall, the game has seen alot of active subs, at least up to a year ago.
I was actually quite surprised at the number of houses that were demolished, i honestly thought it would be more. (With all the rumors etc)
"The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the na
Once again , you fail.
Once again , you fail.
lets see what the players have to say: http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/posts/list.m?topic_id=409905
that topic was started only yesterday and already 5 pages lon'.. how many of those folks do ya think would still be playin' NGE if there was a classic server?
alas, they don't have much choice right now...
im thinkin its not doing so well because me and my guild are not play it at all..........and yes they took 2 to 3 yrs of game play and threw it away for for nottin !!!! for new kiddie subs,and now i get 2 to 3 yrsto beat them up and hold their feet to the FIRE.. free market is a wonderful thing....
bottom line is its dated old poor worn-out dog of a game
soo has anyone noticed that tabula rasa UI looks like old swg ...im just sick of dwarfs,worlocks and what not..
Trade in material assumptions for spiritual facts and make permanent progress.
i am curious as to why you would want to see the sub numbers, because lets be honest here if they post numbers that are even a lil bit favorable towards SWG you all will scream they are lieing...so imo its a waste of time for them to post sub numbers since you don't want to believe them no matter what.
"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand."
- Lewis Thomas
I think you missed his point there, Mr. "True Vet".
SOE has never given exact numbers, not since they were bragging about 300K active subs in 2003. Since then, all we've gotten are comments about how the population is doing relative to the time immediately before. Thing like "numbers are down after the launch of the CU" or "numbers are down since the launch of the NGE".
The entire concept of the NGE is an admitted failure from Smedley himself. So at best, what GreyPawn is telling us is that subs are up from what's essentially rock bottom for SOE. This is like George W. Bush looking at his approval rating in the low 30% range and being excited because it's up out of the high 20% range.
If they weren't ashamed of their sub numbers, they'd publish them, not just speak about them in vague terms.
The NGE really doesn't exist anymore. The only remaining parts is the optional manual targeting and the condensed professions. Even the professions thing isn't entirely true to what the NGE was either every since expertise came out. So yes, we all know the NGE wasn't a roaring succes and the majority of what it changed has already been replaced and in some cases, reverted.
No matter what, they want more people playing. If it gets into their heads that scrapping the game's current build will give them
You are right about how we as a community should act upon it, but it is in no way we should do so with a negative way cause honostly thats not a gamers way but more of someone upset with other things in life, one that can't seem to get it in ones mind its only a game, one that is unable to take responsibility for his or her own actions and continues to seek guild in other things then one self. Meaning when we (myself included ) where upset with pre-cu lets be honost for once as we can not continue to blame SOE for what they done, we have to blame ourself for putting in sooooooo much time that we totaly lost sight of true importent things in life, we where all cought up into this SWG frency and when its changed we thought our lifes fell apart, basicly cause most of us pre-cu VETS had spent far and far to much time IN A GAME yes i really felt i was investing in SWG, thankfully i changed and can see games like games and if a company behind it fucks up then well its still a game nothing to worry about aslong games will be produced to make money they will seek way's to alter games so the eventualy might I SAY MIGHT!! appeal a broader group of gamers, cause there is nothing wrong by trying to get mmorpgames out of this nichy segment we're still in. Shame many rather have these games very nichy then let it open to more gamers around the world. Also shame that i see many so-called VETS only care about their "ME "game instead of the community game SWG and more mmorpg can be. I mean look at the disgrunted side, you continieus read I WANT, I WANT, I WANT, sorry to bust the bubble of these so-called VETS but its not I WANT its WE WANT and if you so-called VETS continue to I WANT then please pretty please play single player games and enjoy them as YOU WANT!The problem is, they are most likely to change the game AGAIN because its all a numbers game to them.
A) By vets returning and there being "Just enough" people playing to keep the game alive, they know now that they can get away with
drastic changes in the games dynamics and not have to worry because people keep comming back to support them.
greater numbers, they're not going to ask you permession, they are going to up and alter its entire structure.
In the end it's no longer about weither or not the game is playable. It's about how we as a community really want to advicate their actions. IMO, they could have come up with a great system, but the fact that they alienated an entire playber base to do it, by drasticly altering (without so much as a slight warning a few weeks before) a product which people have invested time and money into, does not reflect a service I'm willing to pay a single cent for.
So in the end we as gamers or better yet passionat mmorpg players should indeed let our voice be heard in a positive way as negative only keeps people away from this genre, its just amazing how many people actualy staid away from SWG because of these misguided blinded disgrunter so called VETS and now some of them who listended to them seem to be enjoying SWG allot. And thats how mmorpg should be played , you have fun with them if not one move on to another game, continue to holdon to the past will never set a foot forward but always makes a person step back, and steppen back never got anyone anywhere.
So its good to hear from a CM about how SWG is doing , while i must say i noticed this already more ingame then before i read htis, like i said before we see many returning and also many newbs stepping in.
Ok listen. I haven't played any mmorpg's in over a year now besides a LoTR trial, school and work just take up too much time. And you know what? I'm still angry about what SOE did to SWG. When enough players are complaining about their "ME" problems, it becomes a "WE" problem . The reason for that is is that we are all complaining about the SAME THING. As a paying customer, I feel like SOE had an obligation to at least ask the community how they would feel about such a change. This would be equivalent to you paying for your cable tv bill every month and then your cable company decides to remove all of their stations in favor of all educational stations. Yes I'm sure the educational stations are "better" for us, but they will in no way ever have the same content. It is your type of attitude, Reklaw, that makes it ok for SOE to do those kinds of things to games and get away with it. And by going back to SWG in any other form other than the original, I feel like it is giving credence to what SOE did. Don't get me wrong, from what I've read I think SOE is doing a good job with Vanguard and other things now. They just need to know that that is not something that WE, as a playerbase, will accept. Before I ever even think about going back to SWG, I would need to see an official apology from SOE. All I want them to do is admit that they were wrong and alienated a lot of their players. I realize, as a company, that you are supposed to try and get as much money as possible, but at least pretend like you care about your customers.
I can't blame you dude for seeing it like that, I mean you'r still in school, i know many people arn't real gamers they just need something to vent or complain about , and good you found me to be a source to complain about.
Now when you done with school and maybe found yourself a real job you might also begin to play games for what they are GAMES!
And maybe try and educate yourself with what SOE has already admitted so you don't have to ask for it as they already have done so. But i geusse some people are still not able to read but only seem to be able to complain about the past. Like i said many times stop living in the past and life today! And before some ignorant reply again comes of this let me be clear living TODAY does not have to mean you NEED to like a game today, everyone still free as a bird to like or not like games. But it would be very cool if people indeed just saw it as a game and not something that is really importent. Almost i thought you where a okay dude as you said you still at school and probebly have a afterschool job, but even then it seems some people are not able to really read.....unfortunaly
Ok look, school means college. I'll be 22 this month, so don't try and patronize me. Try going to college and learning how to use the English language. However, I wasn't trying to flame you, just pointing out the type of attitude that makes it ok for SOE to alienate their playerbases in order to get more money. "Ohhh just let SoE do whatever they want to a game.. It's ok because we are all free and this is just a game." I hate hippies. Stop acting like there's a future in the game. Why not relive a game's past when there's no future for it? I'm fully aware what living TODAY means, so you had better be the one to actually read what I'm saying. If everyone had your hippie attitude we'd all be in a lot of trouble. You are paying for a product, and by paying for that product you hope that they will only add new content, not completely remake the game. So yes, if this were some free game I would have no room to complain, but since I PAID for it, I felt really alienated when they changed everything about it. And for your information, I'm working a white collar job right now 8-5 everyday. And you know what? It has strengthed my attitude towards the subject. Now that I don't have time to waste playing around on different games, I'd like to know that a game that I can only play every now and then won't completely up and change everything about itself just to try and get more money from a different fanbase. Before you reply Reklaw, think about what you are going to say this time. That's the luxury about the internet and forums.
They've never given exact numbers out, only "more then x" back when the game was first released. Nothing new here
Let them have their joy, they like to imagine the game is dead
SOE used to publish the subscription numbers fanboi. Now they just boast on how good it is doing and tell us that it isn't their policy to publish sub numbers...
Ya right, if I were SOE I wouldn't want the world to know that 30k people play this game when SOE already admitted that 400k used to back in Pre-CU days...
No-brainer, unless you just don't understand economics.
“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
I think you missed his point there, Mr. "True Vet".
SOE has never given exact numbers, not since they were bragging about 300K active subs in 2003. Since then, all we've gotten are comments about how the population is doing relative to the time immediately before. Thing like "numbers are down after the launch of the CU" or "numbers are down since the launch of the NGE".
The entire concept of the NGE is an admitted failure from Smedley himself. So at best, what GreyPawn is telling us is that subs are up from what's essentially rock bottom for SOE. This is like George W. Bush looking at his approval rating in the low 30% range and being excited because it's up out of the high 20% range.
If they weren't ashamed of their sub numbers, they'd publish them, not just speak about them in vague terms.
The NGE really doesn't exist anymore. The only remaining parts is the optional manual targeting and the condensed professions. Even the professions thing isn't entirely true to what the NGE was either every since expertise came out. So yes, we all know the NGE wasn't a roaring succes and the majority of what it changed has already been replaced and in some cases, reverted.
Even the combat speed is not as fast as it was when the NGE first went live, that was slowed down at some point last year. The only situation loot is better then crafted is with weapons. All other crafted goods are better then anything looted.I'm not saying all the owners of those houses have active accounts, but they were active at some point in the last year for them to avoid being demolished. Even if they're not active now, that is quite a bit of money SWG has pulled in with subs over the last year. I also have to disagree with your comparison on Beast Master and Creature Handler. I've been both now and from my experience I have to say that Beast Master has much more complexity and depth to it then what CH had.
They've never given exact numbers out, only "more then x" back when the game was first released. Nothing new here
Let them have their joy, they like to imagine the game is dead
SOE used to publish the subscription numbers fanboi. Now they just boast on how good it is doing and tell us that it isn't their policy to publish sub numbers...
Ya right, if I were SOE I wouldn't want the world to know that 30k people play this game when SOE already admitted that 400k used to back in Pre-CU days...
No-brainer, unless you just don't understand economics.
Please feel free to find when they gave out an exact number. To my knowledge they've only given rough numbers out, such as more then X number. I'd also like to see where you got that 400k number from too.
This thread is magnificent. Such passion!
I can feel your anger. It gives you focus, makes you... stronger.
To fire back on a couple of points.
When you learned the truth??? So... they haven't told you anything for like 1½ year?? You can't give us numbers? Well, then your statement is irrelevant. I only just joined with SOE as SWG CM in June. Beforehand, I honestly had no clue how well SWG was doing.
Another general statement without support of facts in any way. Making observations/statements without a minimum of empirical data to support your claim will at most get a chuckle out of me. Oof, you got me there. I can't really give empirical data (or rebellious data, if you'll pardon the pun). Subscriber numbers are those sticky things that businesses don't usually give out (EA, NCSoft, Sony, etc). But from a person point of view, I can say that SWG is healthy and doing great, without any lying or creative truthiness.
Perhaps, but what's the growth ratio? How long are you able to rettain new players and returning vets? No figures/stats = no credibility, sorry. Oof, got me again with the stats. Check out some of the high population servers, though. Compare and contrast. Go on, it won't hurt.
Lol, you guys been saying that for ages. There's lying and then there's lying with style and flamboyancy. The least you can do is to be abit more imaginative when you lie. Well, if there's such a vast body of conceptual ideas on the table then share it with us. We have been. All it takes is a cursory glance! Check out the official SWG site. You'll find new stuff being discussed about on the forums, the Senate program newly reinvigorated, the Village making a return, a bunch of new stuff in the works. Heroic encounters, the collections system, new quests... oodles of stuff!
But, really, don't take my word for it. I wouldn't. I very well could be a corporate shill (there are a lot of 'em about). Log in, find out for yourself. Or, ask someone in-game already that you trust.
Sounds to me like the NGE is still doing crap and $OE need to try and build up some reassurance for current players to stick around. Why make a statement like that with zero proof at all to back it up?
I can easily say the game is in a worse state than even when NGE launched and have as much proof as he just gave. I can say only 10 people play on a certain server and have as much proof as he just gave to how great things are. People can say whatever they want but with no figures or facts to back it up, why say it?
My guess would be to try to retain the current poor subscriber levels and not let it drop further.
SWG isn't doing as well as it once did and never will again BECAUSE of the NGE. Is it doing better right now than it was a year ago? Sure. But that isn't saying a whole lot.
All I can say is if there are suddenly tons more subs and SWG is suddenly LOTS more financially healthy, why isn't anyone seeing it in terms of increased development investment, an expansion, faster publishes, and improved server hardware?
THAT is where the rubber meets the road. And it was pointing THAT out that got me a forum vacation courtesy of the new guy. If subs are up now, put the money where the subscribers are. SOE isn't. Why? Because the money (and hence subs) aren't there to fund it, and the game is in maintenance mode at best. If anything, investment has decreased (the speed of publishes has slowed over the last year to the point that it now takes 4 months to do one).
Amen!
It only took them 14 months to promise fixes for the NGE which wasnt suppose to be broke. Wasnt the NGE suppose to fix the CU? And the CU was to fix Precu? Amazing how each time failure and subs seem to go hand in hand. We all voted with our cancelations and disgust for each game change. I wont deny the NGE has improved, but when your at rock bottom time to go up. Still they dont get why there isnt thousands running back to the game. Most of us just got tired of it changing every publish and that trend continues today..