And? Where does it say Aventurine S.A. , developers of Darkfall Online , get 27 million loan for development? If it said that somewhere then I would not doubt it.
It doesn't.. Thats the point. It's just a very vague mention with the word "Aventurine". Then everyone starts jumping to conclusions and filling in all the blanks with their own opinions. Not facts....
Why is it that there is never some cold hard indisputable FACTS about this project or company?? Why is it always some cloak and dagger bullshit found somewhere from some third party at the ass end of the internet and never really comfirmable?
Wouldn't you think that if they really got 27 mill to build darkfall they would be happy as shit and say something publically about it? I know I would and I am sure you would too. And hire about 50 more workers...
Well, no but to be able to register the gr domain and get the s.a. and noone else in Greece would be able to use that name. Right ? Who else could it be then ?
Of cource they may use the loan to do something else but it is never the less some monetary muscles that can be used to i.e. self publish DF. To take up a loan this size would make no sence unless you were planning to pay it back soon.
--- And when we got more women on the team, it was like No, no, no. We need puppies and horses in there. John Smedley, SOE
"It doesn't say any of those convertible bonds were sold. Putting 27.5 million up in covertible bonds doesn't mean they sold them. The only information provided states a Law Firm representing Aventurine in the actions of putting up the bonds for purchase. There are no records, transactions or documents stating that they did in fact sell the bonds. You can read that bond statement all you want, the keyword is ISSUED bonds, not SOLD bonds."
They were issued convertible bonds. They were not given millions of dollars in cash like some people think. You need to sell convertible bonds first and no where does it say any of it was actually sold.
Win what? What exactly are you trying to win? They were issued convertible bonds. They were not given millions of dollars in cash like some people think. You need to sell convertible bonds first and no where does it say any of it was actually sold.
I believe it said it in the same place where it was mentioned. When it said that the bonds were issued(also means sold).
That review is incredibly biased, just read it it is saying exactly what a lot of fanboys have said based off of what limited information and videos that have been shown. The guy obviously already decided it was the best game evah before he sat down and played it. So how can a review of it be posted? it wouldn't be a review anyway it would be an impression of the game, i doubt that IGN or gamespot or even mmorpg.com has their impressions or reviews of games looked over by said games pr department. If they supposedly have a year old build that gives the impression to someone that it will be released by next year, then someone please explain why they aren't going to trade shows, showing that the game works etc to professional sites? Hell don't explain, its quite funny watching some of the resident fanboys here making excuses for these guys. The way this company handles its pr, presents it self etc is so amateurish as someone has stated before me in this thread. The animations, videos they have shown etc are incredibly basic, their the kind of things you have at the concept stage of development. And as the impression this guy has given states 30-40 people, working on such a complex game, it is unlikely, that they will produce the game that they are hyping up. As has been stated if a game like wow takes 5 years of development to make with 70-80 experienced professionals with the funding Blizzard had and has now, how can these guys produce a game like darkfall in supposedly 8 years if you believe the estimate they keep spouting of next year, maybe early 2009 release ? Hell Ill use and even more recent one, look at Vangaurd, it had 100s of people working on it, millions of pounds in budget, it offered almost as much as Darkfall wants, and it has failed miserably with only 1/2 the content it promised in. I doubt Darkfall will be even Vangaurds standard at release, and if it is you have already seen what happens to games like that. They really need to do something substantial like actually prove they have stable servers, a functional game, a competent developer, funding, etc every points to the contrary. They supposedly had a big loan, so whys their site so crap, why is it volunteers moderating said site? why havn't they got a pr team yet? seriously, do the people that buy into this crap have any common sense? I really don't see how people cant ask such obvious questions. Its a shame this game is more than likely going to fail though it just makes it look like sandbox pvp games cant succeed, so we will end up with more wow clones
It isn't a review, it is a "letter home" telling about his experiences at Aventurine. It is heavily limited by NDA but it is interesting because it written by an independant party. You may speculate about the quality of the game, but the fact is you have NOTHING to prove your point. You are trying to compare it to Vanguard, or indeed WoW, but the truth is, you cannot compare the two games. Why ? Because it is cheaper to make a sandbox compared to a themepark. You may want to check out CCP and EvE if you want something compare with.
What DF don't have in quantity, it will retake and double in quality. The game have just about 700 quests but you will be able to basically do whatever you want. DF is about freedom and there will be no elite mobs or yellow brick road to show you the way. Aventurine is keeping things low cost and I think that is ok. Because every dollar they save on ie hireing forum mods, they can use on what they are supposed to...developing the game. The lesser the cost, the better their investors earnings will be. If this game is released with the promised features, these guys are going to be very rich indeed.
In short, you bring nothing new to the table, everything you say, is said about 3-4 each week and really what were you thinking you could achieve here anyways ? Change the mind of people who has followed this game since, what, 2002 ? I don't think so
In not trying to change peoples opinion im stating mine, I have known about this game since they annouced it, I just don't follow this game blindly, theres quite alot of things that i listed in my previous post that makes this project look like a joke.
And i don't need to bring anything new to the table because they still fail to answer the old questions after 7 years in development. ( 5 if anyone wants to be a fanboy about facts ) And those questions are considered the norm for every mmo that releases to prove. Like for example, proving your servers can handle the load, which you can not do through simulations, if you could do that their wouldn't be need for stress testing.
And if your wondering why i still follow the game if i think that, its the same reason most are, there is nothing else that offers what darkfall wants to offer. I don't think they will achieve even half of it, but if they do achieve half and are successful enough to make other developers think it will be worth the risk then we could one day have everything Aventurine wants in Darkfall plus even half would be good enough for me.
Maybe if they didn't act like amatures, and acted like professional game developers then maybe there wouldn't be so much doubt around them. It doesnt help either that they acting like amatures whilst they are promising what people that enjoy this niche would consider a dream mmo.
We know this game exists, we know its been proven, what we are arguing about is in what state the game is, maybe you should go back to warcraft, since obviously if reading a few posts is to challenging for you you wont even get past the installation screen for Darkfall.
To Yami, you havent won anything, in fact all you have done is shown that you are another fanboy that has no grasp of common sense, and like the rest of the Darkfall fanboys are still repeating the same things over and over again because you cant answer the simple questions that shouldnt even exist for a game that is supposedly 1 year from release.
So they can have some random clan blogger over who ends up writing a blog entry with no screenshots but they can't invite someone from a legitimate game review house like IGN or GameSpot? What? This doesn't add any legitimacy to the game and anyone who thinks it does is just desperate.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
So they can have some random clan blogger over who ends up writing a blog entry with no screenshots but they can't invite someone from a legitimate game review house like IGN or GameSpot? What? This doesn't add any legitimacy to the game and anyone who thinks it does is just desperate.
You people remind me of the rabid DnL fanboys.
You guys were screaming that you needed someone from the outside to play the game. So now someone has and you still complain.
Why would you want someone from a gaming site to play it? They accept ad dollars from the same games they review. Those sites are totally compromised.
I'm almost ashamed to be a follower of DFO when I see some of my fellow community try and argue a point. The, "We win!", is particularly special.
I can't say for sure if DFO is real or not, I don't care to ponder this question either. I'm in a hard position, I have played everything on the market and hate it all, so I have nothing left to believe in other than Darkfall. Now, on this matter Asp's article offers me some peace of mind, as a third party has seen the game in action, despite the fact that it was old code. He apparently enjoyed himself too, which is also reassuring to me, who is stranded with but a single thread of hope.
As for the matter of loans, Aventurine is not devoted to DFO alone. They also work with some military products/research (should my memory prove reliable). My guess would be that the majority of that loan went places other than Darkfall, but I would also guess that at least a small portion went to the game's development.
The factt hat this game seems to be proceeding is awesome. Im excited.
However, it is FAR from released.
Many games have folded much further along in their creation process than DF(see Gods and Heros, they fell apart in the final stages of Beta, LAST WEEK.)
Like many, I wait with cautious excitement for this game. But, im hardly holding my breath.
Very nice, thanks for that. I would not of found it myself because I stoped watching this game long time ago. But that is some nice stuff, however; 30 developers? The games going slow for 30, ohh well we shall see if it releases as a good game and not another Dark and Light.
If this is what it is said to be then kiss AOC away, and maybe War. This game would be very big if it all fits together and is released by next year.
In not trying to change peoples opinion im stating mine, I have known about this game since they annouced it, I just don't follow this game blindly, theres quite alot of things that i listed in my previous post that makes this project look like a joke.
And i don't need to bring anything new to the table because they still fail to answer the old questions after 7 years in development. ( 5 if anyone wants to be a fanboy about facts ) And those questions are considered the norm for every mmo that releases to prove. Like for example, proving your servers can handle the load, which you can not do through simulations, if you could do that their wouldn't be need for stress testing. And if your wondering why i still follow the game if i think that, its the same reason most are, there is nothing else that offers what darkfall wants to offer. I don't think they will achieve even half of it, but if they do achieve half and are successful enough to make other developers think it will be worth the risk then we could one day have everything Aventurine wants in Darkfall plus even half would be good enough for me. Maybe if they didn't act like amatures, and acted like professional game developers then maybe there wouldn't be so much doubt around them. It doesnt help either that they acting like amatures whilst they are promising what people that enjoy this niche would consider a dream mmo.
Soooooo...you want the game to come out but you support it by saying it will not ? And that is constructive how ? Perhaps Aventurine is the professionals because they actually respect their customers enough to not showing them an unfinished product. Aventurine is the developers, they don't have to show us anything. When they actually decide who will be the publishers, then we can begin to start talking about customer relations.
BTW we don't care, we win
--- And when we got more women on the team, it was like No, no, no. We need puppies and horses in there. John Smedley, SOE
"Aventurine SA got $27 M loan for DF___ and that’s a fact!"
That's not a fact. They issued convertible bonds.
Convertible bonds = gives you the option to convert, or change, corporate bonds into company stock instead of getting a cash repayment. The terms are set at issue. They include the date the conversion can be made, and how much stock each bond can be exchanged for. The conversion option lets the issuer offer a lower initial interest rate, and makes the bond price less sensitive than conventional bonds to changes in the interest rate.
".... Perhaps Aventurine is the professionals because they actually respect their customers enough to not showing them an unfinished product. Aventurine is the developers, they don't have to show us anything..."
What a heap of gobbledegook.
Acting professional is going to shows and displaying your product, having professional reviewers in to discuss it.
Unprofessional is never showing it at shows, showing very old code to relatively unknown journalists.
Current events do not speak well for the development staff. They act like they do not know what they are doing. Now we don't know what the game is like, they could actually be excellent coders and debuggers. The problem resides that we know nothing of the current state of the game.
Hard to say if the lack of professionalism on the marketing side will reflect on the production side.
I want this game to succeed, but continued lack of information of anything from the developers leads to the vaporware label.
As to the investment you are arguing about, the point about convertable bonds is correct. Hardly what they need to support the development of the game. They must have some very patient investors is all I can say.
Comments
And? Where does it say Aventurine S.A. , developers of Darkfall Online , get 27 million loan for development? If it said that somewhere then I would not doubt it.
It doesn't.. Thats the point. It's just a very vague mention with the word "Aventurine". Then everyone starts jumping to conclusions and filling in all the blanks with their own opinions. Not facts....
Why is it that there is never some cold hard indisputable FACTS about this project or company?? Why is it always some cloak and dagger bullshit found somewhere from some third party at the ass end of the internet and never really comfirmable?
Wouldn't you think that if they really got 27 mill to build darkfall they would be happy as shit and say something publically about it? I know I would and I am sure you would too. And hire about 50 more workers...
Well, no but to be able to register the gr domain and get the s.a. and noone else in Greece would be able to use that name. Right ? Who else could it be then ?
Of cource they may use the loan to do something else but it is never the less some monetary muscles that can be used to i.e. self publish DF. To take up a loan this size would make no sence unless you were planning to pay it back soon.
---
And when we got more women on the team, it was like No, no, no. We need puppies and horses in there.
John Smedley, SOE
It also says bonds..
"It doesn't say any of those convertible bonds were sold. Putting 27.5 million up in covertible bonds doesn't mean they sold them. The only information provided states a Law Firm representing Aventurine in the actions of putting up the bonds for purchase. There are no records, transactions or documents stating that they did in fact sell the bonds. You can read that bond statement all you want, the keyword is ISSUED bonds, not SOLD bonds."
Behold, the age of darkfall.
RIP AoC
OK, this does it!
Now i will go to Greece and find out for myself.
Only problem is to lure my girlfriend to go there. She want to go to Thailand. And i cant travel without her.
But if a manage to lure her....we will know everything we need about Aventurine.
Win what? What exactly are you trying to win?
They were issued convertible bonds. They were not given millions of dollars in cash like some people think. You need to sell convertible bonds first and no where does it say any of it was actually sold.
I believe it said it in the same place where it was mentioned. When it said that the bonds were issued(also means sold).
The thing is that the owner of the bonds can choose if they want stocks or or cash. or something like that!
Oh and...we don't care, we win
---
And when we got more women on the team, it was like No, no, no. We need puppies and horses in there.
John Smedley, SOE
It isn't a review, it is a "letter home" telling about his experiences at Aventurine. It is heavily limited by NDA but it is interesting because it written by an independant party. You may speculate about the quality of the game, but the fact is you have NOTHING to prove your point. You are trying to compare it to Vanguard, or indeed WoW, but the truth is, you cannot compare the two games. Why ? Because it is cheaper to make a sandbox compared to a themepark. You may want to check out CCP and EvE if you want something compare with.
What DF don't have in quantity, it will retake and double in quality. The game have just about 700 quests but you will be able to basically do whatever you want. DF is about freedom and there will be no elite mobs or yellow brick road to show you the way. Aventurine is keeping things low cost and I think that is ok. Because every dollar they save on ie hireing forum mods, they can use on what they are supposed to...developing the game. The lesser the cost, the better their investors earnings will be. If this game is released with the promised features, these guys are going to be very rich indeed.
In short, you bring nothing new to the table, everything you say, is said about 3-4 each week and really what were you thinking you could achieve here anyways ? Change the mind of people who has followed this game since, what, 2002 ? I don't think so
In not trying to change peoples opinion im stating mine, I have known about this game since they annouced it, I just don't follow this game blindly, theres quite alot of things that i listed in my previous post that makes this project look like a joke.
And i don't need to bring anything new to the table because they still fail to answer the old questions after 7 years in development. ( 5 if anyone wants to be a fanboy about facts ) And those questions are considered the norm for every mmo that releases to prove. Like for example, proving your servers can handle the load, which you can not do through simulations, if you could do that their wouldn't be need for stress testing.
And if your wondering why i still follow the game if i think that, its the same reason most are, there is nothing else that offers what darkfall wants to offer. I don't think they will achieve even half of it, but if they do achieve half and are successful enough to make other developers think it will be worth the risk then we could one day have everything Aventurine wants in Darkfall plus even half would be good enough for me.
Maybe if they didn't act like amatures, and acted like professional game developers then maybe there wouldn't be so much doubt around them. It doesnt help either that they acting like amatures whilst they are promising what people that enjoy this niche would consider a dream mmo.
The game exists.
It's been proven.
Go Back to warcraft online.
We know this game exists, we know its been proven, what we are arguing about is in what state the game is, maybe you should go back to warcraft, since obviously if reading a few posts is to challenging for you you wont even get past the installation screen for Darkfall.
To Yami, you havent won anything, in fact all you have done is shown that you are another fanboy that has no grasp of common sense, and like the rest of the Darkfall fanboys are still repeating the same things over and over again because you cant answer the simple questions that shouldnt even exist for a game that is supposedly 1 year from release.
So they can have some random clan blogger over who ends up writing a blog entry with no screenshots but they can't invite someone from a legitimate game review house like IGN or GameSpot? What? This doesn't add any legitimacy to the game and anyone who thinks it does is just desperate.
You people remind me of the rabid DnL fanboys.
wtf guys, the game is real... now duke forever is 100% vaporware...
you have vids of this, screenies, interviews ... what more u want?
See PE/GandH for one possible outcome of the scenario......
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
This sounds like it could be awesome game.. i just hope it won't turn in to just some gank-fest
Why would you want someone from a gaming site to play it? They accept ad dollars from the same games they review. Those sites are totally compromised.
I'm almost ashamed to be a follower of DFO when I see some of my fellow community try and argue a point. The, "We win!", is particularly special.
I can't say for sure if DFO is real or not, I don't care to ponder this question either. I'm in a hard position, I have played everything on the market and hate it all, so I have nothing left to believe in other than Darkfall. Now, on this matter Asp's article offers me some peace of mind, as a third party has seen the game in action, despite the fact that it was old code. He apparently enjoyed himself too, which is also reassuring to me, who is stranded with but a single thread of hope.
As for the matter of loans, Aventurine is not devoted to DFO alone. They also work with some military products/research (should my memory prove reliable). My guess would be that the majority of that loan went places other than Darkfall, but I would also guess that at least a small portion went to the game's development.
-Acetaminophen
The factt hat this game seems to be proceeding is awesome. Im excited.
However, it is FAR from released.
Many games have folded much further along in their creation process than DF(see Gods and Heros, they fell apart in the final stages of Beta, LAST WEEK.)
Like many, I wait with cautious excitement for this game. But, im hardly holding my breath.
Very nice, thanks for that. I would not of found it myself because I stoped watching this game long time ago. But that is some nice stuff, however; 30 developers? The games going slow for 30, ohh well we shall see if it releases as a good game and not another Dark and Light.
If this is what it is said to be then kiss AOC away, and maybe War. This game would be very big if it all fits together and is released by next year.
as long as they get this beta going this year i could see release by next year if there isnt nay major problems
btw the devs said it will releas eno mattter what they have plenty of money
BTW we don't care, we win
---
And when we got more women on the team, it was like No, no, no. We need puppies and horses in there.
John Smedley, SOE
"Aventurine SA got $27 M loan for DF___ and that’s a fact!"
That's not a fact. They issued convertible bonds.
Convertible bonds = gives you the option to convert, or change, corporate bonds into company stock instead of getting a cash repayment. The terms are set at issue. They include the date the conversion can be made, and how much stock each bond can be exchanged for. The conversion option lets the issuer offer a lower initial interest rate, and makes the bond price less sensitive than conventional bonds to changes in the interest rate.
why bother
".... Perhaps Aventurine is the professionals because they actually respect their customers enough to not showing them an unfinished product. Aventurine is the developers, they don't have to show us anything..."
What a heap of gobbledegook.
Acting professional is going to shows and displaying your product, having professional reviewers in to discuss it.
Unprofessional is never showing it at shows, showing very old code to relatively unknown journalists.
Current events do not speak well for the development staff. They act like they do not know what they are doing. Now we don't know what the game is like, they could actually be excellent coders and debuggers. The problem resides that we know nothing of the current state of the game.
Hard to say if the lack of professionalism on the marketing side will reflect on the production side.
I want this game to succeed, but continued lack of information of anything from the developers leads to the vaporware label.
As to the investment you are arguing about, the point about convertable bonds is correct. Hardly what they need to support the development of the game. They must have some very patient investors is all I can say.