Originally posted by Jenus1 Originally posted by PreCU
Ya, I know you need better proof cause you certainly lack the experience. We covered this already. Not that I wouldn't like to see stats from SOE headquarters, but I at least have the experience to understand how valid estimations of mass decreases in population are.
Once again you fail you include proof or facts to back up your claim, I can't move this debate forward if you can't catch-up.
why do you now accept the concept an educated guess based on observation, but not when jestor gave his? Did you assume jestor was trying to pass off the 200k figure as quoted fact?
He seemed so confident i didn't think he was lying and making it up without any proof.
ok, so you assumed. Your mistake. If you had much more than a couple weeks of experience with swg you would not have made that mistake.
thanks for reading.
Luckily I didn't assume for long, i requested proof which he couldn't deliver, luckily i uncovered the full story, there is no proof. From 2003-2006 I was serving my country in Iraq, therefore i couldn't play SWG, i had more important things to do, such as keep my squad alive.
Thanks for reading.
Oh for cryin' out... listen, look up the Lucas Arts press releases for 2004. There's at least one where they quote numbers of subscriptions for SOE in total. Subtract the number of EQ1 players (for which numbers ARE known), and you have a top number for SWG players at it's peak. The number of current players have been calculated a number of times by counting the concurrent number of players on the servers at that server's peak time (going planet to planet). There's a simple formula for calculating how concurrent players translates into active subs (the PotBS devs have published the reverse formula a few times in recent threads on why they have the number of servers they have). The result of applying the formula is not good for SOE.
No, this is not direct evidence. It's derived evidence. It's pretty SOLID derived evidence, though.
Oh for cryin' out... listen, look up the Lucas Arts press releases for 2004. There's at least one where they quote numbers of subscriptions for SOE in total. Subtract the number of EQ1 players (for which numbers ARE known), and you have a top number for SWG players at it's peak. The number of current players have been calculated a number of times by counting the concurrent number of players on the servers at that server's peak time (going planet to planet). There's a simple formula for calculating how concurrent players translates into active subs (the PotBS devs have published the reverse formula a few times in recent threads on why they have the number of servers they have). The result of applying the formula is not good for SOE.
No, this is not direct evidence. It's derived evidence. It's pretty SOLID derived evidence, though. Linna
To add to this I'd say that I remember, as I'm sure others, when SOE publicly and proudly stated they had approximately 350K subs. I'm too busy at work atm to try to search for this information, so heres hoping someone can confirm this.
Once again you fail you include proof or facts to back up your claim, I can't move this debate forward if you can't catch-up.
Dear Jenus1,
Sooooo.... can't see the proof? Okay... well let me help you out a bit... the following are some obvious proofs, i encourage you to check them out:
1. YouTube ... use the search: "SWG Goodbye" and you should see countless ones that are related.
2. The link jestor provided is valid, and they got it through valid means. Deny it all you want.
3. Head to your own forums on SWG's web page... i guarantee theres a sizeable amount of "server needs merge" thread... thats even more proof for you that numbers are DEFINATELY not the same.
4. Go into a server and login yourself. Go to somewhere other than mos eisely, go to theed or coronet... these places used to be packed (even in jtl)... they are no any more.. wonder why.
Love,
Archeus
P.S. Check your messages...
"Do not fret! Your captain is about to enter Valhalla!" - General Beatrix of Alexandria
"The acquisition of knowledge is of use to the intellect, for nothing can be loved or hated without first being known." - Leo da Vinci
Honestly population numbers dont really matter. Either you play the Game or you choose not too. Ive logged in about 3 weeks ago on a free trial..Since ive been with SWG since Beta i can tell you its very empty on My SERVER..But do like most an make toons on those servers that are suppose to have tons of people. Tons of people in the NGE means at least 100 players..Back even in beta the population was better than any server currently have now. We had over 200 just in cnet an at least 1500 on any given night...Can any NGE server say that? 1500 active players on one server would be a miracle in the NGE. So what? You would have to be with SWG since the start too understand the numbers posted. Unofficial or not the games dead population wise if you compare it to the other two versions.
Giving out free crap has been SoE's way of saying we care. Double xp during the cu was about every puplish/screwup. Most xvets here just want the game back to a point were its not a real bad battlefront/wow clone done very poorly. Thats a matter of opinion of course...or is it?
Go enjoy the NGE its after all Star warsy-iconic an so populated now!! Its so improved vets everywere never say one negative thing about it!! That was sarcasim btw if you didnt know.... Im sure if everyone walked away they may actually listen for once an bring back the vets the right way..Bringing the game back too the point people will start paying to play again. That will never happen so who cares what its lost an how many play it?
Thanks for the great responses guys, although sadly no-one gave me any information that can be called proof or facts, it was interesting to read your opinions, Thanks for reading.
Pre-cu Fanbois, There will be no rollback. Go outside - Get a life, It's not coming back. We arn't giving you your game-back. So go outside, and realize that you've wasted 2 years. Pre-cu Fanbois.
Once again you fail you include proof or facts to back up your claim, I can't move this debate forward if you can't catch-up.
Dear Jenus1,
Sooooo.... can't see the proof? Okay... well let me help you out a bit... the following are some obvious proofs, i encourage you to check them out:
1. YouTube ... use the search: "SWG Goodbye" and you should see countless ones that are related.
2. The link jestor provided is valid, and they got it through valid means. Deny it all you want.
3. Head to your own forums on SWG's web page... i guarantee theres a sizeable amount of "server needs merge" thread... thats even more proof for you that numbers are DEFINATELY not the same.
4. Go into a server and login yourself. Go to somewhere other than mos eisely, go to theed or coronet... these places used to be packed (even in jtl)... they are no any more.. wonder why.
Love,
Archeus
P.S. Check your messages...
Hi,
I've done what you've said and sadly didn't find that many things, heres what i found
1. 1 - 20 of about 39 - Only 39? Ok, So 39 people.
2 . Unfortunately the link isn't classed as proof or fact, please research more.
3. I found a total of 13 threads asking for server merges and discussing them.
4. I went to theed and picked up a group easily, we played for a few hours and did the higher end of legacy together, it was great fun.
Sadly once again nothing you have provided is correct, please keep trying however as i do enjoy debating with people such as you.
Pre-cu Fanbois, There will be no rollback. Go outside - Get a life, It's not coming back. We arn't giving you your game-back. So go outside, and realize that you've wasted 2 years. Pre-cu Fanbois.
Thanks for the great responses guys, although sadly no-one gave me any information that can be called proof or facts, it was interesting to read your opinions, Thanks for reading.
Ok Fact #1- SWG had over 250k active user prior to april 2005..From april 2005 to nov 5th 2005 who the hell knows. Nov 2005 to present = Deserted and continues to decline monthly. Most of us had mulitple accounts an full friends list exceeding 200 folks. The day the NGE launched my friends list remained empty for over a year. Last time i logged in there were 5 from my old guild bored with wow. My guild disapeared. Still i have yet to see more than 25 to 50 people on at anyone time. That really isnt a huge deal. Again either you play or you dont...Unless you know the past game vs todays game no one but SoE will convince you other wise. All we can do is give individual accounts as we see it. Even the die hard fanbois know its no were near what it used to be in terms of playerbase or gameplay. They settled most of us didnt.
See the thing is you werent in game from start to finish an have no clue what a Heavy server was or is. Most of us have mulitple accounts accross alot of servers. All you have to do is go look for yourself. No one has to prove actual numbers to anyone. The sheer fact SoE bringing back precu an cu stuff in lesser form says lots. When a game discusses server mergers then it cant be very populated. The whole point behin server merging is too merge low populations into one large one.
Honestly why does populations past or present matter if you enjoy the current crap fest?. If its so wonderfull an populated why promote it? Why defend something thats doing so well? A game if good will be populated no matter whats posted saying otherwise.. I never understood why population in SWG was a big deal. Cause some do enjoy it..Alot do not. So why worry about what a bunch of Xplayers have to say about the game you love? When it was precu i was too busy too post opinions about SWG. Why? Was too busy having fun spending skillpoints,full groups of 20,changing templates,pvp battles lasting hours, tons of players everywere.Just to name a few things.
The best Games need no defending..See WoW its bashed regularly yet has millions enjoying that crapfest....
Once again you fail you include proof or facts to back up your claim, I can't move this debate forward if you can't catch-up.
Jenus1,
Respectfully I must ask what proof would satisfy you?
What is it exactly that you are looking for?
I think I get the strategy. It goes something like this:
SOE: don't publish subsription numbers.
Players: hey, this game is becoming deserted.
SOE advocate: prove it, show us the numbers.
Does anyone really think people can't see through this? If SOE spent half as much time fixing bugs and improving the quality of this game as some people do playing mind games, the game would be second to none.
Facts? what facts is someone going to put into a post about population in most any MMO.
Unless a development house says "oh hey after that last nerf we lost 50% of our player base!!".
If you log into a game and there are people all over (it seems very active).
If you log in and it doesn't seem active (it seems dead).
One can argue that people are in other zones (doesn't apply so much to SWG but can to an extent).
Regardless at some point.. you either accept that the game lost population (for whatever reason) or you believe that a few hundred thousand people pay a monthly fee but never log in.
Now I'm not going to say that can't happen.. I knew people in EQ1 that paid for 14 accounts of friends that quit. Just in case they came back (people worried about character deletion of inactive accounts back then).
I really don't care and does it really matter what the population is anyway? If you like a game you play it.. if you don't.. you don't. Do I miss the game I played? yes.. beyond that who cares.
But just to be somewhat on topic..
The best comment I EVER heard on a games population was from SOE. When the server merges for EQ2 were announced. The explination was along these lines..
The game world had grown so much in size.. that players couldn't find each other to group. So they had to consolidate the servers so that it was easier to find other people.
***
My thinking was.. a server has a hardcap population that it will support (more or less). If you could handle around 3,000 players and merge 2.. 2,000 player servers .. you'll have severe data base lag etc.. whether those 4,000 players can find each other easier or not.
You don't consolidate servers because they are at peak capacity. So even when SOE does have a population issue.. they never admit it.. regardless.
But honestly if you liked the game.. you'd be paying for it and playing.. regardless. (that's why to me population discussion really isn't that interesting).
You want a cold hard fact about SWG and it's population and fall? On Tatooine, go to Bestine. Go to Fort Tusken. On Naboo, go to Theed, Moenia, and the Emperor's Retreat. Corellia? Coronet. Dantooine? Lok? Dathomir? Yavin IV? Endor? Go to any spaceport. Heck, go to Restuss. Go around and see the "crowd" of people. Go to the Cantinas, Starports, Cloning Centers, Medical Centers, and Bazaars. Find a crowd yet? How about well-known, successful crafters? Know any of their shopping centers? Do they have a number of people browsing their selection? How about groups? Okay, say you get into one. Go explore or travel about in the game. How many other player groups do you come across? In all likeliness you will find very, very few. I used to be on one of the most populated servers, Ahazi. Ahazi is now a pitiful state in player population that when I visit using my Sister's account (which used to be mine), I'm STILL amazed and depressed by how far it had fallen. Back before the NGE, we had crowds of people on Ahazi. It was the same on Bria. It was the same on Chimaera. It was the same on Wanderhome. Coronet, Theed, Bestine, Mos Eisley were major hubs for player traffic. Med Centers, Cantinas, Starports, Bazaars, all had players out and about. Hunting Parties were numerous for a variety of reasons: Gaining XPs, helping a buddy get XPs, getting organic resources, working on a new Template, etc. There were ALWAYS Hunting Groups, especially on the dangerous worlds from Dantooine onwards. It wasn't surprising to find Crafters out in the middle of nowhere, tending to their Harvesters. It was also not surprising to be hired by a Crafter to be their Bodyguard while they tend to their Harvesters. Why? There was quite a number of players who completedly dedicated their gaming to Crafting and Business. They did not put an ounce into any combat skill. So they hired players to escort them as they did their runs. The main thing was that there were lots of people to interact with. And now it's gone. All gone.
Hey Jenus1, I hate quoting myself but I had to for the sake of simplicity and bringing it forward to this page again.
Let me back this up a bit more. A very good indication of activity in SWG was the Official Forums at SOE itself. Before the NGE it was really, really busy. There was a hit when the CU occured, but we were still there posting away.
The GCW forum was frantically busy. Ideas to improve the GCW, ideas to make the GCW more faithful to the Original Trilogy, Imperial vs Rebel flamewars, etc. It took effort and an interesting thread for it to stay on the front page for half a day. These days? You have the GCW with stale threads on the front page that haven't received replies for 3-4 days.
Let's get into the forums of what SOE passes for classes these days in SWG. Jedi have, since Publish 9 (long before you came into SWG Jenus1... long before), been SOE's Golden Children. The thing that was supposed to keep laying the Golden Eggs and all that. Well, same thing. Stale threads all over the front page, 2-3 days old.
Commandos (my old, favored profession before the NGE), for a while after the NGE progressed, were FOTM from what my Sister told me (yeah, I was amazed, too). Not sure if they are tops still as of Jan 2008, but their board is much slower than the GCW and Jedi boards, stale threads over 3-7 days old.
Bounty Hunters? They had always been popular, even when the BH system was borked and the rewards were so miniscule that a BH took a monetary hit if he desired to track down a Jedi player. But the true BH's were in it for the thrill of the Hunt and victory due to persistence, patience, and execution. Anyways, their forum is stale too, but more activity than Commando.
What about Crafting and Merchants? For the NGE, you got the Trader subforums, Structures, Domestic Goods, Engineering, Munitions. It is exactly how I expected, slow forum traffic in what once was a busy hub. You have very stale forums for the Trader aspect of SWG. You have threads as stale as mid-December 2007 on the front page in there.
Forum traffic isn't always one of the major ways to gauge the size of a population. LotRO for instance has lots of players that you see in-game but don't really touch the official forums. SWG however had many players in-game AND very heavy traffic in its forums. It was consistently that way until the NGE set in. The busiest forum I think in the NGE era is the Gameplay Forum. But back in the day, they were all busy, especially the GCW forum (one of my favorite stomping grounds as far as my post count was back then).
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
Facts? what facts is someone going to put into a post about population in most any MMO. Unless a development house says "oh hey after that last nerf we lost 50% of our player base!!". If you log into a game and there are people all over (it seems very active). If you log in and it doesn't seem active (it seems dead). One can argue that people are in other zones (doesn't apply so much to SWG but can to an extent). Regardless at some point.. you either accept that the game lost population (for whatever reason) or you believe that a few hundred thousand people pay a monthly fee but never log in. Now I'm not going to say that can't happen.. I knew people in EQ1 that paid for 14 accounts of friends that quit. Just in case they came back (people worried about character deletion of inactive accounts back then). I really don't care and does it really matter what the population is anyway? If you like a game you play it.. if you don't.. you don't. Do I miss the game I played? yes.. beyond that who cares. But just to be somewhat on topic.. The best comment I EVER heard on a games population was from SOE. When the server merges for EQ2 were announced. The explination was along these lines.. The game world had grown so much in size.. that players couldn't find each other to group. So they had to consolidate the servers so that it was easier to find other people. *** My thinking was.. a server has a hardcap population that it will support (more or less). If you could handle around 3,000 players and merge 2.. 2,000 player servers .. you'll have severe data base lag etc.. whether those 4,000 players can find each other easier or not. You don't consolidate servers because they are at peak capacity. So even when SOE does have a population issue.. they never admit it.. regardless. But honestly if you liked the game.. you'd be paying for it and playing.. regardless. (that's why to me population discussion really isn't that interesting).
See right now this is one of my biggest faults with SWG as a whole. The smaller servers are just dead, and SOE is just sitting on there hands going "Well we'll think of something."
Now they have talked about doing free character transfers in the past, I think they wanted to do this as merges would just be really insane thanks to Player Housing/Citys and the like. I believe they are holding back due to... A.)They are making $50 bucks when someone gets sick of being on a dead server and just puts down the money for the transfer... I can't blame them, if I was one of the higher up's seeing this make money I'd hold back on free transfers too. B.)Crafters being unable to move Resources, namely due to the whole "One metal that's rare on one server, isn't on another..." And lastly C.)Datapad items, my hold back on moving from Kauri to well any other server is, I spent 3 years working on my ships and I have alot of the items like the Pets, Speeders and Bunker House that I did pay for... No way in hell I'd want to lose any of that...
See right now that's the thing keeping me from really wanting to play this game. My main server is dead as dead can be, all the new content needs a nice big group and yes it is hard to find one at times when I can log in, and really to drop $50 bucks to move to another server and I 'may' lose 3 years of work... Not a risk I'm really willing to take...
Now maybe this is just me, and dear lord it most likely is... But see I really believe SOE needs to get off there hands and do something about this!
Once again you fail you include proof or facts to back up your claim, I can't move this debate forward if you can't catch-up.
Dear Jenus1,
Sooooo.... can't see the proof? Okay... well let me help you out a bit... the following are some obvious proofs, i encourage you to check them out:
1. YouTube ... use the search: "SWG Goodbye" and you should see countless ones that are related.
2. The link jestor provided is valid, and they got it through valid means. Deny it all you want.
3. Head to your own forums on SWG's web page... i guarantee theres a sizeable amount of "server needs merge" thread... thats even more proof for you that numbers are DEFINATELY not the same.
4. Go into a server and login yourself. Go to somewhere other than mos eisely, go to theed or coronet... these places used to be packed (even in jtl)... they are no any more.. wonder why.
Love,
Archeus
P.S. Check your messages...
Hi,
I've done what you've said and sadly didn't find that many things, heres what i found
1. 1 - 20 of about 39 - Only 39? Ok, So 39 people.
Your missing the point. Forget the actual numbers. The point is that the NGE was a big thing that made people leave... not all 100k+ people are going to know how to make a you tube video...
2 . Unfortunately the link isn't classed as proof or fact, please research more.
So your the expert? Got a PhD in site expertise? Maybe some proof? Theres a few sites with the same info on it... Heck even SoE came out with a statement recently.. ill go see if i can dig that up for ya..
3. I found a total of 13 threads asking for server merges and discussing them.
Thats not including the ones deleted... nor the ones asking for them to bring back pre-cu that have been deleted over the years... Still, just the fact that people are asking for a server merge when they didnt even need to in the past is an obvious sign that the numbers are hardly what they were in the past.
4. I went to theed and picked up a group easily, we played for a few hours and did the higher end of legacy together, it was great fun.
Screenshot please? Thank you. What server?
Sadly once again nothing you have provided is correct, please keep trying however as i do enjoy debating with people such as you.
Actually all of it is correct.. your brushing it off as false without proof, which is your right. But since you want to make it a true debate and not just a post on a forum I would like to ask you to provide us with some counter proof as words like "you are wrong" are not going to cut it anymore.
You have proof that it isnt false then post it.. heck id love to see it! In fact im begging you to post it. Pleading really.
I appreciate the fun little debate we are having its quite fun, really. I look forward to some proof in your favor.
"Do not fret! Your captain is about to enter Valhalla!" - General Beatrix of Alexandria
"The acquisition of knowledge is of use to the intellect, for nothing can be loved or hated without first being known." - Leo da Vinci
Yes please o wise one of SWG that has been playing since December show us the error of our ways. Show us that in fact 200k plus didn't walk away from the game. I played from launch til 2 months after NGE. I then came back for the Vet free periods to see if things had improved to a point that I could even stand to login without feeling dirty. Let me make this as clear as I can. YOU need to provide proof, because here's the thing I know what the population looked like on ahazi in the early days, I am well aware of what a healthy server looks like from years of experience on multiple servers(Wanderhome being my main now a complete ghost town). You however have a whopping 3 weeks of knowledge to fall back on, which in comparison makes you look foolish and ignorant in my opinion.
Lets drop the BS you are here to piss people off, why else would someone come strolling into the VET forums when you clearly don't fall into the category to start antagonizing everyone and anyone that might say something about your precious that strikes you wrong. We don't owe you proof because frankly to anyone that has played over the course of the game's life the proof is all around. I don't need SOE to tell me they lost 200k in subs to see the results of the loss. My servers are dead and I don't mean its harder to find a group I mean last time I logged in(Oct 2007 FYI) I was lucky to see more than 1 or 2 people the entire time I was online. I used to go to restus just to find someone else to play with and even that had maybe 1 guy afk spamming a message but noone on the battlefield.
If you really need evidence of a decline think about this for a moment: post NGE the next expansion was still in the works. I remember reading about the plans for what would be a new planet with areas that could be controlled through pvp and resources that the owners could claim. Now from my understanding this expansion was still being worked on til the mass exodus then talk of it vanished. I laugh when I hear a new player say when is the next expansion coming because the truth is it isn't. The game isn't even pulling in enough subs to warrant work on a expansion. Now think about this, even EQ gets regular expansions, literally one a year and that game is how old? The last I heard was restuss was basically pieces of what the expansion would include that was finished and could be implemented into the existing game.
When a game is run by a skeleton crew and "NEW" content is rehashed systems and art from the past a game isn't doing what I would consider well but thats just me I guess.
i ll nominate jenus1 for weisenheimer /smart-ass award of the year 2008 !!!
i know the year is early on but i don't expect another 15 days noob to deny the real experience of people with an active subscription right before CU and NGE fiasco, real witness of how numbers went down due to the bad quality of the gameplay after CU/ NGE patches.
here another eyewitness report, my guild sized about 100 members PRE CU dropped down to 2 active people and another 2- 3 using vet trials. According to that numbers it is a loss of 95% population. all gone due to the bad game quality after the CU and NGE patches.
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE-------------------------------------------------- $OE - eternal enemy of online gaming -We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
Once again you fail you include proof or facts to back up your claim, I can't move this debate forward if you can't catch-up.
Dear Jenus1,
Sooooo.... can't see the proof? Okay... well let me help you out a bit... the following are some obvious proofs, i encourage you to check them out:
1. YouTube ... use the search: "SWG Goodbye" and you should see countless ones that are related.
2. The link jestor provided is valid, and they got it through valid means. Deny it all you want.
3. Head to your own forums on SWG's web page... i guarantee theres a sizeable amount of "server needs merge" thread... thats even more proof for you that numbers are DEFINATELY not the same.
4. Go into a server and login yourself. Go to somewhere other than mos eisely, go to theed or coronet... these places used to be packed (even in jtl)... they are no any more.. wonder why.
Love,
Archeus
P.S. Check your messages...
Hi,
I've done what you've said and sadly didn't find that many things, heres what i found
1. 1 - 20 of about 39 - Only 39? Ok, So 39 people.
Your missing the point. Forget the actual numbers. The point is that the NGE was a big thing that made people leave... not all 100k+ people are going to know how to make a you tube video...
Missing the point? Yet it was you that directed me there, promising 'countless videos' yet when i counted them there was only 39.
2 . Unfortunately the link isn't classed as proof or fact, please research more.
So your the expert? Got a PhD in site expertise? Maybe some proof? Theres a few sites with the same info on it... Heck even SoE came out with a statement recently.. ill go see if i can dig that up for ya..
I don't want to embarrass you on this one, So i'll say 'No i don't have a PhD in 'Site expertise''
Although i do have numerous other valid qualifications that are helping me prove you wrong.
3. I found a total of 13 threads asking for server merges and discussing them.
Thats not including the ones deleted... nor the ones asking for them to bring back pre-cu that have been deleted over the years... Still, just the fact that people are asking for a server merge when they didnt even need to in the past is an obvious sign that the numbers are hardly what they were in the past.
So when you asked me to go over there and 'see the threads' you wanted me to also see the deleted ones? Please think before stating things you can't back up.
4. I went to theed and picked up a group easily, we played for a few hours and did the higher end of legacy together, it was great fun.
Screenshot please? Thank you. What server?
www.google.com & Chilastra
Sadly once again nothing you have provided is correct, please keep trying however as i do enjoy debating with people such as you.
Actually all of it is correct.. your brushing it off as false without proof, which is your right. But since you want to make it a true debate and not just a post on a forum I would like to ask you to provide us with some counter proof as words like "you are wrong" are not going to cut it anymore.
You have proof that it isnt false then post it.. heck id love to see it! In fact im begging you to post it. Pleading really.
I appreciate the fun little debate we are having its quite fun, really. I look forward to some proof in your favor.
There is no such thing as 'counter proof' to your 'proof' that doesn't exist, therefor simply stating that you have no proof is enough to make your words mean nothing.
Pre-cu Fanbois, There will be no rollback. Go outside - Get a life, It's not coming back. We arn't giving you your game-back. So go outside, and realize that you've wasted 2 years. Pre-cu Fanbois.
Once again you fail you include proof or facts to back up your claim, I can't move this debate forward if you can't catch-up.
Dear Jenus1,
Sooooo.... can't see the proof? Okay... well let me help you out a bit... the following are some obvious proofs, i encourage you to check them out:
1. YouTube ... use the search: "SWG Goodbye" and you should see countless ones that are related.
2. The link jestor provided is valid, and they got it through valid means. Deny it all you want.
3. Head to your own forums on SWG's web page... i guarantee theres a sizeable amount of "server needs merge" thread... thats even more proof for you that numbers are DEFINATELY not the same.
4. Go into a server and login yourself. Go to somewhere other than mos eisely, go to theed or coronet... these places used to be packed (even in jtl)... they are no any more.. wonder why.
Love,
Archeus
P.S. Check your messages...
Hi,
I've done what you've said and sadly didn't find that many things, heres what i found
1. 1 - 20 of about 39 - Only 39? Ok, So 39 people.
Your missing the point. Forget the actual numbers. The point is that the NGE was a big thing that made people leave... not all 100k+ people are going to know how to make a you tube video...
Missing the point? Yet it was you that directed me there, promising 'countless videos' yet when i counted them there was only 39.
2 . Unfortunately the link isn't classed as proof or fact, please research more.
So your the expert? Got a PhD in site expertise? Maybe some proof? Theres a few sites with the same info on it... Heck even SoE came out with a statement recently.. ill go see if i can dig that up for ya..
I don't want to embarrass you on this one, So i'll say 'No i don't have a PhD in 'Site expertise''
Although i do have numerous other valid qualifications that are helping me prove you wrong.
3. I found a total of 13 threads asking for server merges and discussing them.
Thats not including the ones deleted... nor the ones asking for them to bring back pre-cu that have been deleted over the years... Still, just the fact that people are asking for a server merge when they didnt even need to in the past is an obvious sign that the numbers are hardly what they were in the past.
So when you asked me to go over there and 'see the threads' you wanted me to also see the deleted ones? Please think before stating things you can't back up.
4. I went to theed and picked up a group easily, we played for a few hours and did the higher end of legacy together, it was great fun.
Screenshot please? Thank you. What server?
www.google.com & Chilastra
Sadly once again nothing you have provided is correct, please keep trying however as i do enjoy debating with people such as you.
Actually all of it is correct.. your brushing it off as false without proof, which is your right. But since you want to make it a true debate and not just a post on a forum I would like to ask you to provide us with some counter proof as words like "you are wrong" are not going to cut it anymore.
You have proof that it isnt false then post it.. heck id love to see it! In fact im begging you to post it. Pleading really.
I appreciate the fun little debate we are having its quite fun, really. I look forward to some proof in your favor.
There is no such thing as 'counter proof' to your 'proof' that doesn't exist, therefor simply stating that you have no proof is enough to make your words mean nothing.
Mr. you ignore the experience of 300k people having an active subscription during 2005. You don't have that and we vets have and what is the difference about your meaningless words and our experience.
resume your logic
you : Give me proof about CU/NGE causing mass exodus
WE VETS : $OE denies to publish exact numbers thats why we refer to third party service x (mmogdata)
you : thats not a proof
WE : you have a counter proof ?
you : no , but your proof is meaningless
WE : Our experience (active subscriptions during 2005, the year this messy CU / NGE occured on the servers) justify our claim - coincident with the third-party numbers - be true.
ME : if you not provide any proof that shows our experience wrong you words are meaningless and because you persisting on them you trolling this thread obviously.
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE-------------------------------------------------- $OE - eternal enemy of online gaming -We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
Originally posted by ArcAngel3 I think I get the strategy. It goes something like this:
SOE: don't publish subsription numbers. Players: hey, this game is becoming deserted. SOE advocate: prove it, show us the numbers.
Does anyone really think people can't see through this? If SOE spent half as much time fixing bugs and improving the quality of this game as some people do playing mind games, the game would be second to none.
I think I get the strategy. It goes something like this:
SOE: don't publish subsription numbers.
Players: hey, this game is becoming deserted.
SOE advocate: prove it, show us the numbers.
Does anyone really think people can't see through this? If SOE spent half as much time fixing bugs and improving the quality of this game as some people do playing mind games, the game would be second to none.
Jenus1, is this true? :O
You really do have to wonder.
Does SOE announce subs on any of their MMO's? If not do they announce how many Station pass subs they have?
I've done what you've said and sadly didn't find that many things, heres what i found
1. 1 - 20 of about 39 - Only 39? Ok, So 39 people. Your missing the point. Forget the actual numbers. The point is that the NGE was a big thing that made people leave... not all 100k+ people are going to know how to make a you tube video...
Missing the point? Yet it was you that directed me there, promising 'countless videos' yet when i counted them there was only 39. Still missing the point... the point is that clearly the NGE was such a big fiasco that some people had to make a video saying goodbye and "damn you sony" etc etc etc. numbers mean nothing... ITS THE ACT! ... like i said above not everyone knows how to make a video. But the ones that could made it clear something happened that day.
2 . Unfortunately the link isn't classed as proof or fact, please research more. So your the expert? Got a PhD in site expertise? Maybe some proof? Theres a few sites with the same info on it... Heck even SoE came out with a statement recently.. ill go see if i can dig that up for ya..
I don't want to embarrass you on this one, So i'll say 'No i don't have a PhD in 'Site expertise''
Although i do have numerous other valid qualifications that are helping me prove you wrong. Sure, embarrass me! Id love to see those valid qualifications and proofs! Otherwise your words are meaningless in a debate, right? ^^ Im still waiting! Got something to prove that site is wrong? Again sir, ID LOVE TO SEE THEM. IM BEGGING.
3. I found a total of 13 threads asking for server merges and discussing them. Thats not including the ones deleted... nor the ones asking for them to bring back pre-cu that have been deleted over the years... Still, just the fact that people are asking for a server merge when they didnt even need to in the past is an obvious sign that the numbers are hardly what they were in the past.
So when you asked me to go over there and 'see the threads' you wanted me to also see the deleted ones? Please think before stating things you can't back up. Nope, not the deleted ones. That was just a side fact to let you know.... Anyway.. you said so yourself that there was 13. It doesn't take a rocket scientist (at least im sure it doesn't) to know that there were no threads back in pre cu days asking for server merges, And today they get a new post or two every day. Ask anyone here.
4. I went to theed and picked up a group easily, we played for a few hours and did the higher end of legacy together, it was great fun. Screenshot please? Thank you. What server?
www.google.com & Chilastra Photobucket please? Sorry the above "proof" can ALSO bring pictures of the past (pre-cu). Which would kinda give me more proof.. Still.. wheres your solid proof? I wanted you to photobucket something so i could see those "near pre-cu" numbers in theed. Wont take you more than 5 minites.. i promise. BTW guild line-up pictures don't count.
There is no such thing as 'counter proof' to your 'proof' that doesn't exist, therefor simply stating that you have no proof is enough to make your words mean nothing.
Really, so if you cant dig up real proof that the numbers, posts, videos, etc (the ones you say don't exist yet you stated you saw them) are wrong... then.. you have lost the debate.. and i claim victory...
I'll be nice though.. I'll wait a bit longer for you to bring up said proof. I really love debating people
To get back on the subject a bit: Yeah that experience chip was lame... just a thing to try and get people to come back. Which.. would be more proof i suppose. They never had to rely on those gimicks back then.
"Do not fret! Your captain is about to enter Valhalla!" - General Beatrix of Alexandria
"The acquisition of knowledge is of use to the intellect, for nothing can be loved or hated without first being known." - Leo da Vinci
I think I get the strategy. It goes something like this:
SOE: don't publish subsription numbers.
Players: hey, this game is becoming deserted.
SOE advocate: prove it, show us the numbers.
Does anyone really think people can't see through this? If SOE spent half as much time fixing bugs and improving the quality of this game as some people do playing mind games, the game would be second to none.
Jenus1, is this true? :O
You really do have to wonder.
Does SOE announce subs on any of their MMO's? If not do they announce how many Station pass subs they have?
I believe they announced how many station user they had instead of a certian games actual numbers..... I believe it was recently too. Ill go try and dig that up for you...
"Do not fret! Your captain is about to enter Valhalla!" - General Beatrix of Alexandria
"The acquisition of knowledge is of use to the intellect, for nothing can be loved or hated without first being known." - Leo da Vinci
You know , there is just so many times that one can be called out , I am get a little tried of Pro - NGE posters ( most recently Jenus1) poking a stick at us veterans and any attempt to defend ourselves are meet with Post deletes and Bans. If any Pro NGEr wants to play ball with me come on over to my Play ground - The Rodo Repot. There I will be glad to give you a piece of my mind - Come on over , I speak your name.
Comments
Once again you fail you include proof or facts to back up your claim, I can't move this debate forward if you can't catch-up.
what claim did I make that requires proof? lol
Jenus1,
Respectfully I must ask what proof would satisfy you?
What is it exactly that you are looking for?
He seemed so confident i didn't think he was lying and making it up without any proof.
ok, so you assumed. Your mistake. If you had much more than a couple weeks of experience with swg you would not have made that mistake.
thanks for reading.
Oh for cryin' out... listen, look up the Lucas Arts press releases for 2004. There's at least one where they quote numbers of subscriptions for SOE in total. Subtract the number of EQ1 players (for which numbers ARE known), and you have a top number for SWG players at it's peak. The number of current players have been calculated a number of times by counting the concurrent number of players on the servers at that server's peak time (going planet to planet). There's a simple formula for calculating how concurrent players translates into active subs (the PotBS devs have published the reverse formula a few times in recent threads on why they have the number of servers they have). The result of applying the formula is not good for SOE.Luckily I didn't assume for long, i requested proof which he couldn't deliver, luckily i uncovered the full story, there is no proof. From 2003-2006 I was serving my country in Iraq, therefore i couldn't play SWG, i had more important things to do, such as keep my squad alive.
Thanks for reading.
No, this is not direct evidence. It's derived evidence. It's pretty SOLID derived evidence, though.
Linna
To add to this I'd say that I remember, as I'm sure others, when SOE publicly and proudly stated they had approximately 350K subs. I'm too busy at work atm to try to search for this information, so heres hoping someone can confirm this.
Dear Jenus1,
Sooooo.... can't see the proof? Okay... well let me help you out a bit... the following are some obvious proofs, i encourage you to check them out:
1. YouTube ... use the search: "SWG Goodbye" and you should see countless ones that are related.
2. The link jestor provided is valid, and they got it through valid means. Deny it all you want.
3. Head to your own forums on SWG's web page... i guarantee theres a sizeable amount of "server needs merge" thread... thats even more proof for you that numbers are DEFINATELY not the same.
4. Go into a server and login yourself. Go to somewhere other than mos eisely, go to theed or coronet... these places used to be packed (even in jtl)... they are no any more.. wonder why.
Love,
Archeus
P.S. Check your messages...
"Do not fret! Your captain is about to enter Valhalla!" - General Beatrix of Alexandria
"The acquisition of knowledge is of use to the intellect, for nothing can be loved or hated without first being known." - Leo da Vinci
Honestly population numbers dont really matter. Either you play the Game or you choose not too. Ive logged in about 3 weeks ago on a free trial..Since ive been with SWG since Beta i can tell you its very empty on My SERVER..But do like most an make toons on those servers that are suppose to have tons of people. Tons of people in the NGE means at least 100 players..Back even in beta the population was better than any server currently have now. We had over 200 just in cnet an at least 1500 on any given night...Can any NGE server say that? 1500 active players on one server would be a miracle in the NGE. So what? You would have to be with SWG since the start too understand the numbers posted. Unofficial or not the games dead population wise if you compare it to the other two versions.
Giving out free crap has been SoE's way of saying we care. Double xp during the cu was about every puplish/screwup. Most xvets here just want the game back to a point were its not a real bad battlefront/wow clone done very poorly. Thats a matter of opinion of course...or is it?
Go enjoy the NGE its after all Star warsy-iconic an so populated now!! Its so improved vets everywere never say one negative thing about it!! That was sarcasim btw if you didnt know.... Im sure if everyone walked away they may actually listen for once an bring back the vets the right way..Bringing the game back too the point people will start paying to play again. That will never happen so who cares what its lost an how many play it?
Thanks for the great responses guys, although sadly no-one gave me any information that can be called proof or facts, it was interesting to read your opinions, Thanks for reading.
Pre-cu Fanbois,
There will be no rollback.
Go outside - Get a life,
It's not coming back.
We arn't giving you your game-back.
So go outside, and realize that you've wasted 2 years.
Pre-cu Fanbois.
Dear Jenus1,
Sooooo.... can't see the proof? Okay... well let me help you out a bit... the following are some obvious proofs, i encourage you to check them out:
1. YouTube ... use the search: "SWG Goodbye" and you should see countless ones that are related.
2. The link jestor provided is valid, and they got it through valid means. Deny it all you want.
3. Head to your own forums on SWG's web page... i guarantee theres a sizeable amount of "server needs merge" thread... thats even more proof for you that numbers are DEFINATELY not the same.
4. Go into a server and login yourself. Go to somewhere other than mos eisely, go to theed or coronet... these places used to be packed (even in jtl)... they are no any more.. wonder why.
Love,
Archeus
P.S. Check your messages...
Hi,
I've done what you've said and sadly didn't find that many things, heres what i found
2 . Unfortunately the link isn't classed as proof or fact, please research more.
3. I found a total of 13 threads asking for server merges and discussing them.
4. I went to theed and picked up a group easily, we played for a few hours and did the higher end of legacy together, it was great fun.
Sadly once again nothing you have provided is correct, please keep trying however as i do enjoy debating with people such as you.
Pre-cu Fanbois,
There will be no rollback.
Go outside - Get a life,
It's not coming back.
We arn't giving you your game-back.
So go outside, and realize that you've wasted 2 years.
Pre-cu Fanbois.
Looks like the "9 iconic Star Wars Professions" thing isn't working out for them, what a tragedy
See the thing is you werent in game from start to finish an have no clue what a Heavy server was or is. Most of us have mulitple accounts accross alot of servers. All you have to do is go look for yourself. No one has to prove actual numbers to anyone. The sheer fact SoE bringing back precu an cu stuff in lesser form says lots. When a game discusses server mergers then it cant be very populated. The whole point behin server merging is too merge low populations into one large one.
Honestly why does populations past or present matter if you enjoy the current crap fest?. If its so wonderfull an populated why promote it? Why defend something thats doing so well? A game if good will be populated no matter whats posted saying otherwise.. I never understood why population in SWG was a big deal. Cause some do enjoy it..Alot do not. So why worry about what a bunch of Xplayers have to say about the game you love? When it was precu i was too busy too post opinions about SWG. Why? Was too busy having fun spending skillpoints,full groups of 20,changing templates,pvp battles lasting hours, tons of players everywere.Just to name a few things.
The best Games need no defending..See WoW its bashed regularly yet has millions enjoying that crapfest....
Jenus1,
Respectfully I must ask what proof would satisfy you?
What is it exactly that you are looking for?
I think I get the strategy. It goes something like this:
SOE: don't publish subsription numbers.
Players: hey, this game is becoming deserted.
SOE advocate: prove it, show us the numbers.
Does anyone really think people can't see through this? If SOE spent half as much time fixing bugs and improving the quality of this game as some people do playing mind games, the game would be second to none.
Facts? what facts is someone going to put into a post about population in most any MMO.
Unless a development house says "oh hey after that last nerf we lost 50% of our player base!!".
If you log into a game and there are people all over (it seems very active).
If you log in and it doesn't seem active (it seems dead).
One can argue that people are in other zones (doesn't apply so much to SWG but can to an extent).
Regardless at some point.. you either accept that the game lost population (for whatever reason) or you believe that a few hundred thousand people pay a monthly fee but never log in.
Now I'm not going to say that can't happen.. I knew people in EQ1 that paid for 14 accounts of friends that quit. Just in case they came back (people worried about character deletion of inactive accounts back then).
I really don't care and does it really matter what the population is anyway? If you like a game you play it.. if you don't.. you don't. Do I miss the game I played? yes.. beyond that who cares.
But just to be somewhat on topic..
The best comment I EVER heard on a games population was from SOE. When the server merges for EQ2 were announced. The explination was along these lines..
The game world had grown so much in size.. that players couldn't find each other to group. So they had to consolidate the servers so that it was easier to find other people.
***
My thinking was.. a server has a hardcap population that it will support (more or less). If you could handle around 3,000 players and merge 2.. 2,000 player servers .. you'll have severe data base lag etc.. whether those 4,000 players can find each other easier or not.
You don't consolidate servers because they are at peak capacity. So even when SOE does have a population issue.. they never admit it.. regardless.
But honestly if you liked the game.. you'd be paying for it and playing.. regardless. (that's why to me population discussion really isn't that interesting).
Hey Jenus1, I hate quoting myself but I had to for the sake of simplicity and bringing it forward to this page again.
Let me back this up a bit more. A very good indication of activity in SWG was the Official Forums at SOE itself. Before the NGE it was really, really busy. There was a hit when the CU occured, but we were still there posting away.
The GCW forum was frantically busy. Ideas to improve the GCW, ideas to make the GCW more faithful to the Original Trilogy, Imperial vs Rebel flamewars, etc. It took effort and an interesting thread for it to stay on the front page for half a day. These days? You have the GCW with stale threads on the front page that haven't received replies for 3-4 days.
Let's get into the forums of what SOE passes for classes these days in SWG. Jedi have, since Publish 9 (long before you came into SWG Jenus1... long before), been SOE's Golden Children. The thing that was supposed to keep laying the Golden Eggs and all that. Well, same thing. Stale threads all over the front page, 2-3 days old.
Commandos (my old, favored profession before the NGE), for a while after the NGE progressed, were FOTM from what my Sister told me (yeah, I was amazed, too). Not sure if they are tops still as of Jan 2008, but their board is much slower than the GCW and Jedi boards, stale threads over 3-7 days old.
Bounty Hunters? They had always been popular, even when the BH system was borked and the rewards were so miniscule that a BH took a monetary hit if he desired to track down a Jedi player. But the true BH's were in it for the thrill of the Hunt and victory due to persistence, patience, and execution. Anyways, their forum is stale too, but more activity than Commando.
What about Crafting and Merchants? For the NGE, you got the Trader subforums, Structures, Domestic Goods, Engineering, Munitions. It is exactly how I expected, slow forum traffic in what once was a busy hub. You have very stale forums for the Trader aspect of SWG. You have threads as stale as mid-December 2007 on the front page in there.
Forum traffic isn't always one of the major ways to gauge the size of a population. LotRO for instance has lots of players that you see in-game but don't really touch the official forums. SWG however had many players in-game AND very heavy traffic in its forums. It was consistently that way until the NGE set in. The busiest forum I think in the NGE era is the Gameplay Forum. But back in the day, they were all busy, especially the GCW forum (one of my favorite stomping grounds as far as my post count was back then).
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
Now they have talked about doing free character transfers in the past, I think they wanted to do this as merges would just be really insane thanks to Player Housing/Citys and the like. I believe they are holding back due to... A.)They are making $50 bucks when someone gets sick of being on a dead server and just puts down the money for the transfer... I can't blame them, if I was one of the higher up's seeing this make money I'd hold back on free transfers too. B.)Crafters being unable to move Resources, namely due to the whole "One metal that's rare on one server, isn't on another..." And lastly C.)Datapad items, my hold back on moving from Kauri to well any other server is, I spent 3 years working on my ships and I have alot of the items like the Pets, Speeders and Bunker House that I did pay for... No way in hell I'd want to lose any of that...
See right now that's the thing keeping me from really wanting to play this game. My main server is dead as dead can be, all the new content needs a nice big group and yes it is hard to find one at times when I can log in, and really to drop $50 bucks to move to another server and I 'may' lose 3 years of work... Not a risk I'm really willing to take...
Now maybe this is just me, and dear lord it most likely is... But see I really believe SOE needs to get off there hands and do something about this!
Dear Jenus1,
Sooooo.... can't see the proof? Okay... well let me help you out a bit... the following are some obvious proofs, i encourage you to check them out:
1. YouTube ... use the search: "SWG Goodbye" and you should see countless ones that are related.
2. The link jestor provided is valid, and they got it through valid means. Deny it all you want.
3. Head to your own forums on SWG's web page... i guarantee theres a sizeable amount of "server needs merge" thread... thats even more proof for you that numbers are DEFINATELY not the same.
4. Go into a server and login yourself. Go to somewhere other than mos eisely, go to theed or coronet... these places used to be packed (even in jtl)... they are no any more.. wonder why.
Love,
Archeus
P.S. Check your messages...
Hi,
I've done what you've said and sadly didn't find that many things, heres what i found
1. 1 - 20 of about 39 - Only 39? Ok, So 39 people.
Your missing the point. Forget the actual numbers. The point is that the NGE was a big thing that made people leave... not all 100k+ people are going to know how to make a you tube video...
2 . Unfortunately the link isn't classed as proof or fact, please research more.
So your the expert? Got a PhD in site expertise? Maybe some proof? Theres a few sites with the same info on it... Heck even SoE came out with a statement recently.. ill go see if i can dig that up for ya..
3. I found a total of 13 threads asking for server merges and discussing them.
Thats not including the ones deleted... nor the ones asking for them to bring back pre-cu that have been deleted over the years... Still, just the fact that people are asking for a server merge when they didnt even need to in the past is an obvious sign that the numbers are hardly what they were in the past.
4. I went to theed and picked up a group easily, we played for a few hours and did the higher end of legacy together, it was great fun.
Screenshot please? Thank you. What server?
Sadly once again nothing you have provided is correct, please keep trying however as i do enjoy debating with people such as you.
Actually all of it is correct.. your brushing it off as false without proof, which is your right. But since you want to make it a true debate and not just a post on a forum I would like to ask you to provide us with some counter proof as words like "you are wrong" are not going to cut it anymore.
You have proof that it isnt false then post it.. heck id love to see it! In fact im begging you to post it. Pleading really.
I appreciate the fun little debate we are having its quite fun, really.
I look forward to some proof in your favor.
"Do not fret! Your captain is about to enter Valhalla!" - General Beatrix of Alexandria
"The acquisition of knowledge is of use to the intellect, for nothing can be loved or hated without first being known." - Leo da Vinci
Yes please o wise one of SWG that has been playing since December show us the error of our ways. Show us that in fact 200k plus didn't walk away from the game. I played from launch til 2 months after NGE. I then came back for the Vet free periods to see if things had improved to a point that I could even stand to login without feeling dirty. Let me make this as clear as I can. YOU need to provide proof, because here's the thing I know what the population looked like on ahazi in the early days, I am well aware of what a healthy server looks like from years of experience on multiple servers(Wanderhome being my main now a complete ghost town). You however have a whopping 3 weeks of knowledge to fall back on, which in comparison makes you look foolish and ignorant in my opinion.
Lets drop the BS you are here to piss people off, why else would someone come strolling into the VET forums when you clearly don't fall into the category to start antagonizing everyone and anyone that might say something about your precious that strikes you wrong. We don't owe you proof because frankly to anyone that has played over the course of the game's life the proof is all around. I don't need SOE to tell me they lost 200k in subs to see the results of the loss. My servers are dead and I don't mean its harder to find a group I mean last time I logged in(Oct 2007 FYI) I was lucky to see more than 1 or 2 people the entire time I was online. I used to go to restus just to find someone else to play with and even that had maybe 1 guy afk spamming a message but noone on the battlefield.
If you really need evidence of a decline think about this for a moment: post NGE the next expansion was still in the works. I remember reading about the plans for what would be a new planet with areas that could be controlled through pvp and resources that the owners could claim. Now from my understanding this expansion was still being worked on til the mass exodus then talk of it vanished. I laugh when I hear a new player say when is the next expansion coming because the truth is it isn't. The game isn't even pulling in enough subs to warrant work on a expansion. Now think about this, even EQ gets regular expansions, literally one a year and that game is how old? The last I heard was restuss was basically pieces of what the expansion would include that was finished and could be implemented into the existing game.
When a game is run by a skeleton crew and "NEW" content is rehashed systems and art from the past a game isn't doing what I would consider well but thats just me I guess.
SWG refuge and proud of it.
/rant off
i ll nominate jenus1 for weisenheimer /smart-ass award of the year 2008 !!!
i know the year is early on but i don't expect another 15 days noob to deny the real experience of people with an active subscription right before CU and NGE fiasco, real witness of how numbers went down due to the bad quality of the gameplay after CU/ NGE patches.
here another eyewitness report, my guild sized about 100 members PRE CU dropped down to 2 active people and another 2- 3 using vet trials. According to that numbers it is a loss of 95% population. all gone due to the bad game quality after the CU and NGE patches.
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
$OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
-We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
Dear Jenus1,
Sooooo.... can't see the proof? Okay... well let me help you out a bit... the following are some obvious proofs, i encourage you to check them out:
1. YouTube ... use the search: "SWG Goodbye" and you should see countless ones that are related.
2. The link jestor provided is valid, and they got it through valid means. Deny it all you want.
3. Head to your own forums on SWG's web page... i guarantee theres a sizeable amount of "server needs merge" thread... thats even more proof for you that numbers are DEFINATELY not the same.
4. Go into a server and login yourself. Go to somewhere other than mos eisely, go to theed or coronet... these places used to be packed (even in jtl)... they are no any more.. wonder why.
Love,
Archeus
P.S. Check your messages...
Hi,
I've done what you've said and sadly didn't find that many things, heres what i found
1. 1 - 20 of about 39 - Only 39? Ok, So 39 people.
Your missing the point. Forget the actual numbers. The point is that the NGE was a big thing that made people leave... not all 100k+ people are going to know how to make a you tube video...
Missing the point? Yet it was you that directed me there, promising 'countless videos' yet when i counted them there was only 39.
2 . Unfortunately the link isn't classed as proof or fact, please research more.
So your the expert? Got a PhD in site expertise? Maybe some proof? Theres a few sites with the same info on it... Heck even SoE came out with a statement recently.. ill go see if i can dig that up for ya..
I don't want to embarrass you on this one, So i'll say 'No i don't have a PhD in 'Site expertise''
Although i do have numerous other valid qualifications that are helping me prove you wrong.
3. I found a total of 13 threads asking for server merges and discussing them.
Thats not including the ones deleted... nor the ones asking for them to bring back pre-cu that have been deleted over the years... Still, just the fact that people are asking for a server merge when they didnt even need to in the past is an obvious sign that the numbers are hardly what they were in the past.
So when you asked me to go over there and 'see the threads' you wanted me to also see the deleted ones? Please think before stating things you can't back up.
4. I went to theed and picked up a group easily, we played for a few hours and did the higher end of legacy together, it was great fun.
Screenshot please? Thank you. What server?
www.google.com & Chilastra
Sadly once again nothing you have provided is correct, please keep trying however as i do enjoy debating with people such as you.
Actually all of it is correct.. your brushing it off as false without proof, which is your right. But since you want to make it a true debate and not just a post on a forum I would like to ask you to provide us with some counter proof as words like "you are wrong" are not going to cut it anymore.
You have proof that it isnt false then post it.. heck id love to see it! In fact im begging you to post it. Pleading really.
I appreciate the fun little debate we are having its quite fun, really.
I look forward to some proof in your favor.
There is no such thing as 'counter proof' to your 'proof' that doesn't exist, therefor simply stating that you have no proof is enough to make your words mean nothing.
Pre-cu Fanbois,
There will be no rollback.
Go outside - Get a life,
It's not coming back.
We arn't giving you your game-back.
So go outside, and realize that you've wasted 2 years.
Pre-cu Fanbois.
Dear Jenus1,
Sooooo.... can't see the proof? Okay... well let me help you out a bit... the following are some obvious proofs, i encourage you to check them out:
1. YouTube ... use the search: "SWG Goodbye" and you should see countless ones that are related.
2. The link jestor provided is valid, and they got it through valid means. Deny it all you want.
3. Head to your own forums on SWG's web page... i guarantee theres a sizeable amount of "server needs merge" thread... thats even more proof for you that numbers are DEFINATELY not the same.
4. Go into a server and login yourself. Go to somewhere other than mos eisely, go to theed or coronet... these places used to be packed (even in jtl)... they are no any more.. wonder why.
Love,
Archeus
P.S. Check your messages...
Hi,
I've done what you've said and sadly didn't find that many things, heres what i found
1. 1 - 20 of about 39 - Only 39? Ok, So 39 people.
Your missing the point. Forget the actual numbers. The point is that the NGE was a big thing that made people leave... not all 100k+ people are going to know how to make a you tube video...
Missing the point? Yet it was you that directed me there, promising 'countless videos' yet when i counted them there was only 39.
2 . Unfortunately the link isn't classed as proof or fact, please research more.
So your the expert? Got a PhD in site expertise? Maybe some proof? Theres a few sites with the same info on it... Heck even SoE came out with a statement recently.. ill go see if i can dig that up for ya..
I don't want to embarrass you on this one, So i'll say 'No i don't have a PhD in 'Site expertise''
Although i do have numerous other valid qualifications that are helping me prove you wrong.
3. I found a total of 13 threads asking for server merges and discussing them.
Thats not including the ones deleted... nor the ones asking for them to bring back pre-cu that have been deleted over the years... Still, just the fact that people are asking for a server merge when they didnt even need to in the past is an obvious sign that the numbers are hardly what they were in the past.
So when you asked me to go over there and 'see the threads' you wanted me to also see the deleted ones? Please think before stating things you can't back up.
4. I went to theed and picked up a group easily, we played for a few hours and did the higher end of legacy together, it was great fun.
Screenshot please? Thank you. What server?
www.google.com & Chilastra
Sadly once again nothing you have provided is correct, please keep trying however as i do enjoy debating with people such as you.
Actually all of it is correct.. your brushing it off as false without proof, which is your right. But since you want to make it a true debate and not just a post on a forum I would like to ask you to provide us with some counter proof as words like "you are wrong" are not going to cut it anymore.
You have proof that it isnt false then post it.. heck id love to see it! In fact im begging you to post it. Pleading really.
I appreciate the fun little debate we are having its quite fun, really.
I look forward to some proof in your favor.
There is no such thing as 'counter proof' to your 'proof' that doesn't exist, therefor simply stating that you have no proof is enough to make your words mean nothing.
Mr. you ignore the experience of 300k people having an active subscription during 2005. You don't have that and we vets have and what is the difference about your meaningless words and our experience.
resume your logic
you : Give me proof about CU/NGE causing mass exodus
WE VETS : $OE denies to publish exact numbers thats why we refer to third party service x (mmogdata)
you : thats not a proof
WE : you have a counter proof ?
you : no , but your proof is meaningless
WE : Our experience (active subscriptions during 2005, the year this messy CU / NGE occured on the servers) justify our claim - coincident with the third-party numbers - be true.
ME : if you not provide any proof that shows our experience wrong you words are meaningless and because you persisting on them you trolling this thread obviously.
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
$OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
-We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
Jenus1, is this true? :O
Jenus1, is this true? :O
You really do have to wonder.
Does SOE announce subs on any of their MMO's? If not do they announce how many Station pass subs they have?
There is no such thing as 'counter proof' to your 'proof' that doesn't exist, therefor simply stating that you have no proof is enough to make your words mean nothing.Really, so if you cant dig up real proof that the numbers, posts, videos, etc (the ones you say don't exist yet you stated you saw them) are wrong... then.. you have lost the debate.. and i claim victory...
I'll be nice though.. I'll wait a bit longer for you to bring up said proof. I really love debating people
To get back on the subject a bit: Yeah that experience chip was lame... just a thing to try and get people to come back. Which.. would be more proof i suppose. They never had to rely on those gimicks back then.
"Do not fret! Your captain is about to enter Valhalla!" - General Beatrix of Alexandria
"The acquisition of knowledge is of use to the intellect, for nothing can be loved or hated without first being known." - Leo da Vinci
Jenus1, is this true? :O
You really do have to wonder.
Does SOE announce subs on any of their MMO's? If not do they announce how many Station pass subs they have?
I believe they announced how many station user they had instead of a certian games actual numbers..... I believe it was recently too. Ill go try and dig that up for you...
"Do not fret! Your captain is about to enter Valhalla!" - General Beatrix of Alexandria
"The acquisition of knowledge is of use to the intellect, for nothing can be loved or hated without first being known." - Leo da Vinci
But actually, that's just what you're doing.
Guess there happened to be a big fat pothole on that high road you apparently thought you took huh?
You know , there is just so many times that one can be called out , I am get a little tried of Pro - NGE posters ( most recently Jenus1) poking a stick at us veterans and any attempt to defend ourselves are meet with Post deletes and Bans. If any Pro NGEr wants to play ball with me come on over to my Play ground - The Rodo Repot. There I will be glad to give you a piece of my mind - Come on over , I speak your name.
Unaware of the Jestor?
http://about.me/JestorRodo/
Friends enjoy his classic Vblog - https://www.facebook.com/GoodOldReliableNathan