The SOE hatred just has to stop..

swede2 · February 2008

Originally posted by Daffid011

-Some things just didn't need to be "rescued" as you put it. Seeing the hideous launch of Vanguard will surely turn off people who even think about investing venture capital in MMOs, because of the huge negative attention this game created. It should have just died quietly. Also ask the couple of hundred thousand people who bought the game and quit shortly after how glad they are it was "rescued".

Sorry Daffid011 but Sigil was more than up front about releasing vanguard because they ran out of money to finish it , They didnt try and hide anything , they had a open beta and said this is the game we have right now If you or anyone else went out and bought it thats your own fault so dont blame it on anyone but yourself

Personally ive been playing since day 1 and its by far the best MMO out there right now , and after looking at all the video's of the next 2 over hyped mmo's that are coming out it will remain so for a while

The only negative attension the game recieved was from all you Pre CU SWG , sony haters that thought oh great i finally i have a chance to get back at sony

Vrika · February 2008

Originally posted by summitus
Well your entitled to your opinion.

Everyone is entitled to opinion. If you realize that what others say about the games is mostly their opinion, it's good.

Next, you should realize that "The SOE hatred just has to stop", and "THere is nothing wrong with most of SOE's games SWG being the exeption" are only your opinions. There are really many people in here with opposite opinions, and their opinions are as good as yours unless you have some really good facts or proofs to back up your opinions.

baff · February 2008

Mass SOE hate didn't occour by accident.

Too many people from too many different games have all come to the same conclusion.

They should sack everyone and start again with new staff under a different brandname.

I agree that many of the things wrong with SOE games are not SOE's fault. SOE didn't ruin MAtrix or Vanguard, quite the opposite. On the other hand SOE did ruin Planetside and SWG. They absolutely don't listen to their paying customers in a service industry, they do treat them with total disrespect make bad decisions and Smedley wastes our valuable money on sending thousands of doughnuts to his friends at Penny Arcade when he could be spending it on game fixes.

SOE sucks. It's attitude is wrong. Blizzard is about making the greatest gaming experience it can for it's gamers. SOE is about Smedley and his mates being really smart and well paid.

Vrika · February 2008

Originally posted by summitus

Originally posted by Vrika

SOE also has a habit of publishing so many expansions, and trying to get players to buy extra monthly fee for things like character slots, station player services, etc. That playing one of their games costs easily much more than what the game's monthly fee is.

All games release expansions some more than others. You can purchase EQ 2 and all its Expansions now for about $40 so whats wrong with that

I was talking about the expansions someone playing the game actively has to purchase to enjoy the games new content, and pay of them in addition to monthly fees he already pays to play. The box cost of the game and all it's expansions now is irrelevant.

Comparing diffirent MMOs, player playing Blizzard's World of Warcraft since release has had to purchase only 1 expanision, whereas in same time player playing SOE's Everquest 2 has had to purchase 4 expanions and 3 adventure packs, and player playing Square Enix's FFXI has had to purchase 2 expansions (2 expansions since the time WoW was released, FFXI is older game and it has total of 4 expansions.

So, for their most important game SOE has released expansions players have to pay for 4 times as fast as Blizzard, 2 times as fast as Square Enix, and in addition to that they have made 3 content pack wich players also have to pay for. For someone playing EQ2 actively, it's quite a high price to buy all the content they put out in addition to constantly paying monthly fee.

Burntvet · February 2008

$OE and $med have EARNED every bit of their terrible reputation and it is NOT because of a single incident or a single business practice.

The mistake you so blithely dismiss as SWG, to which part are you referring? The NGE that destroyed the game/professions/time investment most people had? The expansion that promised all sorts of features and character enhancements only to have all the promised enhancements removed by the NGE right after the expansion was billed? The refusal to refund the remain portions of year long subscriptions after such a huge game change? The terrible, untested, bug-filled mess that was pushed to live servers over the vocal objections of players/testers? The terrible customer service? The top down business attitude that the customer is wrong, deserves no respect, and will play whatever they are given and should like it? The fact that SOE came out and said that they didn't care anything about their existing playerbase at the time of the NGE? Is that what you mean?

That should be easily forgotten/forgiven after a couple backhanded, half hearted apologies from $med and lackeys with no concrete corrective steps (classic servers) or any form of recompense (free play time to existing customers)? Talk is cheap, especially at $OE. They have NEVER made any concession to anyone that cost them money to do, aside from the much documented PR tour for a few of the SWG boycotters.

And then there is what they did to EQ, EQ2 and planetside on different occasions that were also very bad for their player bases, respectively. I need not document them here.

Tack onto that the terrible customer service they have always had, their participation now in item/gold selling for their own games, which most players do NOT want. Their reputation is so deservedly bad, that they can't even put their name on things they distribute anymore, they have spun that business entitiy off as "Platform Publishing" and not $OE.

Someone in another thread put it very well when they said they are tired of "Eating out of the dogbowl" when it comes to playing $OE games. They is EXACTLY how $OE views their customers and delivers content and game changes.

I will not give another dime to $OE, and if I were treated the way $OE treated most of us by another company providing a good or service, I would not do any more business with them either.

This is business, not personal (for me at least).

MasterPain55 · February 2008

Originally posted by summitus

I feel its time some regular people like myself should say a few things in defence of SOE,they are the focus of so much hatred and unwarranted accusations, and its just become riduclous and seems now to be a favorite sport on some forums ( especially this one ) to hurl unwarranted attacks on the company and even persomal individuals who work for SOE or even used to work for them, I personally think that the only culprit/s worthy of your hatred and critisism are possibly John Smedley and maybe Lucas Arts as after all the buck stops at them basically.
To carry on hating everyone and anything to do with SOE is downright Dark Ages behaviour, wishing bad things on people that work there or feeling good if they leave there jobs etc is appalling. People have to start thinking of the great things SOE do or have done in the past , the groundbreaking Everquest games to start with, I believe the EQ games are partly the inspiration for most of the games we play and love today, it is also a game they have supported and improved constantly over the years and still do today.
They also rescued Vanguard a game that was doomed to failure, now after about a year its picking up nicely and will soon be a very solid game with a decent dedicated user base.
They were the fist company to intoduce a Pass subscription so you can play and enjoy all there games even the contoversial SWG can now be played for just a few dollars/pounds/Euro's a month, I think the SOE station pass is one the most underated and best value for mone gaming products out there, I for cant count the countless hours of pleasure I've had dipping in and out of all the different games , and the list of games is growing now too with Potbs just recently being added.
They have also made available some cool free stuff which can be played for free such as LON and a new family oreintated Mmo thats coming soon.
Not to mention loads of other cool stuff they have such as Station Exchange and things in development such as the Agency.
Ok they made one mistake which we all know as SWG, a huge mistake in fact but they have apologized for and are trying to make ammends by improving the game as it is now, I played Pre CU/Nge and was'nt happy like a lot of people, but hey you know what ? the game is'nt that bad now if your willing to give a shot with an open mind.
Even aftrer writing all this yes I do think John Smedley is personally responsible for SWG, but to hate anybody and anything do with SOE is just downright sad and appalling. Should John Smedley resign ? .. maybe I dont know and certainly woud'nt like to judge. Should anybody hate SOE and anything related to it ? .. well its certainly no they should not . SOE even with John Smedley at its Helm is a huge part of the Mmo industry and gaming as a whole, they should as a company be appluaded for the massive contibutions they have made to the type of games we all love.
I do hope there are other people that feel the same way, and I feel SOE has so much more to offer us as gamers in the future and they just dont deserve all the Hate and unwarranted accusations that are hurled at them.
I know the haters will still flame this post especially SWG Vets but hey thats your perogative,does'nt make the hate right tho does it .

Actually it was found about a year ago that lucas arts was to be blamed for the destruction of swg. it was LucasArts that had the idea of completly revamping the game to have a more star warsy experience.

jinxit · February 2008

To the poster, creating a thread like this is like walking into a KKK convention and telling everyone you have a black jewish ancestry but i do see your point idle threats on people lives just because they pull a paycheck with the name sony on it is childish and disturbing.

altairzq · February 2008

$$$$$$$$$$OE sucks so much... I wish it disappears from the MMO industry one day. Well now it's pretty much fucosing on low quality games/niche games/kid games so it doesn't count like a few years ago, fortunately.

Gozzar · February 2008

summitus · February 2008

Originally posted by Burntvet

$OE and $med have EARNED every bit of their terrible reputation and it is NOT because of a single incident or a single business practice.
The mistake you so blithely dismiss as SWG, to which part are you referring? The NGE that destroyed the game/professions/time investment most people had? The expansion that promised all sorts of features and character enhancements only to have all the promised enhancements removed by the NGE right after the expansion was billed? The refusal to refund the remain portions of year long subscriptions after such a huge game change? The terrible, untested, bug-filled mess that was pushed to live servers over the vocal objections of players/testers? The terrible customer service? The top down business attitude that the customer is wrong, deserves no respect, and will play whatever they are given and should like it? The fact that SOE came out and said that they didn't care anything about their existing playerbase at the time of the NGE? Is that what you mean?
That should be easily forgotten/forgiven after a couple backhanded, half hearted apologies from $med and lackeys with no concrete corrective steps (classic servers) or any form of recompense (free play time to existing customers)? Talk is cheap, especially at $OE. They have NEVER made any concession to anyone that cost them money to do, aside from the much documented PR tour for a few of the SWG boycotters.
And then there is what they did to EQ, EQ2 and planetside on different occasions that were also very bad for their player bases, respectively. I need not document them here.
Tack onto that the terrible customer service they have always had, their participation now in item/gold selling for their own games, which most players do NOT want. Their reputation is so deservedly bad, that they can't even put their name on things they distribute anymore, they have spun that business entitiy off as "Platform Publishing" and not $OE.
Someone in another thread put it very well when they said they are tired of "Eating out of the dogbowl" when it comes to playing $OE games. They is EXACTLY how $OE views their customers and delivers content and game changes.
I will not give another dime to $OE, and if I were treated the way $OE treated most of us by another company providing a good or service, I would not do any more business with them either.
This is business, not personal (for me at least).

Your biased and are talking from a disgruntled SWG Vet point of view.

Deathstrike2 · February 2008

Originally posted by altairzq

$$$$$$$$$$OE sucks so much... I wish it disappears from the MMO industry one day. Well now it's pretty much fucosing on low quality games/niche games/kid games so it doesn't count like a few years ago, fortunately.

So just for clarity, what does the Agency fall under? Low quality, niche game, or kid game?

summitus · February 2008

Originally posted by jinxit

To the poster, creating a thread like this is like walking into a KKK convention and telling everyone you have a black jewish ancestry but i do see your point idle threats on people lives just because they pull a paycheck with the name sony on it is childish and disturbing.

Well at least you agree with the main point of my Post thx for that at least .

baff · February 2008

Originally posted by summitus

Your biased and are talking from a disgruntled SWG Vet point of view.

The trouble for SOE, is that so many of us are biased and disgruntled SOE vets.

Kazzer · February 2008

Originally posted by greenstumps

No it don't...

EQ is now trash Dont know, nerver tried it

EQ2 was trash when it launched and still is. I loved eq2, and would still do.

SWG is now trash and had the worst release ever. Dunno about the release, but was a good game until cu and nge

PS is now trash dunno, nerver tried it

Vanguard is trash sigil made a promising game, they ruined it.. but i hear SOE have saved it, well some of it

They feel the need to ruin all their games and release expansion after expansion without thinking just because they want quick cash. I wish they took the time and quality of say Blizzard I mean they don't release until it's ready.
Now they are making mmorpgs for the PS3/PC so you know they'll be dumbed down or badly ported to PC.

u just sound like a soe hater, and hate soe products, no matter if theyvare good or not

smg77 · February 2008

You should be able to see from the responses to your post that it's not time to stop the criticisms of SOE. They have simply burned too many people and done nothing to make up for it.

The station pass isn't a good deal--it's just a bunch of mediocre games that would have been shut down if they weren't part of the station pass life support system.

Firing Smed would be a good start but the problem at SOE is systemic. The biggest problem is that they have forgotten that they are in the entertainment industry and they view their customers as adversaries instead of values member. Of course they are a business and in it to make money but they have gone about it in such a greedy and underhanded way that it leaves a bad taste in everybody's mouth. The most recent example is the SOE/Live Gamer relationship--Smed has no problem whatsoever with RMT and its detrimental effect on in-game economies as long as he's getting a cut. Same thing with microtransactions...the vast majority of SOE's customers don't want microtransactions. They don't want to be nickel and dimed to death.

You can continue to defend them all you want but SOE's reputation is richly deserved. They have no one to blame but themselves.

norvak · February 2008

I see nothing good from SOE. While I dont hate them, I will try and stay clear of anything they touch.

vader999 · February 2008

Originally posted by summitus
Your biased and are talking from a disgruntled SWG Vet point of view.

So this thread is aimed at the legions of unbiased SoE haters who have never played an SoE game?

WharfRat · February 2008

SOE deserves every bit of hate they get.I havent tried a soe game since NGE and dont plan on tryin one anytime soon.

Mandarr · February 2008

Originally posted by summitus

Originally posted by Burntvet

$OE and $med have EARNED every bit of their terrible reputation and it is NOT because of a single incident or a single business practice.
The mistake you so blithely dismiss as SWG, to which part are you referring? The NGE that destroyed the game/professions/time investment most people had? The expansion that promised all sorts of features and character enhancements only to have all the promised enhancements removed by the NGE right after the expansion was billed? The refusal to refund the remain portions of year long subscriptions after such a huge game change? The terrible, untested, bug-filled mess that was pushed to live servers over the vocal objections of players/testers? The terrible customer service? The top down business attitude that the customer is wrong, deserves no respect, and will play whatever they are given and should like it? The fact that SOE came out and said that they didn't care anything about their existing playerbase at the time of the NGE? Is that what you mean?
That should be easily forgotten/forgiven after a couple backhanded, half hearted apologies from $med and lackeys with no concrete corrective steps (classic servers) or any form of recompense (free play time to existing customers)? Talk is cheap, especially at $OE. They have NEVER made any concession to anyone that cost them money to do, aside from the much documented PR tour for a few of the SWG boycotters.
And then there is what they did to EQ, EQ2 and planetside on different occasions that were also very bad for their player bases, respectively. I need not document them here.
Tack onto that the terrible customer service they have always had, their participation now in item/gold selling for their own games, which most players do NOT want. Their reputation is so deservedly bad, that they can't even put their name on things they distribute anymore, they have spun that business entitiy off as "Platform Publishing" and not $OE.
Someone in another thread put it very well when they said they are tired of "Eating out of the dogbowl" when it comes to playing $OE games. They is EXACTLY how $OE views their customers and delivers content and game changes.
I will not give another dime to $OE, and if I were treated the way $OE treated most of us by another company providing a good or service, I would not do any more business with them either.
This is business, not personal (for me at least).

Your biased and are talking from a disgruntled SWG Vet point of view.

So since Burntvet is a swg vet his oppinion on the topic you started isn't allowed? I'm a pre cu vet myself and although I may not trust SOE, that doesn't mean my oppinion shouldn't count anymore than yours does. Did you wake up today and feel like this is the day to try to make SOE look like a good company in everyone's eyes? You need to go back to bed dude.

I wouldn't say I'd never play another SOE game again someday, hell I'd even go back to SWG if they'd release a classic server and didn't have jedi as an option on it. But I still wouldn't trust them any. They ruined my mmorpg gaming about 3 years ago now and I haven't been able to find a decent mmorpg game since pre cu swg. I even mastered every profession there was in the game just to unlock a jedi that wasn't worth playing. Jedi should've never been put into the game. There were alot of things that SOE did that I didn't agree with. As for EQ, I never really played that game. I was playing UO instead at that time. But I did try the trial version for EQ2 and I didn't like the game. That's me though.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that just because we may be swg vets doesn't mean our oppinions on SOE don't matter anymore than your oppions in favor of SOE. If we aren't allowed in your eyes to be worthy of discussion here in this thread, based soley on our veteran status of swg. Then your posts shouldn't really matter either should they? Or are you special?

Kazzer · February 2008

Originally posted by WharfRat

SOE deserves every bit of hate they get.I havent tried a soe game since NGE and dont plan on tryin one anytime soon.

tbh, the only thing i dont liek with soe, is the way they treated us in swg.. i had no problems in eq2.. as much iw ant the hate to go away, and see a bright side in soe, i want swg to close down.. and see another sw come to life.. a fresh new start in the swg saga

Mitara · February 2008

Agency? Low quality and Niche game....

Mandarr · February 2008

Originally posted by Kazzer

Originally posted by WharfRat

SOE deserves every bit of hate they get.I havent tried a soe game since NGE and dont plan on tryin one anytime soon.

tbh, the only thing i dont liek with soe, is the way they treated us in swg.. i had no problems in eq2.. as much iw ant the hate to go away, and see a bright side in soe, i want swg to close down.. and see another sw come to life.. a fresh new start in the swg saga

While I'd go back and play again if they released classic servers, I'd still like another SW game to be released here soon. Be it from Bioware or another company other than SOE. I just can't get into the whole NGE bs they made.

Unknown · February 2008

My great uncle was a flying ace in World War II. He told me that his instructors always told him to keep laying fire on a target until it hit the ground, as that was the only certain way to kill.

That's exactly what we pissed off vets are doing to SWG and to SOE, we will keep laying into them until both are in the ground.

SOE is absolutely the most unethical and inept publisher in the industry, and John Smedley is the MMO player's worst enemy.

Fortunately Smed and SOE are their own worst enemy, not us. Their sheer incompetence will get the job of their destruction done.

Mitara · February 2008

Originally posted by greenstumps

Originally posted by summitus

Originally posted by Vrika

People will stop hating SOE when they feel that SOE makes good (or at least decent) games and doesn't try to rip them off.

But as it is, SOE has long record of releasing unfinished and bugged games (SWG, Vanguard, etc), and making so radical gameplay changes (like NGE) that people who once bought 1 game may end up having entirely diffirent game.

SOE also has a habit of publishing so many expansions, and trying to get players to buy extra monthly fee for things like character slots, station player services, etc. That playing one of their games costs easily much more than what the game's monthly fee is.

Of course there are always much haters on these forums who hate practically everything. But those who hate SOE have generally a viable reason for their hate.

THere is nothing wrong with most of SOE's games SWG being the exeption although there are still alot of people that play and enjoy SWG after all the changes. Nearly every single Mmo on the market has had some changes that " some" people dont like. Also SOE has I'm sure alot of people who are quite happy with their service, I have been a subscriber for years and have never had any real problems and when I have their customer service has always been prompt and polite. All games release expansions some more than others. You can purchase EQ 2 and all its Expansions now for about $40 so whats wrong with that ? And as I have said Station Pass incedibly good value for money.

As far as the hate is concerned it has spread like a Disease from a handful og disgruntled SWG vets to everyone else, so I suppose they are winning in twisted and appalling way, the problem is too many people these days like to hate and will jump on any hate bandwagon they can find.

Nothing wrong with their games? Right...........................

They ruined Planetside and everyone quit and they ruined SWG and everyone quit. Then they ruined EQ and refuse to put up classic servers and most people quit that game. Vanguard and EQ2 got released as complete crap and well they couldn't really get any worse so obviously these games are getting better but still they suck and arn't any fun. Theres a trend in all SOE's games of having a low population and people try to tell you that the servers are alive but you havn't seen alive until you played WOW or EVe seeing as it's only got the one. They release expansion after expansion and none of it is very good or to the quality that Blizzard do or even CCP.

Not to say SOE are the only company that make crap mmorpgs because 99% of them out there are crap and that's the problem with this genre. We need more blockbuster games like everyother genre has with it's Fight nights and gears of war and halo and half-life and team fortress 2 and i could go on.

What can you name for the mmorpg genre......... WOW.

Vanguard was not destroyed by SOE, it was poorly made and launched due to financial problems at Sigil. SOE saved the game and it is now better in every aspect compare to WoW (so people who play it say at least).

SOE didnt destroy SWG either, I also heard the rumor that this was actually Lucas Arts's work.

But SOE's do have incompetent leadership with no clue how to make money out of the very good situation they once had on the MMO market. IT fixed itself though, SOE is not that much into MMO's anymore and the world is happy for that.

jinxit · February 2008

Originally posted by Mitara

Originally posted by greenstumps

Originally posted by summitus

Originally posted by Vrika

People will stop hating SOE when they feel that SOE makes good (or at least decent) games and doesn't try to rip them off.

But as it is, SOE has long record of releasing unfinished and bugged games (SWG, Vanguard, etc), and making so radical gameplay changes (like NGE) that people who once bought 1 game may end up having entirely diffirent game.

SOE also has a habit of publishing so many expansions, and trying to get players to buy extra monthly fee for things like character slots, station player services, etc. That playing one of their games costs easily much more than what the game's monthly fee is.

Of course there are always much haters on these forums who hate practically everything. But those who hate SOE have generally a viable reason for their hate.

THere is nothing wrong with most of SOE's games SWG being the exeption although there are still alot of people that play and enjoy SWG after all the changes. Nearly every single Mmo on the market has had some changes that " some" people dont like. Also SOE has I'm sure alot of people who are quite happy with their service, I have been a subscriber for years and have never had any real problems and when I have their customer service has always been prompt and polite. All games release expansions some more than others. You can purchase EQ 2 and all its Expansions now for about $40 so whats wrong with that ? And as I have said Station Pass incedibly good value for money.

As far as the hate is concerned it has spread like a Disease from a handful og disgruntled SWG vets to everyone else, so I suppose they are winning in twisted and appalling way, the problem is too many people these days like to hate and will jump on any hate bandwagon they can find.

Nothing wrong with their games? Right...........................

They ruined Planetside and everyone quit and they ruined SWG and everyone quit. Then they ruined EQ and refuse to put up classic servers and most people quit that game. Vanguard and EQ2 got released as complete crap and well they couldn't really get any worse so obviously these games are getting better but still they suck and arn't any fun. Theres a trend in all SOE's games of having a low population and people try to tell you that the servers are alive but you havn't seen alive until you played WOW or EVe seeing as it's only got the one. They release expansion after expansion and none of it is very good or to the quality that Blizzard do or even CCP.

Not to say SOE are the only company that make crap mmorpgs because 99% of them out there are crap and that's the problem with this genre. We need more blockbuster games like everyother genre has with it's Fight nights and gears of war and halo and half-life and team fortress 2 and i could go on.

What can you name for the mmorpg genre......... WOW.

Vanguard was not destroyed by SOE, it was poorly made and launched due to financial problems at Sigil. SOE saved the game and it is now better in every aspect compare to WoW (so people who play it say at least).

SOE didnt destroy SWG either, I also heard the rumor that this was actually Lucas Arts's work.

But SOE's do have incompetent leadership with no clue how to make money out of the very good situation they once had on the MMO market. IT fixed itself though, SOE is not that much into MMO's anymore and the world is happy for that.

That is true lucasarts were the brain stormers behind the nge, they believed for the game to survive in the present market it had to change to become more like having a life in the more recent movies and starwars battle front was used as the combat template for that change, sony had no say in that matter lucasarts even brought in developers of there own to oversee the nge's design

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